**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 18 02:59:58 2016
Apr 18 03:31:38 <gry> i get this council elections mail and i have no clue what it is going to do
Apr 18 03:31:56 <gry> this 'community' word is something companies say to signify voice of the volunteers
Apr 18 03:32:09 <gry> it stays around, and i feel weird about it
Apr 18 03:32:37 <gry> which list is supposed to actually have news of substantial technical and planning things that happen at maemo?
Apr 18 03:33:03 <gry> "maemo-community" is just about dead
Apr 18 03:33:49 <gry> http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_mailing_lists has a list, but it's just maemo, it's no longer the 'community vs nokia.com' separation; it's now the same thing
Apr 18 03:36:04 <gry> i just subscribed to them all
Apr 18 03:52:46 <Oksana> It's community vs legal-entity, I think.
Apr 18 03:54:55 <gry> they're sort of together
Apr 18 07:16:02 <DocScrutinizer05> it's we and Dr Who against the Daleks and the ubiquitous decay of time
Apr 18 07:17:15 <DocScrutinizer05> gry: tell us about your part of planning and technical that happens at your corner of maemo
Apr 18 07:17:55 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo is not some entity, maemo is you and me and all those who are contributing
Apr 18 07:18:30 <DocScrutinizer05> and council is the office that coordinates whatever needs coordination, not more not less
Apr 18 07:25:29 <gry> DocScrutinizer05: i agree with you, i just feel a bit alienated by this 'community' word
Apr 18 07:27:15 <DocScrutinizer05> may I offer a mailfilter that does a simple sed s/community/family/g ? ;-)
Apr 18 07:27:53 <gry> i just don't use a word for describing a group of people, other than 'we'
Apr 18 07:28:18 <DocScrutinizer05> if you don't feel happy with family either, used 'crowd' intead, or whatever you prefer
Apr 18 07:28:45 <DocScrutinizer05> the maemo we council. sounds funny
Apr 18 07:29:00 <DocScrutinizer05> but... why not. suggest a rename
Apr 18 07:31:04 <DocScrutinizer05> at least it would have an advantage that statements like "i've done so much for the community" would sound a bit weird with the new "I've done so much for us"
Apr 18 07:31:29 * Oksana applauds the weirdness of the conversation
Apr 18 07:33:24 <DocScrutinizer05> how weird sounds this then: >> Since I've already put quite some efforts in the continuance of maemo society<<
Apr 18 07:34:35 <DocScrutinizer05> actually I've been wrong, no 'community' in there, instead yet another very new undefined term "society"
Apr 18 07:41:18 <DocScrutinizer05> but I guess it's not as far away as you might think, from what gry actually expects to see on ML. There is no magic entity that trows technical and planning decisions (SIC!) over the literal wall. Neither is council that entity nor does any other such entity exist. If people don't contribute by themselves, how can they expect contributions from somebody else regarding planning and technical stuff?
Apr 18 08:30:03 <bencoh> ooh right is that election time already?
Apr 18 08:33:33 <KotCzarny> exciting, isn't it?
Apr 18 08:38:21 <DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: yes
Apr 18 10:46:46 <ceene> i've got a patch for QT
Apr 18 10:46:50 <ceene> that removes SSL3
Apr 18 10:46:54 <ceene> shall I send it to someone?
Apr 18 10:47:25 <ceene> it allows some applications to work again
Apr 18 10:47:37 <ceene> such as getmewheels, possibly Yappari
Apr 18 10:47:49 <ceene> (well, Yappari has its own problems, but this is yet another one)
Apr 18 10:48:18 <ceene> or is there any mailing lists on which i should propose this patch?
Apr 18 10:58:36 <bencoh> qt4 is in base repo so I'd say cssu
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 18 11:00:55 2016
Apr 18 11:01:00 <freemangordon_> ok
Apr 18 11:01:02 <ceene> so it doesn't break anything else
Apr 18 11:01:20 <ceene> but it's basically overriding a +    switch (configuration.protocol) {
Apr 18 11:01:35 <ceene> to remove a couple cases
Apr 18 11:14:12 <KotCzarny> funny as it is, if one has arm device, having n900 build env is as simple as unpacking glibc and dpkg from fremantle/sdk repo
Apr 18 11:15:11 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: care to elaborate?
