**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 28 02:59:59 2016
Jan 28 09:24:39 <Sicelo> one other thing on my N900 that's likely related to the weird hwkbd behaviour is: the screen rotates even when keyboard is out
Jan 28 09:26:08 <Sicelo> but dmesg shows proper detection of slide in/out
Jan 28 09:29:15 <Sicelo> clearly if 'UI' doesn't notice keyboard being out, then I won't get symbol table, or spelling auto-complete when typing using hwkbd
Jan 28 09:33:23 <Sicelo> actually, vkbd pops up occassionally with keyboard slid out
Jan 28 09:34:54 <Sicelo> question: what communicates the state of keyboard to hildon* ?
Jan 28 09:35:05 <Sicelo> mce? dbus? or something else?
Jan 28 09:45:57 <Maxdamantus> Based on grepping random stuff, I'm guessing ke-recv communicates it over gconf using some /system/osso/af/keyboard-attached property and hildon_im_keyboard_monitor.so (presumably loaded in the HIM process) picks it up.
Jan 28 09:46:06 <Maxdamantus> but dunno how gconf works, too crazy for me.
Jan 28 09:47:01 <Maxdamantus> Looks like something called "hulda" is also involved.
Jan 28 09:47:21 <Maxdamantus> I'd try just killing hulda, ke-recv and hildon-input-manager.
Jan 28 09:48:02 <Sicelo> ok. let me try
Jan 28 09:53:21 <Maxdamantus>   * Removed GConf key /system/osso/af/keyboard-attached, it's now handled
Jan 28 09:53:22 <Maxdamantus>     by ke-recv-extra package.
Jan 28 09:53:42 <Maxdamantus> which indeed includes hulda.
Jan 28 10:00:58 <Sicelo> no different
Jan 28 10:03:35 <Sicelo> reinstalling it
Jan 28 10:04:25 <Sicelo> no difference reinstalling ke-recv-extra either.
Jan 28 10:04:54 <Sicelo> what's annoying is that i can't recall doing anything to change this. crazy
Jan 28 10:26:33 <Sicelo>  /system/osso/af/slide-open always indicates false on my device. (changes on the other N900)
Jan 28 10:31:14 <Maxdamantus> That's set by ke-recv.
Jan 28 10:33:29 <Maxdamantus> in response to .. hald-addon-omap-gpio from hald?
Jan 28 10:34:04 <Sicelo> the plot thickens :)
Jan 28 10:34:22 <Sicelo> Maxdamantus: where are you getting this info?
Jan 28 10:34:33 <Maxdamantus> Does /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_slide in the output of `lshal` look .. suspicious?
Jan 28 10:34:56 <Maxdamantus> Sicelo: grepping a backup of my system and the git repository of ke-recv.
Jan 28 10:35:39 * Maxdamantus wonders if it's okay to kill hald.
Jan 28 10:38:41 <Sicelo> output in lshal same for both N900. only difference is button.state.value is true on N900 with problem
Jan 28 10:39:39 <Maxdamantus> Can you see hald-addon-omap-gpio in `ps aux | grep hald-addon`?
Jan 28 10:40:03 <Maxdamantus> If I kill that process, it doesn't come back and my /slide-open value is stuck on false too.
Jan 28 10:40:54 <Sicelo> i have hald-addon-gpio
Jan 28 10:41:04 <Sicelo> not omap-gpio
Jan 28 10:42:03 <Maxdamantus> Ah, yeah, that.
Jan 28 10:42:12 <Maxdamantus>   916 haldaemo  3652 S    {hald-addon-omap} hald-addon-gpio: listening on /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/slide/state /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/sleep_ind/state /sys/devic
Jan 28 10:45:23 <Maxdamantus> the answer to whether it's okay to kill hald is: no.
Jan 28 10:45:30 <Sicelo> :)
Jan 28 10:45:34 <Sicelo> causes a reboot?
Jan 28 10:45:35 <KotCzarny> :>
Jan 28 10:45:37 <Maxdamantus> Yes.
