**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 02 03:00:02 2017 Sep 02 05:37:36 hoho. Got in to whatsapp. Used kerio's solution. Virtualbox+android 6.0 image. Sep 02 08:20:14 Vajb I have seen your comment about whatsapp. Could you please share details? Sep 02 08:25:53 Hi folks! Sep 02 08:27:18 hello Sep 02 08:27:50 I just got an email from Microsoft that my older version of Skype, Skype for Windows 7.‍17-7.‍30, will no longer work as of September 4th. We don't have any Windows machines in our house (I run exclusively Debian, and my wife uses Mac OS (which I tolerate as its based on BSD)). Sep 02 08:27:50 Is the Skype interface in my N900 what Microsoft is referring to? Sep 02 08:29:04 If so, is there a way to upgrade the Skype services in Maemo so that they'll keep working with Skype? (Or is this my chance to try and nudge my parents and friends toward FOSS video call software?) Sep 02 08:30:59 Hmm I dont know sorry Sep 02 08:31:37 I'm waiting someone ported line chat to maemo Sep 02 08:31:42 Lol Sep 02 08:33:38 jkepler: if they indeed deprecate the n900 version, then this is your chance to switch to FOSS video call sw Sep 02 08:54:15 Enrico_Menotti: i downloaded android-x86_64-6.0-r3.iso and ran it on virtualbox. Then i installed whatsapp on tablet and followed on app instructions to use it without mobile. Sep 02 08:55:26 now if only i could get remote ssh from n900 to my virtualbox running android :D Sep 02 08:58:11 Enrico_Menotti: and default browser crashed when i tried to download whatsapp.apk and i had to install firefox also. Sep 02 09:00:53 What apps do you use to remote the android Sep 02 09:00:57 ? Sep 02 09:03:57 hello Sep 02 09:08:20 Hello Sep 02 09:10:53 After having changed over to Linux a year ago I can't keep myself from noticing that for one or another reason, working on Windows has been (and is) far more productive. For instance, the file explorer I use now is Nemo, which has the best features of both Thunar and Nautilus. My main issue with Nemo right now is when I'm looking for a file, I star Sep 02 09:10:53 t to type the name to find it but if I misstype I have to backspacke out the whole search query and it never goes away, this is only an issue in Nemo and I haven't found any way to turn it off. Other file explorers have stupid issues like Nautilus will freeze my whole PC everytime I right-click and no easy way to open terminal in current directory Sep 02 09:10:53 & extract multiple ZIP files, etc. As far as the Desktop goes, I'm not sure but I feel something is terribly off, right now I'm using Xubuntu (XFCE) which so far has been the only somewhat stable window manager. For compositor I use none, I tried Compton but even Compton doesn't perform well with 144hz. I have a display and a TV connected, everytim Sep 02 09:10:53 e I wanna switch audio output between them I have to switch it manually for every running application. TL;DR: How do I make my Xubuntu more productive and/or genuinely FEEL more like Windows / work better? Sep 02 09:12:08 Try to move to KDE Sep 02 09:12:23 KDE Neon? Sep 02 09:12:30 I prefer kde than xfce Sep 02 09:12:47 I've tried KDE, it does NOT work well unless I reinstall to a different distro like KDE Neon Sep 02 09:12:58 Try kubuntu Sep 02 09:13:11 Bundled with kde Sep 02 09:14:06 I have, it's missing a lot of theming options and options in general Sep 02 09:14:14 but I installed it from Ubuntu Sep 02 09:14:23 (but I did add the PPA) Sep 02 09:14:36 Hmm probably your instalation is corrupt Sep 02 09:14:42 no Sep 02 09:14:44 wait Sep 02 09:14:45 I remember Sep 02 09:14:50 my main issue with KDE is Sep 02 09:14:53 or try devuan with mate Sep 02 09:14:57 Try fresh install with kubuntu Sep 02 09:14:58 that KWIN will ONLY run 100Hz Sep 02 09:15:02 or anything with mate Sep 02 09:15:14 I have still not found a way to get kwin to run at 144hz/unlimited Sep 02 09:15:33 Hmm i don't know that kwin Sep 02 09:15:34 even manually setting the limit to any number doesn't matter, it caps at 100 Sep 02 09:15:36 so frustrating Sep 02 09:15:56 I've tried Mate, I've been trying pretty much all of it X'D Sep 02 09:16:20 I don't remember the issue with Mate but definitively had issues with them all, especially compositor issues Sep 02 09:16:21 :/ Sep 02 09:16:34 even Compton doesn't work well with 144hz Sep 02 09:16:50 Try from fresh instalation if you want to enjoy Sep 02 09:16:59 I hate reinstalling ;( Sep 02 09:17:11 Or you can try instalation to vm Sep 02 09:17:24 yeah well Sep 02 09:17:35 How Sep 02 09:17:57 I think 1 of the issues is that LTS is so fucking old, should switch to a rolling release as I bet the more "bleeding edge" is more stable than the LTS crap (for desktop) Sep 02 09:18:27 Which ubuntu version do you use Sep 02 09:18:36 Xubuntu Sep 02 09:18:37 16.04 Sep 02 09:19:14 I tried upgrading to 16.10 -> 17.04 but it keeps telling me that there's no available upgrade or whatever, and I checked my settings manually that the upgrade path is set to NORMAL and everything :/ Sep 02 09:19:40 Techically there a lot of problem when you install to the last version of desktop environment when your distro from last year version Sep 02 09:19:48 exactly Sep 02 09:20:04 Try to upgrade to 17.xx Sep 02 09:20:07 yeah Sep 02 09:20:10 that's what imma gonna do Sep 02 09:20:14 if it will let me Sep 02 09:20:35 Dist-upgrade? Sep 02 09:20:48 okay so I changed from LTS to "Any" Sep 02 09:20:50 and will try now Sep 02 09:20:52 in a sec Sep 02 09:21:05 Nice Sep 02 09:21:15 dist-upgrade: command not found Sep 02 09:21:16 hmm Sep 02 09:21:24 Sudo? Sep 02 09:21:43 nana Sep 02 09:22:12 ill figure it out Sep 02 09:22:12 btw Sep 02 09:22:17 what's a good file manager? Sep 02 09:22:56 I found an article on omgubuntu Sep 02 09:23:08 On how to upgrade to 17 Sep 02 09:23:16 Nautilus = crap (freezes system on right-click for 1 second at a time), Thunar = crap, Nemo = crap (bogous search + VERY laggy to use e.g. SFTP) Sep 02 09:23:25 I love dolphin Sep 02 09:23:41 I suppose that's the only option left Sep 02 09:23:52 i've tried all 10 of them or whatever Sep 02 09:23:59 some I really really like Sep 02 09:24:09 but I can't get used to the Mac esque Sep 02 09:24:15 file manager with the trees and shit Sep 02 09:25:01 I don't know that Sep 02 09:25:15 Mostly using terminal Sep 02 09:25:19 Hehe Sep 02 09:25:22 alright im upgrading to 16.10 then 17.04, works this time, didn't on Ubuntu (before i reinstalled haha) Sep 02 09:25:26 yeah I love Sep 02 09:25:27 Ranger Sep 02 09:25:36 but FUCK me if I'm gonna learn VIM controls Sep 02 09:25:37 I tried ;( Sep 02 09:25:46 Hahaha Sep 02 09:25:48 VimFX for Firefox addon too is so fuuuucking sweet but I am too dumb Sep 02 09:25:50 Good luck Sep 02 09:25:53 or well the issue