**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 03 03:00:01 2017 Feb 03 05:12:42 no, you Feb 03 05:13:42 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders how Juesto could know about I final goal DocScrutinizer05 never heard of Feb 03 05:13:59 and who defined that Feb 03 05:15:05 and how that's in any way related to the lines posted in here since [2017-02-03 Fri 01:07:07] about neo900 what you said above Feb 03 05:19:09 * Juesto shrugs Feb 03 05:19:36 it's a prime number Feb 03 05:19:53 green Feb 03 05:21:31 why didn't we do that earlier? Feb 03 05:21:48 what are you talking about Feb 03 05:21:58 what are YOU talking about? Feb 03 05:22:54 wait, maybe you answered to some post I have on /ignore? Feb 03 05:23:25 ooh indeed, sorry Feb 03 05:23:30 feel free to check the logs Feb 03 05:23:35 did you? Feb 03 05:24:40 and no, that's not the goal, a devuan image with some maemo packages on top is vastly pointless regarding *maemo* Feb 03 05:29:00 I rather think 'the final goal' of any major community activity during the last days was to eventually establish a maemo UX, on a device for which a devuan image exists that could get installed Feb 03 05:29:38 you won't achive that by throwing a few packages on top of a plain devuan Feb 03 05:29:49 :nod: Feb 03 05:29:59 DocScrutinizer05: yep, maemo 7 that is Feb 03 05:30:39 at least I add -0m7 to the packages I think are ported so far Feb 03 05:30:47 package names that is Feb 03 05:33:41 Juesto: my final goal is a new distro, maemo 5 rebased on top of devuan Feb 03 05:33:49 right Feb 03 05:34:16 not just a couple of packages recompiled against devuan Feb 03 05:44:08 So you basically want what Ubuntu is to Debian? Feb 03 05:44:45 another system that has to be periodically rebased onto Debian/Devuan? Feb 03 05:44:53 yep Feb 03 05:46:22 So .. presumably maemo is going to have its own completely independent repository? Feb 03 05:46:26 just like Ubuntu has? Feb 03 05:46:48 and supposedly .. someone .. will update it to have the current versions of packages from Debian .. just like Ubuntu does Feb 03 05:47:01 and the updates won't get less and less frequent over time? Feb 03 05:47:20 rather no, that is why we are going to put maemo stuff on devuan servers Feb 03 05:47:45 Hm. In that case it seems like it would just be Devuan with more packages. Feb 03 05:48:16 either with an additional repository, or just the standard repository where the Maemo-specific packages will already live. Feb 03 05:48:18 * freemangordon is still having his first coffee Feb 03 05:48:39 Maxdamantus: right, this is more correct Feb 03 05:49:07 Mk, I think Ubuntu puts a lot of effort into its rebasing over Debian. Feb 03 05:49:28 Mk? Feb 03 05:49:36 mm/okay Feb 03 05:49:47 sorry, I am sleepy :) Feb 03 05:50:01 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh7l8dx-h8M Feb 03 05:50:02 Heh. Feb 03 05:59:55 Morning. Feb 03 06:00:30 DocScrutinizer05, unless I am mistaken warfare has set maemo.org entry to autorenew. Feb 03 06:03:42 DAMN! Feb 03 06:04:21 yeah, something got broken re your network connectivity Feb 03 06:04:47 or it was systemd proviking kernel oops? Feb 03 06:04:53 *provoking Feb 03 07:05:52 IRC client unsolicited quit Feb 03 07:07:52 Maxdamantus: more correct is adding packcages to devuan who rebase on debian Feb 03 07:07:55 as much as I hate systemd, I guess the culprit here either is dbus or some library mismatch Feb 03 07:08:00 but to another repo Feb 03 07:08:08 well systemd pushes dbus Feb 03 07:08:11 anyway. bbl Feb 03 07:09:08 weird thing: it doesn't look like segfault Feb 03 07:09:45 maybe ulimit Feb 03 07:10:41 doesn't linux offer a sort of trap that catches and signals ulimt excursions? Feb 03 07:11:28 gdb Feb 03 07:11:56 i wonder why no one invented OS overlays yet Feb 03 07:15:20 gdb is no trap, it's a monitor Feb 03 07:16:10 re: naming, freemaemo? ;) Feb 03 07:16:38 as in 'freemangordonmaemo' ;) Feb 03 