**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 25 02:59:57 2019
Feb 25 04:30:06 <brolin_empey> For me, the date command uses a 24-hour clock with AM/PM. 0_o
Feb 25 04:31:32 <brolin_empey> Are new BL-5J/BL-4J batteries still made?  I am assuming that they are still available on eBay and whatnot but are they all years old by now?
Feb 25 05:17:51 <Maxdamantus> brolin_empey: polarcells seem to still be made.
Feb 25 05:18:47 <Maxdamantus> Hm, says they're sold out atm
Feb 25 05:19:58 * Maxdamantus bought two last time, one's unused.
Feb 25 05:25:04 <Maxdamantus> or maybe they just don't use ebay anymore: http://www.wannsee-electronic.de/handyakkus/nokia/polarcell_hochleistungsakku_fuer_nokia_x1-00_ersetzt_originalakku__bl-5j_i2_2092_0.htm
Feb 25 05:26:37 <Maxdamantus> Ah, it is on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/PolarCell-Batteria-per-Nokia-C3-00-X6-00-5230-5800-XpressMusic-N900-5228-BL-5J/392245931311?hash=item5b53aded2f:g:tfUAAOSw8ihccNUB:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true
Feb 25 05:27:20 <Maxdamantus> (probably easier to navigate there, and know that they deliver to your country, if you don't know German)
Feb 25 05:27:43 <Maxdamantus> They delivered to NZ, so surely they will to Australia too.
Feb 25 08:00:12 <sixwheeledbeast> ~polarcell
Feb 25 08:00:13 <infobot> [polarcell] BL-5J Replacement - Wannasee Electronic on Ebay or http://www.wannsee-electronic.de/handyakkus/nokia/polarcell_hochleistungsakku_fuer_nokia_n900_ersetzt_originalakku__bl-5j_i2_2090_0.htm
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 25 10:59:24 2019
Feb 25 11:03:08 <Wikiwide> Under what circumstances is upgrading kernel likely to end up with a bricked device? Keep in mind that USB port is broken.
Feb 25 11:04:04 <Wikiwide> No, multiboot is not installed.
Feb 25 11:04:38 <unrest> if you have no way of altering the kernel line in the bootloader and if no safe kernel is still available
Feb 25 11:05:07 <unrest> idk how maemo handles kernel updates or whether it retains a "failsafe" kernel
Feb 25 11:06:05 <KotCzarny> if you dont have uboot installed, it's written directly to nand space
Feb 25 11:06:27 <Wikiwide> So, I should install uboot first?
Feb 25 11:06:30 <KotCzarny> so no, writing bad kernel will get you a brick, which requires usb to fix
Feb 25 11:06:42 <KotCzarny> ~uboot
Feb 25 11:06:42 <infobot> N900 uBoot is a siamese twin binary [uBoot+stockMaemoKernel] that resides in kernel NAND partition /dev/mtd3 aka "kernel". You can't uninstall it, rather you'll nuke it when you flash/install another kernel like stock maemo kernel or powerkernel. To start other than stock maemo kernel via uBoot, you have to provide the according kernel image files, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613
Feb 25 11:07:12 <KotCzarny> ~multiboot
Feb 25 11:07:12 <infobot> well, multiboot is http://maemo.org/packages/view/multiboot/, or **DEPRECATED*, see ~maemo-multiboot
Feb 25 11:08:03 <Wikiwide> If I already have kernel power 2.6.28.10 installed, is it safe to install uboot?
Feb 25 11:08:30 <Wikiwide> ~maemo-multiboot
Feb 25 11:08:30 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, maemo-multiboot is deprecated, and a horrible hack.  PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED
Feb 25 11:08:54 <KotCzarny> read the thread about uboot
Feb 25 11:09:14 <KotCzarny> since you have broken usb port it will be tricky to fix if you do something wrong
Feb 25 11:09:24 <Wikiwide> I remember it in connection with having one device that doesn't work because of combination of multiboot, kernel upgrade and broken USB port
Feb 25 11:09:39 <KotCzarny> forget about multiboot
Feb 25 11:12:02 <Wikiwide> Reading http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 
Feb 25 11:12:56 <Wikiwide> HAM is the safest, regarding dependency hell. But it will not protect against empty battery...
