**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 14 03:00:01 2017
Nov 14 07:31:12 <whitepony> hello
Nov 14 07:39:42 <Vajb> off topic q. Pwd > file prints nothing in file. What to use instead?
Nov 14 07:40:06 <KotCzarny> try lowercase
Nov 14 07:40:13 <KotCzarny> pwd > file
Nov 14 07:40:56 <Vajb> ah i did it like that, but now in channel I felt like respecting rules of using captal letter after dot.
Nov 14 07:41:33 <KotCzarny> you never modify commands used for the sake of human grammar
Nov 14 07:41:43 <KotCzarny> what does pwd alone print?
Nov 14 07:41:50 <Vajb> I stand corrected.
Nov 14 07:42:05 <Vajb> it prints /home/vajb
Nov 14 07:42:20 <KotCzarny> check if you can write to the file
Nov 14 07:42:25 <KotCzarny> ie. echo 123 > file
Nov 14 07:43:01 <Vajb> can
Nov 14 07:43:28 <Vajb> hmm now it did work
Nov 14 07:43:47 <Vajb> does it matter if i use it after pipe?
Nov 14 07:43:55 <KotCzarny> remember that > is special, for example >2 might do something else than > 2
Nov 14 07:44:19 <KotCzarny> also, always paste EXACT comman line that you are struggling with
Nov 14 07:44:30 <Vajb> as of "users > file | pwd >> file"?
Nov 14 07:45:20 <KotCzarny> um
Nov 14 07:45:29 <Vajb> exact line is "date > file | users >> file | pwd >> file"
Nov 14 07:45:36 <KotCzarny> if you want multiple redirections you need 'tee' command to duplicate output
Nov 14 07:45:41 <Vajb> all but pwd part wprks
Nov 14 07:45:44 <KotCzarny> ie. date | tee > file
Nov 14 07:46:08 <KotCzarny> otherwise first redirection eats stream and you get empty 
Nov 14 07:46:21 <KotCzarny> tee has -a option for append
Nov 14 07:46:47 <Vajb> i thought >> should take care of that
Nov 14 07:46:52 <KotCzarny> also think about it, its named pipe for a reason
Nov 14 07:46:59 <KotCzarny> it has one in, one out
Nov 14 07:47:14 <KotCzarny> once you flush it somewhere, nothing else gets out
Nov 14 07:47:23 <KotCzarny> >> is just append version of >
Nov 14 07:49:39 <Vajb> i see
Nov 14 07:50:45 <Vajb> tried with "date | tee > file | pwd | tee > file" and got just date. Obviously i didn't understand something :D
Nov 14 07:50:52 <KotCzarny> nono
Nov 14 07:51:11 <KotCzarny> date | tee file | tee file2
Nov 14 07:51:23 <KotCzarny> and keep in mind what commands do
Nov 14 07:51:29 <KotCzarny> some ignore input, 
Nov 14 07:52:07 <KotCzarny> so in this case there are two gotchas, tee file already writes to file, adding > redirects its output again
Nov 14 07:52:23 <KotCzarny> and second, try: echo 123 | date
Nov 14 07:54:32 <Vajb> it seems i can't make it to work as instructed
Nov 14 07:54:45 <KotCzarny> doing homework?
Nov 14 07:54:47 <KotCzarny> :)
Nov 14 07:55:00 <Vajb> yeah :D
Nov 14 07:55:48 <Vajb> task is to write one liner which writes date, users and current working directory in to a file
Nov 14 07:56:08 <Vajb> i got all but working directory there
Nov 14 07:56:09 <KotCzarny> i can solve it for you
Nov 14 07:56:26 <KotCzarny> but i guess it wouldnt be proper
Nov 14 07:56:27 <KotCzarny> :)
Nov 14 07:56:36 <Vajb> tell me, is pwd even the correct command?
Nov 14 07:56:52 <KotCzarny> hint: echo $PWD
Nov 14 07:57:46 <KotCzarny> also, does one liner means one stream of commands or just multiple commands that just fit in one line?
Nov 14 07:58:03 <KotCzarny> another hint: echo "123 `date`"
Nov 14 07:58:16 <KotCzarny> but i've already told too much 
Nov 14 08:00:53 <Vajb> it says one command or commands in one line
Nov 14 08:20:06 <CatButts> hey guys, any reccomendation for an awfully scratchy screen?