07:17:17 lol Feb 03 07:21:29 Wizzup_: sure. At least Devuan has a better chance of providing that maintenance for longer. Feb 03 07:21:42 though .. I'm kind of sceptical tbh Feb 03 07:28:08 sceptical of what? Feb 03 07:28:14 we don't have a huge dependency on devuan per se Feb 03 07:28:27 I am doing the testing/building on debian jessie Feb 03 07:28:40 maemo had packages on debian once Feb 03 07:28:49 they lasted only one release Feb 03 07:38:16 aaaaah! >> If the process continues to consume CPU time, it will be sent SIGXCPU once per second until the hard limit is reached, at which time it is sent SIGKILL<< Feb 03 07:39:20 SIGXCPU - never heard of Feb 03 07:40:06 :o Feb 03 07:40:16 is it receiving that signal? Feb 03 07:41:13 no idea Feb 03 07:41:19 possibly Feb 03 07:41:23 20:28:08 < Wizzup_> sceptical of what? Feb 03 07:41:34 at least now I learned it's #24 Feb 03 07:41:37 That Devuan will still be alive in a few years. Feb 03 07:42:16 * DocScrutinizer05 ponders testing a killall -SIGXCPU konversation Feb 03 07:43:23 but it's maybe not very likely that SIGXCPU triggered exactly on relogin which been from the daily DSL-reconnect Feb 03 07:43:31 Maxdamantus: hence my next statement Feb 03 07:44:27 Right, my comment was really about the feasibility of distributions that are actual forks of other ones. Feb 03 07:45:14 whether "Maemo" is a bunch of packages in Debian or Devuan isn't that important .. it's probably a bad idea to have it as a fork of one of those systems. Feb 03 07:46:05 they are not really a fork Feb 03 07:46:14 (should've said "would be", to be clear that the direction people seem to be going in seems to be the right one) Feb 03 07:46:15 they just replace packages they don't want with alternatives Feb 03 07:46:35 everything else is imported directly from debian Feb 03 07:46:42 perhaps not even rebuild :) Feb 03 07:46:49 (I would guess) Feb 03 07:50:08 anyway :-(( @ man setrlimit|grep -A 10 RLIMIT_AS|grep -B 10 'unlimited.$' Feb 03 07:56:16 * DocScrutinizer05 pukes http://paste.opensuse.org/45861294 Feb 03 07:58:10 DocScrutinizer05, juiceme: Yes, maemo.org is on autorenew. I'd just forget to renew otherwise. Feb 03 07:58:32 hmm, new thing to me Feb 03 07:59:28 anyway thanks! :-) Feb 03 08:02:32 coding regatta doesnt look especially good for maemo (most submissions went into mer/sfos) Feb 03 08:08:39 still, not bad for a 7 year old OS Feb 03 08:09:20 *years Feb 03 08:11:49 *7-year-old Feb 03 08:12:06 can we settle on 7yo ? Feb 03 08:13:05 wfm Feb 03 08:16:46 particularly nasty: this F*&$!!CK!NG IRC client doesn't store any settings when quitting abnormally Feb 03 08:17:18 honestly, what do devels think when they develop such shite? Feb 03 08:18:23 boobs, probably Feb 03 08:18:34 booby traps Feb 03 08:18:45 changing any arbitrary setup demands stopping the cliuent regularly, to not lose it when system goes down for whatever reason? Feb 03 08:21:07 I mean, *at least* a "save settings" menu item, pretty please with sugar and cream on top? Feb 03 08:22:06 >:-( Feb 03 08:26:02 Well is it about deciding on a major/minor revision? It seems more like starting a whole new distro from reading the back scroll from my last comment. Feb 03 08:31:48 That probably justifies a new name, obviously keeping Maemo due to SEO/copyright benefits. Maybe a new wind codename? Feb 03 08:32:41 how do you call the wind before avalanche? Feb 03 08:33:16 or the one that blows continually over the years Feb 03 08:35:08 avalanche isn't a wind, it's falling rocks.... Feb 03 08:35:29 yes, but wind can cause avalanche (rocks or snow one) Feb 03 08:35:45 Hurricane Feb 03 08:37:04 foehn maybe? Feb 03 08:37:24 (wind from the mountains) Feb 03 08:37:51 also written fohn or fen Feb 03 08:37:54 DocScrutinizer05: irssi does that Feb 03 08:42:03 In line with Maemo codenames:- Levanto, Maestro, Norte, Ostria, Pali, Pampero... Zephyros Feb 03 08:42:20 lol, there is a wind named pali? Feb 