**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 28 03:00:02 2018
Feb 28 06:57:29 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: the reason for #maemo-leste is to keep developer S/N ratio as high as possible. I guess as soon as we have alpha or beta images we'll move here. What we have so far is not really usable for the end-user, but lots of people got excited
Feb 28 06:59:16 <freemangordon> so I would expect to have lots of questions like "my fav app is not available still, could you put it into the repos" in the middle of unrelated conversation regarding mce not talking to systemui, for example :)
Feb 28 07:02:31 <freemangordon> re compatibility with fremantle - again, we do our best to keep it as much compatible as humanly possible. We still didn;t try installing/running stuff from fremantle repos, but the reason being that armel n900 images doesn;t work. Because of armel PVR userspace not being worked on - there are higher priority things ATM
Feb 28 07:03:31 <KotCzarny> is whatsapp already working on leste? ;)
Feb 28 07:03:40 <freemangordon> sure :p
Feb 28 07:04:18 <KotCzarny> for testing oscp is not bad, it is kept to require as few deps as possible
Feb 28 07:04:27 <KotCzarny> s/testing/testing audio
Feb 28 07:05:13 <freemangordon> which is not a good idea until we have xprot packaged for leste
Feb 28 07:05:33 <KotCzarny> you should write it in big letters then
Feb 28 07:05:46 <KotCzarny> those newbies might hurt themselves trying that 
Feb 28 07:05:55 <freemangordon> I think it is written
Feb 28 07:06:38 <KotCzarny> or simply disable loudspeakers by default config
Feb 28 07:06:47 <freemangordon> hmm, it is not :(. We have an issue for that, but still
Feb 28 07:06:53 <freemangordon> they are disabled by default
Feb 28 07:08:14 <freemangordon> https://github.com/maemo-leste/bugtracker/issues/62
Feb 28 07:09:42 <KotCzarny> oh nice that you got pavelmachek on the project
Feb 28 08:30:25 <brolin_empey> Heh, apparently my company has the same size of block for its OUI as Openmoko Inc. (both companies have 2.**24 unique values).
Feb 28 08:32:12 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: Do you know what price Openmoko paid the IEEE for the Openmoko OUI?
Feb 28 08:49:12 <brolin_empey> Or “pow(2,24) unique values” if you speak C instead of Python.
Feb 28 08:51:11 <brolin_empey> Yes, I realise that that is actually a call to a library function, as opposed to an expression without a function call in Python.
Feb 28 08:52:23 <brolin_empey> I mean in the Python language.  The CPython interpreter may call the pow function from the C runtime library.
Feb 28 08:54:26 <brolin_empey> What is the Holy Grail of Python?  Reportedly Guido van Rossum has already procreated so I guess he can no longer offer his firstborn child.
Feb 28 08:58:45 <brolin_empey> Heh, I guess the persons who argue that whitespace rewrites are a waste of time do not use Python.
Feb 28 09:43:39 <Maxdamantus> Wouldn't `2.**24` in Python just mean the same thing as `2..__pow__(24)` or something?
Feb 28 09:44:12 <Maxdamantus> >>> 2..__pow__(24) == 2.**24
Feb 28 09:44:13 <Maxdamantus> True
Feb 28 09:45:47 <Wizzup> sure, but who would use __pow__ :)
Feb 28 09:46:11 <Maxdamantus> Well, the point is that it's just syntactic sugar for a function call.
Feb 28 09:46:30 <Maxdamantus> (afaik .. I don't really know Python very well)
Feb 28 09:47:05 * Maxdamantus is partially surprised he guessed it correctly and that it didn't turn out to be something like `(2.)._exp_(24)`
Feb 28 09:47:56 <Wizzup> Maxdamantus: so is ... == ... and + ... and - ... and * ... ;-)
Feb 28 09:48:03 <Wizzup> __eq__, __add__, __sub__
Feb 28 09:48:17 <Maxdamantus> Indeed. Though is isn't.
Feb 28 09:48:24 <Wizzup> sorry?
Feb 28 09:48:31 <Maxdamantus> is is not.
Feb 28 09:48:43 <Maxdamantus> ... is ...
Feb 28 09:49:21 <Wizzup> oh, the keyword is.
Feb 28 09:49:36 <Wizzup> that is type match, so yes
Feb 28 09:49:41 <Maxdamantus> Is is not, yes.
Feb 28 10:07:23 <KotCzarny> that conversation begins to look like some comedian sketch
Feb 28 10:10:13 <Maxdamantus> What's the guy's name on second base?
