**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 05 03:00:01 2016
Nov 05 07:55:34 <KotCzarny> jonwil: zziplib
Nov 05 07:55:49 <KotCzarny> it allows you to tread zip archives as simple dirs/files
Nov 05 07:55:49 <jonwil> what about zziplib?
Nov 05 07:56:08 <jonwil> I know what it is, why are you mentioning it?
Nov 05 07:56:24 <KotCzarny> 00:28 #maemo jonwil   > I am sure there is something in the repos that can read zip files
Nov 05 07:56:33 <jonwil> oh yeah
Nov 05 07:57:28 <KotCzarny> im using it in oscp to handle zip files
Nov 05 07:57:34 <KotCzarny> so it works nicely
Nov 05 07:57:42 <jonwil> Turns out the best way to go for what I want is probably going to be to get gtfs2db and its dependencies into the repos and use that for dealing with the GTFS data
Nov 05 07:58:05 <jonwil> Pull down the GTFS zip file from the transit agency, run gtfs2db on it then use the resulting sqlite DB in my app
Nov 05 07:58:35 <jonwil> Querying a sqlite db should be easy enough especially since I probably wont need any really fancy SQL :)
Nov 05 07:59:09 <jonwil> I just dont have the skills to do Debian packaging unfortunately :(
Nov 05 07:59:16 <KotCzarny> hehe
Nov 05 07:59:28 <KotCzarny> yeah, that part should be easy, but isnt so obvious
Nov 05 08:00:54 <KotCzarny> you can always include those two libs in your package and compile them in statically
Nov 05 08:01:30 <KotCzarny> and as i've never heard about any of them, no great loss either
Nov 05 08:18:12 <brolin_empey> jonwil: Is SQLite even capable of “really fancy SQL”? ;-)
Nov 05 08:18:20 <jonwil> dont know :)
Nov 05 08:21:39 <sicelo> it has some shortcomings, but for most use cases, it's as good as any regular SQL implementation
Nov 05 08:22:40 <brolin_empey> jonwil: That was kind of a rhetorical question.  SQL database servers such as PostgreSQL or MySQL/MariaDB have far more capabilities/features than SQLite.
Nov 05 08:22:50 <jonwil> yeah :)
Nov 05 08:26:15 <KotCzarny> sooo, run psql on n900?
Nov 05 08:26:17 <KotCzarny> ;)
Nov 05 08:28:23 * brolin_empey retired his N900 in 2014.
Nov 05 08:29:46 <KotCzarny> chicken
Nov 05 08:33:08 * CatButts patiently waits for his celery
Nov 05 08:39:38 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: I am a chicken because I dislike the bad user experience I had with an N900 in Canada?
Nov 05 08:39:59 <KotCzarny> phone wise or smartphone wise?
Nov 05 08:48:42 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: Both.  Many persons who have cellular service in Canada cannot even use the N900 as a literal telephone because the cellular modem used by the N900 cannot use the cellular networks of at least two (Telus Mobility, Bell Mobility, and all of their MVNOs) of the largest cellular network operators in Canada.  I have already discussed this subject in this channel months or years ago.
Nov 05 08:48:59 <KotCzarny> uhum
Nov 05 08:49:02 <KotCzarny> pity
Nov 05 08:52:43 <sicelo> what replaced it (N900)?
Nov 05 09:00:04 <brolin_empey> sicelo: First a Geeksphone Revolution running the Android OS 4.2 on x86 + PCI but that delivered a bad user experience too so I finally bought a mainstream smartphone running the Android OS on ARM, a Samsung Galaxy Note 3 (variant for Canada) but I had to replace the stock OS with CyanogenMod because Samsung actively tries to restrict the users of their non-Nexus models.
