**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 19 02:59:57 2019 Feb 19 03:04:26 sicelo: really 2G-only? I was about to suggest to trys 3G-only since 3G has way less burst currents torturing battery Feb 19 04:18:03 I locked my device to 3g only, but it didn't help. Feb 19 04:19:37 does anyone have a solution for my backupmenu issue? Feb 19 04:23:21 would copying all the files over ssh from device to another device achieve the same thing as normal backup? Feb 19 04:26:15 I guess all the file could not be overwritten on a running system. Feb 19 04:26:20 files* Feb 19 04:27:16 ^^^ that Feb 19 04:27:34 I don't see why BM doesn't install Feb 19 04:28:53 get a clean PR1.3 or 4 flash of rootfs, then fix the repos, then one-click install BM Feb 19 04:31:27 Vajb: please copy (or take a picture) the detailed error messages of HAM Feb 19 04:31:38 and provide them Feb 19 04:51:25 DocScrutinizer05: backupmenu installs and my phone boots in the boot menu provided. I can chhose to boot to maemo kernel, bootmenu or power off. If I choose bootmenu, my phone tries to load something and reboots. Feb 19 04:53:18 if I try with my other phone it shows what it loads and backupmenu works as expected. While other phone just shows booting () and staring (). It is like it doesn't have info where to boot and what Feb 19 06:21:57 DocScrutinizer05: the problem is only on 3G, sadly. on 2G, it's rock stable - it has been connected for almost 2 days now Feb 19 06:31:36 interestingly i have my network set to 3g too Feb 19 06:31:41 maybe i should try 2g Feb 19 06:35:04 fwiw, my connection normally goes away on 3G, but my operator doesn't have 2G anymore. Feb 19 06:35:33 could it be some 3g feature that bugs the modem? Feb 19 06:35:56 goes away as in after 10 seconds or so of not sending things over the network, something seems to disconnect, so it won't be able to send things after that. Feb 19 06:36:09 but other cellular activity consistently wakes it back up. Feb 19 06:36:42 I sometimes send an SMS to myself to wake it up again. Feb 19 06:37:02 or if I'm reading through some stuff on IRC, I'll normally hold backspace to make sure I'm constantly sending something. Feb 19 06:37:42 or I'll just start pinging 8.8.8.8 in another window, but I try to avoid that since I sometimes forget until it's wasted a bunch of battery energy pinging. Feb 19 06:38:05 it seems to also correlate with the "3.5" icon. Feb 19 06:38:35 in general, 3.5 = internet works, 3 = internet is stuck Feb 19 06:38:39 i very rarely use data connectivity, so must be something else Feb 19 06:39:07 some 'bad packet/command -> modem hung' Feb 19 06:39:26 or just power surge as doc suggests Feb 19 06:39:47 gonna stay on 2g for a week and see if i get any hung cellular Feb 19 06:40:33 funny as it is im on 2.5g even without data enabled Feb 19 06:47:55 never seen 2.5g Feb 19 06:48:07 2.5g is edge Feb 19 06:48:13 2g is gprs Feb 19 06:48:41 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G#Evolution Feb 19 06:48:58 erm or not Feb 19 06:49:04 Maxdamantus: as you may remember, i used to have that too, but it has gotten a bit better now. it's still there, but no longer as bad. tbh - it quite obvious the operator must share part of the blame, if not the most Feb 19 06:50:02 sicelo: hm, but it only seems to affect network. Feb 19 06:50:25 sicelo: any anything else will wake something up so that the network actually works. Feb 19 06:50:43 it is not power surge afaict - even when connected to charger it's there. plus, same battery setup has zero issues with the other operator Feb 19 06:50:53 Maxdamantus: yes. Feb 19 06:51:07 sicelo: so my presumption is that there's some sort of ping or something missing from maemo to make sure that the modem is usable when you happen to be using the network. Feb 19 06:51:15 i wonder if old battery could affect it even on charger Feb 19 06:51:35 Maxdamantus: exactly that. i wonder what you will find if you were to try a different operator :) Feb 19 06:52:06 KotCzarny: and how does that premise explain the fact tha there are zero problems on 3G with the other operator? Feb 19 06:53:27 different part of modem pressed by battery bulge? Feb 19 06:53:52 when on different operator? :) Feb 19 06:53:53 but it could be a compund effect Feb 19 06:54:08 we all could observe different bugs combo Feb 19 06:54:31 fwiw, no bulge on battery - in fact, it is not old. bme-replacement sees 1293mAh Feb 19 06:54:50 mine sees ~1230, yet its not as flat as new Feb 19 06:55:15 right Feb 19 06:58:18 sicelo: something that