**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 09 03:00:02 2017
Apr 09 04:43:12 <KotCzarny> http://www.techamok.com/?pid=18494
Apr 09 04:43:26 <KotCzarny> and we are worrying about security of our n900s ;)
Apr 09 08:52:19 <Maxdamantus> I'd be more concerned with someone hacking my phone than my TV.
Apr 09 10:23:17 <kerio> Maxdamantus: until you realize that a bunch of those "smart" TVs have a microphone
Apr 09 10:23:32 <kerio> and also constant access to high quality internet
Apr 09 10:23:39 <kerio> rather than sporadic access through mobile internet on a battery
Apr 09 10:24:19 <Maxdamantus> I wouldn't imagine sporadic access would be much of an issue.
Apr 09 10:24:31 <Maxdamantus> and people often have their phones on them wherever they go.
Apr 09 10:24:46 <Maxdamantus> so they're probably going to pick up at least everything a TV would.
Apr 09 10:24:47 <kerio> yes but it's much harder to run a botnet node on a phone
Apr 09 10:25:20 <kerio> a TV has wall power and home internet
Apr 09 10:25:20 <Maxdamantus> a botnet for what purpose? data acquisition?
Apr 09 10:25:27 <Maxdamantus> Don't see why it would be harder there.
Apr 09 10:25:40 <Maxdamantus> When the internet is available, upload the data. Done.
Apr 09 10:25:46 <kerio> because if you run a botnet node on a phone you'll run the battery dry
Apr 09 10:26:01 <Maxdamantus> Are you thinking of a DDoS node or what?
Apr 09 10:26:05 <kerio> that, too
Apr 09 10:26:14 <kerio> idk, bitcoin mining
Apr 09 10:26:43 <kerio> i mean you're not going to get randomly blackmailed through your TV
Apr 09 10:26:53 <kerio> but if it's some slightly more targeted attack, you might
Apr 09 10:27:15 <kerio> and it's waaaaay easier to stay covert in a tv than in a phone
Apr 09 10:27:48 <Maxdamantus> Why is it easier?
Apr 09 10:27:59 <kerio> because wall power and beefy internet
Apr 09 10:28:05 <kerio> likely unmetered internet
Apr 09 10:28:11 <kerio> (or metered much higher)
Apr 09 10:28:23 <Maxdamantus> I meant why is it easier to stay covert?
Apr 09 10:28:48 <kerio> because all you need is to not interfere with TV and movies
Apr 09 10:28:52 <Maxdamantus> If you're talking about data acquisition, you really shouldn't need much.
Apr 09 10:29:46 <Maxdamantus> You can probably get usable audio data into less than 4 kb/s
Apr 09 10:30:45 <kerio> except that 4kb/s through landline internet from a wall powered device is effectively nothing
Apr 09 10:30:55 <kerio> 4kb/s on a mobile connection on a battery-powered phone is HUMONGOUS
Apr 09 10:31:50 <Maxdamantus> You wouldn't actually be transmitting 4 kb/s constantly.
Apr 09 10:32:24 <Maxdamantus> You'd apply some simple filter to avoid transmitting stuff that's obviously junk.
Apr 09 10:32:39 <Maxdamantus> the 4 kb/s is only when you actually have stuff to transmit.
Apr 09 10:46:05 <kerio> ok so you're just keeping my cpu away from zero clock all the time
Apr 09 10:46:19 <kerio> yea draining my battery in like 5 hours is not going to be noticeable at all
Apr 09 10:46:26 <kerio> 10/10 malware
Apr 09 10:47:47 <Maxdamantus> I probably wouldn't notice anyway since I have an ssh connection open the vast majority of the time it's not charging.
Apr 09 10:51:12 <Maxdamantus> also, I suspect audio wouldn't be the most interesting thing.
Apr 09 10:51:40 <Maxdamantus> on a phone you have access to much more than that, and it doesn't involve running something constantly while it's meant to be in standby.
Apr 09 11:03:18 <KotCzarny> you keep forgetting that technology is changing
Apr 09 11:03:28 <KotCzarny> and smarttvs are plain computers
Apr 09 11:03:40 <KotCzarny> and there will be more and more done via tv
Apr 09 11:04:42 <KotCzarny> and actually connecting tv via broadband makes it botnet node that's more powerful than smartphone
Apr 09 11:05:01 <KotCzarny> and as mentioned earlier, almost undetectable by the user
Apr 09 11:05:33 <KotCzarny> and botnets have plenty of uses, downloaders, spammers, ddosers, blackmail proxies
Apr 09 14:19:05 <Enrico_Menotti> I have the power button working in my Debian image. Now I'd like to turn on the backlight. I'll investigate, but if meanwhile someone may point me to the right direction, I'd appreciate it a lot.
Apr 09 17:22:22 <DocScrutinizer05> sigh
Apr 09 17:22:50 <enyc> DocScrutinizer05: ??
Apr 09 17:23:13 <DocScrutinizer05> Enrico_Menotti: /sys/class/backlight/acx565akm/brightness
Apr 09 17:25:27 <Enrico_Menotti> DocScrutinizer05 There's no such file.
