**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 06 03:00:01 2017 Jan 06 03:31:35 ~full boot Jan 06 03:31:53 ~n900 boot Jan 06 05:26:28 i tried to get more smileys as suggested in telegram post in tmo, but it failed somehow. They don't work. I put thme in /opt and symlinked to /home/user/purple/themes. Jan 06 05:27:04 do they need to be in some specially named folder? Jan 06 05:28:15 i have /opt/unicode-emoji-master Jan 06 05:29:08 and actually symlink is in /home/user/.purple/smileys Jan 06 07:03:44 vajb: if you run your pidgin from terminal via strace pidgin 2>&1 |grep open you will see what dirs/files it tries to access Jan 06 07:04:42 umm is that exact command? Jan 06 07:04:54 dont know how pidgin is started Jan 06 07:05:15 but usually: strace some-app-name 2>&1 | grep open Jan 06 07:05:39 k i'll try Jan 06 07:08:58 well at startup it seems to load only libs Jan 06 07:09:11 then open messages history Jan 06 07:09:19 that should trigger smileys load Jan 06 07:09:19 from /lib and /user/lib Jan 06 07:11:53 nope didn't load anything extra Jan 06 07:12:17 and smileys were just empty icons or such Jan 06 07:12:33 but i'll let it run and see what else it does Jan 06 07:12:43 > strace pidgin 2>&1 |grep open Jan 06 07:12:58 every time you using pipe where it is non needed, god kills a kitten! Jan 06 07:13:23 `strace -eopen -ff pidgin`! Jan 06 07:13:45 oo different point of view Jan 06 07:13:59 vajb, also check what config files it loads Jan 06 07:14:22 mva: pipes rules the world! Jan 06 07:14:44 *rule Jan 06 07:14:50 i think i have slightly different setup here Jan 06 07:15:22 Vajb: by the way Jan 06 07:15:25 mva, also, keep in mind tools included in default maemo sometimes are severely crippled ones Jan 06 07:15:39 Vajb: strace -eopen,stat,access -ff pidgin Jan 06 07:15:48 like i put telegram-purple is /user/.... and it was suggested to put it in /opt and symlink to /user, but could it even make a difference? Jan 06 07:16:06 it can check for existance before opening Jan 06 07:16:16 if you see it trying to load something from /usr and not retrying in /opt, then yes Jan 06 07:17:12 well actually it is not loading anything from /opt Jan 06 07:17:14 mva, good point Jan 06 07:17:30 at least so far Jan 06 07:17:33 sometimes it dynamically loads some image plugin libs Jan 06 07:17:39 KotCzarny: because they're busybox plugins. But strace is on it's own and it is almost impossible to castrate it at ./configure time ;) // there is only check for libunwind, which is not a case here ;) Jan 06 07:17:46 and when failing to do that it wont try to open any images Jan 06 07:18:17 offtopic, -16C Jan 06 07:18:22 winter finally came Jan 06 07:18:42 add -10 to that Jan 06 07:18:48 :) Jan 06 07:18:56 uhm Jan 06 07:19:07 there was -1.5 tonight Jan 06 07:19:13 hmm or not add but other way around Jan 06 07:19:15 and now it is -15 here too :-/ Jan 06 07:19:22 meh -26 anyway Jan 06 07:19:25 if you add negative number its substracting Jan 06 07:19:43 ie. a+(-b) == a-b Jan 06 07:19:49 ok then substract Jan 06 07:20:04 so your first sentence was correct too Jan 06 07:20:31 hmm neat Jan 06 07:21:04 uhm Jan 06 07:21:26 never thought it can be colder in Finland than Siberia ;) Jan 06 07:22:15 although, logically it is pretty correct: Siberia is in the middle of continent, and Finland is near an ocean ;) Jan 06 07:22:57 // although again, it is golfstream near Finland, but not for Siberia Jan 06 07:23:16 oooh, that geography :E Jan 06 07:23:26 um, ocean usually warm climate in winter and colds in summer Jan 06 07:23:35 *warms Jan 06 07:23:41 *chills Jan 06 07:23:49 KotCzarny: say it to Vajb :) Jan 06 07:23:57 yes, what KotCzarny said Jan 06 07:24:25 but during winter there is usually cold spell coming from siberia and it chills us Jan 06 07:24:30 Vajb: so, it is -15 in Siberia and -26 in Finland. Where is your "warmer"? :) Jan 06 07:24:45 plus also im stationed next to russian border Jan 06 07:25:01 eh what can i say? Global warming :D Jan 06 07:26:14 continental climate (as in middle/north