**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 23 03:00:00 2016
Nov 23 06:46:01 <zZap-X> i am trying to setup a call divert on my n900 using these codes: **21*phone number where calls are to be forwarded#
Nov 23 06:46:19 <zZap-X> however, the n900 responds with 'unknown service'
Nov 23 06:47:46 <zZap-X> 'Service code not supported'
Nov 23 07:07:04 <zZap-X> http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ is unreachable grrr whats going on?
Nov 23 07:10:57 <princefakhan> https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1519159
Nov 23 07:43:08 <bencoh> silly question but ... why backup/poweroff repository now if next planned maintainance should occur on the 2?
Nov 23 07:43:20 <bencoh> 27*
Nov 23 08:27:29 <xes> bencoh: we need a "cold" complete (zero-thoughts) backup ready to be exported before maintenance in case something else goes south 
Nov 23 08:28:38 <bencoh> I see :)
Nov 23 08:28:58 <bencoh> well, good luck anyway, and thanks again :)
Nov 23 08:30:13 <xes> ;)
Nov 23 16:21:26 <DocScrutinizer05> xes: is repo up again?
Nov 23 16:22:11 <DocScrutinizer05> xes: asking re /topic change
Nov 23 16:22:46 <DocScrutinizer05> err not topic, ~down
Nov 23 16:24:04 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm nope
Nov 23 16:24:15 <DocScrutinizer05> or ganglia is wrong
Nov 23 16:24:37 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Last heartbeat 0 days, 18:40:17 ago<<
Nov 23 16:32:28 <xes> DocScrutinizer05: no, sorry. Almost completed, but not yet ready
Nov 23 16:32:47 <DocScrutinizer05> xes: ganglia suggests some disk full
Nov 23 16:33:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not entirely sure which one and if at all
Nov 23 16:33:46 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2016/11/23/plasma-desktopIf2244.png
Nov 23 16:35:15 <DocScrutinizer05> eeh well, that is misleading, seems it's still some 200GB free
Nov 23 16:36:13 <DocScrutinizer05> those zero-offset diagrams are a tad tricky :-)
Nov 23 16:43:24 <xes> DocScrutinizer05: yep. I'm moving things in a very limited space
Nov 23 16:43:35 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Nov 23 16:44:32 <DocScrutinizer05> please fix ~down factoid or ping me so I may do, as soon as repo is up again 
Nov 23 16:47:13 <DocScrutinizer05> btw my estimation for how long a backup might take been based on time for a xen snapshot, not applicable here for obvious reasons
Nov 23 16:48:47 <DocScrutinizer05> IOW I been pretty wrong guessing a backup of a VM might take 2h
Nov 23 16:50:59 <bencoh> well that vm is particularly huge ;)
Nov 23 16:51:26 <xes> DocScrutinizer05: during the years stage "had" to host various ..backups 
Nov 23 16:56:32 <DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: yup, iirc some 700+ GB
Nov 23 16:57:36 <bencoh> time to clean that up (once everything's back in order) maybe :)
Nov 23 17:00:51 <DocScrutinizer05> I think there's not much to clean up in repo to reduce size. It just *is* that large :-)
Nov 23 17:01:37 <KotCzarny> repo could USE some cleaning
Nov 23 17:01:55 <KotCzarny> old versions arent cleaned up properly (i can see that in oscp case for example)
Nov 23 19:11:08 <ds3> now if the repo was on a netapp filer or something that does snapshots....
Nov 23 19:34:26 <zZap-X> for some reason i cannot resolve: http://repository.maemo.org/ ?
Nov 23 19:34:32 <zZap-X> can anybody else resolve it?
Nov 23 19:35:35 <KotCzarny> see topic?
Nov 23 19:36:09 <zZap-X> ohhh
Nov 23 19:37:26 <zZap-X> the link is about a coding competition?
Nov 23 19:40:20 <zZap-X> oh your swapping hardware
Nov 23 19:41:07 <zZap-X> i wonder if there are other mirrors in the world
Nov 23 19:41:44 <KotCzarny> just wait few hours/days?
Nov 23 19:41:57 <zZap-X> aye ok
Nov 23 19:42:14 <zZap-X> all i need is the star hash function so i can divert calls
Nov 23 19:42:21 <zZap-X> maybe i could just download the package for now
Nov 23 20:12:51 <xes> #Maintenance Notice: stage (repository) is up and running
Nov 23 20:16:33 <zZap-X> awesome!!!
Nov 23 20:16:50 <zZap-X> its back!!!