Nov 14 08:20:27 <KotCzarny> external part is cheap 
Nov 14 08:20:40 <KotCzarny> find any broken device and exchange
Nov 14 08:40:36 <CatButts> http://pinouts.ru/CellularPhones-Nokia/nokia_n95_tvout_pinout.shtml
Nov 14 08:40:38 <CatButts> hmmmm
Nov 14 08:40:47 <CatButts> this smells like DIY to me
Nov 14 08:41:45 <KotCzarny> just buy the cable used
Nov 14 08:41:58 <KotCzarny> i've paid 2 usd with shipping locally
Nov 14 08:42:23 <CatButts> pffft
Nov 14 08:42:34 * CatButts puts down soldering hammer
Nov 14 08:42:50 <KotCzarny> also, there is a chance cable will be included with the damaged replacement device you will find
Nov 14 08:43:08 <KotCzarny> image quality sucks anyway
Nov 14 09:42:55 <Vajb> KotCzarny: i solved it by using ; instead of | :)
Nov 14 09:43:57 <KotCzarny> yeah, but best would be: echo -e "$PWD\n`date;users`" > file
Nov 14 09:52:33 <Vajb> gotta love it stuff. Always more than one solution :)
Nov 14 09:58:52 <KotCzarny> exactly
Nov 14 09:58:53 <KotCzarny> :)
Nov 14 09:59:29 <KotCzarny> and when you start using some interpreted languages (perl/php/python/ruby) it's a whole new world
Nov 14 10:03:26 <Vajb> yeah. So far it's been only typescript
Nov 14 13:43:27 <CatButts> ~palmos
Nov 14 13:43:27 <infobot> palmos is probably the second finest OS this bot knows about
Nov 14 13:43:35 <CatButts> hehe
Nov 14 13:43:40 <CatButts> ~garnetvm
Nov 14 13:46:36 <CatButts> https://www.okazii.ro/geam-cu-touchscreen-nokia-n900-negru-original-a189865397
Nov 14 13:46:38 <CatButts> yeeeeee
Nov 14 13:46:41 <CatButts> just my luck
Nov 14 13:57:52 <CatButts> Where can I find Garnet VM besides the now defunct Access gvm page?
Nov 14 13:58:10 <CatButts> archive.org is not working at the moment
Nov 14 15:39:14 <sicelo> ~maemo
Nov 14 15:39:14 <infobot> somebody said maemo was http://maemo.org or freenode #maemo
Nov 14 15:39:46 <atk> so, I've flashed this new N900 board to stock everything
Nov 14 15:39:54 <atk> and I applied CSSU and some stuff
Nov 14 15:40:28 <atk> what's the easiest way to move contacts and message history/call history over from another N900?
Nov 14 15:41:22 <atk> just backup communication and calendar on one and restore it all on the other?
Nov 14 15:55:16 <sicelo> atk: sounds correct
Nov 14 15:55:31 <whitepony> hello
Nov 14 15:56:12 <sicelo> hi whitepony 
Nov 14 16:03:56 <atk> the backup program sits at 0% forever
Nov 14 16:07:52 <whitepony> wwwwwwwwwww
Nov 14 16:07:56 <whitepony> sorry
Nov 14 16:09:35 <sicelo> atk: it is slow iirc. anyway, try doing backup immediately after reboot.
Nov 14 16:10:00 <atk> that didn't work either, I'm just going to download this "glogarchive" program which can apparently just backup the comms
Nov 14 16:10:16 <atk> incidentally, is it possible to boot the n900 without a screen attached?
Nov 14 16:11:45 <sicelo> maybe your el-v1.db is too big for the backup program to handle. delete some conversations, etc.
Nov 14 16:12:18 <atk> hmm
Nov 14 16:12:25 <sicelo> you can also exports contacts as vcards. 
Nov 14 16:12:42 <atk> I keep all my spam emails in a big archive, do you think I'm just going to delete some conversations? :P
Nov 14 16:13:04 <atk> I exported the contacts, but I want the SMS history on the new phone
Nov 14 16:13:15 <sixwheeledbeast> default backup program yes. can take a while
Nov 14 16:13:49 <sicelo> if all else fails, extract the from the bd. it's sqlite
Nov 14 16:14:06 <sicelo> s/bd/db/
Nov 14 16:14:06 <infobot> sicelo meant: if all else fails, extract the from the db. it's sqlite
Nov 14 16:14:34 <atk> ok, that works too... I'll do that if all else fails
Nov 14 16:14:54 <sixwheeledbeast> aren't emails stored in elsewhere
Nov 14 16:15:06 <atk> on my server, yes
Nov 14 16:15:12 <atk> I don't care about the emails on the phone though...
Nov 14 16:15:22 <atk> wait... if backup backs up emails on the phone... that would explain why it takes ages
Nov 14 16:15:40 <atk> I do indeed have maybe 20000 unarchived spam emails, but the N900 shouldn't have downloaded them
Nov 14 16:17:18 <atk> I'll delete that email account from the phone first and maybe try again...
Nov 14 16:19:34 <sixwheeledbeast> sorry I mean on the device, not in the .db
Nov 14 16:22:19 <sixwheeledbeast> I have just started a backup now, lets see how long it takes. I have no email accounts on the device at the moment.
Nov 14 16:27:32 <sixwheeledbeast> backup just finished, but sat on 0% for ages
Nov 14 16:29:56 <atk> oh
Nov 14 16:30:08 <atk> well, I've just started it again after deleting the email account
Nov 14 16:30:28 <atk> another question: how do I install uboot?
Nov 14 16:32:59 <sicelo> same way  you install everything else - application manager. (or apt-get, which is not generally recommended)
Nov 14 16:33:08 <atk> oh, so it's just a package?
