**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 23 02:59:57 2021
Jan 23 03:51:28 <Maxdamantus> I used it as my main terminal emulator on my laptop (Aspire One) back in 2012 or so.
Jan 23 03:52:05 <Maxdamantus> Because it seemed more power-efficient than running Xorg.
Jan 23 03:52:35 <Maxdamantus> (and at least at the time, it seemed to be a lot faster than fbcon in the kernel)
Jan 23 03:56:16 <Maxdamantus> I suspect it supported proper hinting (based on rules in the ttf file), since I find unhinted (or badly hinted) text annoying to read.
Jan 23 12:04:37 <enyc> Maxdamantus: interestingy, not heard of that!
Jan 23 12:04:58 <enyc> Maxdamantus: I remember all the krefluffle when framebuffer console started in first place,  vs  svgalib modes and so on!
Jan 23 12:09:43 <Maxdamantus> I have a feeling that fbcon is faster nowadays, though I don't use it as a primary terminal emulator.
Jan 23 12:10:34 <Maxdamantus> (normally on my desktops/laptop, I use urxvt, and on N900 I just use the usual osso-xterm)
Jan 23 12:10:53 <Maxdamantus> would like to switch at some point on N900 to use something with proper font rendering though.
Jan 23 12:11:45 <Maxdamantus> the bad font rendering is not so noticable on N900 since it has a higher pixel density than all the other displays I use, but still whenever I do end up running something on N900 with proper font rendering, it looks much clearer.
Jan 23 12:13:33 <Maxdamantus> ("bad" as in unhinted—I haven't managed to get anything in Maemo to work with ttf hinting enabled, have only ever got it working in a Debian chroot)
Jan 23 12:18:40 <Maxdamantus> https://maxdamantus.eu.org/freetype.png in case anyone wants an example of the distinction, though those examples are not on N900.
Jan 23 12:29:23 <sunshavi> Maxdamantus: my problem is with font rendering on fbterm. Perhaps I should try fbcon first?
Jan 23 12:29:41 <Maxdamantus> sunshavi: what's the problem?
Jan 23 12:30:02 <Maxdamantus> fbcon just uses some stored bitmaps.
Jan 23 12:30:24 <sunshavi> i use xterm and xst, and virtual console and when i want 256 colors on the virtual terminal I use fbterm. 
Jan 23 12:30:41 <sunshavi> let me share a couple of images one of the virtual console and the other one about fbterm
Jan 23 12:32:34 <sunshavi> https://termbin.com/xmc7n
Jan 23 12:34:17 <Maxdamantus> Yeah, that fbterm picture is unhinted.
Jan 23 12:35:07 <Maxdamantus> fbcon is effectively hinted since its fonts are 2-bit bitmaps.
Jan 23 12:36:03 <sunshavi> Then. should I try fbcon?
Jan 23 12:36:17 <sunshavi> let me check yaourt about fbcon
Jan 23 12:36:22 <Maxdamantus> You've already got a picture of fbcon.
Jan 23 12:36:32 <Maxdamantus> The "-s5Q.png" picture is fbcon.
Jan 23 12:36:46 <sunshavi> :o
Jan 23 12:36:53 <Maxdamantus> fbcon is just the fb terminal emulator in the kernel.
Jan 23 12:37:06 <sunshavi> for me that's the virtual terminal (GNU/Linux virtual terminal)
Jan 23 12:38:09 <Maxdamantus> Not sure about that description, but I imagine it would also apply to the kernel's VGA text mode terminal emulator too.
Jan 23 12:38:37 <Maxdamantus> (which just uses VGA text instead of drawing text itself on a framebuffer)
Jan 23 12:38:59 <sunshavi> nice to know. thanks for the clarification
Jan 23 12:39:20 <sunshavi> on fbterm i can get more rows
Jan 23 12:40:30 <sunshavi> it bothers me a little bit. And also when rendering the text is slower than fbcon aka (GNU/Linux virtual terminal)
Jan 23 12:41:16 <sunshavi> But. When I want more vertical space for inspecting irc logs. fbterm is paramount
Jan 23 12:41:19 <Maxdamantus> Yeah, as I said, I think fbcon is faster nowadays. It used to be relatively slow.
