**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 27 03:00:02 2017
Jul 27 03:00:18 <DocScrutinizer05> still, no /proc in /dev/sailfish, right?
Jul 27 03:00:32 <DocScrutinizer05> at least none that has meaningful working content
Jul 27 03:00:44 <Kabouik_> But the thing is, iptables -L is still empty on the computer. So the Jolla C in recovery might be a little more flexible without chroot (at least I can ping the computer without permission issue), but still no internet
Jul 27 03:01:00 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Jul 27 03:01:38 <DocScrutinizer05> please check a "HowTo share internet access" for your distro
Jul 27 03:01:42 <Kabouik_> I see only two files in /dev/sailfish, home and root (and they are files, not dirs)
Jul 27 03:02:10 <Kabouik_> I did DocScrutinizer05 but there is none, I'll have to ask on a forum/irc channel tomorrow
Jul 27 03:02:23 <Kabouik_> Solus is not so widespread, documentation online is not always there
Jul 27 03:02:56 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess I don't have more knowledge or ideas to share
Jul 27 03:03:13 <Kabouik_> Thanks anyway for your valuable help DocScrutinizer05 
Jul 27 03:03:18 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
Jul 27 03:03:24 <Kabouik_> It's 5 am here, I will continue tomorrow I guess
Jul 27 03:03:55 <DocScrutinizer05> hah, here too
Jul 27 03:04:08 <Kabouik_> In the meantime I've turned on my Jolla 1, I really like how it handles with this form factor (smaller than Jolla C), too bad Aliendalvik is too old to run an application I need every day to do payments in the country where I live.
Jul 27 03:04:25 <Kabouik_> And I don't have my N900 here. :<
Jul 27 03:06:54 <Kabouik_> The worst is even if I get zypper with internet access, it might still not be enough to fix my phone without a factory reset :P
Jul 27 03:08:18 <Kabouik_> I wish there was a way to just reinstall all applications at once after a reset, and possibly put them back in their original folders with a backuped /home. 
Jul 27 03:09:40 <Kabouik_> I was already thinking that when using my N900 everyday and after bricking it a couple times.
Jul 27 03:11:27 <Kabouik_> Alright, off to bed, thank you again Oksana and DocScrutinizer05 and sorry I have lost some of your time. Good to see that #maemo is more active than #jollamobile though :P
Jul 27 03:14:11 <DocScrutinizer05> "just reinstall all applications at once after a reset, and possibly put them back in their original folders" is *exactly* what the maemo5 system backup does
Jul 27 03:16:02 <DocScrutinizer05> it backups the list of apps as seen in HAM "installed apps" aka "uninstall"-tab and re-installes them from repos on restore
Jul 27 03:16:54 <DocScrutinizer05> it also saves the config data for those apps, as long as the app package has made the system aware of those
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 27 10:48:22 2017
Jul 27 12:39:35 <DocScrutinizer05> https://blog.exodusintel.com/2017/07/26/broadpwn/
Jul 27 16:35:26 <kalin> Hi all
Jul 27 18:36:06 <hubean> hello
Jul 27 18:37:25 <hubean> just a quick question, is there any documentation on installing linux as the only operating system on a n810? 
Jul 27 18:38:14 <DocScrutinizer05> err, N810 has linux as only operating system
Jul 27 18:39:58 <Wizzup> I think the question was about a non-ancient os
Jul 27 18:41:44 <hubean> yeah as Wizzup, an updated debian/ubuntu/whatever linux os with no X server would be sweet 
Jul 27 18:43:09 <hubean> has this been done before? 
Jul 27 18:46:00 <hubean> id like this device to run as lightweight as possible, i dont really use the graphical interface that much and i believe thats a huge resource hog 
Jul 27 18:49:34 <Wizzup> on the n900 for sure, idk about 810
Jul 27 19:55:38 <kalin> guys, what is the best browser for N900
Jul 27 19:56:01 <kalin> something with html5 support and video player
Jul 27 19:56:18 <L29Ah> mpv
Jul 27 19:58:10 <kalin> mpv is forked mplayer
Jul 27 20:00:28 <L29Ah> and it uses youtube-dl to butcher web pages for videos, and plays it faster than firefox or its forks
Jul 27 20:03:59 <sixwheeledbeast^> There isn't really a perfect browser at the moment unfortunately IMO. I use a combination of Stock MicroB, QML Browser and Opera.
