**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 26 02:59:57 2010 Mar 26 06:21:52 http://www.itworld.com/open-source/101641/open-source-not-democracy?source=smlynch seems quite good in the MeeGo context Mar 26 06:28:54 This sounds like pointless argumentation Mar 26 06:29:32 DE FACTO the project is controlled by the guy who has commit rights to CVS and the guy who pays money to the first guy and so on Mar 26 06:29:56 So, all these long arguments about WHY open source is not a democracy and so on and so forth are futile Mar 26 06:30:28 In fact, we do not need to go very far. Consider maemo.org. Who controls maemo.org? ;) **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 26 13:06:14 2010 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 26 13:09:37 2010 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 26 13:12:14 2010 Mar 26 17:15:47 duh what happened to the old furnet channels like feral dragon Mar 26 17:19:13 PredAlien: A good question, really... my guess would be some of them moved to anthrochat... i still hang mostly on furnet, though :) One thing, however - i fail to see how this has any reference to MeeGo ;) Mar 26 17:20:35 thanks for the advice leinir Mar 26 17:20:50 what kinda name is that anyways Mar 26 17:21:45 MeeGo? Well, it's the sort of name that happens when two very, very large companies panic as they realise a week before an announcement of a project that they've not got a trademarkable name for it ;) Mar 26 17:22:16 oh good the snowing lightened up Mar 26 17:22:18 when a daddy Intel and mommy Nokia love each other very very much... Mar 26 17:23:13 Myrtti: *giggles* Indeed ;) Mar 26 17:24:21 don't even go to the birds and the bees thing sheesh Mar 26 17:25:29 ♬♪ birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it. Let's do it... LET'S FALL IN LOVE ♬♪ Mar 26 17:25:37 erm. yeah. Mar 26 17:27:03 * GAN900 sighs at the MeeGo council thread. Mar 26 17:27:06 well i'm not gonna do it i'm staying single Mar 26 17:27:19 I'll believe it when I see it. . . . Mar 26 17:28:57 well i'm outta here gonna see what everyone's talking about on anthrochat peace out Mar 26 17:29:44 *opens shadow gate from kingdom hearts 2 & leaves site Mar 26 17:31:01 ...random :) Mar 26 17:31:58 yeah, very random. Gotta love irc :) Mar 26 17:32:15 *giggles* Indeed :) Mar 26 18:19:58 Who is the list maintainer for meego-dev/meego-community ? Mar 26 18:23:10 colonelqubit: M. Shaver Mar 26 18:36:07 colonelqubit: I've removed the user that was sending messages to the list about not getting messages if that's what you're getting at. Mar 26 18:39:29 DawnFoster: from all the lists? Mar 26 18:39:39 yes. Mar 26 18:40:05 initially, just the one, but after the second message I removed them from all of the others. Mar 26 18:40:08 okidokie :) Mar 26 18:40:14 wasn't sure you saw the second Mar 26 18:42:39 DawnFoster: Thanks. I emailed the owner last night as the person emailed me back personally yesterdya Mar 26 18:43:21 colonelqubit: thanks. I'm not sure how they ended up on the list in the first place (prank maybe) Mar 26 18:43:44 they seemed a bit clueless about the whole process Mar 26 18:55:18 coming from Ubuntu surroundings I find it a bit weird that the community council for Maemo (and the suggestions for the Meego one) is for one year with all the council members being shuffled over every year unless they choose to run for a second term. Mar 26 18:57:36 but I guess there's some logic in the term length that I just fail to notice Mar 26 19:25:27 does meego specify any search engine / file tracker on its architecture ? e.g. gnome Tracker Mar 26 19:26:01 It should hardly matter, if the backend supports SPARQL Mar 26 19:50:48 hello Mar 26 19:52:16 hello Mar 26 19:53:14 how is ig gooing with the meego project? i suspect that there have happend alot more then what the homepage says.. Mar 26 21:35:39 * Stskeeps yawns Mar 26 21:36:45 are we boring