**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 20 03:00:02 2017 Oct 20 03:34:06 hmm, should apt give some error and suggest using dpkg-reconfigure -a? At least that has been the case when my apt failed from reason or another. Oct 20 05:43:20 next time ss9575 does that drive-by asking I'll quiet them Oct 20 05:46:19 "asking" Oct 20 06:28:43 At least, it's a registered with NickServ user and not an anonymous one? Oct 20 08:03:13 Long time, no see. Oct 20 08:04:52 welcome back :) Oct 20 08:15:50 when the hell is that long overdue and over budget fucking board coming out Oct 20 08:16:59 and in the massive graveyard of linux devices that have been made by phone companies that excel in build quality and phone making, is anyone even going to buy it apart from the weirdos who already ordered it Oct 20 08:18:08 no, because it is made-to-order Oct 20 08:18:23 so there will be no units available otherwise Oct 20 08:19:35 so preorders only Oct 20 08:20:34 and only the people with it will develop for it Oct 20 08:21:03 k. Oct 20 08:21:16 no, because it will use fremantle and/or the next release of maemo Oct 20 08:21:28 who is releasing maemo Oct 20 08:21:37 maemo community Oct 20 08:21:45 who is releasing fremantle Oct 20 08:22:23 how many other maemo devices are there? the almost decade old n900 and... Oct 20 08:22:37 well actually, nokia released maemo. a small group in the maemo community still releases maemo updates Oct 20 08:22:52 I used it until it was useless to me Oct 20 08:23:11 when whatsapp didn't work anymore it became functionally useless as a daily Oct 20 08:23:37 and I think messing around on their servers is what prompted them to encrypt everything. you did that without permission Oct 20 08:23:50 people using whatsapp are self inflicting pain on them Oct 20 08:23:54 I don't anyone interested in the new board is interested in whatsapp Oct 20 08:24:04 s/don't/doubt/ Oct 20 08:24:04 sixwheeledbeast meant: I doubt anyone interested in the new board is interested in whatsapp Oct 20 08:24:24 they're clearly not interested in anything normal Oct 20 08:24:29 wrong Oct 20 08:24:33 #define normal Oct 20 08:24:51 what's an n900 worth these days Oct 20 08:24:57 20-30usd Oct 20 08:25:02 haha fuck off Oct 20 08:25:13 I've seen them for 200 locally in the same condition mine is in Oct 20 08:25:24 sure, and i've seen people buying monster cables Oct 20 08:25:27 so fuck off yourself Oct 20 08:25:39 sixwheeledbeast: tbh I might have been "interested" in whatsapp, just because sometimes that's the "only" way to interact with a group of people Oct 20 08:26:02 (or doing otherwise would be quite awkward/uneasy) Oct 20 08:26:04 it's one of very few ways people with phones chat Oct 20 08:26:17 sadly, yeah Oct 20 08:26:19 girls for example use that shit compulsively Oct 20 08:26:27 "only" is wrong everyone should have the choice, like bookface and skype Oct 20 08:26:40 girls also eat fastfood Oct 20 08:26:43 facebook and skype are worst Oct 20 08:26:43 compulsively Oct 20 08:26:44 sixwheeledbeast: you get my point though ;) Oct 20 08:26:52 which isnt going to do them good Oct 20 08:27:02 of course he does he's trying to pretend like there are viable alternatives Oct 20 08:27:21 yeah, girls are fucking idiots, that's why you stay away from them right Oct 20 08:28:12 bencoh: there's always other options, I cba with anything like that Oct 20 08:28:40 it usually necessitates another person TO TALK to Oct 20 08:29:00 Is this not a conversation Oct 20 08:29:02 ? Oct 20 08:29:11 I see no whatapps Oct 20 08:29:33 "cba"? Oct 20 08:30:23 lol Oct 20 08:30:46 funny how that rant was wrongly directed Oct 20 08:30:51 sixwheeledbeast: err, you know I do agree with you btw, just referring to what (some) people think, and have a large group change their mind and habits isn't always practical Oct 20 08:31:04 to the open software instead of the maker that is against open Oct 20 08:31:40 i know, I