**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 21 02:59:57 2019 Nov 21 06:43:13 I guess the answer is yes but is the term “letter” as in a form of written correspondence (spelling?) still used even when using a writing system such as Chinese or Japanese that does not use letters? Nov 21 06:49:29 I guess in the same way that the term “right of way” is still used even where road traffic is on the left side of the road. Nov 21 06:54:43 what is your syncevolution use case xmn? you're xman on tmo? Nov 21 07:24:09 brolin_empey: are you asking if people speaking English would use the word "letter" to refer to CJK characters? Nov 21 07:25:05 brolin_empey: because most English speakers probably don't spend much time talking about CJK characters. Nov 21 07:25:47 brolin_empey: and "letter" is an English word. In the more relevant languages, they're going to use different words which might have different meanings. Nov 21 07:27:47 Oh, you're asking if English speakers would describe letters written in Chinese as "letters". Nov 21 07:28:40 I suspect the answer to that is "yes", but it's not going to be something most people think about. Nov 21 07:29:15 also i think (non-native English speaker here) that "right" in 'right of way' does not refer to the right side, but means "right" as something you are entitled to. Nov 21 07:29:39 Right. Nov 21 07:31:43 The words are etymologically related in both cases, but they have fairly distinct meanings for their different uses. Nov 21 07:32:43 eg, the notion of "left" and "right" used to correspond to evil/good, sinister/dexter Nov 21 07:32:49 wrong/right Nov 21 07:40:53 nope, it was from the times where people travelled on horses Nov 21 07:41:14 and there was left-lane convention Nov 21 07:41:25 right hand was for holding the weapon Nov 21 07:41:25 ;) Nov 21 07:42:26 That explains which side of the road people drive on (arguably), but it doesn't explain the connection between "right of way" and "right (direction)" Nov 21 07:42:44 well, when cars were invented, it was forcibly standardized Nov 21 07:42:47 I don't think "right of way" has ever referred particularly to the direction. Nov 21 07:42:52 for some other reason Nov 21 07:43:08 also, "right of way" doesn't even mean "which side of the road" Nov 21 07:43:17 but the generic term 'right of way' comes from the horsies era Nov 21 07:44:15 and as always, google helps to find etymology of that sentence Nov 21 07:44:40 but how much does "right of way" even have to do with "right (direction)"? Nov 21 07:45:02 Currently in countries that drive on the right, you tend to have the right of way if you're turning right. Nov 21 07:45:16 never said that it came from the right/left. only said it was related to horsies Nov 21 07:45:34 but that's based on standardised rules (and to some extent, geometry). Nov 21 07:46:03 I did not include the Korean language in my list of example languages that do not use an alphabet because my understanding as a Westerner but who has studied languages and writing systems is that the Korean language has multiple writing systems, specifically at least Hangul and Hanja but I thought that at least Hangul is closer to being like an alphabet than the Chinese writing system using Chinese characters/ideograms because I thought Hangul has much fewer Nov 21 07:46:03 written symbols than something like the Chinese language but I last studied the Korean language too long ago to be certain about this stuff. Nov 21 07:46:05 eg, in NZ we've always driven on the left, but until recently, right-turning traffic had the right of way. Nov 21 07:48:55 brolin_empey: I think Japanese/Korean are kind of in a similar state there. Both have some sort of alphabet, but they also both use Hanzi/Kanji/Hanza. Nov 21 07:49:16 (ideographs borrowed from Chinese) Nov 21 07:50:16 s/Hanza/Hanja/ Nov 21 07:55:15 oh well, whatever the history of the expression may be, in current usage means the one with right of way is entitled to move first. in current usage it doesn't