Jan 28 10:45:57 <Sicelo> i'm trying to avoid restarting, lol
Jan 28 10:45:58 <Maxdamantus> Actually, I sent it a USR1 just in case it did something special with that.
Jan 28 10:46:20 <Sicelo> i'll rather remain with problem for a while until other causes reboot it 
Jan 28 10:48:21 <Sicelo>  /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/slide/state properly detects open/closed
Jan 28 10:48:22 <KotCzarny> sicelo, your poor n900 seems to be in bad shape, mine only reboots when battery dries out
Jan 28 10:48:51 <KotCzarny> maybe you should consider reflash? and documenting all tweaks you do on the way?
Jan 28 10:49:12 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: slide open/close is logged to syslog. See what you got there and particularly if it suddenly stalls and what else happened around there 
Jan 28 10:49:28 <Sicelo> no reflash. what makes you tnik it's bad shape KotCzarny? :)
Jan 28 10:49:29 <DocScrutinizer05> assuming you use syslog
Jan 28 10:49:44 <Sicelo> KotCzarny: i have bad battery. that's what reboots it too
Jan 28 10:50:19 <Sicelo> DocScrutinizer05: syslog reports no issues
Jan 28 10:50:31 <KotCzarny> sicelo: things that stop working arent a sign of healthy os ;)
Jan 28 10:50:48 <KotCzarny> do you watch swap usage?
Jan 28 10:50:54 <Sicelo> well i'm not reflashing or rebooting anytime soon
Jan 28 10:50:59 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, this was too fast, not even I would have been able to 
Jan 28 10:51:02 <Sicelo> swap is ok.
Jan 28 10:51:42 <DocScrutinizer05> does your syslog still report slide events?
Jan 28 10:52:17 <Sicelo> yes. slide appears fine
Jan 28 10:52:23 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, ok
Jan 28 10:52:27 <Sicelo> Jan 28 12:50:07 fremantle kernel: [93737.584655] slide (GPIO 71) is now closed
Jan 28 10:52:30 <DocScrutinizer05> red herring then
Jan 28 10:52:30 <Maxdamantus> syslog probably just logs it from the kernel.
Jan 28 10:52:50 <Maxdamantus> Yeah.
Jan 28 10:53:12 <Maxdamantus> (you can also see those messages with `dmesg`)
Jan 28 10:53:17 <Sicelo> yes
Jan 28 10:53:22 <Sicelo> that's where i checked 1st
Jan 28 10:53:24 <Maxdamantus> or maybe `cat /dev/kmsg`)
Jan 28 10:53:48 <Maxdamantus> maybe not that .. EINVAL for me.
Jan 28 10:55:38 <KotCzarny> dbus monitor?
Jan 28 10:55:58 <KotCzarny> open/close on healthy device, open/close on yours, compare?
Jan 28 10:56:04 <Sicelo> didnt' have anything interesting when i looked yesterday (dbus-monitor)
Jan 28 10:56:19 <KotCzarny> but i mean comparing to working device
Jan 28 11:01:00 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: for forensic purposes, do a ps aux>ps-before.txt
Jan 28 11:03:30 <Sicelo> done
Jan 28 11:04:07 <DocScrutinizer05> after next boot do ps aux > ps-after.txt
Jan 28 11:04:12 <Sicelo> there's no dbus signal for slide event on this N900
Jan 28 11:04:22 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah
Jan 28 11:04:29 <DocScrutinizer05> thought as much
Jan 28 11:05:22 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds like hald, no?
Jan 28 11:07:04 <DocScrutinizer05> dammit, new router, IP of IroN900 changed, no ssh
Jan 28 11:11:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ftiggin fritzbox! how do I define a specific IP address for a MAC? I have "always assign this IP to this device" checkmark but I can't edit the IP
Jan 28 11:11:49 <Sicelo> it will reserve the current ip
Jan 28 11:12:31 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Jan 28 11:12:50 <DocScrutinizer05> I want a different specific IP assigned to my device
Jan 28 11:13:02 <Maxdamantus> dhcpcd -r ‹addr› wlan0
Jan 28 11:13:23 <Maxdamantus> Then see if it gives you that address, and try to set it then.
