**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 08 02:59:58 2016 Apr 08 03:00:53 when you really know to solder, aquired real mastership, you can solder with a 10$ iron too. even with a hot spoon Apr 08 03:04:17 and for 'normal' soldering (all but SMT) you don't really need flux Apr 08 03:04:33 just quality solder wire Apr 08 03:05:03 solder wire has a flux multicore Apr 08 03:06:01 actually the flux core is what separates high quality solder wire from crap Apr 08 03:06:15 the mere metal is almost always the same Apr 08 03:11:41 freemangordon: http://paste.opensuse.org/4960820 Apr 08 03:40:21 I seee Apr 08 03:40:23 Thanks :) Apr 08 03:45:29 ok, I'm fed up for today. The N900 testpoint hack seems to work. What's not working is the compination of minicom and TTL-232RG-VREG1V8-WE - not even electrical loopback, neither testing for voltage changes on TX line of that adapter while typing chars works Apr 08 03:45:48 combination* Apr 08 04:03:19 DocScrutinizer05: are you sure that one doesn't require a 1.8V ref? Apr 08 04:03:58 yes, since the adapter has its own power supply Apr 08 04:04:11 adapter? Apr 08 04:04:13 I suspect mess with CTS/RTS Apr 08 04:04:25 isn't that TTL-232RG-VREG1V8-WE a FTDI cable ? Apr 08 04:04:27 TTL-232RG-VREG1V8-WE Apr 08 04:04:34 yes Apr 08 04:04:49 okay... never seem them with their own power supply Apr 08 04:05:02 the one I use has a VREF input to take different IO voltages Apr 08 04:05:09 http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documents/DataSheets/Cables/DS_TTL-232RG_CABLES.pdf Apr 08 04:06:46 OTH, I use kermit.. minicom is alwaysodd Apr 08 04:06:53 >> Power Supply Output except for the TTL-232RG-VIP-WE where this is an input and power is supplied by the application interface logic.<< Apr 08 04:07:22 Oh that's what you mean by power supply Apr 08 04:08:56 so yes, TX has 1V8, and RX has some weak 1V7 Apr 08 04:09:41 and TX doesn't show any dynamic signal while typing chars on minicom Apr 08 04:10:06 friggin minicom tells me "offline" always Apr 08 04:10:26 I strongly suspect RTS/CTS Apr 08 04:10:51 though minicom should override this with HW-flowcontrol off Apr 08 04:11:24 I hope it's not DCD which isn't supported by the FTDI Apr 08 04:15:13 2initialize modem" \o/ Apr 08 04:15:27 FFS minicom you b*tch Apr 08 04:17:36 aaaand we have LIFTOFF, err noise on battery insert Apr 08 04:18:24 DocScrutinizer05: hi! Apr 08 04:18:42 alas nothing but noise, even during boot Apr 08 04:19:03 115200 8N1 Apr 08 04:19:09 hmm, no Apr 08 04:19:16 9600-n-1 Apr 08 04:19:19 k Apr 08 04:19:27 9600-8-n-1 Apr 08 04:20:24 pretty much same noise Apr 08 04:20:28 where do you see that noise? a garbage chars in minicom? Apr 08 04:20:35 yep Apr 08 04:20:48 then it most-probably works Apr 08 04:21:53 not convinced yet, actually that friggin N900 *really* has 2V8 on debug port, ask me where from it gets that Apr 08 04:22:26 debug port == com2? Apr 08 04:22:54 but since the FTDI detects signal, it should be happy with 2V8 and dunno 0.3V Apr 08 04:23:06 dunno which com port that is Apr 08 04:23:35 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking#Debug_ports Apr 08 04:24:03 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20160408_002.jpg Apr 08 04:25:07 scope meant it looks like 115200 Apr 08 04:25:19 ok, it might be 115200 then Apr 08 04:26:09 I wonder how did you get that readings without the battery inserted Apr 08 04:26:33 see "frequency: 125kHz" from err wait... upper left of scope, but that's