I think would be useful to try would be just using ofono instead of csd. Feb 19 07:01:08 yes, that's an idea. i don't know to to do that one fremantle though. i've wanted to setup uboot on this device to check ofono on Leste. i should do that sometime. it's just - other operator works well, so i just switched ... it's only in the last week that i used the 'troublesome' one again, but will switch back today (when my data package is depleted) Feb 19 07:01:12 also, when this happens to me, I get these messages: https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/a5c4ecb48dc5d61665b5c09b042db892 Feb 19 07:01:35 Feb 19 19:52:32 orcus daemon.notice cellular: csd[858]: ISI_SMS .126047> ind_reg_status(): Net registration (ind) status:1 rc:0 Feb 19 07:01:38 Feb 19 19:52:32 orcus daemon.notice cellular: csd[858]: ISI_SMS .126352> set_timeout(): Timeout 3547 s event type:-1 Feb 19 07:01:56 then the messages after that are me sending an SMS to myself. Feb 19 07:02:07 and when I did that, the pings started working. Feb 19 07:02:37 i get those too Feb 19 07:02:49 Wonder if there's some sort of cellular ping functionality that I can make csd perform. Feb 19 07:03:16 because if sending an SMS wakes it up, surely there'll be other things the modem can do to wake it up. Feb 19 07:04:26 maxd, ping -s8 8.8.8.8 ;) Feb 19 07:04:59 KotCzarny: yes, that would obviously help, but it also wastes the battery. Feb 19 07:05:12 Maxdamantus: although you should find that those messages are always there, even if your connection was working fine Feb 19 07:05:33 maxd: but sending sms switches modem from data to gsm mode Feb 19 07:05:44 that could be a hint? Feb 19 07:06:18 and switching back to data relogins modem on network? Feb 19 07:06:59 KotCzarny: maybe. Feb 19 07:09:37 sicelo: gonna leave it pinging for a while and will see if I get those messages still. Feb 19 08:01:52 so maybe switch it to 2g by: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.phone.net /com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net.set_selected_radio_access_technology byte:1 Feb 19 08:02:07 and to 3g by: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.phone.net /com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net.set_selected_radio_access_technology byte:2 Feb 19 09:04:50 Been pinging for almost 2 hours, only message from csd is "isiclient_sms_timeout(): Request TIMEOUT" (occurred once) Feb 19 09:05:25 and shortly after stopping, I get those other messages again. Feb 19 09:06:09 first one being "ind_req_status(): Net registration (ind) status:1 rc:0" Feb 19 09:07:28 s/req/reg/ Feb 19 09:07:28 Maxdamantus meant: first one being "ind_reg_status(): Net registration (ind) status:1 rc:0" Feb 19 09:07:45 might be tower breaking some standard Feb 19 09:08:09 and dropping idle clients forcibly Feb 19 09:08:58 So what do other phones do about it? Feb 19 09:09:25 they are always active :) Feb 19 09:09:55 android phones are really noisy on the net. they almost never 'rest' Feb 19 09:10:10 so they never have a problem Feb 19 09:11:06 it's just that my usb ports are all dead, i would test with a 3G modem on my laptop - i won't be surprised if i get same problem Feb 19 09:12:22 i will test on my BBB or CHIP Feb 19 09:16:04 maxd: running ping keeps time slots allocated for your device Feb 19 09:16:18 that's why it appears to work Feb 19 09:16:51 i recall i did experience it with a modem in the earlier days, but, to be fair, the modem itself seems to be rubbish. i can get a better huawei/zte Feb 19 09:17:18 KotCzarny: but I can claim one of these slots immediately by getting the modem to reconnect? Feb 19 09:17:31 KotCzarny: great, that's what I suspect it should be doing anyvay. Feb 19 09:17:39 yes, Feb 19 09:17:45 maxd, but it would deactivate after an idle period (1-2s) Feb 19 09:17:56 or some more Feb 19 09:18:08 It normally takes around 10 seconds. Feb 19 09:18:23 I could probably get a precise timing. Feb 19 09:20:17 Will see what csd looks like in strace soon. Feb 19 10:21:45 unrelated: does anyone know how to refer to individual phone plugs of the sort that you'd likely find in commercial cables? Feb 19 10:21:55 rj11 ? Feb 19 10:22:17 So not the ones with the large tabs for soldering onto and the male thread for a cover. Feb 19 10:22:23 No, phone plug. Feb 19 10:22:30 what's a phone plug then Feb 19 10:22:47 Like what goes into the audio jack on an N900 Feb 19 10:23:06 but just TRS or TS, not TRRS Feb 19 10:23:08 mini-jack and cinch ? Feb 19 10:23:26 3.5" mini-jack ? Feb 19 10:23:29 