Jan 28 11:13:54 <Sicelo> udhcpc should have that i believe
Jan 28 11:14:26 <Sicelo> so for my issue... looks like reboot incoming?
Jan 28 11:17:33 <DocScrutinizer05> how would I do some udhcpc when there's no telnet or ssh?
Jan 28 11:18:09 <KotCzarny> someone tell him about reverse ssh
Jan 28 11:18:29 <DocScrutinizer05> I tricked it by limiting dhcp range so it picked the right IP on re-login, but hey that SUCKS
Jan 28 11:19:07 <KotCzarny> and that he should set ip on n900 to fixed value with ifconfig, then reserve it on router
Jan 28 11:20:54 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2016/01/28/plasma-desktopwk3616.png
Jan 28 11:21:32 <Sicelo> meant udhcpc on N900.. that's how N900 requests ip address info from any dhcp server
Jan 28 11:22:02 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah yep, that would've been my next approach: use fixed IP on device
Jan 28 11:26:39 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/67399794
Jan 28 11:29:34 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/45229752
Jan 28 11:34:01 <DocScrutinizer05> and FWIW http://paste.opensuse.org/19453129
Jan 28 11:34:46 <Maxdamantus> egrep '/dev/input/event[0-3]'
Jan 28 11:35:07 <kerio> i wish i had a fritzbox
Jan 28 11:35:10 <kerio> :c
Jan 28 11:43:03 <DocScrutinizer05> rather fritzbox than fritzchip
Jan 28 11:43:09 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Jan 28 11:45:28 <kerio> the only viable replacement for my ISP-provided router is a 200€ fritzbox
Jan 28 11:45:38 <kerio> but, yknow
Jan 28 11:45:39 <kerio> it's 200€
Jan 28 11:46:27 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, the 7490 is 199 bucks, but hey it comes with a number of feature
Jan 28 11:47:00 <kerio> alternatively i could keep using the ISP-provided router and chain my own router behind it
Jan 28 11:47:10 <kerio> it supports pppoe bridging
Jan 28 11:47:21 <kerio> but it's already so huge :|
Jan 28 11:47:49 <DocScrutinizer05> I attached a 5TB vfat hdd to mine for all media shit, even N900 mediaplayer shows them now and plays them like a charm. also DECT/VoIP/ISDN/POTS/TAM
Jan 28 11:49:36 <DocScrutinizer05> VPN
Jan 28 11:50:01 <DocScrutinizer05> of course WLAN with all bells and whistles
Jan 28 11:50:22 <DocScrutinizer05> and basically linux
Jan 28 11:50:44 <DocScrutinizer05> though no telnet or ssh anymore, GRRRR >:-(
Jan 28 11:51:31 <DocScrutinizer05> sunno, maybe I need to flash freetz zo it
Jan 28 11:51:42 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno even
Jan 28 11:58:12 <kerio> yea i need a VDSL modem
Jan 28 11:58:28 <kerio> but apparently the one in the fritzbox is slightly more susceptible to line noise than the one i already have
Jan 28 11:59:24 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, no idea. I wish I had VDSL ;-)
Jan 28 12:00:35 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway I run the fritzbox as bridged router, since the 'modem' is a fritzbox in my neighbor's office
Jan 28 12:01:00 <kerio> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5014013682
Jan 28 12:01:09 <DocScrutinizer05> IOW I don't have _any_ *DSL
Jan 28 12:03:58 <DocScrutinizer05> http://beta.speedtest.net/result/5036255230
Jan 28 12:08:10 <Sicelo> finally rebooted anyway. hwkbd working fine
Jan 28 12:09:48 <Sicelo> thanks for the interesting info Maxdamantus :)
Jan 28 12:16:20 <Maxdamantus> np
Jan 28 12:21:10 <DocScrutinizer05> (fritzbox) http://192.168.4.1/html/capture.html  http://wstaw.org/m/2016/01/28/plasma-desktopHX3616.png
Jan 28 12:21:32 <DocScrutinizer05> damn nice for a router
Jan 28 12:23:17 <DocScrutinizer05> more complete: http://wstaw.org/m/2016/01/28/plasma-desktopwx3616.png
Jan 28 12:23:19 <Wizzup> Feature wise for sure
Jan 28 12:24:02 <DocScrutinizer05> guest WLAN
Jan 28 12:24:26 <DocScrutinizer05> not for me though, works only in genuine modem mode
Jan 28 12:25:20 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I wouldn't want to expose my neighbor's LAN to a guest WLAN, even if my own subnet was separated
Jan 28 12:46:19 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: any notable diffs between ps-before.txt and ps-after.txt ?
