**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 20 02:59:58 2016
Mar 20 07:23:05 <KotCzarny> oksana: fremantle already includes wildmidi (ie. midi playback), which is 1/ easier on resources, 2/ still supported
Mar 20 07:46:36 <sixwheeledbeast> Oksana: you request has to be accepted by admin
Mar 20 08:13:34 <bencoh> Oksana: what do you want to change in mstardict?
Mar 20 08:14:10 <bencoh> (I have an issue with mstardict and RTL languages but never took the time to patch it)
Mar 20 08:28:03 <sixwheeledbeast> you can upload to devel anyway without being a maintainer. 
Mar 20 10:11:08 <DocScrutinizer05> not recommended
Mar 20 10:11:57 <DocScrutinizer05> council should be able to grant admin/developer status in any arbitrary garage project
Mar 20 10:14:04 <DocScrutinizer05> one of the many council tasks nobody seems to even know about, and that never will fly with a "maemo eV" of dozens or even hundreds of members in charge of deciding and actually doing such stuff
Mar 20 10:15:33 <DocScrutinizer05> those who argued "why do we need council? we got maemo eV" evidently have no faintest clue
Mar 20 10:25:03 <DocScrutinizer05> the >>you can upload to devel anyway<< actually is an infra flaw, since it was too complicated to limit upload to the garage project related files only
Mar 20 10:27:13 <DocScrutinizer05> you only can apply for upload to extras-devel with a garage project anyway, and you're *supposed* to not abuse those upload rights for other projects owned by others. Particularly since the licensing of your files to upload are explained inside the garage project application and your upload rights to extras-devel are decided based on that licensing and project description
Mar 20 10:28:46 <DocScrutinizer05> at least that was the original idea
Mar 20 10:35:18 <DocScrutinizer05> well, actually seems I'm wrong, you technically can also apply for upload permission to extras-devel without owning (or being member of) a garage project. But then in upload permission application you can't refer to the garage project but need to do all the declaration stuff what exactly you want to upload in the application. And this again defines and limits what you're supposed to use your upload permission for
Mar 20 10:37:12 <DocScrutinizer05> uploading arbitrary stuff you didn't apply (and got permission) for is pretty much abusive
Mar 20 10:39:08 <DocScrutinizer05> in the past councils were very liberal with enforcing this rule, but that doesn't mean we should deliberately suggest ignoring it
Mar 20 10:43:25 <DocScrutinizer05> the correct procedure is: when you want to upload something new, let council and community know about it several days ahead of time, and allow council and staff to veto. When you want to contribute to an existing project, become meber of the group either by approval from project admins or by requesting to take over the project administration when the former admins are not responsive
Mar 20 10:46:08 <DocScrutinizer05> project admistration takeover should get granted liberally by garage admin resp council, since they don't do much damage with doing so. If former project admin (which stays in charge until new admin kicks him from project) has any objections with the newly added co-admin, everything can get rolled back without problem
Mar 20 10:47:35 <DocScrutinizer05> servicing http://maemo.org/packages/maintainer/pending/ is one of the regular tasks of council, unless they delegate to some admin
Mar 20 10:50:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I've seen requests lingering on for months there, should get serviced at least once per week
Mar 20 10:53:57 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2016/03/20/plasma-desktopks2219.png
Mar 20 10:55:01 <DocScrutinizer05> and could somebody please remove the friggin red [BETA] right side of "MAEMO.org"
Mar 20 11:00:50 <sixwheeledbeast> I would argue you could upload to devel and therefore inspect the package for promotion. But yes maintainer request page seems to have been forgotten about., I was looking after that during migration but it is a CC/sysop task.
Mar 20 11:05:03 <sixwheeledbeast> You are correct tho it was designed back it the day when a garage page was the way to go. Times change people prefer git pages etc etc
Mar 20 11:09:48 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, of course
Mar 20 11:11:17 <DocScrutinizer05> and even back then garage and autobuilder/repos were to segregate systems technically (one midgard, I forgot the name of the other forming garage), so merging the two was not exactly simlple
Mar 20 11:12:21 <DocScrutinizer05> I _think_ garage even supports git ?
Mar 20 11:12:42 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway...