Nov 05 09:04:28 <sicelo> cool :)
Nov 05 09:04:51 <KotCzarny> not so cool because of corporate greed ;)
Nov 05 09:05:27 <sicelo> my dad gave me his Galaxy S4 ... i must say it packs some really nice hardware .. but .. it tends to feel like a ... toy :-/
Nov 05 09:05:37 <sicelo> so my N900 is still in constant use
Nov 05 09:06:00 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: The Galaxy Note 7 was reportedly extremely literally uncool. ;-)
Nov 05 09:07:25 <KotCzarny> :)
Nov 05 09:19:15 <brolin_empey> Maybe I should run the Android OS on x86 + PCI on my mobile computer and run Windows NT (Windows 10) on ARM on my desktop/stationary computer to have the opposite of the usual combination. ;-)
Nov 05 09:31:36 <brolin_empey> My High-density 5.25-inch flexible disc (mini floppy disc) drive still works with Windows 10 for x86-64 but I still use an LGA775/Socket T(Core 2 era) motherboard that still has legacy peripheral support such as headers on the motherboard for a flexible disc drive and PATA drives.  Current desktop motherboards for a socketed Core i? CPU seem to no longer have headers for a flexible disc drive nor PATA even though the motherboard may still use a Super I/O 
Nov 05 09:31:36 <brolin_empey> controller IC that includes a flexible disc drive controller function.  I can buy a PCI or maybe PCI Express card with a PATA host controller (and a PCI sound card with a game port) but I have not seen a PCI card with a flexible disc drive controller.
Nov 05 09:32:46 <KotCzarny> i bet there are usb adapters
Nov 05 09:32:57 <KotCzarny> which would make it work a lot longer 
Nov 05 09:33:36 <KotCzarny> i have usb-fdd and it works fine
Nov 05 09:33:40 <KotCzarny> though its 3.5"
Nov 05 09:34:33 <KotCzarny> http://www.deviceside.com/fc5025.html
Nov 05 09:34:35 <KotCzarny> yup
Nov 05 09:34:54 * sicelo still uses same era motherboard :)
Nov 05 09:34:55 <KotCzarny> uh, readonly
Nov 05 09:34:58 <KotCzarny> o.O
Nov 05 09:36:31 <KotCzarny> im using thinkpad x40 ;)
Nov 05 09:36:36 <KotCzarny> and its the best!
Nov 05 09:36:52 <sicelo> i am using that too :-)
Nov 05 09:36:59 <sicelo> love it to bits as well
Nov 05 09:37:18 <sicelo> but since 4 weeks now, hibernation just doesn't work .. 
Nov 05 09:37:19 <KotCzarny> its light, fast enough, with ultrabase allows for nice storage
Nov 05 09:37:22 <sicelo> no ide what's up
Nov 05 09:37:32 <sicelo> *idea
Nov 05 09:37:43 <KotCzarny> linux hibernation or windoze?
Nov 05 09:38:07 <KotCzarny> also, i've replace slow hdd with pata-msata adapter
Nov 05 09:38:10 <sicelo> linux
Nov 05 09:38:10 <KotCzarny> and now it really flies
Nov 05 09:38:18 <sicelo> mine has 60GB SSD
Nov 05 09:38:19 <KotCzarny> hmm, tux-on-ice or swsusp?
Nov 05 09:38:29 <KotCzarny> msata is more versatile
Nov 05 09:38:59 <sicelo> KotCzarny: no idea .. (swsusp/tux-on-ice)
Nov 05 09:39:29 <sicelo> how would i find out what's in use?
Nov 05 09:39:38 <KotCzarny> in /sys/power
Nov 05 09:39:41 <brolin_empey> I suppose that, if I was a far more skilled hardware hacker than I currently am, I could try to connect a header to the pins of the Super I/O controller IC that are used for the flexible disc drive controller function but, even if I succeeded at that, the closed-source firmware for the motherboard may not support a flexible disc drive using the original parallel interface instead of USB or may have this feature disabled in the build shipped by the 
Nov 05 09:39:41 <brolin_empey> motherboard maker.  It might be like trying to use a flexible disc drive with the original parallel interface or maybe even only a PATA(PI) drive without a bridge/converter on an x86 Mac motherboard.
