**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 23 03:00:00 2017
Jan 23 09:06:15 <buZz> wooo CP-321 is really nice :)
Jan 23 09:20:38 <Sicelo> what is it
Jan 23 09:20:59 <buZz> a little 'sleeve' case for the n900
Jan 23 09:21:08 <Sicelo> ah :-)
Jan 23 09:21:17 <buZz> http://images.mobilefun.co.uk/graphics/productgalleries/21662/nokia-cp-321-nokia-n900-black-p21662-a.jpg
Jan 23 09:22:11 <Sicelo> i wish to get CP-408
Jan 23 09:23:28 <buZz> if that had a magnet instead of a pushbutton, it would be nice
Jan 23 09:25:44 <Sicelo> i prefer in-place cases, where i can fully use device without getting it out of case. CP-321 seems to have had bad review in general though :(
Jan 23 09:25:53 <buZz> yeah its a full cover
Jan 23 09:25:56 <Sicelo> but great if you like it :)
Jan 23 09:25:58 <buZz> not for usage
Jan 23 09:26:03 <buZz> but great for storage :)
Jan 23 09:26:14 <buZz> gotta keep my backup n900 fresh ;)
Jan 23 09:26:35 <Wizzup> pdair has great cases for the n900
Jan 23 09:27:05 <Wizzup> https://www.pdair.com/nokia-n900-aluminum-metal-case-black
Jan 23 09:27:59 <bencoh> do they actually still sell those?
Jan 23 09:29:22 <Wizzup> yes
Jan 23 09:29:31 <Wizzup> I ordered a few ~4 months ago
Jan 23 09:29:37 <Wizzup> and they say it's still in stock, so...
Jan 23 09:29:50 <kerio> otterbox
Jan 23 09:30:12 <Michael_a380_> wow, are they worth it (pdair)? Seems pricey.
Jan 23 09:30:36 <Wizzup> I like the cases, but mind that you need to open it (not: take out the phone, just open it) to use the keyboard
Jan 23 09:30:47 <Wizzup> They've saved my phone quite a few times, I like to believe
Jan 23 09:31:29 <kerio> i used to use an otterbox but it was a bit too bulky
Jan 23 09:32:16 <Michael_a380_> Still have it? People are looking to buy, on TMO.
Jan 23 09:32:48 <Michael_a380_> Any particular good case for N9 ?
Jan 23 09:32:48 <kerio> eeh, mine is missing at least one of the "teeth" that keep the screen part in place
Jan 23 09:42:45 <Sicelo> funny enough, that cp-321 is the only n900 pouch available here :p
Jan 23 10:05:16 <buZz> here?
Jan 23 10:05:24 <buZz> 'on the internet' ? :D
Jan 23 10:06:43 * buZz drools @ http://www.ebay.com/itm/Commodore-MOS-KIM1-Revision-F-Rare-1976-Single-Board-Computer-/282335096253
Jan 23 10:07:44 <buZz> can i still get replacement touch glass front?
Jan 23 10:07:57 <buZz> one of my n900's is really scratched a lot..
Jan 23 10:08:21 <Maxdamantus> it's plastic, not glass.
Jan 23 10:08:27 <buZz> ok :)
Jan 23 10:08:41 <Maxdamantus> since it's a resistive touchscreen, don't want to be bending glass.
Jan 23 10:11:29 <buZz> oooo full replacement case
Jan 23 10:11:52 <buZz> nice, i wonder if that would also make the hinges more tight
Jan 23 10:12:21 <kerio> did estel's full aluminum case ever come to life
Jan 23 10:17:46 <buZz> estel seems MIA
Jan 23 10:18:51 <buZz> Sicelo: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B0038J06GI/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new
Jan 23 10:18:56 <buZz> dno if that helps you
Jan 23 10:20:46 <buZz> does anyone know if this includes hinges? ;  http://www.ebay.nl/itm/HOUSING-NOKIA-N900-GENUINE-GRADE-B-TOUCH-SCREEN-SET-/322339524424
Jan 23 10:21:36 <buZz> funny how screen is upside down @ pictures :P
Jan 23 10:24:57 <buZz> oh wow, 2 euro replacement touch modules
Jan 23 10:25:12 <buZz> ah, wrong nokia n900 ;(
Jan 23 10:30:13 <bencoh> reminds me I need a new antiglare screen protector
Jan 23 10:30:25 <bencoh> any product you guys would recommend?