Jan 28 12:50:55 <Sicelo> bad - http://paste.debian.net/374492/
Jan 28 12:50:58 <DocScrutinizer05> sort -k 11
Jan 28 12:51:29 <Sicelo> good - http://paste.debian.net/374493/
Jan 28 12:51:33 <DocScrutinizer05> also that's no diff
Jan 28 12:51:33 <Sicelo> hmm
Jan 28 13:06:55 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/67038317
Jan 28 13:07:36 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2016/01/28/plasma-desktopqm3616.png
Jan 28 13:10:18 <DocScrutinizer05> the only faintly interesting thing: http://wstaw.org/m/2016/01/28/plasma-desktopXT3616.png
Jan 28 13:11:58 <DocScrutinizer05> cat ~/tmp/sicelobad | cut -c 26-90|sort >~/tmp/sicsortbad
Jan 28 13:14:41 <Sicelo> the highlighted stuff? green & pink?
Jan 28 13:16:01 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2016/01/28/plasma-desktopMj3616.png and http://wstaw.org/m/2016/01/28/plasma-desktophM3616.png don't look exciting
Jan 28 13:16:41 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: actually nothing of all that looks like kbd-related
Jan 28 13:16:56 <DocScrutinizer05> the red one looks a bit fishy but still unrelated
Jan 28 13:17:35 <DocScrutinizer05> a pity you got braindead crioppled messybox-ps
Jan 28 13:18:03 <Sicelo> i don't see how those would be responsible. just more likely one of dbus/hald or something else cashed at some point. maybe syslog would have show it if i had been quicker to follow up on the issue.
Jan 28 13:18:08 <DocScrutinizer05> though maybe here it's irrelevant
Jan 28 13:18:28 <Sicelo> as it was, it had been some days already, and i've got log rotation set up.
Jan 28 13:18:40 <DocScrutinizer05> ouch :-)
Jan 28 13:21:33 <Sicelo> Vajb: ended up rebooting to fix my hwkbd. working fine now.
Jan 28 13:21:34 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway I strongly recommend installing procps
Jan 28 13:21:53 <bencoh> +1
Jan 28 13:22:24 <DocScrutinizer05> messybox is useless, even the powa
Jan 28 13:22:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ~messybox
Jan 28 13:22:40 <infobot> messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
Jan 28 13:22:43 <Sicelo> will do
Jan 28 13:23:36 <Sicelo> but would that really have helped in this one? i doubt, but i agree it's good for other troubleshooting
Jan 28 13:23:42 <DocScrutinizer05> no
Jan 28 13:24:01 <Sicelo> The following packages will be REMOVED: busybox-symlinks-procps mp-fremantle-community-pr
Jan 28 13:24:19 <DocScrutinizer05> it however would have cost me a 15 minutes less to figure why my approach didn't work for your ps lists
Jan 28 13:24:36 <DocScrutinizer05> STILL??
Jan 28 13:24:41 <DocScrutinizer05> FFS!!
Jan 28 13:25:12 <DocScrutinizer05> somebody told me mp-fremantle-community-pr dependency got fixed meanwhile
Jan 28 13:25:53 <Vajb> Sicelo: do ou feel like using windows phone? haha
Jan 28 13:25:59 <Vajb> you*
Jan 28 13:26:32 <Sicelo> no. my N900 is all things and more to me :)
Jan 28 13:26:42 <Sicelo> everything else doesn't matter
Jan 28 13:26:59 <Vajb> hehe
Jan 28 13:27:19 <KotCzarny> will it blend though?
