**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 03 02:59:57 2010
Apr 03 04:03:29 <_Sky_> after searching in the deeps of yum i found out that it uses curl and curl could resolve the file:// url because i had a proxy set which hostname wasn't known in the chroot env :D
Apr 03 07:05:27 <Stskeeps> good morning Hah (carsten here)
Apr 03 07:09:32 <Hah> Morning
Apr 03 07:10:55 <Hah> You seem to be restless in these forums as well ;)
Apr 03 07:11:25 <Stskeeps> i'm a community person with a tiny bit of IRC addiction ;)
Apr 03 07:12:13 <Hah> Can see that .. have to go to crogery store .. talk with you later ..
Apr 03 07:12:16 <Stskeeps> cya
Apr 03 08:03:56 <odin_> the "garage" page on the http://meego.com/garage site, do those cartoons characters look vulgar to you ?
Apr 03 08:04:33 <odin_> the left one is a boy, and the right/pink one is a girl = a family (far right) ?
Apr 03 08:08:41 <odin_> yep those things that "stick out" are meant to be arms
Apr 03 08:09:06 <odin_> who created them?   intel?  are they having a knock at ARMs ?  LOL
Apr 03 08:09:14 <lbt> you need to get out more
Apr 03 08:10:54 <odin_> ah that must be it, too much staring at screen
Apr 03 08:24:38 <wit> hello
Apr 03 08:24:43 <wit> anybody there?
Apr 03 08:33:21 <wit> anybody?
Apr 03 08:35:13 <wit> will there be anything like a central app store for MeeGo?
Apr 03 09:13:16 <anttu> anybody tried 3g usb modem connection?
Apr 03 09:13:48 <anttu> i got it working except nameserver address is not updated
Apr 03 09:14:46 <anttu> usepeerdns is in place in ppp settings
Apr 03 09:19:00 <gaveen> wit, it's too early to say exactly. But I don't think there'll be something central governed by a single company/entity. But App store sort of thing from the project is in the talks
Apr 03 09:19:45 <anttu> ok, i got it from messages: /var/run/ppp/resolv.conf was missing
Apr 03 09:20:08 <anttu> after creating the file 3g connection works including dns
Apr 03 09:25:26 <thiago> anttu: connman is a DNS proxy
Apr 03 09:40:16 <Crashdown> Hi, please can i install Meego to SmartQ5??
Apr 03 09:41:23 <Crashdown> ???
Apr 03 09:42:45 <Crashdown> does anybody have SmartQ5 ??
Apr 03 09:44:01 <anttu> thiago: can you tell me a bit more about dns+conman
Apr 03 09:45:12 <lbt> Crashdown: Stskeeps does... however the SmartQs don't have 3D support - so don't expect most of the Meego UI to work
Apr 03 09:47:14 <lbt> Crashdown: yes, I have a Q7
Apr 03 09:47:32 <lbt> I'm sure it'll get Meego at some point...
Apr 03 09:47:45 <anttu> thiago: anyway, the connection works fine after creating the ppp resolv file
Apr 03 09:48:06 <Crashdown> lbt: i just try to install Mer, Android and Linux to Smartq 5 (multiboot)
Apr 03 09:48:21 <lbt> cool - how far are you getting?
Apr 03 09:49:09 <Crashdown> i install everything but nothing function
Apr 03 09:49:21 <Crashdown> i dont know what to do
Apr 03 09:50:01 <Crashdown> What is your operating system?
Apr 03 09:51:15 <lbt> heh it's not installed until it works :)
Apr 03 09:52:14 <Crashdown> i must go to lunch.. wait a minute :-D
Apr 03 09:57:05 <Crashdown> just a soap, im here
Apr 03 09:57:08 <Crashdown> :D
Apr 03 09:57:35 <Crashdown> did you try multiboot?
Apr 03 09:59:59 <lbt> http://wiki.meego.com/Devices
Apr 03 10:23:06 <supertramp> hi
Apr 03 10:35:49 <Stskeeps> man, meego-dev is turning more toxic than talk.maemo.org
Apr 03 10:39:30 <VDVsx> eheh, true, some people will start blaming meego for everything :D
Apr 03 11:57:02 <gaveen> Stskeeps, I'm also partially responsible it seems. :) << "man, meego-dev is turning more toxic than talk.maemo.org"
Apr 03 12:20:36 <Jaffa> Af'noon, all
Apr 03 13:16:33 <stefaa> hi
Apr 03 13:17:33 <stefaa> i downloaded the meego usb image and booted my netbook. It brings me to a loginprompt. and now ?