Jan 23 12:41:38 <sunshavi> now it is faster than xterm at least on my SBC
Jan 23 12:41:44 <Maxdamantus> (the VGA text mode terminal was fast back in 2012)
Jan 23 12:42:36 <sunshavi> Maxdamantus: Thanks for the help
Jan 23 12:43:31 <sunshavi> I am going out for a couple of hours. Have a great day or depending of your timezone (the rest of the day)
Jan 23 12:44:17 <Maxdamantus> If the thing you don't like about the font rendering is the lack of hinting, maybe you could try using something like this in your ~/.fonts.conf: https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/11ecda2994c05332ac7a29c3545505a3
Jan 23 12:44:54 <Maxdamantus> and if that doesn't change anything, maybe run it under strace to see if it's actually reading the config file.
Jan 23 12:45:47 <sunshavi> let me check fbterm shows the font rendering with a command line switch
Jan 23 12:45:55 <Maxdamantus> actually, if you're using a recent version of freetype, I'd also suggest using this environment variable: FREETYPE_PROPERTIES=truetype:interpreter-version=35
Jan 23 12:46:12 <Maxdamantus> (in combination with that ~/.fonts.conf setting)
Jan 23 12:48:06 <sunshavi> I am on archlinux-arm. with the latest and greatest
Jan 23 12:48:11 <sunshavi> talk to you later.
Jan 23 12:48:46 <Maxdamantus> Okay, good luck.
Jan 23 16:02:24 <sunshavi> Maxdamantus: http://0x0.st/---M.png
Jan 23 16:02:29 <sunshavi> it has improved
Jan 23 16:39:12 <visionvirus> infobot ~sb
Jan 23 19:41:44 <Maxdamantus> sunshavi: hmm .. looks about the same to me.
Jan 23 19:42:21 <Maxdamantus> I tried running fbterm last night, and it didn't seem to be doing antialiasing.
Jan 23 19:43:39 <sunshavi> I am comparing both.
Jan 23 19:43:58 <sunshavi> Maxdamantus: with the modifications it looks a little bit clear
Jan 23 19:44:38 <sunshavi> not as great as the virtual terminal aka fbcon
Jan 23 19:45:14 <Maxdamantus> Maybe, though still neither is properly hinted, so they're both fuzzy, at least to me.
Jan 23 19:46:36 <sunshavi> Mmmm. How hinting could be gotten?
Jan 23 19:48:38 <Maxdamantus> Theoretically, by using that "hintstyle" setting that you've now got in .fonts.conf, and using FREETYPE_PROPERTIES=truetype:interpreter-version=35
Jan 23 19:51:06 <Maxdamantus> (in freetype 2.7 or so, they changed the way hinting instructions are used by default, so you have to set that environment variable to get the previous behaviour)
Jan 23 19:53:10 <sunshavi> https://termbin.com/ttwx
Jan 23 19:53:17 <sunshavi> that is my freetype2 version
Jan 23 19:54:06 <Maxdamantus> Right, so you'll need that environment variable set to do proper full-pixel hinting.
Jan 23 19:54:41 <sunshavi> I have done : export FREETYPE_PROPERTIES=truetype:interpreter-version=35
Jan 23 19:54:51 <sunshavi> and then : fbterm -v
Jan 23 20:23:52 <Maxdamantus> Okay, got it working nicely for me, but had to modify the fbterm source code.
Jan 23 20:25:02 <Maxdamantus> Also had to explicitly enable antialiasing in fontconfig, since fbterm has it off by default, but you've already got that part enabled (maybe your system fontconfig sets it)
Jan 23 20:25:27 <Maxdamantus> for the hinting part, I needed to `FT_LOAD_TARGET_LIGHT` in the source code to `FT_LOAD_TARGET_NORMAL`
Jan 23 20:25:38 <Maxdamantus> needed to change*
Jan 23 20:26:10 <Maxdamantus> https://maxdamantus.eu.org/fb2.png
Jan 23 20:27:55 <Maxdamantus> Deleted that previous image: https://maxdamantus.eu.org/fb3.png
Jan 23 20:30:14 <sunshavi> ok. Let me try it
Jan 23 20:35:15 <visionvirus> how to install the sdk to a new debian?