Apr 09 17:26:00 <DocScrutinizer05> then your drivers are crap
Apr 09 17:26:49 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm very sorry but this is exactly the point where your questions are totally off topic for this channel, mind you we're #maemo here
Apr 09 17:28:15 <DocScrutinizer05> even if I'd feel like, I coultdn't help you out since I don't know the system you built
Apr 09 17:29:23 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe that much: I used find /sys -name brightness
Apr 09 17:29:58 <Enrico_Menotti> Ok, no problem. I asked here since this is a question related to the N900 hardware (yes, also to Debian, of course).
Apr 09 17:31:30 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/29148570
Apr 09 17:33:48 <Enrico_Menotti> Thank you. I think these files are only found in Maemo. I'm trying to install the package fso-deviced-n900, which I found at Debian.org after googling a bit.
Apr 09 17:34:30 <DocScrutinizer05> excellent udea :-) finally somebody uses FSO
Apr 09 17:37:13 <Enrico_Menotti> What's FSO?
Apr 09 17:39:27 <DocScrutinizer05> FreeSmartPhone
Apr 09 17:39:43 <DocScrutinizer05> 'made by openmoko'
Apr 09 17:41:09 <DocScrutinizer05> actually by Mickey who's a senior key sw engineer of OM back when
Apr 09 17:41:26 <DocScrutinizer05> ~fso
Apr 09 17:41:26 <infobot> from memory, fso is the freesmartphone.org mobile devices middleware. http://www.freesmartphone.org//
Apr 09 17:42:02 <Enrico_Menotti> Ah ok. I didn't get the acronym.
Apr 09 17:42:59 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.freesmartphone.org//specs/org.freesmartphone.Device.Display/
Apr 09 17:43:32 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.freesmartphone.org//specs/org.freesmartphone.Device.Display/#SetBrightness
Apr 09 17:48:35 <DocScrutinizer05> re "not found" - it seems the acx565akm module is monolithic in maemo kernel. Makes sense for activating display early in boot
Apr 09 17:50:44 <DocScrutinizer05> so you need to check that acx565akm module sourcecode and docs to find what's the location/name of the backlight brightness and power control
Apr 09 17:51:22 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe even moved to /dev ?
Apr 09 17:52:10 <DocScrutinizer05> try `find /sys /dev /proc -iname brightness -ls`
Apr 09 17:52:41 <Enrico_Menotti> I got this: https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/fso-deviced/fsodeviced.1.en.html. Maybe?
Apr 09 17:53:01 <DocScrutinizer05> or `find / -path '*acx565*' -ls`
Apr 09 17:55:07 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, that sourcecode will also know where to look for that device control node
Apr 09 17:55:18 <freemangordon> Enrico_Menotti: there is something like /sys/class/backlight
Apr 09 17:55:52 <DocScrutinizer05> and I *bet* it has a node "brightness"
Apr 09 17:56:01 <DocScrutinizer05> hi freemangordon
Apr 09 17:57:02 <Enrico_Menotti> This is in Maemo, right? But I don't find such a path in Debian. Maybe I missed some step.
Apr 09 17:57:18 <DocScrutinizer05> then your kernel has no driver for the display
Apr 09 17:58:06 <DocScrutinizer05> though N900 backlight control is particularly tricky on a hw level
Apr 09 17:58:27 <DocScrutinizer05> you can enable it via two methods
Apr 09 17:59:04 <DocScrutinizer05> acx565akm as well as CPU GPIO or PWM has control over backlight
Apr 09 17:59:30 <DocScrutinizer05> never *really* understoof what Nokia built there
Apr 09 17:59:40 <DocScrutinizer05> understood*
Apr 09 18:22:38 <Enrico_Menotti> I'd like to ask a few more things, but I don't want to be off topic. Where should I head to?
Apr 09 18:26:01 <DocScrutinizer05> dcebian?
Apr 09 18:26:09 <DocScrutinizer05> debian even
Apr 09 18:26:27 <DocScrutinizer05> well, ask here, maybe it's sufficiently on topic for maemo too
Apr 09 18:27:50 <Enrico_Menotti> Well, I installed fso-deviced-n900, but I don't understand how it works. And now the power button is not working again. Is it possible that this new package has overridden Debian's standard power management, but the configuration file is not set properly?
Apr 09 18:30:04 <Sicelo> your questions are generally on topic .. just that you don't make them very easy to understand/parse :)
Apr 09 18:31:51 <Enrico_Menotti> Sicelo Sorry... :( If I may, I'd try to explain better. Please let me know what is unclear.
Apr 09 18:32:25 <Sicelo> i mean .. in general .. i have no idea about your current question, having never used that package
Apr 09 18:35:22 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, fsodeviced takes care about power button too. it's a daemon (as suggests the ending "d" in name) and you talk to it via dbus and a dbus-binding to your own app, or simply via dbus-send
Apr 09 18:37:24 <Enrico_Menotti> Before this package, I had installed acpi-support-base, and I didn't have to do anything to use it. After installation, the power button just worked fine.