Jan 23 10:41:26 <buZz> bencoh: ducttape? :D
Jan 23 10:41:34 <buZz> no, no clue, i never use such products
Jan 23 11:05:20 <Vajb> bencoh: i have on brand in use and i like, will check it's name when i get back home. They come in packs of two
Jan 23 11:05:27 <Vajb> one*
Jan 23 11:05:38 <Vajb> one brand*
Jan 23 11:07:03 <bencoh> I kinda liked the last ones I bought (dont remember the brand either) but they no longer sell it anymore :/
Jan 23 11:07:21 <bencoh> (I bought mines like 3 years ago)
Jan 23 11:07:48 <bencoh> Vajb: thx :)
Jan 23 13:28:36 <bencoh> Vajb: btw http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1522324&postcount=196
Jan 23 13:29:07 <Wizzup> > tar -xvzf telegram-cli_1.3.3.tar.gz -C \
Jan 23 13:29:09 <Wizzup> that seems wrong
Jan 23 13:29:32 <bencoh> well, WIP I'd say :)
Jan 23 13:29:46 <bencoh> he did push some dependencies to extras, so he might push it as well
Jan 23 13:31:20 <Vajb> oh this is newest cli version?
Jan 23 13:32:02 <bencoh> dunno, looks like it :)
Jan 23 13:32:10 <Vajb> bencoh: Celly screen protector www.celly.com. It was nokia n900 specific.
Jan 23 13:32:44 <Vajb> bought it from local shop few years ago tho, but first film is lasted wery well
Jan 23 13:32:52 <bencoh> oh, thanks
Jan 23 13:33:30 <bencoh> Vajb: antiglare as well?
Jan 23 13:34:37 <Vajb> doubt, tho package says "less reflections of light"
Jan 23 13:34:44 <Vajb> but where to compare
Jan 23 13:35:06 <Vajb> i don't carry all my devices with me to compare :p
Jan 23 13:35:46 <Vajb> once sun caused some problem with proximity sensor tho, but t was solved as i blocked sun from sensor
Jan 23 13:40:33 <bencoh> Vajb: they don't sell it anymore, right?
Jan 23 13:44:19 <kerio> please don't use telegram
Jan 23 13:44:32 <kerio> it's pretty mediocre
Jan 23 13:47:47 <bencoh> kerio: got any serious alternative? :/
Jan 23 13:47:57 <kerio> on n900?
Jan 23 13:48:02 <bencoh> (tbh I kinda gave up)
Jan 23 13:48:03 <bencoh> yeah
Jan 23 13:48:20 <kerio> ...whatsapp desktop in fennec or chromium :^)
Jan 23 13:48:34 <bencoh> seriously? ...
Jan 23 13:48:40 <kerio> why not
Jan 23 13:48:54 <kerio> i mean i haven't tested it
Jan 23 13:49:02 <kerio> because it'll probably run like super shit
Jan 23 13:49:03 <kerio> but
Jan 23 13:49:07 <bencoh> and you still need an android phone to allow browser to connect
Jan 23 13:49:22 <kerio> yes, but that's easily done by running an android VM *in the cloud*
Jan 23 13:49:38 <bencoh> I'm not sure that works nowadays
Jan 23 13:49:42 <kerio> as a bonus, you get to use multiple clients and still have that nice trusted end-to-end encryption
Jan 23 13:49:49 <kerio> bencoh: i am literally using it right now
Jan 23 13:49:58 <bencoh> what? android vm in the cloud?
Jan 23 13:50:00 <kerio> running in bhyve on freebsd, even
Jan 23 13:50:08 <kerio> android-x86 is absolutely not picky
Jan 23 13:50:08 <bencoh> with whatsapp?
Jan 23 13:50:12 <kerio> ye
Jan 23 13:50:27 <kerio> logging in the desktop client was a fucking adventure tho
Jan 23 13:50:32 <bencoh> hmm, don't they actually check if you're running it on a phone nowadays?