Apr 18 11:15:46 <KotCzarny> wizzup, simple chroot suffices to be able to build packages for n900 
Apr 18 11:16:25 <KotCzarny> no need for scratchbox, qemu, crosscompilers etc
Apr 18 11:16:36 <Wizzup> :)
Apr 18 11:16:45 <Wizzup> I'm considering getting a cello board, but I don't trust LeMaker...
Apr 18 11:16:47 <Defiant> KotCzarny: whats the problem with qemu chroot?
Apr 18 11:17:02 <Wizzup> http://www.96boards.org/products/ee/cello/
Apr 18 11:17:19 <KotCzarny> defiant: i dont have any x86 devices running atm, but i have plenty of arm based ones
Apr 18 11:17:32 <KotCzarny> wizzup: i'm considering opi+2
Apr 18 11:17:39 <KotCzarny> 2gb of ram and h3
Apr 18 11:18:44 <Wizzup> But does it have proper SATA, PCI, DDR3 SO-DIMM slots? :) 
Apr 18 11:18:48 <KotCzarny> nope
Apr 18 11:18:51 <Wizzup> This is the AMD ARM thing
Apr 18 11:19:04 <KotCzarny> wizzup, what is the price tag?
Apr 18 11:19:07 <Wizzup> 300$
Apr 18 11:19:10 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 11:19:19 <KotCzarny> vs 50$ for opi+2
Apr 18 11:19:21 <Wizzup> I recently get some tax returns
Apr 18 11:19:24 <Wizzup> Link to the opi+2?
Apr 18 11:19:47 <KotCzarny> features or shop page?
Apr 18 11:19:53 <Wizzup> either
Apr 18 11:20:02 <KotCzarny> http://linux-sunxi.org/Xunlong_Orange_Pi_Plus_2
Apr 18 11:20:27 <M4rtinK> note that the cello board should be SBSA & SBSB compatible IIRC
Apr 18 11:20:28 <KotCzarny> there is a lot of work in progres in h3 mainlining
Apr 18 11:21:01 <M4rtinK> that can make quite a bit of difference on the distro support sanity side
Apr 18 11:21:06 <KotCzarny> usb-sata chip on opi+2 sucks, but is enough to connect ssd
Apr 18 11:21:40 <M4rtinK> (https://czanik.blogs.balabit.com/2016/03/cello-the-first-affordable-64-bit-arm-server-board/)
Apr 18 11:21:42 <Wizzup> But with the A1100 I can plug in an old radeon gpu - that seems like a win
Apr 18 11:21:51 <KotCzarny> if you need such thing
Apr 18 11:21:58 <KotCzarny> i like low power computing
Apr 18 11:21:59 <Wizzup> M4rtinK: What is SBSA and SBSB?
Apr 18 11:22:19 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: right, but I do all my daily work on ARM (chromebook laptop), and sometimes not having any gpu can be a pita
Apr 18 11:22:33 <Wizzup> And this cello board seems like a nice dev machine
Apr 18 11:22:42 <KotCzarny> for gpu related tasks i have my pc box
Apr 18 11:23:09 <Wizzup> M4rtinK: nvm, it is in the blog
Apr 18 11:23:14 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: I have no intel pc :) 
Apr 18 11:23:26 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: try using an unaccelerated framebuffer
Apr 18 11:23:30 <Wizzup> move a few windows, scroll in firefox
Apr 18 11:23:34 <Wizzup> tell me how that fells
Apr 18 11:23:40 <Wizzup> then imagine doing that for ~1-2 years :) 
Apr 18 11:23:49 <Wizzup> Some even basic 2d accel is definitely quite nice
Apr 18 11:23:56 <KotCzarny> wizzup: if sbc supports g2d fbturbo works like a charm
Apr 18 11:24:11 <KotCzarny> Preparing to replace autoconf 2.61-8 (using autoconf_2.65-2~bpo50+1_all.deb) ...
Apr 18 11:24:11 <Wizzup> allwinner g2d is not the same as the exynos g2d apparently
Apr 18 11:24:13 <KotCzarny> hah.