between cursors and that means the bit is... err yes as long as one sine wave of ~120kHz Apr 08 04:26:55 this is a storage scope ;-) Apr 08 04:27:22 aah, ok :) Apr 08 04:28:30 well, the friggin thing makes noise when battery insert and during bootup. As good as it gets before I have a nap Apr 08 04:28:48 yeah, take some rest Apr 08 04:28:54 n8 Apr 08 04:29:01 night Apr 08 04:29:27 ~minicom Apr 08 04:29:28 minicom is, like, ok. In fact I did xmodem transfers from minicom. But after reseting, minicom receives dirty echo from serial port Apr 08 04:29:48 DocScrutinizer05: what is the low level offset from zero? Apr 08 04:30:02 sort if zero iirc Apr 08 04:30:31 massive shootovers though Apr 08 04:30:31 I meant - what is seen on the soce Apr 08 04:30:50 yeah, zero volts plusminus Apr 08 04:31:42 no DC offset Apr 08 04:31:49 ok Apr 08 04:32:15 the downward shootovers are actually negative Apr 08 04:32:41 ~1V I'd guess Apr 08 04:33:08 minus 1V Apr 08 04:34:14 hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__24789__Soldering_Station_with_Adjustable_Heat_Range_with_AUS_Plug.html Apr 08 04:34:20 gonna check signal with scope later, once more Apr 08 04:34:22 Maybe that Apr 08 04:34:48 DocScrutinizer05: yeah, you'd better continue after having some sleep Apr 08 04:35:04 azkay__: looks good enough Apr 08 04:36:03 azkay__: make sure you get a collection of soldertips for it, you won't prolly find any spares later on Apr 08 04:36:48 krhrhr >>Struggles to solder XT60 connectors even on max setting. 60W? I do not think so. You get what you pay for.<< Apr 08 04:37:50 however read next comments Apr 08 04:37:54 Yeah Apr 08 04:38:12 It's a chinese clone of some other brand, supposed to have all interchangable parts Apr 08 04:43:35 get a damp sponge for wiping the hot tip clean Apr 08 04:44:13 not your kitchen sponge, there's lead in the solder Apr 08 04:45:00 about time for "n8yn8!" Apr 08 04:45:29 d00d use ckermit :P Apr 08 04:45:49 minicom is good for former telix users Apr 08 04:47:35 let's see Apr 08 04:47:41 'kermit' ? Apr 08 04:49:34 hmm k, http://paste.opensuse.org/94124643 Apr 08 04:50:33 DocScrutinizer05: yes, ckermit Apr 08 04:51:39 o.O Apr 08 04:51:46 locate ckermit: Apr 08 04:51:56 /usr/share/doc/packages/ckermit Apr 08 04:51:58 /usr/share/doc/packages/ckermit/COPYING.TXT Apr 08 04:51:59 /usr/share/man/man1/ckermit.1.gz Apr 08 04:52:10 no executable Apr 08 04:53:04 dunno, maybe you have only that -doc package installed Apr 08 04:53:15 http://paste.opensuse.org/22048302 Apr 08 04:54:19 DocScrutinizer05: could you ask zypper to list ckermit package contents? Apr 08 04:54:53 http://paste.opensuse.org/45733908 Apr 08 04:55:22 http://paste.opensuse.org/66321491 Apr 08 04:55:52 sorry, can't help, ubuntu here :) Apr 08 04:56:54 seems google can: Apr 08 04:56:56 http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/162092/how-to-list-installed-files-from-a-package-in-terminal Apr 08 04:56:57 http://wstaw.org/m/2016/04/08/plasma-desktopKh2219.png Apr 08 04:57:30 well, seems it is kermit after all Apr 08 04:57:35 yeah Apr 08 04:58:06 saturn:~ # ker Apr 08 04:58:08 kermit kernel-install Apr 08 04:58:17 n8 Apr 08 04:58:21 now for real Apr 08 04:58:44 wouldn't the sponge burn Apr 08 04:58:53 also how can you *go* to sleep at 7am Apr 08 04:59:02 you wake up *from* sleep at 7am Apr 08 04:59:30 JRTZV here Apr 08 04:59:49 JR TimeZone Virtual Apr 08 05:00:09 doc pls go to sleep at a normal time Apr 08 05:00:16 it's good for you ;-; Apr 08 