**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 29 02:59:58 2016
Sep 29 03:00:09 <Oksanaa> 848x480 about camera is not exactly relevant, true, but I am not sure where to find native resolution of N900. Resolution of Nokia's welcome video is probably relevant, and it seems to be 800x480
Sep 29 05:57:39 <bencoh> Oksana: there is no hw decoding support for those video formats anyway, so dont expect it to play properly
Sep 29 07:26:05 <zGrr> moin
Sep 29 07:34:01 <KotCzarny> bencoh: depends on decoder cpu requirements
Sep 29 07:36:08 <bencoh> KotCzarny: do you seriously think you can live decode 480p theora on omap3@600MHz?
Sep 29 07:36:20 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: NOTIFY_SOCKET=/run/systemd/notify systemd-notify ""
Sep 29 07:36:29 <kerio> pid 1 stuck in a pause system call
Sep 29 07:36:32 <kerio> as a user
Sep 29 07:36:32 <bencoh> :]
Sep 29 07:36:36 <bencoh> kerio: yay
Sep 29 07:36:40 <kerio> QUALITY
Sep 29 07:36:51 <KotCzarny> never tried, and tbh, im not using n900 as a video player anyway
Sep 29 07:37:17 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed, no? :-D
Sep 29 07:39:07 <KotCzarny> code quality ftw
Sep 29 07:39:20 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: apparently some folks need to try multiple times for that to break the system
Sep 29 07:39:25 <kerio> yay for race conditions in pid 1
Sep 29 07:39:32 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
Sep 29 07:39:51 <KotCzarny> systemd is an inside job!
Sep 29 07:40:09 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly GREAT: you can't even shut down the system anymore
Sep 29 07:40:15 <kerio> yeah yeah pid 1 gets stuck
Sep 29 07:40:27 <kerio> no changing runlevels or whatever systemd calls them
Sep 29 07:40:51 <kerio> hell, no reaping child processes
Sep 29 07:41:13 <kerio> every reparented process gets stuck in a zombie state once it closes
Sep 29 07:41:23 <DocScrutinizer05> the conclusions in that blog are however the more relevant part in that
Sep 29 07:41:52 <kerio> idk if i necessarily like the `for (;;) wait()` pid 1
Sep 29 07:42:05 <KotCzarny> how come this trash piece of shit got into stable releases
Sep 29 07:42:09 <kerio> "stable"
Sep 29 07:42:20 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: that init won't help you shut down the system for instance
Sep 29 07:42:27 <KotCzarny> named stable, not being such ;)
Sep 29 07:43:15 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Systemd's problems run far deeper than this one bug. Systemd is defective by design<<
Sep 29 07:43:44 <DocScrutinizer05> >>... The systemd developers understand none of this, opting to cram an enormous amount of unnecessary complexity into PID 1<<
Sep 29 07:44:33 <KotCzarny> "Talking to systemd from a Web Browser."
Sep 29 07:44:34 <KotCzarny> ehehe
Sep 29 07:45:28 <DocScrutinizer05> >>In particular, any code that accepts messages from untrustworthy sources like systemd-notify should run in a dedicated process as an unprivileged user.<<
Sep 29 07:46:17 <DocScrutinizer05> >>This is called privilege separation and has been a best practice in security-aware software for over a decade. Systemd, by contrast, does text parsing on messages from untrusted sources, in C, running as root in PID 1.<<
Sep 29 07:46:34 <ceene> on the other hand
Sep 29 07:46:37 <ceene> assert(n>0);
Sep 29 07:46:42 <DocScrutinizer05> meh
Sep 29 07:46:46 <ceene> is assert something recommended to be left on production?
Sep 29 07:46:57 <ceene> If  the  macro NDEBUG was defined at the moment <assert.h> was last included, the macro assert() generates no code
Sep 29 07:47:04 <ceene> The  purpose  of  this  macro  is  to help programmers find bugs in their programs.  The message "assertion failed in file foo.c, function do_bar(), line 1287" is of no help at all to a user.
Sep 29 07:47:06 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, of course every bug can get fixed. Except the bugs in foundation design
Sep 29 07:47:31 <KotCzarny> its a pity that such mole got introduced on leading distros
Sep 29 07:47:39 <ceene> no, I mean, is it considered a good thing to leave assert() on production code?
Sep 29 07:47:43 <ceene> specially on pid 1...
