**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 16 02:59:58 2016 Jun 16 03:55:44 hey is the fmms guy here? Jun 16 03:56:13 I'm receiving MMS but every time I send one it shows the blue arrow, but the other person doesn't get the picture Jun 16 03:57:18 I don't know if the blue arrow means it's sent or sending... is there something I can check? Jun 16 03:57:31 also how do I email stuff, I can't log into gmail. Jun 16 03:57:43 not with the ancient browser Jun 16 04:12:22 Modest, the default email client Jun 16 04:12:48 Open-source, too, as far as I remember Jun 16 04:13:09 fishbulb: ^ Modest works nicely with GMail Jun 16 04:15:39 I wonder if it's already on my phone Jun 16 04:15:46 man I'm on the last keyboard and screen Jun 16 04:21:09 after this I'll have to buy some fucking android Jun 16 04:24:19 What about #neo900 or #dragonbox-pyra or pocket chip #chipsters ? Jun 16 04:49:50 fishbulb: I'm going with the Pyra next :p Jun 16 04:51:16 those are all too expensive Jun 16 04:51:26 seriously I have this phone because I'm fucking broke Jun 16 04:53:36 O.o Jun 16 04:53:50 pretty sure there's cheaper androids Jun 16 04:53:56 or even feature phones Jun 16 04:54:47 also, pocket chip is $60 Jun 16 05:05:14 i hope you going to send me Jun 16 05:05:37 echan, sorry Jun 16 05:31:40 fishbulb: modest is installed by default Jun 16 05:35:15 what's pocket chip Jun 16 05:35:34 where's modest? Jun 16 05:37:18 "E-mail" ? ... Jun 16 05:37:47 I tried starting it in the command line and it failed Jun 16 05:37:50 shit. Jun 16 05:38:03 Looks like http://wiki.maemo.org/images/thumb/5/5c/Email.png/500px-Email.png Jun 16 05:38:32 Type modest or modest.launch in commandline Jun 16 05:38:58 modest came up with a bunch of errors Jun 16 05:39:26 I suppose you're still not using cssu? Jun 16 05:39:35 this is normally a bug in some application using the D-B-S library Jun 16 05:39:42 I'm using cssu Jun 16 05:40:02 am I supposed to not be using that or something Jun 16 05:40:17 man this install is years old Jun 16 05:40:53 Try modest.launch then. Not as root, as far as I know Jun 16 05:41:41 segmentation fault Jun 16 05:41:51 what the hell. Jun 16 05:42:33 you're not supposed to run .launch files Jun 16 05:42:48 I mean, it should work out of the box Jun 16 05:43:10 here it is Jun 16 05:43:13 I've never used it Jun 16 05:43:19 and .launcher files are libraries Jun 16 05:43:33 connecting to nokia servers to check service availability.... Jun 16 05:43:46 I have SERIOUSLY never used it Jun 16 05:44:33 Modest is nice, even though I have never figured out how to search letters. Tracker tracks emails, afaik, but haven't ever seen any search-emails interface Jun 16 05:44:35 my account has 2 step auth, can I use it through this? Jun 16 05:44:50 Hopefully, but doubtfully Jun 16 05:45:03 Modest can use SSL, but other than that... Jun 16 05:45:20 there's nowhere to put the code Jun 16 05:46:08 do thunderbird and the likes support 2step auth? Jun 16 05:46:39 not that it really makes sense for a client that's supposed to be always on .... Jun 16 05:48:09 it's failing every time I use an email address that has no 2 step Jun 16 05:49:04 user name or password incorrect. what's the username supposed to be? Jun 16 05:51:40 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=430858 Jun 16 05:52:06 fuck all this Jun 16 05:52:24 Name: "Name you want to appear on emails" Username: "Your email username" Password: "Your email password" E-mail address: "Your email" Account Type: IMAP4 Incoming server: imap.gmail.com Secure Authentication: "leave unchecked" Secure Connection: SSL (IMAP4S) Outgoing server: smtp.gmail.com Secure authentication: Login Secure Connection: SSL Jun 16 05:52:49 * Oksana does have Gmail in Modest, worked for ages, and still works Jun 16 05:55:01 Lol, should work with 2step Auth https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185834?hl=en&topic=1099588&ctx=topic#ASPs Jun 16 05:56:57 Complicated: https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255 