Nov 14 16:33:28 <atk> also: yay! the backup is now at 7%
Nov 14 16:34:03 <sixwheeledbeast> ~uboot
Nov 14 16:34:04 <infobot> N900 uBoot is a siamese twin binary [uBoot+stockMaemoKernel] that resides in kernel NAND partition /dev/mtd3 aka "kernel". You can't uninstall it, rather you'll nuke it when you flash/install another kernel like stock maemo kernel or powerkernel. To start other than stock maemo kernel via uBoot, you have to provide the according kernel image files, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613
Nov 14 16:35:08 <atk> ok
Nov 14 16:35:27 <sixwheeledbeast> packages are in the thread with instructions
Nov 14 16:36:42 <atk> only 31MB of SMS
Nov 14 16:37:04 <atk> that seems like a lot actually... I don't text that many people
Nov 14 16:37:16 <atk> ok, time to replace the motherboard with one with a working keyboard
Nov 14 16:37:36 <atk> and a working a lot of other things
Nov 14 16:37:44 <atk> I do hope the SIM and SD slots work
Nov 14 16:38:06 <atk> it's out of an N900 which looks like it was dropped, hopefully no BGA cracks
Nov 14 16:39:21 <sixwheeledbeast> Think my backup was 67MB I did everything
Nov 14 16:46:20 <atk> moment of truth...
Nov 14 16:46:30 <atk> time to see if it can make and take calls
Nov 14 16:47:00 <atk> I'm sure apple will remove that feature from their phones in the next version, so it might not seem as important.
Nov 14 16:48:02 <atk> it connected to my network :D
Nov 14 16:48:31 <bencoh> congratz
Nov 14 16:49:54 <atk> need to wait for the network configuration messages
Nov 14 16:52:06 <atk> it makes and takes calls and receives SMS
Nov 14 16:52:54 <atk> now I'll see if that backup worked
Nov 14 16:55:14 <atk> What's the recommended GPS program for the N900?
Nov 14 16:55:41 <sicelo> maps, you mean? modrana
Nov 14 16:56:13 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/4081970 
Nov 14 16:56:39 <DocScrutinizer05> el-v1.db >1MB means your device comes to a grinding halt
Nov 14 16:57:06 <DocScrutinizer05> well, maybe 2MB
Nov 14 16:59:50 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a flaw in maemo that Nokia sw engineers never considered to fix: el-v1.db can grow to insane mad size and no process will ever take care to clean that stuff out
Nov 14 17:03:04 <atk> 600k here
Nov 14 17:03:11 <DocScrutinizer05> another flaw: missing call end time, fixed by stored procedures patch, see ~jrtools
Nov 14 17:04:00 <DocScrutinizer05> atk: for GPS test there's a tool
Nov 14 17:05:08 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.org/packages/view/location-test-gui/
Nov 14 17:05:51 <bencoh> there's also a more complete, opensource one
Nov 14 17:06:37 <bencoh> gpsdata iirc
Nov 14 17:07:19 <DocScrutinizer05> nore complete?
Nov 14 17:07:22 <DocScrutinizer05> more*
Nov 14 17:08:08 <bencoh> shows satellites / strength
Nov 14 17:08:16 <DocScrutinizer05> ^^^ does
Nov 14 17:08:32 <atk> sicelo: it's complaining about libespeak and espak-data being missing
Nov 14 17:08:38 <atk> Are those in testing/devel somewhere?
Nov 14 17:08:44 <sixwheeledbeast> I have used gpsdata
Nov 14 17:09:04 <sixwheeledbeast> modrana is more for mapping then GPS
Nov 14 17:09:56 <atk> It would be nice to have something from walking-around mapping and also for driving navigation
Nov 14 17:10:36 <sixwheeledbeast> maybe best to pull the master tree from github if you want modrana. I still haven't heard back about getting an updated version in extras-devel.
Nov 14 17:10:40 <atk> Is it normal for N900 to lock on very slowly (GPS) ? My previous N900 and this N900 both seem to take a while to actually get an accurate reading
Nov 14 17:11:26 <DocScrutinizer05> takes like 20s here. with SIM
Nov 14 17:12:02 <sixwheeledbeast> A-GPS should be quick, without can take minutes
Nov 14 17:12:20 <DocScrutinizer05> if you got no SIM and no working SUPL, then... it can take 30min or forever
Nov 14 17:12:44 <atk> A-GPS?
Nov 14 17:13:01 <sixwheeledbeast> supl a-gps
Nov 14 17:13:08 <atk> Maybe both devices had a broken SUPL then
Nov 14 17:13:26 <atk> Because I've had it take minutes and this is taking minutes
Nov 14 17:13:29 <DocScrutinizer05> most likely
Nov 14 17:13:38 <atk> oh well, no GPS for me :P
Nov 14 17:13:41 <DocScrutinizer05> ~supl
Nov 14 17:13:41 <infobot> supl.nokia.com known to be broken, use alternatives like supl.google.com! Adjusting this detail is via settings screen
Nov 14 17:13:42 <atk> any map viewer then?
Nov 14 17:14:10 <sicelo> that factooid should be updated. 
Nov 14 17:14:15 <sixwheeledbeast> supl.google.com no longer works, only fix at the moment is hacking the hosts file.
Nov 14 17:14:18 <DocScrutinizer05> feel free :-)
Nov 14 17:14:25 <sixwheeledbeast> :nod:
Nov 14 17:14:29 <DocScrutinizer05> ~factinfo supl
Nov 14 17:14:29 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: there's no such factoid as supl
Nov 14 17:14:37 <DocScrutinizer05> ~factinfo #maemo supl
Nov 14 17:14:37 <infobot> #maemo supl -- created by DocScrutinizer05 <~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Fri Feb  8 08:26:00 2013 (1740 days); it has been requested 3 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 56s ago.
Nov 14 17:14:44 <atk> sixwheeledbeast: what do you mean hacking the hosts file?
