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Feb 25 07:47:01 <Oksanaaa> Is there any difference between lossy ogg and lossless flac in https://archive.org/details/GoodBadAndTheUgly-HugoMontegroOrchestra-24Bit ? My ears are too tired to tell the difference.
Feb 25 07:48:11 <Oksanaaa> Coyote would be much more sensitive, I guess; they speak very quickly, so bitrate may matter to them. 
Feb 25 07:52:47 <KotCzarny> trick with current lossy conversions is that you have to know what to look for
Feb 25 07:53:13 <KotCzarny> and with good bitrate you would need to turn up the volume quite much
Feb 25 08:10:34 <KotCzarny> often they cut 16+kHz to save bandwidth
Feb 25 08:10:55 <KotCzarny> which are hardly audible, but help sound waves to propagate
Feb 25 08:12:13 <KotCzarny> and greatly depend on music style, ie. music vs loud noise
Feb 25 08:12:15 <Maxdamantus> 16 kHz is probably a bit low a cutoff for music, probably expected for videos on youtube at 720p quality iirc
Feb 25 08:12:41 <KotCzarny> maxd, 'often' not 'always'
Feb 25 08:12:44 <Maxdamantus> V0 mp3s should usually have a cutoff around 19 or 20 kHz or something.
Feb 25 08:13:30 <KotCzarny> not to mention it also depends on your audio amp/speakers
Feb 25 08:14:01 <Maxdamantus> I remember there being a video on Youtube about this stuff from vsauce or something, and it provided a sample of a 17 kHz sine wave and said only some people would be able to hear it.
Feb 25 08:14:29 <KotCzarny> yup, we lose our hearing capabilities with age
Feb 25 08:14:31 <Maxdamantus> I couldn't hear it, but was pretty sure I could hear 17 kHz sine waves .. it just wasn't included in the 720p encoding.
Feb 25 08:15:01 <KotCzarny> simple graphical fft would provide clear answer in such case though
Feb 25 08:15:04 <Maxdamantus> Could see a cutoff below 17 kHz in the spectrogram, was audible in the 1080p version, where the spectrogram showed a solid line as expected.
Feb 25 08:15:19 <Oksanaaa> 44.1KHz sampling rate for both ogg lossy and flac lossless, in this case. Morricone music from various movies.
Feb 25 08:15:32 <KotCzarny> Oksanaaa: bitrate?
Feb 25 08:15:46 <Maxdamantus> tbh, I don't like those versions of those songs.
Feb 25 08:16:01 * Maxdamantus often listens to different versions of most of them.
Feb 25 08:16:13 <Oksanaaa> Bitrate is 96Kbps for ogg and 1466Kbps for flac
Feb 25 08:16:28 <KotCzarny> 96kbit isnt good
Feb 25 08:16:28 <Maxdamantus> Ecstacy of Gold, Fistful of Dollars, Aces High, Sixty Seconds to What, Titoli
Feb 25 08:17:07 <KotCzarny> you better grab those flacs and reencode to 160-192kbit oggs yourself
Feb 25 08:17:25 <Oksanaaa> I would like to split the tracks, it's currently just Side1 and Side2
Feb 25 08:17:41 <KotCzarny> or grab a player that understands .cue files
Feb 25 08:17:48 <Oksanaaa> Somebody scanned from vinyl, apparently
Feb 25 08:18:36 <KotCzarny> vinyl rips are interesting in that they are DIFFERENT than digital material
Feb 25 08:18:46 <KotCzarny> much warmer/vibrant
Feb 25 08:18:53 <KotCzarny> but different from original
Feb 25 08:19:21 <Maxdamantus> Though you can probably achieve the same "warmth"/"vibrance" using equalisers.
Feb 25 08:19:51 <Maxdamantus> on a theoretical 44.1 kHz digital source that the vinyl might've been made from.
Feb 25 08:19:53 <KotCzarny> maxd, possible, but tricky
Feb 25 08:20:05 <Maxdamantus> just depends on the player.
Feb 25 08:20:21 <Oksanaaa> Grabbing the flacs, definitely. Not sure they would stay on archive.org for long; 1976 doesn't sound like public domain material 
Feb 25 08:20:50 <KotCzarny> imo music should have similar timeout for copyright as patents
Feb 25 08:20:55 <KotCzarny> 15-20 years max
Feb 25 08:21:04 <KotCzarny> but that's me.
Feb 25 08:21:42 <KotCzarny> why bach family doesnt sue all those thiefs!
Feb 25 08:21:50 * Maxdamantus has "The Legendary Italian Westerns" which he converted to flac himself from CD.
Feb 25 08:21:52 <KotCzarny> what about celts heritage?
