**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 17 03:00:02 2017
Apr 17 07:08:44 <sicelo> i thought pagurus was going to test his irc stuff elesewhere ...
Apr 17 07:09:02 <KotCzarny> is he even alive?
Apr 17 07:27:09 <sicelo> you mean online now? no
Apr 17 07:27:26 <sicelo> but i think yesterday he promised something to that effect
Apr 17 07:45:15 <DocScrutinizer05> again spam?
Apr 17 07:45:57 <DocScrutinizer05> holler if you want sth getting fone about it, I don't see such stuff
Apr 17 07:46:10 <DocScrutinizer05> s/fone/done/
Apr 17 07:46:10 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: holler if you want sth getting done about it, I don't see such stuff
Apr 17 07:48:36 <KotCzarny> it seems to got fixed, for now
Apr 17 08:04:33 <sicelo> 01:11 < DocScrutinizer05> it kist lacks to show recent state, though that had been very very easy via indicator LED
Apr 17 08:04:36 <sicelo> 01:11 < DocScrutinizer05> just*
Apr 17 08:05:02 <DocScrutinizer05> so?
Apr 17 08:05:09 <sicelo> possibly deemed unnecessary as Maemo resets that sticky state as son as another program comes to the foreground
Apr 17 08:05:14 <sicelo> so it's not global
Apr 17 08:05:23 <sicelo> (as soon as ... )
Apr 17 08:06:07 <DocScrutinizer05> well, that's both puzzling and a flawed design, and doesn't really jelp with making lock state more clear
Apr 17 08:06:26 <DocScrutinizer05> no, Nokia thought that notifier banner was sufficient
Apr 17 08:07:05 <sicelo> it's only sticky while you're actually in the program you 'stickied' in .. so you know what you did :)
Apr 17 08:07:12 <DocScrutinizer05> but that notifier only shows up for like 2 seconds
Apr 17 08:07:25 <KotCzarny> led backlight under sticky keys would be sweet
Apr 17 08:07:25 <DocScrutinizer05> shit no!
Apr 17 08:08:09 <sicelo> KotCzarny: perhaps neo900 should have it ;)
Apr 17 08:08:19 <KotCzarny> who knows?
Apr 17 08:08:23 <DocScrutinizer05> same rationale applied to dialer would result in "why display the number you're typing, you know what you're doing"
Apr 17 08:08:40 <DocScrutinizer05> sicelo: have waht?
Apr 17 08:08:57 <sicelo> < KotCzarny> led backlight under sticky keys would be sweet
Apr 17 08:08:59 <sicelo> ^^
Apr 17 08:09:37 <DocScrutinizer05> Neo900 is planned with 3color backlight and 3 monocrome indicator LEDs next to the leftmost keys
Apr 17 08:10:24 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd probably prefer backlight switching from white to orange on capslock and from white to blue on Fn
Apr 17 08:11:16 <DocScrutinizer05> but yeah, we will try to employ one or 2 of the indicator LEDs left of keyboard for that
Apr 17 08:11:26 <sicelo> (personally i rarely, if ever, look at the state of my Caps Lock indicator on computer/laptop ... just saying)
Apr 17 08:13:47 <DocScrutinizer05> it particularly sucks when you accidentally locked shift. You notice one char UC, then you wonder if it was sticky and thus reset or it's locked. So you type a second char just to check. Or you press shit again, just to learn it been sticky and you made another sticky
Apr 17 08:14:50 <DocScrutinizer05> or you press shift as long as notifier shows up, and then once more >:-(
Apr 17 08:15:29 <DocScrutinizer05> whatever you do, it's an annoyance
Apr 17 08:17:30 <DocScrutinizer05> and God beware you're facing this situation in stuff similar to NM, where one keypress causes an action you can't revert, and there are UC and lc keys with different meaning
Apr 17 08:17:43 <DocScrutinizer05> BM*
Apr 17 08:18:16 <sicelo> i don't think sticky keys work there, isn't it?
Apr 17 08:18:25 <DocScrutinizer05> in BM not
Apr 17 08:18:40 <DocScrutinizer05> but that's because there's no system at all at that point
Apr 17 08:19:13 <sicelo> yes
Apr 17 08:19:24 <DocScrutinizer05> though I didn't test, maybe it does (when it's getting handled in kernel kbd driver)
Apr 17 08:23:25 <DocScrutinizer05> ((i rarely, if ever, look at the state of my Caps Lock)) you also rarely press shift twice to emulate capslock on your PC, right?
Apr 17 08:25:49 <DocScrutinizer05> call my old and senile nut I happened to press shift, then release it since I started to wonder if I _really_ wanted to type that char (for whatever reason, be it wording or the door ringing), then a few seconds or minutes later I press shift again, plus a char, then on next char I start swearing
Apr 17 08:27:36 <DocScrutinizer05> if any state in a computer is sticky, you need feedback about what's the current state. If it's a sticky state in a HID, you need feedback directly on the HID and constantly
Apr 17 08:30:22 <DocScrutinizer05> you won't prolly find a single keyboard whit capslock, scroll lock, numlock, and no LEDs for showing the state. Unless it's one of those age old keyboards that actually have mechanical toggle pushbuttons that "stay pressed" mechanically and visibly until you push them again
Apr 17 08:35:27 <KotCzarny> onscreen-ontop-sticky display could work too (for some people, so definitely as an option)
Apr 17 08:35:58 <Maxdamantus> only sticky thing I use on a normal computer is numlock .. sometimes use mouse buttons and need to have it in some state for that.
Apr 17 08:36:28 <Maxdamantus> can't remember which state does which, I just press numlock until it works the way I want.