Apr 18 11:24:33 <KotCzarny> eat that you fricking debian deps hell
Apr 18 11:24:35 <Wizzup> also, fbturbo doesn't work with xrandr
Apr 18 11:24:55 <Wizzup> I am just using the modesetting driver
Apr 18 11:29:43 <KotCzarny> seriously, autoconf in extras/cssu should get upgraded to 2.65
Apr 18 11:31:03 <M4rtinK> Wizzup: sorry, got some connectivity issues
Apr 18 11:31:11 <M4rtinK> Wizzup: so basically, SBSA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Base_System_Architecture
Apr 18 11:31:41 <M4rtinK> Wizzup: the idea is that you can install a generic OS image on SBSA compliant boards
Apr 18 11:31:59 <Wizzup> Cool
Apr 18 11:32:07 <Wizzup> I mostly just compile my own kernels and use gentoo, so I wasn't too scared
Apr 18 11:32:09 <Wizzup> but that's nice
Apr 18 11:32:13 <M4rtinK> no need to have special images for each board & the image dosn't need to have intimate knowledge of the concrete board
Apr 18 11:32:13 <KotCzarny> m4rtink: that means some standard subset of drivers available?
Apr 18 11:32:52 <M4rtinK> AFAIK its mostly about UEFI & ACPI being available
Apr 18 11:32:57 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: a bit like bios, at least to be able to boot, then you can probe and load more drivers, I would assume
Apr 18 11:33:11 <Wizzup> where right now you need a dts to be able to boot at all
Apr 18 11:33:12 <M4rtinK> Wizzup: yep - that's it exactly
Apr 18 11:33:42 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 18 11:33:48 <KotCzarny> so eeprom with dts
Apr 18 11:33:49 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 11:40:38 <Wizzup> Is it possible to downclock the n900 to a very low freq -- IIRC what the pandora board also does
Apr 18 11:40:56 <KotCzarny> 125mhz is the lowest i think
Apr 18 11:40:57 <Wizzup> (Not necessarily in maemo)
Apr 18 11:41:05 <KotCzarny> but is ignored afair
Apr 18 11:41:10 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: I think the pandora could go to as low as a few Mhz
Apr 18 11:41:31 <Wizzup> and I thought it was mostly the same soc
Apr 18 11:43:57 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: http://www.pandorawiki.org/Power_modes#Low_Power
Apr 18 11:44:34 <KotCzarny> suspend to ram maybe?
Apr 18 11:45:11 <Wizzup> That works on mainline, and I am also planning to use that
Apr 18 11:45:59 <Wizzup> I'm working on a design doc (informal) on turning one of my n900s into a nice pda and dictophone, using s2r and the buttons effectively (I think you can disable irqs for quite some seperately)
Apr 18 11:46:19 <Wizzup> I was just thinking of a mode where it is not doing anything except perhaps gps, and then a very low clock is fine
Apr 18 11:46:29 <Wizzup> Since I don't plan on using the modem most of the time
Apr 18 11:58:42 <Oksanaa> Is it possible to download contents of letters to Modest, for offline reading? I just added a new account, and afaik modest downloaded only headers, not contents
Apr 18 12:15:03 <Oksanaa> Congratulations, trying to log modest only gave useless process 11214: arguments to dbus_bus_request_name() were incorrect, assertion "_dbus_check_is_valid_bus_name (name)" failed in file dbus-bus.c line 1070.
Apr 18 12:15:29 <Oksanaa> https://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Stock_answers#Debugging_the_connection_to_the_mail_server
Apr 18 12:19:27 <Oksanaa> Internet is slow, battery is low
Apr 18 12:20:00 <KotCzarny> go2sleep?
Apr 18 12:22:57 * Oksanaa nods...
Apr 18 12:23:24 <Oksanaa> Any help with dowbloading contents of emails, and not just headers?
Apr 18 12:23:54 * Oksanaa got logs by exporting camel, but logs are tedious and seemingly useless
Apr 18 12:26:27 <KotCzarny> look for options that say 'download body/headers' ?
Apr 18 12:30:01 <Sicelo> my modest downloads body. are you sure yours is not?
Apr 18 12:30:13 <Oksanaa> Where? In Modest? It does not have human-friendly options, I think... But yes, it might be that obvious...
Apr 18 12:30:44 <Oksanaa> Well, old account has bodies, new one doesn't for whatever reason
Apr 18 12:31:30 <Oksanaa> I am vimming .modest/cache/mail/imap/account/folders/INBOX/
Apr 18 12:31:36 <Sicelo> modes caches email bodies
Apr 18 12:31:48 <Sicelo> yes, there ..
Apr 18 12:33:03 <Oksanaa> Old account has bodies, even for emails I haven't read (afair). New account only gets a body if I open a letter, and I want modest to auto-fetch bodies, not to manually click through them
Apr 18 13:27:41 <ceene> should i disable ssl2 and ssl3 ?