Jan 28 13:27:25 <Vajb> im so happy with my idea with panucci. I just wonder why i didn't think of it sooner.
Jan 28 13:27:28 <DocScrutinizer05> GRRR! pastebin shit
Jan 28 13:27:35 <bencoh> panucci?
Jan 28 13:28:33 <Sicelo> audiobook program
Jan 28 13:28:57 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/92642697
Jan 28 13:29:37 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: ^^^
Jan 28 13:31:12 <DocScrutinizer05> procps:  *** 1:3.2.7-11maemo1+0m5 0         500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages
Jan 28 13:32:21 <Sicelo> it's offering me same one
Jan 28 13:32:45 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc why I still (again?) have mp-fremantle-community-pr then
Jan 28 13:33:06 <KotCzarny> sicelo, which cssu do you have?
Jan 28 13:33:52 <Sicelo> *** 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo11+thumb0
Jan 28 13:34:06 <Sicelo> that's my mp-fremantle-community-pr
Jan 28 13:34:08 <Sicelo> thumb
Jan 28 13:57:54 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, prolly has this problem not fixed then
Jan 28 14:01:33 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm no, my community-pr also has it:  http://paste.opensuse.org/51829869
Jan 28 14:02:52 <DocScrutinizer05> so maybe my procps doesn't mess with symlinks on a busybox-symlinks-procps level, but rather fixes them with some postinst script or sth?
Jan 28 14:03:29 <DocScrutinizer05> s/level/dpkg dependency level/
Jan 28 14:03:29 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: so maybe my procps doesn't mess with symlinks on a busybox-symlinks-procps dpkg dependency level, but rather fixes them with some postinst script or sth?
Jan 28 14:04:31 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, nfc
Jan 28 14:04:42 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# ll /bin/ps
Jan 28 14:04:44 <DocScrutinizer05> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 97868 2009-11-16 16:02 /bin/ps
Jan 28 14:05:17 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: ^^^ ?
Jan 28 15:32:44 <fishbulb> hey is yappari broken again?
Jan 28 15:34:57 <kerio> openssl security advisory
Jan 28 15:34:59 <kerio> Support for versions 0.9.8 and 1.0.0 ended on 31st December 2015. Those versions
Jan 28 15:34:59 <kerio> are no longer receiving security updates.
Jan 28 15:35:22 <kerio> are we going to do something about that?
Jan 28 15:36:09 <fishbulb> who is we and what are you talking about
Jan 28 15:37:40 <kerio> we as in maemo
Jan 28 15:37:48 <kerio> fremantle is still running openssl 0.9.8
Jan 28 15:38:22 <merlin1991> kerio: there are some threads on tmo regarding moving to the 1.x series
Jan 28 15:38:33 <fishbulb> secure socket layer
Jan 28 15:38:41 <fishbulb> who needs that
Jan 28 15:43:28 <fishbulb> I need emoticons and whatsapp
Jan 28 15:43:31 <fishbulb> oh it's working again.
Jan 28 15:46:28 <kerio> you're welcome
Jan 28 15:49:27 <fishbulb> for?
Jan 28 15:49:40 <fishbulb> hey is this thing running python on my phone becuase it TEARS through battery
Jan 28 15:49:51 <fishbulb> are you one of the yappari guys?