Feb 25 11:15:16 <Wikiwide> In HAM, kernel power 2.6.28.10 is the closest, but it is 53, not 52.
Feb 25 11:28:00 <Wikiwide> I don't get it. I can find http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel-power/kernel-power-bootimg_2.6.28-10power52_armel.deb , but I do not see anything like "u-boot-flasher for power kernel v52", yet
Feb 25 11:29:42 <KotCzarny> extras-devel. its not what you want.
Feb 25 11:30:44 <Wikiwide> No idea. I just want to get system into working, consistent state where date doesn't disagree with GUI about what the timezone is.
Feb 25 11:31:36 <KotCzarny> how is wrong timezone related to kernel in your case?
Feb 25 11:32:09 <Wikiwide> I know that current kernel is power v52, and ham has been nagging me for ages to upgrade to v53 or something. 
Feb 25 11:33:10 <KotCzarny> v53 here
Feb 25 11:33:28 <KotCzarny> if you dont have uboot/multiboot, then i guess upgrading to v53 should just work?
Feb 25 11:33:33 <Wikiwide> Wrong timezone might be coming from a disagreement between some libraries. I don't know. So I want to get ham's question out of the way and see that yes, with everything upgraded, date is still not consistent.
Feb 25 11:34:13 <Wikiwide> Should just work... At what voltage is it safe to upgrade without having nand flashing interrupted mid-way?
Feb 25 11:35:15 <KotCzarny> since you are charging your battery outside, just charge it fully?
Feb 25 11:35:57 <Wikiwide> Okay... Anything about free space on rootfs, homefs or MyDocs?
Feb 25 11:36:42 <sixwheeledbeast> if uboot is installed it should just work with kp53
Feb 25 11:37:06 <KotCzarny> swb: does order of installing uboot and kp53 matter?
Feb 25 11:37:07 <Wikiwide> I have available : 44MB on /, 63MB on /home, 38MB on MyDocs.
Feb 25 11:37:26 <sixwheeledbeast> I wouldn't expect so, but IDK
Feb 25 11:37:33 <Wikiwide> U-boot is not installed, at the moment. kp52 is installed.
Feb 25 11:38:21 <sixwheeledbeast> it's a separate package kernel-power-bootimg
Feb 25 11:38:53 <sixwheeledbeast> via HAM it would be "U-Boot with kernel 2.6.28-omap1 and Linux kernel for power user (boot image for U-Boot)"
Feb 25 11:40:33 <Wikiwide> I have kernel-power               1:2.6.28-10power52 , flasher and modules too. I don't have kernel-power-bootimg installed. HAM has U-Boot with kpv53.
Feb 25 11:43:00 <sixwheeledbeast> As for battery I have no idea, it's not easy to stay either because each battery is in a different state. Normally full to maybe half is recommended
Feb 25 11:43:35 <sixwheeledbeast> For any serious update/upgrade
Feb 25 11:44:17 <Wikiwide> So, if I install u-boot-flasher and kernel-power-bootimg v52, it should work?
Feb 25 11:45:17 <Wikiwide> Nay, apt-get disagrees.
Feb 25 11:48:53 <Wikiwide> So, get full battery and just upgrade everything. 
Feb 25 11:52:52 <Maxdamantus> Do you have a second device to experiment with?
Feb 25 11:53:14 <Maxdamantus> so you don't just brick your only one by doing something you don't quite understand?
Feb 25 11:53:51 <Maxdamantus> (I wouldn't claim to understand it either; I've only ever flashed over USB, not from the device)
Feb 25 11:53:57 <Wikiwide> Not sure. I might have one device with working USB port somewhere...
Feb 25 11:54:34 <Wikiwide> I am not a fan of flashing in general.
Feb 25 11:54:57 <Maxdamantus> (though I know how my boot sequence works, and it involves having a u-boot that looks first on the SD card, so I can always recover using that if my USB stops working)
Feb 25 11:55:20 <Maxdamantus> Yeah, that's why you just install u-boot once and don't touch it again.