Nov 23 20:16:56 * zZap-X feels excited
Nov 23 20:20:15 <zZap-X> works perfect
Nov 23 20:29:12 <zZap-X> set up a call divert from nokia n900 to android phone for when im not using the n900 :D
Nov 23 20:29:15 <zZap-X> works perfect
Nov 23 20:29:31 <zZap-X> this is a bit like having 2x sims
Nov 23 20:29:56 <zZap-X> divert is free too because both phones are on same network :D
Nov 23 20:54:11 <badcloud-> are the official maemo repos down?
Nov 23 20:56:30 <badcloud-> ah sorry, just noticed topic
Nov 23 21:06:08 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: no, #maemo down is "SERVICE DOWNTIME til 2016-11-27, see /topic, see https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1519159, TL;DR one blade broken, needs hardware swap. So wiki, bugs, a few more are down. | Wiki mirror at http://web.archive.org/web/20161108115528/http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page
Nov 23 21:06:11 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: okay
Nov 23 21:06:21 <DocScrutinizer05> xes: many thanks!
Nov 23 21:06:56 <bencoh> <3
Nov 23 21:08:01 <DocScrutinizer05> ~down
Nov 23 21:08:02 <infobot> somebody said down was "SERVICE DOWNTIME til 2016-11-27, see /topic, see https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1519159, TL;DR one blade broken, needs hardware swap. So wiki, bugs, a few more are down. | Wiki mirror at http://web.archive.org/web/20161108115528/http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page
Nov 23 21:19:03 <xes> DocScrutinizer05: yw
Nov 23 21:20:34 <bencoh> not sure I got it though ... did you migrate the vm?
Nov 23 21:20:45 <DocScrutinizer05> what is this "replace PSU" stuff all about?
Nov 23 21:21:05 <bencoh> hm I guess I could read the thread
Nov 23 21:21:16 <DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: techstaff made a full backup of repo VM
Nov 23 21:21:52 <DocScrutinizer05> for doing si, the VM needs to get stopped
Nov 23 21:21:55 <DocScrutinizer05> so*
Nov 23 21:23:44 <xes> DocScrutinizer05: there is no detailed plan. Our kind of hardware seems to have a long story of problems. I think we will have to consider some proactive action (that at the moment is not yet possible to define)
Nov 23 21:25:02 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: but once it's started, backup is no longer uptodate
Nov 23 21:25:24 <bencoh> so I don't understand why you'd have to stop a vm to make a then outdated backup
Nov 23 21:26:21 <bencoh> doing an lvm snapshot (to "freeze" device at a coherent state) and backup (dd) the resulting device would have been as good (?)
Nov 23 21:26:24 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, "why do you want me to tell you about which time it is? this is constantly changing and the moment you hear what I say it'S already obsolete" ;-P
Nov 23 21:26:48 <bencoh> I'm just trying to understand, maybe I missed something there :)
Nov 23 21:27:01 <bencoh> (and thanks again!)
Nov 23 21:27:07 <DocScrutinizer05> those a VM disk images, of 700GB size
Nov 23 21:27:26 <bencoh> DocScrutinizer05: so?
Nov 23 21:27:57 <DocScrutinizer05> so the general aproach and best practice is to stop the VM before you copy the VM's disk image
Nov 23 21:28:16 <DocScrutinizer05> but whatever, ask xes. I'm not involved
Nov 23 21:29:16 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd think when xes takes down a VM then there's sound reason for doing so
Nov 23 21:29:31 <bencoh> 23:26 < bencoh> I'm just trying to understand, maybe I missed something there :)
Nov 23 21:30:32 <bencoh> and I'm not the one working on it so I wouldn't blame/criticize anyway, just talking tech :)
Nov 23 21:30:40 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess the point being this is an external backup (in xen host), not a backup in system of VM
Nov 23 21:31:41 <DocScrutinizer05> just one 700GB+ file to get copied from local storage to somewhere else
Nov 23 21:32:27 <bencoh> btw if I were to mirror extras*/community*, how much space woud I need? 200G?
Nov 23 21:32:28 <DocScrutinizer05> a lvm snapshot possibly would require massive resources and not work any faster
Nov 23 21:33:51 <DocScrutinizer05> I never looked into lvm and how it manages snapshots though
Nov 23 21:34:38 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway even *if* it could get done, the snapshot still would be that of a live system, not a shut down system
Nov 23 21:34:44 <bencoh> it keeps a COW table
Nov 23 21:35:05 <bencoh> meaning you can keep writing to device while retaining snapshot
Nov 23 21:35:39 <DocScrutinizer05> generally you need VM disk images of powered down VM
Nov 23 21:36:02 <bencoh> (actually it is a reverse-COW table, meaning that main device will get written to, and "snap" device will result of main device + reversed-writes)
Nov 23 21:36:07 <DocScrutinizer05> no good style to load and start a live system into a VM
Nov 23 21:37:08 <bencoh> anyway :)
Nov 23 21:37:27 <bencoh> so ... how large is extras*/community*?