Jul 27 20:05:36 * Maxdamantus primarily uses Opera Mobile.
Jul 27 20:06:46 <kalin> i use MicroB, but it use old firefox3.5 engine
Jul 27 20:07:30 <kalin> and many sites didn't work correct
Jul 27 20:09:43 <DocScrutinizer05> there can't be a perfect browser for the totally borked internet
Jul 27 20:10:57 <kalin> Debian 7 for arm has newer Firefox ESR
Jul 27 20:11:26 <DocScrutinizer05> heck, even on a PC with i5 and 8GB RAM, really all browsers suck one way or another. Not their fault though, fault of idiots that think HTML was a vehicle to implement services
Jul 27 20:11:59 <kalin> i know
Jul 27 20:12:31 <kalin> google suck CPU time
Jul 27 20:13:17 <kalin> even when a did nothing
Jul 27 20:13:33 <kalin> and not only google
Jul 27 20:14:05 <kalin> but my point is
Jul 27 20:15:46 <kalin> when debian for arm has firefox 38++ why we not have firefox or maybe tweaked MicroB with new firefox engine?
Jul 27 20:16:40 <L29Ah> because no one does anything for maemo
Jul 27 20:21:30 <kalin> is it so hard to port debian apps to maemo
Jul 27 20:21:51 <kalin> we talk about to same arm architecture
Jul 27 20:22:02 <kalin> not between arm and x86
Jul 27 20:53:25 <sixwheeledbeast^> It's not that simple. Look at Alopex and other projects that have tried to bring a better browsing experience to Maemo. MicroB also has closed components I believe
Jul 27 20:54:57 <Wizzup> kalin: do it
Jul 27 20:57:33 <sixwheeledbeast^> I'm not wanting to put anyone off trying BTW. I'd love a better browser.
Jul 27 21:36:39 <ollieparanoid[m]> hi
Jul 27 21:37:30 <ollieparanoid[m]> could you guys please allow tor IPs to access the maemo homepage? I'd greatly appreciate it
Jul 27 21:37:45 <Wizzup> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6
Jul 27 21:37:59 <ollieparanoid[m]> (also someone told me, that the tls certificates are broken, and he can't even reach the site from chrome now)
Jul 27 21:46:25 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, wtf? https://maemo.org kicks me to "login"
Jul 27 21:47:20 <DocScrutinizer05> and http://maemo.org seems to forward to https which makes my browser complain about cert
Jul 27 21:47:50 <DocScrutinizer05> for www.orderno.com though!!?!!!?!?!!
Jul 27 21:49:48 <DocScrutinizer05> WTF honestly http://wstaw.org/m/2017/07/27/plasma-desktopyT8317.png
Jul 27 21:50:07 <L29Ah> facilitate plz
Jul 27 21:50:23 <sixwheeledbeast^> The offical word is Tor isn't blocked as such. It's just so happens that most Exit Node IP's are on the forum spam blacklist.
Jul 27 21:50:47 <DocScrutinizer05> L29Ah: stfu if you got no better 'jokes'
Jul 27 21:51:08 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast^: this isn't Tor
Jul 27 21:52:03 <sixwheeledbeast^> I was answering above Doc. 
Jul 27 21:52:09 <DocScrutinizer05> aah
Jul 27 21:52:15 <L29Ah> it's not a joke
Jul 27 21:52:22 <sixwheeledbeast^> "please allow tor IP's"
Jul 27 21:52:33 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah damn, no glasses. Tor IP, not for IP
Jul 27 21:53:21 <MartijnBraam> Hmm yeah I can't seem to access maemo.org through RFC 2549
Jul 27 21:54:00 <DocScrutinizer05> do you expect we look up rfc2549 now?
Jul 27 21:54:42 <DocScrutinizer05> xes: warfare ^^^
Jul 27 21:54:45 <ollieparanoid[m]> sixwheeledbeast^: thanks for your answer. could someone remove the blacklisted nodes then? because in my experience all exit nodes are blocked. at least for read only it would be super useful
Jul 27 21:55:33 <MartijnBraam> DocScrutinizer05: I expect at least 50% of the people here to not have to look it up
Jul 27 21:55:37 <DocScrutinizer05> ollieparanoid[m]: that's a recurring topic and I'm with you but it seems the maintainers in charge feel it's impossible to allow read-only 
Jul 27 21:56:10 <DocScrutinizer05> MartijnBraam: good luck with this then
Jul 27 21:56:50 <ollieparanoid[m]> DocScrutinizer05: who are the maintainers in charge?