you, stskeeps? Mar 26 21:37:04 nah, tired after a long day of hacking :) Mar 26 21:40:43 even though i'll bet i'll wake up at 6 tomorrow morning and feel like hacking :P Mar 26 21:41:54 at least it's a productive obsession :) Mar 26 21:45:14 evening all Mar 26 21:45:30 evening lbt Mar 26 21:45:46 hi Dawn Mar 26 21:46:24 * lbt prods Carsten to be sociable and say "hi" Mar 26 21:47:11 spent a day looking at QA integration around the OBS Mar 26 21:47:34 I'm really looking forward to seeing some of that infrastructure out there Mar 26 21:48:10 Stskeeps: any news on day 1? Mar 26 21:48:10 lbt, in bed by now and hi :P Mar 26 21:48:27 they announced a date in tsg meeting Mar 26 21:48:30 i think Mar 26 21:48:47 ah, I musta missed that Mar 26 21:49:08 end of month is approaching so :P Mar 26 21:49:21 indeed ... next wednesday is the deadline... Mar 26 21:50:10 Denise wants to make sure you tell Bogna she likes the chocs/mallow/vanilla? Mar 26 21:50:56 anyhow - talk to you tomorrow... 'night Mar 26 22:10:27 X-Fade: ping Mar 26 22:13:26 :( low battery, wtf Mar 26 22:16:18 DawnFoster: any thoughts on http://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_a_Repository_working_group Mar 26 22:18:28 lbt: on the working groups in general, I'm waiting on the TSG to define the overall MeeGo project structure to see what elements are included in the main project before I can really think about whether we need separate working groups. Mar 26 22:18:53 kind of like the decision at the last TSG that localization is a key part of the project and not a separate working group Mar 26 22:19:00 sure... don't worry about whether it's a WG or something else at this point Mar 26 22:19:36 right now I'm just trying to consolidate thoughts/scope Mar 26 22:20:22 nb... since Meego is "all community" then how does being a "key part" differ from being a "WG" ? Mar 26 22:20:42 I thought the WGs were a mechanism to be inclusive...? Mar 26 22:21:27 the decision to make the localisation - note localised spelling ;) - a "key part" seems to disenfranchise community people a little. Mar 26 22:21:36 I think it's a structural / semantic difference Mar 26 22:21:53 community members will be heavily involved in the core project Mar 26 22:22:06 we don't need working groups to get community people involved. Mar 26 22:22:23 this is a key difference between the way Maemo and Moblin have operated. Mar 26 22:22:30 agreed - I had expected that that inclusion would come by membership of a 'group who are interested in' Mar 26 22:22:53 and I thought the WGs would be similar to "hang around here to discuss X" Mar 26 22:23:08 right now there's no meeting points Mar 26 22:23:32 and when the l8n people say "lets meet" and the TSG say "no don't" .... hmmm Mar 26 22:23:56 I suspect it will be more of a meritocracy - less about people who are interested in and more about people who are actively contributing Mar 26 22:24:04 (I know they didn't stop them meeting ... but they sure damped it down) Mar 26 22:24:27 OK - so even us "doers" need to talk to others Mar 26 22:24:27 I don't think the TSG wants them to stop meeting Mar 26 22:24:40 (I know really, it's a minor critique) Mar 26 22:24:52 but it is a perception thing Mar 26 22:25:35 having key community members is a core part of the project sounds *more* inclusive to me than having them as an informal working group Mar 26 22:25:40 is=as Mar 26 22:26:01 mmm Mar 26 22:26:14 all of the same people are doing the same things, but as an official part of the project. Mar 26 22:26:15 the WGs are not "informal" though... Mar 26 22:26:33 they are kinda official... since they are seeking blessing Mar 26 22:26:37 Yeah, there is a certain fomality with the working groups that I like Mar 26 22:26:42 like I said earlier, semantics Mar 26 22:26:49 They have a sort of mission, a sort of charter Mar 26 22:27:09 nonetheless the semantics seemed to stop the l8n people from having