**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 09 02:59:57 2019 Nov 09 16:04:01 hello Nov 09 16:04:14 i am interested in what shaders can run on maemo Nov 09 18:10:32 so now it's 10 years after the n900 Nov 09 18:10:44 any of you have thoughts on why it didn't become successful? Nov 09 18:20:54 price, apps, wrong timing and price. Done Nov 09 18:26:16 700 was about right for the best communicator at the time Nov 09 18:26:47 the sad conclusion is that market success is not predominantly based on building a 'better mousetrap' Nov 09 19:12:22 nope Nov 09 19:13:06 though nokia was too arrogant back in those days. Nov 09 19:13:36 Also if they had n9 earlier to fight the iphone then it might be a different story Nov 09 19:36:27 xmn: n900 could do more than iphone upon release Nov 09 19:36:36 other factors dominated, not capabilities Nov 09 19:36:42 politics, access Nov 09 19:37:25 but apple was smarter in many ways about controlling access to the platform Nov 09 19:37:39 "it has to be easy and adhering to this UI model" Nov 09 20:36:36 gillb .. heh I know I still use mine ;P Nov 09 20:36:50 yey xmn Nov 09 20:37:01 anybody good with fixing usb connectors in europe? Nov 09 20:37:08 i saw a thread about it Nov 09 20:37:20 i tried some smt soldering with heat gun and i am very bad at this Nov 09 20:37:49 but nokia still had an opportunity to hit back at apple before they got a ton of market share. the n9 had the best review of an OS. It was ranked up there with iOS and webOS Nov 09 20:38:22 mhm Nov 09 20:38:27 the usb is not as hard as an smt Nov 09 20:38:28 this stuff got me researching economics Nov 09 20:38:34 and path dependence of markets Nov 09 20:38:52 it's not super hard. Just depends on how messed up it is Nov 09 20:38:53 i strongly suspect nokia failed, because there was a bigger plan to make nokia fail Nov 09 20:39:06 and make them sell cheap Nov 09 20:39:38 KotCzarny yes, but this was after the n900 had been on the market for a bit. Nov 09 20:39:47 i have learned about other things, and it is possible in this world that companies like nokia can be attacked by a mix of state and nonstate actors Nov 09 20:40:01 nah, i suspect the plan was put in motion many years earlier Nov 09 20:40:03 remember nokia had what 6 vers of there OS before it was Microsofted Nov 09 20:40:25 yeah, but maemo was always sideproject for nerds Nov 09 20:40:34 yup Nov 09 20:40:43 until iOS came out Nov 09 20:40:56 remember the maemo guy lcuk? Nov 09 20:41:10 he pioneered swipe to use program interface for handhelds Nov 09 20:41:16 and tried to popularize it Nov 09 20:41:27 but that's my point. They had everything they needed. But were too big head to think anyone would want something else. Nov 09 20:48:18 I don't think I would've heard about N900 if I weren't already into Linux-related things. Nov 09 20:48:39 Apple was already doing pretty well at marketing their products everywhere. Nov 09 20:48:40 true Nov 09 20:48:56 i got addicted with n800 Nov 09 20:49:02 well it was in a lot of tech review for a while. But mostly as a nerd phone Nov 09 20:49:12 and was very happy when they declared linux phone Nov 09 20:49:24 Success in technology often doesn't have much to do with your ability to make good technology, but your ability to market it. Nov 09 20:50:07 I came from a newton (burned by S. Job for killing it), then zaurus 5500 ... which showed me linux can work. Then almost n810 ... but straight to n900 Nov 09 20:50:29 Maxdamantus, I would say a bit of both Nov 09 20:50:58 if you have great tech it will find a way, but not if it's not open standard. Nov 09 20:51:03 was nice when n800 appeared on the 4 fantastics movie or was n700 Nov 09 20:51:07 well, m$ tried to do windowsphone, but failed too Nov 