Mar 20 11:13:18 <DocScrutinizer05> Oksana: please hit "take over meintainership" button and push council members to approve at http://maemo.org/packages/maintainer/pending/
Mar 20 11:18:02 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, Pali is (one of) maintainer at http://maemo.org/packages/view/mstardict/ - so you don't need to "Request to be maintainer of this package"
Mar 20 11:18:24 <DocScrutinizer05> it's strictly only about the garage project then
Mar 20 11:20:32 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: (git)  git clone https://vcs.maemo.org/git/mstardict
Mar 20 11:21:05 <DocScrutinizer05> I see Pali is developer on https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=1357
Mar 20 11:21:57 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: I'll switch you to admin role on mstardict
Mar 20 11:22:22 <DocScrutinizer05> done
Mar 20 11:23:20 <DocScrutinizer05> Oksana: contact Pali about getting membership status on mstardict, please
Mar 20 11:24:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, seems you are already
Mar 20 11:24:32 <DocScrutinizer05> err nope, pending requests
Mar 20 11:27:44 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: there are a few requests pennding to get serviced, incl your for admin (which I serviced now), on https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mstardict/
Mar 20 11:29:00 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: if you feel like getting admin by my discretion on mstardict is not the correct thing to do, you're free to drop own permissions
Mar 20 11:32:09 <DocScrutinizer05> @council: if you have any objections to Pali getting admin on https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mstardict/, please holler
Mar 20 11:32:39 <DocScrutinizer05> (or reset Pali's role on your own, you all automatically got permission for that)
Mar 20 11:34:59 <DocScrutinizer05> juiceme: ^^^
Mar 20 11:36:20 <DocScrutinizer05> Oksana: btw as ex-council you should be in the group "ex-council" in garage and have full access to https://garage.maemo.org/project/admin/?group_id=1357
Mar 20 11:36:50 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05: I will try contact roman as mstardict is his project
Mar 20 11:37:43 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: well, up to you to consider if he's dead or gone fitjii islands or is content with you helping with admin stuff on that project
Mar 20 11:38:38 <DocScrutinizer05> I see your request for admin status on mstardict was lingering too, like oksana's and some other pal
Mar 20 11:38:50 <Pali> ehm... roman could be in same city as me :-) so I can try to find him
Mar 20 11:38:58 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Mar 20 11:39:30 <Pali> but email should work too
Mar 20 11:39:33 <Pali> sent
Mar 20 11:40:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess adding Oksana as junior debvel so she can checkin her own git branch (or whatever you git guys do) is a good thing anyway, and won't do any harm
Mar 20 11:41:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm absolutely sure you will handle that correctly
Mar 20 11:43:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ohmy you guys failed to add council to garage group "council"?
Mar 20 11:48:05 <DocScrutinizer05> well, at least juiceme is admin of council group
Mar 20 11:48:51 <DocScrutinizer05> juiceme: the policy is to keep ex-council in garage council group
Mar 20 11:49:03 <DocScrutinizer05> usually, unless they ask for getting removed
Mar 20 11:51:54 <DocScrutinizer05> juiceme: usually parting council makes sure new council members are added to maemo-council garage group
Mar 20 11:53:59 <DocScrutinizer05> juiceme: https://garage.maemo.org/project/admin/?group_id=773
Mar 20 11:59:25 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: ^^^ could you please check if you can reach the page https://garage.maemo.org/project/admin/?group_id=1357
Mar 20 12:02:01 <sixwheeledbeast> denied, could have broken during migration?
Mar 20 12:02:22 <DocScrutinizer05> nope, you're just senior developer in maemo-council
Mar 20 12:02:37 <DocScrutinizer05> wait a minute
Mar 20 12:03:02 <DocScrutinizer05> please try again
Mar 20 12:03:56 <DocScrutinizer05> (you prolly need to relogin to garage)
Mar 20 12:04:48 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: ^^^
Mar 20 12:05:52 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: ok I did login
Mar 20 12:05:59 <DocScrutinizer05> on that page?
Mar 20 12:07:32 <sixwheeledbeast> I am logged in to garage and then browsing to that page I get permission denied.
Mar 20 12:07:42 <DocScrutinizer05> duh
Mar 20 12:08:20 <DocScrutinizer05> please check https://garage.maemo.org/project/admin/?group_id=773
Mar 20 12:09:17 <sixwheeledbeast> yep I see me
Mar 20 12:10:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ok can you click on "admin" and see the edit features?
Mar 20 12:12:16 <DocScrutinizer05> if that works, please proceed to https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mstardict and click "admin"
Mar 20 12:14:14 <sixwheeledbeast> I can see edit role? 
Mar 20 12:14:34 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: sorry?