07:06:44 uber app: Login finished, estimate cost/time finished Apr 08 07:32:29 Any progress with pebble time and Nokia N900? http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1346632&postcount=16 Apr 08 09:40:57 is it just me or gnugo isn't working on maemo? Apr 08 09:41:14 from extras-devel repo Apr 08 12:04:01 What does "not working" mean? Apr 08 12:09:51 ~ $ gnugo Apr 08 12:09:51 -sh: gnugo: not found Apr 08 12:10:33 /opt/gnugo/bin $ sh gnugo Apr 08 12:10:34 gnugo: line 1: syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")") Apr 08 12:10:34 /opt/gnugo/bin $ Apr 08 12:10:48 that Apr 08 12:11:09 it is installed properly, but no way to start it Apr 08 12:11:27 try ./gnugo Apr 08 12:11:35 or im missing something (which is probably the case) Apr 08 12:11:55 not found Apr 08 12:12:04 I don't think gnugo usually comes with a shell script wrapper, so `sh gnugo` probably isn't going to make sense. Apr 08 12:12:15 When you're inside /opt/gnugo/bin Apr 08 12:12:24 there it worked Apr 08 12:12:27 thx Apr 08 12:12:32 if you're not in there, just specify the whole path. Apr 08 12:12:58 or add /opt/gnugo/bin to your $PATH somehow. Apr 08 12:13:47 or symlink to /usr/bin Apr 08 12:15:14 what exactly is ./ command? Apr 08 12:15:29 when you run something like `sh foo`, sh reads the "foo" file and interprets it as a shell script. Apr 08 12:16:17 in typical unix shells, when the first part of a command has a slash in it, it's interpreted as a path to the program to execute. Apr 08 12:16:45 . means current dir Apr 08 12:17:00 otherwise it looks for it in $PATH entries (unless it happens to be an unquoted shell built-in). Apr 08 12:17:33 so if you are in /opt/bin and enter ./cmd then it's like providing /opt/bin/cmd Apr 08 12:17:43 Yes, "./gnugo" is just another way of saying "gnugo", but it has a slash in it so the shell interprets it as a path. Apr 08 12:18:26 hmm i sort of see Apr 08 12:18:27 otherwise it will expect to find it in /bin or /usr/bin or whatever else is in your $PATH variable at the time. Apr 08 12:18:44 in similar way .. means 'parent dir' and ~ is expanded by shell to your HOME Apr 08 12:19:34 but one difference from providing full path is that app starts in current dir Apr 08 12:20:13 It always inherits the current directory from the parent. Apr 08 12:20:24 ie. if you are in /home/user and type /opt/bin/cmd and the program would look for file 1.jpg it will look for /home/user/1.jpg Apr 08 12:20:51 but if you are in /opt/bin and type ./cmd program trying to open 1.jpg will look in /opt/bin/1.jpg Apr 08 12:22:35 and if i symlink gnugo to /usr/bin and run just ./gnugo symlink will point to right place and it works without specifying path? Apr 08 12:22:57 no, ./gnugo will try to load gnugo from CURRENT dir Apr 08 12:23:01 ie. fail Apr 08 12:23:27 if you symlink gnugo to /usr/bin you can just run gnugo (and bash will search for gnugo in dirs specified n PATH variable) Apr 08 12:23:34 "./gnugo" has a slash in it, so it doesn't search $PATH directories. Apr 08 12:24:00 ah right Apr 08 12:24:37 somehow i have a feeling that im stumbling over pretty basic things here :) Apr 08 12:24:48 :) Apr 08 12:24:50 yup Apr 08 12:25:06 Depends what you consider to be basic. Apr 08 12:25:11 you cant get more basic than *nix paths Apr 08 12:25:37 I'd say ctrl-d on a terminal is more basic, but that's probably harder to grasp. Apr 08 12:25:55 one could live whole life without knowing ctrl-d Apr 08 12:26:17 not knowing about it, or not