Jan 28 15:51:05 <kerio> no
Jan 28 15:51:07 <kerio> it was a joke
Jan 28 15:51:18 <kerio> i doubt the python is doing that
Jan 28 15:51:32 <kerio> umts data transfer chews through battery
Jan 28 18:05:02 <freemangordon> Pali: ping
Jan 28 18:57:12 <freemangordon> Pali: ping
Jan 28 19:33:04 <ceene> fishbulb: yappari doesn't use python, it's written on c++ Qt
Jan 28 19:34:40 <ceene> also, yappari hasn't got any busy waiting, it's event driven, so the battery issue is probably just due to you being 3g connected all the time
Jan 28 19:35:02 <ceene> batteries also end up dying, so maybe yours is simply too old now
Jan 28 19:35:31 <ceene> every patch to solve any issue you're experiencing is always welcome, though :)
Jan 28 19:41:57 <DocScrutinizer05> guesswork ;-)  For CPU load there is htop (among others), for activity monitoring there's zzztop, and for battery there's bq27k-detail2.sh
Jan 28 19:42:21 <DocScrutinizer05> and bq27200.sh
Jan 28 19:43:35 <DocScrutinizer05> 3g "connected" isn't the problem. Actually data transfer (incl simple pings) in any direction is, though
Jan 28 19:44:42 <kerio> fwiw the last time i tried yappari it was doing all the right things regarding battery consumption
Jan 28 19:44:54 <DocScrutinizer05> worst thing to happen: your cellular provider doesn't NAT you to avoid inbound pings and other connection attempts
Jan 28 19:45:17 <kerio> worst thing to happen: cancer
Jan 28 19:45:40 <kerio> not being firewalled at the provider side is also pretty bad tho
Jan 28 19:46:18 <ceene> i use powertop to check what happens on the background and yappari isn't a big offender, nor a small one even
Jan 28 19:46:31 <DocScrutinizer05> good
Jan 28 19:46:33 <ceene> although it's true that WA servers send a ping from time to time
Jan 28 19:46:59 <kerio> does yappari still get me banned from the service
Jan 28 19:47:01 <ceene> i mean, having it running is of course gonna use more battery than not having it
Jan 28 19:47:14 <ceene> kerio: only if you create a group
Jan 28 19:51:17 <fishbulb> hello
Jan 28 19:51:49 <fishbulb> it does work, I talk to one person at a time
Jan 28 19:52:00 <fishbulb> but something is HOSING the battery
Jan 28 19:52:07 <Sicelo> powertop
Jan 28 19:52:08 <Sicelo> or 
Jan 28 19:52:12 <Sicelo> ~zzztop
Jan 28 19:52:12 <infobot> hmm... zzztop is - the better and even FOSS powertop - http://wiki.maemo.org/Zzztop
Jan 28 19:52:22 <fishbulb> but does that give times?
Jan 28 19:52:37 <ceene> ain't that a music group? :)
Jan 28 19:52:48 <fishbulb> honestly I should look at the battery graph and correlate it to powertop
Jan 28 19:52:58 <fishbulb> like when the screen is on, what the modem is doing
Jan 28 19:53:01 <Sicelo> ceene: ;)
Jan 28 19:53:08 <Sicelo> i think this has one more Z
Jan 28 19:53:09 <fishbulb> zz top
Jan 28 19:53:35 <fishbulb> is there a good weather app that still works?
Jan 28 19:54:07 <Sicelo> i'd say there are many? foreca works for me
Jan 28 19:54:29 <fishbulb> what are the other ones?
Jan 28 19:54:49 <fishbulb> how do I check my phone for a rootkit too.
Jan 28 19:54:58 <Sicelo> dunno, but why would they not work? omweather? 
Jan 28 19:55:24 <fishbulb> I've tried them on and off and they all had problems with the international date line
Jan 28 19:55:34 <fishbulb> I'm in australia
Jan 28 19:55:58 <fishbulb> so unless someone did more work between like a year ago and now
Jan 28 19:57:11 <Sicelo> hmm, international date line?
Jan 28 19:57:29 <fishbulb> yeah it always shows yesterday
Jan 28 19:57:36 <fishbulb> or the wrong day. 
Jan 28 19:57:51 <fishbulb> I'm from the future. ok ther's qtweather 0.0.4
Jan 28 19:58:08 <fishbulb> I mean qtweather+ zero.zero.4
Jan 28 19:58:21 <fishbulb> um. is that a stable release
Jan 28 20:05:45 <fishbulb> omweather shows tomorrow actually
Jan 28 20:06:05 <fishbulb> that's literlaly the future, it's having more than trouble with the date line
Jan 28 20:06:13 <fishbulb> nobody is in that time zone.