Mar 20 12:15:22 <sixwheeledbeast> on https://garage.maemo.org/project/admin/?group_id=773 I can't find "edit feaatures" I am listed in the column to the right
Mar 20 12:18:02 <DocScrutinizer05> there's no "edit features" there are the features in the col at right that you can edit ;-)
Mar 20 12:18:16 <DocScrutinizer05> "Role" for example
Mar 20 12:18:32 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess that worked
Mar 20 12:18:57 <DocScrutinizer05> now please proceed to https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mstardict/ and click "Admin"
Mar 20 12:20:11 <sixwheeledbeast> Yes I can see my role on the right which is the same a rzr juice etc. 
Mar 20 12:20:26 <DocScrutinizer05> you prolly also could edit roles
Mar 20 12:20:38 <sixwheeledbeast> I have no "Admin" to click on mstardict
Mar 20 12:20:40 <DocScrutinizer05> which is not supposed to get done in that group by you
Mar 20 12:20:52 <DocScrutinizer05> that's pretty weird
Mar 20 12:22:02 <sixwheeledbeast> Makes sense why I can't get to admin pages then
Mar 20 12:22:05 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2016/03/20/plasma-desktopKU2219.png the second row "Admin" - the dark one
Mar 20 12:22:27 <sixwheeledbeast> yep I only have two options there
Mar 20 12:22:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I rhought that should get autoenabled for all menbers of maemo-council group
Mar 20 12:22:49 <DocScrutinizer05> dang!
Mar 20 12:22:53 <sixwheeledbeast> oh actaully Summary SCM andtracker
Mar 20 12:23:56 <juiceme> DocScrutinizer05, hi
Mar 20 12:24:37 <DocScrutinizer05> hi juiceme
Mar 20 12:24:54 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm just trying to get some light into garage admin
Mar 20 12:25:20 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: can you see "approve" and "reject" on http://maemo.org/packages/maintainer/pending/ ?
Mar 20 12:25:55 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: I can't access maemo.org at all, it hangs and timesout
Mar 20 12:26:14 <DocScrutinizer05> duh! you got fail2banned?
Mar 20 12:26:28 <juiceme> sixwheeledbeast, where are you connecting from?
Mar 20 12:27:08 <juiceme> DocScrutinizer05, so Oksana could not access?
Mar 20 12:27:09 <sixwheeledbeast> juiceme: it what way? I am not using Tor for that connection I don't believe
Mar 20 12:27:25 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly not when sixwheeledbeast could not
Mar 20 12:27:56 <juiceme> ok. just that at least I have no trouble connecting
Mar 20 12:28:09 <DocScrutinizer05> both were only "senio devel" in garage maemo-council group which I thought was the main point to define permissions
Mar 20 12:28:18 <juiceme> ah
Mar 20 12:28:28 <DocScrutinizer05> you are admin
Mar 20 12:28:54 <DocScrutinizer05> so you should be able to do all I can do (except some midgard specific editing maybe)
Mar 20 12:29:45 <DocScrutinizer05> juiceme: can you reach http://maemo.org/packages/maintainer/pending/ and do you see the "admit" / "reject" links?
Mar 20 12:30:11 <DocScrutinizer05> approve, sorry
Mar 20 12:30:47 <juiceme> is it http or https?
Mar 20 12:30:58 <juiceme> both give me error 500
Mar 20 12:31:04 <DocScrutinizer05> err here it's http, that link is ageold
Mar 20 12:31:10 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Mar 20 12:32:03 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2016/03/20/plasma-desktopwR2219.png
Mar 20 12:32:21 <juiceme> "Component org.maemo.packages failed to handle the request"
Mar 20 12:32:21 <DocScrutinizer05> are you properly logged in?
Mar 20 12:32:25 <juiceme> yes
Mar 20 12:32:28 <DocScrutinizer05> (upper right)
Mar 20 12:32:37 <DocScrutinizer05> DAMN!
Mar 20 12:33:24 <juiceme> starnge
Mar 20 12:33:27 <DocScrutinizer05> sth severely broken in maemo, I guess. Or I didn't/don't understand how council permissions actually are handled in garage
Mar 20 12:33:29 <juiceme> strange
Mar 20 12:33:37 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: It seems I need to restart my browser ,but I have a load of stuff I am doing at the moment.
Mar 20 12:34:49 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: no hurries, no hassle. When even juiceme can't reach a cheesy site like http://maemo.org/packages/maintainer/pending/ (which is no garage page, but anyway...)
Mar 20 12:36:11 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly for http://maemo.org/packages/maintainer/pending/ it needs permissions from gforge(?) to migrate to midgard, which is a cronjob and often broken
Mar 20 12:37:49 <DocScrutinizer05> juiceme: can you see the "role" dropdowns on https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mstardict/ when you click "Admin"?