was providing conversation. Apparently we are incapable of it... Oct 20 08:36:13 Everyone I know can contact me fine:- phone, e-mail, SMS, XMPP, IRC, forums. I see no need to follow blindly with the crowd and use services with privacy policies I don't agree with. If someone wants to contact you they will. Oct 20 08:36:35 true that Oct 20 08:37:09 you also forgot about direct face to face contact Oct 20 08:37:11 :) Oct 20 08:37:16 I can understand why the maintainer wished to stop support for Whatapp, if the conversation always went that way. Oct 20 08:37:53 face to face you would "normally" arrange first with above. Oct 20 08:38:28 in the past it was also arranged with previous face to face Oct 20 08:39:09 sixwheeledbeast: I eventually always manage to communicate with people as well :) Oct 20 08:39:26 but I cannot force a group of people to move to another platform Oct 20 08:39:35 (especially if I'm the newcomer) Oct 20 08:39:45 :nod: I think society is changing people don't know how to speak to each other without social apps, it's upsetting. Oct 20 08:39:52 it is Oct 20 08:40:15 autistic society Oct 20 08:40:25 divided together Oct 20 08:40:29 well I haven't given in to whatsapp (or any other, for that matters) either, but still Oct 20 08:41:36 You can force anything but if they are worth contacting they should respect your reason for not using xyz, otherwise it's peer pressure. Oct 20 08:41:45 s/can/can't/ Oct 20 08:41:46 sixwheeledbeast meant: You can't force anything but if they are worth contacting they should respect your reason for not using xyz, otherwise it's peer pressure. Oct 20 08:42:18 my fingers and brain seem to have latency this morning. Oct 20 08:43:24 it's not really peer pressure when it's a group Oct 20 08:44:18 and well, technically speaking, if you join a group of person and don't like the way they communicate, you're the one asking for a change Oct 20 08:44:35 you're free to not use the same platform, but you'll be the one left out Oct 20 08:45:35 you are assuming there is only one group quantifier Oct 20 08:46:02 you may join the group for whatever reason, and only subgroup might be doing something you dont like Oct 20 08:46:03 What I am saying is your not asking for change. If they want you to be around they will let you know. peers can be multiple or replaced by social. Oct 20 08:47:16 https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peer Oct 20 08:47:27 one of the definitions: one belonging to the same societal group especially based on age, grade, or status Oct 20 08:48:22 but see: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peer%20pressure Oct 20 08:48:57 by definition 'peer pressure' is almost similar to 'group pressure' Oct 20 08:53:31 Replace whatapp with smoking or drinking for example, some of your friends may smoke or drink but it doesn't stop you going out to the same venues if you don't. They also shouldn't force you to do either to fit in, this is generic teenage peer pressure. I feel it's similar, no matter what age or topic. Oct 20 08:57:37 lol Oct 20 08:58:50 lol... what? Oct 20 08:58:57 It's just fucking laziness. Oct 20 08:58:59 logging bot got kline Oct 20 09:04:42 "it's not really peer pressure when it's a group" -- erhm, yes, it exactly is. You don't submit to the viewpoint of a single individual, you submit because your "peers" (as in, a group of people you interact with) force you towards something. Oct 20 09:05:03 one person can be a group too Oct 20 09:05:16 very specific group usually Oct 20 09:05:27 as in 'spouse' or 'girlfriend' Oct 20 09:05:32 Sure Oct 20 09:06:10 pah, there could be also empty group, as in 'imaginary friends' Oct 20 09:06:13 But typically, peer pressure refers to you being swayed because one of your convictions gets repeatedly challenged by friends. Oct 20 09:12:35 teotwaki: nobody "forces" you, actually Oct 20 09:12:56 peer pressure forces you Oct 20 09:12:57 ;) Oct 20 