Jul 27 21:57:01 <DocScrutinizer05> me? warfare? xes?
Jul 27 21:57:22 <DocScrutinizer05> I admit the latter two might know 2549
Jul 27 21:57:58 <ollieparanoid[m]> sorry that I didn't know you, I don't hang out much in the maemo forums, I just click on a link once a while, that leads me there, because you have some quite useful information
Jul 27 21:58:03 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, for Tor blacklist. I guess that's chem|st
Jul 27 21:58:13 <ollieparanoid[m]> DocScrutinizer05: yeah, so is there anything I could do to change the situation?
Jul 27 21:58:44 <DocScrutinizer05> for yourself, see the message you get on talk.maemo.org which suggests to send an email
Jul 27 21:58:48 <sixwheeledbeast^> It depends on what part of the site.
Jul 27 21:58:55 <ollieparanoid[m]> (or @chem|st then)
Jul 27 21:59:04 <sixwheeledbeast^> ~unbanip
Jul 27 21:59:04 <infobot> well, unbanip is please contact techstaff <at> maemo <dot> org with your request, or see ~techstaff, or see https://www.stopforumspam.com/removal, or contact tmo maintainer chem|st in here
Jul 27 21:59:22 <ollieparanoid[m]> DocScrutinizer05: it says:
Jul 27 21:59:23 <ollieparanoid[m]> Sorry, it seems that you are using an IP address or a proxy that is listed in the forum anti spam blacklist.
Jul 27 21:59:24 <ollieparanoid[m]> Feel free to contact our staff on irc freenode #maemo channel.
Jul 27 21:59:32 <ollieparanoid[m]> so here I am :)
Jul 27 21:59:33 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
Jul 27 21:59:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, ping chem|st
Jul 27 22:00:13 <sixwheeledbeast^> Well you are most likely to get a quick response from one of the ~150 people idling here.
Jul 27 22:01:38 <DocScrutinizer05> though aiui techstuff moved the 'wall' from tmo to maemo firewall
Jul 27 22:02:00 <ollieparanoid[m]> it's fine, I'll be offline soon anyway. chem|st, would be nice if you could answer me about the (indirect) tor blockage issue
Jul 27 22:02:05 <DocScrutinizer05> xes: you around?
Jul 27 22:02:36 <DocScrutinizer05> warfare: ping
Jul 27 22:03:09 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm way more worried about http://wstaw.org/m/2017/07/27/plasma-desktopyT8317.png
Jul 27 22:03:29 <DocScrutinizer05> wtf is orderno,com?
Jul 27 22:03:41 <MartijnBraam> It hosts the big image on the homepage
Jul 27 22:03:46 <DocScrutinizer05> and what it got to do on maemo.org webpages
Jul 27 22:04:45 <ollieparanoid[m]> maybe you guys could consider let's encrypt
Jul 27 22:05:12 <DocScrutinizer05> how would that help for third party URLs?
Jul 27 22:05:51 <DocScrutinizer05> als we need a wildcard cert and LE offers those starting next year. Even then I'd go for a decent commercial cert any day
Jul 27 22:06:09 <sixwheeledbeast^> This thread covers the Tor issue. If you can access it. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=97983
Jul 27 22:06:42 <DocScrutinizer05> LE is a huge PITA
Jul 27 22:07:23 <L29Ah> what's wrong with LE except the inavailability of wildcard certs?