Mar 20 12:40:49 <juiceme> I can see admins are Pali Rohár and Roman Moravcik
Mar 20 12:41:18 <DocScrutinizer05> juiceme: sure, the question is however if *you* can admin that particular project too
Mar 20 12:41:35 <juiceme> no admin button for me there...
Mar 20 12:41:45 <DocScrutinizer05> damndamndamn
Mar 20 12:49:05 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: HTTPS Everywhere plugin breaks maemo.org it would appear ;)
Mar 20 12:49:30 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: this is the group that gives repo stuff https://garage.maemo.org/project/admin/
Mar 20 12:51:03 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh
Mar 20 12:51:29 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway I just added jussi to gforge group (#1)
Mar 20 12:52:25 <sixwheeledbeast> I can access pending but still have no admin option in garage
Mar 20 12:52:51 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: I can't access that URL 
Mar 20 12:53:04 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Zugriff verweigert.<<
Mar 20 12:53:24 <DocScrutinizer05> not that I'd need to
Mar 20 12:53:39 <DocScrutinizer05> juiceme: please re-login
Mar 20 12:53:40 <merlin1991> it's the #1 group
Mar 20 12:53:51 <merlin1991> you only get in via the edit group / searceh
Mar 20 12:53:58 <merlin1991> the actual link in the end is dead meat :D
Mar 20 12:53:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh
Mar 20 12:54:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, then it's gforge
Mar 20 12:57:30 <juiceme> OK now I got "admin" tab
Mar 20 12:57:57 <Pali> so... roman give me permission to take whole mstardict project
Mar 20 12:58:25 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Mar 20 12:58:35 <DocScrutinizer05> you already 'did'
Mar 20 12:59:09 <DocScrutinizer05> juiceme: great! that's group #1 (gforge)
Mar 20 12:59:30 <juiceme> yes
Mar 20 13:00:05 <juiceme> OK, do I need to change some of the roles?
Mar 20 13:00:14 <DocScrutinizer05> so I hope you now can do all the admin stuff council is supposed to take care of
Mar 20 13:00:50 <DocScrutinizer05> (change roles) I'd suggest to negotiate in council who takes care about all that garage admin
Mar 20 13:01:22 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a pretty powerful role and not a good idea to keep "everybody and his dog" on that group
Mar 20 13:01:35 <juiceme> ok, need to discuss that then.
Mar 20 13:02:03 <juiceme> I hope you can give some advice on the tasks needed for administration.
Mar 20 13:02:17 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm absolutely sure in former times maemo-council group was relevant for this permission stuff
Mar 20 13:02:38 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe actually broken during migration, dunno
Mar 20 13:03:36 <DocScrutinizer05> (advice) sure, just holler
Mar 20 13:04:04 <DocScrutinizer05> main issue is actually http://maemo.org/packages/maintainer/pending/
Mar 20 13:05:34 <DocScrutinizer05> and there should be some email notification too for that (and garage project application etc) stuff, maybe ask warfare about which mail alias to edit and you guys at council discuss who should receive and manage them
Mar 20 13:06:22 <DocScrutinizer05> possibly merlin1991 knows more details
Mar 20 13:06:48 <juiceme> OK. still cannot access the pending page, though.
Mar 20 13:07:55 <DocScrutinizer05> wait until that dang cronjob tosses ober the group permissions from gforge to midgard. Runs once a day iirc
Mar 20 13:08:04 <DocScrutinizer05> over*
Mar 20 13:08:12 <juiceme> okay.
Mar 20 13:08:18 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Mar 20 13:14:50 <DocScrutinizer05> I suggested to change the design if infra there so every administrative edit in the gforge databese creates just one record of exactly this event and appends it to the ascii text file that f´gets read by midgard cronjob http poll, so the cronjob could run one per minute. Well it's a lot of work to chage that
Mar 20 13:15:07 <DocScrutinizer05> s/ if / of /
Mar 20 13:15:08 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: I suggested to change the design of infra there so every administrative edit in the gforge databese creates just one record of exactly this event and appends it to the ascii text file that f´gets read by midgard cronjob http poll, so the cronjob could ru...
Mar 20 14:19:18 <L29Ah> is there a page where i can see a history of additions/removals/updates of packages in extras?
Mar 20 15:06:22 <DocScrutinizer05> err yes?
Mar 20 15:06:53 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.org/packages/
Mar 20 15:12:40 <DocScrutinizer05> or did you think of sth different?
Mar 20 15:12:46 <DocScrutinizer05> L29Ah: ^^^
Mar 20 15:52:30 <L29Ah> Forbidden
Mar 20 15:52:30 <L29Ah> You don't have permission to access /packages/ on this server.