Nov 23 21:40:27 <slobber> i can't believe maemo is still alive! holy crap!
Nov 23 21:40:46 <bencoh> it is ! <3
Nov 23 21:41:00 <slobber> i had an n810 back in.. 09, must've been
Nov 23 21:41:22 <slobber> which i sold in 11 and got a wimax n810 about a year ago on a drunken night
Nov 23 21:41:33 <KotCzarny> it didnt lose its usefulness, and planned obsolete which rules the electronics now, just sucks
Nov 23 21:41:57 <KotCzarny> get n900, they are cheap. (assuming you like linux phone)
Nov 23 21:42:17 <slobber> i have a moto x pure that i love getting mad at
Nov 23 21:42:52 <slobber> also, wasn't all that happy with maemo back then
Nov 23 21:43:10 <KotCzarny> then why did you come back?
Nov 23 21:43:23 <xes> bencoh: ~1.4TB we need a zero-thoughts backup that could be migrated anywhere
Nov 23 21:44:02 <bencoh> I see
Nov 23 21:44:03 <slobber> KotCzarny: dug out my old n810, thought maybe i'd give it another try
Nov 23 21:44:05 <slobber> somehow
Nov 23 21:44:19 <slobber> last i looked into it the repos were dead or something? 
Nov 23 21:44:20 <KotCzarny> do you use it as audio player?
Nov 23 21:44:30 <KotCzarny> see topic regarding repos and maemo.org in general
Nov 23 21:44:31 <bencoh> slobber: nokia's repo are
Nov 23 21:44:32 <slobber> no, should i be? i have a fiio i'm pretty ok with
Nov 23 21:44:40 <slobber> ok topic is gonna be super helpful
Nov 23 21:44:48 <KotCzarny> ie. maintenance
Nov 23 21:44:52 <slobber> oh boy
Nov 23 21:44:56 <slobber> "forever maintenance
Nov 23 21:44:57 <slobber> "? 
Nov 23 21:45:03 <bencoh> nah not forever
Nov 23 21:45:17 <KotCzarny> as for nokia repos you need to replace them with a mirror
Nov 23 21:45:17 <slobber> oh you mean yours are under maintenance
Nov 23 21:45:23 <slobber> yeah, gotcha
Nov 23 21:45:36 <bencoh> KotCzarny: I never mirrored maemo for n810, unfortunately :(
Nov 23 21:45:49 <bencoh> and I don't think there is a public mirror for n810
Nov 23 21:45:53 <slobber> oh
Nov 23 21:46:02 <KotCzarny> i though i saw some n8x0 repos on your mirror, hum
Nov 23 21:46:04 <slobber> so you only have n900 mirrored? 
Nov 23 21:46:18 <KotCzarny> i have n8x0 repos partially mirrored
Nov 23 21:46:32 <bencoh> slobber: for the previously-nokia-hosted part, yes
Nov 23 21:46:42 <slobber> ah
Nov 23 21:46:48 <bencoh> slobber: the community mirrors (extras, for instance) are still up&running
Nov 23 21:47:06 <KotCzarny> mirrors.muarf.org uses an invalid security certificate.
Nov 23 21:47:11 <KotCzarny> (Error code: sec_error_cert_signature_algorithm_disabled)
Nov 23 21:47:14 <KotCzarny> bencoh: ^
Nov 23 21:47:17 <bencoh> it's not invalid, it's cacert ...
Nov 23 21:47:28 <bencoh> mozilla just displays a shitty error
Nov 23 21:47:30 <bencoh> ....
Nov 23 21:47:32 <KotCzarny> :)
Nov 23 21:47:59 <bencoh> seriously I don't understand why it display "disabled alg" while it just doesn't know the rootca
Nov 23 21:48:06 <bencoh> this is silly
Nov 23 21:48:19 <KotCzarny> something fallbacks?
Nov 23 21:48:25 <bencoh> ?