How does Mozilla Thunderbird not support the latest security standards? Jun 16 05:58:41 Any way to add https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185834#ASPs https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255 into a guide "How to make Modest work with Google's 2-Step Verification"? Jun 16 06:08:35 luke-jr: screenshot, we will help Jun 16 06:09:07 usually port locations are different, logo is moved/wrong font, desktop screenshot is weird/ugly Jun 16 06:09:35 http://www.ebay.com/itm/121982570243 Jun 16 06:10:42 seems ok Jun 16 06:10:59 i mean, no one is going to use fake so long that keys are worn out ;) Jun 16 06:11:28 but pricy Jun 16 06:11:34 especially its without battery Jun 16 06:11:53 and no box/accessories Jun 16 06:12:38 to make sure ask seller fot the photo of the back without the backplate Jun 16 06:12:46 s/fot /for / Jun 16 06:18:43 hmm, so I should expect a replacement unit even cheaper? :o Jun 16 06:32:23 well, in .pl you can get working n900 for ~25-30usd Jun 16 06:32:34 and broken usb one for 10-15 Jun 16 06:34:09 yours has good screen, but worn keys and no battery/acc Jun 16 06:34:23 so its up to you if its worth the price Jun 16 12:36:00 DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to force bq27200 to reset? removing battery for a while doesn't seem to help Jun 16 12:37:54 sicelo, insert different battery? Jun 16 12:38:41 doesn't do either Jun 16 12:39:17 i don't want to blindy blame replacement-bme (i don't see how that would cause it anyway) Jun 16 14:33:59 Sicelo: i think you need to do a calibration cycle Jun 16 16:29:19 Sicelo: there are commands you can send to bq27200, but I dunno if reset is onre pf them. anyway a learningcycle won't help Jun 16 16:29:30 one of them* Jun 16 16:34:33 Sicelo: there POR (see page 13) Jun 16 16:35:47 and POR is "no effect" when written :-/ Jun 16 16:36:52 maybe this one >> PRST Partial reset. This command requestsin FLAGS. This command is intendeda reset of all RAM registers exceptfor manufacturing use. NAC, LMD, and the CI bit<< Jun 16 16:37:54 damn, pdf c&p Jun 16 16:39:06 Partial reset. This command requests a reset of all RAM registers except NAC, LMD, and the CI bit in FLAGS. This command is intended for manufacturing use. Jun 16 16:41:32 set bit3 on MODE register (0x01), then write 0xA9 to CMD register 0x00 Jun 16 16:45:26 or FRST Bit1 >> Full reset. This command bit requests a full reset. A full reset reinitializes all RAM registers, including the NAC, LMD, and FLAGS registers. This command is intended for manufacturing use. << Jun 16 16:48:38 also interesting: WRTNAC >> WRTNAC is used to transfer data from the AR registers to NAC. Other registers are updated as appropriate. This command is useful during the pack manufacture and test to initialize the gauge to match the estimated battery capacity.<< Jun 16 16:49:14 possibly faster than multiple learning cycles Jun 16 17:38:21 damn! linkedin makes konqueror eat all the available swap and RAM, which *still* brings a contemporary linux system to a grinding halt - even with 60GB of swap which I happened to have activated because of... no good reason Jun 16 17:38:49 I urgently need sane ulimits Jun 16 17:52:08 you need to run konqueror in a container Jun 16 17:52:17 then limit its swap there Jun 16 17:56:33 why not ulimits? Jun 16 17:57:57 (bash) help ulimit Jun 16 18:03:34 http://paste.opensuse.org/45331333 Jun 16 18:12:37 ulimit results in the process getting killed Jun 16 18:12:47 container can force that process to swap Jun 16 18:16:05 err what? Jun 16 18:16:46 killing the process is exactly what I want, to avoid it starting swap hell Jun 16 18:18:02 when konqueror allocates 20GB memory while my system only has 8GB RAM, even the mouse pointer freezes thanks to kswapd activity Jun 16 18:18:59 basically everything else gets swapped out of RAM, to a highly busy swap partition, so even when it might eventually get swapped in again, it takes ages Jun 