**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 02 03:00:00 2017 Jan 02 16:09:43 pali, freemangordon: GET DECENT MAIL PROVIDER!! GMAIL SUCKS!! Jan 02 16:10:07 hmm? Jan 02 16:11:09 http://paste.opensuse.org/85232339 Jan 02 16:11:52 cute. I have one more mail address, you should know it Jan 02 16:14:16 tell that pali Jan 02 16:18:22 anyway find my replies on the MLs Jan 02 16:21:28 yep Jan 02 16:23:14 maybe openkomo.org is abused by someone Jan 02 16:23:41 or someone sends mails directly instead of ml Jan 02 17:19:46 also, pasting ivo's email address onto pastebin service and posting the link on irc which in effect becomes publicly visible for spam bots? Jan 02 17:20:24 unless done to discourage him from using that account, heh Jan 02 17:20:46 oroh, joerg's email is also in that pastebin Jan 02 17:20:52 *otoh Jan 02 17:23:01 :p Jan 02 17:23:47 http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=138730321007281&w=2 Jan 02 17:24:23 I'm no jackass Jan 02 17:24:48 "I am very reluctant in letting device trees specify exports of GPIOs to userspace" he's quite right, btw Jan 02 17:24:57 dunno about this specific case, but ... **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 02 17:27:43 2017 Jan 02 17:33:24 however this licky find shows nicely why it's a pretty poor idea to have too platform specific stuff getting handled in kernel space. You generally cannot cope with all arbitrarily wicked hw dependencies and concepts in kernel in a generalized generic manner Jan 02 17:34:01 unless you run your own platform specific kernel which is my preferred approach Jan 02 17:34:17 DocScrutinizer05: he is talking about devicetree Jan 02 17:34:25 a general purpose kernel is bloatware, inevitably Jan 02 17:34:40 which isn't part of the kernel, strictly speaking Jan 02 17:34:42 bencoh: I know Jan 02 17:34:54 only one aspect of kernel space handling of hw Jan 02 17:35:06 something like that Jan 02 17:35:38 but still platform-specific by design Jan 02 17:35:50 well, linux/unix had a great idea, everything is a file, simplifying all those device specifics into simple open/read/write/close Jan 02 17:36:04 it takes me 10 minutes to xome up with 5 weird but RL examples for hw that simply can't get handled by any known kernel concepts Jan 02 17:36:08 KotCzarny: and we eventually ended up with ... ioctl ;) Jan 02 17:36:28 bencoh, unfortunatelly Jan 02 17:36:33 except "specific device driver" Jan 02 17:37:20 a DT is always a *massive* abstraction of what's physically there in real device hw Jan 02 17:37:56 an abstraction is defined as ignoring minor details to generalize Jan 02 17:38:37 it may work as long as those ignored minor details are irrelevant or at least negligible Jan 02 18:01:44 or as long interface is sensibly designed and not made for totaly differnt use case Jan 02 18:01:57 *totally Jan 02 19:21:41 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N9#Reception *sigh* Jan 02 19:24:47 NeoN9 tomorrow? Jan 02 19:24:48 :P Jan 02 19:31:35 technically Neo900 is more a N9 than a N900 ;-) Jan 02 19:32:13 at least it hase same CPU and same memory as N9 Jan 02 19:32:18 has* Jan 02 19:33:40 OMAP3630 with 1GB of RAM (512MB NAND) Jan 02 19:34:22 well, Neo900 has OMAP3730 which is a 3630 without the HS crap Jan 02 19:34:42 :D Jan 02 19:36:51 but Nokia failed so epically with actually using opportunities they had with N9/HARM Jan 02 19:36:57 it's like suicide Jan 02 19:37:07 many thanks Elop! Jan 02 19:37:24 money talks Jan 02 19:39:43 then OTOH you could argue that Jolla was the legitimate successor and they pretty much failed in picking up either Jan 02 19:41:16 money talks Jan 02 19:41:34 not enough marketing/selling power Jan 02 19:41:45 in my book mostly thanks to ignoring the mess in N9 from above mentioned HS crap and the Aegis annoyance that based on it, and not learning from it so they fell into another pitfall of basically identicall type with their snapdragon Jan 02 19:41:52 i had such high hopes from Jolla, but didn't even buy it after i read some user opinions Jan 02 19:43:20 and also they didn't learn from the ~closed mess in maemo and HARM and instead of improving on that aspect that always been flawed in Nokia, they done even worse Jan 02 19:43:39 at least that's my perception of the story Jan 02 19:44:47 seriously, how many geeks are really opensource conscious? and at the same time having enough buying power to float such open platform? Jan 02 19:45:13 regular joe wouldnt chose phone just based on that Jan 02 19:56:03 i wouldn't mind a Jolla C if it was available this side Jan 02 19:57:25 well then came ubuntu touch, but they failed. you have root and everything, which is great, but it was full of bugs when I tried it and barely useful. Jan 02 20:00:49 you don't hear much from them either anymore, I wouldn't be