Nov 14 17:14:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ~literal supl
Nov 14 17:14:48 <infobot> "#maemo supl" is "<reply> supl.nokia.com known to be broken, use alternatives like supl.google.com! Adjusting this detail is via settings screen"
Nov 14 17:15:06 <sicelo> atk: modrana for something FOSS. for my needs, built-in Ovi Maps works fantastic.
Nov 14 17:15:24 <sixwheeledbeast> I am going afk, sicelo knows ;)
Nov 14 17:15:34 <sixwheeledbeast> bbl
Nov 14 17:16:58 <bencoh> atk: 52.22.201.16 supl.nokia.com
Nov 14 17:17:36 <atk> can't I just put the IP in the entry box? (I presume I can't)
Nov 14 17:18:39 <sicelo> iirc that doesn't work. you ae welcome to test :-)
Nov 14 17:19:07 <bencoh> I suppose you'd have some ssl verification issue then, but dunno :)
Nov 14 17:19:09 <sicelo> note that supl doesn't work without some updates to the certman packages. see tmo.
Nov 14 17:19:20 <bencoh> ah, right, there's that too
Nov 14 17:19:44 <bencoh> although it works here with stable-ish cssu (and I don't think I manually updated certman)
Nov 14 17:20:00 <atk> having a working keyboard...
Nov 14 17:20:02 <atk> it's amazing
Nov 14 17:20:24 <atk> ~tmo
Nov 14 17:20:25 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, tmo is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMO, or http://talk.maemo.org, or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_Radio#TMO. It's *not* T-MO (see ~T-MO) or trolls, morons, oxen.
Nov 14 17:20:32 <bencoh> I might have manually updated the cert store though ...
Nov 14 17:21:02 <atk> oh, talk.maemo.org... I always get very confused by that acronym
Nov 14 17:21:41 <bencoh> :)
Nov 14 17:32:36 <DocScrutinizer05> apropos, who's going to run a SUPL server for maemo now?
Nov 14 17:33:00 <atk> how do I test if the supl is being used?
Nov 14 17:33:20 <DocScrutinizer05> now THAT's a very good question
Nov 14 17:33:53 <DocScrutinizer05> strace liblocation? no idea
Nov 14 17:35:24 <DocScrutinizer05> find the thread in tmo
Nov 14 17:36:38 <atk> I think I found it, I'm reading through the pages
Nov 14 17:42:20 <atk> hmm
Nov 14 17:42:56 <atk> supl.google.com _seems_ to work
Nov 14 17:43:02 <atk> openssl s_client connects fine
Nov 14 17:43:08 <atk> gps locks quickly
Nov 14 17:43:38 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90651
Nov 14 17:43:56 <atk> yeah... I found that thread
Nov 14 17:44:11 <DocScrutinizer05> ~#maemo supl is also http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90651
Nov 14 17:44:11 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
Nov 14 17:44:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ~supl
Nov 14 17:44:19 <infobot> supl.nokia.com known to be broken, use alternatives like supl.google.com! Adjusting this detail is via settings screen, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90651
Nov 14 17:50:34 <bencoh> it should be "easy" since your phone has been unused for quite a long time and moved location
Nov 14 17:51:18 <bencoh> receiving all the needed information to get a cold fix should take roughly 12mn iirc
Nov 14 17:51:42 <atk> I did actually wait 12 minutes and got a fix while I was researching these SUPL providers
Nov 14 17:51:48 <bencoh> hmm
Nov 14 17:52:48 <bencoh> then we can no longer rely on that unless someone know of a reliable way to reset gps
Nov 14 17:57:46 <atk> on another note
Nov 14 17:58:44 <atk> when I try to install "U-Boot with kernel 2.6.28-omap1" via HAM as specified by http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 I get: "!!!U-Boot with kernel 2.6.28-omap1 breaks the 3rd party package policy"
Nov 14 18:05:24 <sicelo> there is a gps cache cleaner in one of the gps bug reports (bugs.maemo.org)
Nov 14 18:12:00 <atk> And final question: Where do I find quteTube2? I had it installed previously but now I can't find it when searching through HAM
Nov 14 18:13:36 <atk> s/qute/cute/
Nov 14 18:18:02 <atk> ah, I think I need extras
Nov 14 18:19:30 <atk> no, I do have extras
Nov 14 19:01:36 <DocScrutinizer05> ((reliable way to reset gps)) tere's a R&D tool for that
Nov 14 19:05:52 <DocScrutinizer05> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7026#c35
Nov 14 19:06:01 <DocScrutinizer05> btw http://susepaste.org/60305468
Nov 14 19:06:28 <DocScrutinizer05> warfare: xes: council: cert expired! ^^^
Nov 14 19:13:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ((reliable way to reset gps)) tere's a R&D tool for that  http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/clear-gps-cache
Nov 14 19:15:32 <atk> good IRC client for N900?
Nov 14 19:16:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ((cold fix should take roughly 12mn iirc)) well, actually every SV (Sat) sends own position (ephemeral) every iirc 40s, so a GPS chip with enough correlators to try receive all possible codes at all possible doppler shifts would get a cold fix in max 40s
Nov 14 19:17:52 <DocScrutinizer05> without assistance by SUPL or LLRP
Nov 14 19:18:04 <DocScrutinizer05> RRLP?