Nov 23 21:48:53 <bencoh> KotCzarny: btw you're supposed to use maemo.muarf.Org, not mirrors.muarf.org
Nov 23 21:49:06 <KotCzarny> bencoh: first link on google ;)
Nov 23 21:49:20 <bencoh> ah shit :)
Nov 23 21:52:15 <KotCzarny> bencoh, want to grab my diablo copy? (probably old but better than nothing i guess)
Nov 23 21:53:05 <KotCzarny> 150M in catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com and 2.7G in repository.maemo.org
Nov 23 21:53:38 <KotCzarny> though for repository its chinook, oh well
Nov 23 21:54:07 <bencoh> is that a real/full diablo copy?
Nov 23 21:54:24 <bencoh> (I remember seeing something around on the internet but I don't think it was complete)
Nov 23 21:54:25 <KotCzarny> who knows, most likely done with wget (it was in 2008, i dont remember)
Nov 23 21:54:43 <bencoh> KotCzarny: good enough for nokia's repo you know ;)
Nov 23 21:54:43 <KotCzarny> though i see diablo in updates subdir
Nov 23 21:55:57 <slobber> i shouldn't buy an n900
Nov 23 21:56:08 <slobber> it's just not a good phone these days
Nov 23 21:56:18 <KotCzarny> its a good PHONE
Nov 23 21:56:25 <bencoh> it's not that bad as a phone
Nov 23 21:56:31 <slobber> but i do wish there was a new phone of that style.. just, better screen, thinner, better camera etc
Nov 23 21:56:41 <KotCzarny> see neo900
Nov 23 21:56:44 <slobber> is it bad as a pooter? 
Nov 23 21:56:46 <slobber> looking, KotCzarny 
Nov 23 21:56:51 <KotCzarny> ~neo900
Nov 23 21:56:52 <infobot> hmm... neo900 is at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142, or at http://neo900.org/
Nov 23 21:57:00 <bencoh> and it's still great as a pocket linux or pocket communicator (hw keyboard inside)
Nov 23 21:57:28 <slobber> ohhh i think i've run into this ebfore actually
Nov 23 21:57:59 <slobber> oh, that's not cheap either but i ugess that's crowd funding for you
Nov 23 21:58:29 <sicelo> and is a little thicker than N900
Nov 23 21:58:41 <KotCzarny> it uses n900 chassis
Nov 23 21:58:58 <enyc> neo900 will start a crowdfunding properly early next year if proto_v2 successful as expected
Nov 23 21:59:03 <KotCzarny> so unless something sticks magically out, it should be the same in size
Nov 23 21:59:07 <enyc> all described on the news posted on  neo900.org
Nov 23 21:59:26 <slobber> hmmm okay
Nov 23 22:00:34 <enyc> in PCB layout this week aiui
Nov 23 22:00:36 <sicelo> it has an additional 'thing' between the two halves that makes it thick
Nov 23 22:00:42 <sicelo> *thicker
Nov 23 22:01:07 <sicelo> i forgot what it's for .. but remember Neo has an extra PCB as well .. 
Nov 23 22:01:42 <enyc> sicelo: thats exactly it, spacer frame to allow extra layer and fit everything in sensibly.  hackerbus extra circut can be connected and soforth
Nov 23 22:02:07 <DocScrutinizer05> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/mission-improbable-hardening-android-security-and-privacy
Nov 23 22:03:21 <DocScrutinizer05> spacerframe is just for the added height of PCB sandwich
Nov 23 22:05:01 <DocScrutinizer05> http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/ccc2015talk/neo900-wpwrak_CCC2015.webm 13:30...
Nov 23 22:06:31 <slobber> alright tonight i'm gonna give another try to putting gentoo on my n810
Nov 23 22:06:43 <slobber> last time plenty of issues arose, but i don't remember which
Nov 23 22:07:54 <DocScrutinizer05> http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/ccc2015talk/talk.pdf#13
Nov 23 22:08:44 <DocScrutinizer05> slobber: with gentoo (or any other fgeneric OS) your worst nightmare on N810 is battery management aka charging
Nov 23 22:09:00 <DocScrutinizer05> -f
Nov 23 22:09:06 <slobber> oh yeah? 
Nov 23 22:09:22 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, since it dos sw charging, with a blob
Nov 23 22:10:00 <slobber> omg that's some shit
Nov 23 22:10:13 <slobber> yeah im' certainly going to enjoy that
Nov 23 22:20:34 <jonwil> I think the hardware of most Android phones and the way it all works (cellular radio bits, Arm TrustZone, secret stuff etc) means a pure software solution for making it secure or private just isn't possible. N900 and Neo900 on the other hand have none of that.