Apr 09 18:37:50 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manuals/SHR#FSO_Resources
Apr 09 18:39:38 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO_Resources
Apr 09 18:44:14 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO_Resources#Automatic_way
Apr 09 18:44:27 <DocScrutinizer05> mdbus=dbus-send
Apr 09 18:44:33 <DocScrutinizer05> just better ;-)
Apr 09 18:47:12 <DocScrutinizer05> Enrico_Menotti: you're configuring a systen. So there's no drop-in functionality
Apr 09 18:47:56 <DocScrutinizer05> I.E. you can't expect to e.g. install fsodeviced and have a nice GUI to adjust backlight brightness
Apr 09 18:48:23 <DocScrutinizer05> neither does installing X11 bring you a desktop environment
Apr 09 18:50:53 <Enrico_Menotti> Ok. I'm trying to set up the daemon by working on the file system while the device is off, from my host computer. First thing, I'd like to be able to read the messages which appear at boot, in order to understand whether the daemon starts at all. But I don't find any place where they are logged. This is clearly a #debian question. I asked there. I'm waiting.
Apr 09 18:50:55 <DocScrutinizer05> and installing a standard debian system will most definitely give you systemd which in turn introduces a metric shitton of stuff you absolutely don't want on an embedded device, like SEAT management
Apr 09 18:52:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm afraid they will tell you something like "press ctrl-alt-F10 to see the console log"
Apr 09 18:52:59 <DocScrutinizer05> low level system stuff on embedded differs massively from the usual desktop PC situation
Apr 09 18:54:29 <Sicelo> if the daemon starts, surely `ps` should show it?
Apr 09 18:55:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm absolutely no expert here (ask Pali or freemangordon or a few others in here), but I guess what you want first is a kernel cmdline parameter like "consile=fb" or somesuch
Apr 09 18:55:37 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: aiui he doesn't even have a shell yet
Apr 09 18:56:00 <DocScrutinizer05> otherwise, sure
Apr 09 18:56:31 <Sicelo> where did he have backlight working?
Apr 09 18:57:01 <DocScrutinizer05> nowhere?
Apr 09 18:57:31 <Enrico_Menotti> In fact, nowhere.
Apr 09 18:58:23 <DocScrutinizer05> do you have a shell access?
Apr 09 18:58:48 <DocScrutinizer05> either ssh or console?
Apr 09 18:59:11 <Enrico_Menotti> Non root. Well, really not right now, but I know how to from yesterday. I could try to setup ssh.
Apr 09 19:00:16 <Enrico_Menotti> But I thought it would have been better first to enable power button, so I may shutdown without opening the back cover and removing the battery, and backlight, so I may read messages from the system.
Apr 09 19:00:16 <DocScrutinizer05> well, a shell to system is the very first thing you want. Usually this isn't on device (via display and kbd) in an early system bringup phase
Apr 09 19:00:38 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod: makes sense
Apr 09 19:01:06 <DocScrutinizer05> though shutdown works from console too
Apr 09 19:01:17 <Enrico_Menotti> If you are root...
Apr 09 19:01:43 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, of course. What else could you be in an early system bringup stage
Apr 09 19:02:35 <DocScrutinizer05> heck, I guess SHR has only root account as only user still today :-P
Apr 09 19:03:19 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo has one user "user" which is basically used for X11 only
Apr 09 19:03:56 <DocScrutinizer05> on boot console you're root no matter what
Apr 09 19:05:05 <DocScrutinizer05> but on enbedded, accessing console is usually tricky or even impossible
Apr 09 19:10:15 <DocScrutinizer05> Enrico_Menotti: so I got it you can log in but not as root?
Apr 09 19:11:47 <Enrico_Menotti> Well, by copying the passwd and shadow files I have been able to log in as std user. I could log as root if I'd change the password to alphabetic. I don't have proper keyboard layout. But this would mean changing password on my computer as well. Of course I could do that, if I don't find another way.
Apr 09 19:11:59 <DocScrutinizer05> how do you log in? via ssh? ssh has a config parameter that forbids root logins
Apr 09 19:12:41 <Enrico_Menotti> No, I log in on the device. I can see almost nothing, though.
Apr 09 19:12:50 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah I see
Apr 09 19:13:19 <DocScrutinizer05> so you actually already have display working (not backlight though)?
Apr 09 19:15:18 <DocScrutinizer05> log in as root is probably not even meant to be allowed at all in debian and particularly ubuntu, afaik. Anyway have you tries `sudo su -` ?
Apr 09 19:15:25 <DocScrutinizer05> tried*
Apr 09 19:16:24 <DocScrutinizer05> in debian/ubunto standard config this would ask for USER password, NOT root password
Apr 09 19:22:49 <Enrico_Menotti> Yes, I have display working, without backlight. I will also try that way. Before that, I'd like to investigate a bit more about message logging.
Apr 09 19:33:50 <DocScrutinizer05> how the heck are you going to look at logs that are root-only permission, when you don't have root access to device?