Apr 03 13:18:33 <stefaa> can I start X from the prompt after login ?
Apr 03 13:18:39 <stefaa> login as ?
Apr 03 13:19:12 <LuciusMare> Hello
Apr 03 13:19:42 <koupsaa> stefaa hi login root or meego
Apr 03 13:19:44 <LuciusMare> Anybody here tried meego on n900? What were your experiences?
Apr 03 13:19:49 <koupsaa> pass meego
Apr 03 13:20:22 <stefaa> yeah, it works . Thx !
Apr 03 13:20:26 <thiago> LuciusMare: it's a nice xterm
Apr 03 13:22:33 <LuciusMare> thiago: ?
Apr 03 13:22:37 <LuciusMare> No GUI?
Apr 03 13:22:39 <koupsaa> and a pretty logo a boot and logoff
Apr 03 13:23:52 <stefaa> I was expecting a little bit more at this point. More like the Moblin was.
Apr 03 13:24:01 <stefaa> There is no working image yet ?
Apr 03 13:25:21 <thiago> LuciusMare: xterm is graphical
Apr 03 13:26:01 <koupsaa> i see xfce and another package like that in 'yum search' but for now i only get a mouse for 2s. but i hope tomorrow or netx week i get an x
Apr 03 13:26:50 <koupsaa> there is some pb dependancies with rpm xorg-server xorg-x11-common
Apr 03 13:33:56 <stefaa> What am I babling about ? It's a core-img. So i'm impatient ! Be back later. Bye.
Apr 03 14:10:26 <LuciusMare_> meh
Apr 03 14:10:59 <LuciusMare_> so, meego is opensource. How much? I know that maemo had a few of it's components closed...
Apr 03 14:11:55 <CosmoHill> all of it
Apr 03 14:12:10 <LuciusMare_> great
Apr 03 14:12:16 <CosmoHill> but vendors can include closed source things I think
Apr 03 14:12:21 <ShadowJK> yes
Apr 03 14:12:34 <CosmoHill> so if you bought a nokia with meego it would have Ovi Maps which is closed source
Apr 03 14:12:37 <Stskeeps> CosmoHill: all of the shared platform stuff, yes
Apr 03 14:24:13 <_Sky_> I just finished the archlinux package of MIC2, its in the AUR and called "mic2" , it would be great if some archlinux users would test it and give me some feedback, thx
Apr 03 14:24:43 <Stskeeps> _Sky_: great job!
Apr 03 14:39:51 * CosmoHill shakes his fist at his program
Apr 03 14:40:12 <inz> does it shake back?
Apr 03 14:40:20 <CosmoHill> not it doesn't
Apr 03 14:40:33 <CosmoHill> like many other things it doesn't that it should
Apr 03 14:41:34 <_Sky_> whats the program you are working at ?
Apr 03 14:41:56 <CosmoHill> it's a text based RPG game
Apr 03 14:42:09 <_Sky_> :D nethack
Apr 03 14:42:14 <CosmoHill> I'm having some troubles with an association class
Apr 03 14:42:54 <CosmoHill> eg player.setScore(10) works
Apr 03 14:43:05 <CosmoHill> but player->setScore(10) doesn't
Apr 03 14:44:25 <CosmoHill> but player->getScore() would work
Apr 03 14:47:20 <_Sky_> looks like a pointer issue, is 'player' always the same ? looks like its sometimes a pointer and somtimes not ^^
Apr 03 14:47:26 <alden> CosmoHill: hey
Apr 03 14:47:31 <CosmoHill> hey alden
Apr 03 14:47:40 <alden> CosmoHill: managed to get X running on your .vdi last night
Apr 03 14:47:42 <CosmoHill> _Sky_: erm, in main() player is a instance
Apr 03 14:47:53 <CosmoHill> in game() player is a pointer to the player in main
Apr 03 14:47:57 <CosmoHill> alden: awesome
Apr 03 14:48:12 <alden> CosmoHill: tho couldnt get mouse to work.. not sure if its a xorg.conf problem or vbox
Apr 03 14:48:41 <CosmoHill> maybe it's a bit of both
Apr 03 14:49:41 <alden> i tried everything in xorg.conf .. i feel its vbox.. i noticed theres this usb mouse option that i cant seem to enable
Apr 03 14:50:19 <CosmoHill> you might have to install the guest addons from virtualbox
Apr 03 14:50:27 <CosmoHill> not to sure that will work on meego tho
Apr 03 14:50:29 <alden> CosmoHill: but is that possible on meego?