Nov 05 09:39:45 <KotCzarny> there should be some tuxonice specific files
Nov 05 09:41:40 <Maxdamantus> You don't need anything in userspace to do suspend-to-disk in Linux.
Nov 05 09:42:07 <Maxdamantus> just write the major:minor of the swap device to /sys/power/device then write `disk` to /sys/power/state
Nov 05 09:42:09 <sicelo> https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/power/basic-pm-debugging.txt
Nov 05 09:42:24 <sicelo> that's what i was testing (exactly as Maxdamantus says)
Nov 05 09:42:42 * Maxdamantus only uses swsusp on his laptop because it's encrypted.
Nov 05 09:42:53 <KotCzarny> maxd: toi is a bit more flexible/advanced
Nov 05 09:43:15 <KotCzarny> unless things changed in a few last years
Nov 05 09:43:31 <sicelo> the suspending works actually, but when resuming, immediately after loading the hibernation image, the laptop reboots .. haven't figured out why
Nov 05 09:43:39 <sicelo> if there was serial console maybe :)
Nov 05 09:43:40 <KotCzarny> might be intel drivers
Nov 05 09:43:56 <KotCzarny> with toi it was always graphics drivers to be the cause
Nov 05 09:43:57 <KotCzarny> :)
Nov 05 09:44:27 <sicelo> so i can still use/try toi?
Nov 05 09:44:34 <KotCzarny> yup
Nov 05 09:45:53 <sicelo> will try it .. it'd be nice to have hibernation again (battery isn't that good here now)
Nov 05 09:46:11 <sicelo> fwiw, it was working fine before
Nov 05 09:46:46 <sicelo> KotCzarny: the bluetooth, lid switch, and USB ports don't work on mine :)
Nov 05 09:46:51 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: “Slow HDD” is redundant. ;-)
Nov 05 09:47:18 <KotCzarny> brolin, not necessarily ;)
Nov 05 09:47:28 <KotCzarny> 1.8" 4200 rpm drives are SLOOOOOW
Nov 05 09:47:49 <sicelo> the USB problem solved with cardbus. when i feel in good mood, might open up the lappy for the other two things .. just in case
Nov 05 09:49:00 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: Even the fastest HDD available, such as maybe a >=15 000 RPM model, still has a seek penalty that makes it slower than an SSD.
Nov 05 09:49:27 <KotCzarny> yes, that's true
Nov 05 09:49:40 <KotCzarny> but that particular drive from x40 is mega slow even for hdd
Nov 05 10:13:29 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: I already found that FC5025 page months or years ago.  AFAIK, the reason for the lack of a read-write >=5.25-inch flexible disc drive with USB (Mass Storage) host interface as a COTS product is the perceived lack of sufficient market demand for the product to justify the cost of developing such a product and then producing and marketing it, not because it is technically impossible.  I believe the situation is similar with COTS products such as a 
Nov 05 10:13:29 <brolin_empey> motorcycle with a compression-ignition engine instead of a spark-ignition engine or an electric motor or a smartphone with a medium-wave AM radio receiver in addition to an FM radio transceiver.
Nov 05 10:14:53 <sicelo> bleh .. debian's vanilla kernels don't support TOI, and I can't reach the TOI website 
Nov 05 10:15:30 <KotCzarny> https://github.com/NigelCunningham/tuxonice-kernel
Nov 05 10:15:32 <KotCzarny> check this
Nov 05 10:17:42 <KotCzarny> 4.6.0 o.o
Nov 05 10:17:45 <KotCzarny> kinda old
Nov 05 10:18:24 <KotCzarny> there is 4.8 branch though
Nov 05 10:19:25 <KotCzarny> as for information try here http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/TuxOnIce
Nov 05 10:19:44 <KotCzarny> might be old too but has some useful information
Nov 05 10:21:04 <Maxdamantus> So what does it actually give you over the standard swsusp interface?
