**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 02 02:59:58 2016
May 02 05:32:46 <Oksana> Driving innovation... Get aptitude to work without segfaulting, first. There is so much software in the world that creating new one, to the point of abandoning existing ones, makes no sense. And an example of Unix philosophy: 'dos2unix' is working miracles around here!
May 02 05:41:16 <Oksana> aptitude 0.4.11.11 looks kind of ancient: https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/aptitude Not sure just what it would take to install newer aptitude onto maemo 5, though...
May 02 05:44:02 <DocScrutinizer05> note that RH supports RPM only
May 02 05:44:20 <DocScrutinizer05> now THAT wold be innovation
May 02 05:45:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ~rpm
May 02 05:45:21 <infobot> Red Hat's package management system. URL: http://www.rpm.org/
May 02 05:48:50 <Oksana> Aren't RPM's used somewhere on Nokia N9?..
May 02 05:50:55 <Oksana> Anyway, new aptitude's list of dependencies is ridiculously long. Search engine, libxapian22 , what for?.. I would understand it as recommendation, but as dependency?..
May 02 05:52:22 <DocScrutinizer05> see http://www.rpm.org/ and the OS listed there: "Meego"
May 02 05:52:58 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly you meant that regarding N9
May 02 05:54:02 <Oksana> Likely, yes. Unless Nemo Mobile uses it, too; do not remember exactly
May 02 05:54:47 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't follow Nemo / Mer / Jolla / Sailfish closely anymore
May 02 05:55:13 <DocScrutinizer05> for me the thrill got lost in all that
May 02 05:56:13 <DocScrutinizer05> it turned out it's just another harmattan layered over an Android RIL
May 02 05:56:32 <DocScrutinizer05> not what i'm looking for
May 02 05:57:39 <Oksana> libapt-pkg4.12 is ugly dependency, because it requires libc6 v2.8 (which means risk for everything else that uses libc6)
May 02 05:58:13 <DocScrutinizer05> too much of the "fenced garden" mindset where a company or $entity provides the complete system and you're free to basically develop your fart apps inside, and to choose the wallpaper
May 02 05:58:44 <DocScrutinizer05> not my take on FOSS
May 02 06:00:11 <DocScrutinizer05> or, in short:
May 02 06:00:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ~aegis
May 02 06:00:14 <infobot> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or  http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif
May 02 06:00:29 <DocScrutinizer05> not really, but sort of same mindset
May 02 06:01:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I hoped after Nokia went down, Jolla would have learned and avoid to do same mistakes again. actually it rather seems they try to bring that very concept perfection
May 02 06:02:25 <DocScrutinizer05> no flasher, C'MON!
May 02 06:03:15 <DocScrutinizer05> hah, nice cloak!
May 02 07:39:10 <Vajb> it seems that i can't receive whatsap messages from nokia anymore. My friend said that there was update which stated that messages in this conversation will be encrypted and since that messages sent to me have been undelivered.
May 02 07:40:36 <Vajb> i asked if there is possibility to sent them unencrypted but he couldn't find it.
May 02 07:46:43 <ceene> Vajb: you talking about yappari?
May 02 07:48:02 <ceene> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1503625&postcount=1397
May 02 08:22:45 <Vajb> sure. Only working whatsap client as far as i know
May 02 08:23:56 <ceene> then you're a bit late to the party
May 02 08:24:01 <ceene> go and read that :)
May 02 08:28:27 <Vajb> i've read it awhile ago, but it has working for me so far
May 02 08:28:40 <ceene> you've been just lucky then
May 02 08:28:47 <ceene> encryption is mandatory now
May 02 08:29:10 <Vajb> think i'll look for jabber or something which can send and receive photos.