surpirsed if soon we will see an announcment that the project is officially abandoned Jan 02 20:36:30 didn't they alrady re-focus on IoT and TV sets? Jan 02 20:36:48 or was that firefox-OS Jan 02 20:38:14 they all share one common problem: focus on app development only, completely neglecting the need of a proper tailored-to-the-usecase core OS and middleware Jan 02 20:39:07 the generic linux is *NOT* suited very well for embedded phone usecase Jan 02 20:40:07 Android had to learn that lesson the hard way, and went pretty far into the outback while trying to cope with the consequences Jan 02 20:40:31 so far that I for one refuse to consider Android a legit linux anymore Jan 02 20:40:52 maemo did it right Jan 02 20:41:52 it seems other similar projects like Ubuntu and FireFox didn't even get the catch of it at all Jan 02 20:44:41 openWRT comes from routers thus embedded and so they have all the kernel stuff pretty much in shape, but they lack the middleware Jan 02 20:45:55 all other fools come from desktop and so they don't even see why e.g. systemd might not be the right thing for embedded Jan 02 20:46:51 and why you need to absolutely forbid polling for all processes from kernel drivers to high level apps Jan 02 20:49:22 https://www.neowin.net/news/end-of-the-line-microsoft-is-no-longer-selling-any-lumia-windows-phones-on-its-us-store Jan 02 20:50:05 so, what does nokia do nowadays? Jan 02 20:51:17 ozo .. Jan 02 20:52:49 ouzo? Jan 02 20:55:08 tyre and rubber boot manufacturing.... Jan 02 20:56:07 help please - i want to make an application (pyqt if possible, or pygtk) - i need to open an image, fill the entire window with the image. as the image may be larger than the display size, i should be able to pan it. zooming is not important, although it wouldn't hurt. in addition, i need to draw on top of the image - perhaps just a few points should suffice at first. finally, save the resulting image. is this something either pyqt/pygtyk can do by itse Jan 02 20:56:39 my problem is that i cannot even find information online .. no idea what keywords to use :-/ Jan 02 20:59:51 i think that's nokia's extension Jan 02 20:59:56 pannable windows Jan 02 21:00:28 it was only added in gtk3 in generic Jan 02 21:01:11 check for: pygtk tutorial, maybe pygtk image viewer, then pygtk drawing app Jan 02 21:01:12 i would like to think it's doable with 'standard' tools... for exampley, mypaint seems to be a python application, and runs on regular linux Jan 02 21:01:21 then combine all those into one app Jan 02 21:01:32 will look further .. i see terms such as 'pixmap' etc :-/ Jan 02 21:01:34 you may also check oscp-remote.py Jan 02 21:01:47 it draws onto window in winamp-skin-mode Jan 02 21:02:20 cool. will look Jan 02 21:02:21 anyway, nite nite Jan 03 01:19:19 ~combined Jan 03 01:19:19 i guess combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/, or http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/bin/n900/ Jan 03 01:19:36 ~emmc Jan 03 01:19:36 it has been said that emmc is is http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22YHFSICNA/--LID--FiRe1275051276916/AE98ED9D_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.CENTRAL-EUROPE_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin or see ~emmc2 Jan 03 01:31:10 ~emmc2 Jan 03 01:31:11 hmm... emmc2 is http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22FGDOJCSI/--LID--FiRe1275064390175/163EC1AE_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.IBERIA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22VHGOMWUG/--LID--FiRe1274862877184/E3AD4912_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.SEAP_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin, or see emmc3 Jan 03 01:31:18 zheez Jan 03 01:31:21 ~emmc3 Jan 03 01:31:21 from memory, emmc3 is http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/4/--FID--A0A22UYGVCFDF/--LID--FiRe1272381325983/E14B4F3B_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.SCANDINAVIA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Jan 03 02:02:33 buZz: psssst! see ~lazyflashing Jan 03 02:03:35 ~mirrors Jan 03 02:03:35 well, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new Jan 03 02:03:50 hmm Jan 03 02:04:05 ~flashing Jan 03 02:04:06 maemo-flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing Jan 03 02:04:28 ~listvalues muarf Jan 03 02:04:32 Factoid search of 'muarf' by value (2): #maemo repos ;; tabletsdev. Jan 03 02:04:40 ~repos Jan 03 02:04:40 from memory, repos is "deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ ./ ;; deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0/ ./", or see http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories, or see ~jrrepos Jan 03 02:05:07 http://maemo.muarf.org/tablets-dev/ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 03 03:00:01 2017