seem to have anything to do with direction. Nov 21 07:55:32 ass meant donkey for aeons. today ... Nov 21 07:57:48 hello richard Nov 21 07:57:49 ;) Nov 21 07:58:35 Stallman? Nov 21 08:00:28 Presumably one that goes by "Dick". Nov 21 08:00:49 words mutate Nov 21 08:00:56 language is fluid Nov 21 08:01:17 and memes are viruses that mutate it forcibly and fast Nov 21 08:01:42 and live long changing other words and meanings on the way Nov 21 08:03:06 ads are artifically created capitalist memes Nov 21 09:56:57 Why does it take so long for Modest to Send&Receive? It doesn't even show "Refreshing"! Nov 21 09:57:48 I have nought in Outbox, so there is no Sending involved, even. Nov 21 10:35:16 ssl negotiation and directories listing? Nov 21 10:35:27 and checking mail ids Nov 21 12:24:27 http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/acadapter.html Nov 21 12:24:28 har har Nov 21 12:28:41 gwd! Nov 21 12:41:33 Is there any remotely recent browser for Maemo 5 on the N900 other than Opera? Nov 21 12:47:12 lynx 😉 Nov 21 13:11:36 So PostmarketOS, which coincidentally would have a more recent version of Firefox. Nov 21 14:02:50 doesnt dillo work? Nov 21 15:02:16 dillo works Nov 21 15:02:30 but it's not the best browser for modern websites (unfortunately) Nov 21 15:08:04 postmarketod does nit have firefox on n900, iirc (alpine loves purging stuff, and ff depends on something they currently don't have on ARM, possibly Rust) Nov 21 15:08:31 typos ... writing on samsung galaxy, :( Nov 21 15:12:05 desktop firefox on n900 would be plain unusable anyway Nov 21 15:12:31 it's quite awful on droid4 ... I wouldn't even think about running it on n900 Nov 21 15:12:54 sicelo: rust is installe on my opi+2e which is arm Nov 21 15:12:58 (well, on droid4 it's more okayish than awful ... but not great) Nov 21 15:13:11 what about recent fennec, bencoh ? Nov 21 15:14:12 sunshavi: i don't recall exact missing dependency, but iirc there's no FF for ARM in Alpine currently Nov 21 15:15:20 that is weird. ff works on archlinux arm aka alarm Nov 21 15:15:29 there used to be, however, hence there are a couple of screenshots showing FF on pmOS devices Nov 21 15:20:16 sunshavi: alpine/pmos is quick to remove stuff, so i don't find that weird (anymore) Nov 21 15:25:48 FF only available on x86_64 and aarch64, https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/packages?name=firefox&branch=edge Nov 21 15:26:25 perhaps nobody is compiling it for 32 bits Nov 21 16:21:41 so yes, it is Rust .. Nov 21 16:21:44 https://github.com/alpinelinux/aports/pull/10778 Nov 21 17:40:33 Question: I recently dug out my n900 (last used in 2014) - is there still a community keeping this thing useful? Nov 21 17:40:43 yup Nov 21 17:40:49 google about maemo-leste Nov 21 18:14:02 Awesome Nov 21 20:34:08 https://www.imbushuo.net/blog/archives/725 Nov 21 20:34:26 I was gonna ask if theoretically, windows 10 could be coaxed to run on an n900 Nov 21 20:34:43 but I realize UEFI requirement is showstopper Nov 21 21:05:18 eew! Nov 21 21:05:46 for shits and giggles Nov 21 22:51:08 Why couldn't UEFI be implemented on N900? Nov 21 22:52:21 there is no uefi Nov 21 22:52:39 or you want uboot to emulate one or something? Nov 21 23:18:53 > An implementation of the UEFI API was introduced into the Universal Boot Loader (Das U-Boot) in 2017.[75] On the ARMv8 architecture Linux distributions use the U-Boot UEFI implementation in conjunction with GNU GRUB for booting (e.g. SUSE Linux [76]), the same holds true for OpenBSD.[77] For booting from iSCSI iPXE can be used as a UEFI application loaded by U-Boot.[78] Nov 21 23:19:01 seems to only exist on armv8? not sure Nov 21 23:24:55 [edit] Nov 21 23:24:55 Intel's first Itanium workstations and servers, released in 2000, implemented EFI 1.02. Nov 21 23:24:58 Hewlett-Packard's first Itanium 2 systems, released in 2002, implemented EFI 1.10; Nov 21 23:25:08 all that stuff is just retro enterprise :P **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 22 02:59:57 2019