of the russia) is much more extreme Jan 06 07:30:09 i think that middle siberian "highlands" is coldest place Jan 06 07:30:33 yeah, +8km over the sea level is a cold place Jan 06 07:30:47 i once saw a set of roadtrip pics from there. It was -63 at tops Jan 06 07:31:19 and their bottle of vodka started to have some ie in it Jan 06 07:31:24 ;) Jan 06 07:31:37 agh gtg bbl Jan 06 07:31:46 forgot your vodka outside? ;) Jan 06 07:32:25 * mva actually, living on a swarms, so it is pretty cold even when it's less temperature than somewhere else :-/ Jan 06 07:33:12 * mva is not Baba Yaga, if any Jan 06 07:33:26 yup, even -30C can be comfortable, as long its dry and calm (no wind) Jan 06 07:36:29 i once skiing at -35C ... it was like a frozen nightmare Jan 06 07:37:59 Thanks for your help yesterday, DocS & others. "Remotely rebooting", might be the easiest option for now. Will have to get another cable to try shorting D+/-. Jan 06 07:39:14 DocScrutinizer05: Sorry for the silence yesterday, was a shared desktop. I am using PR1.3. I'm still in "ground school" & have had a few hrs in a Jabiru. Jan 06 07:44:53 KotCzarny: RE (keeping n900's battery >90% all the time isnt healthy though). Rebooting the phone at <80%, sound like the better option? Jan 06 07:45:12 Michael_a380: it's about li-ion battery properties Jan 06 07:45:32 they dislike keeping at low and high charges Jan 06 07:45:50 which results in faster material deterioration Jan 06 07:46:01 which results in faster capacity loss Jan 06 07:46:31 Hmm, I guees my dad kills the car battery when he often charges it from the mains. Jan 06 07:46:32 in extreme cases growing crystals inside could pierce insulation and create shorts Jan 06 07:46:48 car battery is lead based, it prefers being 100% all the time Jan 06 07:47:09 of course, cheers Jan 06 07:47:53 though overcharging (too high charging voltage) will result in losing electrolyte Jan 06 07:48:04 if its bubbling, its bad Jan 06 08:12:53 car batteries are lead acid so different technology and charged differently. Jan 06 08:14:11 When a li-ion battery is shorted say goodbye to it, thermal discharge will occur and battery will be unsafe to use. Jan 06 08:15:16 shorting car battery isnt particularly safe either, 400A ftw! ;) Jan 06 08:16:10 The sparks are exciting tho Jan 06 09:29:50 I sent my n900 x50 SMS messeges. After 42 messeges the phone stopped the "SMS alert sound". Once I unlocked the screen, I viewed the yellow box message saying "42 unread messeges". Once the SMS were "marked as read", the undelivered messages flooded in. This all took place in the same location with very good celluler reception. All the messeges were "SMScon commands". Jan 06 09:30:59 *Once the SMS [all the messeges where] "marked as read" Jan 06 09:31:36 *sigh* Anyone heard of this before (n900 blocking any further SMS when already having loads of unread messeges) ? Jan 06 09:34:57 maybe its specific to smscon Jan 06 09:35:03 check it's docs/config Jan 06 09:46:21 Just sent some "gibberish messeges" and it's going through fine with x100+ unread messeges. Jan 06 09:50:47 then definitely some failsafe in smscon Jan 06 09:51:18 or in your service provider Jan 06 09:51:30 maybe they throttle? Jan 06 09:52:09 Once the remaining "undelivered messeges" came through, SMScon flooded its responses. Jan 06 09:57:00 Ah yes, maybe. I didn't set the "master phone number". Nothing comes up with search terms, "SMScon" & "unread" for TMO. I'll see if I can recreate the problem. Thanks. Jan 06 10:24:25 Michael_a380: dont rely on tmo's search function, its broken Jan 06 10:24:27 use google Jan 06 10:40:44 hi Jan 06 10:41:31 * jonwil wonders what 2017 will bring for the magical device that is the N900? :) Jan 06 10:42:22 for mine, it would be a new battery if it wants to stay on for longer than 3hrs Jan 06 10:49:23 My wish is to see software improvements that benefit the N900 Jan 06 10:50:02 Not the "lets run Maemo on other devices" stuff or the "lets run things on generic linux" stuff but improvments that I can run