Mar 20 15:52:53 <KotCzarny> soa#1
Mar 20 15:53:00 <KotCzarny> works fine here
Mar 20 15:53:18 <L29Ah> went thru tor, 403 as well
Mar 20 15:53:33 <L29Ah> maemo infra is crap
Mar 20 15:53:46 <KotCzarny> naah
Mar 20 15:53:49 <KotCzarny> could be worse
Mar 20 15:54:44 <KotCzarny> qa queue looks hilarious
Mar 20 15:54:59 <KotCzarny> qa effectively stopped happening ~2009
Mar 20 15:58:16 <DocScrutinizer05> no, it's stopforumspam
Mar 20 15:58:46 <L29Ah> i guess i can spam by updating my n900 repos
Mar 20 15:58:48 <L29Ah> can't i?
Mar 20 15:59:05 <DocScrutinizer05> huh?
Mar 20 15:59:47 <L29Ah> ok nvm, apt-get update seems to work
Mar 20 16:00:30 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, it doesn't use Tor
Mar 20 16:00:30 <L29Ah> who is the proper addressee of my whining?
Mar 20 16:00:37 <L29Ah> i don't use tor either
Mar 20 16:00:49 <KotCzarny> staff at maemo.org
Mar 20 16:01:01 <KotCzarny> also council
Mar 20 16:01:08 <L29Ah> doesn't look like valid email/im address
Mar 20 16:01:12 <L29Ah> or forum id
Mar 20 16:01:16 <KotCzarny> ũnbanip
Mar 20 16:01:20 <KotCzarny> ~unbanip
Mar 20 16:01:21 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, unbanip is please contact techstaff <at> maemo <dot> org with your request, or see ~techstaff
Mar 20 16:01:29 <KotCzarny> right, techstaff
Mar 20 16:01:32 <L29Ah> :*
Mar 20 16:02:04 <KotCzarny> but i would try to put that issue to council
Mar 20 16:02:22 <KotCzarny> s/to/through/
Mar 20 16:02:23 <infobot> KotCzarny meant: but i would try through put that issue to council
Mar 20 16:03:16 <DocScrutinizer05> hmmm cl-154.led-01.ru.sixxs.net   wouldn't be surprised to find that provider's complete subnet on stopforumspam's blacklist
Mar 20 16:03:19 <KotCzarny> also, i think poor maemo.org is suffering from all that 7 years of packages history
Mar 20 16:04:04 <KotCzarny> just browsing 'all packages' requires ~20-30s of wait before page load
Mar 20 16:04:32 <DocScrutinizer05> L29Ah:   https://www.stopforumspam.com/removal
Mar 20 16:06:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~#maemo unbanip is also see https://www.stopforumspam.com/removal
Mar 20 16:06:21 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
Mar 20 16:14:17 <DocScrutinizer05> L29Ah: hmm I don't find anything for your v6 IP addr
Mar 20 16:14:21 <DocScrutinizer05> on https://www.stopforumspam.com/search
Mar 20 16:17:25 <DocScrutinizer05> L29Ah: also see host -a maemo.org; it has no AAAA aka IPv6 addr
Mar 20 16:18:00 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno if that's relevant here
Mar 20 16:19:05 <DocScrutinizer05> it's at least relevant since I can't deduce your IPv4 address you might use to contact maemo.org, from your IPv6 address according to your hostname in IRC
Mar 20 16:22:47 <DocScrutinizer05> ~unbanip
Mar 20 16:22:48 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, unbanip is please contact techstaff <at> maemo <dot> org with your request, or see ~techstaff, or see https://www.stopforumspam.com/removal
Mar 20 16:23:10 <DocScrutinizer05> ~techstaff
Mar 20 16:23:11 <infobot> i heard techstaff is techstaff(AT)maemo.org - the folks that keep your maemo infra running. Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
Mar 20 16:41:55 <L29Ah> 109.188.124.5
Mar 20 16:43:04 <L29Ah> sent it them
Mar 20 16:44:24 <L29Ah> btw insane captcha took me 15 seconds + several clicks to unblock its js
Mar 20 16:44:52 <L29Ah> In order to confirm your email address and the validity of your removal request, we require that you click on the link below
Mar 20 16:45:01 <L29Ah> sick shit
Mar 20 16:45:20 <L29Ah> all this shit is done in order to READ a "PUBLIC" WEB PAGE
Mar 20 16:45:25 <L29Ah> Your request will now be reviewed by a moderator and can take several hours.
Mar 20 16:45:33 <L29Ah> sounds legit
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 21 02:59:58 2016