**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 02 02:59:59 2017
Dec 02 09:58:31 <Wizzup> ilew: One thing that I did notice is that this morning I was prompted for a cssu update again, but this time it just wanted to add the normal cssu (not testing) *repo* to ham. Kinda confusing.
Dec 02 10:30:56 <CatButts> hai guise
Dec 02 10:31:16 <CatButts> what's your opinion of the various browsers for the N900
Dec 02 10:31:21 <CatButts> I'll start
Dec 02 10:31:35 <KotCzarny> forget about it. unless for really simple things
Dec 02 10:31:48 <CatButts> stock MicroB: reasonably fast, good integration
Dec 02 10:32:06 <CatButts> opera mobile: crashy, reasonably fast, can select text
Dec 02 10:32:17 <CatButts> Fennec: piss slow
Dec 02 10:32:34 <CatButts> Dillo: rudimentary, very fast
Dec 02 10:32:46 <CatButts> I like Dillo for what it is
Dec 02 10:32:56 <KotCzarny> main advantage of fennec is ability to render quite complicated pages
Dec 02 10:33:43 <Maxdamantus> Opera seems like it's more memory-efficient than microB, though I haven't tested that properly.
Dec 02 10:33:59 <CatButts> prone to locking up
Dec 02 10:34:12 <CatButts> there's also a bunch of other webkit-based browsers, but I didn't stick for long after one of them hanged
Dec 02 10:34:18 <inz> anything dillo doesnt render isnt worth virwing
Dec 02 10:34:18 <Maxdamantus> Usually if I want to render something that doesn't work in Opera I'll use midori in my debian chroot.
Dec 02 10:34:32 <CatButts> oh yeah
Dec 02 10:34:37 <CatButts> Midori, that was the one
Dec 02 10:34:49 <CatButts> not quite so fast :P
Dec 02 10:35:28 <Maxdamantus> It at least has debug tools, which is somewhat usable on the N900, sometimes useful.
Dec 02 10:35:47 <Maxdamantus> or developer tools*, usual name for it.
Dec 02 10:36:27 <Maxdamantus> It seems reasonably fast, but it hits memory limits easily.
Dec 02 10:37:59 <CatButts> oh, that explains the lovkup
Dec 02 10:38:04 <CatButts> *the hang
Dec 02 10:38:39 <CatButts> http://www.netsurf-browser.org/ I wonder how this would fair on the N900
Dec 02 10:38:50 <CatButts> it's C
Dec 02 10:40:48 <DocScrutinizer05> microb can select text
Dec 02 10:41:53 <DocScrutinizer05> gossip has it fennec always been slower than plain firefox
Dec 02 10:43:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ~shortcuts
Dec 02 10:43:17 <infobot> methinks #maemo gestures is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_shortcuts_and_gestures
Dec 02 10:43:55 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_shortcuts_and_gestures#Web_Browser_Gestures
Dec 02 10:47:20 <Maxdamantus> Trying the old version of netsurf in the old version of debian, seems pretty smooth.
Dec 02 10:52:25 <Maxdamantus> But the UI isn't very mobile-friendly.
Dec 02 10:54:58 <Maxdamantus> I suspect a decent solution for me would be using conkeror, possibly with the new version of Firefox that is supposedly more memory-efficient and possibly CPU-efficient.
Dec 02 10:56:42 <Maxdamantus> Though when I checked a week or two ago, Conkeror didn't work with it, since it's using a bunch of things that are no longer supported (but presumably people will be working on that)
Dec 02 10:57:51 <Maxdamantus> I'd be pretty comfortable using Conkeror on mobile .. it's fairly keyboard-orientated, but I'd say it's in a good way.
Dec 02 10:58:13 <CatButts> NetSurf is pretty much ahead of Dillo
Dec 02 10:58:30 <CatButts> not sure how it compares performance-wise
Dec 02 10:58:39 <CatButts> probably similar
Dec 02 10:59:49 <Maxdamantus> I'd expect Dillo to be pretty much the same as Midori or Chrome, assuming they're all using the same version of WebKit/Blink
Dec 02 11:00:13 <CatButts> Dillo does not use webkit
Dec 02 11:00:23 <CatButts> own engine
Dec 02 11:00:36 <CatButts> similarely with NetSurf
Dec 02 11:01:16 <Maxdamantus> Hm, didn't realise that.
Dec 02 11:01:35 <Maxdamantus> I think I was thinking of Epiphany.
Dec 02 15:41:34 <pkill9> how do i update the certificate-authority certificates to the latest? I'm getting lots of SSL errors when using some commandline softwarez
Dec 02 15:44:47 <pkill9> my clock and time is set correctly
Dec 02 16:27:43 <pkill9> then again, MicroB verifies youtube correctly, so it seems to be restricted to python, specifically python3.4
Dec 02 16:45:14 <pkill9> hmm nvm, it's specifically in youtube-dl
Dec 02 16:45:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ask freemangordon
Dec 02 16:47:27 <pkill9> does he maintain the python3.4 package or the certificates?