Sep 29 07:47:56 <DocScrutinizer05> definitely no
Sep 29 07:48:14 <DocScrutinizer05> what do you do on an assert(), quit pid1? ;-P
Sep 29 07:48:23 <ceene> that's what I meant
Sep 29 07:48:27 <ceene> the whole codebase is filled with those
Sep 29 07:48:33 <ceene> so any other case of failing an assert
Sep 29 07:48:41 <ceene> will make the same thing happen
Sep 29 07:48:55 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, poetterisms
Sep 29 07:49:16 <ceene> so, it's a matter of spending a couple hours looking at all those assert
Sep 29 07:49:22 <ceene> and thinking of possible ways of causing them
Sep 29 07:49:28 <ceene> i'm sure there are more like that
Sep 29 07:52:48 <ceene> so forgetting to change the umask (which has already happened twice) creates a file that works but is a potential security vulnerability. 
Sep 29 07:52:55 <ceene> that blog post is a gold mine
Sep 29 07:58:20 <KotCzarny> im sad that trash is promoted, eh
Sep 29 07:58:38 <KotCzarny> linux was doing great while it was sticking to 'do one thing, but do it perfect'
Sep 29 07:59:03 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, it is
Sep 29 07:59:06 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Sep 29 07:59:15 <DocScrutinizer05> radioactive gold
Sep 29 08:48:07 <zGrr> what blog post?
Sep 29 08:49:00 <KotCzarny> https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet
Sep 29 08:49:02 <KotCzarny> this one
Sep 29 08:49:16 <zGrr> thanks
Sep 29 08:57:39 <zGrr> yeah. good post
Sep 29 09:02:22 <antranigv> hi all! guys, any way to connect to Hangouts with maemo?
Sep 29 09:02:35 <antranigv> I like xmpp, the pidgin client and the integrated client
Sep 29 09:02:46 <antranigv> but a friend of mine needs hangouts to chat with me
Sep 29 09:03:26 <ceene> the integrated client is apt for one 2 one hangouts conversations
Sep 29 09:03:30 <ceene> it can't do groups, though
Sep 29 09:04:31 <antranigv> it's ok, no need for groups
Sep 29 09:05:00 <antranigv> what's `apt` ? o.O
Sep 29 09:05:16 <ceene> apt
Sep 29 09:05:16 <ceene> apt/
Sep 29 09:05:16 <ceene> adjective
Sep 29 09:05:16 <ceene> adjective: apt; comparative adjective: apter; superlative adjective: aptest
Sep 29 09:05:16 <ceene>     1.
Sep 29 09:05:18 <ceene>     appropriate or suitable in the circumstances.
Sep 29 09:05:23 <KotCzarny> ;)
Sep 29 09:05:52 <ceene> from latin, aptus
Sep 29 09:05:54 <ceene> in spanish, apto
Sep 29 09:20:11 <luke-jr> antranigv: Google is evil and uses non-standard protocols for Hangouts, so probably not.
Sep 29 09:22:14 <antranigv> luke-jr: it did work with the default client, but not good, yes google sux, I hate that people uses 'em
Sep 29 09:22:19 <bencoh> actually ....
Sep 29 09:22:26 <bencoh> there is a libpurple plugin for hangout
Sep 29 09:23:12 <bencoh> it needs a more recent glib-json though
Sep 29 09:23:32 <luke-jr> antranigv: well, Google said a few years ago they were dropping support for XMPP
Sep 29 09:24:10 <bencoh> which it turn needs a more recent glib, which conflicts with the ABI of maemo glib
Sep 29 09:24:35 <KotCzarny> static compile?
Sep 29 09:24:43 <bencoh> yikes
Sep 29 09:24:52 <KotCzarny> sometimes you just want something to work
Sep 29 09:24:55 <bencoh> static build of glib is .... *meh*
Sep 29 09:25:15 <bencoh> KotCzarny: it prolly wouldn't work anyway
Sep 29 09:25:21 <KotCzarny> fmg was fiddling with newer glib though
Sep 29 09:25:22 <bencoh> since pidgin is using system glib
Sep 29 09:25:30 <bencoh> KotCzarny: not new enough
Sep 29 09:25:43 <bencoh> and plugin would embed its own symbols
Sep 29 09:25:51 <KotCzarny> static compile for whole pidgin then? ;)
Sep 29 09:26:07 <bencoh> I suspect it'd fail at load ... unless you play with symbol scope
Sep 29 09:26:27 <bencoh> I seriously wouldn't want to do that with glib
Sep 29 09:26:34 <KotCzarny> glib isnt that big
Sep 29 09:26:39 <KotCzarny> gtk otoh..
Sep 29 09:26:49 <KotCzarny> and the rest of gnome libs
Sep 29 09:27:14 <bencoh> go ahead, enjoy :)
Sep 29 09:27:30 <bencoh> oh and ... it should build in extras as well ;)
Sep 29 09:27:42 <KotCzarny> im porting oscp-remote.py to .c, so im busy atm ;)
Sep 29 09:27:43 <bencoh> it'd have to, I mean.
