**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 13 02:59:57 2019
Apr 13 12:09:38 <Wikiwide> Time synchronisation is still an issue. The tiny circular battery is literally rusty, the change of the main battery results in "Set the time and date" wizard, half of the reboots. The cellular operator is off by three or four minutes, and often tells me that it's the first of January 2000 (which doesn't mesh well with my Calendar of appointments). GPS Data is off by exactly half an hour (time zone?). "Sync clock now" is a disastrous
Apr 13 12:09:40 <Wikiwide>  widget, being off by half an hour, exactly like GPS Data?
Apr 13 12:10:29 <Wikiwide> Sydney, GMT+10: is it 21:40 or 22:10?
Apr 13 12:11:59 <Maxdamantus> 22:10
Apr 13 12:12:09 <Maxdamantus> Sat Apr 13 02:12:09 GMT 2019
Apr 13 12:12:15 <Maxdamantus> er
Apr 13 12:12:34 <Wikiwide> https://www.timeanddate.com/ says 22:10. And yet GPS Data and pool.ntp.org say 21:40?
Apr 13 12:13:19 <Maxdamantus> GPS data and NTP are independent of timezone
Apr 13 12:14:12 <Maxdamantus> anyway, personally, I just run ntpd from my debian root rather than whatever's in maemo.
Apr 13 12:14:14 <Wikiwide> Hmm, could it by any chance correlate with cellular provider's claimed timezone of Adelaide?
Apr 13 12:15:29 <Maxdamantus> What timezone does `date` indicate you're using?
Apr 13 12:16:36 <Wikiwide> And could somebody please tell Calendar to stop shifting my appointments around just because of timezone changes? Regardless of timezone currently set up on my phone, appointments are fixed in Sydney time, and should not move around at all.
Apr 13 12:17:03 <Wikiwide> Date indicates CST
Apr 13 12:17:29 <Wikiwide> What is CST?
Apr 13 12:17:56 <Maxdamantus> Central Standard Time, used in the US.
Apr 13 12:18:02 <Maxdamantus> UTC-6
Apr 13 12:18:52 <Maxdamantus> So what does it say the time is in CST?
Apr 13 12:19:00 <Wikiwide> Sounds weird. Because date matches GUI where hours and minutes are concerned. And GUI says Sydney, GST+10.
Apr 13 12:19:01 <Maxdamantus> Sat Apr 13 12:19:01 CST 2019
Apr 13 12:19:29 <Wikiwide> Sat Apr 13 22:18:23 CST 2019
Apr 13 12:19:59 <Maxdamantus> eh, nvm my date output, I think I'm using the TZ variable incorrectly.
Apr 13 12:20:22 <Maxdamantus> try `date --utc`
Apr 13 12:20:41 <Maxdamantus> Sat Apr 13 12:20:41 UTC 2019
Apr 13 12:20:56 <Maxdamantus> If your clock is set correctly, regardless of timezone, it should have that output.
Apr 13 12:21:03 <Wikiwide> I have changed /etc/timezone from Adelaide to Sydney. What should I restart to get date to see this?
Apr 13 12:21:20 <Maxdamantus> I imagine hildon-status-menu
Apr 13 12:21:55 <Wikiwide> No such thing as date --utc
Apr 13 12:22:40 <sixwheeledbeast> Date and Time Setting is where the timezones are set via ui
Apr 13 12:23:02 <sixwheeledbeast> automatically should use cell towers AFAIK
Apr 13 12:24:00 <Wikiwide> Well, cell towers are worse than malicious - they are unpredictable in their unreliability.
Apr 13 12:25:51 <sixwheeledbeast> My device says that Sydney is the same local time as Brizy which i don't believe is correct? this is using world clock function BTW
Apr 13 12:26:22 <Maxdamantus> Well, they're both on the East cost.
Apr 13 12:26:27 <Maxdamantus> s/E/e/
Apr 13 12:26:27 <infobot> Maxdamantus meant: Well, they're both on the east cost.
Apr 13 12:27:07 <Maxdamantus> looks like they should be the same atm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Australia-states-timezones.png
Apr 13 12:27:27 <sixwheeledbeast> Brizy ignores DST tho, whereas I believed Sydney do
Apr 13 12:27:30 <Maxdamantus> since I suspect DST has ended for Sydney.
Apr 13 12:27:41 <Maxdamantus> right, but DST should have ended by now, I imagine.
Apr 13 12:28:50 <Wikiwide> ACST is GMT+09:30 aka Adelaide. Question is, how do I get date to acknowledge that /etc/timezone is Sydney? 
Apr 13 12:32:01 <Wikiwide> World Clocks does say that GMT/UTC is 13:00. So, UTC is fine. But how do I get it to know that I am in Sydney, not Adelaide? 
Apr 13 12:32:13 <Maxdamantus> The `date` command should recognise it immediately, but given that you said "--utc" doesn't work, maybe your date command is not very good.
Apr 13 12:32:32 <sixwheeledbeast> UTC is currently 1232
Apr 13 12:32:44 <Maxdamantus> I'm using some "power" version of busybox, so maybe that's why it works for me.