Jan 23 13:50:40 <kerio> the only way is having the android box use a camera to scan a qr code
Jan 23 13:50:46 <bencoh> yeah
Jan 23 13:50:52 <bencoh> that's what I thought then :)
Jan 23 13:51:07 <kerio> bencoh: you can just download the apk from https://whatsapp.com/android
Jan 23 13:51:10 <Vajb> very convenient
Jan 23 13:51:27 <kerio> Vajb: it's pretty damn convenient if the whatsapp endpoint is on a real phone
Jan 23 13:51:30 <kerio> kind of awkward if it's a VM
Jan 23 13:51:40 <Vajb> bencoh: no idea. I haven't been looking for new protectors lately
Jan 23 13:51:46 <buZz> selfnarcing is in nobodies interest
Jan 23 13:51:59 <kerio> i ended up taking a picture of my screen with a tablet, rotating the tablet 90°, and presenting it to the passed-through webcam
Jan 23 13:52:08 <bencoh> huhu
Jan 23 13:52:23 <Vajb> well runnin whatsapp on desktop wouldn't help me at all
Jan 23 13:52:27 <kerio> the qr code actually has a pretty big key
Jan 23 13:52:37 <kerio> and it changes every like 30 seconds or so when you're doing that "pairing" thing
Jan 23 13:53:17 <Vajb> maybe mirror would have worked too :)
Jan 23 13:53:17 <kerio> Vajb: it's not whatsapp desktop, it's called "whatsapp web"
Jan 23 13:53:26 <kerio> Vajb: i had to rotate the image too tho
Jan 23 13:53:34 <Vajb> ah right
Jan 23 13:53:39 <kerio> because obviously the VM screen was like 800x600
Jan 23 13:53:50 <kerio> which clearly means "landscape" as opposed to "portrait"
Jan 23 13:54:00 <kerio> and not "this is a goddamn computer you piece of junk OS"
Jan 23 13:54:21 <bencoh> huhu
Jan 23 13:54:28 <kerio> but anyway, i have whatsapp on my laptop and i can pretend it's like every other IM service
Jan 23 13:54:30 <Vajb> well i'll use telegram until it works and after it doesn't i switch back to sms
Jan 23 13:54:36 <kerio> who even uses telegram
Jan 23 13:54:37 <kerio> and why
Jan 23 13:54:59 <buZz> all the phone fanboys i know use telegram
Jan 23 13:55:05 <Vajb> i use it because whatsap isn't working
Jan 23 13:55:06 <kerio> literally nobody i know uses any mobile IM service other than whatsapp
Jan 23 13:55:07 * buZz doesnt
Jan 23 13:55:10 <kerio> buZz: why would they
Jan 23 13:55:19 <buZz> kerio: to talk to each other
Jan 23 13:55:20 <bencoh> who, usually hipsters/geeks/techfans and some of their friends
Jan 23 13:55:24 <buZz> as they all left whatsapp
Jan 23 13:55:29 <kerio> no, geeks and techfans use signal
Jan 23 13:55:29 <buZz> when FB bought it
Jan 23 13:55:30 <kerio> or they should
Jan 23 13:55:31 <bencoh> why, because ... it's still more permissive than whatsapp
Jan 23 13:55:41 <bencoh> kerio: didn't they kill signal at some point?
Jan 23 13:55:45 <kerio> ? no
Jan 23 13:56:06 <kerio> signal is just whatsapp with blocking on key changes
Jan 23 13:56:22 <Vajb> and running whatsap on laptop isn't changing the fact that it is not working in n900
Jan 23 13:56:34 <kerio> Vajb: yea but you could run whatsapp desktop on n900 :3
Jan 23 13:56:51 <kerio> it's only a super javascript-heavy website after all
Jan 23 13:56:55 <Vajb> as in facebook messenger?
Jan 23 13:56:56 <kerio> we all know the n900 is great at those
Jan 23 13:57:06 <kerio> er, whatsapp web
Jan 23 13:57:14 <Vajb> reload page every now and then to get new messages etc
Jan 23 13:57:16 <kerio> https://web.whatsapp.com
Jan 23 13:57:19 <kerio> no no
Jan 23 13:57:21 <kerio> you wish
Jan 23 13:57:33 <kerio> it does some weird-ass synchronization with the phone app
Jan 23 13:57:43 <kerio> and is incredibly heavy, i bet
Jan 23 13:58:01 <kerio> the "desktop" client is just a browser app or whatever
Jan 23 13:58:32 <kerio> i mean it has to do crypto in javascript
Jan 23 13:59:06 <Vajb> tried to open that with n900 opera and got information that it works in chrome 36 or newer
Jan 23 13:59:11 <bencoh> kerio: hmpf :)
Jan 23 13:59:16 <Sicelo> i have yet to get a real reason why kerio considers telegram bad. sure it doesn't match Signal protocol .. but
Jan 23 13:59:32 <bencoh> what's so great about Signal?
Jan 23 13:59:33 <kerio> Sicelo: crypto is either broken or not broken
Jan 23 13:59:40 <Sicelo> Vajb: don't waste your time. kerio isn't even using it on N900 too
Jan 23 13:59:48 <kerio> Vajb: try fennec
Jan 23 13:59:58 <kerio> i wanna see if you get at least the qr code thingy
Jan 23 14:00:04 <Vajb> i might as well try through my browser
Jan 23 14:00:11 <kerio> i would test myself but my phone is all the way *there*
Jan 23 14:00:21 <bencoh> "there" ?