09:13:17 not really, but if you wanna say so Oct 20 09:13:42 we are raised and conditioned by society, family, people around Oct 20 09:13:52 sure Oct 20 09:14:09 so that conditioning is what is hidden inside us Oct 20 09:14:15 and forces us Oct 20 09:14:28 very indirect, but it is there Oct 20 09:35:39 https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22552847_1856451711034865_2376855600081692336_n.jpg?oh=5cc4b7c551e41a0bfee5eae0117f068d&oe=5A68C955 Oct 20 09:35:42 important book Oct 20 12:30:02 Gamera also wrong that 'our' poking into whatsapp caused them to encrypt things. Oct 20 12:30:10 he left Oct 20 12:30:11 :) Oct 20 12:30:15 yes Oct 20 12:30:20 i'm just adding Oct 20 12:46:17 sicelo: saying to his back :p Oct 20 13:16:23 (( and I think messing around on their servers is what prompted them to encrypt everything. you did that without permission)) stop spreading nonsense! Oct 20 13:23:21 KotCzarny: which logging bot got klined? Oct 20 13:26:12 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if gamera and ss576 were same whining person Oct 20 13:29:51 hmm nope Oct 20 13:34:48 anyway maybe maemo cimmunity should ponder what's the real story behind people chiming in more and more during last weeks with comments like >>is my N900 useless?<< and >>and only the people with it will develop for it<<, but also >>I got this phone for 35 euros and I'm really starting to love it<<. Might be realted to a recently arising discomfort or perceived issue in the Android ecosystem at large, no? And it might hint towards what Oct 20 13:34:50 maemo should "do" Oct 20 13:36:54 first of all we need a CSSU release showing that maemo's not dead Oct 20 13:38:17 then a few peole might ponder to spread the story *why* an old but totally open OS is better than an allegedly "modern" OS with whatshit that deprives you of your rights on your own phone Oct 20 13:38:24 people* Oct 20 13:39:22 and tbh we don't even need Android as the antithesis, we have Harmattan for that Oct 20 13:40:17 HARM already has all the stuff an OS ought and must not have Oct 20 14:41:17 :nod: Oct 20 14:43:41 is it everythink ok with multiple hildon-home: http://wstaw.org/m/2017/10/20/Screenshot-20171020-163511.png ? Oct 20 14:44:00 only last six windows are open Oct 20 14:47:22 wmctrl, never used that before Oct 20 14:53:51 the same effect with 'xwininfo -root -children' Oct 20 14:56:00 http://wstaw.org/m/2017/10/20/Screenshot-20171020-165539.png Oct 20 14:56:41 just curious, OS works fine Oct 20 15:02:39 is it possible plug keyboard to N900 by OTG and keep powered device up at the same time? Oct 20 15:26:06 wmctl is cool Oct 20 15:26:31 i remember i've made a tool for diablo that was based on it and allowed switching non-ossoized windows around Oct 20 15:35:45 sth like that http://paste.debian.net/plain/991865 ? :) Oct 20 15:36:02 yes, it's small & fast Oct 20 15:37:49 nah, it was python app afair, was showing list of the windows to bringo to front etc Oct 20 15:42:30 ~hen Oct 20 15:42:31 from memory, hen is hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode Oct 20 15:42:43 ~hostmode Oct 20 15:42:44 [hostmode] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=652330, or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ, or see ~hostmode-powered Oct 20 15:42:49 ~hostmode-powered Oct 20 15:42:49 rumour has it, hostmode-powered is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203 Oct 20 15:43:20 see YT link ^^^ Oct 20 15:44:00 and what's that multiple hildon-home shows by wmctrl? Oct 20 15:49:21 prolly hidden "windows" e.g the system menu Oct 20 15:49:46 python language is better than shell, but python is much heavy, can it be lighter? maybe by cut some libs off or sth else? Oct 20 15:49:58 4 desktops, appswitcher, applauncher... Oct 20 15:50:34 disabled 4 desktops, only one active Oct 20 15:50:34 for one-off apps, python is good enough, but even for complicated apps it works nicely