a meeting point Mar 26 22:27:17 I'm just saying that we should hold off on the working groups until we see what the project structure looks like Mar 26 22:27:23 and I merely use them as an example... Mar 26 22:27:28 then we can see what working groups we need to fill in the gaps Mar 26 22:27:34 What do you mean by "project structure"? Mar 26 22:27:37 but if this is a community project Mar 26 22:27:51 then the project structure starts with these WGs Mar 26 22:27:57 and evolves Mar 26 22:27:58 it was discussed in the last tsg meeting Mar 26 22:28:02 (and is shaped) Mar 26 22:28:13 Yeah, Nokia and Intel need to loosen the reins here a bit. Mar 26 22:28:14 no, it was disseminated Mar 26 22:28:16 not discussed Mar 26 22:28:19 :) Mar 26 22:28:39 the code repositories will be available next week Mar 26 22:28:45 jeremiah_: will happen, as soon as there's a momentum Mar 26 22:28:51 people will be encouraged to submit and contribute to the project. Mar 26 22:28:51 Awesome. :-) Mar 26 22:29:11 those that contribute great stuff will rise to commit / maintainer levels Mar 26 22:29:23 just like every other good open source project Mar 26 22:29:35 Still, I'd like formal approval for the debian working group Mar 26 22:29:45 gah... Mar 26 22:29:49 ADSL went down Mar 26 22:29:52 why? Mar 26 22:29:58 you're going to do it anyway, right? Mar 26 22:30:09 what do you expect to gain from having a WG that you wouldn't otherwise? Mar 26 22:30:22 But it is important that the code sharing is seen as co-operative, not a fork Mar 26 22:30:43 yes Mar 26 22:30:57 don't take me the wrong way. I'm trying to help you. Mar 26 22:31:07 I understand :) Mar 26 22:31:09 you're saying that there can be no code sharing without a WG? Mar 26 22:31:13 * thiago_home hopes it's not Mar 26 22:31:18 I hope I'm not taking it the wrong way :) Mar 26 22:31:34 No, your point is valid: it's all GPL so what is the big deal? Mar 26 22:31:41 right Mar 26 22:31:57 heh Mar 26 22:32:03 what is it that you need from a WG? Mar 26 22:32:20 badges! Mar 26 22:32:24 But I think if we can get a commitment from MeeGo that official code sharing, dedicating some server space, that will attract devs Mar 26 22:32:25 do you need a place in the website so that people know who to contact and contribute? Mar 26 22:32:34 * thiago_home hopes that doesn't need a WG Mar 26 22:32:34 That would be nice Mar 26 22:32:45 DawnFoster: I guess I'm trying to point out the areas I perceive as being 'off' and being constructive to make sure they are presented in a way that minimises flames Mar 26 22:32:59 thiago_home: they need access to the OBS Mar 26 22:33:01 ah, server space for hosting the Debian repositories Mar 26 22:33:05 I just think having a formal declaration gives us something to point to when push comes to shove Mar 26 22:33:08 frankly Mar 26 22:33:11 ok, put that in the propsal Mar 26 22:33:35 that _might_ be a reason for a WG, so that they can formally vet the use of hardware resources Mar 26 22:34:05 lbt: I think it's hard to tell what's working / not until we can get people looking at the code Mar 26 22:34:11 thiago_home: Exactly! Mar 26 22:34:13 Good point Mar 26 22:34:15 DawnFoster: fwiw, while I understand there are some special circumstances due to trying to bootstrap a project rather than it starting and growing organically, I have to say that I think it's healthy that people (such as you) are concerned and taking an interest Mar 26 22:34:22 er, 'you' being lbt Mar 26 22:34:24 DawnFoster: the feeling (or lack) of inclusion is not great Mar 26 22:34:26 multitasking too much Mar 26 22:34:52 OTOH, I don't think you'll get "showstopper" status. If the DEB repository is broken, the release continues. But I guess you'd have parallel releases, slightly delayed from the RPM releases. Mar 26 22:35:09 That seems totally fair Mar 26 22:35:29 OBS can prioritise builds BTW Mar 26 22:35:39 lbt: Can you explain? Mar 26 22:35:50 