Nov 05 10:23:11 <sicelo> i'm doubtful it will help tbh :-/
Nov 05 10:23:11 <Maxdamantus> Hm. Reading the Wikipedia article it seems to list things that I'm pretty sure are part of the swsusp mechanism.
Nov 05 10:23:52 <sicelo> looks like here i just need to find out what is crashing the system after loading the hibernate image
Nov 05 10:24:15 <KotCzarny> maxd: i donbt know if it still lacks it, but toi had compressible image
Nov 05 10:25:20 <Maxdamantus> KotCzarny: afaik, you're meant to be able to just read the snapshot from the /dev/snapshot device after making the appropriate ioctls.
Nov 05 10:25:31 <Maxdamantus> KotCzarny: what you do after you've read that should be up to you.
Nov 05 10:26:52 <sicelo> suspend to ram resumes perfectly fine by the way
Nov 05 10:27:05 <sicelo> only suspend to disk that fails
Nov 05 10:28:47 <Maxdamantus> > Some efforts have been made over time to merge TuxOnIce into the vanilla kernel, but these have been opposed by Pavel,[1] primarily (it seems) because Pavel believes much of the suspend-to-disk process can and should be run from userspace (see uswsusp), while Nigel Cunningham thinks this code belongs in the kernel.
Nov 05 10:28:52 <Maxdamantus> Maybe that's the distinction.
Nov 05 10:29:09 <Maxdamantus> all this "more flexibility" stuff refers to teh fact that it just implements more things in the kernel.
Nov 05 10:29:13 <sicelo> which Pavel is that? :)
Nov 05 10:29:25 <Maxdamantus> I'm guessing Pavel Maciek, or whatever.
Nov 05 10:29:36 <sicelo> (uswsusp does do compression .. just checked)
Nov 05 10:29:40 <Maxdamantus> Machek*
Nov 05 10:30:04 <Maxdamantus> uswsusp doesn't do compression.
Nov 05 10:30:10 <Maxdamantus> Userspace tools that use uswsusp do.
Nov 05 10:33:29 <KotCzarny> pavel machek afair 
Nov 05 10:33:39 <Maxdamantus> Yes, it is him.
Nov 05 10:33:49 <KotCzarny> also, is there any howto on using uswsusp with compression?
Nov 05 10:33:59 <Maxdamantus> https://lkml.org/lkml/2007/4/24/405
Nov 05 10:34:17 <Maxdamantus> The howto would be in suspend-tools or whatever you're using swsusp with.
Nov 05 10:34:34 <Maxdamantus> swsusp is just the interface provided by Linux in /dev/snapshot
Nov 05 10:38:58 <KotCzarny> that link is just an arguing about which one is what, how to setup compression?
Nov 05 10:41:55 <sicelo> 12:35 < Maxdamantus> The howto would be in suspend-tools or whatever you're using swsusp with.  
Nov 05 10:44:01 <Maxdamantus> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/rafael/suspend-utils.git/tree/HOWTO
Nov 05 10:44:18 <Maxdamantus> I have a feeling it uses it by default if you enable it at compilation.
Nov 05 10:44:31 <Maxdamantus> otherwise you can pass that option, `compress`.
Nov 05 13:36:56 <brolin_empey> “<sicelo> suspend to ram resumes perfectly fine by the way
Nov 05 13:36:56 <brolin_empey> <sicelo> only suspend to disk that fails”
Nov 05 13:36:56 <brolin_empey> Then replace the volatile memory used as the main memory of the computer with non-volatile memory. ;-)  The assumption that the main memory of a computer as used in the Real World is volatile memory may become false as electronic memory evolves.