Apr 09 19:34:19 <DocScrutinizer05> get your priorities sorted
Apr 09 19:35:05 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe find a good story about system bringup somewhere
Apr 09 19:36:35 <DocScrutinizer05> inevitably fist thing is to make kernel start and have access to console. Next thing is to have a nonconsole access to device, via normal RS232 or USB or whatever terminal aka shell
Apr 09 19:36:40 <DocScrutinizer05> as ROOT
Apr 09 19:37:57 <DocScrutinizer05> console needed to debug early kernel error messages. Once you got root shell access, you can do whatever you like to bring up rest of system, configure logging, whatever
Apr 09 19:42:11 <DocScrutinizer05> as soon as you have working shell access as root, you can even look at kernel console messages in buffer, using dmesg
Apr 09 19:42:48 <Enrico_Menotti> I was thinking about reading the logs by accessing some file on the filesystem when the latter is mounted on my host computer.
Apr 09 19:42:51 <DocScrutinizer05> so when your kernel actually comes up so much you even can log in as user, GET ROOT!!!
Apr 09 19:43:54 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah sure, why bother about the basement when you could try to fix the roof 
Apr 09 19:46:44 <DocScrutinizer05> man rsyslogd
Apr 09 19:47:21 <DocScrutinizer05> to read "messages" in a logfile, you fist need to set up the logging service, for which you need root to do so
Apr 09 19:49:58 <Enrico_Menotti> I was thinking about specifying some parameter when booting the kernel. But anyway, I will try to get root.
Apr 09 19:52:18 <Zungo> yeah being non quiet will really help
Apr 09 19:53:10 <Zungo> Do everything you need by editing the filesystem then get it to run correctly
Apr 09 19:53:21 <Zungo> as joerg said, sort your priorities Enrico_Menotti 
Apr 09 19:53:53 <Zungo> :|
Apr 09 19:53:56 * Zungo shrugs
Apr 09 20:06:27 <DocScrutinizer05> let me put it this way: when you have a complete system and it doesn't come up because some services are not starting and you can't even log in (as root, or change to root, or sudo stuff with root permissions), the way to solve this is not by throwing MORE services onto the system to get some way to accomplish fixing stuff without root. The method is to DISable services as much as possible and first get root, then start the failing 
Apr 09 20:06:29 <DocScrutinizer05> service interactively (not as daemon) in a root shell and see what's the diagnostic output
Apr 09 20:08:20 <DocScrutinizer05> and the very first service you need to set up is either a mingetty or sshd to log in to the system as ROOT, to do all the rest
Apr 09 20:11:22 <Enrico_Menotti> Ok. I am root on the device. But I can see almost nothing.
Apr 09 20:12:12 <DocScrutinizer05> when you actually already got a (min)getty on a console and all that lacks is root login (or sudo su -) and the backlight, you fix the login issue and then you find the control node to enable and adjust brightness of the backlight
Apr 09 20:13:01 <DocScrutinizer05> you're lucky N900 has a transfexive display, all you need is sufficient ambient light to read console
Apr 09 20:13:30 <DocScrutinizer05> this will suffice to find and config the backlight
Apr 09 20:15:12 <Enrico_Menotti> In any case, now I'm logged in as root.
Apr 09 20:16:21 <DocScrutinizer05> great, so do `find /sys -iname '*brightness*'`
Apr 09 20:16:41 <Enrico_Menotti> I don't have the special characters on the keyboard, acc...
Apr 09 20:16:46 <Enrico_Menotti> :)
Apr 09 20:17:25 <DocScrutinizer05> find /sys -iname brightness
Apr 09 20:17:42 <Enrico_Menotti> How, if I can't type / and - ?
Apr 09 20:18:05 <DocScrutinizer05> or cd ..; cd ..; cd ..; find sys -iname brightness
Apr 09 20:18:36 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't know which mexmapping your system has
Apr 09 20:18:44 <DocScrutinizer05> keymapping*
Apr 09 20:19:54 <DocScrutinizer05> the reason why you want ssh, but that needs a network connection either via USB networking or via wifi
Apr 09 20:23:55 <DocScrutinizer05> there are other options like serial console via testpoints and debug fixture, or attach a USB or BT keyboard which needs loading the drivers for such stuff, incl USB hostmode or BT drivers
Apr 09 20:24:21 <DocScrutinizer05> you most likely don't want to do that
Apr 09 20:24:49 <DocScrutinizer05> what you want is most likely WiFi setup and then sshd access
Apr 09 20:26:58 <DocScrutinizer05> for WiFi it helps a lot if your system has that stuff already somewhat configured, so the firmware gets loaded to the wifi module and you can use ifup or sth like that
Apr 09 20:27:47 <Enrico_Menotti> I cannot do anything with this keyboard. It only has alphabetic characters. This is why I was first trying to shed some light, and adjust the keyboard. Of course I'd try to ssh. But in this situation I don't see a solution other than setting it up by accessing the file system from the host computer.
