**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 29 03:02:49 2019
Oct 29 11:09:02 <Wikiwide> I have headache the size of Mariana Trench.
Oct 29 11:24:14 <brolin_empey> Oksana: That sounds like a megapain.
Oct 29 11:56:24 <Wikiwide> I have headache the size of Mariana Trench.
Oct 29 11:57:16 <Wikiwide> I just solved a problem by using "lsof | grep deleted" because df wasn't showing correctly that a file was moved from homefs to MyDocs.
Oct 29 11:58:48 <Wikiwide> But on my way, I had to uninstall pierogi, qtoctave, fettuccini, and other packages. At least, now I have 96MB free on homefs. 
Oct 29 11:59:17 <Wikiwide> It will not last long. Tracker and thumbnails take up lots of space. And so does fennec.
Oct 29 12:00:05 <Wikiwide> But at least, I have got some breathing space.
Oct 29 12:02:21 <Wikiwide> It will take a while for tracker to re-index everything...
Oct 29 12:03:12 <Wikiwide> At least, RC boat seems to work. Even if on/off button is troublesome to the extent of having to remove batteries from the boat in lieu of switching it off.
Oct 29 12:03:43 <Wikiwide> But it's not waterproof enough to survive underwater adventures. 
Oct 29 12:04:45 <Wikiwide> I wish Fxtec Pro would be shipped already. Librem is depressingly bankrupt - and I haven't even pre-ordered it, and I am already depressed.
Oct 29 12:06:20 <brolin_empey> Purism is bankrupt?
Oct 29 12:06:33 <Wikiwide> At least, Dragonbox Pyra seems to be safe from dire financial straits. I hope I shall not call grief onto them by pointing out that so far, they are about the only reliable company amidst modern PDA designers.
Oct 29 12:06:51 <Wikiwide> brolin_empey: Internet says so.
Oct 29 12:07:33 <Wikiwide> They have only a handful of prototypes? They haven't delivered devices despite promises? They haven't passed cellular certification?
Oct 29 12:08:03 <Wikiwide> Their video do not show actual calls being made? Their camera and bluetooth aren't working? 
Oct 29 12:08:09 <brolin_empey> I think that rah was working for Purism?
Oct 29 12:12:59 <Wikiwide> No idea. I am just repeating rumours I have seen on the web about Librem
Oct 29 12:13:35 <Wikiwide> And after failure of Saygus (empty promises, Smaug), Suncorp (bank in Japan, deceptive pyramid of investment),
Oct 29 12:14:33 <Wikiwide> Neo900 (the great part is, they are open about it, and have released all schematics)...
Oct 29 12:15:15 <Wikiwide> I am impatient for Pyra and Fxtec Pro1 to restore my faith in the world.
Oct 29 12:17:15 <Wikiwide> I wouldn't want to see a validation of my suspicion that world has lost skills to make anything valuable. 
Oct 29 12:19:46 <Wikiwide> Part of problem is, certification seems to be a significant stumbling block. Saygus tried to pass it, had to adjust antenna, went quiet. Librem hasn't passed certification at all. 
Oct 29 12:19:49 <Wikiwide> Has Fxtec Pro passed the certification yet? What about Pyra?
Oct 29 12:21:23 <Wikiwide> Tracker is indexing. Halfway through MyDocs.
Oct 29 12:21:42 <Wikiwide> /me is whining, a lot
Oct 29 12:21:46 <KotCzarny> i will never understand people using any trackerd like solution
Oct 29 12:21:52 <KotCzarny> switch to oscp and be free!
Oct 29 12:21:53 <KotCzarny> :)
Oct 29 12:22:23 <brolin_empey> Fxtec is in the UK.  At least for the USA, I think you can see what has been submitted to or passed by (?) the FCC on the Internet so maybe it is the same in the UK?
Oct 29 12:23:04 <Wikiwide> oscp is directory based, right?
Oct 29 12:23:17 <KotCzarny> yes, but also knows about .m3u
Oct 29 12:23:29 <KotCzarny> so you can prepare your mood/genre lists yourself
Oct 29 12:23:53 <KotCzarny> with a single iteration of 'find ... >list.m3u' 
Oct 29 12:24:10 <Wikiwide> How do you detect music's artists, genres, and all the other metadata?
Oct 29 12:24:15 <KotCzarny> on load
Oct 29 12:24:32 <KotCzarny> and i assume user already categorized his files somehow
Oct 29 12:25:03 <brolin_empey> Or her files in this case.
Oct 29 12:25:14 <Wikiwide> So, on each oscp load, oscp grasps hundreds of files and franticlly tries to process them?
Oct 29 12:25:20 <KotCzarny> my media structure is genre/artist/album/files
Oct 29 12:25:23 <KotCzarny> nope
Oct 29 12:25:30 <KotCzarny> it stores last loaded playlist
Oct 29 12:25:38 <KotCzarny> and doing ls is cheap on computers
Oct 29 12:25:59 <KotCzarny> no processing on playlist load/start
Oct 29 12:27:21 <Wikiwide> Huh, that's a neat trick... But what if you want to find music of 1980s, any genre, any artist, any album?