Feb 25 11:55:41 <Wikiwide> Why cannot a device have only memory cards, instead of solder-on memory chips?
Feb 25 11:55:46 <Maxdamantus> since u-boot should then look on SD/eMMC for configuration.
Feb 25 11:55:59 <sixwheeledbeast> speed
Feb 25 11:56:03 <KotCzarny> price
Feb 25 11:56:40 <Wikiwide> I have no memory card, yet. And my eMMC doesn't have much space on it...
Feb 25 11:56:56 <Wikiwide> Speed is a valid argument. Price isn't. 
Feb 25 11:57:13 <KotCzarny> it is when you cut costs
Feb 25 11:57:29 <KotCzarny> (from manufacturer side i guess)
Feb 25 11:57:41 <KotCzarny> also in support costs/time
Feb 25 11:57:45 <Wikiwide> I guess...
Feb 25 11:57:49 <KotCzarny> when people start buying cheapest sh*t sdcards
Feb 25 11:57:55 <KotCzarny> and they die after few weeks
Feb 25 11:58:11 <sixwheeledbeast> reliability ^
Feb 25 11:58:13 <Wikiwide> But support costs would have been minimised by using memory card for booting 
Feb 25 11:59:04 <sixwheeledbeast> Plus it wasn't a common idea until RPi
Feb 25 11:59:22 <KotCzarny> swb: many allwinner tablets used sdcard for rootfs
Feb 25 11:59:28 <KotCzarny> in the A10 era
Feb 25 11:59:38 <Wikiwide> Quality... That's tricky. Don't factories have quality control these days?
Feb 25 11:59:50 <KotCzarny> but those were most often nonames, with no support from vendor at all
Feb 25 12:00:07 <KotCzarny> wikiwide: quality control nowadays is controlled by profits
Feb 25 12:00:17 <KotCzarny> and you dont get profits if users dont buy more
Feb 25 12:00:26 <KotCzarny> ie. cars breaking just after 3-4 years
Feb 25 12:00:28 <sixwheeledbeast> ^ QC will have tolerance
Feb 25 12:00:55 <KotCzarny> so basically its 'push it out, sell them more'
Feb 25 12:01:42 <sixwheeledbeast> Certainly in a consumer market it is.
Feb 25 12:03:23 <Maxdamantus> I imagine there shouldn't be an inherent reason why it should be faster.
Feb 25 12:03:32 <sixwheeledbeast> I have just replaced some capacitors that where clearly fitted due to price.
Feb 25 12:03:54 <Maxdamantus> If the interface used by the eMMC chip is better, why not just sell cards with that chip?
Feb 25 12:04:05 <sixwheeledbeast> To anyone else the device was throw away it's done 6 years
Feb 25 12:04:17 <KotCzarny> price/size
Feb 25 12:04:44 <KotCzarny> even seen emmc on a subcard with pins?
Feb 25 12:04:44 <KotCzarny> they are bulky
Feb 25 12:05:00 <Maxdamantus> as in a NAND chip?
Feb 25 12:05:10 <KotCzarny> as in emmc expansion card
Feb 25 12:05:11 <Maxdamantus> I thought the eMMC chip was already kind of encapsulated.
Feb 25 12:05:12 <sixwheeledbeast> Swapped Decon for Jamicon, yer not the best replacements but there are other components that will likely fail first.
Feb 25 12:05:32 <KotCzarny> Maxdamantus: but you still have to connect to the system somehow
Feb 25 12:05:44 <KotCzarny> and if you want faster interface, it needs more lines
Feb 25 12:06:23 <KotCzarny> https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=209
Feb 25 12:06:26 <KotCzarny> an example
Feb 25 12:16:01 <DocScrutinizer05> folks, this looks not all bad: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator#/
Feb 25 12:16:45 <DocScrutinizer05> though the SoC... well nowadays you have to be happy if your SoC *allows* multiboot
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 26 02:59:57 2019