was Sep 02 09:25:57 I have European keyboard layout Sep 02 09:26:05 ... Sep 02 09:26:08 VIM is US only Sep 02 09:26:19 ??? Sep 02 09:26:41 VIM keys are based on U.S. keyboard layout Sep 02 09:26:53 my keyboard is not a U.S. keyboard :/ so the layout is messed up for me Sep 02 09:26:54 * Wizzup looks at hjkl Sep 02 09:27:03 is the same for uk,nl,us keyboards Sep 02 09:27:07 and probably for many more Sep 02 09:27:14 like ; : keys Sep 02 09:27:15 etc Sep 02 09:27:16 not the mention the extreme ease it is to remapping keys Sep 02 09:27:18 what Sep 02 09:27:21 are super different Sep 02 09:27:22 cmon Sep 02 09:27:24 how does vim even use ; Sep 02 09:27:28 that makes no sense Sep 02 09:27:29 I have to do shift period to get : Sep 02 09:27:36 what does that have to do with vim? Sep 02 09:27:41 everything Sep 02 09:27:43 ;( Sep 02 09:27:45 lol Sep 02 09:27:59 I've used vim for more than 10 years and I am european, and never had an issue with it Sep 02 09:28:03 maan u tellin me rn im full of excuses Sep 02 09:28:06 Regardless of the keyboard layout Sep 02 09:28:08 Yes, you are Sep 02 09:28:09 n im just lying to myself to procrastinate Sep 02 09:28:11 Yes Sep 02 09:28:11 :/ Sep 02 09:28:22 what country you from ? Sep 02 09:28:36 maan I know .. I need to work on myself, forreal Sep 02 09:28:39 I've typen on al major european keyboard layouts, and it's all fine for vim Sep 02 09:28:46 ggdG yourself Sep 02 09:28:49 s/typen/typed Sep 02 09:29:11 maan :( you know how hard I get when I see people using i3, ranger and VIM?! Sep 02 09:29:23 I don't think I want to know... Sep 02 09:29:29 they spend 30 seconds doing 30 mins of work Sep 02 09:29:30 ;( Sep 02 09:30:16 & look at me, fucking peasant with his mouse, barely knows regex Sep 02 09:31:06 for christs sake, I'm using a fucking WEB CLIENT for IRC Sep 02 09:34:41 http://www.openvim.com/ Sep 02 09:34:46 okay now there's no more excuses lol Sep 02 09:38:10 quick question, IOMMU pci-e passthrough, can I run my Linux on the iGPU and Windows on GTX 980Ti (via Passthrough) (and what software/how do i even do this) or should I buy a secondary GPU (well I might have to anyway since my monitor is 144hz, but dunno if I need that for anything but games but remains to be seen), I have some 6970's laying around Sep 02 09:38:10 but not enough power molex or whatever connectos on my psu Sep 02 09:42:25 Pali: have a couple of minutes? while trying to build mce on upstream, I end up with a dependency to hald-addon-bme. ANd there is no more hal. I wonder what is the best way to deal with that. u-power? Sep 02 09:42:32 Wizzup: the same question ^^^ Sep 02 09:43:34 yes, I'm there Sep 02 09:43:53 godd, see the question ^^^ Sep 02 09:43:56 *good Sep 02 09:44:19 if you need replacement for hal in current debian/ubuntu, then yes upower is probably the best replacement for battery Sep 02 09:44:36 mce in mer has battery-upower codule Sep 02 09:44:40 *module Sep 02 09:44:52 but is has battery-bme module as well :) Sep 02 09:45:07 ideally drop whole bme stuff Sep 02 09:45:13 mhm Sep 02 09:45:22 we already moved n900 drivers into kernel Sep 02 09:45:35 which uses standard power supply interface Sep 02 09:45:41 yes, I know :) Sep 02 09:45:48 oh, mer mce has bme-dbus-names.h in it Sep 02 09:45:48 so upower should be able to handle it Sep 02 09:46:11 ok, yet another thing to rewrite :( Sep 02 09:46:16 but it is probably hard to simulate old bme dbus interface (e.g. signals) Sep 02 09:47:48 why do you think that? I see nothing special here https://github.com/community-ssu/hald-addon-bme/blob/master/dbus-names.h Sep 02 09:48:03 yes Sep 02 09:48:08 unless I am missing something Sep 02 09:48:19 they are just dbus signals + some method for request Sep 02 09:48:32 upower has different dbus interfac Sep 02 09:48:33 e Sep 02 09:48:55 sure, but iiuc mce translates them to mce dbus iface Sep 02 09:49:35 ah, you man there are more consumers to bme dbus? Sep 02 09:49:53 yes Sep 02 09:50:04 so I should write a daemon that does bme<->upower translation? Sep 02 09:50:06 e.g. battery widgets, etc... Sep 02 09:50:15 shit Sep 02 09:50:21 that is the qustion Sep 02 09:50:31 I think that battery widget uses HAL Sep 02 09:50:57 in original maemo system, bme daemon provides that dbus interface Sep 02 09:50:57 yes Sep 02 09:51:06 battery-widget uses hal Sep 02 09:51:18 in bme replacement, that dbus interface was moved into hald-addon-bme Sep 02 09:51:27 so it should be rewritten as well, or we can use the one from gnome Sep 02 09:51:46 so that hal plugin provides both: HAL interface and also bme dbus interface Sep 02 09:51:53 it was not movet, it was already there Sep 02 09:51:59 *moved Sep 02 09:52:19 dbus iface that is Sep 02 09:52:23 so if we need compatibility, we need to provide both HAL interface and also bme dbus interface Sep 02 09:52:32 we can't provide hal Sep 02 09:53:01 if no, then all things needs to be rewritten Sep 02 09:53:14 and question is if we really need bme dbus interface? Sep 02 09:53:26 * Wizzup wonders that too Sep 02 09:53:44 I guess no, but I don;t really know upower Sep 02 09:54:07 Pali: there is no hal in modern distros, you know :) Sep 02 09:54:18 I know Sep 02 09:54:20 maybe we can move to udev, but does it qorth the effort Sep 02 09:54:25 *worth Sep 02 09:54:33 * freemangordon goes for more coffee Sep 02 09:54:50 How much effort would it be, any idea? Sep 02 09:55:14 udev is for devices in /dev/ and for /sys/... events Sep 02 09:55:30 uopwer is for battery/charge info Sep 02 09:56:47 Wizzup: which one? moving mce from bme to upower shouldn't be that hard, as there is already module-upower in mer's mce Sep 02 09:57:11 does Mer mce uses upower by default? Sep 02 09:57:16 *use Sep 02 09:57:20 but, moving battery applet and who-knows-what-else is hard to be assessed Sep 02 09:57:26 TheKit: NFC Sep 02 09:57:54 battery applet sounds like it should not be too complicated Sep 02 09:58:17 TheKit: but, I guess it uses whichever is available, as bot bme and upower modules are compiled Sep 02 09:58:40 Wizzup: :nod: Sep 02 09:59:01 hello all :) has anybody encountered an issue where n900 asks for the WEP passphrase when trying to connect to WPA network? because of this I can't connect to some WPA networks Sep 02 10:01:12 I remember having this issue the first time I had my n900, I tried flashing the device but no luck Sep 02 10:01:24 so any volunteer on that one? :) Sep 02 10:01:42 right now I'm setting up a vm for jenkins and auto builds Sep 02 10:01:49 will try to see how far I can get tomorrow with parazyd Sep 02 10:01:58 ok, so you're out of the equation Sep 02 10:02:03 TheKit: ??? Sep 02 10:02:27 hmm, wait, mce should be me Sep 02 10:02:35 unfortunately Sep 02 10:04:53 Pali: WTF is statefs? Sep 02 10:05:14 where you