**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 31 02:59:58 2018
Oct 31 05:08:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ginggs: interesting at least
Oct 31 05:55:06 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: My father is interested in using an ARM Linux SBC based upon the Allwinner H2 for a project but he wants to know which GNU+Linux distributions are supported on this platform?
Oct 31 06:18:34 <sparre> Is there an alternative to the now defunct Nokia GPS assist server?
Oct 31 06:22:22 <Vajb> sparre: I have it set to use supl.google.com, but I don't actually use it so I have no idea if it actually works.
Oct 31 06:22:32 <KotCzarny> brolin_empey: many, but look at armbian (they have images for debian and ubuntu)
Oct 31 06:23:35 <KotCzarny> also, if the board is 'unsupported' all it needs is some DT tweaking usually
Oct 31 06:23:47 <KotCzarny> and h2+ is essentially h3
Oct 31 06:25:34 <DocScrutinizer05> ~supl
Oct 31 06:25:35 <infobot> supl.nokia.com known to be broken, use alternatives like supl.google.com! Adjusting this detail is via settings screen, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90651
Oct 31 06:25:51 <sparre> Thanks!
Oct 31 06:26:34 <DocScrutinizer05> a year or 2 ago, we discussed in hetre to run our own maemo SUPL server but nobody volunteered to set it up
Oct 31 06:28:52 <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: OK, thank you.  What is DT?
Oct 31 06:29:14 <Maxdamantus> device tree
Oct 31 06:31:08 <brolin_empey> Maxdamantus: OK, thank you.
Oct 31 06:51:48 * Maxdamantus wonders why the "Use HTTPS" proxy option in Opera gets reset on startup.
Oct 31 06:55:43 <Maxdamantus> `chown -w ~/.opera/opera.ini` seems to fix that.
Oct 31 06:56:17 <Maxdamantus> Kind of weird that it supposedly updates it on start then rereads it again.
Oct 31 07:20:15 <Maxdamantus> microb seems to behave similarly.
Oct 31 07:20:31 <Maxdamantus> Very weird. Maybe more reminants of insane people.
Oct 31 07:21:01 <Maxdamantus> (keeps setting "network.proxy.type" to 0 in prefs.js on startup)
Oct 31 07:21:43 <KotCzarny> maybe it sets it from network settings
Oct 31 07:21:53 <KotCzarny> ie. from active wifi config
Oct 31 07:23:35 <Maxdamantus> Hm. I guess that would explain it.
Oct 31 07:24:02 <Maxdamantus> Wonder if it can be overridden.
Oct 31 07:24:13 <KotCzarny> sure, change it in network options? ;)
Oct 31 07:24:18 <Maxdamantus> the `chmod -w` trick doesn't seem to work with microb.
Oct 31 07:24:48 <KotCzarny> might be that they do all that initial config dance because it was easiest way to apply system wide tweaks
Oct 31 07:24:53 <Maxdamantus> I mean to disable that behaviour, or else specify that a proxy server is to be used regardless of what connection I'm on.
Oct 31 07:25:13 <KotCzarny> check first if my guess is right
Oct 31 07:25:34 <KotCzarny> then you could simply throw your https proxy into connectivity part
Oct 31 07:28:21 <Maxdamantus> Yes, it avoids resetting it when the proxy is configured through maemo's settings (for a particular wifi connection)
Oct 31 07:29:11 <KotCzarny> i would suggest implanting it systemwide then
Oct 31 07:29:24 <KotCzarny> would probably help with non-browser apps too
Oct 31 07:29:29 <KotCzarny> email? etc
Oct 31 07:30:02 <Maxdamantus> Sure, just can't see how, since the proxy settings at least through the "Settings" program seem to be per access point.
Oct 31 07:30:25 <KotCzarny> is setting's source available?
Oct 31 07:52:08 <brolin_empey> Is there an x86 smartphone with an integrated hardware keyboard?  I could not find one.  I also found only one or maybe two x86 smartphones with an LED (AMOLED) display instead of an LCD.  I am not aware of any x86 smartphone with an electronic paper/ink display either, only the Yota Phone series with ARM SoC and difficult to remove battery.
