**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 08 02:59:57 2010 Mar 08 05:15:46 whats "CTCP VERSION" Mar 08 05:15:48 ? Mar 08 05:16:34 hello!?! Mar 08 05:17:41 hello there Mar 08 05:22:01 hello. Mar 08 05:22:38 morn Mar 08 05:28:39 hi there Mar 08 05:57:07 qgil: from your mailing list post, it seems that a MeeGo-website list needs to be created and a website team to be made. this could be the first tangible team since changes to the site could be made effective immediately as every other project is still in a holding pattern Mar 08 05:58:08 daumas: meego-community has been created for that purpose. Mar 08 06:00:30 jaffa: that's a very loose definition of that list then. Mar 08 06:01:08 daumas: I'm actually waiting for the forum... Mar 08 06:01:59 with mailing lists and any online channel, in principle I'm more for using whatever exists until the is a proof that the current channel is too tight and a new one is needed Mar 08 06:02:45 daumas: Over fragmentation when stuff is low-volume is counter-productive IME Mar 08 08:06:57 help Mar 08 08:28:41 no topic? Mar 08 08:29:35 I can see it. Mar 08 09:19:55 "Orange adds 200,000 widgets to its platform" Mar 08 09:20:01 http://www.rethink-wireless.com/2010/03/05/orange-adds-200000-widgets-mass-market-software-platform.htm Mar 08 09:20:12 I wonder what this means from a technical point of view Mar 08 09:20:35 it's all Javascript apparently, so... Mar 08 09:48:48 qgil, that is crazy! Mar 08 09:59:33 zaheerm: probably ;) Mar 08 10:00:07 qgil, i'm sure a few of the 200,000 would be doing useful stuff however ;) Mar 08 10:00:15 but this is a crazy world, so this is why I'm wondering Mar 08 13:51:50 where is mutter-moblin&&mx in http://git.moblin.org/? they are gone...... Mar 08 13:52:23 anyone help me? Mar 08 16:16:32 heya Mar 08 16:17:16 lo th0br0 Mar 08 16:17:33 haya Stskeeps Mar 08 16:21:04 will meego require ssse3 optimisation? Mar 08 16:21:36 require? unlikely. Mar 08 16:21:45 i don't think arm supports ssse3 Mar 08 16:22:06 i was thinking ssse3 for x86 / x86_64 Mar 08 16:22:29 I don't really know anything about ARM but I'd imagine it has it's own optimisations Mar 08 16:22:39 hell oCosmoHill, if meego is like moblin, yes Mar 08 16:23:01 if not i get a debian............ Mar 08 16:23:07 hehe Mar 08 16:23:28 if i understand it i think meego 1 will be moblin 2.2 core with meanmo 6 UI Mar 08 16:23:39 i hope so Mar 08 16:23:55 wait and see... Mar 08 16:24:16 if there is a version without SSSE3 requirments it could be used on older desktops / laptop computers Mar 08 16:24:52 moblinSuse or ubuntu Mar 08 16:25:12 i tried ubuntu mobin, it didn't go well Mar 08 16:25:47 :/ too slow at boot ... i know Mar 08 16:26:00 doesn't help that i have nvidia Mar 08 16:26:39 arf ok .. Mar 08 16:27:02 i wonder, is it possible to grab all the src.rpm files and recompile them for something else Mar 08 16:27:15 say instead of ssse3 you compile for a intel P3 Mar 08 16:27:19 or i686 Mar 08 16:31:20 i need to have a go at LFS 6.6 at some point Mar 08 16:31:36 will meego's calendar finally be able to sync with google calendar ? Mar 08 16:42:44 i think i've just found the old ubunutu font Mar 08 16:48:08 CosmoHill, it works even better because older laptops have lower res screens Mar 08 16:48:39 Meego, great for