Feb 25 08:21:58 <Maxdamantus> (Ennio Morricone)
Feb 25 08:23:15 <KotCzarny> anyway, storage is cheap nowadays, so it's best to have lossless versions, and just compress for n900 etc
Feb 25 08:23:38 <Maxdamantus> Vinyl usually seems silly to me. If you want something 24-bit, why not just play the 16-bit stuff through a speaker and record it in 24-bit using a microphone?
Feb 25 08:23:41 <Maxdamantus> Similar effect.
Feb 25 08:24:38 * Maxdamantus just plays the flacs on his N900.
Feb 25 08:24:47 <Oksanaaa> Nod
Feb 25 08:25:28 <KotCzarny> :)
Feb 25 08:26:32 <Oksanaaa> Would be nice. But I don't even try to keep up with these laws. There are categories like: 1) kind artists who release music under good licence (Felipe Sarro); 2) new art which is sharply guarded against piracy (not worth the trouble); 3) old art which is shared around easily; 4) antique art which is officially in public domain. Maybe, several other categories, such as lost art, or something. 
Feb 25 08:27:41 <Maxdamantus> and yes, the logic for extending copyright seems broken to me.
Feb 25 08:27:51 <Oksanaaa> 16-bit to 24-bit upscaling makes sense only when speaker and microphone are high enough quality to actually improve the quality of the recording. 
Feb 25 08:28:07 <KotCzarny> they are just afraid people would discover old music is good and stop buying new thing ;)
Feb 25 08:28:29 <KotCzarny> *things
Feb 25 08:28:34 <Oksanaaa> Copyright extension? Copyright holders do not want to lose their source of income.
Feb 25 08:29:02 <Maxdamantus> A few years ago when people were talking about the TPPA here, there was a musician here (in NZ) that came out and said for musicians' sake the copyright duration should be extended from 50 years to 75 years because they depend on those dividends.
Feb 25 08:29:21 <Maxdamantus> His most well-known song, has since moved into the public domain.
Feb 25 08:29:34 <Oksanaaa> Nice, name?
Feb 25 08:29:38 <Maxdamantus> which is pretty much the only well-known song from NZ in that time period.
Feb 25 08:29:41 <Maxdamantus> Ray Columbus.
Feb 25 08:29:47 <Maxdamantus> he actually died recently .. maybe that's why.
Feb 25 08:31:33 <Maxdamantus> anyway, the point is that he clearly didn't make the song under the expectation that he would still be getting money from it 75 years later (I doubt he expected to be getting money from it even 20 years later), so it's hard to say that the 75-year duration encouraged him to make that music.
Feb 25 08:31:53 <Maxdamantus> which is supposedly the point of copyright: provide rights to content so people have a reason to produce it.
Feb 25 08:34:02 <Maxdamantus> This is the song btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=begMgjEBdAw
Feb 25 08:34:49 <Oksanaaa> Just phase it out slowly. Not sudden jump from copyright to public domain, but gradual change with different steps of Creative Commons inbetween.
Feb 25 08:41:20 <Oksanaaa> Thank you. Unfortunately, I am used to far less repetitive lyrics.
Feb 25 08:44:50 <KotCzarny> hehe, nice argument for 'reason to produce music'
Feb 25 08:44:58 <KotCzarny> if they are given too much, they stop
Feb 25 08:44:59 <KotCzarny> ;)
Feb 25 08:45:08 <KotCzarny> if given too little, they stop
Feb 25 08:58:04 <Oksanaaa> Lawl, limit it by sum of money, instead of number of years?
Feb 25 08:59:01 <KotCzarny> yeah, first year is big, next 5 years half of it, next 10 1/4, then stop/just donations
Feb 25 08:59:39 <KotCzarny> its funny that we live in a world with rules to forbid spreading IDEAS
Feb 25 08:59:54 <KotCzarny> unless you pay, hah
Feb 25 10:10:24 <Oksanaaa> Problem is to somehow make "money limit" depend on actual quality of the piece of art, instead of being absolute.
Feb 26 00:37:24 <jonwil> Anyone here any good at doing debian packaging?
Feb 26 00:39:19 <Pali> jonwil: hi!
Feb 26 00:39:23 <Pali> what you need?
Feb 26 00:39:43 <jonwil> Looking for a way to get http://qjson.sourceforge.net/ packaged for Fremantle
Feb 26 00:39:50 <jonwil> so I can easily use it
Feb 26 00:41:05 <Pali> copy it from debian? https://packages.debian.org/source/sid/qjson
Feb 26 00:42:14 <Pali> set debian/compat to 7, debhelper to 7 in Build-Depends debian/control
Feb 26 00:42:35 <Pali> and use debhelper7 which is available in extras
Feb 26 00:43:07 <Pali> if it fails, then adjust debian/rules to work with debhelper7
Feb 26 00:43:51 <Pali> hope this helps... now going offline
Feb 26 02:04:24 <jonwil> nope, I cant get the debian sid packaging for qjson to work.
Feb 26 02:47:15 <jonwil> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1524090#post1524090
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