Jan 23 14:00:24 <Vajb> i wasted so much time with stickers so why not some more with whatsap :D
Jan 23 14:00:27 <kerio> on my shelf 
Jan 23 14:00:31 <kerio> and i'm at my desk
Jan 23 14:00:44 <warfare> Sicelo: Telegram doesn't encrypt by default and they rolled their own crypto. 
Jan 23 14:00:52 <Sicelo> signal is currently considerd there best encrypted IM at this point in time, bencoh 
Jan 23 14:00:55 <kerio> their own """crypto"""
Jan 23 14:01:13 <Sicelo> yes, they never hid that fact about own crypto. problem?
Jan 23 14:01:13 <kerio> Vajb: microb is way older than fennec
Jan 23 14:01:36 <kerio> Sicelo: yes, pretty much every cryptographer has told them "your crypto is bad" and they went "nanananana i cant hear you"
Jan 23 14:02:39 <Vajb> fennec says that whatsap works with firefox 30 or newer
Jan 23 14:02:53 <kerio> :(
Jan 23 14:03:27 <Vajb> microb says the same
Jan 23 14:03:39 <kerio> i can't even get to the whatsapp page
Jan 23 14:03:39 <Sicelo> it was obvious ...
Jan 23 14:03:43 <kerio> i get redirected to the main page
Jan 23 14:04:10 <Wizzup> 15:00 < Sicelo> signal is currently considerd there best encrypted IM at this point in time, bencoh 
Jan 23 14:04:17 <Wizzup> you mean the most usable for noobs
Jan 23 14:04:38 <bencoh> huhu
Jan 23 14:04:39 <kerio> Wizzup: no, the axolotl ratcheting actually beats otr in terms of security as well
Jan 23 14:04:42 <Wizzup> it's a centralised system, where you have to trust them to ship you the right code, to not send you faulty trust crap
Jan 23 14:04:56 <Wizzup> For me, it's out at the 'centralised system'
Jan 23 14:05:02 <Wizzup> but it's of course what makes it popular. ;) 
Jan 23 14:05:04 <kerio> it's... got end to end?
Jan 23 14:05:18 <buZz> i dno
Jan 23 14:05:25 <buZz> they can just PM me on irc
Jan 23 14:05:26 <kerio> Wizzup: https://github.com/WhisperSystems
Jan 23 14:05:31 <buZz> i dont need some hipster IM
Jan 23 14:05:33 <Sicelo> Wizzup: i completely agree with you
Jan 23 14:05:56 <buZz> nothing to gain with it :)
Jan 23 14:06:13 <kerio> buZz: except a reasonable expectation of privacy?
Jan 23 14:06:34 <buZz> doesnt bring me any more than a /msg buZz boobs
Jan 23 14:06:36 <Vajb> qml-browser redirects me to mainpage
Jan 23 14:07:06 <Vajb> if everyone were just using irc or jabber all would be easier...
Jan 23 14:07:34 <Wizzup> kerio: the trust mgmt is not
Jan 23 14:07:41 <Wizzup> kerio: and the source is not reproducibly built
Jan 23 14:07:42 <bencoh> kerio: https://www.internetsociety.org/sites/default/files/09%20when-signal-hits-the-fan-on-the-usability-and-security-of-state-of-the-art-secure-mobile-messaging.pdf ?
Jan 23 14:07:44 <Wizzup> and it's shipped by google
Jan 23 14:07:45 <Wizzup> and so on
Jan 23 14:08:51 <kerio> trust management?
Jan 23 14:12:21 <Wizzup> kerio: you search for me, find my in their central index, and request my key info. you will know when it changes, but you won't know that the initial one is mine, unless we explicitly sit down next to each other and compare the FPs
Jan 23 14:12:38 <Vajb> btw thinkpad users, how u open link in new tab with single click?
Jan 23 14:12:42 <Wizzup> e.g. pgp keyservers are useless if you trust them blindly (and those are not even centralised luckily)
Jan 23 14:12:52 <kerio> Vajb: hold ctrl?