Jan 23 20:38:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ~sb
Jan 23 20:38:19 <infobot> well, scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB
Jan 23 20:39:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ~sdk
Jan 23 20:39:29 <infobot> sdk is probably http://privatepaste.com/e4a5b13fad or "wget http://repository.maemo.org/tabletsdev/explicit/maemo-dev-env-downloads/downloads/Readme_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.txt", or https://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide
Jan 23 20:43:43 <DocScrutinizer05> hmmm
Jan 23 20:43:48 <DocScrutinizer05> http://repository.maemo.org/
Jan 23 20:49:04 <sunshavi> Maxdamantus: on line 253 of font.cpp I have FT_LOAD_TARGET_NORMAL. should I change it to FT_LOAD_TARGET_LIGHT?
Jan 23 20:51:58 <visionvirus> #deb http://scratchbox.org/debian/ maemo5-sdk main
Jan 23 20:52:50 <KotCzarny> best way is using virtual machine image
Jan 23 20:53:14 <visionvirus> KotCzarny: ah, with an old debian? which version?
Jan 23 20:53:37 <KotCzarny> dont know, i personally use chroot (~500mb)
Jan 23 20:53:38 <Maxdamantus> sunshavi: hm, no. I was expecting it to be the other way round.
Jan 23 20:53:58 <KotCzarny> but for a new user, vm is quickest 
Jan 23 20:54:05 <Maxdamantus> sunshavi: in the fbterm source code that I've got (used by nixpkgs), it has `FT_LOAD_TARGET_LIGHT`
Jan 23 20:54:05 <visionvirus> i mostly use chroot, too
Jan 23 20:54:24 <visionvirus> for my other partitions, to update em all in oce
Jan 23 20:54:25 <visionvirus> once
Jan 23 20:54:56 <visionvirus> KotCzarny: which debian version are u using then?
Jan 23 20:55:01 <sunshavi> Maxdamantus: I have the git version. Last log change 2015-05-09 by Arthur Shevchenko
Jan 23 20:55:49 <Maxdamantus> sunshavi: hm, yeah, okay, I see that too in the version from https://github.com/gjedeer/fbterm
Jan 23 20:56:51 <Maxdamantus> sunshavi: were you just running it from a package manager beforehand? Maybe you should just build from git as-is and see if that works out.
Jan 23 20:57:14 <sunshavi> https://github.com/izmntuk/fbterm
Jan 23 20:57:16 <KotCzarny> visionvirus: im using chroot on my orange pi which is using devuan something something
Jan 23 20:57:24 <Maxdamantus> since when I ran it from both nixpkgs and debian testing, I got the same behaviour where it was presumably only using "light" hinting.
Jan 23 20:59:48 <Maxdamantus> sunshavi: yes, that has the change too.
Jan 23 21:00:18 <DocScrutinizer05> visionvirus: http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB/desktop/
Jan 23 21:00:23 <DocScrutinizer05> VM image
Jan 23 21:00:33 <Maxdamantus> sunshavi: in fact, it's the last commit, so good chance that it's not in package repos: https://github.com/izmntuk/fbterm/commit/5b48962aa46648a94e3f74609059830218730455
Jan 23 21:04:29 <visionvirus> 22:00 < DocScrutinizer05> visionvirus: http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB/desktop/
Jan 23 21:04:33 <visionvirus> 22:00 < DocScrutinizer05> VM image
Jan 23 21:04:56 <visionvirus> ups... somebody got a installable pkg-config deb for maemo5?
Jan 23 21:05:00 <visionvirus> thanX DocScrutinizer05 !