myself on my own N900 :) Jan 06 10:50:48 jonwil: then port Tizen to N900 :D Jan 06 10:51:19 Not interested in Tizen or SFOS or any other OS, I want improvements to the Maemo OS I have on the thing Jan 06 10:51:59 it is pretty hard to improve maemo, as you can see Jan 06 10:53:19 it's UI is mostly deplrecated gtk2 (and kludges), SDK recommends to use Qt4 (deprecated too), using 2.6.28 kernel (released in 2010)... Jan 06 10:54:46 there is so much places to work, that it is easier to commit suicide, than made it modern... Jan 06 10:56:37 so, for now, it is only way to use it, is to use it "as is", continuing backporting modern applications as they needed Jan 06 10:57:06 Compared to what the last Nokia stock release is, lots of improvements have been made to Maemo via CSSU etc Jan 06 10:57:14 yes Jan 06 10:57:16 I want to see that continue Jan 06 10:57:34 I want to see more of the OS reverse engineered and cloned :) Jan 06 10:57:34 in first year or two after abandonning N900 by nokia Jan 06 10:58:02 then even CSSU get frozen Jan 06 10:58:04 jonwil │ I want to see that continue Jan 06 10:58:27 If I can figure out how to parse Google GTFS data in a way I can use on my N900 then I intend to write an app that works with my local public transport operator Jan 06 10:59:04 me too, but... As I said, it is so much work, that no one want to take his life on it (and it is impossible to make it if you're a group of about 5 ppl) Jan 06 11:05:55 to be honest, gtk2 is fine enough to run any app Jan 06 11:06:24 and backporting isnt that complicated too Jan 06 11:32:38 jonwil: still no luck on that gtfs thing or just didn't have time? Jan 06 11:32:46 No luck with it Jan 06 11:32:53 eew :( Jan 06 11:35:49 Even if its limited to old versions of software, the N900 is still far better than anything from crApple :) Jan 06 11:36:05 oscp uses newest libs! Jan 06 11:36:19 I meant core system libraries Jan 06 11:36:35 yes, but i'm saying that its not the ultimate cripple Jan 06 11:36:44 yeah its not Jan 06 11:37:04 and that new software can run (not all, but its possible) Jan 06 11:43:58 my point is that regardless of any obsolete libraries we may be stuck with, the N900 and its Maemo OS is still far better than the alternatives. Jan 06 11:44:11 I wouldn't use an iPhone if someone gave me one for free... Jan 06 11:45:00 it all depends on use case, if one want game console, one buys game console. if one wants linux mini tablet with hw kb and phone, one buys n900 Jan 06 11:48:19 For my perspective its better :) Jan 06 11:49:12 The N900 is the most open and hackable phone out there except for a few niche things that are basically unobtainable. Jan 06 11:49:34 and is far more open than anything from Apple, Google or MS Jan 06 12:48:27 head -n 90298 db3.sql | tail -n 718 | gawk -F 'ES\\(|,' 'BEGIN{OFS=","}{$2=$2+27;print $0}' | sed "s/VALU,/VALUES(/" >> db3.sql.new.sql was the line I used to anti-duplicate primary-unique keys in el-v1.db Jan 06 12:48:55 oksana, you should store those bits of tricks on your wiki user page Jan 06 12:49:04 ie. w.m.o Jan 06 12:53:56 Could, yes. Note that this trick would transform a E S ( part of IM or SMS into a comma, unless it was part of VALUES(. But humans rarely write in CAPS LOCK. Jan 06 12:54:22 not true Jan 06 12:54:28 android capitalizes words Jan 06 12:56:05 Why would Android encourage ALL CAPS? And there is probably a cleaner way to do the same ^, likely Jan 06 12:56:27 you mean its longer words? Jan 06 12:56:52 ahm, reread it again Jan 06 12:58:34 head -n 90298 db3.sql | tail -n 718 | gawk -F ' VALUES\\(|,' 'BEGIN{OFS=","}{$2=$2+27;print $0}' | sed "s/\"Events\",/\"Events\" VALUES(/" >> db3.sql.new.sql No idea whether it works Jan 06 12:59:38 no sort -u? :) Jan 06 13:53:47 keeping battery at >90% is not known to cause any harm Jan 06 13:55:07 on lead acid overcharging also causes sulfatation Jan 06 13:57:14 you really should read a few dozen articles at http://batteryuniversity.com/ Jan 06 14:02:32 keeping battery floating at 100% charge and still all the