Oct 29 12:27:44 <KotCzarny> you can prepare your custom .m3u playlist
Oct 29 12:27:52 <KotCzarny> with some simple script
Oct 29 12:28:10 <Wikiwide> You basically do trackerd's work manually, and encode the information in fs.
Oct 29 12:28:14 <KotCzarny> nope
Oct 29 12:28:18 <KotCzarny> i dont
Oct 29 12:28:25 <KotCzarny> because i dont do that
Oct 29 12:28:31 <KotCzarny> but it's a possibility
Oct 29 12:28:46 <KotCzarny> when i want to play some artist, i navigate to proper dir and just play
Oct 29 12:29:20 <Wikiwide> You do. Encode not as cipher, but as "let's change filename/filepath to include all the metadata required".
Oct 29 12:29:48 <KotCzarny> nope, more like 'i'll put that album where it should be'
Oct 29 12:30:12 <KotCzarny> and it's one time work when i add new music
Oct 29 12:30:31 <KotCzarny> contrary to what trackerd does now on you
Oct 29 12:31:03 <Wikiwide> It could even be possible to make a software to switch between trackerd way of storage and oscp way of storage. Only, manually is more reliable.
Oct 29 12:32:02 <KotCzarny> trackerd can play more tricks, but it's not worth it IMO
Oct 29 12:53:34 <brolin_empey> Oksana: Wikipedia seems to not say anything suggesting that Purism is bankrupt.  Same with the official Purism Web site.  Have you seen https://puri.sm/posts/first-librem-5-smartphones-are-shipping/ ?
Oct 29 12:57:24 <brolin_empey> Hmm, hurrian is not here?
Oct 29 12:57:32 <brolin_empey> ~seen hurrian
Oct 29 12:57:34 <infobot> hurrian <~hurrian@unaffiliated/rikanee> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 408d 4h 22m 56s ago, saying: 'yeah, LGA775 has Nvidia chipsets, but holy hell they were buggy'.
Oct 29 12:59:46 <brolin_empey> Yikes, was that already over a year ago?  Tempus fugit.
Oct 29 13:02:40 <brolin_empey> What happened to him (her?)?  Has he really been gone for over a year?  Apparently no user named hurrian is currently online on freenode but maybe he has been here while infobot was gone?
Oct 29 13:06:46 <brolin_empey> ~seen rikanee
Oct 29 13:06:47 <infobot> brolin_empey: i haven't seen 'rikanee'
Oct 29 13:13:54 <brolin_empey> ~seen god
Oct 29 13:13:55 <infobot> god <~god@184.90.114.149> was last seen on IRC in channel #devuan, 530d 17h 37m 38s ago, saying: 'Thanks'.
Oct 29 13:14:18 <brolin_empey> ~seen brolin_empey
Oct 29 13:14:18 <infobot> brolin_empey is currently on #neo900 #maemo. Has said a total of 24 messages. Is idling for 0s, last said: '~seen brolin_empey'.
Oct 29 13:14:46 <brolin_empey> ~seen infobot
Oct 29 13:14:46 <infobot> infobot is currently on #webos-internals (1d 20h 57m 41s) #nslu2-linux (1d 20h 57m 41s) ##pxe (1d 20h 57m 41s) #webos-watercooler (1d 20h 57m 41s) #devuan (1d 20h 57m 41s) ##lds (1d 20h 57m 41s) #handhelds (1d 20h 57m 41s) #fredlug (1d 20h 57m 41s) #handhelds-familiar (1d 20h 57m 41s) ##leaguesunited (1d 20h 57m 41s) #metano_linux (1d 20h 57m 41s) #n9 (
Oct 29 13:18:29 <rah> brolin_empey: yes, I do work for Purism
Oct 29 13:18:42 <rah> please note that many people on the Internet talk utter bollocks
Oct 29 13:19:04 <rah> please take this in reference to Purism and for life in general
Oct 29 13:21:59 <brolin_empey> Anyway, I wanted to tell hurrian that apparently 16 GiB of DDR4 SDRAM DIMMs (2× 8-GiB) now sells new for as little as 90 CAD but then I guess I would still have to spend hundreds of CAD to buy a new motherboard and CPU that uses DDR4 SDRAM instead of using the LGA775 + DDR2 SDRAM motherboards I already have.
Oct 29 13:24:27 <brolin_empey> rah: Yes, I realise that (talking bollocks).
Oct 29 13:29:55 <brolin_empey> Actually, hurrian was suggesting that I buy used DDR3 SDRAM DIMMs so I guess the price of DDR4 SDRAM is not relevant in this context?