Oct 31 07:52:18 <Maxdamantus> as for email, not really useful there.
Oct 31 07:52:35 <KotCzarny> maxd: inline attachments?
Oct 31 07:53:50 <Maxdamantus> Well, I don't remember ever running a graphical email client on either desktop or phone.
Oct 31 07:54:03 <Maxdamantus> other than in a web browser, which is already covered.
Oct 31 07:54:17 <KotCzarny> does qt also use system proxy?
Oct 31 07:54:47 <Maxdamantus> I normally use mutt in a debian root, so no issues connecting with that.
Oct 31 07:55:16 <brolin_empey> Also, if the Volkswagen New Beetle has a full-size (16-inch) spare wheel, at least for the 1998 model year that I had, then why does at least one configuration of 2007 Audi A3 have a compact spare wheel?
Oct 31 07:55:53 <_CN_> almost every car nowadays have a compact one unless you pay for a big one
Oct 31 07:55:58 <_CN_> that's not maemo's fault, though
Oct 31 08:00:09 <sixwheeledbeast^> They are normally an added extra. You are lucky you have a space saver spare and not a can of foamy rubbish.
Oct 31 08:02:04 <brolin_empey> I think the 2006 Audi A4 wagon/estate has a full-size spare wheel.  I thought that Volkswagen/Audi still has a full-size spare wheel at least on some models.  I am surprised that, if the New Beetle has space for a 16-inch spare wheel, that the A3 does not.  Maybe you are correct that the full-size spare wheel is an option even for Audi.  I could ask the seller of the A3 I was considering buying, which has a compact spare wheel.
Oct 31 08:07:58 <buZz> maybe its fullsize for the original size wheels ;)
Oct 31 08:12:32 <brolin_empey> I no longer have a European car nor a diesel car.  I had a 1998 Volkswagen New Beetle GLS TDI with 5-speed manual transmission until 2014 June when I replaced it with a 2010 Hyundai Elantra Touring (name used to market the Hyundai i30cw AKA i30 estate first generation in Canada and the USA) Sport Edition with 2.0L I4 naturally-aspirated spark-ignition engine (actually the only engine for the Elantra Touring because Hyundai does not sell a diesel car in North
Oct 31 08:12:32 <brolin_empey>  America) and 5-speed manual transmission but I dislike driving up hills and in heavy traffic with the manual transmission so I was shopping for used cars with a dual-clutch form of automatic transmission, in this case DSG in Volkswagen and Audi cars.
Oct 31 08:13:55 <sixwheeledbeast^> Select the correct gear?
Oct 31 08:13:57 <brolin_empey> The spare wheel in this A3 says the maximum speed for this wheel is only 80 km/h so I do not think this wheel and tire are the same as the original non-spare wheels. ;-)
Oct 31 08:16:42 <sixwheeledbeast^> If it's speed restricted it's a space saver. The diameter of all the wheels must be similar, only the profile will be different.
Oct 31 08:17:51 <sicelo> Maxdamantus: the system-wide proxy setting doesn't seem to really be 'system-wide' - it seems to only be used by applications that specifically look for it, such as microb, of course. Modest/email for example does not use it, even when set
Oct 31 08:18:27 <brolin_empey> Literally, the normal tires also have a maximum speed even if the vehicle cannot achieve that speed. ;-)
Oct 31 08:20:15 <sixwheeledbeast^> standard road tyres have a speed rating (letters are used for this). It's not speed on a yellow sticker.
Oct 31 08:20:52 <inz> VW Polo's spare looked like a motorcycle tire compared to the normal ones
Oct 31 08:21:16 <sixwheeledbeast^> Yep that's a space saver limited to around 80km/50mph
Oct 31 08:21:34 <brolin_empey> sixwheeledbeast^: Yes, I know this, hence me being literal. :-P
Oct 31 08:22:10 <inz> Haven't needed my prius's spare yet (knock on wood) so not sure if it's any good. VW T4 has a full size one at least
Oct 31 08:22:29 <KotCzarny> #maemo -- now on spare wheels!