netbooks, even better on craptops Mar 08 16:49:05 it will be if a build for pentium m based chipsets is done Mar 08 16:49:20 otherwise those same devices will just be continuing with ubuntu Mar 08 16:52:07 i was thinking maybe meego ppc Mar 08 16:58:05 oh that's right, i have a mouse plugged into my laptop Mar 08 17:22:38 for me, moving to nokia is like moving to vim Mar 08 17:22:55 first few hours are spent swearing at it until you figure out how to use it Mar 08 17:24:52 CosmoHill: haha, it was that way for me when I first got my E71...then you love it :) Mar 08 17:25:20 I've always been an SE man myself Mar 08 17:25:40 only phone I know where you throw it at a wall and the wall is worse off Mar 08 17:26:01 I'm getting used to mine Mar 08 17:26:10 not sure if I'll stick with it or go back to my k800i Mar 08 17:27:21 I really love my N900 Mar 08 17:27:38 especially the older it gets, the more features are added/fixed Mar 08 17:27:40 i have a 6220c Mar 08 17:27:45 though, i still VERY much miss my MMS :( Mar 08 17:28:26 fMMS, no? Mar 08 17:28:40 i never use it so I'm good Mar 08 17:28:51 I text and make the odd phone call Mar 08 17:29:07 oh btw i have lectures tomorrow, how do I put a nokia on silent? Mar 08 17:30:09 only reason I got this phone was cos dad dropped it in water Mar 08 17:30:17 thresh: it's a long drawn out process that I have yet to get to work... Mar 08 17:49:16 cosmohill: long press # Mar 08 17:50:04 thanks Mar 08 17:50:17 cos if that goes off in lession I probably won't notice it's mine Mar 08 18:23:54 hi Mar 08 18:24:03 has anyone used hildon_gtk_window_set_progress_indicator? Mar 08 19:00:25 Any code yet? Mar 08 19:00:37 nop, but i have beer Mar 08 19:01:07 I want one :D Mar 08 19:03:05 two, I want two Mar 08 19:03:16 * Stskeeps passes around beers Mar 08 19:04:23 beer... Mar 08 19:04:41 nope, that's not a good idea. i need to get to work tommorow Mar 08 19:26:15 anyone in #maemo too? Mar 08 19:26:28 I can't send any messages in there for some reason Mar 08 19:40:10 benbrown, /msg nickserv register (passsword) (email) Mar 08 19:40:55 (why do we still have that setting btw?) Mar 08 19:47:07 antispam? Mar 08 19:47:38 well, yes, but it doesn't help matters either :P Mar 08 19:50:29 true Mar 08 19:55:19 * CosmoHill flails for no apparent reason Mar 08 19:58:26 in 2 hours and 10 mins my server will have been online for 100 days :) Mar 08 20:14:21 Stskeeps, there was another round last night, I think. Mar 08 20:19:10 Stskeeps: i dont know why i did get a beer, but i will drink it, sure Mar 08 20:19:57 hehe Mar 08 20:20:36 I wanted to say: Hi Stskeeps, cheers Mar 08 20:29:14 i read something interesting today, power and RAM comsuption of desktop enviroments Mar 08 20:29:50 link us up to it Mar 08 20:30:05 hi Mar 08 20:30:07 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_desktop_vitals&num=1 Mar 08 20:30:53 still no new of meego image availability ? Mar 08 20:31:08 i think it's expected in Q2 or Q3 Mar 08 20:31:27 ok Mar 08 20:31:30 CosmoHill: Nothing surprising there Mar 08 20:31:55 still no nvidia enabled moblin image ? :s Mar 08 20:32:00 nope Mar 08 20:32:10 there will never be nvidia on moblin Mar 08 20:32:18 there might be nvidia on meego tho.... Mar 08 20:33:26 and no poulsbo for moblin ? :/ Mar 08 20:39:37 poulsbo? Mar 