09 20:51:17 so its a matter of a bit of luck too Nov 09 20:51:27 hitting the right vibe most Nov 09 20:51:42 Bill Gates said. It was a problem with the goverment and anti-trust rules Nov 09 20:51:45 by the time MS tried to push Wphones it was too late really Nov 09 20:52:13 so its not having tech or marketing solely Nov 09 20:52:17 at the point it was iOS, android and Black Berry still Nov 09 20:52:21 BG said. They were almost ready with windowsphone for the motorolla droid4 Nov 09 20:53:03 who or what's BG? Nov 09 20:53:09 window phone had some interesting aspects to it, but it was sadly attached to windows ... lol Nov 09 20:53:10 Bill Gates Nov 09 20:53:20 ah Nov 09 20:53:52 yes. BG said before motorolla droid4. It was space 4 another player. And android got that place Nov 09 20:53:52 anyway, fail of n900/maemo was mostly bad management at nokia Nov 09 20:54:15 ^ Nov 09 20:54:16 interesting sunshavi. any links for that? Nov 09 20:54:19 very tru Nov 09 20:54:27 let me look for it Nov 09 20:57:50 https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/6/20952370/bill-gates-windows-mobile-android-competition-comments-microsoft-antitrust Nov 09 20:59:32 thanks. will look at that shortly :) Nov 09 21:03:55 kotczarny: neon900 and pinephone hw could be a reality? Nov 09 21:04:35 neo900 won't Nov 09 21:05:07 has something on neon900 could be used on leste? Nov 09 21:05:28 i think the sw side of course Nov 09 21:05:49 and pinephone seems to be going mostly as planned, so it's very probable Nov 09 21:06:39 sunshavi: there was no SW component as far as Neo900 was concerned. it was going to run Maemo Fremantle, and by extension, Leste should have run on it Nov 09 21:06:41 great. That could be a great shot for having a linux phone and leave my feature-phone at home Nov 09 21:07:55 thanks sicelo. btw are you using cututube on n900? Nov 09 21:08:16 s/cututube/cutetube/ Nov 09 21:08:17 sunshavi meant: thanks sicelo. btw are you using cutetube on n900? Nov 09 21:08:45 very rarely. i don't watch too many youtube videos :) Nov 09 21:09:14 I stopped trying to use youtube on n900 :( Nov 09 21:09:44 i follow a couple of podcast. Which i watch on my son ipod touch and I want not to use it Nov 09 21:10:26 does cutetube not work again? Nov 09 21:10:28 s/podcast/video podcast/ Nov 09 21:10:28 sunshavi meant: i follow a couple of video podcast. Which i watch on my son ipod touch and I want not to use it Nov 09 21:11:23 i have not got it working. But I just was wondering if any of you guys are using it. I think maxdamantus was using it Nov 09 21:12:00 sicelo I don't know. It just became too much work to keep track of, so I just don't try. I think some may have foiund a way to make it work again ... just not sure. Nov 09 21:12:01 even after the recent work by halftux (and fmg?)? Nov 09 21:12:48 sunshavi: ^ Nov 09 21:13:32 yes even after that video does not open. But at least it searches the videos Nov 09 21:13:59 I don't use it. When I'm on holiday I often use youtube-dl on my N900 to download audio from youtube though. Nov 09 21:14:28 what version of youtube-dl :) Nov 09 21:14:30 I think I mentioned a few months ago that something like cutetube should really be using youtube-dl to ensure continued operation. Nov 09 21:14:40 Basically latest from git. Nov 09 21:15:04 runs as is on N900? i htink i once tried and had issues Nov 09 21:15:04 If it stops working, I'll just `git fetch && git checkout remotes/origin/master` and it should work again. Nov 09 21:15:14 wow, should try again Nov 09 21:15:15 I run it in a debian chroot. Nov 09 21:15:24 ah, makes sense then Nov 09 21:15:42 if I could search with thumbnail and then download ... that could be work installing again. But probably still not worth it. usually