03 08:42:23 Foehn seems to be related to Chinook. Feb 03 08:42:25 :nod: Feb 03 08:42:56 Also Ostria:- A warm southerly wind on the Bulgarian coast Feb 03 08:44:24 What about flatus Feb 03 08:44:29 The funniest wind of them all Feb 03 13:03:36 how900: lovely <3 Feb 03 13:03:38 thank you Feb 03 14:51:51 sixwheeledbeast: never heard that word, where did you get it from? Feb 03 18:23:19 freemangordon: http://ggweather.com/winds.html Feb 03 18:23:37 nice Feb 03 18:24:28 well if doing alphabetical order, next wind should be i-k Feb 03 18:24:32 so knik or kona Feb 03 18:25:48 there not alphabetical as such hence Mistral and Sirocco Feb 03 18:27:11 sixwheeledbeast: weird. I wonder where this word comes from, it is definitely not slavic Feb 03 18:27:38 Seem Austrian somehow from searches Feb 03 18:28:22 Not much information from a quick search Feb 03 18:28:25 and a wind in Bulgaria is called that? ok, could be. if internet says so :) Feb 03 18:28:31 anyway Feb 03 18:29:43 The American Meteorology Society... Feb 03 18:29:47 mhm Feb 03 18:30:09 ok then, if americans say so :D Feb 03 18:32:03 but I definitely like the idea of continuing Nokia's naming scheme Feb 03 18:32:11 using winds that is Feb 03 18:32:35 maybe if we name it after Pali he will join the development :p Feb 03 18:33:31 tbh, it will be using mainline kernel which wouldnt happen without his help Feb 03 18:33:58 sure. but still Feb 03 18:34:29 mistral is probably italian Feb 03 18:34:39 we have it also in the coastline in .hr Feb 03 18:34:39 mistral is already taken Feb 03 18:35:03 just saying Feb 03 18:47:22 maestrale, scirocco... tramontana Feb 03 19:30:22 I like the wind codenames too, here's a more comprehensive list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_local_winds Feb 03 19:32:27 Mistral and Scirocco where Maemo 2 and 2.1 Feb 03 19:58:19 BURA Feb 03 19:58:32 it's the strongest wind in .hr coast after tramontana Feb 03 19:58:41 blows from north Feb 03 19:59:18 ah, it's bora in english Feb 03 20:31:04 this has had me wondering for a while... I mostly recharge my n900 with a sony ebook reader charger (since it's the neatest ~2A USB charger I have) and it works fine, but I also have an Anker 15Ah powerbank (which is quite nice I think), I've had trouble lately connecting the phone to it. the 2A port hasn't really worked with the n900, but 1A has been fine, but like six months ago I've had to plug the cable Feb 03 20:31:10 in reeaally slow, then it works fine, but if ... Feb 03 20:31:13 ... I just tug it in quickly it doesn't start charging... I've tried different cables but it hasn't seemed there's much difference there except mechanically Feb 03 20:32:00 your microUSB might have started dying Feb 03 20:32:05 it's a known issue Feb 03 20:32:05 I had a nightmare last night where my last N900's USB port broke off. Feb 03 20:32:16 luke-jr: haha i remember, you were travelling iirc Feb 03 20:32:20 I mean, it works and I can charge, but I'm wondering about the mechanical part there, like what happens when I slowly plug stuff in vs. that I "normally" plug them in regarding charging Feb 03 20:32:27 luke-jr: when one broke Feb 03 20:32:28 parazyd, yeah I know of the isue Feb 03 20:32:31 parazyd: yeah :< Feb 03 20:33:11 joga: if you know how to open it, you can solder the port to the pcb Feb 03 20:33:18 ^ not really Feb 03 20:33:26 way too small components Feb 03 20:33:31 I just haven't had the nerve to solder the stuff since I use the phone all the time :D but I've tried to be really careful with it when plugging in chargers for many years now, I've had it for almost like, I dunno, 7-8 years? Feb 03 20:33:33 *maybe* if there wasn't anything around it Feb 03 20:33:56 I looked into this with an actually broken unit and yeah it was tedious Feb 03 20:34:01 joga: it's easier to solder/glue it for strength before it breaks Feb 03 20:34:06 veeery easy to fuck it all Feb 03 20:34:18 luke-jr: didnt