Sep 29 09:27:51 <bencoh> oh, that's actually good news
Sep 29 09:28:50 <KotCzarny> most functions are 1:1, but some are handled better in python (better == less details to care for)
Sep 29 09:28:58 <KotCzarny> s/less/fewer/
Sep 29 09:28:58 <infobot> KotCzarny meant: most functions are 1:1, but some are handled better in python (better == fewer details to care for)
Sep 29 09:29:30 <bencoh> which basically means "I'll do stuff behind your back and it might change in the futur without further notice"
Sep 29 09:30:56 <KotCzarny> well, those detailed things could change in futer versions too
Sep 29 10:15:11 <DocScrutinizer05> ceene: or simply:
Sep 29 10:15:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dict apt
Sep 29 10:15:19 <infobot> Dictionary 'apt' (4 of 12): at risk of or subject to experiencing something usually unpleasant; "he is apt to lose"; "she is liable to forget"  ;; Advanced Package Tool (Linux, Debian) ;; Automatically Programmed Tools ;; Advanced Photoscale Technology (Brother).
Sep 29 10:15:40 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dict 1 apt
Sep 29 10:15:42 <infobot> [1/12] \Apt\, v. t. [L. aptare. See {Aptate}.] To fit; to suit; to adapt. [Obs.] " To apt their places." --B. Jonson. [1913 Webster] That our speech be apted to edification. --Jer. Taylor. [1913 Webster]
Sep 29 10:15:54 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dict apt 1
Sep 29 10:15:55 <infobot> could not find definition for apt 1
Sep 29 10:16:02 <DocScrutinizer05> meh!
Sep 29 10:16:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dict 2 apt
Sep 29 10:16:15 <infobot> [2/12] \Apt\ ([a^]pt), a. [F. apte, L. aptus, fr. obsolete apere to fasten, to join, to fit, akin to apisci to reach, attain: cf. Gr. ? to fasten, Skr. [=a]pta fit, fr. [=a]p to reach attain.] 1. Fit or fitted; suited; suitable; appropriate. [1913 Webster] They have always apt instruments.     --Burke. [1913 Webster] A river . . . apt to be forded by a lamb. --Jer. Taylor. [1913 Webster] 2. Having an habitual tendency; habitually liable or likely; -- ...
Sep 29 10:16:26 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dict 3 apt
Sep 29 10:16:28 <infobot> [3/12] (usually followed by `to') naturally disposed toward; "he is apt to ignore matters he considers unimportant"; "I am not minded to answer any questions" 
Sep 29 10:24:37 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dict 4 apt
Sep 29 10:24:39 <infobot> [4/12] at risk of or subject to experiencing something usually unpleasant; "he is apt to lose"; "she is liable to forget" 
Sep 29 20:31:02 <Oksanaa> Osso-mahjong might have a problem with graphics. I currently see only black background with white clock ticking and white " back " arrow in top right corner. No tiles, no background, no undo and redo buttons
Sep 29 20:38:18 <sicelo> your memory/swap usage?
Sep 29 20:39:33 <Maxdamantus>  Mm .. "HWRecoveryResetSGX: Hardware Recovery triggered"
Sep 29 20:40:01 * Maxdamantus wonders if he needs a new SD card (used as swap)
Sep 29 20:40:07 <Oksanaa> How do I check it? And it's not like I have many windows open. 2 terminals, one webpage, and this channel
Sep 29 20:41:44 <Oksanaa> And start-up was less than half an hour ago, after changing a battery, so " restart " would not necessarily be helpful.
Sep 29 20:42:59 <sicelo> Maxdamantus: that is annoying .. i've had it couple of times too .. doesn't seem to be swap, but something with the driver maybe?
Sep 29 20:54:06 <Maxdamantus> Dunno. I'll probably experiment later, since I'm at work atm
Sep 29 20:55:25 <Maxdamantus> but the device seemed to freeze at some point other than the music playing through mpd, and after rebooting it continued to be laggy and have visual artifacts and produce that message.
Sep 29 20:56:22 <Maxdamantus> after changing fstab to use a swap file on the eMMC and rebooting again, everything seems to be fine.
Sep 29 20:57:09 <Maxdamantus> I've had a couple of SD cards stop working properly previously though.
Sep 29 21:03:40 <sicelo> interesting
Sep 30 02:32:11 <stryngs> Heya.  Is there a writeup of how to reprogram (temporarily), what the volume keys do?
Sep 30 02:32:56 <stryngs> I see it's possible via the wiki:  http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_shortcuts_and_gestures
Sep 30 02:33:02 <stryngs> Looking to figure out where to poke?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Sep 30 02:59:58 2016