**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 23 03:00:01 2017 Jul 23 04:57:00 how it's going Jul 23 06:18:53 Maxdamantus: cool. I think i read somewhere that that was possible. The thing i saw was a lot smaller than ps3 controller. Very pocketable i would say. Jul 23 06:19:04 ;) Jul 23 06:19:36 i wish i had such device Jul 23 06:19:55 I've never had a device with a hardware keyboard :( Jul 23 06:20:29 oh i feel for u. I have 5 ;) Jul 23 06:21:12 that was rude :P Jul 23 06:21:24 I have 4, but one is an N97 in pretty bad condition, and I don't have a battery for it. Jul 23 06:21:42 was only NZ$2 anyway Jul 23 06:22:15 :p Jul 23 06:22:39 used some of that kind of devices though Jul 23 06:24:00 yeah, but two of them r e90 and one of them has split screen. Also one n900 keeps rebooting randomly Jul 23 06:24:51 The other 3 of mine are N900s in at least decently working condition. Jul 23 06:25:19 Only thing that doesn't work that I can think of is the slide sensor on one of them. Also only have two styluses. Jul 23 06:30:54 Maxdamantus: stylyses are cheap in ebay. I ordered lot of five for dollar i recall. Jul 23 06:32:01 I don't use more than one stylus at a time, so it's not really an issue. Jul 23 06:33:59 what about smartwatches? Jul 23 06:34:27 Don't have any of those. Not particularly interested. Jul 23 06:34:35 hm Jul 23 06:35:10 how come Jul 23 06:36:23 Because I can't imagine using one to do the things I usually do with a computer. Jul 23 06:36:37 which mostly involve either a web browser or a terminal. Jul 23 06:36:52 it's for notifications and stuff on the go like running Jul 23 06:36:54 ;) Jul 23 06:37:41 Not really much for me to be notified of. Jul 23 06:38:03 me neither but I've found it useful Jul 23 06:39:11 since i screwed the Bluetooth connection with my pebble time round it only serves me as digital watch with a simple calendar Jul 23 06:39:49 and i stopped wearing it Jul 23 06:40:12 at least the battery does last 5 days with Bluetooth off Jul 23 06:40:20 as in, maximum power saving Jul 23 06:40:28 lol Jul 23 06:40:37 with Bluetooth on it lasts 2 days Jul 23 06:40:38 whoooole 5 days for a watch Jul 23 06:40:46 yes Jul 23 06:41:06 pebble time steel does 10 days Jul 23 06:41:09 i remember times when you didnt change batteries in a watch for months Jul 23 06:41:14 don't have it Jul 23 06:41:27 and they had calendars and other tools too Jul 23 06:41:43 oh btw the classic nokia phones last 3 days Jul 23 06:42:27 I've rarely seen a fancy watch Jul 23 09:52:19 is it possible to make telegram-purple to remember folder location? Jul 23 09:52:43 would be handy if "insert image" command pointed to picture folder instead of root Jul 23 10:38:25 12:36 < KatolaZ> will try to adapt releasebot to drive jenkins from scorsh Jul 23 10:38:25 12:36 < KatolaZ> we should be able to test builds in a couple of days Jul 23 10:38:25 12:36 < KatolaZ> at the latest Jul 23 10:38:26 freemangordon: ^^ Jul 23 10:44:53 I'm also receiving the droid4 on monday, will also see if I can make calls on it with ofono Jul 23 11:16:01 Wizzup: with devuan or gentoo? Jul 23 11:16:09 parazyd: *shrug* I ordered two Jul 23 11:16:12 but probably devuan Jul 23 11:16:20 either way works Jul 23 11:16:50 cool Jul 23 11:17:19 I mean, what's the point of running gentoo on there now if we want to get h-d and such on devuan :) Jul 23 11:18:37 hmm Jul 23 11:19:00 no, asking because you did try out calls and a bunch of stuff on gentoo already Jul 23 11:19:09 but i guess the same applies for devuan Jul 23 11:19:28 btw the droid4 doesn't have a Ctrl