Apr 18 13:27:48 <ceene> qt4 supports only sslv2, sslv3 and tlsv1
Apr 18 13:28:09 <ceene> 4.7
Apr 18 13:28:18 <ceene> i'm trying to do two things
Apr 18 13:29:11 <ceene> 1.- a version of qt4.7 that simply disables flawed protocols. At least disable SSLv3, which is set as the default; maybe sslv2 too, and set TLSv1 as the default
Apr 18 13:29:50 <ceene> 2.- on a different branch, i'm backporting sll code from qt4.8, so alongside openssl1.0.2 we can use tlsv1.* protocols
Apr 18 13:31:37 <ceene> sslv2 is also flawed
Apr 18 13:31:39 <ceene> so only tlsv1
Apr 18 13:32:40 <KotCzarny> can you make it configurable?
Apr 18 13:32:45 <KotCzarny> even via gconf key?
Apr 18 13:32:57 <KotCzarny> or env variable
Apr 18 13:32:59 <ceene> i'd rather not
Apr 18 13:33:01 <ceene> too much work
Apr 18 13:33:02 <ceene> and
Apr 18 13:33:10 <ceene> SSL 2.0 is disabled by default, beginning with Internet Explorer 7,[181] Mozilla Firefox 2,[182] Opera 9.5,[183] and Safari
Apr 18 13:33:16 <ceene> so
Apr 18 13:33:21 <ceene> sslv2 is more than deprecated
Apr 18 13:33:37 <ceene> and sslv3 is too a well, most servers now refuse to let you connect if you try to do ssl3 initial exchange
Apr 18 13:33:57 <ceene> so... it's not like they a) provide security or b) can be used
Apr 18 13:35:07 <KotCzarny> i think you have answered your own question then
Apr 18 13:59:31 <ceene> qt packages take 71 minutes to compile
Apr 18 13:59:39 <ceene> that's too much
Apr 18 14:14:42 <Linkandzelda> whats the best email client?
Apr 18 14:15:51 <KotCzarny> firefox
Apr 18 14:19:08 <DocScrutinizer05> now that's a funny question ;-)
Apr 18 14:20:26 <Wizzup> Linkandzelda: for what
Apr 18 14:20:37 <Wizzup> for mobile usage? touch friendlyness? security? features?
Apr 18 14:21:22 <Linkandzelda> Wizzup: i tried the regular one, seems it puts a huge hit on my battery life
Apr 18 14:21:37 <Wizzup> when on my n900, I ssh into a server and use alpine
Apr 18 14:21:45 <Wizzup> on my laptop I use alpine and thunderbird
Apr 18 14:21:51 <Wizzup> replace alpine with mutt if you wish
Apr 18 14:22:57 * Sicelo uses mutt right onhis N900
Apr 18 14:23:18 <ceene> all those lack maemo integration :(
Apr 18 14:23:19 <Sicelo> and Modest for EAS email
Apr 18 14:23:35 <Linkandzelda> yea, i'd like maemo integration
Apr 18 14:23:51 <ceene> i'd like a mail client that has access to my contacts, is able to notify me of incoming mail, etc, etc
Apr 18 14:24:02 <ceene> but not modest
Apr 18 14:24:05 <ceene> something usable
Apr 18 14:24:06 <ceene> :P
Apr 18 14:28:28 <Wizzup> Linkandzelda: modest is not bad, it's just that checking email often (being online) eats power
Apr 18 14:32:20 <Linkandzelda> how does it do at checking every 5 mins?
Apr 18 14:33:08 <Wizzup> Linkandzelda: I would say that is very often
Apr 18 14:33:13 <Wizzup> try setting it to once every hour or o
Apr 18 14:33:28 <Linkandzelda> 30 mins i could live with
Apr 18 14:34:26 <Wizzup> try that
Apr 18 14:52:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ceene: access to contacts? notifications? sounds realy simple to implement into any arbitrary mail client
Apr 18 14:53:04 <DocScrutinizer05> etc etc is a tad more demanding
Apr 18 14:58:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ceene: if you're interested in 'contacts' topic: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/contact2
Apr 18 15:04:23 <DocScrutinizer05> also http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/contact if you like it more messy and simplistic
Apr 18 15:22:12 <KotCzarny> can you launch shell commands on new mail in mutt/alpine?