Prioritize rpm over deb? Mar 26 22:35:59 Why would you ever want to do that? Mar 26 22:36:04 Mar 26 22:36:04 eg in the Suse OBS 'Factory' jobs get more CPU time than home: jobs Mar 26 22:36:24 okay. Mar 26 22:36:33 what is happening now is typical of how open source projects start. they start with one person or a small group coming up with the initial code or vision for the project. Linux started this way. Mar 26 22:36:35 * jeremiah_ stares at lbt Mar 26 22:36:43 DawnFoster: Not really. Mar 26 22:36:48 then everything gets opened up and it becomes a real open source project Mar 26 22:36:53 jeremiah_: so this is a +ve thing... it doesn't allow the "you'll hog resource argument" ;) Mar 26 22:37:11 DawnFoster: Except in this case it is Nokia and Intel and they are taking community code Mar 26 22:37:23 So it isn't really an organic open source project Mar 26 22:38:03 DawnFoster: yeah, 1 or 2 is usually individuals, not 1 or 2 "teams of 200 people" Mar 26 22:38:09 Mar 26 22:38:13 heh Mar 26 22:38:18 *nods* Mar 26 22:38:19 and honestly. that is the problem Mar 26 22:38:34 you kinda fail to address that elephant... Mar 26 22:38:57 another interesting point.... no-one else has a Meego itch yet Mar 26 22:38:58 I don't make the strategic decisions on the project. Mar 26 22:39:22 DawnFoster: I know - we expect great things of you though :) Mar 26 22:39:25 DawnFoster: No, you're stuck defending them to us lot. :-) Mar 26 22:39:30 :) Mar 26 22:39:45 BTW, I think everyone believes you are doing a great job. Mar 26 22:39:55 You seem to be reasonable and friendly Mar 26 22:40:03 we know you are one of the community and I believe you want to understand Mar 26 22:40:08 But often open source types have strong opinions Mar 26 22:40:09 At some point, we need to accept the decisions that have been made and focus on making things more awesome over time. Mar 26 22:40:11 thanks Mar 26 22:40:44 * lbt looks at jeremiah_ and the .deb-bers after that comment ;) Mar 26 22:41:03 * jeremiah_ tries to think of something polite to say Mar 26 22:41:07 (from the comfort of his sqenny install) Mar 26 22:41:11 There will be things we can't change - historical stuff that has already happened. My focus is to figure out what's next and how to make sure that the community is included in a meaningful way Mar 26 22:41:31 In debian we fight a lot, and we rarely "accept the decisions" Mar 26 22:41:36 yeah - and I think letting some organic growth occur would be nice Mar 26 22:41:47 then cherry pick from it Mar 26 22:42:19 I will say this - if you guys are serious about community, you'll have to change your DNA a little bit Mar 26 22:42:25 Get out of your comfort zone Mar 26 22:42:33 Let the community make decisions Mar 26 22:42:39 will happen Mar 26 22:42:43 (eventually) Mar 26 22:42:52 thiago_home: Well, folks like you are big time community members Mar 26 22:43:02 ?me is also Nokia Mar 26 22:43:02 So I guess it already has happened Mar 26 22:43:08 And OTC is pretty cool Mar 26 22:43:13 s/\?/\// Mar 26 22:43:23 Yeah but there are lots of Nokians that are debian people too Mar 26 22:43:30 o/ Mar 26 22:43:42 * jeremiah_ pats lbt on the head Mar 26 22:43:44 never used Debian Mar 26 22:43:51 Ubuntu? Mar 26 22:43:56 in fact, the open source community I come from is very different Mar 26 22:44:01 At intel, we fight and argue and try to convince people to make a particular decision, but once a decision has been made, we work to make sure that the project is successful even when the decision didn't go our way Mar 26 22:44:10 it's completely anarchic, no committees, no working groups Mar 26 22:44:18 I may be confusing you with another Thiago Mar 26 22:44:25 rules are mostly oral and tradition Mar 26 22:45:04 Sounds like the same community I come from Mar 26 22:45:20 * thiago_home is talking about KDE Mar 26 22:45:38 I thought so - no you're the Thiago I was thinking of Mar 26 22:45:49 You've done