key?! Jul 23 11:19:43 hope you manage to remap :D Jul 23 11:20:22 wow Jul 23 11:22:47 remapping is easy Jul 23 11:22:52 just change the dts Jul 23 11:22:57 or do it in-kernel Jul 23 11:22:59 lel Jul 23 11:25:14 dts, yeah Jul 23 11:25:17 freemangordon: about the repository for these builds. do we have anything in place? Jul 23 11:25:25 merlin1991: might also be related to you ^^ Jul 23 11:25:41 (if not, I can also temp host something depending on how much work it is) Jul 23 11:37:27 anyone have a good recommendation for a high capacity clone battery for n900? Jul 23 11:38:09 is there even such thing? Jul 23 11:38:13 i see some dubious 2450mAh BL-5J clones Jul 23 11:38:17 safe? Jul 23 11:38:32 http://www.ebay.com/itm/BATTERIA-BL-5J-DA-2450Mah-PER-NOKIA-LUMIA-520-530-X1-00-01-POTENZIATA-MAGGIORATA-/221927326223 Jul 23 11:38:53 for Lumia.... hmm Jul 23 11:39:01 BL-5J is BL-5J Jul 23 11:39:10 interesting Jul 23 11:39:28 ~polarcell Jul 23 11:39:29 i heard polarcell is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390402445382 BL-5J Replacement Jul 23 11:39:43 is that your recommendation? Jul 23 11:40:23 It's not much "higher capacity" but it's the only other I would recommend than OEM Jul 23 11:40:31 seems there is no longer a polarcell bl-5j on ebay :( Jul 23 11:43:52 wannasee electronic was the seller I'd have to go looking, it was an old listing Jul 23 11:44:06 lol ; http://www.ebay.com/itm/BATTERIA-BL-5J-3850-MAH-CELLULARE-NOKIA-N900-X6-5800XM-5800W-5233-C3-00-X1-00-/182660264668 Jul 23 11:44:13 3850mAh , i call a liar :D Jul 23 11:45:20 ah, found a polarcell seller ; http://www.ebay.com/itm/PolarCell-Akku-Nokia-C3-00-X6-00-5230-5800-XpressMusic-N900-5228-BL-5J-Batterie-/370597537396 Jul 23 11:49:03 buZz: yeah, sec Jul 23 11:49:08 buZz: polarcell indeed Jul 23 11:49:19 alrighty Jul 23 11:49:27 *purchase* Jul 23 11:49:58 i found out that with SIM inside my n900, and 'offline mode' turned on , battery barely lasts a day, while with NO sim inside, battery lasts a week Jul 23 11:50:05 so much for offline mode eh ;) Jul 23 11:50:12 That looks like the company Jul 23 11:50:14 buZz: http://www.wannsee-electronic.de/handyakkus/nokia/polarcell_hochleistungsakku_fuer_nokia_5800_ersetzt_originalakku__bl-5j_i2_62_0.htm Jul 23 11:50:17 hmm Jul 23 11:50:20 strange Jul 23 11:50:32 it's similar to Bluetooth on/off Jul 23 11:50:48 http://www.wannsee-electronic.de/suche/polarcell.htm?n_vl=bl-5j Jul 23 11:51:03 there Jul 23 11:51:17 ordered a polarcell from wannsee and some NOS nokia battery Jul 23 11:51:32 pebble time round lasts 2 days with Bluetooth on and connected to phone but lasts like 5 days with airplane mode on Jul 23 11:51:56 Juesto: yeah it makes sense for radio off to increase batterylife, but it doesnt on GSM Jul 23 11:52:28 perhaps sim module is causing consumption? Jul 23 11:52:42 telephony service Jul 23 11:52:51 not just telephony ;) Jul 23 11:52:54 also locationing Jul 23 11:53:08 so even in airplane/offline mode, celltower will know where you are Jul 23 11:53:29 well if there's a sim it has to load the entire stack regardless of modes ;) Jul 23 11:53:44 lol, so the antenna is still active? Jul 23 11:53:55 every now and then, yes Jul 23 11:54:03 Dang Jul 23 11:54:43 Juesto: easy way to test; remove SIM, boot phone, turn on GPS, see how long it takes to get lock (about 15-20 minutes) Jul 23 11:55:12 Juesto: then place SIM, boot phone, switch to offline, turn on GPS, and see how much faster it gets a lock (within 1 minute) Jul 23 11:55:12 can't you disable gps/network location? Jul 23 11:55:17 no Jul 23 11:55:30 why Jul 