**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 03 03:00:02 2017 Jul 03 06:59:44 https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=149902196520920&w=2 Jul 03 07:00:22 w00t? Jul 03 07:01:34 followup to https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237 Jul 03 07:10:29 :D Jul 03 07:10:44 just read that one Jul 03 07:10:49 failure Jul 03 07:11:17 love the usual #not-a-bug response ;) Jul 03 07:11:47 "I question the simplicity of this patch due to the fact that it leaves no head room for further security-related regressions. Maybe more progressive over-engineering of the code is a better course of action." Jul 03 07:11:52 :)) Jul 03 07:17:58 > yeah, where's the dbus integration? Jul 03 08:13:21 so... that crap of skype is still working? Jul 03 08:13:45 good question Jul 03 08:15:53 do we have any possibility to integrate into maemo accounts any libpurple "glue" to add new services? Jul 03 08:17:08 maemo uses telepathy Jul 03 08:17:18 you can glue purple plugins to telepathy using haze Jul 03 08:17:33 let me test skype. according to email they had sent me earlier it shouldn't Jul 03 08:17:49 xes: which services/protocols do you have in mind to add/gule? Jul 03 08:17:52 *glue Jul 03 08:22:28 sicelo: well i'm used with bitlbee where you can add any libpurple service like: skypeweb/telegram/libsteam/matrix/facebook/hangouts... Jul 03 08:24:28 wonder if those versions are even remotely compatible still Jul 03 08:26:02 telegram works with libpurple (someone patched it for maemo) Jul 03 08:26:35 I couldn't build hangout (libjson is too old) Jul 03 08:27:12 as for gluing it with telepathy I didn't succeed in using libtelegram with telepathy Jul 03 08:27:37 yes i know bitlbee :-) Jul 03 08:27:44 btw, skype logged in just fine Jul 03 08:28:52 voice call working too Jul 03 08:29:05 wow Jul 03 08:29:07 yes telegram working on N900 via Pidgin Jul 03 08:33:54 but pidgin is a bit ...too fat. Have the possibility to add those services into maemo "native" account manager would ensure a nice perspective for the future Jul 03 08:35:31 anyway, yes. Skype is still working also on standard 4.3 linux version. But we can expect any suprise Jul 03 08:38:12 xes: the thing is, the telepathy we're using is a bit ... old Jul 03 08:38:17 (as usual) Jul 03 08:38:46 and our telepathy client (rtcom-messaging-ui in this case) would lack quite a few features Jul 03 08:39:01 it can't display much apart from text (or ~html) afaict Jul 03 08:39:13 presumably the frontend is gtk Jul 03 08:39:54 it's not just gtk Jul 03 08:42:04 and we also don't support captchas or other 2FA mechanisms needed for adding new telegram account for example Jul 03 08:44:18 hmm Jul 03 08:44:30 last time I tried creating a telegram account using pidgin it worked Jul 03 08:44:40 that was ... 6 months ago I think Jul 03 08:44:56 (it was a pain, but worked eventually) Jul 03 08:45:24 bencoh: and do you think something could be tweaked to fit maemo? Jul 03 08:45:55 xes: you'd need to RE rtcom-messaging-ui first (and/or replace it with FOSS) Jul 03 08:46:31 as for telepathy being old, iirc newer telepathy versions require a newer glib Jul 03 08:46:41 (libglib) Jul 03 08:47:51 or go with pidgin, which isn't great, but it's not that bad Jul 03 08:48:08 pidgin for maemo has room for improvment, but it's usable Jul 03 08:48:26 bah...after every corner there is another wall to hit Jul 03 08:49:35 less so when rebased on devuan :) Jul 03 08:49:40 xes: which is why the best course of action is probably rebasing on top of a modern distro (like the devuan port/rebase some guys are working on) Jul 03 08:52:13 bencoh: yes sure, but IM integration is a basic requirement for many and on maemo is working very well with supported protocols Jul 03 08:53:27 true Jul 03 09:00:32 L29Ah: What The Fuck?! Poettering analyzes parameter VALUES for syntactical correctness and when incorrect ignores the whole parameter??? that's so terribly fucked up logic Jul 03 09:00:54 http://i.imgur.com/nY9owbg.png Jul 03 09:01:19 HEHE nice one, alas almost true Jul 03 09:04:18 yes Jul 03 09:05:17 bencoh: yes pidgin does work. i meant maemo's telepathy Jul 03 09:06:01 go figure! user=Øtto (and user=otto ) are invalid PARAMETERS and thus silently ignored, while user=nonexistent results in the expected reject Jul 03 09:06:53 ignored user=666poettering results in user=root Jul 03 09:07:02 I thought it resulted in uid=6 Jul 03 09:07:12 sicelo: ah, right Jul 03 