Jan 28 20:06:45 <Sicelo> australia? let me look
Jan 28 20:07:04 <fishbulb> try sydney or melbourne
Jan 28 20:07:05 <Sicelo> fishbulb: what about the related website? what does it show?
Jan 28 20:07:17 <fishbulb> um. on the phone?
Jan 28 20:09:09 <fishbulb> where is this related website
Jan 28 20:09:19 <fishbulb> also omweather is from 2006
Jan 28 20:10:10 <fishbulb> if I can't find the related website by clicking all the buttons I'll uninstall this again
Jan 28 20:16:52 <Sicelo> foreca.com for example (in the case of Foreca Weather)
Jan 28 20:30:19 <fishbulb> foreca shows the right one
Jan 28 20:30:33 <fishbulb> man. this phone is slow. a cheap tablet is faster
Jan 28 20:30:47 <fishbulb> this is like an abusive relationship
Jan 28 20:31:13 <fishbulb> why can't I let this thing go?
Jan 28 20:33:44 <freemangordon> Pali: ping
Jan 28 20:34:11 <fishbulb> what is the smallest computer with a keyboard
Jan 28 20:34:30 <fishbulb> I remember when netbooks were cool sony had one that was tiny
Jan 28 20:34:36 <KotCzarny> depends what you consider keyboard
Jan 28 20:34:39 <fishbulb> I sitll have all my netbooks. they're useful.
Jan 28 20:34:50 <KotCzarny> n5510 had a keyboard
Jan 28 20:34:55 <fishbulb> everyone here obviously considers this thing a keyboard. it's tiny but it works
Jan 28 20:35:05 <fishbulb> I mean x86 or something
Jan 28 20:35:22 <fishbulb> maybe not that but something that's chunkier than this phone. and faster.
Jan 28 20:35:34 <fishbulb> this thing doesn't fit in my pocket anyway.
Jan 28 20:37:09 <KotCzarny> there are computers that fit in the keyboard
Jan 28 20:38:16 <KotCzarny> im in love with my banana
Jan 28 20:53:00 <brolin_empey> fishbulb: Have you considered the BlackBerry Priv?  Reportedly, the end user of the Priv cannot have superuser access, which is probably a deal breaker for me.
Jan 28 20:53:32 <fishbulb> I'm looking at some blackberry that runs android
Jan 28 20:53:47 <fishbulb> I don't MIND android. cyanogenmod is good
Jan 28 20:54:13 <fishbulb> you have to have root acces but I have to consider this as a dumb phone
Jan 28 20:54:36 <fishbulb> tiny resistive screen, there's whatsapp texts and calls. and nothing else
Jan 28 20:55:04 <brolin_empey> I prefer the integrated hardware keyboard of the Nokia C6-00 over the integrated hardware keyboard of the Nokia N900.
Jan 28 20:55:05 <fishbulb> most stupid apps are just mobile wrappers and there is a browser but sometimes I notice that my life is ending before my eyes while I wait for something to load
Jan 28 20:56:03 <fishbulb> symbian? did nokia go insane
Jan 28 20:56:16 <fishbulb> that was a cool os back in the early 2000's
Jan 28 20:56:24 <fishbulb> but for a 2010 phone
Jan 28 20:56:50 <fishbulb> ok so the answer is still "nothing better than n900"
Jan 28 21:01:55 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: The model of 30-GB Kingston mSATA card I use cost 45 CAD from Synnex in Canada in year 2015. The model of KingSpec 32-GB 2.5-inch PATA SSD I use costs around 40 USD including shipping to Canada from an eBay seller in one of the two Chinas. Which model of PATA↔mSATA converter do you use and what is the price of it?
Jan 28 21:03:21 <brolin_empey> fishbulb: Will you consider using the BlackBerry 10 OS?  Then you can have an integrated hardware keyboard.
Jan 28 21:03:57 <fishbulb> that blackberry priv looks alright
Jan 28 21:04:11 <fishbulb> a new phone is not in the budget
Jan 28 21:04:17 <fishbulb> the budget for living
Jan 28 21:05:09 <brolin_empey> fishbulb: The BlackBerry Priv runs the Android OS, not any version of the BlackBerry OS (including BlackBerry 10).