Apr 09 20:28:25 <DocScrutinizer05> then you can use ifup, ifconfig, route and iwconfig commands to connect device to WLAN
Apr 09 20:28:44 <Enrico_Menotti> ifup wlan0?
Apr 09 20:28:49 <Enrico_Menotti> How to type the 0?
Apr 09 20:29:13 <DocScrutinizer05> ahain: I don't know which keymapping you got
Apr 09 20:29:44 <Enrico_Menotti> As I said, just alphabetic characters. :(
Apr 09 20:30:13 <DocScrutinizer05> fill your .bash_history file with a few useful commands and a complete list of characters to choose from
Apr 09 20:30:27 <DocScrutinizer05> fix your kbd mappinh
Apr 09 20:33:54 <Enrico_Menotti> The bash history wouldn't work, since I don't have the up arrow either. All keys which are toggled by the blue arrow at the left of the keyboard don't work. I need to fix the kbd mapping.
Apr 09 20:35:33 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Apr 09 20:35:37 <DocScrutinizer05> obviously
Apr 09 20:37:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ~listkey mapping
Apr 09 20:37:55 <DocScrutinizer05> ~listkeys mapping
Apr 09 20:37:57 <infobot> Factoid search of 'mapping' by key (5): karnaugh mapping ;; mip mapping ;; so the memory mapping #DEL# ;; n900-kbd-mapping ;; texture mapping.
Apr 09 20:38:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ~n900-kbd-mapping
Apr 09 20:38:19 <infobot> i guess vi-kbd is http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping
Apr 09 20:41:11 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard
Apr 09 20:43:32 <DocScrutinizer05> consider https://github.com/stuart12/n900_scripts/blob/master/n900vnc maybe
Apr 09 20:45:47 <DocScrutinizer05> but that obviously will need X11 running on N900
Apr 09 20:45:59 <DocScrutinizer05> so nevermind
Apr 09 20:58:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ouch, those all are about X11 xmodmap etc
Apr 09 21:02:30 <DocScrutinizer05> Enrico_Menotti: https://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/hwdb/60-keyboard.hwdb might help
Apr 09 21:06:33 <Enrico_Menotti> DocScrutinizer05 Thank you for all your efforts. I will read carefully. Now I'm looking at the rsyslog.conf file. Maybe I may obtain some logs by setting it up properly.
Apr 09 21:06:57 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, prolly this should work
Apr 09 21:07:10 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: hi!
Apr 09 21:07:16 <DocScrutinizer05> hi! :-)
Apr 09 21:08:04 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: how to map kbd keys in a console? generically
Apr 09 21:08:42 <freemangordon> Enrico_Menotti: see, this is not your PC, you should have prepared rootfs with all the stuff in advance. keymap, for example. keymap I use in devuan http://46.249.74.23/devuan/
Apr 09 21:08:50 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: IOW where does kernel or getty or whatever do the keycode->char mapping
Apr 09 21:09:04 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: it is not kernel stuff, but userland
Apr 09 21:09:09 <freemangordon> xmodmap iirc
Apr 09 21:09:09 <DocScrutinizer05> ack
Apr 09 21:09:16 <DocScrutinizer05> xmodmap is X11
Apr 09 21:09:20 <DocScrutinizer05> no?
Apr 09 21:09:24 <freemangordon> well, kmodmap?
Apr 09 21:09:29 <DocScrutinizer05> HAH! TA!
Apr 09 21:09:41 <DocScrutinizer05> k like kernel ;-)
Apr 09 21:09:48 <freemangordon> no, no, I am not sure about the command
Apr 09 21:09:58 <freemangordon> just some vague memorieds
Apr 09 21:10:02 <freemangordon> *memories
Apr 09 21:10:15 * freemangordon checks
Apr 09 21:11:38 <DocScrutinizer05> KEYMAPS(5)  These files are used by loadkeys(1) to modify the translation tables used by the kernel keyboard driver and generated by dumpkeys(1)
Apr 09 21:12:36 <DocScrutinizer05> so `man loadkeys`
Apr 09 21:12:54 <freemangordon> ah, loadkeys :)
Apr 09 21:13:28 <Enrico_Menotti> There's one thing I don't understand in rsyslog.conf. Each row states a module, a priority, and then the log file for that. But what does the hyphen '-' at the beginning of some of the paths to the log files mean?
