**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 17 02:59:57 2020 Jan 17 07:16:07 It seems like it would be much easier inclusive-or simpler to have a computer boot from an easily removable non-volatile writable medium such as an SD card than from non-volatile memory soldered on the motherboard, such as eMMC or other forms of fixed/soldered flash memory, because then you could even use only the mobile/embedded computer itself or any other computer with an SD card reader/writer to modify the boot medium instead of having to use a USB Jan 17 07:16:07 loader program on a physically separate computer, which obviously requires that the USB port on the mobile/embedded computer still works. Apparently the PinePhone will be able to boot from an SD card but I do not know if the PinePhone will work well for running recent versions of Android? Jan 17 07:28:36 I guess it should be feasible to boot and run the same OS installation on an SD card on a PinePhone as on the other form factors of Pine computers, even including the PineBook? Jan 17 07:32:28 I suspect boot medium is not usually a significant aspect of the device. It's just a matter of what's there. Jan 17 07:33:04 You can easily set up an N900 to basically work that way. Jan 17 07:34:01 I think the main question is whether or not there is internal memory. aiui, SD cards tend to be a lot less reliable than flash, but I think that's because SD cards are expected to be disposable, not due to some inherent manufacturing reason. Jan 17 07:35:13 inherent reason is lack of space for the silicon? Jan 17 07:35:38 and price/cost cutting Jan 17 07:35:41 Personally, I would rather the main storage be replacable without soldering. eg, I have a Kobo Clara HD, which internally just uses a microSD for its main storage. It came out of the box with an 8 GB microSD card, which you can replace if you are able to copy the image to a new card. Jan 17 07:36:00 there are emmc cards Jan 17 07:38:34 Well, the main reason is people's expectations, which you could characterise as price/cost cutting in that the economical thing is to provide what is expected. Jan 17 07:39:17 SD cards don't last as long as internal flash storage because people don't expect them to. Jan 17 07:39:31 greatly depends on the card and os Jan 17 07:39:38 If they did last that long, people would be spending more for those cards. Jan 17 07:39:58 my bpi-r1 works for some years now on sandisk industrial Jan 17 07:40:07 (now 'endurance' series) Jan 17 07:40:27 cost twice as much per gb but works Jan 17 07:41:20 Exactly. I suspect that's still not as reliable though, eg, as the eMMC storage in an N900. Jan 17 07:41:37 how many people's N900 storages have failed? Jan 17 07:42:13 who knows, it's indistinguishible from chip failures for many Jan 17 07:44:56 I suspect there's also an aspect of planned obsolescence involved in making the storage non-replacable. Jan 17 07:45:24 i wouldnt go as far Jan 17 07:45:42 its cheaper/faster to solder the chip than to add socket and inserting card in it Jan 17 07:45:56 aiui, phones nowadays tend not to have any replacable storage at all, so you can't just keep using your same old device with bigger and bigger SD cards. Jan 17 07:46:22 But it's cheaper for the end user to at least allow extendable storage. Jan 17 07:46:34 also, sdcard probably means some license fees for manufacturer, no? Jan 17 07:47:33 I really doubt that's a significant reason for Apple/Samsung/etc to not have SD slots on their phones. Jan 17 07:47:50 slots take space too Jan 17 07:47:51 (assuming Samsung doesn't have SD slots; I don't really know; I know that Apple doesn't though) Jan 17 07:48:43 Sure, but if you do a cost/benefit analysis from an end user perspective, I'm pretty sure an SD slot would be a major win. Jan 17 07:49:06 unless people go online and dont care about storages anymore Jan 17 07:49:10 I'm pretty sure storage is a major reason people upgrade phones. Jan 17 07:49:13 netflix/yt/tidal/spotify etc Jan 17 07:49:38 now its mostly needed for apps Jan 17 07:49:52 which usually means 32gb is a much more than ever neede Jan 17 07:49:56 Given than iPhones are still increasing significantly in storage, I don't think that's quite correct. Jan 17 07:50:10 newer iPhone = more storage Jan 17 07:50:17 if you want more storage, you need to buy a new phone Jan 17 07:50:20 marketing Jan 17 07:50:23 can't just replace an SD card Jan 17 07:50:24 bigger, newer! Jan 17 07:51:14 tbg, if not for the mp3/avi, i wouldnt need more than 2-4gb on n900 Jan 17 07:51:18 *tbh Jan 17 07:52:31 Apparently Samsung does have SD slots in modern phones. Jan 17 07:55:21 I have a ZIM version of the English Wikipedia on my N900 (no images), which is 34 GiB Jan 17 07:56:11 unfortunately it's about two years old, it looks like they're having issues continuing to create those archives. Jan 17 07:56:48 and 36 GiB of music Jan 17 07:57:52 I also have things like bootable live Linux systems which I can expose using g_file_storage Jan 17 08:00:09 and usually when I want to copy some files from someone else's computer, I expect to be able to just do something like `touch tmpdisk && truncate -s20G tmpdisk && mkfs.vfat -F32 tmpdisk && modprobe g_file_storage file="$PWD"/tmpdisk` Jan 17 08:00:38 :) Jan 17 08:01:57 I had to stop using my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 around a year ago because the Android 4.4 OS became too antiquated to run lots of current software, not because I needed more than 32 GB of fixed flash memory. The SD card reader/writer does not work on my Galaxy Note 3 so I had only 32 GB of eMMC for everything. Jan 17 08:07:50 Extended support for Windows 7, which was originally released in 2009, ended only this week but the HTC Dream, the first computer to ship with Android, was originally released only in 2008. Jan 17 08:13:46 The upgrade treadmill for Android and other consumer mobile OSes seems to be much faster than for “desktop” OSes that have been evolving since the 1990s or earlier. Mac OS X has a fast upgrade treadmill, which may be part of the reason for its small market share/installed base. Jan 17 15:10:50 Does anyone have a working sources.list for easydebian? Jan 17 15:34:12 If I'm running stock maemo, no CSSU, will an armhf img of Debian work with easydebian? Jan 17 15:35:06 Or does it have to be armel Jan 17 21:01:29 Is there some hack that makes skype work in maemo? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 18 02:59:59 2020