Feb 28 10:11:20 <KotCzarny> kisser?
Feb 28 10:11:47 <KotCzarny> or was that 1st base
Feb 28 10:12:05 <Maxdamantus> Who's on first.
Feb 28 12:24:20 <pkill9> nice i didn't know numbers had __pow__ method
Feb 28 12:39:15 <Juesto> ;)
Feb 28 12:39:25 <Juesto> comedy sketch, huh?
Feb 28 12:39:55 <Juesto> stand-up about computers... :D
Feb 28 13:36:01 <sixwheeledbeast> four candles
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 28 16:15:33 2018
Feb 28 16:43:42 <DocScrutinizer05> brolin_empey: OUI?
Feb 28 16:43:59 <KotCzarny> mac pool
Feb 28 16:44:13 <DocScrutinizer05> no idea
Feb 28 16:45:48 <DocScrutinizer05> I know that OM bought their USB ID _before_ the USB folks outlawed sharing USB IDs ;-P
Feb 28 16:47:54 <DocScrutinizer05> hah, my infobot watchdog works
Feb 28 16:50:42 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: if you feel like running XPROT test - I got a 200 spare speakers ;-)
Feb 28 16:51:24 <KotCzarny> lol
Feb 28 16:54:26 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: :D
Feb 28 16:54:26 <DocScrutinizer05> btw <me, 2011> "hello Nokia? How long until you ship the N900? I'm waiting, can't I get an early model and update any firmware fixes later? I would not bother your about any early bugs"  >Nokia Hotline>:"Sorry we can't do this. And you wouldn't want to destroy your speakers with a firmware that doesn't take care, would you?"
Feb 28 16:54:53 <freemangordon> 2011? more like 2009
Feb 28 16:54:58 <DocScrutinizer05> possible
Feb 28 16:55:10 <KotCzarny> or 2008
Feb 28 16:55:20 <Wizzup> actually I may look at testing xprot port next month
Feb 28 16:57:13 <DocScrutinizer05> just saying, XPROT seems to be an afterthought, developed in a hurry under extreme pressure. Expect BS in there
Feb 28 16:58:51 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders what "X" stand for in XPROT. Crash? Exitus?
Feb 28 17:20:05 <freemangordon> eXtended, eXtraterrestrial ?
Feb 28 17:20:25 <DocScrutinizer05> ((expect BS)) actually I think it's quite overengineered
Feb 28 17:20:30 <freemangordon> mhm
Feb 28 17:20:45 <freemangordon> though I don;t expect problems
Feb 28 17:21:00 <DocScrutinizer05> seems to check e.g. environment temperature or somesuch, which is totally irrelevant
Feb 28 17:21:17 <freemangordon> I tested it enough to be sure it behaves in exactly the same way as stock, just faster
Feb 28 17:21:30 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh great! :-))
Feb 28 17:21:48 <DocScrutinizer05> do you understand what exactly it does?
Feb 28 17:22:56 <DocScrutinizer05> not that this would be a requirement
Feb 28 17:23:11 <DocScrutinizer05> just curious
Feb 28 17:23:39 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: see https://notabug.org/freemangordon/pulseaudio-nokia/commit/b11715c65867ce3ac4108237c70bcd2023df9399
Feb 28 17:24:38 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: IIRC it does speaker coil temperature prediction/estimation and controls HPF based on that temp
Feb 28 17:25:05 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, somesuch must be it. 
Feb 28 17:25:42 <DocScrutinizer05> from an engineering POV a simple low frequency energy limiter algo would have sufficed
Feb 28 17:26:22 <DocScrutinizer05> aka frequency selective limiter/ALC
Feb 28 17:26:30 <freemangordon> they might have something already done in symbian and just reused it
Feb 28 17:26:40 <DocScrutinizer05> possible
Feb 28 17:26:48 <DocScrutinizer05> even likely
Feb 28 17:27:29 <freemangordon> because nokia-voice module uses a kind of a "binary executable" (it has a main() function even) embedded in the .so
Feb 28 17:27:40 <DocScrutinizer05> I *think* a simple fixed-parameters HPF would have done just fine
Feb 28 17:27:47 <freemangordon> which I guess was not invented for fremantle/n900
Feb 28 17:28:10 <freemangordon> anyway, I am back to REing connui related stuff
Feb 28 17:28:18 <DocScrutinizer05> oooh nice
Feb 28 17:28:32 <freemangordon> ah, you-re not aware, sec :)
Feb 28 17:29:02 <freemangordon> https://github.com/maemo-leste/icd2
Feb 28 17:29:13 <freemangordon> https://github.com/maemo-leste/connui-common
Feb 28 17:29:22 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: ^^^
Feb 28 17:30:02 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Feb 28 17:42:48 <DocScrutinizer05> you seen the PIA offer I posted in neo chan?