Apr 03 14:50:34 <alden> CosmoHill: yeah
Apr 03 14:50:51 <CosmoHill> I'd take a snapshot before attempting to install it
Apr 03 14:51:24 <alden> CosmoHill: anyway, getting X to run was surprisingly straightforward.. i just installed the xorg packages from meego repo and it worked..
Apr 03 14:51:31 <alden> thats encouraging
Apr 03 14:51:42 <CosmoHill> want to tell me how and I can add it to the readme?
Apr 03 14:51:43 <alden> CosmoHill: oh yeah i did
Apr 03 14:52:06 <alden> CosmoHill: ofcourse.. would u like my vdi ?
Apr 03 14:52:19 <CosmoHill> that would be cool
Apr 03 14:52:30 <CosmoHill> if you put it somewhere public i could grab it from the server
Apr 03 14:52:39 <CosmoHill> (the server isn't mine but I have access and it's damn fast)
Apr 03 14:52:49 <alden> CosmoHill: i tried zypper install xorg-.... one by one .. then finally got restless and just did zypper install xorg-*
Apr 03 14:53:05 <CosmoHill> then reboot?
Apr 03 14:53:20 <alden> CosmoHill: the xorg package filesizes are surprisingly small.. largest was 1.5MB .. downloaded quickly
Apr 03 14:54:05 <alden> CosmoHill: cool, can i upload it to ur server?
Apr 03 14:54:13 <CosmoHill> http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/meego/readme.txt
Apr 03 14:54:16 <CosmoHill> not directly
Apr 03 14:54:37 <_Sky_> you can test if you have  mouse/mice device in /dev , sometimes in /dev/input
Apr 03 14:54:37 <alden> i dont think it required a reboot.. i think i just went ahead and did startx
Apr 03 14:55:00 <alden> it worked with the built-in config.. tho couldnt get mouse to work
Apr 03 14:55:08 <alden> _Sky_: tried and failed
Apr 03 14:55:32 <alden> _Sky_: theres /dev/input/mouse0 and /dev/input/mice
Apr 03 14:55:33 <_Sky_> no mouse device 'file' there ?
Apr 03 14:55:46 <_Sky_> try to cat /dev/input/mice and move your mouse
Apr 03 14:55:59 <_Sky_> if it works its not a vbox issue
Apr 03 14:56:24 <CosmoHill> ooo
Apr 03 14:57:13 <alden> _Sky_: no, fail
Apr 03 14:57:18 <_Sky_> you should see a lot of crap then if you move your mouse :D
Apr 03 14:57:35 <_Sky_> no output ?
Apr 03 14:58:00 <CosmoHill> alden: if you're vdi has X11 and it just a quick install I wouldn't bother
Apr 03 14:58:21 <CosmoHill> my problem is that it took two hours to upload my vdi
Apr 03 14:58:23 <alden> _Sky_: wow thats pretty neat.. just tried it on ubuntu :D
Apr 03 14:58:35 <_Sky_> :D
Apr 03 14:58:46 <CosmoHill> cat /bin/cat :)
Apr 03 14:58:51 <alden> CosmoHill: ok.. dont forget to install framebuffer
Apr 03 14:59:03 <alden> CosmoHill: and ill give you my xorg.conf that worked
Apr 03 14:59:21 <alden> CosmoHill: whoa :D
Apr 03 14:59:23 <lcuk> CosmoHill, how big is it ?