a lot of KDE stuff haven't you? Mar 26 22:45:56 DawnFoster: the problem with that is that it doesn't fit with "meritoratic" ..... /me sees "OK, we'll use Qt but you have to use rpm 'cos we invested tons in it and we'd look foolish switching back" Mar 26 22:46:06 heh Mar 26 22:46:35 and it'll take a *lot* to convince me otherwise Mar 26 22:46:40 OTOH.... so what :) Mar 26 22:46:46 lbt: think of it the other way: "we'll use Qt and we're building a distro using RPM" Mar 26 22:47:08 thiago_home: yeah - it was a negotiation and Meego is the compromise Mar 26 22:47:10 I get it :) Mar 26 22:47:12 like I said, I'm going to accept the decisions that have been made. Mar 26 22:47:14 it's actually good Mar 26 22:47:15 no one is denying the DEB working group, but I didn't see any convincing arguments to get Intel and Nokia to change Mar 26 22:47:31 sorry, you meant Meego there ..... yes? Mar 26 22:47:33 it's more of a personal philosophy - I like to focus on the areas where I can have a real impact Mar 26 22:47:34 thiago_home: community Mar 26 22:47:39 That is the reason Mar 26 22:47:46 Let's face it, Moblin failed Mar 26 22:47:51 beating myself up over things I can't change ins't the best use of my time Mar 26 22:47:53 It never built a community Mar 26 22:47:58 anyway, let's stop before we go into the RPM-vs-DEB again Mar 26 22:48:04 And the debian community is huge Mar 26 22:48:06 thiago_home: "no one is denying the DEB working group, but I didn't see any convincing arguments to get *Intel and Nokia* to change" ??? Mar 26 22:48:09 yeah, it didn't build a community, but it did ship devices Mar 26 22:48:20 so one some people's books, it was a success Mar 26 22:48:31 Dell ships Ubuntu machines Mar 26 22:48:37 Moblin had a community of core OS developers, a strong one, but not a big user community Mar 26 22:48:43 we shouldn't confuse the two Mar 26 22:49:05 Well a bunch of crackerjack Intel devs does not a community make Mar 26 22:49:15 this is the point .... the I/N partners have a lot of weight... and we should not pretend that Meego is not, first and foremost, for their benefit Mar 26 22:49:53 I have no problem with that Mar 26 22:49:57 We all gotta eat Mar 26 22:50:00 instead we would be wiser to say that benefitting I/N will be a good thing for the OSS community Mar 26 22:50:11 I hope Nokia and Intel make a ton of money on MeeGo Mar 26 22:50:21 but I seem to see too many people denying it... Mar 26 22:50:25 me too, but I'm also hoping that we get more partners Mar 26 22:50:32 so that I&N's influence dilutes Mar 26 22:50:35 *hence* the community Mar 26 22:51:04 Sounds cool - as long as we don't get companys buying their way onto the TSG Mar 26 22:51:05 indeed - so the work happening now is not 'normal' community growth Mar 26 22:51:08 thiago_home: an ARM vendor on board would be great :) Mar 26 22:51:16 we are an engineered community :) Mar 26 22:51:24 ml-mobile: yeah Mar 26 22:51:26 Yeah - someone from ARM would be awesom Mar 26 22:51:30 e Mar 26 22:51:31 people from the community who contribute great things to the projects will rise up to have more influential roles (meritocracy) Mar 26 22:51:48 either ARM itself or, say, TI Mar 26 22:51:52 * lbt wants someone from AMD since the intel devs have crippled Meego to not run on non-intel HW Mar 26 22:51:55 I wonder if one can convince TI to join? Mar 26 22:52:16 lbt: Wha? Mar 26 22:52:18 jeremiah_: hopefully Mar 26 22:52:22 :) Mar 26 22:52:43 jeremiah_: Meego requires ssse3 .... so the binaries will not run on even AMD Phenom Mar 26 22:52:43 Intel is consciously making MeeGo cross-platform Mar 26 22:52:48 lbt: if it can be run on ARM then un-breaking it for AMD is entirely valid. Mar 26 22:53:13 lbt: does AMD have any low-power device that can be used in one of MeeGo's target devices? Mar 26 22:53:20 * thiago_home is asking, he doesn't know Mar 26 22:53:24 * jeremiah_ ask the google gods about ssse3 Mar 26 