have it? Sep 02 10:05:27 https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/mce/blob/master/modules/battery-statefs.c Sep 02 10:06:04 no idea Sep 02 10:06:09 I have not hear about it Sep 02 10:06:22 freemangordon, it's FUSE fs used in Mer Sep 02 10:06:44 ah, thanks Sep 02 10:08:03 freemangordon: btw, you're working with parazyd to get an image for a33 tablets with working mali right? Sep 02 10:08:06 I know -you- have it working already Sep 02 10:08:22 i can try the stuff when i'm back in ams Sep 02 10:08:28 the tablet is there Sep 02 10:08:29 ok, so the plan is - copy bme dbus-names.h from hald-addon-bme to mce, and copy mer battery-upower from mer's mce to fremantle's Sep 02 10:08:32 I have a tablet here Sep 02 10:08:37 https://pastebin.com/3j63r6tg - statefs Sep 02 10:08:57 Pali: Wizzup: ^^^ is that sound ok? Sep 02 10:10:02 Wizzup: ah, I just tried allwinner devuan image, I guess I(we) will have to do it once the repos ar up and full of packages so we will be able to install fremantle on allwinner Sep 02 10:10:27 ack Sep 02 10:10:30 without compiling on the device itself as I did back then Sep 02 10:10:40 I have pretty powerful arm hw nowaways Sep 02 10:10:59 anyway, what about my question ^^^? Sep 02 10:11:08 re mce and bme Sep 02 10:11:17 ok Sep 02 10:11:56 I hope they didn't change mce's internals too much Sep 02 10:17:03 Any idea as to why my N900 doesn't recognise DCIM as Camera folder, and instead points to .camera in both Images and File Manager? Camera saves to DCIM, though. Sep 02 10:17:23 Wikiwide: you're missing a file, gimme a minute Sep 02 10:17:59 Wikiwide: user-dirs.dirs in ~/.config folder Sep 02 10:19:11 Missing, true. Sep 02 10:19:12 Wikiwide: https://pastebin.com/PKuG1GS0 Sep 02 10:19:23 this is what you should have there Sep 02 10:19:37 UMM Sep 02 10:19:53 but I don;t remember if you have to reboot or some xdg-whatever command should be executed Sep 02 10:19:56 I just upgraded from Ubuntu 16.04 straight to 17.04 without doing 16.04 -> 16.10 -> 17.04 Sep 02 10:20:02 what the fuck ?? how is that even possible? Sep 02 10:20:13 That is not weird at all... Sep 02 10:20:22 Jeff13: .10 are dev releases Sep 02 10:20:30 .04 are LTS Sep 02 10:20:35 17 is not lts Sep 02 10:20:40 16.04 and 18.04 are Sep 02 10:20:41 yaeh but every guide ever says you gotta 16.04 -> 16.10 -> 17.04 Sep 02 10:20:41 right Sep 02 10:20:47 16.04 and 18.04 is lts Sep 02 10:20:50 i get that :P Sep 02 10:20:50 Jeff13: I have not seen such a 'every guide ever' Sep 02 10:20:57 I often go from 12.04 to 14.04 to 16.04 Sep 02 10:21:06 17.04 is not LTS Sep 02 10:21:16 so? Sep 02 10:21:17 yup, I did 12.04->14.04 on my desktop Sep 02 10:21:21 a LTS is just a normal distro version Sep 02 10:21:26 supported for a longer time Sep 02 10:21:28 mhm Sep 02 10:21:35 okay fine Sep 02 10:21:35 :p Sep 02 10:21:45 omgubuntu can go fuck themselves Sep 02 10:21:52 Jeff13: as long as it boots ... :D Sep 02 10:21:53 asking me to restart twice to upgrade twice Sep 02 10:22:00 yeah it booted but Sep 02 10:22:04 networking didn't work :) Sep 02 10:22:22 had to touch /etc/NetworkManager/conf.d/globally managed devices blah blah Sep 02 10:22:31 I guess it works now you're here :) Sep 02 10:22:41 yeah :( Sep 02 10:22:46 sometimes I miss Windows Sep 02 10:22:47 lol Sep 02 10:23:03 is it impossible to use Mer version? Sep 02 10:23:04 no, you don;t, you just think you miss it Sep 02 10:23:10 WELL Sep 02 10:23:18 NotKit: I guess too much was changed there Sep 02 10:23:18 >_< Sep 02 10:23:29 well well :/ Sep 02 10:23:35 I wish more people used Linux Sep 02 10:23:42 for desktop** Sep 02 10:23:53 and I don;t wanna go through all the commits for the last 6-7 years to see what exactly has changed Sep 02 10:23:54 it's no secret that using Linux for desktop usage SUCKS BIG DICK Sep 02 10:24:21 What about laptop usage? Sep 02 10:24:41 Disclaimer: I regularly use CentOS on overpowered desktop. Sep 02 10:24:55 NotKit: maybe, once we have all the stuff in place we can start thinking about using stuff from mer Sep 02 10:25:11 Wikiwide: I am using ubuntu 14.04 on my corporate laptop Sep 02 10:25:46 aww maan how do I deal with this crap?? install some PPA's or something ?? The following packages will be REMOVED: Sep 02 10:25:47 xorg xserver-xorg-core-hwe-16.04 xserver-xorg-hwe-16.04 Sep 02 10:25:47 xserver-xorg-input-evdev-hwe-16.04 xubuntu-core xubuntu-desktop Sep 02 10:25:47 The following NEW packages will be installed: Sep 02 10:25:47 xserver-xorg-core Sep 02 10:25:47 Crunchbang user here? Lol Sep 02 10:26:01 I use gentoo on all my personal stuff, alpine on servers and containers, ubuntu for one of my jobs, gentoo for the other Sep 02 10:26:11 obviously I won't let that shit run through but yeah how do I fix it so xorg isn't held back Sep 02 10:26:47 I am not the admin, just one of many people using it. Because Windows networking is very inferior when compared against Linux (ssh, sftp, X forwarding...) Sep 02 10:26:54 Jeff13: I guess you should read about ubuntu HWE Sep 02 10:27:15 or not ?? Sep 02 10:27:23 up to you, ofc Sep 02 10:27:25 pause.. not Sep 02 10:27:25 xD Sep 02 10:27:30 hmm Sep 02 10:28:16 freemangordon : thanks a lot! Worked immediately, no need to write any command lines upon creating the file. Sep 02 10:28:29 :) Sep 02 10:29:03 Linux Sucks Sep 02 10:29:26 cause Bryan Lunduke says so Sep 02 10:32:46 I know it is possible to write a Note for a contact in address book. Now, with a suitable telepathy plugin, would it be possible to auto-create contact's directories (optionally unwatched by tracker and .hidden from file manager), where documents received from contact (or sent to the contact) would be put, and then request (from address book) file manager to open the .hidden directory, or Photos to show images from .hidden directory? Sep 02 10:33:27 with suitable rtcom* plugin, I guess; it has nothing to do with telepathy. Sep 02 10:38:42 sure Sep 02 10:41:08 maybe a glance at http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/contact2 and http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/contact gives you ideas. Hint: it seems you can add arbitrary properties to a contact Sep 02 10:42:46 And then plugin for photos, to be able to click not only "Camera", "Custom", "All", but also "Contacts" (and select some or all Contacts from the list) Sep 02 10:43:29 sorry, lacking context Sep 02 10:44:07 "gallery", not "photos"? Sep 02 10:44:22 or is that about telepathy Sep 02 10:45:58 you could probably add a vcard attribute like "datadir" to contacts in contact db Sep 02 10:47:12 when somebody sends DCC files, a telepathy/purple/whatever plugin could write those to the path found in contacts db in attribute "datadir" Sep 02 10:47:58 how do I change mouse