2.5mm phone plug .. that's what the plug itself is called. Feb 19 10:23:48 you mean the one used on nokia n-gage Feb 19 10:23:49 :) Feb 19 10:23:54 but whenever you buy such plugs from an electronics shop, you get them with a male thread and large tabs Feb 19 10:24:17 I just mean normal audio plugs. Feb 19 10:24:30 the ones on the end of headphones Feb 19 10:25:12 just wondering about where to get ones where the part you solder the wires onto is lower-profile. Feb 19 10:25:44 which is what you get if you just break apart some commercial cable, but that seems like a waste Feb 19 10:26:29 and I'd quite like some 1.5mm mono plugs where I can make a low-profile wire attachment. Feb 19 10:34:53 Maxdamantus The best plugs you may find around are manufactured by Switchcraft. Feb 19 10:37:09 http://www.switchcraft.com/Category.aspx?Parent=3 Feb 19 10:38:55 http://www.switchcraft.com/Drawings/35hd_series_cd.pdf Feb 19 10:39:19 Probably those are not "Low profile" as you mean. Feb 19 10:48:56 Enrico_Menotti: I intend to just put epoxy over the solder joints, so don't need an entire case thing. Feb 19 10:49:19 (and the case thing is why there's a thread on it wasting space) Feb 19 10:49:24 im sad most producers stick to standards Feb 19 10:49:33 which tell how much space to leave etc Feb 19 10:49:41 prohibiting really low-profile plugs Feb 19 10:53:02 Here's what I mean by low-profile: https://maxdamantus.eu.org/lppp.jpg Feb 19 10:53:52 the one on the left is just taken from a commercial plug (they're usually encased in some sort of plastic), while the one on the right is what you'd get from an electronics shop (with a screw-on case above) Feb 19 10:54:21 (I've also encased the one on the left in epoxy) Feb 19 10:54:48 but the plug on the left seems to be pretty much the same in all commercial cables. Feb 19 10:55:44 where you see the three conductors as shells of different diameter, with a single piece of plastic (black) separating them. Feb 19 10:56:05 and some holes in the plastic for access to the conductors Feb 19 10:57:19 note: that's a 2.5mm plug, so the sort that fits into an N900 Feb 19 10:59:43 The sort on the left seems a lot better-quality than the one on the right, possibly because the sleeve and the part to the top of it are just the same piece of metal. Feb 19 11:00:02 Maxdamantus https://www.mouser.it/datasheet/2/670/sp-2533-01-1374779.pdf Feb 19 11:00:50 GSM/UMTS antenna on my N900 is worn - not black, but with a patch of yellow and green. Does it decrease quality of 3G signal for me, in Australia? Or does N900 have another 3G antenna hidden away somewhere? Feb 19 11:01:18 the one on the right has the thread and the sleeve being two different pieces of metal, and in my experience, you can often just rotate them such that you lose conductance between at least one of the tabs, before even applying any heat. Feb 19 11:02:30 GSM is 2G, and 2G isn't available in Australia. UMTS is a subspecies of 3G. Question is, does 3G in Australia on Nokia N900 work on UMTS, or on something else, with some other internal antenna? Feb 19 11:03:56 Enrico_Menotti: thanks, I think that might have helped. Feb 19 11:05:00 Maxdamantus Is that one what you're looking for? Feb 19 11:05:04 (More or less?) Feb 19 11:05:45 Enrico_Menotti: pretty much. I was at least able to use the part number to find a site that sells those sorts of plugs. Feb 19 11:05:54 https://www.digikey.co.nz/products/en/connectors-interconnects/barrel-audio-connectors/434?pkeyword=&sv=0&pv29=1&pv575=6&pv1954=12&sf=0&FV=ffe001b2&quantity=&ColumnSort=0&page=1&pageSize=25 Feb 19 11:09:24 Maxdamantus Mouser sells them as well. The link I provided is for the data sheet on Mouser, but I passed through the page for buying. Feb 19 11:10:16 Probably better to just buy them from a local store like above. Feb 19 11:10:35 since they already supposedly have thousands in stock, so they're not wasting money shipping something like 10 at a time. Feb 19 11:10:58 (NZ is quite far from the rest of the world) Feb 19 11:11:10 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Vention-Aux-Cable-3-5mm-Jack-To-Jack-90-Degree-Right-Angle-Flat-Aux-Cord-For/32828129070.html Feb 19 11:11:14 this one seems quite low Feb 19 11:11:22 I usually buy electronics from Mouser, in my opinion it's got the greatest choice. Also quite cheap (the cheapest probably). You only should buy at least some 50 dollars in order to get free delivery. Feb 19 11:12:04 Here in Italy, when I can't spend at least 50 euros, I buy from RS online, whose shipping fees