time trickle charging it - known to cause massive harm to LiIon Jan 06 14:03:06 problem is keeping it <100% when connected to power source Jan 06 14:07:46 why the heck would anybody want to do this? Jan 06 14:10:12 my N900 evidently has no problem, it keeps battery at 100% 6 of 7 days a week 24h, since 5 years, and the nattery was always pretty fine for its age Jan 06 14:12:01 eventually I need to check the battery in the T900 which is running pre-1.2 and thus doing the 30s charging every 300s since 5 years 24/7/365 Jan 06 14:13:42 last time I 'stole' the charger plug from it, I noticed the missing charging after 6 days where it still was alive Jan 06 14:14:19 which means the battery is at least at 50% after those 5 years Jan 06 14:20:30 http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/ Jan 06 14:24:10 doc, just what i've said: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/do_and_dont_battery_table Jan 06 14:24:23 minimize full and empty areas Jan 06 14:42:48 what the heck are you referring to? nothing like that on this page can be found by me Jan 06 14:43:18 How to prolong battery: Jan 06 14:43:22 Keep cool. Operate in mid SoC of 20–80%. Prevent ultra-fast charging and high loads (most Li-ion) Jan 06 14:44:15 so? Jan 06 14:45:18 yes, ideally you're cycling between max 20% and 80% max, that doesn't say **keepoing* battery at 100% will do any further harm except of the one time charging to 100% Jan 06 14:45:35 so this is actually a point against what you recommend Jan 06 14:51:14 also LiIon batteries are said to be considered worn out after 5 years, no matter of theyre used or not. I *use* some LiIon since 7 years and keep them floating at 100% all the time, and since they are good batteries with very low self discharge (this is not a warranted property of all LiIon) they still are better than 60% capacity Jan 06 14:53:04 the very low self discharge is a mandatory prerequisite for the battery not eating _any_ current while floating at charge_end voltage. If it would constantly draw current under that operation conditions, it would age pretty quickly Jan 06 14:53:54 which is the rationale behind the "do not keep floating at 100% in charger" advice Jan 06 14:54:38 maybe nokia knew a bit or two about li-ion and charge stops earlier than on other cells Jan 06 14:55:18 batteries that do not taper down to 0mA at charge end voltage actually MUST get disconnected from charger and only get recharged after they discharged to a certain lower voltage threshold, either by load or by self discharge Jan 06 14:55:44 nom the don't stop at all, do you read what I wrote? Jan 06 14:55:49 no,* Jan 06 14:56:17 they charge to 4268mV usually Jan 06 14:56:22 sorry Jan 06 14:56:29 4168mV Jan 06 14:56:52 then it stops earlier. standard is to charge to 4.2 Jan 06 14:57:00 which is close enough to the supposedly recommended 4200 Jan 06 14:57:48 please do your math before chiming in here with claims. this is less that 1% Jan 06 14:58:13 you've seen those charge curves Jan 06 14:58:41 when it changes from linear to exponential 1% might not be the same Jan 06 14:59:01 I *really* tried it, it's not bearable Jan 06 14:59:02 in effect on longevity Jan 06 14:59:04 *plonk* Jan 06 15:00:26 1% is prolly well below the precision of the metering equipment, so... Jan 06 15:00:37 I'm glad I got an ignore list Jan 06 15:10:28 btw it's true you should *store* batteries at max 70% charge, at low but NOT freezing temperatures Jan 06 15:10:41 for achieving max lifetime Jan 06 15:12:39 it's also true you can run (LiIon all, also above) batteries in a special low-wear mode where you keep them charged to 80% only for even longer than specified lifetime and cyclecount. Particularly when those batteries are in device like laptop where they are all the time at elevated temperatures Jan 06 15:13:10 none of all this *really* says you must not keep LiIon at 100% charge Jan 06 15:19:55 a note on some previous claim that came up here: nowadays a non-negligible fraction of car starter batteries are actually