23 11:55:31 GSM requires the celltowers to know how far its connected peers are Jul 23 11:55:58 O_o Jul 23 11:56:16 buZz: are you sure this is true wrt gps? Jul 23 11:56:19 that's not really my experience Jul 23 11:56:29 try it out Wizzup :) it amazed me aswell Jul 23 11:56:34 well, I have a sim Jul 23 11:56:35 no sim -> lock takes forever Jul 23 11:56:39 and it usually takes a long time Jul 23 11:56:43 sim & offline -> lock happens fast Jul 23 11:56:44 only when the supl server works it's decent fast Jul 23 11:56:52 oh. Jul 23 11:56:59 ok, hang on Jul 23 11:57:03 I misread Jul 23 11:57:03 sure Jul 23 11:57:30 someone in here linked me to a article describing this GSM behaviour Jul 23 11:57:34 but i didnt bookmark it ;( Jul 23 11:58:46 lel Jul 23 11:59:06 perhaps is in your history buzz Jul 23 11:59:21 my history is too big to search :D Jul 23 11:59:27 you can try logs if you remember when Jul 23 11:59:39 irclogs Jul 23 11:59:45 irclogs are for narcs Jul 23 11:59:55 wth Jul 23 11:59:59 :) Jul 23 12:00:00 lol Jul 23 12:00:17 i dont like to criminalize other people by having logs on my computer when the popo bust me Jul 23 12:00:26 i SUGGEST you share the same sentiment ;) Jul 23 12:00:39 there's an online irclog :/ Jul 23 12:00:50 yeah thats quite horrible aswell Jul 23 12:00:56 i cant change the world, only people Jul 23 12:00:59 irc is unencrypted anyway Jul 23 12:01:00 i see Jul 23 12:01:06 so... Jul 23 12:01:11 man Jul 23 12:01:16 I'm so looking forward to devuan with h-d Jul 23 12:01:22 :D Jul 23 12:01:30 convince gedeminas to delete logs :D Jul 23 12:01:32 Wizzup: i have a new device i'd like to have that on :) Jul 23 12:01:36 which one Jul 23 12:01:38 https://i.imgur.com/kLVek2D.jpg <-- Jul 23 12:01:40 the droid4 seems like quite a good upgrade hardware-wise Jul 23 12:01:44 sony vaio ux280p Jul 23 12:01:50 parazyd: non replacable battery :( Jul 23 12:01:54 buZz: ha! Jul 23 12:01:54 (i dont have xp on it) Jul 23 12:01:56 buZz: ooh! Jul 23 12:02:01 buZz: does it run starcraft? ;) Jul 23 12:02:02 wow Jul 23 12:02:06 Wizzup: totally Jul 23 12:02:08 looks massive Jul 23 12:02:12 sweet Jul 23 12:02:19 its a core1solo 1.2ghz with 1gb ram Jul 23 12:02:24 parazyd: 4.5" screen Jul 23 12:02:25 I really wish I could get the starcraft version from the pandora without the touch control hacks Jul 23 12:02:37 Wizzup: ask the porter ;) Jul 23 12:02:43 yeah, well, I tried that Jul 23 12:03:03 or undo the hacks yourself Jul 23 12:03:04 and yes, the droid4 seems fun hw upgrade wise, mostly just ram and cpu Jul 23 12:03:08 Juesto: there is no source Jul 23 12:03:17 sigh Jul 23 12:05:11 Wizzup: just ask notaz nicely :) Jul 23 12:05:15 he's usually quite kind Jul 23 12:05:50 he mentions having made C source and compiled it against arm-winelib Jul 23 12:05:57 so i guess that source does exist -somewhere- Jul 23 12:08:07 buZz: yes, on his machine Jul 23 12:08:20 I don't have my logs handy, but I think I asked him for source and some wine patches Jul 23 12:08:30 I don't think he was too keen on sharing it, perhaps b/c of blizzard Jul 23 12:09:48 the wine patches are in his repo Jul 23 12:10:01 https://github.com/notaz/wine/tree/pandora_hacks Jul 23 12:10:17 generic? Jul 23 12:10:39 Wizzup: maybe play on his empathy, or ask him to make a binary for you with the features you need Jul 23 12:10:51 buZz: sweet @ wine Jul 23 12:11:06 buZz: yeah, well, it's not a priority right now Jul 23 12:11:09 but perhaps I can ask again Jul 23 12:11:22 'my poor disabled 5 year old nephew can only play XXX on YYY and now we need ZZZ but without source we