Jan 28 21:05:48 <fishbulb> it's 600+ dollars
Jan 28 21:05:54 <brolin_empey> fishbulb: BlackBerry 10 is based on QNX, which uses a microkernel as opposed to a monolithic kernel such as Linux.
Jan 28 21:05:57 <fishbulb> I have 2 n900's left
Jan 28 21:06:50 <brolin_empey> QNX is also a real-time OS, unlike Linux.
Jan 28 21:19:39 <fishbulb> linux isn't realtime?
Jan 28 21:19:52 <fishbulb> what are you talking about
Jan 28 21:24:08 <ceene> linux isn't a real time OS, although there are patches and things 
Jan 28 21:26:58 <fishbulb> I don't really understand
Jan 28 21:27:20 <fishbulb> for example the difference between arduino
Jan 28 21:28:37 <fishbulb> and pressing enter, and raspi, is the "real time operating system" which is linux
Jan 28 21:28:50 <fishbulb> instead of running just one set of commands over and over and over
Jan 28 21:29:24 <ceene> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_computing
Jan 28 21:29:49 <ceene> again, linux is not a real time os
Jan 28 21:33:27 <fishbulb> is windows then
Jan 28 21:33:47 <fishbulb> maybe this is a level above the most common useage of the two things
Jan 28 21:33:52 <fishbulb> like, a game cartridge
Jan 28 21:34:02 <fishbulb> or a computer that can do things.
Jan 28 21:34:25 <ceene> i don't understand what you're saying
Jan 28 21:36:33 <Sicelo> maybe he will understand if you illustrate with N900 .. has it ever happened that phone rings (N900) and it's not possible to answer the call as N900 is busy roating the screen or displaying the buttons? Likely it has. That behaviour is not acceptable on an RTOS
Jan 28 21:36:46 <fishbulb> ok right.
Jan 28 21:36:50 <fishbulb> hahaha.
Jan 28 21:37:48 <fishbulb> I feel like that was explained with bananas. so raspberry pi vs arduino? rpi is supposed to be a realtime os
Jan 28 21:38:19 <Sicelo> hardware :)
Jan 28 21:39:35 <ceene> rpi is hardware, arduino is hardware, the software that runs on both of them can either be RT or not
Jan 28 22:05:14 <Maxdamantus> The screen rotation thing has happened to me multiple times.
Jan 28 22:05:42 <Maxdamantus> Though that's a CSSU thing that I disabled after it happened a few times.
Jan 28 22:07:38 <fishbulb> ok I put mypaint into fullscreen and it won't go out of fullscreen
Jan 28 22:08:06 <fishbulb> wouldn't it be great to know 100% of the functions of all the things you own
Jan 28 22:08:41 <fishbulb> is there a keyboard shortcut for getting stuff out of fullscreen
Jan 28 22:12:53 <ceene> ctrl-backspace
Jan 28 22:13:25 <fishbulb> that brings it into the open windows
Jan 28 22:13:34 <fishbulb> mypaint is still fullscreen with no menu functions
Jan 28 22:14:56 <fishbulb> f11
Jan 28 22:14:59 <fishbulb> where is this
Jan 28 22:18:55 <brolin_empey> fishbulb: BlackBerry 10 can run Android OS applications.  What do you think of the new BlackBerry Classic AKA the BlackBerry Q20 (the successor to the BlackBerry Q10)?
Jan 28 22:19:20 <fishbulb> I don't know because I don't look at new phones
Jan 28 22:19:33 <fishbulb> that would require 700 spare dollars
Jan 28 22:20:36 <brolin_empey> fishbulb: The price of the BlackBerry Classic is (much) lower than the price of the BlackBerry Priv.
Jan 28 22:23:46 <brolin_empey> fishbulb: You can also consider the Nokia N950 if you can acquire one.
Jan 28 22:24:20 <fishbulb> a faster and better n900?
Jan 28 22:26:46 <fishbulb> shift+F
Jan 28 22:26:51 <fishbulb> this isn't really working
Jan 28 23:42:20 <jonwil> hi
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