Apr 09 21:14:22 <DocScrutinizer05> nevermind, it's about some option with the target, like "create if doesn't exist" or whatever
Apr 09 21:15:39 <freemangordon> Enrico_Menotti: https://github.com/dyne/arm-sdk/commit/fd8978c97db097333772668e4bb67c65c4715a71
Apr 09 21:16:32 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: it is 'loadkmap' after all :)
Apr 09 21:17:04 <freemangordon> I guess k is for keyboard, not kernel
Apr 09 21:17:19 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, my manpages disagree, but ... prolly system dependent
Apr 09 21:17:46 <freemangordon> could be
Apr 09 21:18:08 <freemangordon> but ^^^ for sure works on devuan, in console
Apr 09 21:18:56 <DocScrutinizer05> wtf?! http://paste.opensuse.org/24133102
Apr 09 21:20:16 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: seems BusyBox specific
Apr 09 21:20:46 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, see the syntax error in `man` with LANG=C
Apr 09 21:21:07 <DocScrutinizer05> big fat WTF
Apr 09 21:21:19 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: I still don;t understand German :p
Apr 09 21:21:44 <DocScrutinizer05> syntax error next to unexpected token "("
Apr 09 21:22:20 <freemangordon> yeah, weird
Apr 09 21:23:56 <Enrico_Menotti> daemon.*                        -/var/log/daemon.log
Apr 09 21:24:04 <DocScrutinizer05> OOh me idiot
Apr 09 21:24:20 <DocScrutinizer05> jr@saturn:~> type man
Apr 09 21:24:21 <DocScrutinizer05> man ist ein Alias von `:(){ [ "sed" == "$1" ]||{ /usr/bin/man $1;return; }; less -f <(/usr/bin/man sed) <(wget http://sed.sourceforge.net/sed1line.txt -q -O -); };:'.
Apr 09 21:25:57 <Enrico_Menotti> There is this line in my rsyslog.conf. Does that mean that all messages from daemons are logged in that file?
Apr 09 21:28:03 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: honestly, your system locale is German?!?
Apr 09 21:28:20 <DocScrutinizer05> on user yes
Apr 09 21:28:21 <freemangordon> de.DE-UTF8?
Apr 09 21:28:24 <freemangordon> omg
Apr 09 21:28:48 <DocScrutinizer05> still fail to grok why the alias breaks with LANG=C
Apr 09 21:29:37 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe aliases are a tad tricky with "NAME=foo CMD"
Apr 09 21:30:13 <DocScrutinizer05> I have a hard time thinking it could change $0 or $1 but who knows
Apr 09 21:30:24 <freemangordon> anyway, /me is running towards bed
Apr 09 21:30:29 <freemangordon> night guys
Apr 09 21:30:35 <DocScrutinizer05> n8 :-)
Apr 09 21:30:56 <Enrico_Menotti> Good night! :)
Apr 09 21:31:08 <DocScrutinizer05> Enrico_Menotti: might mean that, yeah
Apr 09 21:31:24 <Enrico_Menotti> So why no such file on my system?!?
Apr 09 21:31:37 <DocScrutinizer05> and the -/ *might* mean "end processing here", not sure
Apr 09 21:32:17 <Enrico_Menotti> In what sense?
Apr 09 21:33:23 <DocScrutinizer05> >>-/var/log/syslog means log to the file /var/log/syslog. The preceding dash tells syslogd not to call fsync(), i.e. do not flush the kernel buffer to disk after every write to the file.<<
Apr 09 21:34:57 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly all you need is a line *.* /var/log/syslog or the like
Apr 09 21:35:28 <Enrico_Menotti> Ok let me try.
Apr 09 21:35:41 <DocScrutinizer05> it logs all to that file, and nevermind the rest
Apr 09 21:36:08 <DocScrutinizer05> when rsyslog doesn't get started during boot though, you won't see that file either
Apr 09 21:36:38 <DocScrutinizer05> rsyslog is a service aka daemon
Apr 09 21:37:03 <DocScrutinizer05> without it, all you got is dmesg
Apr 09 21:37:37 <DocScrutinizer05> dmesg reads directly from the kernel log buffer
Apr 09 21:38:07 <Enrico_Menotti> But no way to tell the system to write the kernel log buffer to some file?
Apr 09 21:38:08 <DocScrutinizer05> dmesg(1) - print or control the kernel ring buffer
Apr 09 21:38:23 <DocScrutinizer05> rsyslog start scripts do that
Apr 09 21:39:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ("write the kernel log buffer to some file" that is)
Apr 09 21:39:45 <Enrico_Menotti> Ok, I modified the rsyslog.config with a line *.* /var/log/enrico.log. Let's see what happens, ok?
Apr 09 21:41:30 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Apr 09 21:42:17 <DocScrutinizer05> but make sure you have the startscripts err *cough* systemd unit files whatevertheneme for rsyslogd
Apr 09 21:43:07 <DocScrutinizer05> do NOT ask me about feckin systemd-journald an d journalctrl
Apr 09 21:43:42 <DocScrutinizer05> after all this is why maemo decided to re-associate to devuan
Apr 09 21:45:24 <Enrico_Menotti> ... I had read in fact about journalctrl. I was indeed wondering how to fetch it. :)
Apr 09 21:45:59 <DocScrutinizer05> ~systemd
Apr 09 21:45:59 <infobot> systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, H. Hoyer, D. Mack, T. Gundersen, D. Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel. See ~nosystemd"
Apr 09 21:46:12 <DocScrutinizer05> ~nosystemd
Apr 09 21:46:13 <infobot> [nosystemd] https://devuan.org http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/
Apr 09 21:46:57 <Enrico_Menotti> :D
Apr 09 21:47:40 <DocScrutinizer05> when you want to run a systemd based system, you're definitely in the wrong channel for any help here
Apr 09 21:49:01 <Enrico_Menotti> ... I did not know. Sorry.