Oct 29 15:19:10 <DocScrutinizer05> >><Wikiwide> Part of problem is, certification seems to be a significant stumbling block.<< Well, building a phone is more involved than a lot of enthusiasts and moneymakers out there think it was
Oct 29 15:19:52 <KotCzarny> i have high hopes for pinephone
Oct 29 15:20:49 <KotCzarny> https://www.pine64.org/2019/09/05/september-update-the-pinephone-is-real-shipping-soon/
Oct 29 15:25:28 <DocScrutinizer05> I am missing the OpenHWdocs aspect even getting mentioned by any of those players
Oct 29 15:29:09 <DocScrutinizer05> and after Nokia defeated my question about bootloader in Meego inception meeting ("The bootloader is not even a topic for us") and then betrayed community with a tivoized-by-aegis "secure-bootloader" N9 design, I'm *very very* skeptical about all those "we care about our customers, freedom and security" marketing BS-bingo companies
Oct 29 15:31:07 <DocScrutinizer05> Nokia lost the sense for proper design and "the right ting" with Quim Gill, I'd think. Other companies seem to never even have such mentor
Oct 29 15:33:51 <DocScrutinizer05> the "we provide the OS and the source of this is the platform docs" approach is ubiquitous in FOSS and particularly in phone making companies. It's a shame
Oct 29 16:36:29 <brolin_empey> Are QNX (BlackBerry 10) and XNU (Apple iOS) the only non-Linux-based *nix OSes used on a “mobile telephone”?  I mean BlackBerry 10 is based on QNX and Apple iOS uses the XNU kernel also used by Mac OS X as far as I know.  Someone began porting some form of BSD to the OpenMoko GTA02 but I do not know if it (this OS) had cellular telephony capability.
Oct 29 16:41:49 <DocScrutinizer05> on GTA02 basically a bash script had "cellular telephony capability"
Oct 29 16:43:14 <DocScrutinizer05> cellular data is a tad more tricky
Oct 29 16:44:44 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: Yes but, if I recall correctly, the only non-Linux-kernel-based OSes on the GTA02 were the BSD port I already mentioned and some other OS that was not based upon a preexisting OS.
Oct 29 16:45:09 <DocScrutinizer05> Android? ;-)
Oct 29 16:47:09 <DocScrutinizer05> I can't even recall all the OSes that were indevelopemnt for GTA02. Android prototype implementation was GTA02 iirc
Oct 29 16:48:22 <DocScrutinizer05> android has no X11 so I'd not call it a true linux
Oct 29 16:48:30 <DocScrutinizer05> aiui
Oct 29 16:48:32 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: No, Android uses a Linux (2.6 and higher) kernel.  This OS was maybe not even a *nix design.  I do not remember the name of it but it was released or at least announced in around 2009 or 2010 if I recall correctly.
Oct 29 16:49:21 <DocScrutinizer05> I only know of linux based OS versions developed in or around OM
Oct 29 16:50:41 <DocScrutinizer05> there was that Qt abomination that also didn't use X11
Oct 29 16:51:01 <brolin_empey> QtMoko?
Oct 29 16:51:13 <DocScrutinizer05> that's likely the name of it
Oct 29 16:51:37 <brolin_empey> Well, Qtopia AKA Qt Extended Improved, which is used by QtMoko.
Oct 29 16:53:22 <brolin_empey> If I recall correctly, Qt Extended Improved is the successor to Qtopia?
Oct 29 16:54:09 <brolin_empey> radekp (Radek Polak) had QtMoko running on the N900 and GTA01 in addition to the primary platform of the GTA02.
Oct 29 16:55:13 <KotCzarny> DocScrutinizer05: allwinner a64 is mostly mainlined by community
Oct 29 16:55:37 <KotCzarny> also, pine folks upload schematics too
Oct 29 20:28:15 <sicelo> talking about android and x11, i wonder if we'll see wayland adaptations for android
Oct 29 20:29:54 <sicelo> brolin_empey: https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-1 is one of the sites that seems to 'prove' that things aren't looking good for Purism. maybe he's reading the facts wrong, but ... it looks like he's correct
Oct 29 22:37:05 <brolin_empey> sicelo: I redd all three parts of that story.  A “phone” that cannot be used for (PSTN) telephone calls sounds like a “laptop” that cannot be used on top of a lap: see my comment on https://liliputing.com/2014/09/hp-announces-the-14-inch-300-hp-stream-laptop.html#comment-1774642743
Oct 29 22:52:37 <bencoh> sicelo: uh, I'm not even certain I want to keep reading on that article ... the begining just sounds depressing :/
Oct 29 22:53:15 <bencoh> (and the photo makes it even more so :( )
Oct 30 01:12:32 <Oksana> Tired. I am looking at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8146#c28 and wondering how I get my oftc password off my Nokia N900 since I do not remember it.
Oct 30 01:23:03 <Oksana> By trial-and-error, I have remembered my password for oftc, quiet as they are...
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 30 02:59:57 2019