you announce already saying bye-bye to n900 ? Feb 03 20:34:25 (this doesn't help if you're getting off a plane and the cord snags tho) Feb 03 20:34:30 KotCzarny: yes Feb 03 20:34:41 luke-jr: i was thinking on the pcb itself, not to strenghten the connections/joints Feb 03 20:34:48 I haven't used mine more than 60 minutes in months Feb 03 20:34:55 And how does one fix and strengthen the usb port after ir breaks? Feb 03 20:34:55 parazyd: that's not practical Feb 03 20:34:57 :) Feb 03 20:34:59 it* Feb 03 20:35:01 for those you'd need some better equipment than your usual store-bought soldering iron Feb 03 20:35:17 but I'm still using it and it works fine for now, I'm just wondering the reason why it behaves like that depending on the way I plug the cable in (or, the speed), and what goes on in the background, because I don't really know how the charging logic works Feb 03 20:35:18 the hard part is getting access to it Feb 03 20:35:41 joga: could be a weak USB port about to break; or it could be a non-spec charger Feb 03 20:35:52 design issue? Feb 03 20:35:53 if it's a non-spec charger, you might be able to mod it Feb 03 20:36:19 gotta short the data pins Feb 03 20:37:19 I've read the instructions to fix it before it happens, like scraping some stuff off and soldering the connector more tightly, but as I said, I haven't done it because I'm chicken after I sorta practiced with an already broken one that was really finicky ;) Feb 03 20:37:34 and I need this gorgeous phone! Feb 03 20:38:27 luke-jr, the charger is most likely fine, but also has been in (ab)use for some time so it might also be that it's just the culprit Feb 03 20:38:50 joga: most devices don't care if the charger is spec compliant Feb 03 20:38:51 but I don't recall other devices it doesn't work fine with with either port Feb 03 20:38:51 N900 does Feb 03 20:39:08 if those data pins aren't shorted, N900 will refuse to charge from it Feb 03 20:39:12 well this is a sorta reputable company product I think, and the capacity matches the spec Feb 03 20:39:24 well it does charge, *if* I plug it in correctly Feb 03 20:39:40 and that's what I'm wondering about, the technical reason behind that Feb 03 20:39:42 note that some Apple devices don't like the spec, so many chargers prefer Apple compatibility over spec Feb 03 20:39:55 yeah I don't give two foos for apple stuff Feb 03 20:40:01 the charger companies do Feb 03 20:40:03 too bad I have to sometimes help people with those things Feb 03 20:40:36 anyway, it used to work fine with the 1A port without careful plugging in Feb 03 20:41:18 so what I'm still wondering is where in some code / mechanical stuff is the thing that says "yeah that was slow enough and I had the time to do this whatever, bring it on" Feb 03 20:41:28 my guess is the 1A port is spec, and the 2A port is Apple-compatible Feb 03 20:41:34 but it doesn't really matter :) Feb 03 20:41:41 and something to do with the USB cable somehow tricks N900 if you do it right Feb 03 20:42:01 could also be that I've damaged the n900 charging somehow during the years Feb 03 20:42:22 I'm still sorta proud it has been serving serious daily usage since forever Feb 03 20:42:24 :) Feb 03 20:47:36 one here is running a web server on devuan :) Feb 03 20:57:03 :P Feb 03 21:10:30 If it's a non-spec charger, presumably you can do something in software to get it to still charge. Feb 03 21:11:06 maybe writing 500 or something to the max_current file in sysfs at the right time, dunno. Feb 03 21:12:14 joga: USB jack gas VBUS and GND make-first-break-last Feb 03 21:12:22 s/gas/has/ Feb 03 21:12:22 DocScrutinizer05 meant: joga: USB jack has VBUS and GND make-first-break-last Feb 03 21:12:23 current_limit* Feb 03 21:12:42 you can see the contacts being longer Feb 03 21:12:59 DocScrutinizer05, what does that mean? Feb 03 21:13:25 D+/- short signals gastcharger, so device starts charging with up to 1A, which might make your