08 20:39:58 gma 500 Mar 08 20:40:20 one of the main intel gpu embedded in netbook Mar 08 20:40:38 there is virtually no driver on linux for it :/ Mar 08 20:42:53 (and windows drivers sucks too) Mar 08 20:49:39 IPv6? :o Mar 08 20:51:25 ipv6 ? Mar 08 20:51:56 [20:48] * Vudentz (~vudentz@2001:4830:2446:ff00:214:51ff:fe65:c65c) has joined #meego Mar 08 20:52:30 a few ISP have switched to ipv6 already Mar 08 20:52:36 but not enough ISP :/ Mar 08 20:52:38 ours haven't :( Mar 08 20:52:55 my ISP told me to upgrade from router v3 to v5 Mar 08 20:53:13 like i should upgrade from a BMW 3 series to a 5 series Mar 08 20:53:19 IPv6 exhausts by the end of next year Mar 08 20:53:29 ? Mar 08 20:53:30 Mobile operators are requiring manufacturers to support it Mar 08 20:53:34 ipv4 you mean Mar 08 20:53:37 I mean, IPv4 exhausts Mar 08 20:53:38 yes Mar 08 20:53:42 mo, we need ipv12 already Mar 08 20:53:53 mo>no Mar 08 20:56:04 * thiago_home is in a couple of panels inside Nokia discussing IPv6 Mar 08 20:56:21 they don't understand that Qt has been ready since 2005... Mar 08 20:56:39 i think most mobile operators use a proxy Mar 08 20:57:28 hi Mar 08 20:57:31 most operators still give you public IPs Mar 08 20:57:43 the question they're facing is: what will they do when they don't have IPs to assign anymore? Mar 08 20:57:48 mine are 10.x.x.x Mar 08 20:57:53 blame the iphones users, obviously Mar 08 20:58:05 + & Mar 08 20:58:07 * thiago_home always gets public IPs on the gprs0 interface on his N900 Mar 08 20:58:13 i see no reason why a mobile phone would need a public ip address Mar 08 20:58:19 i do Mar 08 20:58:26 RTSP from external sources, for instance Mar 08 20:58:27 I see no reason why they wouldn't give you an address Mar 08 20:58:30 if they have it Mar 08 20:58:34 RTSP? Mar 08 20:58:35 sip stuff, too. Mar 08 20:58:45 everything that's not really NAT-ready Mar 08 20:58:45 they're ISPs after all Mar 08 20:58:50 friends, i need advice Mar 08 20:59:07 i have offered job as in nokia as testing in meomo grp but i think it is merging with meego grp Mar 08 20:59:26 and anyway, it's easier and cheapier to route than NAT :/ Mar 08 20:59:36 awhanbiz: there's no MeeGo group inside Nokia. It's still called Maemo Devices. Mar 08 20:59:53 what do u think future of meomo/meego grp? Mar 08 20:59:54 we have a couple more months until the next reorganisation Mar 08 20:59:59 * thiago_home expects it by the end of this year Mar 08 21:00:10 hopefully it will grow and thrive :-) Mar 08 21:00:24 hopefully...hmm Mar 08 21:00:46 actually i m worried cause it doesn't have that many devices or maturity Mar 08 21:01:01 what would you do? Symbian? Mar 08 21:01:15 yes, it has only one device, so far. Mar 08 21:01:16 fresher--just out of college Mar 08 21:01:22 I can't tell you the roadmap of upcoming devices. Mar 08 21:01:29 awhanbiz: i think meomo and meego will join together to form the moomin group Mar 08 21:01:35 k Mar 08 21:01:48 Stskeeps: now why didn't they pick that up as a brand? :-P Mar 08 21:01:54 think..so that means roadmap is still under consideration Mar 08 21:02:00 thiago_home: it would make for awesome mascots Mar 08 21:02:17 agreed..hehe Mar 08 21:03:12 anyway, so after merging--is their scope for growth career wise? Mar 08 21:03:57 it's intel and nokia getting in