Jan 23 21:05:20 <sunshavi> Maxdamantus: THanks for the help. I am going out again for another couple of hours. I'll be back later
Jan 23 21:08:38 <DocScrutinizer05> aah, completely unrelated but worth remembering... If only I could... :-S
Jan 23 21:08:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ~phonetools
Jan 23 21:09:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ~listvalues phonetool
Jan 23 21:09:21 <infobot> Factoid search of 'phonetool' by value returned no results.
Jan 23 21:11:15 <visionvirus> ~help
Jan 23 21:15:35 <DocScrutinizer05> ~phonecontrol
Jan 23 21:15:35 <infobot> i heard phonecontrol is http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control
Jan 23 21:15:46 <DocScrutinizer05> ^^^ recommended
Jan 23 21:15:55 <DocScrutinizer05> lots of nifty stuff
Jan 23 21:44:01 <DocScrutinizer05> visionvirus: also see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/dirsnapshot2.png
Jan 23 21:44:56 <DocScrutinizer05> please don't post any full URLs anywhere or this stuff will vanish immediately
Jan 23 21:46:42 <visionvirus> aha DocScrutinizer05 ok
Jan 23 21:47:27 <visionvirus> whats about that snapshot?
Jan 23 21:47:50 <visionvirus> cause of the qemu ?
Jan 23 21:49:14 <DocScrutinizer05> visionvirus: refer http://repository.maemo.org/tabletsdev/explicit/maemo-dev-env-downloads/downloads/Readme_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.txt
Jan 23 21:49:50 <DocScrutinizer05> Nokia never gave permission to re-host for some stuff
Jan 23 21:56:23 <visionvirus> aha... 
Jan 23 21:56:38 <visionvirus> thats a lil uncool ;) from noka .... but ok
Jan 23 21:59:10 <visionvirus> DocScrutinizer05: the links isn available anymore
Jan 23 22:00:29 <DocScrutinizer05> see?
Jan 23 22:02:54 <DocScrutinizer05> >>a lil uncool ;) from noka<< well they never owned the full (C) themselves since they got some stuff outsourced
Jan 23 22:04:04 <DocScrutinizer05> and I guess they only were allowed to use it for shipping with / to N900(-owners)
Jan 23 22:05:29 <DocScrutinizer05> nobody bought $maemo so I guess this is orphaned now, nevertheless I am not interested to find out
Jan 23 22:06:21 <visionvirus> oha, ok
Jan 23 22:10:17 <DocScrutinizer05> weird business shit, nokia didn't own the sourcecode and full unlimited use of the binaries, but the subcontractor didn't own full right on the sourcecode they wrote either
Jan 23 22:11:21 <DocScrutinizer05> so to donate to community like they did with the rest, they would have had to cooperate since only together they completely own that mess
Jan 23 22:12:34 <DocScrutinizer05> that's the most plausible _real_ meaning behind "for differentiation purposes" in
Jan 23 22:12:37 <DocScrutinizer05> ~closed
Jan 23 22:12:37 <infobot> it has been said that closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages, or http://elinux.org/N900, or https://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo
Jan 23 22:14:09 <DocScrutinizer05> well, and "Legacy"
Jan 23 22:15:19 <DocScrutinizer05> lol, and "IPR & licensing issues: ", "Third party:", in http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages
Jan 23 22:16:47 <DocScrutinizer05> https://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo is more worthwhile read
Jan 23 22:37:25 <visionvirus> sounds like a meander, nokia and the developers did, then
Jan 23 22:40:18 <DocScrutinizer05> visionvirus: https://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo#SDK maybe a tiny bit interesting
Jan 23 22:41:15 <DocScrutinizer05> however, as said above, installing the SDK is a PITA, get the VM image instead, it's official and "free"
Jan 23 22:46:00 <DocScrutinizer05> In theory, yopu could even use "factory": the maemo build service associated to maemo-extras-devel
Jan 23 22:46:16 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Jan 23 22:47:08 <DocScrutinizer05> but I guess it's pointless without local build environment to first test the code
Jan 23 22:48:23 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not even sure if it still runs or did lock up a few years ago and nobody noticed
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 24 02:59:57 2021