**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 19 02:59:58 2016
Oct 19 03:21:44 <Oksana> Maemo mode? Like apkenv, only in reverse? Sounds interesting...
Oct 19 03:23:49 <Oksana> If architecture is the same (like, armel), and OS is debian-based (Android isn't, I guess) , then you mostly need to figure out the dependencies hell. Otherwise, sounds complicated...
Oct 19 03:27:17 <Oksana> Rubiks package sounds interesting, but exists in sid, not in wheezy. Aka, backporting it to older libc6 and such could be a challenge...
Oct 19 04:02:10 <Oksana> libc6 and libstdc++6 and libgcc1 are the only dependencies https://packages.debian.org/stretch/rubiks Sounds like excellent backend
Oct 19 05:37:59 <Oksana> https://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/mugen-power-battery-backdoor.html Does Mugen exist?
Oct 19 05:39:10 <Oksana> >> Now that BP has done the decent thing and backed out of the Bight << Good news! >> Companies like Santos and Chevron still hold exploration leases. << Huh... https://www.wilderness.org.au/can-you-chip-make-happen?utm_campaign=83d0af196c-GAB_Billboard_C1610GABSAFE
Oct 19 05:59:12 <ds3> yes. like apkenv but in reverse
Oct 19 05:59:27 <ds3> I am find with tar'ing up rootfs from a N900
Oct 19 05:59:50 <ds3> problem is linking up the display - VNC might work
Oct 19 06:00:13 <ds3> if I had time - I'd build it
Oct 19 06:00:29 <ds3> replace X with Xvnc and run things under proot
Oct 19 06:00:58 <ds3> and maybe replace microB with something that sends intents to launch the naive browser
Oct 19 06:01:31 <ds3> if I knew enough, I'd try to setup OpenGLES
Oct 19 06:05:19 <Maxdamantus> I have a feeling a bunch of executables like hildon-desktop, hildon-status-menu, etc have compiled-in knowledge of the particular imgtech whatever GPU is in the SoC.
Oct 19 06:28:28 <KotCzarny> ds3, i think setting up sdk or madde is the closest one, otherwise i would guess setting up some hildon libs (and matchbox for a feel) and trying to recompile
Oct 19 06:29:27 <KotCzarny> unless you want 1:1 n900's experience?
Oct 19 06:31:14 <KotCzarny> and or n900's specific things like dsme or porting maemo to some other device?
Oct 19 06:32:37 <KotCzarny> fremantle porting task force aims to port maemo to completely open system (neo900), as it's recompilable it might eventually do what you seek
Oct 19 06:33:15 <KotCzarny> btw. how to edit things like {{MADDE}} on wiki? it has outdated info and i dont see any way to edit it
Oct 19 06:42:12 <Oksana> KotCzarny: There is Views->Edit, on the right-top side of the page http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE
Oct 19 06:42:20 <KotCzarny> yes
Oct 19 06:42:27 <KotCzarny> i know how to edit wiki pages
Oct 19 06:42:43 <KotCzarny> but how to edit wiki notices/warnings
Oct 19 06:42:51 <Oksana> Hmm...
Oct 19 06:43:01 <Maxdamantus> Template:MADDE
Oct 19 06:43:10 <Maxdamantus> you can see links to referenced pages in the edit page.
Oct 19 06:43:13 <KotCzarny> thx
Oct 19 06:43:14 <Oksana> http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Template:MADDE&action=edit
Oct 19 06:43:57 <KotCzarny> hmm
Oct 19 06:45:50 <KotCzarny> i've edited it using direct link, but i must be blind because i dont see 'views' 
Oct 19 06:46:36 <Maxdamantus> views?
Oct 19 06:46:44 <KotCzarny> thingy oksana pointed out
Oct 19 06:47:01 <Maxdamantus> It's on the right.
Oct 19 06:47:13 <Maxdamantus> under the search bar
Oct 19 06:47:31 <Maxdamantus> Navigation { Main Page, Recent Changes, .. }, Views { Page, Discussion, Edit, History }
Oct 19 06:49:06 <KotCzarny> http://i.imgur.com/FSHAoLn.png
Oct 19 06:49:13 <KotCzarny> apparently missing in this color scheme
Oct 19 06:49:15 <Oksana> And if you are editing a page, then at the bottom, under the editor, there is list of templates being used on the page, and links to templates. Like, from MADDE template I went to http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Template:Ambox&action=edit
Oct 19 06:49:36 <Maxdamantus> Yeah, that's a completely different layout.
Oct 19 06:49:49 <Oksana> Yes, completely different
Oct 19 06:49:53 <Maxdamantus> If you look at it without your session you'll probably see the normal site.
