**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 05 02:59:58 2010 Mar 05 05:52:53 OHAI Mar 05 06:06:13 morning Mar 05 06:18:44 the whole orange getting into meego thing just confirms we'll need something like my vendor social contract.. Mar 05 06:20:57 Stskeeps, you wont get it. Mar 05 06:21:21 Stskeeps, between the security framework stuff and the operator stuff we've already seen with Maemo 5. Mar 05 06:21:26 I don't see it happening. Mar 05 06:21:30 We need it, but it wont happen. Mar 05 06:22:32 GeneralAntilles: well, my ideas are a bit more low-level - and admittedly, it's only enforcable through a community agreeing not to bother with non-complying vendors Mar 05 06:22:53 Which is basically irrelevant. ;) Mar 05 06:33:27 Let's hope that meego.com lists/forums become somewhat tolerant of discussions regarding devices by friendly vendors Mar 05 06:37:49 ShadowJK personal opinion would be that MeeGo devices should have a place there Mar 05 06:38:19 but as said, just a personal opinion, no-one has really discussed that yet, as there are no devices. Mar 05 06:39:21 on a technical level making meego as useful and functional as possible will reduce the need for vendors to munge it Mar 05 06:39:31 but then there's the crippling out of pure malice that goes on too :-) Mar 05 06:40:08 ShadowJK, ha! Mar 05 06:40:11 * Stskeeps 's rather impressed to see qgil up at 5:40 and cleaning up N900 FUD Mar 05 06:40:30 It's all about getting the last cent out of your customer. Mar 05 06:40:40 Doesn't matter how useful or functional something is Mar 05 06:40:42 that's the end goal. Mar 05 06:40:43 Stskeeps that's why he has an N900 on him Mar 05 06:41:02 Stskeeps, same old noise. Mar 05 06:41:13 i wonder if we'll start seeing N900 rehab programmes in rehab institutions.. Mar 05 06:41:48 GeneralAntilles that's really oversimplifying a lot Mar 05 06:42:00 tekojo, which? Mar 05 06:42:08 For operator-customized firmwares? Mar 05 06:42:20 * GeneralAntilles has never seen one that INCREASES functionality. Mar 05 06:42:31 the goal for any company is to make a profit, that can be done in a variety of ways, but profit it has to be according to the rules Mar 05 06:43:00 Oh, operator firmware, they are an interesting phenomenon Mar 05 06:43:10 tekojo, the only thing operator customization serves to do is decrease functionality (the upsell and nickel'n'dime services) and funnel money towards the operator. Mar 05 06:43:26 Operators are going to hurt MeeGo Mar 05 06:43:32 they really do try to make a profit Mar 05 06:43:34 and Nokia and Intel are apparently going to let them do it. Mar 05 06:43:49 Operators just play with the same rules as everyone else in MeeGo Mar 05 06:43:51 It's all open Mar 05 06:43:57 tekojo, pfft Mar 05 06:44:03 hey, even Saunalahti in .fi are trying to sabotage the N900 by regulary sending operator settings for the WAP gateway (which doesn't work with N900) :-D Mar 05 06:44:05 if they contribute I'm all for it Mar 05 06:44:10 The user-facing front-end can be anything Mar 05 06:44:17 The security framework means they can lock you into whatever. Mar 05 06:44:34 It's GPLv2 for some reason. Mar 05 06:44:58 right, GPL was mentioned, time to go brew coffee Mar 05 06:44:59 GeneralAntilles, then don't buy from an operator? Mar 05 06:45:14 :) Mar 05 06:45:20 That's what I do and that's what my wife does... Mar 05 06:45:23 tekojo, that doesn't help the hordes of uninformed consumers out there Mar 05 06:45:34 Infrom the consumers then? Mar 05 06:45:35 What do they get when they buy a MeeGo-branded device that doesn't work? Mar 05 06:45:44 Yeah, something I'd love to see Nokia do. Mar 05 06:46:02 GeneralAntilles, amusingly I've seen an "educational" video made by Nokia USA about this issue :) Mar 05 06:46:04 Instead they're just keeping the status quo rolling. Mar 05 06:46:15 ShadowJK, I haven't, and there's the problem. Mar 05 06:46:24 * tekojo has a gut feeling that this is again some peculiar difference in the US - Europe operator market Mar 05 06:46:50 (if anybody wants to try blaming Nokia's failure as a company in the US on operators, they haven't had to deal with Nokia USA). Mar 05 06:47:32 tekojo, you're actually starting to see some of it in .fi too.. certain tariffs, and certain devices, are getting harder to find unbundled :) Mar 05 06:47:41 That sucks Mar 05 06:48:15 Usually it is easy to do the math of 24*random number > device price Mar 05 06:48:26 Like, before Nokia came out with the Nokia