09:07:36 nope, the whole parameter gets ignored and thus the unit file is run as default (aka root) Jul 03 09:08:04 at least that's what poettering claims it does and is intended behavior Jul 03 09:09:19 what pile of shit must have replaced your brain to come up with such a spec? Jul 03 09:10:33 he probably just wrote the code and didn't think of it, and now seems it as desirable to save face Jul 03 09:10:40 s/seems/sees/ Jul 03 09:10:40 Wizzup meant: he probably just wrote the code and didn't think of it, and now sees it as desirable to save face Jul 03 09:10:47 it's even worse than "when there's no proper config, 9.9.9.9 is the default fallback" Jul 03 09:11:07 8.8.8.8* Jul 03 09:11:08 8.8.8.8 sorry Jul 03 09:12:49 same like "umask default is 777 everywhere, unless you explicitly restrict it further" in systemd Jul 03 09:13:23 those folks have no fucking clue about coding at large Jul 03 09:16:47 doc: i bet it's done on purpose, thought there is a saying 'never confuse malice with stupidity' Jul 03 09:41:20 Typical, blame everything else before you even consider you have a bug. Jul 03 09:41:49 and even then, say it's 'the policy and it's expected' Jul 03 09:42:39 some guy in other channel used that as an argument Jul 03 09:43:37 I fail to see how that isn't one or even multiple issues rolled into one. Jul 03 09:57:11 bencoh: do you know if anyone has ever tried ktp-call-ui on maemo? Jul 03 10:22:57 https://github.com/fremantle-gtk2/hildon-desktop/blob/gtk2-clutter-1.x/src/mb/hd-comp-mgr.h#L41 Jul 03 10:23:13 what's the best way to fix this in case X server is in portrait orientation? Jul 03 10:59:30 sicelo: for the compiled perl stuff to irssi deb you need to add into the debian/irssi.install file, following path: debian/tmp/usr/lib/perl Jul 03 11:01:15 and not specifing configure parameter --with-perl-lib Jul 03 11:14:18 makes sense. did you test in SB? Jul 03 11:14:38 i'll try it later today Jul 03 11:19:39 i tried in sb and now irssi.pm and others are included in deb Jul 03 11:20:54 cool Jul 03 11:22:11 funny that building 0.8.17 years ago was way smoother when i did the wrong thing. doing right thing is harder :) Jul 03 11:24:35 hehe yeah making right deb could blow your head Jul 03 12:17:11 xes: I don't think anyone tried it, but who knows Jul 03 16:19:54 when N900 is in portrait, does actual rotation happen in xrandr? Jul 03 16:30:53 TheKit: clutter, afaik Jul 03 16:36:20 I get ** (hildon-desktop:23474): WARNING **: CRTC does not support rotation (0x00000001 vs. 0x00000002) if I try to force portrait mode in code Jul 03 16:37:46 on what device is that? Jul 03 16:38:40 just Xvnc on Android phone Jul 03 16:39:20 the problem is hildon-desktop won't display properly if screen width is greater than height (say 720x1280) Jul 03 16:39:27 could it be that clutter is acting? Jul 03 16:39:50 as h-d works through clutter_stage, iirc Jul 03 16:40:24 hmm, wait, it could be something in matchbox Jul 03 16:41:21 https://github.com/fremantle-gtk2/libmatchbox2/blob/master/matchbox/core/mb-window-manager.c#L575 Jul 03 16:41:47 TheKit: hmm, right Jul 03 16:43:51 TheKit: anyway, iirc h-d expects to be started in landscape, it misbehaves otherwise. Maybe a piece of code needs to be added that detects in what mode it is started Jul 03 16:47:34 sicelo: I can confirm that my irssi build with dpkg-buildpackage has perl support. For the mouse/nickname script I needed to activate the nokia apps mirror and installing perl-modules Jul 03 16:53:59 freemangordon, I suppose it does something like this already for portrait lock: https://github.com/fremantle-gtk2/hildon-desktop/blob/master/src/main.c#L798 Jul 03 17:34:41 freemangordon: ((h-d expects to be started in landscape)) makes sense, see N8x0/maemo4 Jul 03 17:35:23 maemo genuine mode always been landscape, I guess Jul 03 17:37:32 in Pyra they had to add a hw-rotator chip into video interface, sunce nowadays it's seemingly impossible to find LCD displays that work (scan) in portrait mode Jul 03 17:40:28 and it's one of the most bewildering facts that even allegedly versatile video cards like the OMAP embedded stuff seem to have no scanning mode other than top left to right progressive or maybe interlaced down Jul 03 17:46:41 you'd think a decent videoram scanning hardware should consist of massively programmable counters that allow arbitrary address offsets after every pixel that got read out, plus at least 2 layers of pixelcounters that, when