Jul 27 22:07:28 <DocScrutinizer05> icing on top: update script auto update
Jul 27 22:07:44 <L29Ah> get acme_tiny.py
Jul 27 22:07:48 <L29Ah> it's cca 100sloc
Jul 27 22:07:55 <L29Ah> the official client is insane, yeah
Jul 27 22:08:19 <ollieparanoid[m]> DocScrutinizer05: well, I didn't want to kick off a discussion - use whatever suits you best. but a valid certificate would be nice. but for me the relevant part is the tor thing, I don't care that much if your cert is valid or not, as long as I can read the information
Jul 27 22:08:20 <MartijnBraam> also LE doesn't have support for haproxy in their official client
Jul 27 22:08:21 <DocScrutinizer05> LE completely misses the point of authentication/trust, only dealing with encryption (as the name already implies)
Jul 27 22:08:24 <MartijnBraam> but enough third party clients
Jul 27 22:08:33 <ollieparanoid[m]> sixwheeledbeast^: thans for the link
Jul 27 22:08:37 <L29Ah> x.509 trust model is inherently broken anyway
Jul 27 22:08:38 <ollieparanoid[m]> *thanks
Jul 27 22:08:45 <L29Ah> and everyone just checks DNS
Jul 27 22:08:46 <sixwheeledbeast^> np
Jul 27 22:08:51 <L29Ah> not only LE
Jul 27 22:09:23 <DocScrutinizer05> ollieparanoid[m]: *our* cert seems valid. There's a link to a third party with selfsigned cert on the webpage
Jul 27 22:09:37 <DocScrutinizer05> which is a huge nogo
Jul 27 22:09:37 <L29Ah> btw https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647959
Jul 27 22:09:39 <povbot> 04Bug 647959: was not found.
Jul 27 22:12:25 <DocScrutinizer05> "Why don't you use XY?" - "because it's broken by concept" - "so what? the original thing also was almost broken, though not by concept. So you could as well use sth that is decently broken from beginning"   SURE makes SO MUCH sense
Jul 27 22:13:49 <L29Ah> what original thing?
Jul 27 22:13:50 <sixwheeledbeast^> Doc I get www.maemo.org when I look at the cert here. Expires in 5 days. 1 Aug.
Jul 27 22:14:22 <DocScrutinizer05> feels like "why don't you use whatsapp instead of old obsolete SMS? It's free"
Jul 27 22:15:43 <DocScrutinizer05> sicelo: here's something for council to take care of, urgently
Jul 27 22:15:54 <DocScrutinizer05> get a new 2 year wildcard cert
Jul 27 22:16:17 <DocScrutinizer05> juiceme: ^^^
Jul 27 22:17:06 <L29Ah> le's certs are cron'able at least
Jul 27 22:17:41 <DocScrutinizer05> and don't waste everybody's time with "why don't we use LE instead? it is for free while a 2 year *-cert costs some 10 bucks per month" please
Jul 27 22:18:16 <L29Ah> answer my questions please
Jul 27 22:18:54 <L29Ah> although i see that you may be too busy facilitating things
Jul 27 22:21:12 <DocScrutinizer05> too busy trolling to stay in this channel when he can't continue with that
Jul 27 22:25:42 <DocScrutinizer05> the time wasted by discussions with LE proponents alone is worth 50 times the cost of a commercial wildcard cert, every month. On top recurring issues with the recurring failing cronjob to renew the LE crap, that cause constant workload for nothing on our admins
Jul 27 22:26:02 <DocScrutinizer05> for a 9 bucks per month? honestly now?
Jul 27 22:27:42 <DocScrutinizer05> let alone you can't pin LE-certs since they are ephemeral by concept
Jul 27 22:29:37 <DocScrutinizer05> donors donated funds exactly for this purpose to make life of our sysops more easy
Jul 27 22:30:27 <DocScrutinizer05> we don't need "donations" like "why don't you use LE?"
Jul 27 22:31:18 <DocScrutinizer05> not as if we never heard of it before and need L29Ah to make us aware of such option
Jul 27 23:40:56 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast^:  http://www.maemo.org -> http://wstaw.org/m/2017/07/28/plasma-desktopaI8317.png
Jul 27 23:41:44 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, c&p error  - www.maemo.org 
Jul 27 23:42:24 <DocScrutinizer05> Konqueror doesn't implicitly redirect to https://
Jul 27 23:47:41 <DocScrutinizer05> and aiui embedding content from foreign sites into a HTTPS page isn't good practice either, and probably will result in a warning in all modern browsers. Aside from that the link is 404 for me, regardless of the self-signed cert. 
Jul 27 23:49:14 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe condolence period is about to expire anyway, though I lack knowledge of what's commonly considered appropriate 
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