16 18:19:47 a container will avoid that Jun 16 18:19:55 it will limit the amount of swap and thrashing on other processes Jun 16 18:19:56 ulimit too aiui Jun 16 18:20:24 ulimit is a blunt instruement; a container can limit damage to just konqueror itself Jun 16 18:20:45 I don't see the rationale to run my generic html/filemanager in a container Jun 16 18:22:41 errrr, how would ulimit damage anything else when a) only konqueror is violating the limits, and b) the ulimit setting is konqueror specific anyway ( bash -c "ulimit -4 2000000; konqueror" ) Jun 16 18:23:16 s/-4/-V/ Jun 16 18:23:23 -v even Jun 16 18:23:51 and -m as well Jun 16 18:31:08 it wouldn't but if you ever had a critical page opened on konqueror.... Jun 16 18:52:00 when that critical page hogs my RAM, then it's truly critical Jun 16 18:52:38 the only critical pages i have are pages of ram used by zfs Jun 16 18:52:44 * kerio shakes his fist at the ARC Jun 16 18:52:58 what about network stack pages? Jun 16 18:53:21 i should buy more ram Jun 16 18:53:26 to appease zfs Jun 16 18:53:59 saturn:~ # ps aux|grep konqueror|wc -l Jun 16 18:54:01 38 Jun 16 18:54:05 or switch to raw disk access and just remember where are your files Jun 16 18:54:49 if one of those instances goes mad, I what that instance getting killed, rather thanmy whole system getting killed Jun 16 18:55:52 btw I don't see how the end result in user experience and system impact would be any different by using containers, other than a container separating my filemanager from my files Jun 16 18:56:28 containers might be fine for firefox Jun 16 18:56:59 and actually I already pondered some similar approach for FF Jun 16 19:59:14 what's up folks with yappari? Jun 16 19:59:27 cancelled Jun 16 19:59:35 ceene bought android Jun 16 19:59:41 obscene Jun 16 20:00:34 rip Jun 16 20:00:40 then bb maemo and bb n900 Jun 16 20:01:37 sad story anyway Jun 16 20:49:43 hey! how about applying same trick to kill all android platforms? ;-P create an app and share for free, then tweak it in a way so it only will work on maemo Jun 16 20:50:32 android and particularly whatapp is the sad story Jun 16 20:52:52 * DocScrutinizer05 ponders to actually get a whatsapp account, just to send a logic bomb to all those individuals whatsapp will suggest as "friends" Jun 16 20:54:14 evidently it been those who not only used whatsapp but also shared my personal data to those suckers against my explicit intentions to keep the stuff undisclosed to anybody else Jun 16 20:57:42 * DocScrutinizer05 has further ideas: deploy an anti-recaptcha and a fake option to "log in using your gmail account" that instantly puts you on the blacklist of the service Jun 16 20:58:48 when you can't convince the sheep, segregate and fight them Jun 16 21:00:32 reject all emails from *@gmail as spam Jun 16 21:05:33 for maemo I think we should really try to get a working virtualization solution that allows running complete arbitrary alien OS like android _under_ maemo Jun 17 00:12:52 Like apkenv? Did not work for ages, I think. Or you mean running whole OS, not just separate apps? There is rumoured to exist chroot, but no idea how it works... Jun 17 00:15:29 I mean a complete virualization. like vmware or KVM Jun 17 00:15:40 prolly quemu based Jun 17 00:41:02 A late Nokia technical officer explained the possible new strategy of Nokia phones as having a small linux virtualization host and running arbitrary OS as VM instances under it Jun 17 00:41:21 alas it was too late for this brilliant approach Jun 17 00:42:53 while the concept isn't all new, it was revolutionary for Nokia I'd say. Brilliant too Jun 17 00:58:20 Requires strong processor, too. Because one of functions of VM is to make hardware abstract enough that OS would not need to be ported anew to each and every device? Jun 17 01:11:14 hw abstraction doesn't need strong CPU per se Jun 17 01:11:40 emulating another processor architecture for sure needs a CPU with a lot of grunt Jun 17 01:12:36 but emulating