Apr 03 14:59:27 <alden> so much ascii
Apr 03 14:59:58 <alden> lcuk: 223MB
Apr 03 15:00:10 <lcuk> that might explain the upload time lol
Apr 03 15:00:41 <CosmoHill> compressing it gets down to 201MB :(
Apr 03 15:01:47 <_Sky_> are you uploading a vdi ? you can also convert the usb image to vdi
Apr 03 15:01:51 <CosmoHill> it;s a good thing I don't have to pay for bandwidth on the server :)
Apr 03 15:02:10 <CosmoHill> _Sky_: this VDI works on virtualbox
Apr 03 15:02:16 <CosmoHill> the meego usbimg doens't
Apr 03 15:02:17 <_Sky_> mine too :)
Apr 03 15:02:51 <_Sky_> you have to fix the syslinux first in the usb image and then convert it to vdi: http://www.sundtek.de/meego/index.txtI
Apr 03 15:02:57 <CosmoHill> i think that x86 meego should be made to support virtualbox too for testing and stuff
Apr 03 15:03:10 <CosmoHill> I know, i have a link to it
Apr 03 15:03:17 <CosmoHill> _Sky_: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/meego/
Apr 03 15:03:35 <alden> yeah definately
Apr 03 15:03:49 <_Sky_> ok nice
Apr 03 15:03:52 <alden> or any good virtual testing environment
Apr 03 15:04:10 <CosmoHill> the server has a 200Mb/s connection :D
Apr 03 15:05:48 <CosmoHill> apparantly I've found the dream host easter egg
Apr 03 15:05:59 <_Sky_> is Xephyr also included in the meego repo ? i can't find it , normally it should be part of xorg-server
Apr 03 15:06:59 <alden> CosmoHill: the dreamhost easter egg?
Apr 03 15:07:05 <CosmoHill> yes
Apr 03 15:11:48 <LuciusMare> so, one can try out the meego with X by virtualizing it?
Apr 03 15:14:28 <_Sky_> currently i use meego in a chroot environment and i try to install xephyr to start an window based xserver on top of my own X, but you can also use a qemu/virtualbox image of meego and start the X-Server inside
Apr 03 15:14:29 <alden> LuciusMare: with an ubuntu kernel, yeah
Apr 03 15:14:41 <_Sky_> its not limited to ubuntu
Apr 03 15:14:42 <LuciusMare> alden: on which side? :)
Apr 03 15:15:21 <alden> LuciusMare: what do u mean?
Apr 03 15:15:45 <CosmoHill> alden: how do I install the framebuffer that you said meego needs?
Apr 03 15:15:49 <LuciusMare> nevermind
Apr 03 15:16:00 <CosmoHill> LuciusMare if you'd like I have a vdi image of meego
Apr 03 15:16:04 <alden> CosmoHill: there's a package.. i forget the name.. one sec
Apr 03 15:16:31 <LuciusMare> CosmoHill: maybe i would like, i dont know how to run it with the qemu :)
Apr 03 15:16:33 <CosmoHill> i wonder if i could rsync a dvi file
Apr 03 15:16:37 <CosmoHill> oh
Apr 03 15:16:39 <CosmoHill> my bad
Apr 03 15:16:45 <CosmoHill> on mo
Apr 03 15:16:55 <CosmoHill> LuciusMarehttp://www.sundtek.de/meego/index.txt
Apr 03 15:17:42 <_Sky_> install VirtualBox, its faster than qemu :)
Apr 03 15:17:58 <LuciusMare> _Sky_: performance or setting up? :)
Apr 03 15:18:04 <_Sky_> both ;)
Apr 03 15:18:24 <CosmoHill> you did want x86 right? not ARM?
Apr 03 15:18:49 <LuciusMare> CosmoHill: i want to see what is it like, so at the moment, i dont care :)
Apr 03 15:20:03 <alden> CosmoHill: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/repo/ia32/os/i586/xorg-x11-drv-fbdev-0.4.1-1.2.i586.rpm
Apr 03 15:20:12 <_Sky_> there is not much to see, only a standard x-server if you get it working
Apr 03 15:20:23 <LuciusMare> oh
Apr 03 15:20:25 <alden> CosmoHill:  also install xorg-x11-drv-intel-2.11.0-1.1.i586.rpm
Apr 03 15:20:46 <LuciusMare> I thought that there is already the interface
Apr 03 15:20:51 <CosmoHill> shouldn't zypper install xorg-* install that?
