**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 27 02:59:57 2019
Jan 27 06:01:42 <Vajb> sicelo: meaning that someone thought it is gps-plotter.
Jan 27 11:43:06 <Enrico_Menotti> VERY good news: phone calls with N900 + BMW via bluetooth WORK.
Jan 27 11:43:12 <Enrico_Menotti> More details.
Jan 27 11:43:27 <Enrico_Menotti> My car is a BMW 318d, F30, 2012.
Jan 27 11:44:41 <Enrico_Menotti> As I reported, with the stock bluetooth on Maemo (CSSU applied), I was able to pair (not at first try, but anyway) and do phone calls, but at hanging up also the iDrive system on the car (or better its multimedia part) hang, and eventually rebooted.
Jan 27 11:45:00 <Enrico_Menotti> This is reported as an issue also with BMW + other phones over the net.
Jan 27 11:45:31 <Enrico_Menotti> I read one post of a man who succeeded in resolving the issue with a software update on the car, done at a BMW dealer.
Jan 27 11:45:40 <Enrico_Menotti> So I started looking for updates.
Jan 27 11:46:11 <Enrico_Menotti> The sw version on my car is 008.009.010, both for multimedia (ME-) and telephone (TE-) systems.
Jan 27 11:47:10 <Enrico_Menotti> On bmw.com there is a page for software updates. You have to insert all 17 figures of the VIN number, found on a plate on the passenger side, visible with door open.
Jan 27 11:47:20 <Enrico_Menotti> However, for my car there are no updates reported.
Jan 27 11:47:59 <Enrico_Menotti> But I found updates available also at bmw.co.uk. There, you just need the last 7 digits of the VIN, and for my car there are 3 versions of the ME- and TE- available.
Jan 27 11:48:24 <Enrico_Menotti> However, they all are older than the one I have already (!), so the vehicle doesn't accept them.
Jan 27 11:49:33 <Enrico_Menotti> From the system log on the N900, I found that at the end of the call the N900 receives 4 AT- commands, one of which is related to phone book transfer, which is not available on stock Maemo.
Jan 27 11:49:59 <Enrico_Menotti> So I looked for this topic, and found https://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PBAP.
Jan 27 11:50:35 <Enrico_Menotti> There is a note "There is a TODO to write support for AT commands but don't hold your breath." under "Disclaimer", so I was rather pessimistic.
Jan 27 11:51:20 <Enrico_Menotti> However, as a last try I installed the packages. In detail, I did all listed under "Manual installation".
Jan 27 11:51:26 <Enrico_Menotti> After that, rebooted the N900.
Jan 27 11:51:52 <Enrico_Menotti> The car said it was syncing the phone book, which however I have empty.
Jan 27 11:52:12 <Enrico_Menotti> I let it do, and tried a call. Voilà, hangs up correctly.
Jan 27 11:54:05 <Enrico_Menotti> Well, the phone book was keeping on syncing, so I tried to remove the phone from the car and the car from the phone, and re-pair. Ended up in a trouble (unable to remove the phone from the car, nor re-pair it), but after about half an hour of trials, including pairing, unpairing and rebooting both devices, I succeeded in pairing and connecting the devices.
Jan 27 11:54:17 <Enrico_Menotti> And phone calls work and hang up correctly, it seems.
Jan 27 11:54:30 <Enrico_Menotti> I'll test further and report any further issues.
Jan 27 11:54:39 <Enrico_Menotti> sicelo freemangordon ^^^
Jan 27 13:36:58 <sicelo> :-)
Jan 27 14:48:06 <DocScrutinizer05> I can't help but: I told ya - leste _nit_ developing "bottom-up" from existing stuff and on N900 as primary platform, only _then_ porting stuff to other platforms, resulted in genuine maemo aka CSSU finally reached complete zombie state
Jan 27 14:48:27 <DocScrutinizer05> s/_nit_/_not_/
Jan 27 14:48:27 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: I can't help but: I told ya - leste _not_ developing "bottom-up" from existing stuff and on N900 as primary platform, only _then_ porting stuff to other platforms, resulted in genuine maemo aka CSSU finally reached complete zombie state
Jan 27 14:50:57 <DocScrutinizer05> not like we never seen this effect before. Meego anybody?