Oct 19 06:50:11 <KotCzarny> might be some outdated theme on the wiki site
Oct 19 06:50:14 <Maxdamantus> Your one is fairly similar to the old mediawiki layout.
Oct 19 06:50:37 <Maxdamantus> (the one used on Wikipedia itself)
Oct 19 06:51:15 <KotCzarny> anyway, thx for you both, ive updated the box
Oct 19 06:51:26 <KotCzarny> who is the wiki admin?
Oct 19 06:52:09 * Oksana has no idea how to add to {{Ambox}} an Edit link, which would be auto-inherited by {{MADDE}}, so that any template would have a neat Edit link without jumping through the hoops.
Oct 19 06:52:34 <Maxdamantus> http://maxdamantus.eu.org/wmo.png
Oct 19 06:54:04 <Oksana> KotCzarny: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team No idea...
Oct 19 06:54:53 <Oksana> http://wiki.maemo.org/Wiki_gardeners
Oct 19 06:54:58 <Maxdamantus> Ambox is apparently semi-protected.
Oct 19 06:54:59 <KotCzarny> http://wiki.maemo.org/maemo.org_wiki:Administrators
Oct 19 06:55:09 <KotCzarny> maxd: that's for general ambox
Oct 19 06:55:41 <KotCzarny> nice. swb has admin rights
Oct 19 06:55:58 <KotCzarny> (also generalantilles, this guy apparently left maemo ;)
Oct 19 06:56:22 <KotCzarny> sixwheeledbeast: ^
Oct 19 06:56:31 <Maxdamantus> Andrew Black? The doctoral student of Tony Hoare?
Oct 19 06:56:33 * Maxdamantus met him once.
Oct 19 06:56:59 * Maxdamantus suspects the one on the wiki will be a different person with the same name.
Oct 19 06:57:33 <KotCzarny> :)
Oct 19 08:20:44 <ds3> just want to run maemo apps
Oct 19 08:21:09 <ds3> android has a lack of usable apps (most of the are just excuses to push ads)
Oct 19 08:30:26 <Sicelo> and this maemo will be running on pc?
Oct 19 08:32:07 <Sicelo> on other mobiles or pc, i would go with one of the main linux distros .. your specification sounds like a chroot should be enough for your needs :-/
Oct 19 08:33:16 <KotCzarny> running chroot maemo apps could modify host system
Oct 19 08:33:31 <KotCzarny> dbus and friends, maybe devices
Oct 19 08:35:16 <Sicelo> sounds like he wants to be running maemo in android or pc to me ... at that level i guess a regular distro is a far better choice ... or something i didn't understand?
Oct 19 10:36:06 <sixwheeledbeast> eh?
Oct 19 10:36:29 <KotCzarny> swb, can you look if wiki style be updated?
Oct 19 10:36:53 <sixwheeledbeast> wiki style?
Oct 19 10:36:53 <KotCzarny> i use 'MonoBook' skin
Oct 19 10:37:00 <sixwheeledbeast> oh, 
Oct 19 10:37:09 <KotCzarny> and it seems to be lacking features
Oct 19 10:37:19 <KotCzarny> ie. no template edit/view
Oct 19 10:38:01 <KotCzarny> well, i can edit template by going through additional clicks
Oct 19 10:38:27 <KotCzarny> but if you can look into if the skin can be updated that would be nice
Oct 19 10:38:39 <KotCzarny> if it requires manual editing then forget it ;)
Oct 19 10:39:08 <sixwheeledbeast>  I don't have that type of admin rights, but I recall a conversation a long time ago with a MediaWiki guy that said our wiki was accient and badly needed updating for extra features, however there was some reason this wasn't easy, prolly midgard related?
Oct 19 10:39:35 <KotCzarny> might be, who can i ping regarding this issue?
Oct 19 10:39:56 <KotCzarny> as its not updating media wiki engine etc, just the skin
Oct 19 10:39:59 <sixwheeledbeast> :shrug:
Oct 19 10:40:05 <sixwheeledbeast> techstaff?
Oct 19 10:40:44 <sixwheeledbeast> I have mediawiki access rights but couldn't update or change features etc.
Oct 19 10:41:42 <sixwheeledbeast> I can have a look later if you can explain what you are trying to do, on lunch at the moment.
Oct 19 10:41:59 <KotCzarny> k, let me know when you have few minutes free then
Oct 19 12:19:47 <Sicelo> incidentally, Microsoft Outlook Web Access loves MicroB and considers it a 'best' client. Android's web browser (at least Android 5.0.1) however gets to only see the Lite version of the site
Oct 19 13:41:47 <_maniac_> that's because microsoft bought nokia before.