Nov 14 19:18:26 <DocScrutinizer05> ~gsm-agps
Nov 14 19:18:26 <infobot> RRLP is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://osmocom.org/projects/security/wiki/RRLP
Nov 14 19:19:14 <atk> cool, that worked
Nov 14 19:19:34 <atk> my lock is taking ages again
Nov 14 19:19:54 <atk> now let's try google
Nov 14 19:20:14 <atk> that took seconds
Nov 14 19:20:35 <N900Butts> man, xchat is kinda fugly
Nov 14 19:20:40 <atk> so supl.google.com works
Nov 14 19:20:46 <atk> 10/10
Nov 14 19:21:04 <atk> DocScrutinizer05: today you get a rating of 10/10
Nov 14 19:21:08 <atk> and so does everyone else
Nov 14 19:22:08 <atk> DocScrutinizer05: aside from being fugly, does it work well?
Nov 14 19:22:18 <atk> and also: does it support SASL
Nov 14 19:22:26 <DocScrutinizer05> hm?
Nov 14 19:22:48 <atk> it's authentication based on a client cert
Nov 14 19:23:06 <DocScrutinizer05> what you're talking about?
Nov 14 19:23:06 <atk> you basically have your own self signed cert and provide it to the server and the server has your FP and that's how auth works
Nov 14 19:23:14 <atk> xchat
Nov 14 19:23:44 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh
Nov 14 19:23:49 <DocScrutinizer05> xchat is fine
Nov 14 19:24:06 <DocScrutinizer05> on N900
Nov 14 19:24:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jrxchat
Nov 14 19:24:15 <infobot> i heard jrxchat is <DocScrutinizer05> iSicelo: regarding xchat: some users say it changes from 'unbearable' to 'best IRC client on N900' by using: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/   <iSicelo> yes. i am one of those users who praised your 'tweaks'
Nov 14 19:36:57 <MaemoButts> a lot of these applications feel like halfarsed ports of desktop ones.
Nov 14 19:43:59 <DocScrutinizer05> drive-by ranting?
Nov 14 19:44:30 <sicelo> seems to be CatButts
Nov 14 19:44:38 <atk> sasl on xchat...
Nov 14 19:45:00 <atk> effort_required > effort_available
Nov 14 19:45:06 <DocScrutinizer05> #maemo +q *butts
Nov 14 19:45:24 <atk> I think... you didn't do anything...?
Nov 14 19:45:31 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh
Nov 14 19:45:54 <DocScrutinizer05> new macro
Nov 14 19:50:10 <sixwheeledbeast> atk: I don't think your test will work for supl. I imagine if you use supl.google.com and reboot you will not get a fix.
Nov 14 19:50:38 <sixwheeledbeast> not quickly via supl anyway
Nov 14 19:51:34 <atk> I don't really see why tbh...
Nov 14 19:51:40 <atk> the server IS there
Nov 14 19:51:48 <atk> the cert is correct
Nov 14 19:51:50 <DocScrutinizer05> phmy
Nov 14 19:51:54 <DocScrutinizer05> ohmy even
Nov 14 19:52:24 <atk> I'll try
Nov 14 19:54:24 <atk> I'm still curious about that u-boot error btw
Nov 14 19:54:56 <atk> getting uboot working will be the final piece (I need that so I can put pmOS on an SD card and run it from the N900)
Nov 14 19:55:30 <atk> sixwheeledbeast: I rebooted and got a fix in under 5 seconds
Nov 14 19:57:02 <sixwheeledbeast> hm well it certainly didn't work for a few people a while back. I assume you haven't edited your hosts file yet then.
Nov 14 19:57:36 <atk> the only edit was for supl.nokia.com not for supl.google.com
Nov 14 19:58:16 <atk> with network positioning turned off and a GPS cache clear the GPSData program hasn't even gotten a rough guess of where I am
Nov 14 19:59:46 <atk> I just turned on network positioning and it took 10 seconds
Nov 14 19:59:54 <atk> Yeah... I think it's working
Nov 14 20:03:37 <MaemoButts_> this is rude
Nov 14 20:11:17 <DocScrutinizer05> atk: you have a SIM?
Nov 14 20:11:22 <atk> yes
Nov 14 20:11:28 <DocScrutinizer05> so see RRLP
Nov 14 20:12:01 <DocScrutinizer05> I always get cold fix within 15s and hot fix in <5s with SIM
Nov 14 20:13:56 <atk> Do I need to enable this somehow?
Nov 14 20:14:10 <atk> I mean, SUPL works atm
Nov 14 20:14:13 <DocScrutinizer05> ot's actually unclear if "network positioning" also controls RRLP
Nov 14 20:14:26 <atk> Ah
Nov 14 20:14:30 <atk> I did another test before
Nov 14 20:14:38 <atk> where I passed a broken domain to the entry
Nov 14 20:14:42 <atk> "ssupl.google.com"
Nov 14 20:14:50 <atk> I'll try that again after clearing cache
Nov 14 20:14:55 <DocScrutinizer05> it's however absolutely clear that a missing SIM blocks any RRLP
Nov 14 20:16:16 <DocScrutinizer05> also correct system time has a massive impact on GPS, as paradox as it sounds
Nov 14 20:16:30 <atk> I was aware of that
Nov 14 20:16:46 <atk> Is there some place where I can configure NTP settings on N900?