May 02 08:29:25 <ceene> i'm constantly working on yappari
May 02 08:29:29 <ceene> but there's still work to do
May 02 08:29:29 <Vajb> i can still receive from android
May 02 08:29:37 <ceene> from one particular android
May 02 08:29:46 <ceene> once that user gets the "Version too old, you must upgrade"
May 02 08:29:48 <Vajb> yeah i've been following ur struggle :/
May 02 08:29:56 <ceene> he'll start sending encrypted messages
May 02 08:30:16 <ceene> as a plan B i've found a telegram library written on qt
May 02 08:30:20 <Vajb> if there is upgrade made for it...
May 02 08:30:27 <ceene> that i think could be made the new backend for yappari
May 02 08:30:31 <Vajb> it is old android device
May 02 08:30:33 <ceene> so yappari gui for telegram could be a thing
May 02 08:30:49 <ceene> then he'll face the same problem as we do
May 02 08:31:00 <ceene> from 2017 no more releases for S40 nor old android phones
May 02 08:31:03 <Vajb> she* ;)
May 02 08:31:15 <ceene> whatsapp won't care :P
May 02 08:31:22 <Vajb> cool policy
May 02 08:33:19 <Vajb> im just waiting when they make it illegal to use road if ur car is too old...
May 02 08:33:56 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, I thought that's already in effect?
May 02 08:34:08 <DocScrutinizer05> called TUEV
May 02 08:34:37 <DocScrutinizer05> luckily their policy isn't driven by commercial interests (yet)
May 02 08:34:51 <ceene> i still can drive my 23yo car :)
May 02 08:35:02 <ceene> although i've had problems this months trying to find tires
May 02 08:35:15 <Vajb> and i can use my 21yo
May 02 08:35:22 <ceene> it's insane they require me to use a V velocity code
May 02 08:35:27 <ceene> that's 220km/h
May 02 08:35:28 <Vajb> it can get booze for me already :p
May 02 08:35:31 <ceene> my car won't reach that
May 02 08:35:34 <ceene> and it's illegal in spain
May 02 08:35:43 <ceene> so why the hell do i need V velocity code for my tires?
May 02 08:35:47 <DocScrutinizer05> 'can use' and "make it illegal" are to segregate things, no?
May 02 08:36:25 <ceene> well, mine can physically be driven and is legal
May 02 08:36:41 <ceene> although diesel engines may end up being forbidden from entering city centers in a few years
May 02 08:37:04 <Wizzup> Vajb: They enforced that here in Amsterdam
May 02 08:37:08 <DocScrutinizer05> here only as long as you pass the technical test which is called TUEV in Germany and I bet you got something similar in spain
May 02 08:37:14 <Wizzup> many scooters that predate 2013 or so cannot be used in the city anymore
May 02 08:37:25 <Wizzup> It's great news for people who just use bicycle, like me.
May 02 08:37:33 <Vajb> but nice "problem solved" for phone manufacturers. Let's make all old phones unable to join network if newer model is out.