reaching zero, apply new settings (offset, skew) to that first level pixel counters after an arbitrary number of pixels, to scan next line or start next partial (interlaced) or full (progressive) screen scan Jul 03 17:47:45 Amiga's copper would have been up to that task, contemporary OMAP5 seems not to Jul 03 17:48:19 optimization at costs cutting vs hobbyist hardware Jul 03 17:48:33 can't compare :P Jul 03 17:52:39 compare copperlist Jul 03 17:53:48 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Chip_Set#Copper Jul 03 18:06:48 in GPD Win rotation is handled in software (portrait panel mounted into laptop-like shell) Jul 03 18:07:09 then otoh you could argue such address translation should get done while *writing* into the video ram, not while reading it out Jul 03 18:08:41 but ehrn doing it in write, you run into massive problems with DMA-like blits Jul 03 18:09:11 s/ehrn/when/ Jul 03 18:09:12 DocScrutinizer05 meant: but when doing it in write, you run into massive problems with DMA-like blits Jul 03 18:13:17 seems like using any of those nifty gfx accelerators for that is the way to go, zhey can do 3D rendering so they should be well up to the task of transcoding / scrambling the addr sequence of pixels in videobuffer Jul 03 18:14:04 is replacing N900 screen dangerous? Jul 03 18:14:10 no Jul 03 18:14:12 ty Jul 03 18:14:14 not at all Jul 03 18:14:20 if you do it during thunderstorm or in wool sweater, yes Jul 03 18:15:03 just take care of the flex riboon cable between display and keyboard part of device, the connector is very fragile Jul 03 18:15:36 ~flexcable Jul 03 18:15:37 from memory, fixribbon is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1324171#post1324171 Jul 03 18:23:53 xy2_: what exactly do you want to replace? the LCD display, the touch panel aka digitizer, or the complete display incl slider mechanism? Jul 03 18:25:42 DocScrutinizer05: the lcd display Jul 03 18:26:36 ok, please follow instructions of sixwheeledbeast^ in http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1324171#post1324171, then instead of replacing the ribbon you replace the LCD. See servicemanual for that Jul 03 18:26:44 ~l1_2 Jul 03 18:26:45 well, l1_2 is http://pdadb.net/download/nokia_n900_rx-51_service_manual_l1-l2_v1_0.pdf Jul 03 18:28:50 watch out with the connector at end of flex cale, don't bend it or pry with a sjarp or pinpoint tool. Use a credit card to pry it off the mainboard Jul 03 18:29:10 s/cale/cable/ Jul 03 18:29:10 DocScrutinizer05 meant: watch out with the connector at end of flex cable, don't bend it or pry with a sjarp or pinpoint tool. Use a credit card to pry it off the mainboard Jul 03 18:29:56 don't bend sharp the cable itself either, it will break Jul 03 18:30:36 this easily happens when you pull away the display half from kbd half, so be very careful while disassembling Jul 03 18:32:33 http://pdadb.net/download/nokia_n900_rx-51_service_manual_l1-l2_v1_0.pdf picture 7 Jul 03 18:33:48 ok Jul 03 18:34:13 from pic7 jump to pic 25 Jul 03 18:37:55 please report back about your results Jul 03 18:38:54 we only can learn from anything that went wrong. Jul 03 18:41:51 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if there's a factoid for... Jul 03 18:41:56 ~l3_4 Jul 03 18:42:07 hmm nope Jul 03 18:47:28 hmmm /home/jr/backup/lagrange-backup/www/vhosts/jr/maemo/_hidden/docs/hw/N900_RX-51_SM_L3_4.pdf Jul 03 18:48:33 sounds strangely similar to maemo.cloud-7.de/ Jul 03 18:48:40 ;-) Jul 03 18:49:39 DONT DARE to post full URLs anywhere, or stuff will vanish same minute, forever Jul 03 18:50:23 i think l3_4 is already available via google Jul 03 18:50:28 beware, there's a spider! Jul 03 18:50:37 and not from your host Jul 03 18:54:39 I found it a tad hard to spot the L3_4 on search engines nowadays Jul 03 18:54:58 maybe my search fu is weak Jul 03 18:55:29 the links I found pointed to "database error" etc Jul 03 18:55:32 maybe i should drop it on my home server and make it googlable Jul 03 19:00:26 google for Nokia_N900_SM_L12_L34_SCH.zip Jul 03 19:00:41 that's the pack i have Jul 03 19:00:59 it also has schematics included Jul 03 19:04:47 ~ping Jul 03 19:04:48 ~pong Jul 03 19:35:39 Vajb: irssi uploaded. should be available from devel sometime soon Jul 03 19:36:28 hildon-desktop fails to render if height > width on start, even if portrait mode is forced through orientation lock or in code Jul 03 19:36:57 it probably has width >= height check somewhere, since