Oct 19 13:43:28 <luke-jr> lol
Oct 19 13:47:41 <Sicelo> :P
Oct 19 16:44:15 <sixwheeledbeast> KotCzarny: what's the deal with wiki then? I'm home now.
Oct 19 16:48:42 <sixwheeledbeast> I don't believe it's best practice to modify every page containing tablets-dev. Would make sense to have one page with links and reference that, then if links change in the future again you are not changing loads of pages again. All IMO OFC
Oct 19 17:11:39 <KotCzarny> sf page should stay for a while
Oct 19 17:11:55 <KotCzarny> so its safe to assume not having to change that often
Oct 19 17:12:22 <KotCzarny> as for the change i wanted, there i was missing some features when using MonoBook skin
Oct 19 17:13:22 <KotCzarny> which i assume could be fixed by updating that skin (assuming its independent from maemo and that newer version is still compatible)
Oct 19 17:20:49 <sixwheeledbeast> The best I can do is confirm that I have the same issue with MonoBook.
Oct 19 17:22:47 <sixwheeledbeast> So you are using MonoBook not the default MonoBookMaemo2009?  Which features are missing
Oct 19 17:26:20 <KotCzarny> there is no link to edit templates in default page view, i had to click edit page then go to the bottom
Oct 19 17:26:44 <KotCzarny> might be there are more that i havent seen
Oct 19 17:27:20 <KotCzarny> and im using that particular skin because i need white-on-black and minimal screen estate wasted
Oct 19 17:33:52 <sixwheeledbeast> I have never played with the skins but monobook is awful
Oct 19 17:34:06 <KotCzarny> yup. minimalistic
Oct 19 17:34:57 <sixwheeledbeast> where I am I looking for the missing link?
Oct 19 17:35:12 <KotCzarny> go to MADDE wiki page
Oct 19 17:35:20 <KotCzarny> it has notice on top which is a template
Oct 19 17:35:37 <KotCzarny> in default skin there is a link on the right to edit it (in views)
Oct 19 17:36:16 <sixwheeledbeast> I gotcha let me check
Oct 19 17:37:52 <sixwheeledbeast> they look the same here.
Oct 19 17:38:09 <sixwheeledbeast> oh views
Oct 19 17:40:12 <sixwheeledbeast> It's just the layout of the skin, edit is a tab at the top in MonoBook
Oct 19 17:42:02 <KotCzarny> cant check now, no x atm, will dig a bit tomorrow, thx!
Oct 19 17:42:25 <KotCzarny> though its not just edit of the page
Oct 19 17:43:08 <KotCzarny> would be nice to have a 'edit' link on the top of templates
Oct 19 17:45:58 <sixwheeledbeast> In the default skin the VIews section on the side is the tabs along the top on MonoBook, I have all of them including Admin ones like protect etc.
Oct 19 18:49:29 <ds3> yes, I do want to run a maemo environment on android. a regular distro doesn't cut it. Try using an Xt widget app on a 6" touch cap sense touch screen
Oct 19 18:49:46 <ds3> maemo apps have the widgets tweaked for smaller touch screens
Oct 19 18:50:10 <ds3> as for permissions, chroot requires it but there is proot that can solve the perms issues
Oct 19 18:50:59 <KotCzarny> ds3, you can tweak gtk/qt/other DE themes
Oct 19 18:52:18 <KotCzarny> but apps themselves must be ported to small screen, as in the case of many maemo ports
Oct 19 18:52:52 <KotCzarny> for starters you can try copying gtk theme from maemo to see what happens
Oct 19 18:56:52 <freemangordon> ds3: The last couple of days I am thinking to start porting h-d to some recent distro(most-probably devuan) and run it on a tablet. 
Oct 19 18:57:20 <freemangordon> well, most-probably I will partially reuse smoku's work on cordia
Oct 19 18:58:05 <freemangordon> could you recommend a tablet to use as a development device?
Oct 19 19:04:58 <KotCzarny> fmg: want high performing one or nicely supported?
Oct 19 19:05:29 <KotCzarny> allwinner a10/a20 tablets are dirt cheap and usually able to run mainline kernel/uboot
Oct 19 19:05:54 <freemangordon> KotCzarny: I want one I can boot my "distro to be" without having to patch the kernel to just make it boot
Oct 19 19:06:01 <freemangordon> is that ARM?
Oct 19 19:06:11 <KotCzarny> fmg: yup, a20 soc is dual core a7
Oct 19 19:06:37 <KotCzarny> for devel work regarding porting DE and apps its perfect
Oct 19 19:07:44 <freemangordon> yep, looks like. and it seems avalable for under 80 euros here. thanks!