22:53:39 thiago_home: not sure... but the decision means you can't develop on non-Intel HW Mar 26 22:54:00 and by that I mean not 'top of the line' Intel HW... old Pentium-4.... no good Mar 26 22:54:15 the decision was the other way around: we'll run on low-power mobile x86 processors. That's Atom today. Atom has SSSE3, so we may as well use it. Mar 26 22:54:34 yeah, but I can't develop for it Mar 26 22:54:35 otherwise, the next thing you know, we're building binaries targetting 80386 processors Mar 26 22:54:37 Via Nano also has ssse3 :-) Mar 26 22:54:43 the SDK won't run on non-intel Mar 26 22:54:50 lbt: sure you can. You can develop for ARM on your x86. Mar 26 22:55:00 Via Nano Mar 26 22:55:02 yes - thanks to qemu Mar 26 22:55:10 but there's no ssse3 qemu Mar 26 22:55:11 no, native x86 SDK. Mar 26 22:55:19 it's not x86 Mar 26 22:55:23 it's x86-ssse3 Mar 26 22:55:31 build using the local compiler for doing local builds Mar 26 22:55:31 and that, AFAIK, won't run on AMD Mar 26 22:55:39 build with the cross-compiler when deploying to device Mar 26 22:55:47 the same rules that apply to ARM Mar 26 22:55:51 not really Mar 26 22:56:07 since qemu will run intermediate build binaries Mar 26 22:56:16 there's no qemu Mar 26 22:56:32 well, not for the building Mar 26 22:56:36 eg building Qt for ARM, I get qmake binary (ARM) Mar 26 22:56:41 wrong Mar 26 22:56:44 you get an x86 binary Mar 26 22:56:49 moc, qmake, uic are x86 binaries Mar 26 22:56:49 no, I don't Mar 26 22:56:58 well, I do, using the standard Qt cross-compilation flags Mar 26 22:57:04 I don't using the OBS Mar 26 22:57:12 that's also what is are in the Maemo 5 packages Mar 26 22:57:45 there is no ARM moc for Maemo 5 Mar 26 22:58:02 no, you don't currently ship an ARM moc for Maemo 5 Mar 26 22:58:29 but some OBS processes produce one internally Mar 26 22:58:34 and qemu handles it Mar 26 22:58:38 that's not the point :) Mar 26 22:58:45 the point is that for x86 Mar 26 22:58:48 no, it's not Mar 26 22:58:59 my point is that there's nothing stopping you Mar 26 22:59:00 the qmake is ssse3 flavoured Mar 26 22:59:25 if you can develop for ARM without an ARM device, why can't you develop for Atom without an Atom device? Mar 26 22:59:31 qemu Mar 26 22:59:36 that's not an answer Mar 26 22:59:42 it is :) Mar 26 22:59:53 qemu emulates ARM when needed Mar 26 22:59:58 you're saying that qemu doesn't emulate SSSE3? That's a technical detail that can be fixed. Mar 26 23:00:12 good Mar 26 23:00:12 but what I'm telling you is that you don't _need_ to run ARM/Atom code Mar 26 23:00:30 no... Mar 26 23:00:33 you run entirely local-processor code, standard x86 Mar 26 23:00:33 you don't Mar 26 23:00:54 yes... you dig deep into the system and extract every cross-built binary by hand Mar 26 23:00:59 you may want to, but then again, everything is open source. You need a tool that was built only for Atom? Rebuild it :-) Mar 26 23:01:27 build systems that generate intermediate tools have this problem Mar 26 23:01:40 yes, I know Mar 26 23:01:44 or build systems that run the resulting code to test it Mar 26 23:01:50 one would normally assume Mar 26 23:02:09 that an x86 build on AMD cpu would work without qemu Mar 26 23:02:21 this is not the case for Meego Mar 26 23:02:26 and right now Mar 26 23:02:33 there is no qemu-like solution Mar 26 23:02:54 so if you have an AMD cpu desktop you are sool Mar 26 23:03:43 for that matter if you have a >1year old, non "top of the range" laptop you are out of luck too Mar 26 23:03:54 I don't understand why you want to rebuild a tool that is already in the distribution and run the cross-compiled code. Mar 26 23:04:05 half the devs turning up for training inside nokia could not do Meego development Mar 26 23:04:50 heh, those Nokia-approved laptops with disk encryption and running Windows are useless for development Mar 26 23:04:53 :-P Mar 26 23:05:11 well, it was more to do with the CPU not