Feb 28 17:51:13 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: no, most of the time int last couple of days I was scratching my head trying to figure out why connui does not work :). Saw it now in the chanlog
Feb 28 17:51:25 <freemangordon> *in the
Feb 28 17:51:47 <Juesto> ;)
Feb 28 18:10:43 <sicelo> ~pia
Feb 28 18:10:43 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, pia is ask me about pita
Feb 28 18:10:55 <sicelo> huh?
Feb 28 18:11:09 <KotCzarny> pia is typo'ed pita
Feb 28 18:11:17 <KotCzarny> which is pain in the a..
Feb 28 18:11:57 <sicelo> i see now, in the chan ... it's an org
Feb 28 18:11:59 <KotCzarny> usually non-native english speakers forget about a/the rules and omit them
Feb 28 18:12:11 <KotCzarny> shh..
Feb 28 18:12:12 <KotCzarny> ;)
Feb 28 18:13:13 <KotCzarny> offtopic, anyone knows the reason or easy fix why chroot'ed commands fail on older kernel? (generic linux)
Feb 28 18:13:30 <KotCzarny> jessie chroot, 3.4.x kernel
Feb 28 18:13:50 <Juesto> there's a kernel channel iirc, debian or devuan?
Feb 28 18:14:18 <KotCzarny> de-systemded debian
Feb 28 18:14:32 <Juesto> you'll get better assistance either in devuan, debian, linux or a kernel channel
Feb 28 18:14:36 <Juesto> then devuan
Feb 28 18:14:43 <Juesto> that's*
Feb 28 18:14:55 <KotCzarny> nah, it's about running scratchbox chroot on jessie
Feb 28 18:15:07 <Juesto> lol infobot
Feb 28 18:15:12 <Juesto> oh
Feb 28 18:15:15 <KotCzarny> the one for n900 work ok, but the one for n8x0 fails
Feb 28 18:15:21 <Juesto> diablo?
Feb 28 18:15:23 <KotCzarny> and both work on mainline kernel
Feb 28 18:15:42 <Juesto> ah i see hmm
Feb 28 18:15:44 <KotCzarny> so probably some thing about glibc/kernel difference
Feb 28 18:15:58 <KotCzarny> but my question is if there is easy tweak/fix 
Feb 28 18:16:09 <Juesto> no clue but should :)
Feb 28 18:16:20 <Juesto> what errors it gives
Feb 28 18:16:43 <Juesto> infobot: pia is Private Internet Access
Feb 28 18:16:43 <infobot> ...but pia is already something else...
Feb 28 18:16:47 <Juesto> lol
Feb 28 18:16:55 <KotCzarny> none. it just hangs 
Feb 28 18:17:07 <Juesto> syslog, etc?
Feb 28 18:17:33 <Juesto> as in, anything there?
Feb 28 18:17:42 <KotCzarny> no. it probably hangs on some sysop
Feb 28 18:18:27 <Juesto> should there be some log somewhere imo
Feb 28 18:18:33 <KotCzarny> no
Feb 28 18:18:41 <Juesto> oh :(
Feb 28 18:19:37 <Juesto> is the fs binded correctly? perhaps it's a package conflict somewhere?
Feb 28 18:20:01 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: no, PIA is https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/
Feb 28 18:20:01 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
Feb 28 18:20:28 <Juesto> thanks
Feb 28 18:21:04 <Juesto> sicelo: may i pm?
Feb 28 18:21:27 <sicelo> sure
Feb 28 18:57:26 <mickname> ~flasher
Feb 28 18:57:26 <infobot> refer ~flashing; http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz.   HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz; list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/
Feb 28 18:57:49 <KotCzarny> check ~flashing too
Feb 28 18:57:55 <mickname> ~flashing
Feb 28 18:57:55 <infobot> maemo-flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing
Feb 28 18:58:25 <mickname> I made my n900 bootloop :(
Feb 28 18:58:35 <KotCzarny> ~bootloop
Feb 28 18:58:35 <infobot> hmm... bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. E.g. using ~rescueOS. Or external charger or BL-5J compatible other device.