Nov 05 13:41:16 <brolin_empey> I guess that the problem in practice of using non-volatile memory as the main memory of a computer is longevity due to the software modifying (writing to) main memory much more often than it modifies (writes to) the secondary storage, which is necessarily non-volatile memory.
Nov 05 13:48:22 <brolin_empey> The academic/scholarly/theoretical ideal of using the same type of memory for both primary storage (main memory) and secondary storage (disk) has already been achieved/accomplished/realised because solid-state drives that effectively use volatile memory as non-volatile memory by using RAM backed by a battery or (super/ultra)capacitor are already commercially available.
Nov 05 14:05:26 <brolin_empey> If solid-state non-volatile memory with the same characteristics such as performance and longevity/write endurance as the RAM currently used as main memory becomes as available and at as low of a cost as current RAM, consumer-level computers can have non-volatile main memory, at least from a hardware design perspective.  It might still be decades away but it will likely happen, like how AMOLED displays are already commonly used in high-volume consumer 
Nov 05 14:05:27 <brolin_empey> products such as mobile computers (marketed as smartphones or tablet computers).
Nov 05 14:09:13 <brolin_empey> Maybe (SO)DIMMs using non-volatile memory are already commercially available?  I have not checked.
Nov 05 14:17:21 <brolin_empey> Maybe computer designs based on RISC V instead of the ARM will even reach production, at least as a niche product for Free/libre hardware enthusiasts.
Nov 05 14:20:55 <brolin_empey> Maybe even rms will carry a computer with a constant cellular connection with him?
Nov 05 14:29:03 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: sicelo: Maxdamantus: Anyway, back to discussing computing in current practice: Why do you need compression for suspend to disk/hibernation when you are using a computer that is probably limited to a maximum of 4 GiB or even only 2 GiB of main memory?  My completely solid-state Dell Latitude X1 with the maximum of 2 GiB of main memory installed has a 128-GB internal SSD;  why bother compressing the suspend-to-disk/hibernation image when it uses 
Nov 05 14:29:04 <brolin_empey> only up to 2 GiB of a 128-GB drive?
Nov 05 14:33:12 <brolin_empey> Because compressing the image before writing it to the SSD reduces the writes to the flash memory?  I guess that could be beneficial in practice.
Nov 05 14:44:33 <sicelo> brolin_empey: i am not particularly interested in compression. it came up while going over the benefits of tuxonice over other implementations, suchs as swsusp
Nov 05 14:49:51 <brolin_empey> sicelo: OK.
Nov 05 14:59:09 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: How do you pronounce your “real” name (joerg reisenweber)?
Nov 05 15:10:59 <DocScrutinizer05> well, err
Nov 05 15:12:16 <DocScrutinizer05> yerk ry-sen-whe-bear
Nov 05 15:17:16 <DocScrutinizer05> s/sen/zen/
Nov 05 15:17:16 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: yerk ry-zen-whe-bear
Nov 05 15:18:21 <DocScrutinizer05> Tesla explodes, 2 fatalities? ouch!
Nov 05 15:21:47 <Vajb> samsung batteries
Nov 05 15:27:40 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, crash
Nov 05 15:27:44 <DocScrutinizer05> http://tech.firstpost.com/auto/tesla-model-s-crashes-and-explodes-in-giant-fireball-two-fatalities-reported-345377.html
Nov 05 15:29:20 * DocScrutinizer05 just doesn't get it why those battery blocks are not employing fuses (possibly with a blow control line to e.g. trigger a micro explosive cutting the wire) to connect the cells
Nov 05 15:30:19 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly a catastrophic electrical short circuit MUST NOT happen in battery blocks, no matter what
Nov 05 15:31:42 <DocScrutinizer05> to make such a block explode like that, you at least should have to pierce every single cell with a nail or a bullet
Nov 05 15:34:18 <DocScrutinizer05> also the cells should be wrapped into sort of foil that turns into foam (and become 50 times as thick) on ~90°C, providing increasing mechanical separation of cells as well as thermal isolation
Nov 05 15:38:08 <DocScrutinizer05> the blow control trigger line, operated much like an airbag, would also conventiently remove any dangerous high voltages from car's electrics, to facilitate rescue measures like cutting the car
Nov 05 15:39:12 * DocScrutinizer05 heads out to his patent lawyer ;-)
Nov 05 16:39:54 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: OK, thank you.  I will try to remember how to pronounce your “real” name.