Oct 20 15:50:55 i have ui for my audio player written in python for example Oct 20 15:51:06 thanks for powered OTG, I'll investigate it Oct 20 15:51:17 yw Oct 20 15:51:20 rewritten it in c later and it also works, with added bonus of requiring ~50% of memory Oct 20 15:51:26 was "fun" to develop it Oct 20 15:54:09 the nice thing in H-E-N app: the VBUS boost mode is via my script, you simply can replace that script by charge21.sh to get charging hostmode instead Oct 20 15:54:30 ~charge21 Oct 20 15:54:30 methinks charge21 is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/charge21_500mA-USBlimit__UNTESTED.sh Oct 20 15:54:53 use both, thx Oct 20 15:55:30 I.E place charge21.sh in place of the original script Oct 20 15:56:18 that's new to me Oct 20 15:57:18 yeah, to me too :-) Just came to my mind, I might augment H-E-N eventually Oct 20 15:57:38 or... is it already? Oct 20 15:58:45 if N900 would have more mem & cpu clock, you probably don't bother to rewrite in C, do you? :) Oct 20 15:59:40 nah, I sould check hardware to find out if VBUS already applied when user clicks "Power" button, then start charge21.sh function if it is, and vboost.sh if not Oct 20 16:00:20 don't know why exactly MohammadAG rewrote H-E-N app in C Oct 20 16:00:52 ff__: i did a rewrite because it was easier and smaller to package it for windoze ;) Oct 20 16:01:18 in linux pygtk is readily available, for windoze it was 300MB package ;) Oct 20 16:02:22 that was I talking about, heavyyy as Oct 20 16:04:52 odds are you got a complete python env installed on your N900 already Oct 20 16:05:01 there's quite a lot of python apps Oct 20 16:05:12 python-based apps Oct 20 16:05:17 are there some converters python -> automatically ? Oct 20 16:05:23 no Oct 20 16:05:44 python is an OO lang Oct 20 16:06:41 it's pretty hard to convert OOP -> procedural lang like C Oct 20 16:07:19 in the end you will get C++ made in C Oct 20 16:07:34 python-based apps eats mem quite high, on N900 can be issue Oct 20 16:07:51 ok Oct 20 16:07:55 and I doubt that fake C++ is more lean than real C++ or Python Oct 20 16:10:08 btw you *can* write more lean code in Python as well, you just don't make everything an object Oct 20 16:10:17 but that's pretty tricky Oct 20 16:10:39 since every string is already an object in Python Oct 20 16:15:15 KotCzarny: ah, you rewrote it already, misunderstood, sorry Oct 20 16:15:31 that's nice :) Oct 20 16:15:59 yeah, standalone binary with required dlls is ~10MB Oct 20 16:16:08 a bit easier to distribute/use Oct 20 16:16:22 good for you Oct 20 16:19:10 I mean good direction Oct 20 16:22:55 I know too little to differentiate between C and python structure Oct 20 16:23:13 my code was trivial to port because i wrote both Oct 20 16:23:20 so no confusion about the flow Oct 20 16:29:21 in that situation sth like borring formality perhaps, most fun is to create Oct 20 16:31:47 it was Oct 20 16:31:59 still is Oct 20 16:33:54 thx for knowledge / links, I go for powered OTG Oct 20 21:32:20 'you're' Oct 20 21:32:28 whoops Oct 21 02:16:42 sorry, but... Oct 21 02:17:44 DAFAQ!!! ZOOT ALLURES IS GREAT MUSIC Oct 21 02:20:02 just don't dare to listen to it as background muzak. This stiff is made to require your 100% exclusive attention Oct 21 02:20:25 stuff, sorry Oct 21 02:22:07 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoot_Allures Oct 21 02:24:00 please ignore "Disco Boy" unless for history Oct 21 02:32:47 when you don't get some appreciation for the *bass* then your sound system is crap Oct 21 02:41:57 I fanybody nowadays is playing a guitar like in "Black Napkins". please let me know Oct 21 02:46:51 My sound system is a set of 2.1ch Creative Labs speakers (the .1 being the reasonable sized Sub-woofer on the floor under my desk) Oct 21 02:47:21 Best speakers I have owned to date and far better than the Logitech crap I used to use **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 21 03:00:01 2017