Apr 09 21:50:30 <DocScrutinizer05> http://blog.gerhards.net/2011/11/journald-and-rsyslog.html
Apr 09 21:56:25 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Backward compatibility may actually be not that important ***on a _typical_ desktop system***<<
Apr 09 21:56:53 <DocScrutinizer05> >>However, in an enterprise environment such harsh moves can not be done<<
Apr 09 21:57:45 <DocScrutinizer05> >>For those in the need, a syslogd can run alongside journald<<
Apr 09 21:59:06 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Thinking about home desktop machines, Laptops and a myriad of other personal computers: Rsyslog runs on (almost) all of them, and nobody knows it does ;) The folks operating these machines are not at all interested in logging, so I think it is a valid assumption that none of them will care which logging system is running. <<
Apr 09 21:59:55 <DocScrutinizer05> or if journald fies in a dark wet stinking place
Apr 09 21:59:59 <DocScrutinizer05> dies*
Apr 09 22:00:15 <Enrico_Menotti> Cannot get any log. Uff.
Apr 09 22:00:16 <DocScrutinizer05> go devuan!
Apr 09 22:01:06 <DocScrutinizer05> hey, you can type `ps aux` right?, check if rsyslogd or systemd-journald is running
Apr 09 22:01:31 <Enrico_Menotti> Ok, a minute.
Apr 09 22:03:05 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/70811019
Apr 09 22:03:15 <DocScrutinizer05> my opensuse systemd infested shit
Apr 09 22:03:35 <DocScrutinizer05> at least it runs rsyslogd TOO
Apr 09 22:04:46 <DocScrutinizer05> or use ps aux|egrep '(journ|syslog)'
Apr 09 22:05:13 <DocScrutinizer05> well, you still lack the pipe symbol, right?
Apr 09 22:05:33 <DocScrutinizer05> this is damn tedious
Apr 09 22:05:44 <Enrico_Menotti> Right. But I see there is rsyslogd. And systemd-journald as well.
Apr 09 22:06:04 <DocScrutinizer05> dmesg
Apr 09 22:06:12 <Enrico_Menotti> Yes, lot of info.
Apr 09 22:06:25 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, and again no pipe for dmesg|less
Apr 09 22:07:15 <Enrico_Menotti> No.
Apr 09 22:07:42 <Enrico_Menotti> But it wouldn't be useful, since I can't almost read.
Apr 09 22:08:46 <Enrico_Menotti> Ok, now's bed time. I will think about it tomorrow. Good night! :)
Apr 09 22:08:48 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Apr 09 22:09:18 <DocScrutinizer05> with a > you could do dmesg >/mysystem.log
Apr 09 22:09:24 <DocScrutinizer05> tedious
Apr 09 22:10:09 <DocScrutinizer05> I think you won't have much fun with all this until you get ssh access
Apr 09 22:10:19 <Enrico_Menotti> Yes, probable.
Apr 09 22:10:50 <Enrico_Menotti> I could write a script. But to launch it I'd need ./ , right?
Apr 09 22:12:20 <DocScrutinizer05> well, unless . is element of your $PATH or your script is placed in $PATH
Apr 09 22:13:28 <Enrico_Menotti> It's another idea. Will see. For now, zzz.
Apr 09 22:18:10 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd read about bash 'bind' to map some existing key to history_whatever_backward_recall
Apr 09 22:19:10 <DocScrutinizer05> previous-history can be found on "\C-p", "\eOA", "\e[A".
Apr 09 22:19:39 <DocScrutinizer05> so if arrow-up doesn't work, maybe ctrl-p does
Apr 09 22:20:36 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd really fill history with a few useful commands, or alternatively define aliases
Apr 09 22:21:56 <DocScrutinizer05> edit ~/.alias
Apr 09 22:23:29 <DocScrutinizer05> for complex stuff, define function(){ ... ... } in ~/.profile or ~/.bashrc
Apr 09 22:27:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ohmy, just checked on my debian server. Debian bash config is so braindead and rudimentary
Apr 09 22:29:56 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/9990271
Apr 09 22:30:46 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a shame#
Apr 09 22:39:05 <DocScrutinizer05> Enrico_Menotti: anyway create a file ~/ali  with content similar to http://paste.opensuse.org/83608614, then type `cd`  and  `source ali` in your shell. should go a long way
Apr 09 23:00:51 <DocScrutinizer05> one alias for example could be ifupwlan="ifup wlan0123456789", then you call ifupwlen, then ctrl+p for fetching it again, then delete all digits you don't need to finally make it look like "ifup usb7"
Apr 09 23:02:53 <DocScrutinizer05> likewise make a xcd="cd ~///////" which you can turn in almost everything you need, like "~/myscript" or "source /root/myscript" or whatever
Apr 09 23:05:24 <DocScrutinizer05> g="$ ~//////$ ~///////$ <&~////// >&~/////// | !"