knowing what it does? Apr 08 12:26:25 not knowing about it Apr 08 12:26:43 (ie. killing apps by clicking X) Apr 08 17:36:56 Anyone having problems with modest and yahoo IMAP? Apr 08 17:37:29 afaik yahoo used pop3 for free service, unless they've changed their policy Apr 08 17:38:46 I've been using IMAPs for quite a while but it seemed to have stopped working in January Apr 08 17:39:04 grab thunderbird and check? Apr 08 17:39:05 Since I don't use it as a primary mail provider, I didn't notice it stopped working for me Apr 08 17:39:13 Alpine seems to work with the same setup Apr 08 17:39:32 so as far as I know it's a modest issue or something with my n900 or tmobile Apr 08 17:39:48 oh wait Apr 08 17:39:58 scratch tmobile, I tested over my wifi at home Apr 08 17:40:40 Yahoo "last updated 1/20/2016" Apr 08 17:41:04 Gmail and my private mail server "Last updated 10:50 am" according to modest Apr 08 17:42:19 as i said, check on pc, if it works, maybe they've disabled some ssl* protocols and left only tls* Apr 08 17:43:08 yes it works on my pc through alpine Apr 08 17:43:24 what are the settings by the way? haven't checked my yahoo in a long time. can test for you Apr 08 17:44:10 so modest has problems with tls? Apr 08 17:44:26 imap.mail.yahoo.com port 993 Apr 08 17:44:45 SSL Apr 08 17:47:53 works Apr 08 17:48:11 interesting, thanks Apr 08 17:48:25 I stopped using modest, it completely stopped downloading email for me back in January IIRC. I agree I thought yahoo was pop only on free mail. Apr 08 17:49:08 actually it seems to login but cant get mails or at least no errors Apr 08 17:49:09 ahh Apr 08 17:49:29 sixwheeledbeast: ok yes that's the behavior I'm seeing so perhaps there is really an issue here Apr 08 17:49:45 I'm still using IMAP on alpine on my linux box and that still works Apr 08 17:49:46 reminds me i have a twitter account, hmm. Apr 08 17:49:47 ecc3g: you on CSSU? Apr 08 17:49:51 yes Apr 08 17:49:59 ecc3g: Testing? Apr 08 17:50:03 no, stable Apr 08 17:50:19 ecc3g: it's stable CSSU then, as I have a testing device that mail works Apr 08 17:50:20 working just fine here (Yahoo + Modest) sees all 36 mails. cssu-thumb Apr 08 17:50:31 hmm Apr 08 17:50:43 so I guess I need to pull a new most from testing? Apr 08 17:50:44 tbh i use mutt 90% of the time Apr 08 17:51:04 ecc3g: no reason to still be on stable nowadays :) Apr 08 17:51:09 I guess I can always ssh and run alpine, but modest seems to work Apr 08 17:51:17 ecc3g: hopefully an update is due and then we will be working again Apr 08 17:51:34 cssu-testing is stable enough anyway Apr 08 17:51:36 Sicelo: I don't agree, stable is important to be maintained Apr 08 17:51:48 i didn't say it shouldn't :) Apr 08 17:52:05 If nobody uses Stable then there is no one to find these things. Apr 08 17:52:08 cssu-thumb is nice too Apr 08 17:52:17 but current testing is stable enough for the last two years is it? and will be stable soon as merlin finds the time Apr 08 17:52:18 yes Apr 08 17:52:34 i really should go get another n900 and try thumb on it Apr 08 17:52:45 I did mention here in January that modest had stopped working but I assumed it was just me so never bothered investigating Apr 08 17:52:58 No one else shouted up. Apr 08 17:53:06 ah... sorry i must have missed that message Apr 08 17:53:19 ecc3g: np :) Apr 08 17:53:56 both testing and stable are due an update it's just devs having the time to package one up. Apr 08 17:54:16 I miss a lot of things, I just realized I didn't get yahoo