friends with much faster phones with bigger screen can player the video before I even open cutetube ... lol Nov 09 21:21:03 xmn: actually i say this "a phone that does not run emacs is not an smartphone" Nov 09 21:21:25 lol Nov 09 21:27:19 hello sunshavi do you have droid 4 Nov 09 21:27:39 it is my favorite keyboard phone ever Nov 09 21:27:42 i used to have it. it broken Nov 09 21:27:47 :( Nov 09 21:27:50 i have parts Nov 09 21:28:02 the kbd on droid 4 is not as good as the one on the n900 Nov 09 21:28:18 ok sunshavi that was a funny joke Nov 09 21:29:15 leste will run on the pinephone Nov 09 21:29:53 it is not a joke i am very serious about it. Have You tried coding on droid4? Nov 09 21:29:56 I'm hoping for leste to run on a future smaller fx pro2 type device :D Nov 09 21:31:03 sunshavi: you should program with a one-button keyboard Nov 09 21:31:11 with timing, you can time each byte with clicks Nov 09 21:34:05 actually i would like a bt one hand kbd but those are very expensive for my tastes Nov 09 21:37:04 on droid4 kbd i need to press several times a key for getting it to work that turns me imprecise. n900 kbd does not have that issue Nov 09 22:06:16 sunshavi: oh that would be bad yes Nov 09 22:06:30 my droid4 keyboards respond correctly to presses Nov 09 22:06:43 and the button travel is way better than n900 Nov 09 22:06:46 and the spacing Nov 09 22:06:49 and the TWO more rows Nov 09 22:11:38 i do experience the problem sunshavi is mentioning with droid 4 keyboard, but only on the '0' key Nov 09 22:24:11 hrmph Nov 09 22:24:27 sicelo: what are chances of getting some gpu acceleration on droid 4? Nov 09 22:41:23 I've found the keyboards on my N900s feel fairly different to each other. Nov 09 22:42:35 also, the keys on my current N900 have been falling off recently. Nov 09 22:42:50 * Maxdamantus has been sticking them back on with silicone. Nov 09 22:43:07 gillb: gpu acceleration? if you mean on linux mainline kernel, Wizzup will know better, but it's promising Nov 09 22:43:19 Maxdamantus: does the silicone hold well? Nov 09 22:43:43 i will start crying here if we can do accelerated scaling and some video on droid 4 Nov 09 22:44:02 sicelo: seems to hold reasonably well, though the first one only came off a couple of weeks ago, so hasn't had a huge amount of testing time. Nov 09 22:44:49 Have to be careful with the amount though: on the first two keys, I used a bit too much silicone, so they feel quite stiff when you press them. Nov 09 22:46:07 The silicone I'm using is actually just bathroom sealant. Nov 09 22:46:29 sicelo: gillb http://lists.letux.org/pipermail/openpvrsgx-devgroup/ Nov 09 23:50:14 hey since I have some of you folks here. does talk.maemo.org rss feed still work for you in the built-in osso-rss reader? I'm using http://talk.maemo.org/external.php?type=RSS Nov 09 23:50:45 It just stopped work one day maybe the middle of this year Nov 10 00:05:25 i think n900 kbd is rought than droid 4. But that is according to my workflow YMMV :) Nov 10 00:05:54 Wizzup: leste on pinephone could be my next smartphone Nov 10 00:06:19 even I know i am leaving a great kbd Nov 10 00:08:21 xmn: last time i used osse-rss reader was almost 5 years ago on an n800. now i read rss within emacs Nov 10 00:09:21 lol Nov 10 00:09:35 yeah most dont seem to like it Nov 10 00:10:06 i liked it. At that time my emacs was not hildonized Nov 10 00:10:34 almost impossible using emacs at that time Nov 10 01:18:16 I guess I like the fact that you can see your list of rss feeds and number of unread and well as the feed your actually reading. Nov 10 01:18:39 So I usually hide the list, but nice when I not sure what I want to read next **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 10 02:59:57 2019