May 02 08:37:40 <ceene> DocScrutinizer05: yes, it's the ITV here
May 02 08:37:45 <Wizzup> Vajb: whatsapp should provide an update for the phone
May 02 08:37:56 <Wizzup> but it makes sense that they want everyone to use E-to-E encryption
May 02 08:38:00 <ceene> the problem is my car won't pass the ITV if tires aren't a match for what the technical card says
May 02 08:38:22 <ceene> and they've mostly stopped making tires the size my car needs with V velocity code
May 02 08:38:32 <DocScrutinizer05> ouch
May 02 08:38:45 <DocScrutinizer05> V is already quite high
May 02 08:38:49 <ceene> which is insane, as V is 220km/h and in spain the most you can go is at 120km/h
May 02 08:38:54 <ceene> so it's simply absurd
May 02 08:39:17 <DocScrutinizer05> this is not about what you're allowed to go but what the car actually *can* go
May 02 08:39:19 <Vajb> my car didn't pass inspection, but it will as soon as i fix that security hole near back tire :p
May 02 08:39:31 <ceene> well, of course my car at 23yo can't go at 220km/h
May 02 08:39:47 <ceene> some horses have died during these years
May 02 08:40:28 <DocScrutinizer05> though, here you coulds simply stick a (160km/h) round red-white sticker to your steering in the car and have tires that are not rated higher than 160
May 02 08:40:44 <ceene> that would be great
May 02 08:40:53 <ceene> but i think that's not possible here
May 02 08:41:06 <DocScrutinizer05> seen this a lot in the past for particularly winter tires. Dunno if it still applies, though
May 02 08:41:15 <ceene> they've told me the only course of action is talking to a ford dealership and get them to modify my thecnical card so it specifies a lower speed code
May 02 08:41:23 <freemangordon> ceene: you should take a better care for you r car
May 02 08:41:36 <ceene> freemangordon: once my car dies, i won't be buying a new one
May 02 08:41:55 <ceene> i only keep it because i already have it and emotional attachment
May 02 08:42:02 <freemangordon> lucky you, I can't make it without a car
May 02 08:42:04 <ceene> economically doesn't make any sense for me now
May 02 08:42:16 <ceene> i live less than 3km from work
May 02 08:42:28 <ceene> so i always go by bike
May 02 08:42:35 * DocScrutinizer05 heads out for a few service tasks on his scooter
May 02 08:42:41 <freemangordon> me too, but I rarely stay at the office, usually I am at customer's site
May 02 08:42:41 <Wizzup> freemangordon: to be fair, a car is also much safer in bulgaria than a bike... I've mostly not used my bicycle there... 
May 02 08:43:09 <freemangordon> well, I have bike, and honestly see no problems, at least in Sofia
May 02 08:43:35 <freemangordon> the last couple of years there are lots of new bike lanes
May 02 08:44:08 <freemangordon> but maybe it depends on what you're used to
May 02 08:44:23 <Wizzup> I guess so - I haven't seen many of the bike lanes apart from the one near the trainstation
May 02 08:44:30 <Wizzup> Guess I'm moving around in the wrong parts ;-)
May 02 08:44:47 <Wizzup> But yes, in amsterdam bikes are basically untouchable
May 02 08:44:48 <freemangordon> maybe. the southern parts are full of bike lanes
May 02 08:44:59 <Wizzup> (re: depends on what you're used to)
May 02 08:45:04 <freemangordon> :nod:
May 02 08:45:10 <ceene> well, gotta go now guys
May 02 08:45:14 <ceene> i'm doing paella today :P
May 02 08:45:36 <ceene> it's holiday here today
May 02 08:45:54 <ceene> bye!
May 02 08:45:58 <freemangordon> bye
May 02 09:05:15 <zGrr> moin :)
May 02 10:11:31 <DocScrutinizer05> moin
May 02 12:03:35 <abc123> is there any way to disable 3,5G and leave 3G ? Using qt Mobile Hotspot with my operator at 3,5G causes worse internet quality (can't even use IM) than 3G
May 02 12:08:13 <abc123> now i'm using metal rod placed near GSM antenna to worse the signal 
May 02 12:13:10 <Maxdamantus> Do you have buttons that say "Dual", "GSM" and "3G" in the menu that appears when you press the battery thing in the status bar?
May 02 12:14:44 <Maxdamantus> Hm, I think it's from 3g2g-mode-selection-applet
May 02 12:16:34 <DocScrutinizer05> abc123: err, 3.5G is a station capability you can't choose
May 02 12:16:39 <abc123> i'm using advanced interface switcher
May 02 12:17:05 <DocScrutinizer05> like 2G and 2G-edge aka 2.5G
May 02 12:17:41 <DocScrutinizer05> you can't disable EDGE and you can't disable the .5 in 3.5
May 02 12:18:22 <DocScrutinizer05> well, technically you may could trick the phone into not using EDGE
May 02 12:18:41 <DocScrutinizer05> though that's quite hard to accomplish
May 02 12:21:05 <Maxdamantus> So what does it mean when Maemo says "3.5" vs. "3"?