Feb 28 18:58:47 <KotCzarny> broken fs or flat battery?
Feb 28 18:59:09 <mickname> It was retired to work as a wireless pulseaudio bridge and I messed around with the cssu packages
Feb 28 18:59:23 <KotCzarny> uh oh
Feb 28 18:59:32 <mickname> had been up for around a year, shouln't have touched it :d
Feb 28 18:59:46 <KotCzarny> or did a backup
Feb 28 19:02:52 <mickname> It reboot after the dots hands animation, after reinserting battery, it allows to setup the locale stuff but shuts down after that,
Feb 28 19:04:16 <mickname> I have a feeling that I'll just get a raspberry pi or something to replace it, the poor old n900 struggles at around 60% cpu usage while ssh-tunneling audio
Feb 28 19:04:34 <KotCzarny> rpi is overpriced piece of trash
Feb 28 19:04:42 <KotCzarny> there are better and cheaper alternatives
Feb 28 19:04:56 <KotCzarny> get something with best mainline support
Feb 28 19:05:27 <mickname> Is there such a thing :p
Feb 28 19:05:44 <KotCzarny> allwinner isnt half bad thanks for community efforts
Feb 28 19:06:10 <KotCzarny> but be sure something that is already well supported
Feb 28 19:06:50 <KotCzarny> soc with a53 cores that have aes implemented, rock
Feb 28 19:14:42 <sixwheeledbeast> rpi is useful for it's purpose, teaching. They where never suppose to be used as servers and other things people use.
Feb 28 19:15:33 <KotCzarny> nor any other cheap sbc
Feb 28 19:16:07 <sixwheeledbeast> your n900 will be repairable and unlikely to be slow if you start fresh
Feb 28 19:16:07 <KotCzarny> i bow to rpi foundation for making hobby sbc popular
Feb 28 19:16:29 <KotCzarny> but other than that, i swear by boards with mainline support
Feb 28 20:23:59 <pkill9> sixwheeledbeast: what boards are a decent equivalent to the Pi
Feb 28 20:24:01 <pkill9> ?*
Feb 28 20:24:19 <KotCzarny> all of them
Feb 28 20:24:29 <sixwheeledbeast> like beagleboard if sbc?
Feb 28 20:24:41 <pkill9> but the orangepi can have power issues
Feb 28 20:24:46 <KotCzarny> nope
Feb 28 20:24:47 <Juesto> it's all competitive :)
Feb 28 20:24:50 <KotCzarny> only user inflicted
Feb 28 20:24:55 <pkill9> maybe
Feb 28 20:25:10 <KotCzarny> ie. going cheapest of the cheap
Feb 28 20:26:14 <pkill9> so what alternatives are there to the Pi, other than beaglebone and banana pi (all that i know of), also there's that x86 board
Feb 28 20:26:21 <KotCzarny> no
Feb 28 20:26:21 <pkill9> can't remember what it's called
Feb 28 20:26:24 <KotCzarny> bananas are bad
Feb 28 20:26:28 <KotCzarny> only a20 ones are decent
Feb 28 20:26:45 <KotCzarny> you think of asus tinkerboard probably
Feb 28 20:27:12 <pkill9> you said all of the boards are a decent equivalent to the Pi
Feb 28 20:27:24 <pkill9> nah it was something else
Feb 28 20:27:29 <KotCzarny> but there are better and worse 
Feb 28 20:27:39 <KotCzarny> bananas are on the worse end
Feb 28 21:04:02 <sixwheeledbeast> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_single-board_computers
Feb 28 22:56:29 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: I meant this block of MAC addresses: https://hwaddress.com/company/openmoko-inc Yes, I know that the certificate for this Web site has expired.
Feb 28 23:40:43 * Oksanaa wonders if 15MB of /usr/share/vim/doc+syntax+spell+tutor+autoload should be moved out of home and into, say, MyDocs; probably not...
Feb 28 23:41:24 * Oksanaa just changed "Used" space of /home from 94% to 64% by deleting messages with attachments from local Sent folder of Modest email client
Feb 28 23:42:56 <Oksanaa> PocketSphinx model is 13MB for only one en_US language; if user wants to use PocketSphinx for, maybe, three languages, then moving PS's models out of /usr/share and into MyDocs might be helpful
Mar 01 00:01:24 <brolin_empey> Why did Nokia not simply use the 32-GB of eMMC for everything?