power vank freak out Feb 03 21:14:05 when you plug in slowly, N900 sees no D+/- short and thus charges with max 500mA or even just 100mA Feb 03 21:14:22 *beavis/butthead snortle* power vank Feb 03 21:14:49 hmm Feb 03 21:15:29 DocScrutinizer05: how does it recognize if you plug in "slowly"? i fail to see the logic of "slowly" Feb 03 21:16:22 parazyd: DocScrutinizer05 meant: joga: USB jack has VBUS and GND make-first-break-last Feb 03 21:16:40 [2017-02-03 Fri 22:12:42] you can see the contacts being longer Feb 03 21:16:45 well, I guess it's a factor of many things, like the cable physical dimensions, timing etc. but this particular "plug this cable you used to use in a bit slower in and it'll work with the n900, other devices work just as they used to", which makes me sorta think the n900 port is perhaps just a bit cruddy or something Feb 03 21:17:29 parazyd: because the D+/- pins are only shorted once the plug is fully in. Feb 03 21:17:34 see above Feb 03 21:17:39 i see Feb 03 21:17:43 cool Feb 03 21:17:55 D+/- contacts are shorter than GND and 5V_VBUS Feb 03 21:18:11 ie. I used it just fine, same cable, same n900 for quite some time (I forget, maybe 1.5 years or so), but only fairly recently noticed I needed to plug it in slow Feb 03 21:18:37 the 1A is ABS MAX, only with totally depleted fresh battery Feb 03 21:18:39 but thanks for info DocScrutinizer05, I figured you'd know how this stuff works :) Feb 03 21:18:53 old or partially depleted battery will draw way less than that Feb 03 21:19:45 I bought some cheap replacement battery a couple months ago Feb 03 21:19:55 but this problem started earlier Feb 03 21:21:21 fortunately it's not yet a showstopper, and maybe some day will just need to suck it and have something else if phones are still as relevant, but it's easy to say it's been the best goddamn phone ever for me :) Feb 03 21:22:09 (currently charging nicely from the powerbank) Feb 03 21:22:37 * parazyd uses the 5800XM batteries Feb 03 21:22:49 use a decent powerbank that can deliver 1A+ and has D+/- short Feb 03 21:23:16 alternatively use charge21.sh Feb 03 21:24:13 DocScrutinizer05, it's this https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7BP35M4543 Feb 03 21:24:43 sorry, I can't crystal-ball evaluate it ;-) Feb 03 21:24:46 runs a cubieboard a10 for about 32 hours or so I've thought it's quite up to spec Feb 03 21:25:43 I charge it every couple of months or so, just keep it with me Feb 03 21:26:12 depends how much I need to rely on it, but it has worked perfect with just about everything Feb 03 21:26:36 I'm using https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ORNOWZK?psc=1 with my powerbank, the "Output-II" has shorted D+/- :-) Feb 03 21:26:56 heh I've such a gadget too Feb 03 21:27:05 not 100% same but similar Feb 03 21:27:40 but that's also good to know.. Feb 03 21:28:26 because I think that's actually exactly what I usually charge it from: I have that thingy in between the e-reader charger! Feb 03 21:28:52 and I use the "output II" to charge random stuff like n900 Feb 03 21:28:57 btw N900 chargerchip will also throw error if VBUS is too low (I guess <4V), so a weak flimsy cable or worn-out contacts in plugs can also cause trouble, the more the higher the current drawn Feb 03 21:29:08 (on the second port I have rpi zero keeping my taskwarrior :p) Feb 03 21:29:55 (takes 170mA or so) Feb 03 21:35:33 cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger Feb 03 21:35:35 1 Feb 03 21:35:42 means D+/- short detected Feb 03 21:36:59 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/charge21_500mA-USBlimit__UNTESTED.sh for your convenience Feb 03 21:38:53 err... wtf.. I "open link"'d that from gnome-terminal, firefox asked me to open with or save, I picked open with... and it opened it in vim.. Feb 03 21:39:06 didn't expect that.. Feb 03 21:40:27 guess it saner than running it straight but I don't remember setting firefox to