Nov 05 16:52:57 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: what do you mean yerk
Nov 05 16:53:00 <kerio> there's a g
Nov 05 16:53:12 <kerio> :<
Nov 05 16:53:33 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: no need for all of that when autopilot doesn't crash :^)
Nov 05 16:54:25 <DocScrutinizer05> just that autopilot wasn't enabled and that's WHY it crashed
Nov 05 16:55:27 <kerio> tesla autopilot is pretty shit tho
Nov 05 16:55:35 <DocScrutinizer05> brolin_empey: why would you want to pronounce my name? :-)
Nov 05 16:56:31 <DocScrutinizer05> tesla actually has no autopilit, it has an assistant
Nov 05 16:56:41 <DocScrutinizer05> pilot*
Nov 05 16:57:22 <kerio> yeah but they call it autopilot
Nov 05 17:32:50 <ds3> doesn't it come down to what 'auto' means in this context?
Nov 05 17:33:18 <ds3> auto as in autonmous vs auto as in automobile
Nov 05 18:47:32 <KotCzarny> brolin_empey: hibernate/resume time
Nov 05 18:47:45 <KotCzarny> it really makes a difference on x40
Nov 05 18:47:59 <KotCzarny> because its using crappy pata--msata bridge (~70MB/s)
Nov 05 18:48:15 <KotCzarny> minimizing writes isnt bad either
Nov 05 20:18:56 <stryngs> Anyone in here ever flash with slackware?
Nov 05 20:19:35 <stryngs> http://pastebin.com/uZFgbe6p
Nov 05 20:20:22 <CatButts> flash? I know flash
Nov 05 20:20:26 <CatButts> oh wait
Nov 05 20:20:30 <CatButts> wrong flash
Nov 05 20:20:33 <CatButts> hahahahaha
Nov 05 20:41:13 <janemba> hi
Nov 05 20:42:00 <janemba> when trying to flash my n900 I have the following error : http://pastebin.com/BMhy6feY
Nov 05 20:42:50 <KotCzarny> what is that?
Nov 05 20:42:59 <KotCzarny> cmdline?
Nov 05 20:44:16 <stryngs> KotCzarny: yeah
Nov 05 20:44:29 <KotCzarny> i was asking what cmdline he used
Nov 05 20:44:35 <stryngs> KotCzarny: the initial flash
Nov 05 20:44:56 <stryngs> sudo ./flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f
Nov 05 20:45:08 <janemba>  ./flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f
Nov 05 20:45:10 <janemba> lol
Nov 05 20:46:42 <janemba> what's error code 1 btw ?
Nov 05 20:47:06 <KotCzarny> tbh i dont remember ever seeing 'protocol mk ii'
Nov 05 20:47:18 <KotCzarny> but i might've overlooked it
Nov 05 20:49:57 <sicelo> ovi's offscr backgammon is likely cheating :p
Nov 05 20:50:06 <KotCzarny> lol
Nov 05 20:59:26 <sicelo> the odds are very ... strange :)
Nov 05 21:00:53 <sicelo> i should play it against gnubg one of the days when i'm in the mood
Nov 05 21:01:09 <KotCzarny> or grab second n900?
Nov 05 21:01:41 <KotCzarny> (might even be enough to run in emulator?)
Nov 06 01:25:25 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: To mention my communication with you when I am speaking instead of writing?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 06 02:59:59 2016