speed? Sep 02 10:48:08 I already did this: http://www.webupd8.org/2016/08/how-to-completely-disable-mouse.html Sep 02 10:48:23 but now after I updated Xorg my mouse speed is halved and I DO not want mouse acceleration Sep 02 10:48:35 I'm not entirely sure but I *think* there are plugins to "Contacts" app to handle such stuff in a special way, so you could open filemanager when clicking on the field "datadir" Sep 02 10:50:36 Jeff13: interesting question. Hildon desktop never been made for mouse, and you don't want any acceleration etc with touch pointer Sep 02 10:50:52 I can't stand acceleration Sep 02 10:50:57 I just want to double my mouse pointer speed Sep 02 10:50:58 statically Sep 02 10:51:56 you might want to wait until some user familiar with generic gnome desktop drops by. They might have more clue about that stuff than me Sep 02 10:52:08 xinput Sep 02 10:52:18 hi Pali! :-)) Sep 02 10:52:33 that tool can be used to set any X property for input device Sep 02 10:52:37 hi! :-) Sep 02 10:53:15 Jeff13: listen to Pali, you won't find a more knowledgeable person to help you Sep 02 10:54:01 hey Sep 02 10:54:11 had to close firefox bcoz bug when u switch on compositors lol Sep 02 10:54:15 anyhow, resend ur last message Sep 02 10:55:46 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog Sep 02 11:02:50 Hello everybody. I'd like to check the versions of the various os layers which are currently installed on my N900 (Maemo). From the file system down to kernel and bootloader steps. For the file system, I can simply go to settings -> about product. All the rest? Sep 02 11:05:10 for kernel: `uname -a`. For bootloader there's no command to find out the version afaik Sep 02 11:07:11 for filesystems (unless they are monolithic): `modinfo vfat` etc Sep 02 11:07:34 lol I figured out how to fix the mouse Sep 02 11:07:51 the issue is that it reads xserver-xorg-input-libinput instead of some other shits Sep 02 11:08:17 so just typing a bunch of random ass commands to set random properties and boom it goes fast as fuck, then i redisable the acceleration and it works now magically Sep 02 11:08:18 lmao Sep 02 11:08:22 strange how things work ... Sep 02 11:08:29 for ubifs maybe somthing like `ubiattach --version` Sep 02 11:09:02 now magically a lot of issues I had are fixed too in 17.04 :) and compton works beautifully now :) Sep 02 11:09:10 fuck yeah Sep 02 11:10:04 DocScrutinizer05 Ehm I meant system image, not file system, sorry. I mean the actual os components, over the kernel. I get it from settings -> about product, right? Sep 02 11:13:30 yes Sep 02 11:14:07 Ok. Kernel: 2.6.28-omap1. OS: 20.2010.36-2. I got these by flashing an image downloaded form archive.org, where I found a mirror of Nokia repos. Sep 02 11:14:21 ugh Sep 02 11:14:25 ~lf Sep 02 11:14:25 [#maemo lazyflashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach Sep 02 11:14:27 I never cared about getting the latest available upgrades/updates. Sep 02 11:14:50 Now I'm thinking about that. Sep 02 11:15:31 Do I need to flash again or is there another way? And before that, what are the latest versions and where do you suggest to get them from? Sep 02 11:15:47 wait what? you found a mirror of nokia repos at archive.org? Sep 02 11:15:53 Yes. Sep 02 11:16:32 lazyflashing is getting the latest versions for you Sep 02 11:16:50 ~jrtolls Sep 02 11:16:55 ~jrtools Sep 02 11:16:55 i heard jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Sep 02 11:16:59 may help Sep 02 11:17:08 So is it necessary to reflash? No other way? Sep 02 11:17:19 other way to do what? Sep 02 11:17:35 Getting the latest versions of kernel and os. Sep 02 11:17:47 basically no Sep 02 11:18:15 Ah. I thought the seamless software update didn't require flashing, so I could get the cssu in some other way. Sep 02 11:18:37 you should do a decent backup (use BM *and* hildon backup app), then reflash COMBINED Sep 02 11:18:50 ~cssu Sep 02 11:18:50 methinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) Sep 02 11:19:22 yes, SSU gets you the updates, but not when your current system is of totally unclaer state Sep 02 11:20:04 Why unclear? Sep 02 11:20:26 that's how I understood the info you gave Sep 02 11:21:28 particularly >>I got these by flashing an image downloaded form archive.org, where I found a mirror of Nokia repos.<< That's not recommended, the canonical way is to use lazyflashing Sep 02 11:22:04 then proceed to ~jrtool and (as recommended there) fix repos and go CSSU Sep 02 11:22:52 actually forget about ~jrtools, the instructions are already in ~lazyflashing Sep 02 11:24:58 I reported the kernel and os versions, right? That should be clear. About archive.org: please look at http://wiki.maemo.org/Devuan_on_N900, footnote 10 (very bottom of the page). That leads to the flasher, but the system images are around there. If you feel this repository is not reliable, and propose a different one for the flasher, you are welcome in adding that info to the wiki page. Sep 02 11:29:59 so? I told you the canonical way. I'm not really interested in learning about footnotes Sep 02 11:30:18 see topic Sep 02 11:30:23 ~lf Sep 02 11:30:24 i guess #maemo lazyflashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach Sep 02 11:31:57 there's no need for a repository proposal, it's all already there Sep 02 11:32:11 ☺ Sep 02 11:36:58 Ok. When I wrote the wiki for Devuan, I tried to put there a comprehensive info about where to find the various pieces needed in order to reproduce the various steps. I also reported that info about where one may find a working flasher. I'm just proposing to you to have a look at the repository I found on archive.org, and if you think it's not suitable to add a better info on the wiki page. Sep 02 11:39:07 I propose you read and understand http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach Sep 02 11:39:37 ~tabletsdev Sep 02 11:39:37 somebody said tabletsdev was http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ http://wiki.maemo.org/Tabletsdev , http://tabletsdev.maemo.org (all defunct, thanks Nokia) or the nice site http://www.fladnag.net/downloads/telephone/n900/tools/, or http://www.mmnt.net/db/0/0/93.81.63.203/repositories/skeiron.org/skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads, or http://maemo.muarf.org/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads/ Sep 02 11:39:47 ~combined Sep 02 11:39:47 combined is, like, the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/, or http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/bin/n900/ Sep 02 11:39:59 ~emmc Sep 02 11:40:00 emmc is, like, is http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22YHFSICNA/--LID--FiRe1275051276916/AE98ED9D_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.CENTRAL-EUROPE_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin or see ~emmc2 Sep 02 11:40:05 ~flasher Sep 02 11:40:05 refer ~flashing; http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz. HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz; list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/ Sep 02 11:41:30 if those are outdated and you found yet another repo in archive.org, fine. We can update those factoids and the websites that refer to the factoid content (repos). But for lazyflashing all that is irrelevant Sep 02 11:48:15 Enrico_Menotti: I don't want to share instructions on how to get the latest fiasco images the way lazyflashing does. Read the shellscript and you may (or may not) understand why Sep 02 11:51:04 anyway the last link in ~combined still works Sep 02 11:51:56 Yes, ok. So, recap. There is this repo: http://web.archive.org/web/20131117073524/http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/nokia_N900/. Contains images up to PR1.3. Links to another page with development environment downloads, where I find the flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2. Sep 02 11:52:14 These repos seem not that bad, so maybe it is worth to record this info. Sep 02 11:52:32 pro hint: latest is 1.3.1 Sep 02 11:53:15 Yes, I know. By the way: does that come from Nokia or is that the code for the CSSU? Sep 02 11:53:26 nokia Sep 02 11:53:36 backported it from CSSU Sep 02 11:54:33 Ah, so the path was PR1.3 -> CSSU -> PR1.3.1? CSSU being the most updated one? Sep 02 11:55:13 err Sep 02 11:55:55 CSSU introduced a security patch to certman/certs that got adopted by Nokia and published as PR1.3.1 by Nokia Sep 02 11:56:48 thus it's irrelevant for installing CSSU if you got PR1.3 or PR.1.3.1 on your device. Anyway CSSU is the source of latest patches Sep 02 11:57:08 CSSU however doesn't ship fiasco images Sep 02 11:58:59 Right. So since I have PR1.3, and I give for granted it is properly installed, I don't need to flash. I may go for CSSU via SSU. Right? Sep 02 11:59:26 there's no fiasco image that has all the updates from CSSU already integrated. The only way to get an up-to-date system is to start with PR1.3(.1) and then install CSSU and run the SSU updates Sep 02 11:59:39 yes Sep 02 12:00:20 Perfect. So I will go for ~cssu Sep 02 12:00:27 ~cssu Sep 02 12:00:27 methinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) Sep 02 12:02:01 Thanks for the useful discussion and related info. Now F1 qualifications. :) Forza Ferrari! Sep 02 12:02:19 enjoy! :-) Sep 02 12:04:46 Enrico_Menotti: secret stuff: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/dirsnapshot2.png Sep 02 12:04:51 ;-) Sep 02 12:05:06 do NOT post ascii URLs anywhere!!! Sep 02 12:05:17 or all this will vanish in no time Sep 02 12:05:58 you know, patent trolls and their spiders :-/ Sep 02 12:16:22 as soon as my logs show suspicious access, that stuff gets locked and this becomes unavailable Sep 02 13:08:32 DocScrutinizer05 Is that secret stuff in your local system? I see the combined has more than one update ahead of mine (20.2010.36-2), up to 21.2011.38-1 (is that PR1.3.1?). Sep 02 13:09:31 that's Pr1.3.1, yes Sep 02 13:10:08 well, "local" Sep 02 13:10:48 Sorry, I don't get your advice about URLs. You mean the URL could be ruined by automatic "spam" systems, or that those may read the URL and ruin the target content? And how to post a non-ascii URL? Should I put an image file in the wiki? Sep 02 13:11:06 By "local" I mean "not accessible via public Internet". Sep 02 13:21:10 Is there any fb chat alternative on maemo Sep 02 13:21:14 ? Sep 02 13:23:03 irssi Sep 02 13:23:28 Isn't that for irc? Sep 02 13:23:50 Yes? Sep 02 13:24:15 The great Alternative for evil Facebook-Chat Sep 02 14:19:35 Enrico_Menotti: you don't put that stuff in the wiki Sep 02 14:20:27 I meant that I will remove that stuff when you do Sep 02 14:21:28 maybe mirror it to Mega, for example? Sep 02 14:21:59 there's already a truckload of mirrors Sep 02 14:23:45 I was trying to recall to myself some things I had found a few months ago about the boot process of the N900. By wandering around over the Internet, and from various places (also mailing lists), I re-constructed the thing: 1. OMAP bootrom; 2. Nokia X-Loader (signed); 3. NOLO; 4. kernel etc. Now the FIASCO image contains, besides kernel and rootfs, three other images: xloader, secondary, and 2nd. The first is the Sep 02 14:23:45 X-Loader. From the flasher-3.5 help, I think the secondary is NOLO (is this correct?). But what about 2nd? The help says "NOLO cold flasher image". Is this only used when cold flashing? Sep 02 14:24:05 DocScrutinizer05 Ok, I won't put URLs in the wiki. So where I put them? Sep 02 14:24:17 nowhere Sep 02 14:24:22 you put *my* URLs nowhere Sep 02 14:24:45 you can clone the stuff, but dont go chatting about the source link Sep 02 14:25:18 how hard is it to understand that patent trolls use google Sep 02 14:25:57 and I think everybody knows how google works, Buzzword spider Sep 02 14:27:59 ((Is this only used when cold flashing?)) yes Sep 02 14:31:32 coldflashing means: you need to flash the bootloader (thus 'cold' since the system isn't "warm" from booting yet). T od that you need... the bootloader's flashing algo, which flasher loads to RAM like a rescueOS - this RAM loaded interim bootcode is 2nd Sep 02 14:31:53 To do* Sep 02 14:34:01 once coldflashing restored xloader+NOLO (they actually are one chunk in one partition), the normal falshing process can use the working NOLO in flash storage to flash the rest of the image Sep 02 14:34:31 for more accurate and specific details, ask Pali Sep 02 14:35:34 Ok, so on standard boot we have bootrom -> X-Loader -> Secondary -> kernel, right? And on cold flash, bootrom -> 2nd uploaded to RAM -> X-Loader + NOLO flashing? Pali, may you confirm, please? Sep 02 14:36:43 DocScrutinizer05 You talk about "your" URLs. Sorry, I'm a bit stupid, but I don't understand. May I put the archive URL on the wiki, or not? Sep 02 14:37:33 archive is not "my" maemo.cloud-7.de stuff Sep 02 14:38:34 you don't put URLs containing the string "fiasco&co" anywhere Sep 02 14:39:08 Enrico_Menotti: basically yes, for cold flahs it is bootrom -> uploaded 2nd+nolo to ram --> normal flash xloader+nolo Sep 02 14:39:15 err fiasco+co Sep 02 14:40:06 Pali Where nolo = secondary, right? Sep 02 14:40:13 yes Sep 02 14:40:58 Pali One last thing: on normal flash, 2nd is not used, but xloader+nolo are anyway flashed. Right? Sep 02 14:41:02 and basically NOLO is a u-boot frankenstein Sep 02 14:41:17 2nd is only for cold flash Sep 02 14:41:42 Yes, ok. But xloader+nolo are flashed also on normal flash? Sep 02 14:41:52 no, on normal flashing xloader+NOLO are not touched at all Sep 02 