open stuff in vim especially if I click a button indicating I can choose something Feb 03 21:41:14 (it didn't say it was going to use program X like vim to open it) Feb 03 21:43:20 oh now I get it, I didn't actually click the "Browse"-button, but just had "open with" selected and clicked ok Feb 03 21:43:35 so it just sorta uses something, agh Feb 03 21:44:28 lol Feb 03 21:45:44 I dunno but it sorta seems exploitable :p Feb 03 21:46:22 :) Feb 03 22:00:27 check your mimetypes Feb 03 22:01:09 don't get me started about gnome! ;-) Feb 03 22:02:23 well, this is just a work laptop with vanilla ubuntu 16.04 ... :p Feb 03 22:03:57 * DocScrutinizer05 has allergy against all executables and apps starting with g* Feb 03 22:04:29 gconf gmail gnonevfs... Feb 03 22:05:02 though I usually use a tiling wm called notion, for this one I've just had unity there since I mostly just ssh+tmux to do the actual stuff, but I find unity horrible to use otherwise, but it's mostly for when someone else walks up to my desk and asks me to do random stuff X and sometimes silly stuff is easier with something default, instead of hardcore minimalism Feb 03 22:05:48 ack Feb 03 22:06:08 just GNOME BLAERGH! Feb 03 22:06:19 YMMV Feb 03 22:07:50 well, it's alright enough, ie. the non-unity stuff like the horrendous default alt-tab -behavior etc. Feb 03 22:08:40 usable by keyboard etc. but it's reeeally awkard if you have even a few terminals open Feb 03 22:09:34 I think I've actually changed it here so it doesn't group the terminals and there's just a flat line of windows you alt-tab through, but even then it's confusing as hell Feb 03 22:10:19 or, I mean, that's unity stuff I think Feb 03 22:11:08 simply not power-usage compatible unless you just have two windows or some religious desktop switching routine Feb 03 22:12:34 (or okay, of course one could master it but I just think it's very tedious in many respects in comparison to other available ways to make computer do stuff) Feb 03 22:15:44 though perhaps it's just that my use case is typically having many terminals open and it fits better with something like tiling+tabbing, I just sorta wish more window managers had a support for concepts like "fit these here" and "split these here" etc. Feb 03 22:17:53 (that's why it's easier to just do work in tmux so it's always alright) Feb 03 22:26:22 >>simply not power-usage compatible<< seems exactly to the point Feb 03 22:27:59 I mean gnome 2 was perfectly usable as a basic not-driving-you-mad system, even though suboptimal Feb 03 22:28:26 but just some tiny details ruin unity desktop, in addition to hiding configurability Feb 03 22:28:42 gnome was always pathetic but it gets worse and worse. KDE otoh actually improved until KDE3, since then it's going fown stability and usability wise Feb 03 22:28:50 s/fown/down/ Feb 03 22:28:51 DocScrutinizer05 meant: gnome was always pathetic but it gets worse and worse. KDE otoh actually improved until KDE3, since then it's going down stability and usability wise Feb 03 22:29:42 plus KDE has always had great configurability of everything Feb 03 22:30:10 something gnome devs reject as "might confuse users" _ W*T*F?! Feb 03 22:30:20 I never liked kde much myself and always wanted something more spartan I guess, but kde did have configurability up to filling the screen with it Feb 03 22:30:22 lol Feb 03 22:30:31 kde is too heavy imo Feb 03 22:31:36 joga: if you like Gnome experience, try Ubuntu-MATE Feb 03 22:32:07 s/Gnome/GNOME2/ Feb 03 22:32:07 sixwheeledbeast meant: joga: if you like GNOME2 experience, try Ubuntu-MATE Feb 03 22:32:17 DE doesn't really matter when you only run dozen terms =) Feb 03 22:32:49 I literally never see desktop wallpaper Feb 03 22:33:48 sixwheeledbeast, tried it, but just seems gnome 2 but a bit shoddy in comparison to the good olden days Feb 03 22:33:57 I have 6 Workspaces and rarely see wallpaper either Feb 03 22:34:31 anyway, it