**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 12 02:59:56 2020
Dec 12 16:10:42 <CatButts> my brain is asleep, how do I reboot?
Dec 12 16:10:55 <CatButts> brain reboot
Dec 12 16:11:14 <CatButts> need happen on new slate
Dec 12 18:58:10 * enyc meows CatButts 
Dec 12 22:15:49 <CatButts> I am ever-so-slightly closer to getting my messy crosscompiler to work
Dec 12 22:16:52 <CatButts> so, #include <gtk/gtk.h> doesn't come through
Dec 12 22:17:27 <CatButts> but it exists in includes/gtk-2.0/gtk.h
Dec 12 22:18:18 <CatButts> so this means I have to reach out to it with compiler option -IPATH/TO/GTKHEADERS
Dec 12 22:18:35 <CatButts> probably with -I=/........
Dec 12 22:19:02 <CatButts> the tricky bit is the =
Dec 12 22:19:42 <CatButts> with works as expected with some gcc kits, fails with others
Dec 12 22:21:38 <CatButts> #include <gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h> is out of the question, as the other gtk headers will fail
Dec 12 22:28:21 <CatButts> eh, I will figure it out eventually
Dec 12 22:29:54 <CatButts> errrrrrrrrrr
Dec 12 22:30:12 <CatButts> *but it exists in includes/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h
Dec 12 22:51:00 <CatButts> hildon is the N900's default UI, yes?
Dec 12 22:51:18 <CatButts> is it safe to assume that if I can see hildon, X server is running?
Dec 12 22:52:05 <CatButts> I want to try out XCB
Dec 12 22:52:50 <Maxdamantus> Yes, hildon runs on X.
Dec 12 22:53:10 <CatButts> aha, thanks
Dec 12 22:53:56 <Maxdamantus> afaik, everything from the "three dots" in Maemo is running in X.
Dec 12 22:54:24 <Maxdamantus> can't remember if the nokia hands are before or after the dots (I disabled them), but that will be in X too.
Dec 12 22:54:48 <CatButts> the three dots being?
Dec 12 22:55:29 <Maxdamantus> At some stage during booting, there should be an animation involving three dots in the middle of the screen.
Dec 12 22:55:45 <CatButts> ah, 4 or 5 dots
Dec 12 22:55:49 <Maxdamantus> Screen is black, but three large white dots flick on/off or something.
Dec 12 22:55:54 <Maxdamantus> yeah, maybe 4 or 5, can't remember.
Dec 12 22:56:18 <CatButts> textured dots where light moves to next one and wraps to first
Dec 12 23:01:09 <sixwheeledbeast> ~boot-process
Dec 12 23:01:09 <infobot> i heard boot-process is http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5_boot_process
Dec 12 23:03:56 <CatButts> `ELF
Dec 12 23:04:02 <CatButts> ~elf
Dec 12 23:04:02 <infobot> methinks elf is the Executable and Linking Format .. it is a Binary format used by System V Release 4 Unix. It is also the prefered binary format in Linux. or the little people.  There are three kind of elven: Noldor, Sindar and Wood elven
Dec 12 23:04:54 <CatButts> in context of compiling software, an elf .so can be both linked against dynamically, or statically brought into the program, yes?
Dec 12 23:06:22 <CatButts> so, in windows terms, a windows .dll and a compiler lib
Dec 12 23:16:28 <Maxdamantus> ".so" specifically means "shared object", so it's only meant to be used for dynamic linking.
Dec 12 23:17:32 <Maxdamantus> libraries that are meant to be statically linked normally end in ".o", and they're usually packaged in some archive file that end in ".a"
Dec 12 23:20:19 <Maxdamantus> I think Windows has that distinction too, where static libraries are ".lib" or something.
Dec 12 23:21:17 <CatButts> aha, so, .so don't double as "dlls" and libs
Dec 12 23:21:53 <Maxdamantus> They are libs, but they're meant to be linked dynamically, not statically.
Dec 12 23:22:56 <CatButts> so, just the dll part
Dec 12 23:23:14 <Maxdamantus> Sure, where "dll" afaik stands for "dynamically linked library"
Dec 12 23:24:03 * Maxdamantus doesn't know too much about Windows usage nowadays.
Dec 12 23:24:13 <CatButts> I'm kinda drunk, I should continue tomorrow
Dec 12 23:44:36 <sixwheeledbeast> comparing linux and windows like that is difficult as they do that stuff completely differently.
Dec 12 23:52:51 <sixwheeledbeast> Package management and dependencies mean the concept of a DLL isn't a thing.
Dec 12 23:53:33 <CatButts> what's package management?
Dec 12 23:53:47 * CatButts loads everything relative to current directory
Dec 12 23:54:11 <CatButts> *relative to application's executing directory
Dec 12 23:55:12 <CatButts> that's win9x mentality
Dec 12 23:55:15 <CatButts> hue
Dec 12 23:56:03 <CatButts> with advent of NT, you gots things like "documents and settings" per-user profile folder doohickey thing
Dec 12 23:56:19 <CatButts> or whatever they decided to rename it to vista+
Dec 12 23:57:35 <CatButts> and now, "program files" folder is read-only(you can write with special privileges)
Dec 12 23:57:48 <CatButts> as if to discourage the win9x mentality
Dec 12 23:59:14 <CatButts> loads-a-bollocks, if ya ask me
Dec 13 00:04:30 <CatButts> linux mentality resembles NT one, I suppose, but is waaay more compartimentalized
Dec 13 00:05:09 <CatButts> "this part of the application goes into bin X, this one in bin Y, and this in Z"
Dec 13 00:06:03 <CatButts> the config, the main application, and whatever .so it may depend on
Dec 13 00:07:24 <CatButts> in NT, the separation is partial, with each application(say if built with Qt) having duplicates of same dlls in each appfolder
Dec 13 00:07:36 <CatButts> but settings get put in dedicated place
Dec 13 00:08:22 <CatButts> I am alligned to win9x mentality, where app and its folder of gubbins are self-sufficient
Dec 13 00:13:05 <Maxdamantus> Kind of like gobolinux afaik.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 13 02:59:56 2020