14:42:14 afaik Sep 02 14:42:45 if you supply full fiasco image, then also xloader and nolo are flashed Sep 02 14:42:52 as they are part of fiasco image Sep 02 14:43:08 if they were, you'd need coldflash to recover from failed normal flashing that ruined them way more often Sep 02 14:43:32 hmmm Sep 02 14:43:54 I'm sure that when flashing full fiasco image, then also included nolo+xloader are flashed Sep 02 14:44:09 also cmt image is flashed Sep 02 14:44:19 maybe NOLO is 'smart' enough to not flash xloader or itself when ther new version is identical Sep 02 14:44:29 seems no Sep 02 14:44:33 it flash it always Sep 02 14:44:41 What is cmt? I was wondering about those files. Sep 02 14:44:51 cellular modem Sep 02 14:44:55 you're sure? did you patch NOLO then flash and verify the patch is gone? Sep 02 14:45:11 yes, I had patches nolo with different colors Sep 02 14:45:24 and after flashing full fiasco, it was reverted Sep 02 14:45:35 ok, that's stupid by NOLO and its authors Sep 02 14:45:48 also I dumped whole communication between flasher-3.5 and usb protocol Sep 02 14:46:01 so I saw there that whole xloader and nolo image is sent Sep 02 14:46:13 downloading NOLO image doesn't mandate it getting flashed Sep 02 14:46:22 but you are unable to flash only nolo Sep 02 14:46:31 you need to send both xloader and nolo image Sep 02 14:46:38 and then send command to flash them Sep 02 14:46:39 yes, since it's one chunk with xloader Sep 02 14:46:53 one partition Sep 02 14:47:02 not exactly truth Sep 02 14:47:08 nolo has own partition scheme Sep 02 14:47:21 and in nolo, xloader and nolo are on different parititons Sep 02 14:47:27 hmm, I'm prolly too distracted right atm Sep 02 14:47:46 basically that mtd0 which is visible in linux is divided into mtd0 and mtd1 in nolo Sep 02 14:48:06 and in nolo then there is mtd2 which is linux's mtd1 Sep 02 14:48:08 IroN900:~# cat /proc/mtd Sep 02 14:48:09 dev: size erasesize name Sep 02 14:48:11 mtd0: 00020000 00020000 "bootloader" Sep 02 14:48:12 mtd1: 00060000 00020000 "config" Sep 02 14:48:14 mtd2: 00040000 00020000 "log" Sep 02 14:48:24 and everything is shifted Sep 02 14:48:35 in nolo mtd0 has smaller size Sep 02 14:48:48 ohmy Sep 02 14:48:49 note that mtd parition size is just SW thing Sep 02 14:48:58 hardcoded in kernel Sep 02 14:49:00 :ack: Sep 02 14:49:16 so you can patch kernel to have fully different layout Sep 02 14:49:27 e.g. divide rootfs into more partitions Sep 02 14:49:46 but because nolo has fixed parition for kernel, you must have kernel image at that offset Sep 02 14:50:06 otherwise nolo would not boot your custom kernel Sep 02 14:50:39 but you maybe could merge initrd partition to kernel partition Sep 02 14:50:52 initfs partiton that is Sep 02 14:51:00 no you cannot, because booting is done by nolo Sep 02 14:51:15 nolo has hardcoded kernel part together with it size Sep 02 14:51:32 even if NOLO doesn't grok it, it might still allow to load uBoot and have kernel spanning over both partitions Sep 02 14:51:42 so, yes, you can extend kernel part in linux kernel image, but that would not be visible for nolo Sep 02 14:52:09 NOLO only needs to 'see' the uBoot part Sep 02 14:52:27 hm.. you could put uboot into kernel part and then teach uboot to see "long" size with initfs Sep 02 14:52:34 yes Sep 02 14:52:37 exactly Sep 02 14:52:58 but easier would be tell uboot to loader kernel from initfs :-) Sep 02 14:53:06 and no need to hack with partition sizes Sep 02 14:53:16 that's another possibility Sep 02 14:53:37 DocScrutinizer05: you have qflasher tool and also xloader+nolo images for qemu, so you can look into nolo debug console :-) Sep 02 14:55:07 Pali (About cmt.) Ah. The infamous closed-source code which has not been RE yet, right? Sep 02 14:55:22 Pali What is the qflasher? Sep 02 14:55:35 also it is signed and probably also encrypted Sep 02 14:55:43 cmt? Sep 02 14:55:45 DocScrutinizer05 would know more? Sep 02 14:56:01 Enrico_Menotti: cmt is the modem firmware. You don't even consider REing that Sep 02 14:56:20 yes, afaik cmt firmware is cryptosigned Sep 02 14:56:22 qflasher is a tool for creating mtd partition dump with filling CAL + supplied images, suitable for booting from qemu Sep 02 14:56:41 prolly not encrypted Sep 02 14:56:51 at least downgrading cmt is not possible Sep 02 14:57:11 you could tell, feeding the cmt stuff to a tool like hexrays Sep 02 14:57:35 it's also a ARM Sep 02 14:59:32 google Nokia BB5 Sep 02 14:59:46 Ehm sorry, but the closed-source layer which needs to be re-written in order to use the modem in a different OS (not Maemo), e.g. Devuan - the one which ofono tries to replace - what is that? The cmt modem firmware may be used on any OS? Sep 02 15:00:25 Pali I didn't understand anything about qflasher, sorry. It's my fault, yes. Sep 02 15:01:28 Enrico_Menotti: BB5 modem is a complete system on its own. The cmt firmware is the OS for that system. The closed blobs in maemo are for talking to the interface (SSI, ISI protocol) Sep 02 15:02:09 The main thing required for calls on mainline at this point is REing the pulse plugins afaik Sep 02 15:02:11 cmt itself is not a part of maemo Sep 02 15:02:18 you can already make basic calls, but the quality is terrible Sep 02 15:02:52 Wizzup Yeah I read that. Sep 02 15:03:41 the quality suffers from cmtspeech driver not implemented in a correct way, afaik. The audio plugins add a bit to quality but not that much, they mainly add echo cancelation, confort noise, dynamic compression etc Sep 02 15:05:11 the problem with cmtspeech is: cmt is master, APE is slave. And slave needs to adjust own audio clock according to timing adjust messages sent by master via ISI Sep 02 15:05:29 *vry* screwed Sep 02 15:05:35 very* even Sep 02 15:06:09 the maemo BB5 Nokia crew fscked up that design Sep 02 15:06:23 the protocol is abysmal Sep 02 15:07:36 the problems from bashing an existing modem into shape by sledgehammer Sep 02 15:07:49 iirc nokia "fixed" audio quality by own audio filters Sep 02 15:08:10 that's a completely different story afaik Sep 02 15:08:35 pali: LOL Sep 02 15:09:03 BB5 is a genuine Nokia design Sep 02 15:09:13 something which should probably be done in analogue hw or on DSP Sep 02 15:09:20 used in 5 dozen different phone models Sep 02 15:09:31 and nokia implemented those filters via vector instructions on cpu Sep 02 15:09:49 neon Sep 02 15:10:02 yes, those are the PA-plugins Sep 02 15:10:25 and that is another mistake Sep 02 15:10:31 but again, those are only marginally contributing to speech quality Sep 02 15:10:42 but very important Sep 02 15:10:49 not really Sep 02 15:10:56 without them audio quality is terrible Sep 02 15:11:25 did you tests by replacing them with dummies while keeping the genuine cmtspeech stuff? Sep 02 15:12:02 