Apr 17 08:36:44 <Maxdamantus> capslock is instead mapped to F13, and dunno what scrolllock does.
Apr 17 08:39:02 <Maxdamantus> Interesting. Apparently scroll lock freezes console output in Linux. Good to know.
Apr 17 08:39:20 <Maxdamantus> Presumably at a lower level than something like ctrl-s
Apr 17 08:39:33 <Maxdamantus> oh wait, it's just another way of writing ctrl-s
Apr 17 08:41:14 <jonwil> hi
Apr 17 08:53:43 <KotCzarny> lol, that's why it's called SCROLL LOCK
Apr 17 08:53:44 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 17 09:17:10 <Maxdamantus> but ctrl-s doesn't exactly lock the scroll.
Apr 17 09:17:25 <Maxdamantus> it blocks any output.
Apr 17 09:21:57 <KotCzarny> it's from the times when screens were the teletypes
Apr 17 09:22:08 <KotCzarny> and virtual consoles emulate it
Apr 17 10:01:54 <merlin1991>  you won't prolly find a single keyboard whit capslock, scroll lock, numlock, and no LEDs for showing the state ... my acer notebook
Apr 17 10:02:12 <merlin1991> *headdesks*
Apr 17 10:04:14 <KotCzarny> merlin1991: some chinese and laptop kb ;)
Apr 17 10:04:45 <KotCzarny> hp/lenovo they suck at it and removed useful indicators (*locks and hdd activity often)
Apr 17 10:05:24 <merlin1991> The acer still has the hdd led, but no lock leds :/
Apr 17 10:19:45 <CcxWrk> What is the current way to get stock N900 install up to date?
Apr 17 10:19:55 <kerio> CSSU
Apr 17 10:20:03 <kerio> https://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
Apr 17 10:20:27 <CcxWrk> Thanks
Apr 17 11:09:38 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: my SIP over vpn thing is unreliable if i don't redirect the whole internet through the VPN :(
Apr 17 11:11:27 <KotCzarny> then do that? problem solved
Apr 17 11:12:43 <kerio> nah i should set up asterisk
Apr 17 12:16:31 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: my brain hurts :<
Apr 17 12:17:02 <KotCzarny> have you tried turning your brain off and on again?
Apr 17 12:22:41 <kerio> this shit is worse than sendmail
Apr 17 13:09:19 <xes> kerio: have tried to fix the account ip with mc-toll? have you enable sip/rtp conntracking into your home router?
Apr 17 13:09:36 <xes> *mc-tool
Apr 17 15:10:37 <Enrico_Menotti> Ok, I have Debian running on the n900, keyboard quite fine, and wifi access. Also ssh. I'd like to adjust a couple of things, and then I'll move towards Devuan.
Apr 17 15:13:03 <Enrico_Menotti> 1. I have been able to customise the keyboard by editing the symbols file (<xkbroot>/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51) and running setupcon. But before that I had to remove the cached files in /etc/console-setup. If I run setupcon with the --save option, these files are recreated. But the system somehow doesn't use them - setupcon keeps on creating a new tmp file and loading that.
Apr 17 15:15:59 <Enrico_Menotti> 2. The wireless driver seems to generate a new mac address in a random way at each boot. So the system keeps on creating new wlan interfaces at each reboot. I'd like to have the wlan named wlan0 at each boot. I think I have to edit /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules. But so far the only way I have found to reference the wireless device is via the mac address. How may I reference it in a unique way?
Apr 17 15:17:34 <Enrico_Menotti> 3. I tried to install usbutils and run lsusb, but that fails. From some debugging, I found out that the system doesn't find usbfs. Is it possible that Pali's rx51_defconfig file does not enable usb support?
Apr 17 15:47:20 <DocScrutinizer05> that's all very much OT for maemo
Apr 17 15:48:51 <DocScrutinizer05> IOW in maemo we either don't have the problem or we have a working solution, for all your "debian problem" points you listed so far
Apr 17 15:52:33 <DocScrutinizer05> ~h-e-n
Apr 17 15:52:33 <infobot> i guess hen is hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode
Apr 17 15:52:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ~hostmode
Apr 17 15:52:45 <infobot> hostmode is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=652330, or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ, or see ~hostmode-powered
Apr 17 16:16:56 <DocScrutinizer05> IOW with a stock kernel you're *always* out of luck with USBhostmode on N900
Apr 17 16:17:17 <DocScrutinizer05> I wasted over a year into solving this issue
Apr 17 16:32:12 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=643577
Apr 17 19:54:23 <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qecPQ0FB-64
Apr 17 20:03:44 <sicelo> context?
Apr 17 20:07:42 <sicelo> haha that's a crazy thing
Apr 17 20:10:36 <Maxdamantus> Enrico_Menotti: if you're just trying to use the device as a USB gadget, you'd load one of the g_ modules.
Apr 17 20:11:19 <Maxdamantus> Enrico_Menotti: a USB device is traditionally meant to be a gadget or a host, not both.
Apr 17 20:11:50 <Maxdamantus> though N900's controller happens to be able to work as both.
Apr 17 21:17:41 <Enrico_Menotti> Thank you for the answers. I didn't realise the difference between gadget and host. Anyway, in order to get details about the usb interface, is lsusb the right command, or this command is only useful in host mode?
Apr 17 21:22:00 <Enrico_Menotti> In any case, at this point, in a few days, I will move to Devuan. I hope this will not be off topic anymore, and maybe it could be of interest to others, not only an exercise for me to learn how to deal with different OS's.
Apr 17 21:50:37 <Maxdamantus> `lsusb` is for USB hosts
Apr 17 21:51:02 <Maxdamantus> since it shows information based on device descriptors of connected devices
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 18 03:00:01 2017