Dec 02 17:12:16 <DocScrutinizer05> latter
Dec 02 17:49:10 <kalin> does anyone have problem with usb connector on N900?
Dec 02 17:49:46 <kalin> i have to replace my connector because i can't recharge battery
Dec 02 17:50:53 <kalin> now i recharge battery with old 5800XM :D
Dec 02 17:58:47 <pkill9> you may need to fix your USB port kalin, that's a common problem with the n900 apparently
Dec 02 17:58:56 <DocScrutinizer05> ~usbfix
Dec 02 17:58:56 <infobot> i heard usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater), or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYz5nIHH0iY#t=1866, you will basically need two irons: a small good one (or better hot-air reflow) and a 60+ Watt, or to avoid breakage, see ~usb-unplug
Dec 02 17:59:46 <DocScrutinizer05> kalin: ^^^
Dec 02 18:00:45 <DocScrutinizer05> and no, it's actually a common problem with a lot of handheld devices with micro-usb jacks
Dec 02 18:01:02 <pkill9> oh ok
Dec 02 18:02:01 <DocScrutinizer05> seems a few N900 had poor soldering, but... most USB issues are probably just to blame to rough treatment by users
Dec 02 18:02:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~usb-unplug
Dec 02 18:02:21 <infobot> i guess usb-unplug is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140721_002.mp4
Dec 02 18:04:16 <DocScrutinizer05> my gf shown me "look, I need to place that Samsung note 2 to the edge of table, plug in the powerbank and hang it off the table on cable, to bend the USB so it starts charging"  :-S
Dec 02 18:05:36 <DocScrutinizer05> unlike more tech affine people, some users seem to feel absolutely no pain while bending the USB violently in whatever direction. They don't even think it could snap and break
Dec 02 18:10:32 <CatButts> is php5 suppose to be in RootFS?
Dec 02 18:15:17 <CatButts> /usr/lib/cgi-bin/php5
Dec 02 18:15:33 <CatButts> /usr/bin/php5-cgi
Dec 02 18:16:08 <CatButts> I don't think I intend hosting website from my phone anytime soon :P
Dec 02 18:16:19 <CatButts> and if I do, it certainly won't be php
Dec 02 18:16:42 <CatButts> 17mb each file
Dec 02 18:21:02 <kalin> thanx guis
Dec 02 18:22:01 <kalin> i will try 
Dec 02 18:23:14 <kalin> i have a lot experiance with soldering
Dec 02 18:24:52 <kalin> but first i have to find usb female connector and new speakers, because mine is damaged from beats audio driver mod
Dec 02 18:53:54 <DocScrutinizer05> kalin: seems about right for those jnowles speackers, doublecheck the exact size though! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-pcs-Earpiece-Speaker-Receiver-For-Nokia-Lumia-822-520-E71-E66-N85-5800-5610-6500/32808465970.html?traffic_analysisId=recommend_3035_null_null_null&scm=1007.13338.80878.000000000000000&pvid=5dffa137-d68e-4891-a388-6d412979422f&tpp=1
Dec 02 18:54:19 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-pcs-Earpiece-Speaker-Receiver-For-Nokia-Lumia-822-520-E71-E66-N85-5800-5610-6500/32808465970.html
Dec 02 20:28:04 <CatButts> is it me, or are not all extras-devel packages available through HAM
Dec 02 20:28:11 <CatButts> only web interface
Dec 02 20:29:29 <pkill9> i think for libraries and stuff you need to use apt-get
Dec 02 20:37:27 <KotCzarny> only packages with user/* category show in ham
Dec 02 20:56:19 <Vajb> little update. I got the controller working with j2k and can pass letters to terminal, but can't figure out how to pass them to drnoksnes. No matter which of it's windows i choose, commands never get through. I was apple to feed them in while configuring keys, but not while game is running. So i guess drnoksnes takes keypresses in some other way
Dec 02 20:56:43 <KotCzarny> probably wrong window
Dec 02 20:56:54 <KotCzarny> could be solved if -X switch was working
Dec 02 20:57:17 <Vajb> it can't be wrong window
Dec 02 20:57:43 <KotCzarny> there is a chance game looks for scancodes on a lower level than x
Dec 02 20:57:46 <Vajb> it has three windows open while game runs and no matter which i choose they don't work
Dec 02 20:58:08 <Vajb> yes that is what i suspect too
Dec 02 20:59:09 <Vajb> also i noticed that if i start drnoksnes from xterm it doesn't support keyboard at all
Dec 02 21:00:03 <Vajb> anyway, time for me to sleep
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 03 03:00:01 2017