Nov 14 20:17:02 <atk> I sometimes have had issues with it automatically updating the time correctly (after reboots)
Nov 14 20:17:03 <DocScrutinizer05> well, in NTP ;-)
Nov 14 20:17:22 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo soesn't do NTP 
Nov 14 20:17:32 <DocScrutinizer05> unless you installed NTP package
Nov 14 20:17:46 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo does cellular time
Nov 14 20:17:50 <atk> oh...
Nov 14 20:17:56 <atk> Interesting
Nov 14 20:18:18 <DocScrutinizer05> also only with SIM, obviously
Nov 14 20:18:56 <MaemoButts_> ~uboot
Nov 14 20:18:57 <infobot> N900 uBoot is a siamese twin binary [uBoot+stockMaemoKernel] that resides in kernel NAND partition /dev/mtd3 aka "kernel". You can't uninstall it, rather you'll nuke it when you flash/install another kernel like stock maemo kernel or powerkernel. To start other than stock maemo kernel via uBoot, you have to provide the according kernel image files, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613
Nov 14 20:19:15 <DocScrutinizer05> it makes sense when you think about it: not everybody has a data plan, but everybody with a dataplan has a SIM to do cellmo time
Nov 14 20:19:58 <sicelo> if the networks does cellmo time though .. and if it is working
Nov 14 20:20:14 <DocScrutinizer05> yep ;-D
Nov 14 20:20:20 <atk> "U-Boot with kernel 2.6.28-omap1" - installing this gave me an error from HAM
Nov 14 20:20:30 <atk> it didn't let me install, something about 3rd party package polic
Nov 14 20:20:32 <atk> y
Nov 14 20:20:40 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Nov 14 20:21:12 <sicelo> makes sense ... it is going to override your kernel
Nov 14 20:21:24 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh well, kernel is prolly core system protected by nokia trust
Nov 14 20:21:36 <atk> "!!!U-Boot with kernel 2.6.28-omap1 breaks the 3rd party package policy"
Nov 14 20:22:08 <DocScrutinizer05> atk: enable red pill, checkmark "ignore 3rd party policy" OWTTE
Nov 14 20:22:46 <DocScrutinizer05> ~redpill
Nov 14 20:22:47 <infobot> from memory, redpill is http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode
Nov 14 20:22:50 <atk> owtte - never heard that one before - "or words to that effect" I presume?
Nov 14 20:22:56 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Nov 14 20:25:45 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, I think redpill is available in menu for speedyham, no?
Nov 14 20:26:33 <DocScrutinizer05> IOW check CSSU changelock for "enabled red pill in HAM" or somesuch
Nov 14 20:26:41 <DocScrutinizer05> or simply check your HAM menu
Nov 14 20:26:47 <DocScrutinizer05> to start with
Nov 14 20:27:49 <sicelo> or, if you're prepared to handle the pieces, use apt-get
Nov 14 20:28:11 <DocScrutinizer05> should work for uBoot, yes
Nov 14 20:28:35 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd actually think uBoot qualifies for "cli install package"
Nov 14 20:29:21 <DocScrutinizer05> you don't want uBoot when you're not root and comfy with cli anyway
Nov 14 20:30:18 <atk> I am a professional expert linux CLI user, people think I am hacking into a bank when I use my laptop.
Nov 14 20:30:20 <atk> I think I qualify.
Nov 14 20:30:44 <atk> Although I rarely use apt
Nov 14 20:32:04 <atk> u-boot should have been called uboot from the start
Nov 14 20:32:05 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Reenabled Red Pill mode.<< http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog#Tmaemo5
Nov 14 20:32:54 <atk> "You are going to flash new kernel image into ..... but new version string is not similar...." "old: 2.6.28-omap1" "new: U-Boot 2013.04"
Nov 14 20:32:58 <atk> that looks correct
Nov 14 20:33:19 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Uncomment Red Pill mode GUI option for permanent Red Pill mode<<  Tmaemo10
Nov 14 20:33:31 <MaemoButts_> What's the firefox version equiv of MicroB that ships with n900?
Nov 14 20:34:02 <atk> DocScrutinizer05: I tried enabling red pill and it worked but HAM crashed when I tried to ignore the tppp
Nov 14 20:34:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ugh
Nov 14 20:34:26 <atk> i installed u-boot-flasher anyway
Nov 14 20:34:44 <DocScrutinizer05> changes in GAM menu should see a restart of HAM
Nov 14 20:34:56 <DocScrutinizer05> s/G/H/
Nov 14 20:34:57 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: changes in HAM menu should see a restart of HAM
Nov 14 20:35:04 <sicelo> 3.5 or somehting like that, MaemoButts_ 
Nov 14 20:35:28 <atk> DocScrutinizer05: it crashed (actually said it crashed), after restarting the option was unset
Nov 14 20:35:52 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, you should restart it *without* crah
Nov 14 20:35:58 <atk> ha!
Nov 14 20:36:02 <atk> I'll do that next time
Nov 14 20:36:40 <DocScrutinizer05> start, set option, quit, start again
Nov 14 20:36:52 <atk> the crash happened when I clicked "save"
Nov 14 20:36:59 <DocScrutinizer05> ugh
Nov 14 20:37:10 <atk> well, anyway, uboot is installed
Nov 14 20:37:42 <atk> and the N900 still works
Nov 14 20:38:08 <atk> I wonder how I can turn off these TES Morrowind magic style sounds that the phone keeps emitting
Nov 14 20:38:16 <atk> although actually.. I think they're growing on me#
Nov 14 20:38:33 <DocScrutinizer05> errr *COUGH*  http://paste.opensuse.org/37177206
Nov 14 20:38:44 <atk> Coworkers found it especially funny when they first heard my old Nokia ringtone.