cant fix it for him, dont make his last 2 years on earth be without starcraft' Jul 23 12:11:32 ;) Jul 23 12:11:37 soceng 101 Jul 23 12:11:42 lol Jul 23 12:13:39 lol Jul 23 12:27:22 buZz: how long does that vaio device last Jul 23 12:28:03 i dont have a battery for it yet, but going by other ppl; 1.5hr on 'normal' battery, 3hr on 'extended' Jul 23 12:28:08 I see Jul 23 12:28:20 typical for 2006 portable machine , i think Jul 23 17:55:29 hi guys, been on a holiday for a week, if anybody pinged me, please do it again Jul 23 17:56:19 freemangordon: hope you enjoyed it Jul 23 17:56:24 12:38 < Wizzup> 12:36 < KatolaZ> will try to adapt releasebot to drive jenkins from scorsh Jul 23 17:56:27 12:38 < Wizzup> 12:36 < KatolaZ> we should be able to test builds in a couple of days Jul 23 17:56:30 12:38 < Wizzup> 12:36 < KatolaZ> at the latest Jul 23 17:56:32 12:38 < Wizzup> freemangordon: ^^ Jul 23 17:57:34 Wizzup: thanks Jul 23 17:57:46 freemangordon: that translates to: almost ready Jul 23 17:57:56 I think parazyd asked about the state of the maemo side of the infra Jul 23 17:58:01 I guess I need to pester xes to see what is the progress with the VM Jul 23 17:58:07 ah Jul 23 17:58:09 and? Jul 23 18:02:05 well, he asked today Jul 23 18:02:06 no response Jul 23 18:02:12 13:25 < parazyd> freemangordon: about the repository for these builds. do we have anything in place? Jul 23 18:02:15 13:25 < parazyd> merlin1991: might also be related to you ^^ Jul 23 18:02:33 xes: ^^^ Jul 23 18:15:48 Wizzup: re enjoying my holiday - I was in the most flooded place of all the Chalkidiki, in Thallata camp, next to the village of Kalamitsi ;) Jul 23 18:23:37 Ah, greece. Prefer it to the east side of the country? Jul 23 18:24:28 deffinitely Jul 23 18:25:45 way better sea, people, the whole feeling is like... like it was 30 years ago on "our" sea. But it was ruined since then. Jul 23 18:28:09 Interesting, you find the better places in greece then Jul 23 18:28:32 sure Jul 23 18:28:57 there are lots of wild or semi-wild beaches all over the place Jul 23 18:29:33 which fits perfectly to me and my GF camping addiction :) Jul 23 18:30:16 however this time it was a little bit extreme Jul 23 18:30:40 our tent was half a meter under water :) Jul 23 18:31:25 but fortunately salewa know their job pretty well Jul 23 18:32:42 just one broken pole Jul 23 18:34:41 Ah, so you actually meant flooded as in with water. Wow Jul 23 18:34:48 I thought you meant flooded with tourists. ;) Jul 23 18:36:04 no, water. Jul 23 18:37:12 Well, that makes for good story telling I guess. If your stuff isn't damaged... Jul 23 18:37:27 isn't too* Jul 23 18:41:00 not too much, just a little losses, nothing important Jul 23 18:41:15 and we are well, which is the most important Jul 23 18:42:34 the other people didn't go that well with their belongings, about 20 or so cars were over the roof with water Jul 23 18:47:00 wow Jul 23 21:29:09 freemangordon: oh yeah, I also ordered a few droid4 phones as alt. target Jul 23 21:29:21 freemangordon: modem is ofono supported, sre and others did a lot of the linux mainline work Jul 23 21:29:35 it's dual core omap and 1gb ram Jul 24 00:19:41 sorry for the noise Jul 24 00:46:44 in offline mode modem is supposed to NOT operate, aka "antenna off" Jul 24 00:48:40 it might (or might not) be possible that modem still scans for visible BTS, but for sure it's not supposed to transmit anything, since that's the whole purpose of offline aka airplane mode Jul 24 00:49:22 at+cfun=0 is not meant to keep list of visible BTS afaik Jul 24 00:52:29 and I even doubt a 