LiIon, not lead acid Jan 06 15:20:29 and they are all kept at 100% if any possible Jan 06 15:34:03 and again, to keep it utterly unambiguous: while pre-PR1.2 actually shuts down charging at end of charge voltage, and enters a ~15..30s ConstantVoltage (4200mV) charging during a 300s(?) period, PR1.3 *never* switches off charging and keeps battery afloat at charger providing 4200mV constant voltage Jan 06 15:35:07 this is most likely a bug from power consumption introduced by keeping USB MUSB-core, PHY et al enabled all the time, while on wallwart charger Jan 06 15:35:49 so the device never reaches charge-end current threshold which is iirc 16 (maybe 30) mA Jan 06 15:36:59 well, I'm not absolutely sure if maybe eventually the BQ24150 watchdog time (4h?) kicks in, terminating the charging hard Jan 06 15:37:39 but then the 300s/Xs taper charging by BME would re-enable charging after max 300s Jan 06 15:41:13 the once-per-300s taper charging - until charge end current stops it after a maybe 15s - is indeed a almost sane thing, by concept. It however should stop hard after 30s, not keep charging infinitely on batteries with high self discharge rate, for those this scheme is a killer Jan 06 15:42:11 then a battery with such high self discharge rate is considered dead anyway and should get discarded and replaced by a good one Jan 06 15:43:10 24h*30.5d*6m Jan 06 15:43:23 ~24*30.5*6 Jan 06 15:43:31 GRRR Jan 06 15:44:51 around 4400h Jan 06 15:45:40 so a sane battery should not have a leakage current > 1300mAh/4400h Jan 06 15:45:49 ~1300/4400 Jan 06 15:45:50 0.295454545455 Jan 06 15:45:56 0.3mA Jan 06 15:45:58 :D Jan 06 15:47:22 normal self discharge is one or two orders of magnitude lower Jan 06 15:47:58 on quality LiIon batteries Jan 06 15:48:48 so all my batteries are floating on charger attached at 4168mV@0.0mA average Jan 06 15:49:12 if yours doesn't and consumes current constantly, discard it! Jan 06 15:49:53 and no, my LiIon do not exactly suffer undue harm and damage from this scheme Jan 06 15:50:27 as a >60% after 5 years 24/7 proves Jan 06 15:56:50 ((so the device never reaches charge-end current threshold)) this is due to the charger chip not only charging battery but also providing power to the complete system, and it can't discern between the two sinks Jan 06 15:58:35 so BQ24150 never will see charge end current threshold reached when system consumes significant power. BQ27200 gas gauge chip otoh *can* measure clean plain battery current, but this is not used to control the charger chip Jan 06 16:01:47 BME might once have been meant to implement such correct battery current control via BQ27200 and feedback to BQ24150, but obviously it fails miserably on that task if it ever really been the task Jan 06 16:03:54 BME replacement is kernel based afaik, and probably any developer would get fatal headache from fighting agaonst layering violations when they tried to implement it in a upstream-able fashion Jan 06 16:05:30 in my book this isn't a kernel issue but actually best handled in a userland app that has all the knowledge about battery management Jan 06 16:06:40 just like initiating a call on modem isn't a kernel task Jan 06 16:13:38 (car starter batteries) because of LiIon: ~250-~340 W/kg, vs Lead Acid 180 W/kg Jan 06 16:14:44 and Lead Acid 33–42 Wh/kg vs LiIon 100–265 W·h/kg Jan 06 16:15:10 saving 2-3kg for a hell of maintenance Jan 06 16:15:33 especially in colder/hotter climates Jan 06 16:16:02 you can save up to 80% of weight with swapping lead acid for LiIon in a car Jan 06 16:16:30 80% of weitgh which is how much, 0.1% of car weigh? Jan 06 16:16:32 seriously Jan 06 16:16:37 possibly 90% Jan 06 16:17:05 and in the case of car accident you have a bomb under the hood Jan 06 16:17:21 plus LiIon is maintenance free Jan 06 16:18:34 and thanks to higher power per kg, you may get away with lower capacity, after all you don't need 60Ah*12V to start an engine Jan 06 16:20:44 assuming you need a maybe 150A, from a power POV you may get away with 15Ah high power LiIon