Jan 23 14:13:14 <Vajb> wow
Jan 23 14:13:19 <kerio> you didn't know? :o
Jan 23 14:13:20 <Vajb> all life is learning
Jan 23 14:13:26 <kerio> nice :3
Jan 23 14:13:34 <kerio> today, i made the difference
Jan 23 14:13:34 <Vajb> didn't
Jan 23 14:14:01 <Vajb> my old acer had button emulating mousewheelclick
Jan 23 14:14:06 <Wizzup> Vajb: left+right mouse button
Jan 23 14:14:11 <Wizzup> or middle mouse button
Jan 23 14:14:13 <Wizzup> that all works in firefox
Jan 23 14:14:15 <kerio> Wizzup: are you seriously claiming that pgp's model is better
Jan 23 14:14:24 <kerio> with the weird web of trusts and the updated signatures 
Jan 23 14:14:32 <kerio> pgp /failed/
Jan 23 14:14:41 <Wizzup> pgp is extremely widespread in use
Jan 23 14:14:44 <kerio> no it's not
Jan 23 14:14:55 <Vajb> left+right not working wery well in chrome
Jan 23 14:14:56 <Wizzup> I am not interested in the discussion, we clearly disagree.
Jan 23 14:15:06 <Wizzup> Just check how your linux distro updates is packages
Jan 23 14:15:19 <Wizzup> or the only usable email encryption
Jan 23 14:15:35 <kerio> openbsd uses signify, not gnupg :)
Jan 23 14:15:51 <Wizzup> Yes, I know
Jan 23 14:15:52 <kerio> the only usable email encryption - kinda - is S/MIME, not pgp
Jan 23 14:15:55 <ceene> Wizzup: you're mostly right, but i don't know a single one non technical person that knows what pgp is
Jan 23 14:15:55 <Wizzup> haha
Jan 23 14:16:01 <bencoh> err
Jan 23 14:16:03 <Wizzup> I know *noone* who s/mime
Jan 23 14:16:21 <kerio> ceene: take a guess at how many keys have ever been published on the keyserver pool
Jan 23 14:16:33 <ceene> so in the end this is just another discussion on why people chooses to use things that we don't agree with :)
Jan 23 14:16:33 <Wizzup> kerio: libressl also has completely shitty random generating code on systems that do not have getentropy
Jan 23 14:16:40 <Wizzup> It's way worse than openssl'd even
Jan 23 14:16:50 <Wizzup> tl;dr I don't really think that openbsd people know their crypto better than others
Jan 23 14:17:13 <kerio> ...aiui libressl just errors out if there's no valid source of entropy
Jan 23 14:17:18 <Wizzup> no, they do not
Jan 23 14:18:58 <kerio> ceene: so, there's less than 5 million pgp keys
Jan 23 14:19:06 <kerio> /in existance
Jan 23 14:19:07 <kerio> /
Jan 23 14:20:16 <ceene> that, however, doesn't provide any insight on its technical merits nor the security it provides
Jan 23 14:20:33 <kerio> says something about the usability of the whole thing tho
Jan 23 14:20:55 <ceene> possibly, yes
Jan 23 14:21:00 <ceene> but not neccesarily
Jan 23 14:21:17 <ceene> s/neccesarily/necessarily/
Jan 23 14:21:58 <ceene> why was orkut popular in brazil, but only in brazil, whereas facebook got internationally big?
Jan 23 14:22:11 <ceene> there are some questions that are difficult to answer
Jan 23 14:22:48 <kerio> i dunno, i doubt we'll see a resurgency in the usage of pgp
Jan 23 14:24:25 <ceene> neither do i
Jan 23 19:17:24 <DocScrutinizer51> ((kerio> ceene: so, there's less than 5 million pgp keys)) no, since most people (particularly non-tech-affine users) simply don't use servers to ship their pubkeys, rather they attach them to emails (and yes, that's maybe not the smartest idea but in theory also works when receiver handles stuff right)
Jan 23 19:20:21 <DocScrutinizer51> ~ping
Jan 23 19:20:22 <infobot> ~pong
Jan 23 19:56:57 <kerio> DocScrutinizer51: and nobody bothered to upload them?
Jan 23 19:57:07 <kerio> you don't need to control the private key to upload a key
Jan 23 19:58:38 <DocScrutinizer51> *I* know all that... so whatmdo you want to tell me?
Jan 23 19:59:47 <kerio> that i call super bullshit on "most keys are not on sks"
Jan 23 20:00:39 <DocScrutinizer51> up to you
Jan 23 20:01:28 <DocScrutinizer51> I ' not honestly interested in your devine 'I'm calling that' Trumpisms
Jan 23 20:02:39 <DocScrutinizer51> I also won't provide my email archives to you to prove my point
Jan 23 20:07:32 <kerio> the strong set - which is supposed to be the decentralized alternative to the bad evil server - is still around 50k users
Jan 23 20:08:00 <kerio> and there's no way there's a "shadow strong set" that only lives through emails
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 24 03:00:01 2017