Nov 14 20:38:50 <atk> and also the shaking hands jingle
Nov 14 20:39:49 * DocScrutinizer05 blinks
Nov 14 20:40:04 <DocScrutinizer05> TES Morrowind magic style sounds?
Nov 14 20:41:06 <DocScrutinizer05> http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Sound
Nov 14 20:41:14 * DocScrutinizer05 scratches head
Nov 14 20:41:58 <MaemoButts_> You mean the wooshy thing when you plug charger in?
Nov 14 20:43:35 <mp107> The begging low battery tone also sounds unique
Nov 14 20:45:38 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/3890982
Nov 14 20:47:28 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/66292143
Nov 14 20:50:03 <DocScrutinizer05> ok,   for f in /usr/share/sounds/ui*.wav; do echo $f;play-sound $f; done
Nov 14 20:50:57 <DocScrutinizer05> atk: control volume in profile settings
Nov 14 20:51:11 <DocScrutinizer05> "system tones" or somesuch
Nov 14 20:52:40 <atk> DocScrutinizer05: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDWDS9FjUWw&feature=youtu.be&t=45s
Nov 14 20:52:58 <atk> https://youtu.be/xDWDS9FjUWw?t=45s *
Nov 14 20:53:08 <atk> that whistling sound
Nov 14 20:53:16 <atk> that's what the "usb plugged in" sound sounds like to me
Nov 14 20:53:31 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, it does
Nov 14 20:55:36 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P   http://paste.opensuse.org/91848042
Nov 14 20:55:43 * sicelo loves the usb/charger sound!
Nov 14 20:57:13 <sicelo> hehe DocScrutinizer05. that makes sound on every keyboard slide?
Nov 14 20:57:53 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/1395677
Nov 14 20:57:59 <DocScrutinizer05> need this too
Nov 14 20:58:06 <DocScrutinizer05> and dbus-scripting
Nov 14 20:58:32 <DocScrutinizer05> search for it on tmo, it's explained there in some completely otgher topic thread ;-)
Nov 14 21:03:19 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/
Nov 14 21:05:27 <DocScrutinizer05> sicelo: you can mute the sound by holding lockswitch while sliding open
Nov 14 21:06:44 * DocScrutinizer05 every now and them muses about other funny or useful stuff to trigger by slide-open while holding a button
Nov 14 21:08:52 <DocScrutinizer05> or, start self-destruction on slide-close while holding lockswitch and vol+ ? ;-D
Nov 14 21:09:40 <DocScrutinizer05> for the paranoid Bonds err Bournes
Nov 14 21:12:54 <DocScrutinizer05> FWIW, for the curious minds: http://paste.opensuse.org/54489558
Nov 14 21:16:37 <DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/26140273
Nov 14 21:19:33 <DocScrutinizer05> atk: anyway you can swap /usr/share/sounds/ui*.wav for any other .wav you like
Nov 14 21:21:11 <DocScrutinizer05> atk: note that for ringtones it's waaay more tricky though
Nov 14 21:21:20 <atk> It's fine
Nov 14 21:21:26 <atk> nokia ringtone is the best ringtone
Nov 14 21:21:32 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Nov 14 21:21:36 <atk> when Neo900 arrives, that's going to be my ringtone
Nov 14 21:21:50 * DocScrutinizer05 got some DEVO song
Nov 14 21:24:31 <sixwheeledbeast> er no. Nokia hands and nokia ringtone are the first things to change.
Nov 14 21:24:45 <DocScrutinizer05> Q: Are we not men  A: we are DEVO
Nov 14 21:25:24 <DocScrutinizer05> very convenient uniqueness and spectrum
Nov 14 21:26:30 <DocScrutinizer05> heck no, N900 lies at me
Nov 14 21:27:37 <atk> sixwheeledbeast: nonsense, how will people know that you're stuck in 2008 if your 2008 nokia phone doesn't even sound like a 2008 nokia phone?
Nov 14 21:28:04 <atk> heck, I was even thinking how I might keep the nokia handshake on the neo900
Nov 14 21:28:51 <sixwheeledbeast> Er, opening the keyboard to text. Instantly triggers question of what phone do you have?
Nov 14 21:30:11 <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d43gKl9xIME&feature=youtu.be&t=517
Nov 14 21:33:13 <DocScrutinizer05> https://youtu.be/d43gKl9xIME?t=662 is total misfit for a ringtone, due to dynamic and spectrum
Nov 14 21:33:16 <DocScrutinizer05> a pity
Nov 14 21:33:16 <atk> sixwheeledbeast: every time someone asks if I have an android or apple phone I have to explain...
Nov 14 21:33:48 <atk> I mean... I don't get it...
Nov 14 21:33:53 <sixwheeledbeast> naturally, same for desktop. 
Nov 14 21:33:56 <atk> What are you supposed to change the ringtone to?
Nov 14 21:33:58 <atk> a long beep?
Nov 14 21:34:08 <atk> the sound of an old dial phone?