nemo n900 port did it Sep 02 15:12:27 they had oficial recompiled binaries of those plugins for nemo Sep 02 15:12:28 all terrible audio I've heard (of) was due to defects in cmtspeech, not due to missing or defective PA_nokia Sep 02 15:13:24 it is possible that those plugins are trying to fix also those defects... in software Sep 02 15:13:31 nokia (c) solution Sep 02 15:13:45 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if wireshark has dissectors for cmtspeech ISI Sep 02 15:13:56 not possible Sep 02 15:14:28 you can't fix packet loss with a filter Sep 02 15:14:44 try to ask pavelm, he did lot of work with cmtspeech and has own system with audio call support, so probably have also some cmtspeech isi parser Sep 02 15:15:23 anyway folks, I'm busy. Sorry. o/ Sep 02 15:16:20 on a last bright sidenote: Neo900 has plain PCM audio on modem, no nifty plugins and no cmtspeech needed Sep 02 15:17:00 N900 cmt is a PITA Sep 02 15:21:29 http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf - I could trash about 30% of assumptions in there, but that'S why cmtspeech is so terrible Sep 02 15:23:08 slide 9 and on Sep 02 15:23:51 >>Cellular Modem sends up-link timing adjustment messages<< Sep 02 15:24:41 >>Align up-link buffering according to message || Change UL timing with 5 ms granularity<< Sep 02 15:24:58 cmtspeech nightmare Sep 02 15:25:07 totally fsckd up Sep 02 15:25:52 this design is/was used for symbian phones? Sep 02 15:26:56 no, only for maemo afaik Sep 02 15:27:18 symbian never had an APE centric audio approach Sep 02 15:27:34 actually on symbian you hardly find devices with an APE Sep 02 15:28:05 Symbian AIUI regularly run INSIDE the modem Sep 02 15:29:37 the audio via SSI / ISI was a brute force adaption of BB5 for maemo / NIT afaik Sep 02 15:30:22 and the design of this unique protocol been FUBAR Sep 02 15:31:31 they should have used normal PCM instead, or at _very_ least add a decent FIFO buffer for audio data, both directions Sep 02 15:31:47 into the modem Sep 02 15:33:17 I mean, audio in realtime via a network (ISI via SSI), with a timing precision of 5ms, that's INSANE. Particularly when you use no FIFOs and rely to >>Cellular Modem sends up-link timing adjustment messages<< Sep 02 15:34:22 that's so... WROOOOOONG Sep 02 15:35:43 that looks like it needs real-time kernel + os Sep 02 15:35:51 to work reliable Sep 02 15:36:10 that's what you got, with cmtspeech and cgroups and PA Sep 02 15:37:24 the whole audio mess mainly orginates from this particular idiocy Sep 02 15:38:08 last slide is the nail to that coffin Sep 02 15:38:18 because BB5 Nokia team said "Duh! we can't do this any better way. Take it or leave it" Sep 02 15:39:04 >>Thanks! to Lennart Poettering for the invitation<< ROTFL indeed Sep 02 15:39:11 Ah Sep 02 15:39:18 * APic misread BB5 as „BBS“ Sep 02 15:39:27 Good old Mailbox-Systems back in the 1990s 😉 Sep 02 15:40:42 why on the earth they have not used DSP in n900 for all those audio processing Sep 02 15:41:02 looking it at, it must be expensive even for neon instructions on cpu Sep 02 15:41:47 Pali: why on earth they didn't use the already existing DSP *and algos* in *modem*? Sep 02 15:42:24 I bet they have not got documentation/information Sep 02 15:42:56 prolly not, yes Sep 02 15:43:14 [2017-09-02 Sat 17:38:17] because BB5 Nokia team said "Duh! we can't do this any better way. Take it or leave it" Sep 02 15:44:42 but actually the structure on p,15 isn't wrong. The ISI audio interface is Sep 02 15:45:23 mic EQ and transducer processing belongs to APE. No doubt Sep 02 15:45:56 8<->48 and call audio processing not that much Sep 02 15:46:30 and the "SSI speeech driver" aka cmtspeech is the real PITA Sep 02 15:47:30 8<->48 could have been done entirely in modem Sep 02 15:48:04 large parts of "Call Audio Processing" as well Sep 02 15:48:58 well, then maybe they had to reinvent it in telepathy-sofiasip or whatever Sep 02 15:49:20 sofiasip is for SIP Sep 02 15:49:26 you probably mean telepathy-ring Sep 02 15:49:35 the affiliated RTP stuff then Sep 02 15:49:39 that is for maemo cellular Sep 02 15:49:54 I mean SIP/RTP Sep 02 15:50:29 it's also telephony and aiui uses "Voice source" and "Voice Sink" Sep 02 15:52:44 that's why I suggest to link Neo900 modem audio as a simulated SIP channel Sep 02 15:53:53 it would need _very_ little effort to get any arbitrary modem hooked up as a virtual SIP/RTP device and simply pipe RTP to PCM|whatever and SIP to AT|whatever Sep 02 15:54:32 Men, I'm reading with much interest your conversation. Now I'm starting to understand why phone calls are so hard to do in a different OS. Sep 02 15:54:59 worst case (dvel *really* lazy) you could run a local asterisk and simply hook up the modem via an asterisk plugin Sep 02 15:55:28 Enrico_Menotti: :-D Sep 02 15:59:48 Enrico_Menotti: maemo has a truckload of optimizations in "middleware" to guarantee flawless phonecalls Sep 02 16:00:57 actually the whole maemo5 is very much focused at phonecalls as priority #1 Sep 02 16:01:17 from kernel to PulseAudio to GUI Sep 02 16:01:51 no other OS could even think to compete Sep 02 16:02:04 linuxy OS Sep 02 16:03:30 Symbian etc were made for phonecalls to start with, and any other stuff like "apps" etc were only afterthoughts Sep 02 16:06:16 generic linux systems fall short of two things: focus on realtime audio, realtime interactive responses, priorization of calls over everything else - and standby time optimization Sep 02 16:08:55 for the typical linux, audio is as "challenging" as "play mp3 music without terrible dropouts", and about standby there's not even a real concept yet, only slowly emerging from the laptop/tablet sector which has way lower requirements aka larger batteries Sep 02 16:10:12 still all laptops and tablets know two states: active and greedy, or suspended and non-responsive Sep 02 16:10:59 there's no "inactive and extremely power saving but still highly responsive" concept Sep 02 16:11:34 maemo however does exactly this Sep 02 16:16:12 Thanks all. Meanwhile there has been a swimming competition going on in Monza at 300 km/h. Unfortunately Ferrari completely lost it. Pole to Luis Hamilton. Congrats for the new world record, ahead of Michael Schumacher. Sep 02 16:17:54 now, an hour later, busy for good, cya o/ Sep 02 16:18:37 Bye - have a nice evening. I'm leaving as well. See you all! Sep 02 17:12:44 hello Sep 02 17:12:49 need help Sep 02 17:13:05 how to autoattach in IRC? Sep 02 17:34:24 codot: hm? Sep 02 17:35:20 sorry if OOT, is it possible to autojoin channel when there is some activity Sep 02 17:36:40 DocScrutinizer05 Sep 02 17:37:28 no, you only can autojoin a channel on IRC client startup (actually on server connect) Sep 02 17:37:59 Hmm so I cannot get notify