Jan 06 16:21:27 NB those latter 4 or 5 lines are numbers right from my rear Jan 06 16:24:16 anyway according to the math, a 50Ah Lead Acid weighs ~18kg - quite worthy target for optimizations Jan 06 16:24:35 oops sorry typo: 60ah Jan 06 16:27:19 hmmm 14kg https://www.amazon.de/Varta-58360-Autobatterie-Dynamic-Preis/dp/B00RZ56PPW Jan 06 16:30:14 https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/highly-effective-green-standard-lithium-li_60585975275.html?s=p weight 9kg, weird how little it saves on weight Jan 06 16:30:46 well, ok LiFePo Jan 06 16:31:05 which have other benefits over "normal" LiIon Jan 06 16:36:37 not exactly car starter, but nice summary of benefits: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIFEPO4-12V-100AH-LITHIUM-PHOSPHATE-DEEP-CYCLE-BATTERY-FOR-SOLAR-WIND-SLA-Repl-/152176150602 Jan 06 16:46:42 >>Up to 80 percent lighter and 5X the life of a lead acid<< http://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-Tender-Lithium-BTL09A120C-12-Volt-120-CCA-Motorcycle-Powersports-Battery-/262794426212 Jan 06 16:47:03 Yes, Lithium will always provide more power per kilo, lithium atoms are smaller than lead. Jan 06 16:48:43 Wizzup: SUP Jan 06 16:49:21 LiFePo is 50% lighter than lead Jan 06 16:49:32 and 2,5 heavier than LiIon Jan 06 16:49:49 hehe yes. anyway see how they "cheat" on last one I linked: "Pb Eq(uals): 7.9ah" but "25.6Wh" Jan 06 16:50:04 which in my book makes slightly over 2Ah Jan 06 16:50:43 L29Ah: ack, many thanks for clearing it Jan 06 16:51:08 also lifepo can give away a lot more power, like 300C Jan 06 16:51:26 awesome for starting a car using a tiny cheap immortal cell Jan 06 16:51:26 :nod: that's why they may 'cheat' like this Jan 06 16:52:33 * sixwheeledbeast is waiting for a Hydrogen Fuel Cell the size of BL-5J Jan 06 16:52:44 2Ah * 300C = 600A Jan 06 16:52:53 swb: +1 Jan 06 16:53:23 sixwheeledbeast: I wish they finally would come to market with one of the several prototypes they had during last maybe 10 years Jan 06 16:53:40 May even get a years charge out of it. Jan 06 16:54:02 nah they're not that energy dense Jan 06 16:54:25 * sixwheeledbeast assumes oil companies have jumped on the tech and won't let go. Jan 06 16:54:26 the benefit is: refuel them with e.g. ethanol Jan 06 16:54:28 they're like 10x of the state-of-art LiIon Jan 06 16:54:53 l29ah, but much much more reusable Jan 06 16:54:56 (not the hydrogen ones) Jan 06 16:55:11 KotCzarny: afair the prototypes have problems with longevity Jan 06 16:55:49 also storing hydrogen is not a simple task Jan 06 16:56:07 L29Ah: that's why they are prototypes and not market ready products Jan 06 16:56:19 it will permeate everything if it's not chemically bound Jan 06 16:56:57 Store as water? Jan 06 16:59:24 use hydrocarbon e.g. ethanol or methanol Jan 06 16:59:36 sixwheeledbeast: and you have a perpetuum mobile Jan 06 17:00:05 there are no perpetuum mobiles in this universe Jan 06 17:00:06 it takes more energy to break water down than to burn hydrogen in a fuel cell Jan 06 17:00:11 it's quite wasteful since the carbon is oxidized and just creates heat for nothing, but it somewhat works nicely, particularly for "storing hydrogen" Jan 06 17:01:28 Not as efficient as hydrogen granted. hydrocarbon would be like going back 30 years Jan 06 17:01:49 L29Ah: hi Jan 06 17:01:58 * DocScrutinizer05 recalls a fuel cell working with methanol(?) that was like 200cm^3 Jan 06 17:02:17 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_methanol_fuel_cell not many info re performance :/ Jan 06 17:03:27 'my car didnt start today. why? someone drank my battery to the bottom' :P Jan 06 17:04:11 Well at least they couldn't steal it Jan 06 17:04:11 L29Ah: you poked me for a reason? Jan 06 17:05:07 Wizzup: yes, you forgot about your plans to make plans and i wonder how are you and whether i should expect you to do that Jan 06 17:05:30 l29ah: he got new toy Jan 06 17:05:31 You've seen the maemo thread, right? Jan 06 17:05:38 KotCzarny: I ... what? Jan 06 17:05:47 wizzup, a33 tablet Jan 06 