doesn't matter, I can run whatever but important is that tmux is there to keep the actual stuff organized, it just helps if the wm/de is compliant with whatever one needs to do Feb 03 22:35:03 I think MATE is great, it's the GNOME2 experience I like without all the gnome rubbish that came with it. Feb 03 22:36:25 lets start with my screen setup, with taskswitcher on top instead of integrated into bottom bar: http://wstaw.org/m/2017/02/03/plasma-desktopv17764.png Feb 03 22:36:28 I wish there was a simple UI that's sorta the default and for which users with simple needs and low technical skill can get help with and which works with even low-end computers if needed. that would be helpful Feb 03 22:36:44 wouldn't know how to achieve that in another desktop manager Feb 03 22:37:06 why do you need a task switcher at all Feb 03 22:37:20 why don't you? Feb 03 22:37:31 with a tiling wm I'd just "go" where I want to Feb 03 22:37:42 maybe you're n ot the multitasking person like I am= Feb 03 22:37:44 ? Feb 03 22:38:10 tiling = BS, I want fullscreen windows Feb 03 22:38:17 you get that with tiling Feb 03 22:38:26 and tabs, and workspaces, and splits, etc Feb 03 22:39:04 I've been using it since 2003 or so and have never found anything better, tmux just enhances it with its own similar operation Feb 03 22:39:28 it's basically a tiling wm in cli Feb 03 22:39:30 http://pub.parazyd.cf/dev/random/wins.png Feb 03 22:39:45 task switcher is a shell script calling dmenu :) Feb 03 22:41:23 joga: take a look at dtvm Feb 03 22:41:45 http://www.brain-dump.org/projects/dvtm/ Feb 03 22:42:42 hmm, well it seems like uzbl for browsing (which is fine) but I don't think I'll need that now Feb 03 22:43:02 :) Feb 03 22:43:34 hmm, I got too many tasks/windows for that, and alt-tab works great the way I configured it: http://wstaw.org/m/2017/02/03/plasma-desktopN17764.png Feb 03 22:44:32 DocScrutinizer05: same like my dmenu Feb 03 22:45:05 kist your dmenu seems pretty short, while this thing has a 80some scrollable entries Feb 03 22:45:14 just* Feb 03 22:45:17 at some point where I had to shut down my computer at work, I had perhaps 80+ terminals etc windows open, no problem whatsoever navigating them and keeping them running for months Feb 03 22:45:27 only i don't alt-tab, but call it with a hotkey and type a number, or a string in the window title :) Feb 03 22:45:46 ugh waaay too clumsy Feb 03 22:45:56 not really Feb 03 22:46:02 depends Feb 03 22:46:10 I like to keep stuff in fixed layouts Feb 03 22:46:15 alt-tab takes me 0.1s to switch between last two apps, 0.4s to switch between last 4 Feb 03 22:46:53 and find what I want the way I think about those things, ie. "workspace 2" and perhaps "lower left" there Feb 03 22:46:54 literally just 'pres and release alt+tab' to switch between two tasks Feb 03 22:46:57 DocScrutinizer05: well right now i don't have many windows open. but it hasn't a limit Feb 03 22:47:32 kust like MHD task switching :-D Feb 03 22:47:36 it's nitpicking now, but you still need multiples of alt-tab presses to get where you want Feb 03 22:47:37 and "lower left" might also have infinite tabs with similar stuff that one can flip through Feb 03 22:47:57 kust MHD uses ctlr-backspace Feb 03 22:48:08 damn, typing broken today Feb 03 22:48:43 parazyd: not to switch between last two tasks used Feb 03 22:49:05 ctrl-alt-backspace ftw Feb 03 22:49:20 to switch to task befor last one: alt-down tab tab alt-up Feb 03 22:49:53 i also have alt-tab to switch two latest... but as i said: nitpicking :D Feb 03 22:50:25 and shift-down inverses direction that tab clicks move through the list Feb 03 22:50:56 pressing esc before alt-up escapes from task scwitching Feb 03 22:51:51 in times before X11 I used alt-F1 to alt-F12 for that sort of thing :-) Feb 03 22:52:11 I dunno, for most workflows non-tiling simply doesn't make any sense, so much time is wasted on just finding what to have there