and autojoin when I left the channel ? Sep 02 17:38:04 DocScrutinizer05 Sep 02 17:38:23 you need to have joined a channel to detect any activity. Then your IRC client could trigger whatever sort of notification Sep 02 17:39:51 Hmm okay. Sep 02 17:49:39 Thanks DocScrutinizer05 Sep 02 17:50:06 yw Sep 02 17:52:01 DocScrutinizer05: my n900 is dry and working :) Sep 02 17:52:16 except for the USB ID surge protection IC that I carelessly chipped off Sep 02 17:52:16 :-D Sep 02 17:52:48 you hints will help me not make any more stupid mistakes Sep 02 18:58:34 tes Sep 02 19:04:42 sepi Sep 02 19:12:32 lah kok exit bgl Sep 02 20:03:38 Enrico_Menotti: I am an f1 fan also 69 was nice Sep 02 20:04:03 69? Sep 02 20:04:14 hamilton # of poles Sep 02 20:04:22 Ah yeah sorry. Sep 02 20:04:40 A sexy # of poles. Sep 02 20:05:03 lol. Well. points only on sunday Sep 02 20:06:01 Yes but without any surprise he will win the race - and probably also the championship, I fear. I expect tomorrow he will overtake Seb in the championship points. Sep 02 20:06:30 race is going to be on dry conditions. So Don't lose your hope Sep 02 20:06:47 Yeah, on dry conditions it's without surprises, I think. Sep 02 20:08:26 So the Red Bulls will be a bit backwards... then we have Hamilton, the young guy I don't remember the name, somebody else from Force India, Bottas, and in third row the two Ferrari, right? Sep 02 20:08:37 Stroll and Ocon Sep 02 20:08:43 Yeah. Sep 02 20:09:46 I hope the Ferrari will be able to overtake Stroll and Ocon, although I fear Ocon is too fast. If they are lucky also Bottas, so Seb may be second or third, in the best case. Sep 02 20:17:31 Enrico_Menotti: on a phone call Sep 02 22:05:11 Ehm... HAM catalogues. I can add a new one manually from the HAM itself, or by browsing to a proper installation file and clicking it. But what if I want to access this information via terminal? Where is the catalogue info stored? Sep 02 22:13:38 /etc/apt Sep 02 22:13:56 and in gconf database iirc Sep 02 22:29:08 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/session-log_enable-catalogs_README.txt and http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/enable-catalogs Sep 02 22:32:24 ${cp} ${store}/${1}/etc/apt /etc Sep 02 22:32:25 ${cp} ${store}/${1}/etc/hildon-application-manager /etc Sep 02 22:35:06 http://paste.ubuntu.com/25454201 Sep 02 22:39:36 Well, thanks, but I was looking for the uri's. I did dpkg -L hildon-application-manager and looked for catalogues. I found that the uri's are stored in /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/catalogues/variant-catalogues.xexp. I just added the muarf.org domain (maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/) and switched from https to http in the uri's. Opening the HAM again seems to work - catalogues are found and uri's are Sep 02 22:39:37 correct. I think I did the right thing - what's your opinion? Sep 02 22:44:08 I also noticed that the /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list is automatically updated by the HAM once the catalogues are updated as I did. (However one needs to switch something, e.g. just click save on a catalogue, in order to trigger the apt source list update.) Sep 02 22:49:30 or you just look at what I posted Sep 02 22:53:07 Yes, I looked at it, but in /etc/hildon-application-manager only the enabled/disabled settings are stored, for what I see. Sep 02 22:57:11 you noticed there's also a file /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list in that ls output? Sep 02 22:59:01 Yes, but if I change it, it gets rewritten by the HAM. Sep 02 22:59:54 well... you are aware of FHS and the meaning of /usr ? Sep 02 23:00:02 and of /etc Sep 02 23:01:36 editing files that get installed from a fpkg is usually not the best idea Sep 02 23:01:44 dpkg* Sep 02 23:03:01 Yeah, I agree. I admit I don't know about FHS and the meaning of /usr and /etc. It's a good time to learn it... Sep 02 23:03:47 ~fhs Sep 02 23:03:47 i heard fhs is the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard and is at http://www.pathname.com/fhs/, or included in the debian-policy package Sep 02 23:05:09 >>/usr is the second major section of the filesystem. /usr is shareable, read-only data. That means that /usr should be shareable between various FHS-compliant hosts and must not be written to. Any information that is host-specific or varies with time is stored elsewhere.<< Sep 02 23:06:16 >>The /etc hierarchy contains configuration files. A "configuration file" is a local file used to control the operation of a program; it must be static and cannot be an executable binary. [4]<< Sep 02 23:09:23 Thanks, that's very useful. I'm reading the document. I was looking for something explaining systematically the filesystem hierarchy. I just wonder what the names "etc" and "usr" mean. Sep 02 23:13:40 usr is something like "Unix System Resources" Sep 02 23:13:55 it's _not_ "User" Sep 02 23:14:03 "etc" it... etc Sep 02 23:14:14 et cetera Sep 02 23:14:50 the names are rather arbitrary, they just have to be well known and unique Sep 02 23:15:55 for some cmdline tools literally nobody knows a meaning of their name Sep 02 23:18:17 :) Sep 02 23:27:36 In any case, I'm trying to correct the default uri's for the catalogues and point them to muarf.org. Seems the way is to change the /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/catalogues/variant-catalogues.xexp, although yes, this should not be done, but hey, the links are dead. At this point HAM finds the repos, but gives a "wrong domain" error in the logs (I tried the update button). In /usr/share/hildon-application-manager Sep 02 23:27:37 / there is also a domains/ directory, where I find a file with keys. What are they? I tried, just to try, to comment them (I put a # in front of them, although probably this is not the right syntax). At this point no more wrong domain error, but a "#" character unexpected. Anyway I am proposed with an update (Maemo 5 security update). So now what is the right character to comment those lines? (Seems an xml...). And Sep 02 23:27:38 what are those keys? There is also the maemo.org/extras repository, also with his keys. They work fine. Sep 02 23:30:48 to correct the *default* uri's for the catalogues and point them to muarf.org, the correct way indeed is to change /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/catalogues/variant-catalogues.xexp Sep 02 23:31:12 though you should do that in repo/CSSU Sep 02 23:33:42 the keys are for security check Sep 02 23:35:24 GAWD!!! doing a rsync copy from /home to external USB3 ext4 drive. This takes aaaaages, in 9h it copied just ~400GB Sep 03 01:23:57 ext4lazyinit my ass **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 03 03:00:01 2017