Mar 01 00:05:50 <Maxdamantus> It's not only an issue of using eMMC over flash, but also using the ext3 partition (/home) over the FAT32 partition (/home/MyDocs)
Mar 01 00:05:59 <Maxdamantus> er, /home/user/MyDocs *
Mar 01 00:06:56 * Maxdamantus just has everything not boot-related on a single ext4 partition. No flash, no FAT32.
Mar 01 00:09:49 <Maxdamantus> If I were to run a newer kernel, I'd probably just make a single btrfs volume out of eMMC and SD.
Mar 01 01:02:18 <pkill9> found the x86 pi equivalent i was thinking of earlier: Lattepanda
Mar 01 01:03:24 <pkill9> Maxdamantus: do you know about maemo-leste?
Mar 01 01:11:44 <Maxdamantus> pkill9: not really. I've heard it mentioned here but haven't looked into it.
Mar 01 01:12:29 <Juesto> Maxdamantus: for now it's dev but it's about running a patched Fremantle on modern devuan
Mar 01 01:12:48 <pkill9> yeah, which means current kernel
Mar 01 01:13:03 <Juesto> ~ftpf
Mar 01 01:13:14 <Juesto> ~fptf
Mar 01 01:13:15 <infobot> well, fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308
Mar 01 01:13:56 <Juesto> evolution of ^ (?)
Mar 01 01:13:59 <Juesto> kinda
Mar 01 01:16:17 <pkill9> Maxdamantus: the main project page is at maemo-leste.github.io
Mar 01 01:16:28 <pkill9> i recommend checking it out
Mar 01 01:16:37 <pkill9> i got it booted up on my n900
Mar 01 01:17:23 <Juesto> eh it's quite barebones for now.... pkill9 don't be too excited about it yet
Mar 01 01:17:26 <pkill9> it's not really reliable for day to day use yet though
Mar 01 01:17:46 <Juesto> phoning is yet to come yeah
Mar 01 01:17:58 <pkill9> they got 3G data workign ahven't they?
Mar 01 01:18:30 <pkill9> according to here they have https://maemo-leste.github.io/pages/n900-status.html
Mar 01 01:19:07 <pkill9> i don't really use mine as a phone, i use it as portable internet tablet and portable linux shizz
Mar 01 01:19:24 <Juesto> yea but still fighting with it and not calling yet
Mar 01 01:19:28 <Juesto> afaik
Mar 01 01:19:35 <pkill9> ok
Mar 01 01:19:42 <Juesto> sms working
Mar 01 01:19:51 <Juesto> but very bare yet
Mar 01 01:20:03 <Juesto> phone not complete
Mar 01 01:29:49 <Maxdamantus> Mm .. still without looking too much into it, I feel kind of sceptical of the devuan thing.
Mar 01 01:30:50 <Maxdamantus> My feeling is that it should mostly be a matter of getting the relevant programs/libraries into mainline debian, but I don't think I'd be willing to put that much effort into it.
Mar 01 01:33:44 * Maxdamantus would rather put the effort into just modifying dwm or something to be usable on a mobile device, and finding something to manage SMS/calls.
Mar 01 01:48:21 <Juesto> Maxdamantus: devuan is debian minus systemd, no difference!
Mar 01 01:48:31 <Juesto> openrc is used for init
Mar 01 01:48:49 <Juesto> oh, that would be complicated on n900
Mar 01 01:49:07 <Juesto> this work is slightly better
Mar 01 01:49:33 <Juesto> it's a separate repository and you uboot leste from sd
Mar 01 01:49:50 <Juesto> leste has a separate deb repo*
Mar 01 01:53:43 <Maxdamantus> Juesto: sure, but why does most of maemo care what init system is used?
Mar 01 01:54:35 <Juesto> uhh
Mar 01 01:55:02 <Juesto> it's just a preference after all
Mar 01 01:55:11 <Juesto> devs pref*
Mar 01 01:55:21 <Juesto> i guess
Mar 01 01:55:34 * Juesto shrugs
Mar 01 02:00:45 <Oksanaa> Maxdamantus : I just dislike the growing list of programs depending on systemd. It is as if systemd intends to become irreplaceable monopolist...
Mar 01 02:10:54 <Juesto> lol
Mar 01 02:10:59 <Juesto> nice way to put it
Mar 01 02:11:10 <Juesto> tell that to #systemd Oksanaa 
Mar 01 02:11:34 <Juesto> Oksanaa also good morning ;)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 01 02:59:59 2018