17:05:54 L29Ah: That's ... part of the whole plan :) Jan 06 17:06:04 or i've confused the people Jan 06 17:06:05 I specifically got the tablet for this Jan 06 17:06:08 http://ultracell-llc.com/store.php what Jan 06 17:06:30 Wizzup: i've seen the "organized" thread; what thread are you talking about? Jan 06 17:06:34 L29Ah: I also got a few tablets for devuan people in amsterdam Jan 06 17:06:45 L29Ah: the organised thread also asked for people who want to help to specifically say that Jan 06 17:06:53 so far I haven't seen anyone else say that they want to pick up any tasks Jan 06 17:07:06 i don't really get why do you want to stick to the tablets Jan 06 17:07:14 I don't Jan 06 17:07:19 tablets are easy to do dev on Jan 06 17:07:19 as they have a lot of problems on they own Jan 06 17:07:23 no Jan 06 17:07:32 yes, those specific tablets are Jan 06 17:07:38 qemu-user is easy to do dev on Jan 06 17:07:41 The next two main things are: 1) start autobuilding packages for devuan, 2) get an image that we can run on some devices for testing Jan 06 17:07:49 qemu-user doesnt do touch on display Jan 06 17:07:53 and I think I also mention VMs in that thread Jan 06 17:08:26 k i guess i suck and should buy another n900 to be of any use Jan 06 17:08:35 how so? Jan 06 17:08:40 I don't think that's true Jan 06 17:08:51 http://www.myfcpower.com/collections/shop/products/myfc-powertrekk-2-0 Jan 06 17:08:52 i don't know debian and i don't want to be offline on my main n900 Jan 06 17:08:54 for long Jan 06 17:09:08 L29Ah: you can use qemu-arm for most/all of that, correc Jan 06 17:09:10 t Jan 06 17:09:10 l29ah, grab a33 tablet, they go very cheap Jan 06 17:09:14 even cheaper than use n900 Jan 06 17:09:21 L29Ah: I also don't ``know'' debian Jan 06 17:09:26 but how hard can it be :) Jan 06 17:09:36 wizzup: dpkg is hell Jan 06 17:09:42 (finishing what I wanted to say) ... it's been about two weeks since any status update I think, because I got _completely_ flooded with work, been working till deep in the night every day Jan 06 17:09:52 KotCzarny: devuan has pretty nice auto build systems Jan 06 17:10:03 KotCzarny: cheaper than $30? Jan 06 17:10:05 and most of the packages fmg and others have on github already have scripts to build it Jan 06 17:10:23 l29ah, something in that range Jan 06 17:11:10 L29Ah: I think there's a few reasons we took some of these tablets -- more ram, still similar (relatively small screen), same instruction set, and the realisation to also move beyond the n900 at some point Jan 06 17:11:17 that doesn't mean not also making verything work on the n900 Jan 06 17:11:19 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tablet-7-Android-4-4-Allwinner-A33-tablet-Zyrex-SM746-Dual-Core-Tablet-PC-512MB-4GB/32760507523.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.kcWVTk&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10053_10050_10107_10106_10051,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_5,single_sort_0_price_asc&btsid=3cddb927-85 Jan 06 17:11:24 it just means we need to target *MORE* than just the n900 Jan 06 17:11:26 36usd, free shipping Jan 06 17:11:35 KotCzarny: and who knows what you'll get Jan 06 17:11:44 shitty screen though Jan 06 17:11:47 I think the n900 is also a good target - I have spent quite some time on getting the tablet drivers in shape Jan 06 17:11:48 only 640x480 Jan 06 17:13:19 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/7-inch-A23-Dual-Core-Q88-Tablet-WIFI-MID-Dual-Camera-Android-4-2-512MB-4GB/32315402586.