Jan 27 14:52:41 <DocScrutinizer05> refer Carsten Munk "Dr Strnagelove or how I learned to love meego" OWTTE
Jan 27 14:53:11 <KotCzarny> more like 'we have only so many devs and they are already overworked'
Jan 27 14:59:11 <DocScrutinizer05> that's a fallacy
Jan 27 15:00:15 <DocScrutinizer05> doing a thing right doesn't mean it takes more time to do it
Jan 27 15:01:54 <KotCzarny> but often does, because doing something right breaks compatibility with already established product
Jan 27 15:02:12 <KotCzarny> which also means good os, few apps 
Jan 27 15:02:26 <KotCzarny> so choices, choices
Jan 27 15:02:36 <DocScrutinizer05> when you care about your code being portable then it's irrelevant when you develop on N900 as fist platform and only then port it to a new platform
Jan 27 15:03:26 <DocScrutinizer05> when you do it right from beginning, porting is a nobrainer
Jan 27 15:03:54 <DocScrutinizer05> literally a flip of a compiler option
Jan 27 15:05:47 <DocScrutinizer05> with an approach of "let's take care about portability later, now I want it to work on this particular platform first" you end with a pile of shards in the end and have to start anew for your second platform
Jan 27 15:09:51 <DocScrutinizer05> in my book "breaks compatibility" is a synonym for doing it wrong, not right
Jan 27 15:12:18 <KotCzarny> technologies/apis change
Jan 27 15:13:54 <DocScrutinizer05> evebn the change from 32 to 64 bit in linux didn't breeak compatibility
Jan 27 15:14:14 <DocScrutinizer05> if you can't think of a way to keep stuff compatible, try harder
Jan 27 15:14:59 <KotCzarny> i think you should define 'compatibility', because definitely 64bit binaries dont run on 32bit
Jan 27 15:19:58 <DocScrutinizer05> eh? compatibility is supposed to work the other way around
Jan 27 15:20:14 <DocScrutinizer05> and 32bit binaries work on a 64bit system
Jan 27 15:21:04 <DocScrutinizer05> 64bit apps should compile for 32bit just fine unless you messed up sth
Jan 27 15:37:12 <DocScrutinizer05> when you want to change an API, you create the new API and same time a compatibility layer that allows 'old' apps to deal with their 'old' (though now virtual) API. E.G it's no rocket science to run apps in their own namespace with a virtual /proc, /dev and /sys converting the old calls to the new real API
Jan 27 15:41:23 <DocScrutinizer05> heck, you even can run windows binaries under linux, and that's quite a bit more demanding regarding compatibility than changing a linux kernel version or whatever
Jan 27 15:42:26 <DocScrutinizer05> thus you need an "emulator" for that, though wine isn't really an emulator
Jan 27 15:43:35 <DocScrutinizer05> you still can run win95 apps under win10 I guess. No? That's obviously not linux but the problem is exactly the same
Jan 27 16:02:00 <sixwheeledbeast> Different goals. Leste is heading for mainline.
Jan 27 17:44:52 <DocScrutinizer05> and mainline is not about cross-platform?
Jan 27 17:46:16 <DocScrutinizer05> I anyway still hear the "this will help N900 as well!!!" from stskeeps and all leste devs
Jan 27 17:46:47 <DocScrutinizer05> suuuuure
Jan 27 17:47:45 <DocScrutinizer05> it helps N900 to die
Jan 27 17:48:25 <KotCzarny> n900 will never die
Jan 27 17:48:34 <KotCzarny> because with mainline/leste, you can run without battery
Jan 27 17:49:06 * DocScrutinizer05 makes KotCzarny run without battery, and very very fast too
Jan 27 17:49:39 * KotCzarny coughs a furball in general doc's direction
Jan 27 17:52:41 <GeneralDoc> ~attack KotCzarny
Jan 27 17:52:42 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing KotCzarny
Jan 27 17:55:40 <KotCzarny> ~lick DocScrutinizer05
Jan 27 17:55:40 * infobot licks DocScrutinizer05 *SHLUUURRRRPPP*
Jan 28 00:14:44 <Enrico_Menotti> sicelo Update about N900 + BMW via bluetooth. I can confirm that now phone calls work fine. However, no phone book. From the logs, the N900 is still complaining it does not understand AT commands.
Jan 28 00:17:21 <Enrico_Menotti> It's funny when you install a package (more than one here) thought for a specific functionality (Bluetooth PBAP here) and you don't get that functionality, but you solve another problem.
Jan 28 00:18:10 <Enrico_Menotti> I wonder what actually solved the problem (BMW multimedia system hanging at phone call hang up).
Jan 28 00:19:45 <Enrico_Menotti> sunshavi May you get me in contact with luf?
Jan 28 00:56:30 <sunshavi> Enrico_Menotti: https://termbin.com/c0oz
Jan 28 00:56:31 <sunshavi>  
Jan 28 00:56:46 <sunshavi> just write to hime he has always reply to me
Jan 28 01:01:40 <Enrico_M_RX-51> sunshavi Noted, thanks.
Jan 28 02:23:27 <DocScrutinizer05> Enrico_M_RX-51: yes, N900 doesn't understand phonebook readout AT commands. Simply because all AT commands are fed through to modem directly AFAIK, and phonebook is in userland, not modem
Jan 28 02:24:02 <DocScrutinizer05> it's known that N900 doesn't support phonebook and a number of other features in this car BT profile
Jan 28 02:25:13 <DocScrutinizer05> PBAP yeah, that was it. PhoneBook Access Profile
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 28 02:59:57 2019