Nov 23 22:34:11 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
Nov 23 22:35:37 <DocScrutinizer05> in basically all recent smartphones, the "modem" is the supervisor and the "linux" system a DomU, in virtualization speak
Nov 23 22:36:27 <DocScrutinizer05> and that's done for mere cost and size reasons, based on the assumption that "modem" firmware is OK per definition since the manuf made it
Nov 23 22:37:26 <DocScrutinizer05> just like in early 2G GSM every base station been considered OK since... supposedly nobody ever would build a rogue BTS
Nov 23 22:38:38 <DocScrutinizer05> Osmocom demonstrated that this assumption is terribly incorrect for base stations. Then Chinal followed where they meanwhile do war driving with rogue BTS
Nov 23 22:38:50 <DocScrutinizer05> China*
Nov 23 22:40:09 <jonwil> Even the latest cellular standards have zero security against rogue operators (and since those fake base stations the FBI and NSA are using would be "rogue operators" from the point of view of the network, that will likely never change)
Nov 23 22:41:06 <KotCzarny> jonwil, theoretically you need permission to transmit at certain wattage/frequency
Nov 23 22:41:23 <KotCzarny> but it doesnt protect you from bad people.
Nov 23 22:44:18 <jonwil> Of course if you are really paranoid the best way to go is to use an off-the-shelf cellular modem and data plan and run an open hardware trusted device talking to that with a VPN on it that encrypts everything so the cellular companies (and any law enforcement or intelligence agencies or other bad actors listening in) cant get anything useful.
Nov 23 22:44:57 <jonwil> The way things are going around the world though more and more countries are trying to make that kind of stuff illegal for exactly that reason (stopping all the spying and crap)
Nov 23 22:45:03 <jonwil> Look at what the UK recently did
Nov 23 22:45:27 <jonwil> And there are rumors that Trump wants the same in the USA (whether he can get it is another matteR)
Nov 23 22:47:57 <DocScrutinizer05> jonwil: what is it UK did?
Nov 23 22:52:18 <DocScrutinizer05> btw the funny part in this topic: all security concerned projects like blackphone, cryptophone, even Tor (see link above), once they get aware of the basic problem with supervisor firmware, suggest auditing of that firmware. This is a red herring since a) that firmware is several dozen MB binary in size, pretty much similar in size and complexity to a full linux system, and b) you *never* know when such firmware in modem gets exploited or 
Nov 23 22:52:19 <DocScrutinizer05> updated Over The Air so all your audit results are moot in a matter of seconds
Nov 23 22:55:07 <jonwil> UK passed laws that (according to whats being said) ban encryption that the government cant get into
Nov 23 22:55:18 <jonwil> all in the name of stopping the "bad guys" (whoever they are)
Nov 23 22:55:29 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Nov 23 22:55:59 <jonwil> Also something about requiring everyone to keep records of all the sites you visit and stuff or something
Nov 23 22:56:24 <KotCzarny> what is funny is that nazis had similar 'you dont have to be afraid if you have nothing to hide' program ;)
Nov 23 22:57:30 <jonwil> the worst thing is that the idiot sheeple actually think all this crap is going to somehow make them safer (when at the very best it might do nothing and at worst it would make them less safe)
Nov 23 22:57:44 <DocScrutinizer05> this is a double-trick. It pretends to do something against terrorism so the gvmt looks good, and it tries to suggest to terrorists and criminals there would be "encryption that is not crack-able by authorities" so they might feel save in using those "outlawed" encryption mechanisms
Nov 23 23:05:55 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny has Godwinised the conversation.
Nov 23 23:06:21 <sixwheeledbeast> Uk hasn't banned encryption AFAIK. There was talk about trying to do that, but many rightly argued that if the gvmt can access then others could too.
Nov 23 23:08:23 <sixwheeledbeast> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encryption_ban_proposal_in_the_United_Kingdom
Nov 23 23:09:37 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: that's the usual result of any such movement, when a minimum of competence and common sense has a saying in the decision process
Nov 23 23:10:12 <DocScrutinizer05> we seen the exactly same discussion a half a dozen times already, in France and whoknowswhere else
Nov 23 23:12:30 <sixwheeledbeast> Ah I thought it was dropped but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016
Nov 23 23:13:39 <sixwheeledbeast> Oh well Tor Browser it is then.
Nov 23 23:15:49 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc PGP been outlawed in France for a few years, maybe a decade ago. It's questionable how to enforce any such law, as well as its efficiency towards the planned purpose
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 24 03:00:00 2016