bed together to form meego along with a lot of other company contributors, doesn't it sound like it? Mar 08 21:03:58 or will it more of patching job? Mar 08 21:04:00 :P Mar 08 21:04:57 :) Mar 08 21:05:09 i hope bed is big enough Mar 08 21:05:34 Stskeeps: I have a moomin in my office Mar 08 21:05:49 along with a Konqi, a Norwegian troll and a fish Mar 08 21:06:33 i just collect maemo.org related tshirts :P Mar 08 21:07:52 Stskeeps: take a look at the hostnames that 87.238.50.178 through 182 resolve to :-) Mar 08 21:08:31 hehe :) Mar 08 21:09:38 hufsa is www.qt.nokia.com and lillemy is labs.qt.nokia.com Mar 08 21:16:45 Stskeeps, you ever get an original one? Mar 08 21:17:29 i have two redshirts, a maemo.org from amsterdam and a FiF one :P Mar 08 21:17:48 be careful with redshirts Mar 08 21:17:59 people wearing them always die in Star Trek Mar 08 21:18:14 yeah :P Mar 08 21:19:42 which fits well to the Mer members wearing them ;) Mar 08 21:19:49 Mar 08 21:20:07 * lbt reconsiders wardrobe for thursda Mar 08 21:20:09 hehe Mar 08 21:20:21 i'm saving my second red shirt for wednesday night :) Mar 08 21:21:15 right now I'm wondering why I get a BUG when I start icedove... Mar 08 21:34:10 Can somone try to help me with configuring moblin? Mar 08 21:35:24 whatcha need configured? Mar 08 21:38:18 I want to make an auto install of moblin ! Mar 08 21:38:31 like no human interaction to install it on a plaform Mar 08 21:38:40 do you know if it is possible ? Mar 08 21:40:42 you installing it on muliple identical devices/ Mar 08 21:42:33 yes Mar 08 21:42:41 totally identical Mar 08 21:45:24 well moblin basically installs an image and then changes some configuration files and installs a boot loader Mar 08 21:45:41 my advice would be to install moblin on one computer, configure it the way you want and installl the updates Mar 08 21:46:25 create a img of the first computer's hard drive / SSD then copy the image onto the other computers Mar 08 21:47:15 basicly, it would be intalling it on one computer and then DD the disk and re DD-it on another computer ? Mar 08 21:48:27 moblin uses anaconda for the installer Mar 08 21:48:33 all the choices can be automated Mar 08 21:48:50 so you can modify the existing ISO and add auto-choices to the installer Mar 08 21:49:51 ok.. Mar 08 21:49:59 I'll look up those possiblity Mar 08 21:50:40 I've got another little question, how small can be moblin with X, a base window manager ( I packaged Fluxbox for the pupose of it ) and OO.O Mar 08 21:50:45 current I"m at 1.5 GB Mar 08 21:50:51 I find this a little bit big Mar 08 21:51:08 but there is not realy anything that I can strip out since it more or less depended on dependencys... Mar 08 21:54:21 www.search2.net (new search engine) Mar 08 22:59:12 who's learning C++? Mar 08 22:59:20 name begins with D i think Mar 08 23:01:04 www.search2.net (new search engine) Mar 08 23:01:15 die bitch Mar 08 23:05:05 http://black-flag.co.uk/wordpress/2010/03/08/a-simple-cpp-program/ Mar 08 23:11:23 [23:01] die bitch Mar 08 23:11:29 it was made to die Mar 08 23:11:43 does that mean my statement is correct? Mar 08 23:11:49 lol Mar 08 23:11:53 I guess Mar 08 23:11:57 ^.