Apr 13 12:34:30 <Wikiwide> Ah, yes. My head is going in circles, nearly dizzy.
Apr 13 12:35:39 <sixwheeledbeast> After playing about my device seems to think I am in Sydney and will not change, so no idea without rebooting
Apr 13 12:36:15 <Wikiwide> Alright. If I "Sync clock now", then I get UTC of 12:36
Apr 13 12:36:18 <Maxdamantus> sixwheeledbeast: what about `killall hildon-status-menu`?
Apr 13 12:36:31 <Wikiwide> But how do I tell my device that I am in Adelaide? 
Apr 13 12:36:52 <Maxdamantus> Wikiwide: presumably through the settings GUI.
Apr 13 12:37:11 <sixwheeledbeast> Time and Date disalbe automatic and select Adelaide
Apr 13 12:37:32 <sixwheeledbeast> it's not h-s-m that showing the wrong place
Apr 13 12:38:00 <Wikiwide> If I tell Time and Date that I am in Adelaide, then I get 21:37 :P 
Apr 13 12:38:03 <sixwheeledbeast> also killall isn't ideal for hildon as it don't come back up cleanly
Apr 13 12:38:39 <Wikiwide> Aka UTC+9, where it should be UTC+09:30. Some more global re-read of timezone is needed.
Apr 13 12:49:12 <sixwheeledbeast> Adelaide is GMT +9.30 in world clock for me
Apr 13 12:52:23 <Wikiwide> /etc/localtime is the one behind date! Not /etc/timezone . But even though date does show 22:52 AEST correctly, GUI still shows 22:22
Apr 13 12:53:30 <sixwheeledbeast> So to reset I went to Date and Time disabled auto, changed the time zone to the correct one "Save". Then went back in an set update automatic which fixed the time.
Apr 13 12:54:33 <sixwheeledbeast> Changing your timezone automatically moves the clock by the amount +/- GMT
Apr 13 12:59:48 <Wikiwide> When I go and set automatic, I get 22:58 (correct time) in GUI, but 23:28 EST in date and 13:28 in UTC
Apr 13 13:04:02 <Wikiwide> So, even with timezone and localtime both set to Sydney, I still see UTC at 13:32, date at 23:32 and GUI time at 23:02
Apr 13 13:04:34 <Wikiwide> Where Does GUI Time come from?
Apr 13 13:05:09 <Wikiwide> It's worse than time-turners. With time-turners you at least know when you are.
Apr 13 13:06:05 <sixwheeledbeast> utc is 1305 right now
Apr 13 13:07:01 <Wikiwide> Sync clock now brought UTC to 13:05, date to 23:05, but GUI Time is 22:35
Apr 13 13:09:00 <sixwheeledbeast> I would assume one is using ntp and the other cell tower info but IDK?
Apr 13 13:12:01 <Wikiwide> I do not use cell tower - automatic updates of date and time are off, due to the wrecking effects they have. But somewhere might be a remaining ruin that still remembers cellular suggestion of Adelaide. 
Apr 13 13:12:29 <Wikiwide> Sync clock now uses ntp, yes. It's a once-off, not regular updates.
Apr 13 13:13:00 <Wikiwide> I should sue cellular provider for that.
Apr 13 13:13:51 <sixwheeledbeast> cellnet-info from extras would show you what time your operator believes it is.
Apr 13 13:16:07 <sixwheeledbeast> GPS data would show GPS time, which has overflowed twice now since it was first implemented. 
Apr 13 13:17:04 <sixwheeledbeast> timezones are hard enough to implement without different systems having there own designs to store it....
Apr 13 21:35:23 <Wikiwide> Besides /etc/timezone (?) and /etc/localtime (date), there is /home/user/.clockd.conf . But replacing Adelaide with Sydney in it, and restarting clockd, didn't seem to change anything.
Apr 13 21:41:27 <Wikiwide> date and worldclock agree! Now, how do I smoothly restart hildon-status-menu?..
Apr 13 21:46:13 <Wikiwide> I don't like how osso-app-killer-rfs.sh proceeds, instead of complaining about being run not as root. 
Apr 13 21:48:46 <Wikiwide> I did killall hildon-status-menu, in the end.
Apr 13 21:55:17 <Maxdamantus> ime `killall hildon-status-menu` works fine
Apr 13 21:55:53 <Maxdamantus> just have to make sure not to do it multiple times close together, since I think the system will automatically reboot if it sees the same service dying frequently or something.
Apr 13 22:02:20 <Wikiwide> Works!!! I have to make sure to use "Sync clock now", from now on, instead of automatic update - cellular towers here are insane. 
Apr 13 22:53:57 <Wikiwide> It's... Exhausting. Looking for a ghost.
Apr 13 22:56:30 <Wikiwide> As in, trying to find telephone number of a person when it's not written down in Contacts.
Apr 14 00:11:21 <Wikiwide> What should I use to get public transport routing working? Mappero doesn't seem to work (SSL problem), transportnsw.info requires new SSL but doesn't work in QML-Browser, maps.google.come works in neither MicroB, QML-Browser, nor Opera.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Apr 14 02:59:57 2019