Oct 31 08:23:51 <Maxdamantus> sicelo: yeah, I'm not too concerned about which programs use it, just that I don't have to configure these things for each internet connection.
Oct 31 08:24:27 <Maxdamantus> I guess things were different back in 2009.
Oct 31 08:24:35 <bencoh> sixwheeledbeast^: supl.google.com does not seem to work http://pastebin.notk.org/pastebin.php?show=m5e493e2e
Oct 31 08:25:15 <sixwheeledbeast^> ?
Oct 31 08:25:52 <brolin_empey> sixwheeledbeast^: I have twelve years of experience as a licensed driver of a car with a manual transmission but have never had a vehicle with a hill holder feature, which is part of why I dislike driving up hills.
Oct 31 08:26:01 <sixwheeledbeast^> I recall reporting supl.google.com has never worked?
Oct 31 08:26:22 <sixwheeledbeast^> That's what the handbrake is for
Oct 31 08:28:09 <brolin_empey> sixwheeledbeast^: Yes, and is why I wore out/broke the drum brakes used for the handbrake on my current car before 65 000 km.  The normal brakes are all disc brakes but the handbrake uses drum brakes.
Oct 31 08:29:06 <bencoh> sixwheeledbeast^: ah, nevermind then, I somehow understood from backlog that you didn't know whether it actually worked or not
Oct 31 08:31:09 <brolin_empey> Anyway, as an end to off-topic vehicle discussion, I recently saw a concrete pumping truck with six axles, all close together, which reminded me of sixwheeledbeast^.
Oct 31 08:31:12 <sixwheeledbeast^> bencoh: I recall a thread on TMO many years ago where it was suspected supl.google.com block some devices?
Oct 31 08:33:39 <brolin_empey> I gather that Google has been caught intentionally causing problems for users of Windows Phone/Windows 10 Mobile because Google wants users to use Android instead of Windows Phone/Windows 10 Mobile.
Oct 31 08:34:11 <sixwheeledbeast^> Not many cars with drums on the rear any more, well over this side the water anyway.
Oct 31 08:34:48 <bencoh> sixwheeledbeast^: I don't quite remember if there was any proper conclusion in this thread
Oct 31 08:34:59 <bencoh> I can see here is ssl_read_data: SSL_ERROR=5, ret=0, errno: Success
Oct 31 08:35:05 <sixwheeledbeast^> bencoh: :nod:
Oct 31 08:35:11 <bencoh> +what*
Oct 31 08:36:10 <sixwheeledbeast^> i dont remember either
Oct 31 08:37:05 <brolin_empey> Alledgedly Google also does not want Windows NT on ARM to take market share from Android nor Chrome OS.
Oct 31 08:38:52 <brolin_empey> Specifically Windows 10 on ARM, not Windows Phone 8, which already used a Windows NT kernel on ARM.
Oct 31 08:40:20 <brolin_empey> sixwheeledbeast^: Only the handbrake uses drum brakes.  The normal brakes on both the front and rear are disc brakes.
Oct 31 08:44:08 <sixwheeledbeast^> Mechanical cable and hydraulic connections for the rear calipers.
Oct 31 08:50:08 <brolin_empey> I should not skip sleep but I am still young and I am still at the office at almost 02:00 so I guess I am not sleeping tonight, sigh.
Oct 31 08:51:36 <brolin_empey> Now I can be the depersonalised from sleep deprivation version of myself for Halloween.
Oct 31 08:53:00 <brolin_empey> Is there a Pumpkin Pi brand of SBC?
Oct 31 08:57:57 <brolin_empey> Does Apple use eMMC on an x86 computer?  I wondered if an x86-64 SBC such as the UP Board or Latte Panda can run Mac OS x86 (Mac OS X for x86 hacked/patched to run on non-Apple computers) but these SBCs use eMMC instead of SATA or NVMe.
Oct 31 09:52:32 <bencoh> Hmmm ... phone actually sends IMSI to SUPL server ....
Oct 31 09:52:38 <bencoh> "yay" ...