having ssse3 but.. yeah :) Mar 26 23:05:31 Nokia Booklet is only halfway there :) Mar 26 23:05:36 thiago_home: I suppose you don't use windows on a day to day basis? :P Mar 26 23:05:47 w00t_: I also don't use Nokia-approved laptops Mar 26 23:05:57 ah Mar 26 23:05:59 being from the Trolltech side of the acquisition has its advantages Mar 26 23:06:09 hehe Mar 26 23:06:10 we kept some processes, like buying developer machines Mar 26 23:06:22 we tried buying using Nokia processes. Mar 26 23:06:25 once. Never again. Mar 26 23:06:54 even Marketing has stopped using those Nokia-approved Windows laptops. Mar 26 23:07:33 hehe Mar 26 23:07:47 on the bright side Mar 26 23:07:51 at least they -have- hardware purchasing Mar 26 23:08:01 the place I left recently had no hardware newer than 4-5 years old Mar 26 23:08:36 sounds like intel and their laptops :) Mar 26 23:08:45 * microlith still has a T43 from 2005 Mar 26 23:09:03 well, hey, if it still works, then fine Mar 26 23:09:17 not when McAfee decides it needs to start a scan mid-day Mar 26 23:09:17 but when you're having to constantly fight dying/overworked hardware, you're losing a lot of efficiency and goodwill Mar 26 23:09:32 I haven't run windows at work for a very long time Mar 26 23:09:37 so I wouldn't know about McAfee Mar 26 23:09:44 you're fortunate Mar 26 23:11:10 * ShadowJK only ever sees antivirus software that has either stopped working and is blocking system components from working, or antivirus that has let a virus through and is interfering with my attempts to remove the virus Mar 26 23:11:25 microlith: could be worse Mar 26 23:11:30 microlith: could be a corporate-mandated upgrade Mar 26 23:12:32 true Mar 26 23:15:07 lbt: anyway, please ensure someone knows about qemu not emulating SSSE3 Mar 26 23:15:22 I personally don't think it's a big deal, but if you think it is, raise it up Mar 26 23:15:52 thiago_home: I'm not even sure it's possible... Mar 26 23:16:20 I asked on #qemu but no-one answered Mar 26 23:17:04 it certainly means that OBS local builds cannot be done without it :) Mar 26 23:22:14 thiago_home, what was wrong with the booklets if i might ask Mar 26 23:22:27 or rather the nokia approved ones (spec? model?) Mar 26 23:39:01 lcuk: slow processor, slow disk, disk encryption, anti-virus and lots of crap installed that consumed CPU time Mar 26 23:40:04 how on earth are you gonna cope on maemo with the even lower overheads! Mar 26 23:40:09 errr arm Mar 26 23:40:53 didn't get the question Mar 26 23:41:24 i gather you will be using meego to develop meego ? Mar 26 23:41:43 hence development will be possible from one of the arm devices Mar 26 23:43:31 no Mar 26 23:43:37 I plan on continuing to use Mandriva to develop Mar 26 23:44:05 will it be possible tho? Mar 26 23:44:17 would the qt creator ide work on meego? Mar 26 23:45:09 or would a meego specific ide have to be built Mar 26 23:45:30 it's Linux, so I don't see why not Mar 26 23:45:39 but depends on your form factor, though Mar 26 23:45:45 a netbook may be a dev platform Mar 26 23:45:53 a handheld or a TV set-top-box, very unlikely Mar 26 23:46:07 theres devs who go through that pain! Mar 26 23:46:24 (lcuk is one of them) Mar 26 23:46:31 theres one guy from maemo he sat on train for 3 hours a day Mar 26 23:46:39 not any more acually ShadowJK Mar 26 23:46:49 * lcuk will again soon tho Mar 26 23:47:29 admit it, you just like the challenge of seeing if you can make it work :) Mar 26 23:47:31 i'm sure the qt creator ide already works under a debian chroot :) Mar 26 23:47:44 and probably under fremantle itself if someone tested it.. Mar 26 23:48:02 DawnFoster, personally? i have it stated i want a visual ide on my big daddy computer Mar 26 23:48:10 ive got a lot of it there Mar 26 23:48:28 the same code should run in my hand too - and for over a year i did happily **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Mar 27 02:59:56 2010