May 02 12:22:28 <auenfx4> umts?
May 02 12:22:39 <auenfx4> hspa probably
May 02 12:23:23 <Hurrian_> 3.5 means that you're in UMTS (3G) mode, connected at HSDPA/HSUPA rates
May 02 12:34:36 <DocScrutinizer05> hspa, yes
May 02 12:34:57 <Hurrian_> also, anyone here played around with microcells?
May 02 12:35:08 <DocScrutinizer05> not yet
May 02 12:35:17 <DocScrutinizer05> at least not officially ;-)
May 02 12:35:32 <Hurrian_> sucks that they're not too useful without a whole GSM core network set up
May 02 12:35:48 <Hurrian_> getting a hold of an LTE eNodeB would be more fun :3
May 02 12:35:48 <DocScrutinizer05> umm
May 02 12:36:10 <DocScrutinizer05> ~listvalues osmocom
May 02 12:36:16 <infobot> Factoid search of 'osmocom' by value (1): rrlp.
May 02 12:36:25 <DocScrutinizer05> welllllll
May 02 12:36:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ~rrlp
May 02 12:36:28 <infobot> hmm... rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP
May 02 12:37:05 <DocScrutinizer05> http://osmocom.org/projects/openbsc
May 02 12:37:31 <DocScrutinizer05> Harald and friends "played" with microcells
May 02 12:37:36 <Hurrian_> oh $DEITY, I haven't went through the massive pile of GSM specs yet
May 02 12:38:46 <DocScrutinizer05> how do you think we get GSM at CCC and CCCamp ?
May 02 12:38:49 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
May 02 12:39:02 <Hurrian_> Fun with a couple of Ettus USRPs? ;)
May 02 12:39:17 <Hurrian_> I wanted to go that route but... money
May 02 12:39:18 <DocScrutinizer05> I dunno what exactly they use
May 02 12:39:29 <DocScrutinizer05> no USRPs anyway
May 02 12:39:58 <DocScrutinizer05> rather real microcell 2W transponders, and a PC for the BSC
May 02 12:40:25 <DocScrutinizer05> transceivers rather
May 02 12:40:46 <Hurrian_> dedicated 2W NodeB's, or RF fed through amplifiers?
May 02 12:40:58 <DocScrutinizer05> dedicated
May 02 12:41:22 <Hurrian_> ...nice, and they got to play with them in open air
May 02 12:42:31 <DocScrutinizer05> https://events.ccc.de/camp/2015/wiki/Static:POC
May 02 12:43:22 <DocScrutinizer05> https://events.ccc.de/camp/2015/wiki/Static:POC#GSM
May 02 12:44:05 <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.sysmocom.de/
May 02 12:44:44 <Hurrian_> oh man, I almost forgot about DECT, despite having cordless phones all around the house (goodbye 2.4G wifi!)
May 02 12:45:53 <DocScrutinizer05> http://gnumonks.org/
May 02 12:46:55 <Hurrian_> thanks, doc! Now I've got a reading list to start my RF hobby...
May 02 12:47:38 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
May 02 12:47:40 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
May 02 12:48:13 <DocScrutinizer05> for RF hobby you also might want to google for rtlsdr
May 02 12:49:06 <DocScrutinizer05> SDR for <20 bucks
May 02 12:49:20 <Hurrian_> yep! I've got mine and I'm hooked.
May 02 12:49:21 <DocScrutinizer05> and they do truly amazing things
May 02 12:49:27 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe aaaah
May 02 12:50:14 <DocScrutinizer05> google rad1o
May 02 12:50:18 <Hurrian_> been biking 'round my neighborhood, tuning around the RF spectrum
May 02 12:50:32 <Hurrian_> ...and damn, did it open up a whole new world of exploration for me ;)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 03 02:59:58 2016