or shooting them in some corners or whatever, I find it makes more sense to have sorta like bins of stuff like programs running and then I can shuffle through them or simply jump to something if I know what it was Feb 03 22:52:38 nowadays I usually only use vt1 and vt2 on top of X on vt7 Feb 03 22:53:42 joga: well, that's what I use mouse and taskswitcher bar on top of screen for Feb 03 22:54:17 I prefer not to use the mouse for window management Feb 03 22:54:17 mission control ^-^ Feb 03 22:54:37 scroll wheel on workspace switcher here, ms to move between stuff Feb 03 22:54:39 4-finger swipe up and i have all the windows Feb 03 22:54:49 hand on mouse is wasted time :p Feb 03 22:56:48 unless you are constatly working with text then you are likely to require the mouse for your next action anyway Feb 03 22:57:06 people sometimes say that Feb 03 22:57:13 how fucking far is the mouse from your keyboard anyway Feb 03 22:57:19 do you have four numpads Feb 03 22:57:26 :) Feb 03 22:57:28 eh Feb 03 22:57:32 my trackpad is right below the spacebar Feb 03 22:57:55 yes, I'm constantly working with text, also, mouse-requiring UIs are simply unergonomic to use with a typical laptop touchpad Feb 03 22:58:37 surfing the random webs can be ok, but it's not ok to have to constantly meddle with the mouse Feb 03 22:58:57 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Feb 03 22:59:00 not only is it slow, it's primarily uncomfortable Feb 03 22:59:12 have you considered that maybe you haven't used a good trackpad instead? Feb 03 22:59:27 thinkpads are pretty comfy Feb 03 22:59:29 yes I have used many trackpad/touchpads/nipples etc Feb 03 22:59:30 To each there own, that is the benefit of having an OS that you can customise to your taste. Feb 03 22:59:32 nipples are best Feb 03 22:59:46 still, when I go blind, I will not use a mouse anyway Feb 03 23:00:12 joga: you say it like it's a matter of time :D Feb 03 23:00:57 it might be! not that I have any condition to suggest it, but I comfort myself in the fact that my daily computing doesn't require vision necessarily :p Feb 03 23:02:37 for one, this particular work laptop has a goddawful touchpad, Lenovo Y50 (it was purchased mostly for its GPU at some point but I just ended up using it for now) Feb 03 23:03:23 yeah yogas are not the best Feb 03 23:03:25 it's the worst touchpad I've used I think, in terms of what it tries to do and how much it fails Feb 03 23:03:37 x220 touchpad isn't much better Feb 03 23:03:48 I bought a second hand x220 a while ago, but I disabled the touchpad, I prefer the nipple Feb 03 23:03:49 but i got myself using the nipple(?) mouse more Feb 03 23:03:57 rejecting taskswitcher bar because it's too uncomfortable compared to alt-tab switching and not vision-ompaired-compatible doesn't make sense. I got both and use what's more confortable to use for the task at hand Feb 03 23:04:28 in the meantime, i'm looking into the 1080p screen mod for the x220 Feb 03 23:05:03 and I can't think of any method more up to screenreader use by the vision impaired than alt-tab switching Feb 03 23:05:10 DocScrutinizer05, I think one should use what works, but this the desktop I find the most usable (not necessarily any particular layout, but the features) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/ION3_Screenshot.jpg Feb 03 23:05:38 emphasis on the *I* Feb 03 23:05:49 meh! tiled tiny windows Feb 03 23:06:27 I can't think of any window I have open right now that I have in non-maximized mode Feb 03 23:06:36 at work most of my windows are probably gitk. Feb 03 23:06:56 I rarely need two windows side by side on screen Feb 03 23:07:19 DocScrutinizer05, yeah but the thing is, it's just one keypress to fullscreen any of tem Feb 03 23:07:22 *them Feb 03 23:07:43 and yeah, I usually have my xmonad screens set to full. Feb 03 23:08:02 I like the option to set up a static frame layout for whatever I'm doing Feb 03 23:08:59