CS-15, it was actually kind hard to purchase a non-crappy 3g usb modem separately Mar 05 06:48:41 tekojo, in the US there's no difference. Mar 05 06:48:54 Unless you're an iPhone user (in which case you pay double for data) Mar 05 06:50:36 at least the iphone helped to get sane data plans Mar 05 06:50:46 Didn't change anything in the US. Mar 05 06:51:51 Anyway, in summary, I think Nokia's squandering an opportunity here (surprise, surprise) and it's going to end up hurting the brand. Mar 05 06:52:12 that said, the only operator customization i had in .dk wasn't evil as such, then again, i didn't know how it was without customization Mar 05 06:53:35 Ugh, 2 AM Mar 05 06:53:37 'night Mar 05 06:59:04 night Mar 05 07:06:58 Stskeeps, well if anyone tries to take away *my* N900 there'll be a bloodbath ;-) Mar 05 07:07:07 * ShadowJK suspects N900 rehab programs would be messy Mar 05 07:13:42 ShadowJK: probably much in spirit with that video Mar 05 07:13:55 indeed Mar 05 09:35:20 Morning, all Mar 05 09:55:52 morn Jaffa Mar 05 10:48:19 morning Mar 05 10:48:43 morn Mar 05 10:53:10 ing Mar 05 10:55:40 blurgh Mar 05 10:55:47 I second that notion Mar 05 12:38:41 when will downloads be finally available? Mar 05 13:19:56 hey, dead-tree computer magazine arrived in mail yesterday. It has mention of a company setting up a team of 40 devs to make apps for MeeGo :-) Mar 05 13:20:55 ShadowJK: details! Mar 05 13:21:09 not that exciting Mar 05 13:37:52 (I mean there weren't any details of what they were planning to do or what they have done in the past or anything like that= Mar 05 13:37:56 ) Mar 05 13:39:17 ShadowJK: name, location, link? Mar 05 13:51:01 "Sasken" Mar 05 13:56:32 ShadowJK, which mag? Mar 05 13:58:01 hello Mar 05 13:58:04 prosessori Mar 05 13:58:34 thanks, gotta check it out Mar 05 14:10:11 ShadowJK: Orange work on meego too Mar 05 14:55:52 will meego released in the end of this month? Mar 05 14:58:11 firegnu: The code is supposed to be yes. Whether or not that's a working distro is another matter. Mar 05 15:20:55 as said elsewhere, repo.meego.com seems available (though empty) Mar 05 16:17:15 At last, after about 10 months of effort, I've gotten some feedback from someone in Intel. Trying not to put the rant dial up to 11 Mar 05 16:19:57 slaine: Out of morbid curiosity, WHAT did you want the Intel to respond you about? Mar 05 16:21:35 the pentium bug Mar 05 16:21:53 f00f? =) Mar 05 16:21:57 rofl Mar 05 16:22:37 Early last year I was enquiring about how to become a Moblin OSV (i.e. package and sell Moblin as part of our overal products) Mar 05 16:22:56 I've been flat out ignored or bounced around Mar 05 16:23:00 slaine: Oh, that...Isn't it all GPLed? Mar 05 16:23:36 Yes, but funny how Novel, Dell etc. seemed to be able to ship customized versions before the GPL'd code was available. Mar 05 16:23:58 or rather, at the same time Mar 05 16:23:59 moblin isn't all gpled I think Mar 05 16:24:08 it seems double licensed Mar 05 16:24:12 slaine: AFAIK you can do whatever you want to GPLed stuff Mar 05 16:24:40 yeah, but I wasn't about to base our companies OS future on a platform with no publicly available roadmap Mar 05 16:24:48 slaine: If you actually want Intel to have ...mhmm... closer relationships with you, then arjan or some other OTC guy is the right point of contact Mar 05 16:25:38 There's only so much they're allowed to reveal Mar 05 16:25:50 I've had several excellent discussions with the Intel engineers Mar 05 16:26:11 slaine: They do not have to reveal anything. They have to refer your company to their manager, up the chain Mar 05 16:26:45 Who will consider if you are big enough to be worth having sex with and, if decision is positive, will refer you to Intel Legal Mar 05 16:26:58 yes and that's what I did Mar 05 16:27:07 and eventually got a reply last night Mar 05 16:27:12 See, it is a managerial decision of whether they will spend resources on you or not Mar 05 16:27:53 i think it's also because moblin has been under big change these months Mar 05 16:28:01 yes, we're a very small fish. so chances are nobody was bothered to follow up on things Mar 05 16:28:11 so they can't answer you before themselves have a clear roadmap Mar 05 16:28:25 This goes back to when 2.0 was in Alpha Mar 05 16:28:34 slaine: There are multiple factors contributing to the decision, not just your size Mar 05 16:28:57 slaine: Your prospects in terms of products sold and markets conquered also matter Mar 05 16:29:18 slaine: So, remember that when you make a pitch ;) Mar 05 16:29:24 and also your target device, i think. Mar 05 16:29:31 RST38h: thanks Mar 05 16:41:53 heya Mar 05 16:43:25 hey Mar 05 16:46:21 someone has already worked with gmenu-tree here? Mar 05 16:47:28 I need to retrieve icon's path with gmenu tree... Mar 05 16:47:44 After several edits, the responses rant dial was down below 4 I'd say Mar 05 16:53:35 sigh, there goes another member of the moblin community Mar 05 16:53:57 shedding users/devs awfully fast. Mar 05 17:01:04 Hello mi-go :) Mar 05 17:12:01 i have n900 i me Mar 05 17:12:49 meego runs a tad slow, anyone have any advice ? Mar 05 17:19:17 there is a meego release? Mar 05 17:20:02 probably not yet Mar 05 17:23:54 i've heard that they are going to try to get the repository for the source online by the end of the month... Mar 05 17:25:00 [17:12] meego runs a tad slow, anyone have any advice ? Mar 05 17:25:07 that's what'[s confused me Mar 05 17:28:48 he may be a developer with access the source now. i'm just guessing though Mar 05 17:29:53 hmm Mar 05 17:29:53 access to the* Mar 05 17:36:32 re all Mar 05 18:55:57 mlfoster: are you here? Mar 05 18:56:51 any translater? Mar 05 19:03:51 nope Mar 05 19:10:40 "N900 is a natural tool for Nokia to drive MeeGo support for our designs and for the ARM CPU architecture in general." Mar 05 19:11:12 "That said, please do not take this yet as a commitment to fully productise MeeGo on N900." Mar 05 19:15:36 tripzero, i.e., absolutely no new information. ;) Mar 05 19:16:01 right Mar 05 19:21:16 but at least some hope to run meego on n900 Mar 05 19:22:11 There was always hope Mar 05 19:22:17 This doesn't really help us at all Mar 05 19:22:25 It doesn't get us the Ovi Store Mar 05 19:22:31 It doesn't get us Ovi Maps with navigation Mar 05 19:22:38 it doesn't get us any of Nokia's differentiation Mar 05 19:22:48 Hell, it really doesn't get us much farther than Mer gets us now. Mar 05 19:23:03 Which without some more people to write statusbar applets and control panels isn't very far at all. Mar 05 19:24:09 good points. Mar 05 19:24:50 polac, keep expectations low and you wont be disappointed. ;) Mar 05 19:24:58 and you never know, you may be pleasantly surprised! Mar 05 19:25:14 * CosmoHill would like to give meego a try on his laptop Mar 05 19:25:42 maybe this way then: at least some hope to run meego before first actual device on my n900 Mar 05 19:26:04 polac, no more or less than there was before the announcement. ;) Mar 05 19:26:30 MeeGo seems open enough and the N900 is open enough that that's a reasonably easy thing for the community to achieve. Mar 05 19:26:40 It's not yet clear what it actually means, though. Mar 05 19:26:59 The reference UIs are the worrying part. Mar 05 19:27:35 MeeGo seems to enforce less platform consistency (top to bottom) than would be ideal. Mar 05 19:28:20 okay, so you do not get excited too easily. i get that. :) Mar 05 19:28:47 I think the expectation that hardware vendors would supply most of the UI is tempering that Mar 05 19:29:15 and why am I typing on my phone when VNC is open Mar 05 19:30:14 Evening, javispedro, by the way. Mar 05 19:30:20 GeneralAntilles, btw. Is it possible that I remember you from the times I playd with my new n770 Mar 05 19:30:39 evening GAN. Mar 05 19:30:42 polac, very. Mar 05 19:30:48 and everyone :) Mar 05 19:32:14 moo javis Mar 05 19:32:36 GeneralAntilles, I believe that you helped me back then with something important. :) I have been away for sometime. meego brought me back. :) Mar 05 19:36:26 your opinion: would it be easier to change my desktop distro to rh or suse considering meego developing. i mean because rpm and obs and what else technologies that come from those distros. Mar 05 19:38:42 Doubtful Mar 05 19:38:59 The tooling should be abstracting that all away Mar 05 19:39:08 * GeneralAntilles is the wrong person to ask, though. Mar 05 19:40:58 so, let's be patient and wait for more info. Mar 05 19:49:02 die bitch Mar 05 22:53:56 Hi! Mar 05 22:54:33 hey Mar 05 22:54:51 what means this Mar 05 22:54:52 Will MeeGo use telepathy? Mar 05 22:54:52 Yes. MeeGo will use telepathy Mar 05 22:57:36 ... Mar 05 23:02:06 xx1182: it means Meego devices can be used to read minds? :) Mar 05 23:03:19 I don't know i've readed the faq Mar 05 23:03:42 *read Mar 05 23:10:01 xx1182, telepathy is an Instant Messenger Framework Mar 06 00:31:56 cyas **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Mar 06 02:59:57 2010