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.112.kcWVTk&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10053_10050_10107_10106_10051,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_5,single_sort_0_price_asc&btsid=3cddb927-85bb-4c7d Jan 06 17:13:23 https://www.avito.ru/moskva/telefony/telefon_nokia_nseries_n900_888210477 $34 Jan 06 17:13:27 38usd, 1024x600 Jan 06 17:13:39 512MB vs 256 :P Jan 06 17:13:45 KotCzarny: the n900 has pretty great support Jan 06 17:13:49 http://ultracell-llc.com/assets/XX55_Data_Sheet_SY011011_Rev_01.pdf hmmm Jan 06 17:14:00 ahm, this one is only a23 Jan 06 17:14:01 we just need to get devuan images with n900 kernel (pali or mainline), with pvr drivers and stuff set up Jan 06 17:14:02 20:08:51] http://www.myfcpower.com/collections/shop/products/myfc-powertrekk-2-0 Jan 06 17:14:02 zero info :( Jan 06 17:14:04 same for the tablets Jan 06 17:14:30 wizzup, anyone managed to get pvr blob running on mainline? Jan 06 17:14:38 I think fmg Jan 06 17:15:28 L29Ah: anyhow, when I get home in a few days I will be more relaxed, right now I can mostly think of work Jan 06 17:15:34 too much crap to do :/ Jan 06 17:15:54 if you want to start _now_ I can send you info that devuan folks gave me when I asked about auto building Jan 06 17:16:11 They have a nice system, and we'll need git(lab) accounts and some ci hooks to get things going Jan 06 17:16:21 And then we're very close to just getting a repo where it gets auto build into Jan 06 17:18:29 L29Ah: but I do need to know what you're interested in, or what you'd like to pick up Jan 06 17:19:02 are you talking about automatic image builds? Jan 06 17:19:51 not images, but repos Jan 06 17:19:54 debian repos Jan 06 17:20:09 so you can add a repo to apt sources and it'll get our maemo-specific packages in there Jan 06 17:20:12 do we need those? won't upstream ones do? Jan 06 17:20:13 e.g. h-d Jan 06 17:20:20 ah, maemo-specific Jan 06 17:20:22 yes Jan 06 17:20:23 :) Jan 06 17:20:27 we don't need them now tho Jan 06 17:21:07 as we don't know even if they'll build and work on the new kernel Jan 06 17:21:10 wait Jan 06 17:21:22 i guess i have a messed up dependency graph in my head Jan 06 17:23:51 L29Ah: so the maemo specific things are being ported over to 'mainline' sw, e.g. gtk3 Jan 06 17:23:58 where we do not require specific patches to said sw Jan 06 17:24:01 http://www.myfcpower.com/collections/shop/products/myfc-powertrekk-pucks this SUCKS Jan 06 17:24:07 i can have 10W*h in a 18650 weighing 45g Jan 06 17:24:13 and it's cheap and rechargeable Jan 06 17:30:10 hmm while http://www.myfcpower.com/collections/shop/products/myfc-powertrekk-2-0 leaves me totally puzzled, it also gives me ideas along using a Peltier with arbitrary heat sources like handwarmer pocket ovens, heat pads, parabolic mirror, even medical products that heat from oxidizing some iron dust or whatever Jan 06 17:31:45 http://www.thermacare.com/ Jan 06 17:31:47 peltier is 1% efficient Jan 06 17:31:51 and bulky as hell Jan 06 17:32:12 as you need to enclose your heat source to get all the energy Jan 06 17:32:24 also you need to be careful not to overheat it Jan 06 17:32:36 and at the same time you need to heat it more for better efficiency Jan 06 17:32:47 ugh really? 1% only? Jan 06 17:32:54 smth like that Jan 06 17:33:38 hard to believe they'd use such poor efficiency item in cooling boxes for 12V car / camping operation Jan 06 17:33:38 stirling engines are a lot more efficient but are very expensive and not that good at longevity on small scales Jan 06 17:34:22 they're like 5x less efficient at cooling than traditional compressor setups you can see in fridges afair Jan 06 17:34:23 or is the efficiency vastly asymmetric? Jan 06 17:34:26 but they come in simple and small packages Jan 06 17:34:49 well, you can't really compare cooling efficiency and the power generating one Jan 06 20:32:18 hi Jan 06 20:38:23 hi! Jan 06 21:22:20 elo Jan 06 21:22:58 Hi :-) Jan 06 21:24:15 what's going on here? ;> Jan 06 21:24:52 allah is doing Jan 06 21:24:52 * DocScrutinizer05 0 DocScrutinizer05 1 2 3 xxY Jan 06 21:25:10 i don't see any users Jan 06 21:25:25 Repaired duplicate primary-unique keys problem in el-v1.db recently. Wonder where it came from. Jan 06 21:25:26 what is he doing? Jan 06 21:26:35 How is it possible to see no users when there are 100+ maemo users on the channel? Jan 06 21:26:56 simple, broken client or drunk Jan 06 21:27:09 :p Jan 06 21:27:20 i use uzbl client Jan 06 21:27:34 in n900 Jan 06 21:27:35 158 people in room... Jan 06 21:28:00