Oct 31 09:53:13 <KotCzarny> you have been tracked for so long, does it matter then?
Oct 31 09:53:19 <bencoh> huhu
Oct 31 09:53:45 <bencoh> for some stupid reason I'd rather give that information to nokia than google
Oct 31 09:54:02 <bencoh> (well, back when nokia operated a supl server, at least)
Oct 31 09:54:09 <KotCzarny> make an anonymizing supl proxy?
Oct 31 09:54:35 <KotCzarny> wasnt it some http data anyway?
Oct 31 09:55:05 <bencoh> it doesn't look like "plain http data"
Oct 31 09:55:36 <bencoh> and I'm basically trying to get maemo/location-proxy to work with supl.google.com through supl-proxy, yeah
Oct 31 10:31:00 <brolin_empey> I was curious to know if the VIA x86 CPUs have the same vulnerabilities, such as Meltdown and Spectre, as Intel x86 CPUs.  Apparently at least the VIA C7-M does have the same vulnerabilities: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-90cVBdvR0m8/W9mCLWg8l0I/AAAAAAAABDU/WqTlTRWtuXcxW3iRm5jcmmDrcv3aE6P3QCL0BGAYYCw/h1663/6226600743558986105%253Faccount_id%253D5
Oct 31 11:00:20 <DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: >>sends IMSI<< WTF?!?!!
Oct 31 11:02:42 <DocScrutinizer05> >><KotCzarny> make an anonymizing supl proxy?<< was what we discussed to set up on maemo infra
Oct 31 11:02:46 <DocScrutinizer05> basically
Oct 31 11:03:58 <bencoh> yeah
Oct 31 11:04:18 <bencoh> and yeah, we discussed that here ~10 months ago
Oct 31 15:04:58 <sixwheeledbeast^> brolin_empey: I believe there is a script on github to check the vulnerability
Oct 31 16:03:28 <sixwheeledbeast^> ~phonecontrol
Oct 31 16:03:29 <infobot> phonecontrol is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control
Oct 31 16:20:47 <sixwheeledbeast^> ~sparetyre
Oct 31 16:21:31 <sixwheeledbeast^> :)
Oct 31 16:23:26 <KotCzarny> how many spares sixwheeler has to have?
Oct 31 16:31:24 <sixwheeledbeast^> one
Oct 31 16:32:00 <sixwheeledbeast^> If centre tyre is flat you don't even notice.
Oct 31 16:32:30 <sixwheeledbeast^> rear wheels have redundancy :)
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 31 18:12:35 2018
Oct 31 19:33:08 <halftux> ginggs: thank you yes it is helpful only that patches greater 1mb are not presented but it is still useful
Oct 31 20:04:46 <halftux> has somebody worked with debhelper7 and cdbs-dh7, cdbs-dh7 needs fdupes I don't know why and this package doesn't exists anyone has a clue or a fdupes package?
Oct 31 20:12:49 <ginggs> halftux: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/fdupes/1.50-PR2-2maemo1/
Oct 31 20:16:14 <halftux> yes I have seen this it is broken but cdbs-dh7 is already in extras
Oct 31 20:16:35 <ginggs> halftux: ah right, i see what you mean now
Oct 31 20:45:07 <halftux> ok fixed it by rebuilding package from jessie
Oct 31 20:45:40 <halftux> should I upload it to extra-devel ?
Oct 31 20:54:29 <ginggs> halftux: that would be nice, otherwise cdbs-dh7 will remain non-installable
Oct 31 20:59:18 <halftux> roughly 30kb,the  deb is 21kb should I maemo-optify it? Or at which size should packages optified or should all packages be optified?
Oct 31 21:08:52 <ginggs> halftux: I don't recall any specific rules about that, I'd guess at 21kb it wouldn't be worth the effort
Oct 31 21:33:31 <halftux> the kernel-power-headers are still not imported to extras. promoted 2018-10-20
Oct 31 22:06:21 <halftux> so package debhelper7 is some kind of experimental it has not all helper scripts so not useful for my case I stick to normal debhelper which is also 7
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 01 03:00:00 2018