Oct 19 19:07:53 <KotCzarny> there are cheaper ones too
Oct 19 19:08:30 <KotCzarny> you can look for some second hand ones (rebrands are plenty)
Oct 19 19:08:49 <freemangordon> I don;t really care that much about the price. also, if it has good HW it can be used for other stuff than development.
Oct 19 19:09:10 <KotCzarny> video engine is still wip
Oct 19 19:09:20 <KotCzarny> (for blobless mainline)
Oct 19 19:09:39 <KotCzarny> but if you dont care about video decoding/encoding it shouldnt matter
Oct 19 19:10:32 <KotCzarny> go to linux-sunxi.org and search for mainline support regarding socs
Oct 19 19:10:56 <freemangordon> well, I guess CPU is fast enough to drive h-d, but still, even with missing HW accelleration, it still looks like the one I am looking for
Oct 19 19:11:06 <freemangordon> already there :)
Oct 19 19:11:55 <KotCzarny> also, alternatively you can look for rockchip based ones
Oct 19 19:12:07 <freemangordon> ok, thanks a lot
Oct 19 19:12:52 <KotCzarny> cpu might be fast enough, but bandwidth is limited
Oct 19 19:13:15 <KotCzarny> VE is required to play hd clips
Oct 19 19:13:39 <freemangordon> should not matter that much, my aim is to have bootable h-d based on modern distro
Oct 19 19:13:53 <KotCzarny> ahm, h-d as hildon-desktop, not high def ;)
Oct 19 19:14:05 <freemangordon> yeah, as hildon-desktop
Oct 19 19:14:08 <freemangordon> :)
Oct 19 19:14:26 <freemangordon> thanks for the info
Oct 19 19:14:30 * freemangordon goes afk
Oct 19 19:22:19 <ds3> I don't see the point of running multiple kernels
Oct 19 19:22:45 <ds3> KotCzarny: it would seem to be easier to just run the Maemo environment.
Oct 19 19:23:25 <KotCzarny> maemo env is a dependency hell
Oct 19 19:23:33 <KotCzarny> nokia patched it thoroughly
Oct 19 19:48:51 <Wizzup> freemangordon: I am testing your image now, and it seems to also stop after some time
Oct 19 19:48:57 <Wizzup> my phones are not in R&D mode atm
Oct 19 19:49:02 <Wizzup> so I'm pretty sure it's the watchdog kicking in
Oct 19 19:49:16 <Wizzup> I also tried parazyd's image and that has the same problems
Oct 19 19:49:25 <Wizzup> so likely you guys build the same image, but watchdog is an issue
Oct 19 19:49:31 <Wizzup> I can put one in R&D mode in a bit and re-try it
Oct 19 19:49:59 <KotCzarny> and/or add watchdog kicker?
Oct 19 19:53:56 <Wizzup> freemangordon: works, in R&D mode
Oct 19 19:53:56 <parazyd> freemangordon: got it booted now in R&D mode, with no-omap-wd,no-ext-wd,no-lifeguard-reset
Oct 19 21:28:20 <ds3> yes, Nokia patched it. I am trying not to have to patch a debian setup from scratch
Oct 19 21:30:17 * Sicelo still thinks debian/devuan is way better than maemo for that purpose ..
Oct 19 21:31:04 <Sicelo> you just need to find a DE that's finger friendly ... yes i know linux & finger friendly don't exactly fit well in the same sentence, but there is E17 for example 
Oct 19 21:31:15 <Sicelo> not the best, but relatively useable
Oct 19 21:33:39 <Sicelo> to stick to the 'patching' keyword - yes nokia patched it ... but they patched it in 2008/9
Oct 19 21:40:08 <Maxdamantus> "patched"
Oct 19 21:40:36 <Maxdamantus> it's basically not Debian. The package histories are mostly completely separate.
Oct 19 21:41:39 <Maxdamantus> (they might've just copied sources from Debian packages)
Oct 19 22:04:31 <Maxdamantus> btw on the watchdog thing, in case that's a continuation of the discussion from the other day, I think my system currently boots successfully because I do an fsck on the filesystem (ext4) after starting the busybox watchdog program and before mounting.
Oct 19 22:05:51 <Maxdamantus> iirc, if I just mount after starting a userspace watchdog program, it till resets because the mount generally takes too long doing the checks that e2fsck could do.
Oct 19 23:01:24 <L29Ah> where do i get the clock battery for n900?
Oct 19 23:01:30 <L29Ah> where do i get the clock battery for n900?
Oct 20 00:23:20 <ds3> I am okay with old code.
Oct 20 00:23:33 <ds3> trying to get something working... don't need the latest
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 20 02:59:59 2016