Nov 14 21:34:17 <sixwheeledbeast> I use the classic "Nokia Low Ring"
Nov 14 21:34:42 <atk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqtPKy3h9-k ?
Nov 14 21:35:02 <DocScrutinizer05> you're aware of the "use as ringtone" option in mediaplayer?
Nov 14 21:35:08 <sixwheeledbeast> well for people I don't know.
Nov 14 21:35:20 <atk> Why would I want a song as my ringtone?
Nov 14 21:35:23 <sixwheeledbeast> I have custom ringtones for all contacts
Nov 14 21:35:25 <APic> Why not?
Nov 14 21:35:26 <atk> then people would know what I listen to
Nov 14 21:35:30 <APic> So?
Nov 14 21:35:32 <MaemoButts> https://youtube.com/watch?v=YBOsBY1djr4 did someone say ringtones?
Nov 14 21:35:34 <APic> lol
Nov 14 21:35:48 <atk> I don't just tell random people what music I listen to!!?!?!
Nov 14 21:35:56 * Maxdamantus uses the start of Rachmaninov's prelude in A minor
Nov 14 21:35:58 <atk> Only close friends get to know that.
Nov 14 21:36:06 <Maxdamantus> or maybe it's A major, can't remember.
Nov 14 21:36:24 <sixwheeledbeast> yes, that Low but a newer version from a later Nokia brick
Nov 14 21:37:22 <atk> whenever I have any ringtone I find the most generic thing I can find
Nov 14 21:37:24 <DocScrutinizer05> atk: LOL, when we were young we had a thing called ghettoblaster ;-P
Nov 14 21:38:04 <atk> 15:9 -_-
Nov 14 21:38:08 <atk> it's five by three
Nov 14 21:38:10 <atk> for fucks sake
Nov 14 21:38:12 <atk> 5:3
Nov 14 21:38:16 <atk> learn to divide
Nov 14 21:38:20 <atk> you innumerate fucks
Nov 14 21:38:21 <DocScrutinizer05> huh?
Nov 14 21:38:26 <atk> wrong channel
Nov 14 21:38:44 <atk> I was very angry at someone stating an aspect ratio
Nov 14 21:38:47 <sixwheeledbeast> I like having a custom ringtone for each contact I know who it is before i look at the screen.
Nov 14 21:39:44 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: there's only one üackage for per-contact ringtones I know of, and that's a very brittle one
Nov 14 21:40:36 <sixwheeledbeast> It's not great but I prefer to have it than not.
Nov 14 21:41:22 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah. Well could prolly use a sanitize/recover script in sysinit
Nov 14 21:41:58 <atk> sixwheeledbeast: how can you find enough generic ringtones for each contact?
Nov 14 21:41:59 <sixwheeledbeast> Should have been implemented by Nokia IMO
Nov 14 21:41:59 <DocScrutinizer05> it's too simple to make that thing mess up your settings and never recover
Nov 14 21:42:10 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, absolutely >:-(
Nov 14 21:43:22 <sixwheeledbeast> I use music, the tracks associated to the person, normally tracks with good intros.
Nov 14 21:43:40 <atk> hmm
Nov 14 21:43:44 <sixwheeledbeast> Can always reflash, and I don't plan on removing it
Nov 14 21:43:48 <atk> But then people know what music you listen to.
Nov 14 21:44:12 <atk> Telling people what music you listen to is like telling people personal details about yourself.
Nov 14 21:45:41 <sixwheeledbeast> I am not worried about that type of information being known in close proximity.
Nov 14 21:46:02 <atk> hmm
Nov 14 21:46:16 <sixwheeledbeast> It's likely they would guess my music taste from my appearance
Nov 14 21:46:31 <APic> *shrug*
Nov 14 21:46:53 <sixwheeledbeast> Especially if I was wearing a Slayer T-Shirt at the time for example...
Nov 14 21:46:58 <atk> hmm
Nov 14 21:47:04 * atk doesn't understand wearing band shirts either
Nov 14 21:47:08 <atk> I guess I'm weird
Nov 14 21:47:32 <CatButts> [21:43] <DocScrutinizer05> drive-by ranting?
Nov 14 21:47:45 <CatButts> switching IRC clients
Nov 14 21:47:55 <DocScrutinizer05> CatButts: yeah, realized that
Nov 14 21:47:58 <atk> CatButts: did you find one which supports SASL out of the box?
Nov 14 21:48:38 <CatButts> what's a sauce-el?
Nov 14 21:48:44 <atk> hmm
Nov 14 21:48:45 <sixwheeledbeast> I suppose it's to show support to a band and spread there name. I am not a huge band t shirt wearer, but it's an example.
Nov 14 21:48:48 <atk> never mind
Nov 14 21:52:09 <CatButts> IrGGu is one I like so far
Nov 14 21:52:22 <CatButts> for the interface
Nov 14 22:04:22 <CatButts> I assume attempting to slap a C/C++ dev environment on the N900 is a few orders of trouble
Nov 14 22:21:05 <APic> Why?
Nov 14 22:49:13 <CatButts> ~gcc
Nov 14 22:49:13 <infobot> methinks gcc is the GNU Compiler Collection, http://gcc.gnu.org/
Nov 14 22:49:16 <CatButts> eh
Nov 14 23:17:33 <DocScrutinizer05> ~sb
Nov 14 23:17:34 <infobot> methinks scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 15 03:00:01 2017