a hw platform only has impact to code that tries to access peripherals that don't exist in the host platform Jun 17 01:13:58 Hmm, so should have been fine. As long as people do not try to put into a VM an OS trying to access peripheral devices not existing in this hardware Jun 17 01:13:59 it works roughly like "code tries to access a peripheral that doesn't really exist, and that causes a software exception that makes the virtualization supervisor jump into a handler that emulates the non existing peripheral" Jun 17 01:14:52 even then the emulation often is on par with the physical peripheral, by speed Jun 17 01:15:22 compare virtual CD vs physical CD Jun 17 01:16:16 virtualization isn't that bad per se, it gets nasty only when you have a different CPU architecture which needs full emulation of the virtual CPU Jun 17 01:17:57 this is slower by factor 5 to 100, compared to the real CPU (and scaled by grunt of the emulating CPU - a 3GHz I7 can emulate a Z80 at speeds that would exceed the original physical Z80 by factor 100 or 1000) Jun 17 01:18:51 create a VM on your PC and run in it whatever you like. Check the speed of the VM Jun 17 01:19:47 it might suck at display access and at network card and possibly even harddisk access, but generally it's not THAT much slower than your genuine OS Jun 17 01:21:51 check http://neo900.org or maemo.cloud-7.de - both are VM Jun 17 01:24:57 yes, emulating a PVR in software for sure would suck bicg time Jun 17 01:25:46 I mean, there's a reason why you got hw gfx accel, not sw driver doing that job on main CPU Jun 17 01:26:35 same for DSP or any other "peripheral" hardware that's not available to the VM and thus needs to get emulated Jun 17 01:27:52 but still, (except for graphics and/or DSP) the 99% majority of code runs on CPU and RAM, bit doesn't need any virtualization/emulation in a VM as long as the CPU architecture is identical (or compatible) Jun 17 01:28:01 Yes, but there are some cases when software crashes with accel enabled, and works but has mouse-pointer moving very slowly with accel disabled. And software developers blame it on gfx driver (which happens to be proprietary), and all other programs do not seem to have this issue Jun 17 01:50:40 yes, though unrelated, this is annoying Jun 17 01:53:44 I know a similar case from audio domain, where twinklephone unlike most other programs didn't work at all with PA's crappy buggy emulation lib for ALSA device, simply because twinkle uses ALSA functions (here: flush_buffer() or the like) that most other audio apps don't need, and so only twinkle suffers form PA's lack to implement that ALSA function decently Jun 17 01:55:30 while most users would blame twinklephone, it's actually the crappy PolypAudio that spoils stuff here Jun 17 01:56:01 and of course "no other program suffers this problem" Jun 17 01:56:59 and users have a _very_ hard time understanding why twinkephone can't fix the issue Jun 17 02:01:50 I guess very similar issues can be found for e.g. gfx accel closed drivers Jun 17 02:05:01 for virtualized gfx you usually have special drivers that are written especially for the virtualization to work nice and with low overhead for the emulated graphics card Jun 17 02:06:10 the better ones of those special drivers could even pass through gfx accel comands to the host's physical gfx accel machine Jun 17 02:07:08 which obviously also is a wide attacj surface for exploits to escape the virtualization and mess with host Jun 17 02:20:43 in case of maemo we have OpenGL-ES as a rather hw-independent ABI/API to the GFX accel, and I guess on Android for OMAP a similar (if not the same) API for GFX accel must exist and offer excellent interface to implement a dedicated driver optimized to work inside a VM under maemo Jun 17 02:22:07 I'd guess the VM penalty for genuine (e.g android) OAMP code to be in the range of a few percent Jun 17 02:22:22 OMAP even **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 17 02:59:58 2016