Apr 09 23:06:48 <DocScrutinizer05> rather make that g="#$ ~//////$ ~///////$ <&~////// >&~/////// | !"
Apr 09 23:12:36 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm doesn't fly yet
Apr 09 23:16:09 <DocScrutinizer05> alias g=echo '#$ ~//////$ ~///////$ <&~////// >&~/////// | \!' >~/xx; history -r ~/xx"
Apr 09 23:18:57 <DocScrutinizer05> alias g=echo '#$ ~//////$ ~///////$ <&~////// >&~/////// | \!\!' >~/xx; history -r ~/xx"
Apr 09 23:21:11 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh
Apr 09 23:22:11 <DocScrutinizer05> alias g=echo '#$ ~//////$ ~///////$ <0123456789&~////// >01234&01234~/////// | \!\!' >~/xx; history -r ~/xx"
Apr 09 23:29:32 <DocScrutinizer05> alias e='export zero=0 one=1 two=2 [...] nine=9 pipe="|" slash=/ amp="&" [...]; echo "$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$" >~/xx; history -r ~/xx'
Apr 09 23:29:42 <DocScrutinizer05> ctrl+p
Apr 09 23:30:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ifup wkan$zero
Apr 09 23:36:13 <DocScrutinizer05> jr@saturn:~> alias e='export zero=0 one=1 two=2 nine=9 pipe="|" slash=/ amp="&"; echo \\'\\$\\$\\$\\$\\' >~/xx; history -r ~/xx'
Apr 09 23:36:14 <DocScrutinizer05> jr@saturn:~> e
Apr 09 23:36:16 <DocScrutinizer05> jr@saturn:~> echo $one 
Apr 09 23:36:17 <DocScrutinizer05> 1
Apr 09 23:36:25 <DocScrutinizer05> oops sorry, was ment to be a pastebin
Apr 09 23:37:17 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/8748460
Apr 10 00:29:07 <DocScrutinizer05> jr@saturn:~> eval echo $one $amp$amp echo $slash$nine
Apr 10 00:29:08 <DocScrutinizer05> 1
Apr 10 00:29:10 <DocScrutinizer05> /9
Apr 10 00:50:55 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/22716030
Apr 10 00:51:19 <DocScrutinizer05> Enrico_Menotti: ^^^
Apr 10 00:58:23 <DocScrutinizer05> Enrico_Menotti: this shozuld help you out with kbd mapping missing chars. You can define all the chars you want (and often you don't even need the eval, only when you need to substitue chars that are 'talking to' the shell itself like | or > or &&)
Apr 10 00:59:10 <DocScrutinizer05> onviously you'd create an alias file like suggested before, to define the e alias
Apr 10 01:02:02 <DocScrutinizer05> so on PC you create ~/ali with the >>alias e='export zero=0 one=..." in it. On device you do `cd; source ali` once, then for a command do `e` and ctrl+p and edit the "\${}${}${}${}${}${}${}${}${}${}" commandline to look like "eval echo ${minus}e "x${bslash}ny" ${pipe} wc ${minus}l" or whatever you like
Apr 10 01:40:08 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/64262304
Apr 10 01:52:58 <Maxdamantus> I just use a map where I can already type all the printable ASCII characters.
Apr 10 01:53:25 <Maxdamantus> except maybe `, not sure if my map (as in the one loaded by loadkeys) has that.
Apr 10 01:53:50 <Maxdamantus> it's Dvorak-based anyway, so presumably not useful for anyone else.
Apr 10 01:54:22 <Maxdamantus> it corresponds to the one I'm using right now in maemo in normal Xorg.
Apr 10 01:56:17 <Maxdamantus> Actually, I don't load it with loadkeys. I just have it built into the kernel.
Apr 10 01:58:38 <Maxdamantus> http://maxdamantus.eu.org/n900-keys-dvorak.txt
Apr 10 02:03:08 <DocScrutinizer05> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_code#Linux :-/
Apr 10 02:05:24 <Maxdamantus> Well, I think support is probably better in applications that run on Linux than in Windows .. I have a feeling you're meant to enter the codepoints in octal or decimal or something.
Apr 10 02:05:53 <Maxdamantus> of course, the kernel doesn't support anything like that, but as mentioned, the standard toolkits do.
Apr 10 02:06:18 <Maxdamantus> they both (gtk and qt) support ctrl-shift-u for entering codepoints in hex.
Apr 10 02:06:49 <Maxdamantus> in urxvt, you have to hold ctrl and shift, which is a bit harder on N900.
Apr 10 02:08:16 <Maxdamantus> ctrl-shift-u even works in osso-xterm
Apr 10 02:08:24 <Maxdamantus> but that's still tricky to enter.
Apr 10 02:08:43 <Maxdamantus> Hm, might be slightly easier on QWERTY.
Apr 10 02:12:54 <Maxdamantus> That Wikipedia article says you can enter them in hex in Window if you make a modification to the registry.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Apr 10 03:00:00 2017