911-call is possible in +cfun=0, which would be the only plausible reason to keep a list of visible BTS. Also 911 calls are the same whether with or without SIM, so that wouldn't apply either Jul 24 00:53:13 it's possible your *SIM* is running any cruft and thus consuming energy Jul 24 00:54:19 you know your SIM is a complete 'computer' basically Jul 24 00:54:36 with storage, RAM, CPU and all Jul 24 00:56:06 for timing differences in GPS with and without SIM, see Jul 24 00:56:17 ~gsm-agps Jul 24 00:56:17 RRLP is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://osmocom.org/projects/security/wiki/RRLP Jul 24 00:57:40 and Jul 24 00:57:45 ~u-tdoa Jul 24 00:57:46 u-tdoa is, like, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-TDOA Jul 24 00:58:56 RRLP is basically the service layer A-GPS, while SUPL is the user layer A-GPS Jul 24 00:59:39 buZz: ^^^ Jul 24 01:03:48 also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_resource_location_services_protocol Jul 24 01:07:47 unlike wikipedia ^^^ suggests, U-TDOA is also used in context of RRLP and E9-1-1 Jul 24 01:15:20 a not too technical article (as old as of 2005 it seems) about control plane (incorrectly called "service plane" Jul 24 01:16:07 ...service layer" by me) vs user plane https://www.directionsmag.com/article/3206 Jul 24 01:17:17 alas the excellent article linked in http://osmocom.org/projects/security/wiki/RRLP is "404" Jul 24 01:18:22 but for practical purposes you can assume SUPL ~= RRLP, modulo different planes they work on, from a user perspective Jul 24 01:21:50 just obviously you need a registration to a RRLP-provider for RRLP, which in turn needs an enabled SIM. And you need cellular TX for RRLP which is not supposed to be possible in offline mode. For SUPL on the other hand you need internet connectivity which is available in tablet-mode but not in offline mode either. Then on top there's the performance difference between SUPL and RRLP, the latter being magnitudes better thanks to U-TDOA if Jul 24 01:21:52 the provider is using that Jul 24 01:22:55 U-TDOA based RRLP "SUPL" could (and does) actually outperform GPS both in precision and speed Jul 24 01:25:09 on thing's for sure: unless there's a blatant implementation error in device, airplane mode must never transmit any RF and thus no U-TDOA based (or other) location of mobile equipment by provider in airplane mode Jul 24 01:27:15 exception to that might be user initiating a 911 call which might implicitly end any airplane mode, though ususally you get an additional warning requester about the fact, asking you if you really want to leave airplane mode Jul 24 01:30:07 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-TDOA >>Today, in the United States, Sprint and Verizon use a form of GPS known as Assisted GPS while AT&T Mobility and T-Mobile use U-TDOA for their E9-1-1 solutions.<< Jul 24 01:33:52 also refer to http://m2msupport.net/m2msupport/atcfun-set-phone-functionality/ - up to the particular implementation of airplane mode if they use +cfun=0 or maybe +cfun=2 Jul 24 01:34:05 or 4 Jul 24 01:35:50 If I wasn't lazy to reboot device after that, I'd test setting the M900 to airplane mode, then on cli start pnatd and give a "AT+CFUN)" Jul 24 01:36:22 If I wasn't lazy to reboot device after that, I'd test setting the N900 to airplane mode, then on cli start pnatd and give a "AT+CFUN?" Jul 24 01:40:08 HTH Jul 24 01:44:20 useful article: https://technowizz.wordpress.com/2010/01/12/location-based-services-architectures/ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jul 24 03:00:01 2017