are the lowest for tiny purchases. Feb 19 11:12:55 I don't really need a huge amount .. just gradually trying to reach my goal of having the ultimate earphone cable. Feb 19 11:13:29 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RAXFLY-3-5mm-AUX-Cable-For-Car-Gold-Plated-90-Degree-Right-Angle-Flat-Jack-For/32839427330.html Feb 19 11:13:36 this one seem a 1mm smaller Feb 19 11:13:49 with a bonus of flat cable Feb 19 11:13:50 Honestly, I don't think any store has this kind of plugs in stock. These plugs are very specialized, it seems to me, so you can only find them from big sellers. Feb 19 11:14:17 although both are 3.5" Feb 19 11:14:19 hrm Feb 19 11:14:50 KotCzarny: I don't like the idea of having that cable attached pretty much directly to an apparently rigid piece of plastic/metal. Feb 19 11:15:24 maxd: why? you would be stressing soldered part otherwise Feb 19 11:15:51 KotCzarny: in my design above the solder joints are not stressed, since it's all under epoxy. Feb 19 11:16:13 KotCzarny: and there's heatshrink around the cable where it joins into the epoxy. Feb 19 11:16:33 (the epoxy adheres a lot better to heatshrink than to the cable) Feb 19 11:17:51 my guess, best bet would be cannibalizing and modding regular plug Feb 19 11:17:55 by cutting it short Feb 19 11:19:28 Yeah, that's what I've done. Feb 19 11:22:42 and as for "why?", I'm pretty sure the fault is never with the solder joint. Feb 19 11:23:15 the solder joints are usually encased in plastic anyway, similar to how they're encased in epoxy on my one. Feb 19 11:23:39 it's a matter of not having the cable directly up against a rigid piece of plastic. Feb 19 11:24:09 that's why the screw-on case in my picture has a flexible bit at the end where the cable comes out, and why the metal versions often have springs there. Feb 19 11:25:33 if the cable is directly up against something rigid, you'll end up bending the cable at sharp angles there, so you instead have some spring, or bit of bendy plastic, or heatshrink so that it tends to curve instead. Feb 19 11:27:14 also, don't like the exposed metal cases, since it provides a path to ground if I touch the case. Feb 19 11:27:22 (assuming I'm grounded) Feb 19 11:27:52 That's definitely noticable using my earphones. Feb 19 11:29:49 (and assuming I'm using them on my computer, rather than my phone, which is normally isolated from ground anyway when in use) Feb 19 13:24:46 >>but it would deactivate after an idle period<< yes, that's one of the reasons why 3G is power greedy. A single byte out *or in* keeps TX active for a BTS-defined period of several seconds Feb 19 13:36:05 >> KotCzarny: and how does that premise explain the fact tha there are zero problems on 3G with the other operator?<< different operator = different BTS location, signal strength, TX power level; different freq/band; different implementation of the eadio stack firmware Feb 19 21:03:35 sicelo: do you have deb package for telegram on n900? Feb 19 21:04:46 there is on tmo Feb 19 21:09:29 https://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1522324&postcount=196 Feb 19 21:09:43 i don't see the file though :-? Feb 19 21:09:52 https://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1501151&postcount=179 Feb 19 21:12:36 i have the tar.gz for 1.3.3 .. let me know where i can save it for you Feb 19 21:15:41 i am reading about it. Feb 19 21:17:46 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11747350/TelegramN900.tar.gz Feb 19 21:24:57 i have a dumb thinking Feb 19 21:25:10 sailfish have a layer or emulator for running apk's Feb 19 21:25:33 perhaps that layer could be ported to n900? or perhaps the processor is too weak for it Feb 19 21:26:05 that way we could have a proper telegram app :) Feb 19 23:02:25 sunshavi: You can already run Android applications on Maemo 5 but I never did it myself and I do not remember the specifics. Feb 19 23:03:30 What connector on the N900 is 2.5 mm? The audio/video connector is 3.5 mm. Feb 19 23:05:17 Are Windows XP and earlier in the same situation as Maemo 5 of not being able to access some Web sites due to lack of support for current version(s) of TLS? I could test on Windows XP myself if I was at my office but I am at home. Feb 19 23:40:43 brolin_empey: good to known. Perhaps someone remembers the specifics on this list Feb 20 00:04:53 Yeah, sorry, whenever I said 2.5 mm earlier I meant 3.5 mm and whenever I said 1.5 mm I meant 2.5 mm Feb 20 00:34:06 Maxdamantus: OK. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 20 02:59:57 2019