mail updates since jan :) Apr 08 17:54:30 lol Apr 08 17:58:56 I see little reason not to have the benefits of thumb if your on testing. Apr 08 18:03:54 -stable will see an update *soonish* Apr 08 18:04:00 that should get your modest back on track Apr 08 18:08:06 Wizzup, Pali: updated my guide: https://github.com/robotanarchy/penguinphone/wiki/N900:-Running-ofono-with-a-4.x-kernel Apr 08 18:11:10 merlin1991: thanks Apr 08 18:13:52 robotanarchy_: did you also see the guide I pm'd you Apr 08 18:13:56 with all the dbus commends Apr 08 18:13:58 commands* Apr 08 18:20:12 Wizzup: I saw it yesterday, but then forgot about it. thanks for pointing me at it again, I will link it at the end Apr 08 18:21:00 robotanarchy_: they illustrate the dbus interface decently Apr 08 18:22:58 I also never had troubles with eudev and openrc Apr 08 18:23:04 (wrt your 'systemd hanging' problem) Apr 08 18:24:12 Wizzup: I don't like systemd anyway. it's just what debian comes with these days... once I have some reasonable userland code written, I'll base everything on another distro Apr 08 18:24:56 currently I'm favoring starch linux most :p arch linux' pacman + musl libc + busybox. and I'd use runit as init system I guess (just like in void linux and sabotage) Apr 08 18:25:06 I have a few gentoo musl systems Apr 08 18:25:09 with openrc Apr 08 18:25:36 nice :) Apr 08 18:25:50 now that most of the n900 driver stuff seems to work (at least for pda func), I am going to drink beer and brainstorm on how to cont. Apr 08 18:25:57 REing audio I'd still love to help with Apr 08 18:26:19 Wizzup: I though audio is already somewhat working? Apr 08 18:26:30 I meant phone calls Apr 08 18:26:37 closed nokia audio bits Apr 08 18:26:44 If you mean ALSA, then yes, ALSA work Apr 08 18:26:45 s Apr 08 18:27:04 although I think it is (still?) possible to damage/destroy the speakers Apr 08 18:27:42 Wizzup: wasn't there a blog post, where someone managed to make a call? Apr 08 18:28:24 pavel, yes Apr 08 18:28:25 and yeah, that alsa stuff also needs to be fixed. destroying speakers is bad :D Apr 08 18:28:51 robotanarchy_: but the nokia closed bits are still interesting since they do many useful things for calls IIRC Apr 08 18:29:03 ah okay Apr 08 18:30:04 maybe I can even help with that. though my focus is right now making the phone usable for every day usage. very basic sms and call support, with an xmpp frontend so I can use pidgin for now for writing sms Apr 08 18:33:25 robotanarchy_: ah, the main thing I do not care about is the actual phone func Apr 08 18:33:26 at least not much Apr 08 18:33:42 but I have a day-to-day n900 and I want to turn this one into something more useful for pda tasks etc Apr 08 18:33:54 with up to date sw - also firefox 45 (or whatever we have now) Apr 08 18:34:22 do you have special config options for firefox, so it performs well on the n900? Apr 08 18:34:49 I've tried it out and it hangs from time to time for me on that debian900 setup I have. running with noscript enabled. Apr 08 18:35:13 although it probably was the LTS version of firefox, that I tested Apr 08 18:38:28 Aaro, the dude who wrote the guide you have sent me also has an interesting minimal linux on n900 project: http://musicnaut.iki.fi/comp/los Apr 08 18:53:08 Wizzup: yay, sending and receiving sms works :> Apr 08 18:54:55 robotanarchy_: cool Apr 08 18:55:25 robotanarchy_: I would use firefox on the n900 only for a few things Apr 08 18:55:29 not for most sites Apr 08 18:55:47 netsurf