^ Mar 08 23:14:11 * CosmoHill enables comments on his article Mar 08 23:14:17 what do you guys think about it btw? Mar 08 23:15:59 CosmoHill: the name of the language is c++. not cpp and not cxx. Mar 08 23:17:39 MisterN: actually, the name is C Plus Plus :) Mar 08 23:17:49 no Mar 08 23:18:14 the file extention is .cpp .c++ or .cxx Mar 08 23:18:26 CosmoHill: or .C in case sensitive filesystems Mar 08 23:18:30 CosmoHill: or .cc or .C or... Mar 08 23:18:34 yeah, .cc Mar 08 23:18:41 forgot about that one Mar 08 23:18:43 stop confusing me Mar 08 23:18:46 CosmoHill: the file extension is not what defines the language name. Mar 08 23:18:52 I've yet to see .c++ in any real use Mar 08 23:19:06 the name of c++ is c++, nothing else. Mar 08 23:19:13 C++. capital C Mar 08 23:19:15 ;p Mar 08 23:19:25 haha yeah :P Mar 08 23:19:33 cpp is for c pre processor actually Mar 08 23:19:40 and cxx is for c++ Mar 08 23:19:44 fail. Mar 08 23:19:51 VLJ: .cpp is not for c preprocessor Mar 08 23:19:53 the C preprocessor is .i Mar 08 23:19:53 (x is + with a slight rotation) Mar 08 23:19:56 VLJ: c++ is the app name Mar 08 23:20:07 p is for + because some file systems don't support + Mar 08 23:20:08 not cxx Mar 08 23:20:18 AstralStorm: "app name"? Mar 08 23:20:19 so what is cxx for ? Mar 08 23:20:28 the C preprocessor's executable is cpp Mar 08 23:20:29 if we're talking Unix-style at least Mar 08 23:20:34 preprocessor's, yeah Mar 08 23:20:36 the C++ executable is c++ or CC Mar 08 23:20:37 yep Mar 08 23:20:39 or cxx Mar 08 23:20:45 usually c++ or cc Mar 08 23:20:49 VLJ: cxx is also a work-around Mar 08 23:20:51 cc is the C compiler Mar 08 23:20:52 cxx I've yet to see, again :) Mar 08 23:20:55 CC is the C++ compiler Mar 08 23:20:59 ayup Mar 08 23:21:02 ccplus too Mar 08 23:21:08 but again, no compiler I've seen uses those Mar 08 23:21:14 cmake Mar 08 23:21:17 cc1plus Mar 08 23:21:18 some compilers are named cl Mar 08 23:21:21 * thiago has seen cc and CC Mar 08 23:21:22 and cmake is no compiler Mar 08 23:21:30 but that's libtool name Mar 08 23:21:32 MisterN: yes, and those compilers are usually from Microsoft Mar 08 23:21:34 not executable name Mar 08 23:21:38 in fact for cmake cpp is for pre processor, cxx is for c++ Mar 08 23:21:56 in macro name Mar 08 23:21:57 VLJ: cxx does. not. exist. in M$VC, ICC, GCC or Solaris compiler Mar 08 23:21:57 VLJ: no, cmake recognises .cpp as the file extension for c++ Mar 08 23:21:58 so? Mar 08 23:22:18 VLJ: so, which system has a compiler that's called with cxx? Mar 08 23:22:19 yep but if you does use CPP_FLAGS it wont pass these flags to g++ Mar 08 23:22:35 you need CXX_FLAGS Mar 08 23:22:55 CXXFLAGS are the C++ compiler flags, CPPFLAGS are the preprocessor flags, but no one uses that Mar 08 23:22:56 that's cmake-specific Mar 08 23:23:01 usually it's just CFLAGS and DEFINES Mar 08 23:23:05 CPPFLAGS are used for includes Mar 08 23:23:09 and library paths Mar 08 23:23:16 (the latter more rarely) Mar 08 23:23:18 library paths are LFLAGS Mar 08 23:23:21 LDFLAGS. Mar 08 23:23:32 quirks :) Mar 08 23:23:32 yeah, that's more often used for them Mar 08 23:23:44 unless you like to use the compiler for linking Mar 08 23:23:48 which is supposed to work too Mar 08 23:24:04 you never invoke the linker directly, except in the Microsoft world Mar 08 23:24:05 most compilers do not do linking Mar 08 23:24:13 you always use the compiler front-end for launching the linking Mar 08 23:24:15 