say 720x720 works, but not 710x720 Jul 03 21:36:55 dug my n810 out Jul 03 21:37:04 need to reinstall the fw Jul 03 21:37:35 wonder if I can do this from macOS? Jul 03 21:38:08 ~flasher Jul 03 21:38:36 refer ~flashing; http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz. HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz; list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/ Jul 03 21:44:04 jrg I don't know about n810, but I flashed my n900 from macOS. Jul 03 21:50:43 afaiui flasher-3.5 should work for both fremantle and diablo Jul 03 21:50:54 yah. not sure if n810 is even supported nowadays. Jul 03 21:51:06 haven't had an N900 in a long time. Jul 03 21:51:24 just happened to dig this n810 out of a drawer. figured I'd set it up Jul 03 21:51:36 anything else nowadays that can run on it and that doesn't suck? Jul 03 21:52:36 apart from maemo4/diablo (and dating cssu for diablo)? I doubt it Jul 03 21:53:33 ah ok Jul 03 21:53:56 guess it is what it is with this thing then. doubt the diablo repos have been updated in forever Jul 03 21:55:50 there is a mirror around though iirc, so you should be able to make it work :) Jul 03 21:56:20 yah heh Jul 03 21:56:41 im just saying that the repo pkgs are probably totally obsolete Jul 03 21:56:55 i guess i can try it out. too bad i can't just run Debian or something on it Jul 03 22:00:11 maybe it could, I just have no idea about mainline kernel status on n810 :) Jul 03 22:00:47 I'd imagine you could run wheezy on it. Jul 03 22:01:33 I'll have to look and see. if anything just to wipe it in case i decide to toss it Jul 03 22:01:54 too bad my n900 became so dated. i love my n900.. kept it years past its life before swapping to the apple stuff Jul 03 22:02:10 i know there was some clone that came out that runs Maemo? Jul 03 22:02:44 if you're referring to neo900, then it wasn't released yet Jul 03 22:02:51 yet? lol Jul 03 22:03:06 according to the specs it should have been released 7 years ago :) Jul 03 22:03:21 the specs on it are quite dated. so i guess that's just more vaporware? Jul 03 23:17:20 bencoh: afaik N810 charging is totally software driven Jul 03 23:17:40 so odds are a plain mainline debian won't fly Jul 03 23:19:11 jrg: when you're interested in specs then get your samsug S-8 or whatever Jul 03 23:19:45 but then please don't complain about obsolete or non-free repos Jul 03 23:20:21 heh. just saying it's too bad the neo900 couldn't be a bit stronger. Jul 03 23:20:29 Neo900 is meant to run maemo6 on it, that imposes quite some restrictions to "the specs" Jul 03 23:20:39 maemo5, sorry typo Jul 03 23:21:02 we need to stick to OMAP3 for example Jul 03 23:21:31 and that's pretty much what defines the specs, we went as high as it gets with OMAP3 Jul 03 23:22:39 if you're in for specs, wait for Neo900's successor, the STEP2 Jul 03 23:24:00 the idea being that after community ported maemo5 to Neo900, they are up to the task to port it to a platform with better specs, like OMAP5 for example Jul 03 23:25:02 and a maybe 1280*800 display Jul 03 23:26:07 *maybe* even other ARM cores Jul 03 23:31:52 also there's a fundamental problem with this scale of hardware development, that goes along the line of "why didn't they use carbon fibre enforced concrete when they built the dime of cologne?" Unlike Nokia or Samsung we only may use chipsets that are freely available on the market incl documentation. While Nokia asks TI to build new chips to Nokia's specs and Nokia starts developing a device when the chip is still vaporware Jul 03 23:32:18 s/ dime / dome / Jul 03 23:32:18 DocScrutinizer05 meant: also there's a fundamental problem with this scale of hardware development, that goes along the line of "why didn't they use carbon fibre enforced concrete when they built the dome of cologne?" Unlike Nokia or Samsung we only may use chipsets that are fre... Jul 03 23:35:02 then Nokia builds a few dozen millions of devices with that CPU chip and sells them for a few months, and only then TI *publishes* some more detailled specs about that CPU chip so projects like we could start *evaluating* *if* the chip would make sense to use for a device development Jul 03 23:51:54 all the bits of Maemo weren't open sourced? Jul 03 23:52:02 what did they keep? Jul 04 00:17:21 wow neo900 is 4 years already Jul 04 00:17:33 i wonder if i can see a detailed timeline of the development **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 04 03:00:01 2017