is slowly getting javascript support, I'll try out that :) Apr 08 18:55:55 and yeah, makes sense Apr 08 18:56:44 I'd like to use it for notes, basic rsync/gprs, some security tasks (although modem), and just proper powered terminal when I need it Apr 08 18:56:51 My plan is to use s2r extensively Apr 08 18:57:07 since it will not do calls anyway Apr 08 18:57:58 well then you basically have everything? Apr 08 18:58:14 well, usb host probably Apr 08 18:58:55 I recommend the terminology terminal. although bloated as hell (i mean, you can play videos in that thing), it is entirely written in C, has some touch support and performs well on the n900. Apr 08 18:59:05 could you guys leave a note somewhere on http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=57 about your alternative OS experiences? Apr 08 18:59:18 merlijn@chrometwo ~ $ ps xua | grep terminology -c Apr 08 18:59:18 9 Apr 08 18:59:24 ;-) Apr 08 18:59:28 :D Apr 08 19:00:04 robotanarchy_: I have enlightenment installed with the mobile ui as well Apr 08 19:00:13 I decided to mostly not use X though, I think Apr 08 19:00:16 if I don't need it... Apr 08 19:01:05 https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1498779 <- as you may know that is my minimal, i3 based touch ui for the n900. (DocScrutinizer05: does this count as alternative os experience? ;) ) Apr 08 19:14:17 thanks, I linked to it Apr 08 19:15:07 DocScrutinizer05: cool, where? Apr 08 19:15:16 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1503106#post1503106 Apr 08 20:04:14 bencoh: BTW, I think there is a council meeting right now, I guess you can ask there re autobuilder etc Apr 08 20:11:34 ooh council meetings still exist? Apr 08 20:14:26 sure Apr 08 22:18:12 (wget http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz -O - 2>/dev/null| tar xvz)&&cd maemo-my-private-workdir&&sudo ./flash-it-all.sh Apr 08 22:20:55 ~flashing-cmdline is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2016-04-09.log.html#t2016-04-09T01:18:12 Apr 08 22:20:55 ...but flashing-cmdline is already something else... Apr 08 22:21:09 ~forget flashing-cmdline Apr 08 22:21:09 DocScrutinizer05: i forgot flashing-cmdline Apr 08 22:21:11 ~flashing-cmdline is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2016-04-09.log.html#t2016-04-09T01:18:12 Apr 08 22:21:12 DocScrutinizer05: okay Apr 09 00:00:47 OMG kermit, even more options to use wrong than minicom Apr 09 00:01:44 how could I hope that kermit was anything else than that old filetransfer from bulletin box times Apr 09 00:26:06 freemangordon: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20160409_001.jpg http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20160409_002.jpg Apr 09 00:31:14 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1503047#post1503047 Apr 09 00:49:41 http://paste.opensuse.org/96915526 Apr 09 00:50:27 freemangordon: not sure how to make kernel log to console, possibly via a flasher flag? Apr 09 01:21:22 The kernel always logs to the console. Apr 09 01:40:08 freemangordon: very interesting: http://paste.opensuse.org/40855152 -- even more interesting: http://paste.opensuse.org/93460606 . A ./flasher-3.5 --set-rd-flags=serial-console did the trick :-) Apr 09 01:54:56 freemangordon: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/console-bootlog Apr 09 01:58:27 or http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/N900/N900-log-full.txt **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Apr 09 02:59:58 2016