Apr 18 15:39:58 <KotCzarny> offtopic, compiling autoconf1.11, for ~5h now
Apr 18 15:39:59 <KotCzarny> o.O
Apr 18 15:42:42 <KotCzarny> s/autoconf/automake/
Apr 18 15:46:48 <Wizzup> KotCzarny: what are you compiling it on
Apr 18 15:46:54 <Wizzup> Is the date on your device set correctly
Apr 18 15:46:57 <Wizzup> Sounds like it is looping really
Apr 18 15:47:26 <KotCzarny> wizzup, it compiled quick, but fricking make check-TEST is slow and long 
Apr 18 15:47:44 <KotCzarny> and its not looping, just awfully slow on sd card apparently
Apr 18 15:49:26 <Wizzup> aah.. sd card....
Apr 18 15:49:36 <Wizzup> That is the reason I don't buy super cheap arm boards :) 
Apr 18 15:49:42 <Wizzup> The olimex ones have sata at least
Apr 18 15:49:55 <KotCzarny> nah, its super cheap sd card
Apr 18 15:50:14 <Wizzup> I have found any SD card to be quite crap for compiling tasks
Apr 18 15:50:19 <KotCzarny> and it also has sata
Apr 18 15:50:22 <Wizzup> but we went over this last time ;) 
Apr 18 15:50:36 <KotCzarny> but it's my audio box, so it shouldnt be doing any chroot/compiling
Apr 18 15:51:03 <KotCzarny> just the fact i wanted to check my idea of using chroot instead of sb
Apr 18 15:52:28 <KotCzarny> and i could've simply used ./configure && make && make install on that automake1.11, but i wanted to try to build fremantle compatible .deb (to see how correct my idea was too)
Apr 18 15:52:59 <KotCzarny> so it's deb-src of lenny and compiling stuff
Apr 18 15:54:28 <Vajb_> sixwheeledbeast^: just found your ten minute core workout for boulderers and i am curious, if you are a climber as well?
Apr 18 15:54:42 <sixwheeledbeast^> Vajb_: yep
Apr 18 15:54:49 <sixwheeledbeast^> well bouldering
Apr 18 15:55:03 <Vajb_> counts as climbing in my book
Apr 18 15:55:35 <Vajb_> i do boulder and sport mostly
Apr 18 15:56:25 <sixwheeledbeast^> Vajb_: I don't do harnesses, I was dropped abseiling when I was younger and it put me off.
Apr 18 15:57:34 <sixwheeledbeast^> Vajb_: mainly indoor now when I get time but do outdoor occasionally in the summer, sandstone mainly. BTW #bouldering ;)
Apr 18 15:58:36 <Vajb_> hmm i better check that out ;)
Apr 18 16:02:14 <sixwheeledbeast^> Vajb: BTW ten minute core was inspired by UK Female No1 that trains at our local indoor centre.
Apr 18 16:05:02 <Vajb> sixwheeledbeast^: i will try it out someday
Apr 18 16:06:00 <KotCzarny> hrm
Apr 18 16:06:33 <sixwheeledbeast^> cool it's not a popular app but it WFM, if you use the "secure" feature make sure you know your lock code ;)
Apr 18 16:14:48 <KotCzarny> i hate debian build system for being so convoluted
Apr 18 16:21:48 <KotCzarny> automake (GNU automake) 1.11.1
Apr 18 16:21:52 <KotCzarny> i hate dirty hacks
Apr 18 16:22:01 <KotCzarny> but oh-well[tm]
Apr 18 16:23:55 <KotCzarny> on the positive side package built under 30s
Apr 18 16:27:27 <KotCzarny> ffs, gfortran for libtool?
Apr 18 16:27:29 <KotCzarny> o.O
Apr 18 16:39:48 <KotCzarny>  /usr/bin/libtool: line 393: /scratchbox/tools/bin/sed: No such file or directory
Apr 18 16:40:03 <KotCzarny> funsies begin to creep in, time to trip the hedge
Apr 19 02:43:36 <DocScrutinizer05> netsplit?
Apr 19 02:43:56 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ping
Apr 19 02:43:57 <infobot> 1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss
Apr 19 02:50:05 <DocScrutinizer05> ffs, kornbluth split since 17h
Apr 19 02:55:23 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: you're back?
Apr 19 02:57:17 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: ooh, no Kornbluth in your config, eh?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 19 02:59:59 2016