thiago: wrong. you can and even should Mar 08 23:24:26 but you don't have to :) Mar 08 23:24:35 thiago: gcc is more than a compiler ;) Mar 08 23:24:38 anyway, nobody cares Mar 08 23:24:39 AstralStorm: so you're supposed to know where the C, C++ libs and runtimes are? Mar 08 23:24:45 MisterN: no, it's c++ standard Mar 08 23:24:50 AstralStorm: what's the difference between crt1.o and crti.o? Mar 08 23:24:58 AstralStorm: ? Mar 08 23:25:05 thiago: no, linker is smart enough Mar 08 23:25:15 giving it object files and proper flags is enough Mar 08 23:25:19 I don't think it is Mar 08 23:25:24 of course it is Mar 08 23:25:29 how is the linker going to find crt1.o if I don't tell it where it is? Mar 08 23:25:36 because you don't have to :) Mar 08 23:25:53 it's POSIX to be /lib/crt1.o Mar 08 23:25:54 LD_LIBRARY_PATH Mar 08 23:26:12 but of course that's why nobody sane uses ld directly Mar 08 23:26:15 $ ld -o a.out main.o Mar 08 23:26:15 ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol _start; defaulting to 0000000008048074 Mar 08 23:26:21 they either use libtool or autotools Mar 08 23:26:32 thiago: ... I told you don't have to FIND the file Mar 08 23:26:42 because it's mandated by POSIX to be in the specific place Mar 08 23:26:46 :) Mar 08 23:26:53 $ ld -o a.out main.o /lib/crt1.o Mar 08 23:26:53 ld: /lib/crt1.o: No such file: No such file or directory Mar 08 23:27:04 crt0.o actually Mar 08 23:27:22 $ locate crt0.o | wc -l Mar 08 23:27:22 0 Mar 08 23:27:24 oh, your system hates you for being too anal ;) Mar 08 23:27:44 POSIX.1 is dead, POSIX.2001 lives Mar 08 23:27:53 actually, 2008 lives Mar 08 23:27:55 yeah Mar 08 23:27:57 anyway Mar 08 23:28:02 not playing with ld is fine Mar 08 23:28:30 (I bet it's in /usr/lib) Mar 08 23:28:34 it is Mar 08 23:28:39 but it's also not enough Mar 08 23:28:45 heh Mar 08 23:28:54 so, let's leave ld alone and use libtool? Mar 08 23:29:07 or compiler directly in good old makefiles Mar 08 23:29:20 you know libtool also runs gcc/g++, right? Mar 08 23:29:27 not in link mode Mar 08 23:29:40 will I have to go prove it to you? Mar 08 23:29:57 no. it *can* run gcc/g++ Mar 08 23:30:09 let's do it the other way around now. Please show me libtool running directly, not via gcc/g++. Mar 08 23:30:10 linker: /usr/bin/ld -m elf_x86_64 (gnu? yes) Mar 08 23:30:20 guess why it wants that :) Mar 08 23:30:27 it uses the linker indeed Mar 08 23:30:30 huh? Mar 08 23:30:58 libtool --mode=link link whatever Mar 08 23:31:06 I forgot how libtool works temporarily Mar 08 23:31:28 * thiago should stop wasting his time Mar 08 23:31:56 or libtool link (if you hate --mode) Mar 08 23:32:14 I actually hate libtool Mar 08 23:32:21 not just you Mar 08 23:32:38 * AstralStorm goes back to coding in languages that don't need any linking Mar 08 23:49:32 so what did you guys thing of that guide? Mar 09 00:28:30 horrible, that guide Mar 09 00:28:35 "mutators", first ever Mar 09 00:28:54 it's called an accessor too Mar 09 00:29:14 and bad reasons for accessors Mar 09 00:29:59 if you want to do a guide to object orientation, do mention encapsulation and what it's for (also, when it's useful and why properties are fun - offered by boost for example) Mar 09 00:30:19 oh, he's not here :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 09 02:59:58 2010