Apr 03 15:21:47 <_Sky_> meego is using yum, so the suggested way should be simply: yum install xorg-x11-drv-fbdev-0.4.1-1.2.i586.rpm
Apr 03 15:21:49 <alden> CosmoHill: yeah
Apr 03 15:22:04 <alden> CosmoHill: i installed it first before trying xorg-*
Apr 03 15:22:09 <CosmoHill> ah okay
Apr 03 15:22:30 <CosmoHill> _Sky_: moblin use's yum, meego uses zypper
Apr 03 15:23:08 <lbt> TSCHAKeee: ordered the Joggler BTW...
Apr 03 15:23:10 <_Sky_> are you sure ? the meego image creator needs yum
Apr 03 15:23:24 * LuciusMare looks over at the whole maemo community
Apr 03 15:23:34 <CosmoHill> but alden installed x11 using zypper
Apr 03 15:23:34 <LuciusMare> I wonder how will it all end
Apr 03 15:23:46 <TSCHAKeee>  lbt: thank you :)
Apr 03 15:24:03 <CosmoHill> lbt: what is that
Apr 03 15:24:07 * TSCHAKeee is in the middle of porting orbiter to the SmartQ V7
Apr 03 15:24:16 <TSCHAKeee> all these ARM cores
Apr 03 15:24:23 <TSCHAKeee> and their little subtle differences grrr :P :)
Apr 03 15:24:32 <CosmoHill> oooo
Apr 03 15:24:41 * lbt glances behind him at his smartQ7
Apr 03 15:24:43 <CosmoHill> I've given up on my program since I'm stuck
Apr 03 15:24:55 <TSCHAKeee> lbt: the V7 is very different from the original 7
Apr 03 15:25:01 <alden> yum's there too
Apr 03 15:25:02 <TSCHAKeee> they use a telechips 8900 SoC
Apr 03 15:25:13 <lbt> Ah... V7  I have a mere 7
Apr 03 15:25:18 <TSCHAKeee> which has some awesome power in it.. but there's a punchline
Apr 03 15:25:31 <TSCHAKeee> Telechips won't release drivers for the Mali200 :(
Apr 03 15:25:32 <lbt> CosmoHill: http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/646001/o2-joggler-49-99-now-with-free-app-?page=61
Apr 03 15:25:35 <TSCHAKeee> (AAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH)
Apr 03 15:25:37 <tmzt_> sounds like it needs a rockbox port instead of linux :)
Apr 03 15:26:15 <TSCHAKeee> and the somebody who wrote a VLC driver for the video accellerator will not release code either. :(
Apr 03 15:26:18 <CosmoHill> flash 10 with AS3, i can program that
Apr 03 15:28:47 <_Sky_> CosmoHill: How sure are you about zypper ? i can see nothing in the wiki about it, i can only find instructions for using yum: http://wiki.meego.com/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment#Step_4:_Installing_your_build_dependencies
Apr 03 15:28:49 <TSCHAKeee> lbt: i'm currently nfs mounting a copied chroot and compiling everything on unit. heheehe.
Apr 03 15:29:03 <CosmoHill> hold on
Apr 03 15:29:26 <TSCHAKeee> (did I mention that I ($#@%(#@%#@ hate automake/conf/break?) :P
Apr 03 15:32:53 <CosmoHill> lbt: http://www.openpeak.com/OpenFrame.php
Apr 03 15:32:57 <CosmoHill> ooo that does look nice
Apr 03 15:33:50 <RST38h> automake is optional
Apr 03 15:34:12 <RST38h> No reason to use it nowadays too, you are pretty much guaranteed same compiler and libs everywhere
Apr 03 15:38:51 <_Sky_> It seems that yet yum is the standard software for packages because its everywhere in the wiki, it is installed by default in the developer image and zypper is only installed in the usb image, but i can install it in my chroot env with yum install zypper ^^
Apr 03 15:39:52 <lbt> as I understand it yum is pure python whereas zypper uses C ... so handling larger pkg lists will be better in zypper
Apr 03 15:40:39 <Terje> lbt, uses or is totally?
Apr 03 15:40:46 <_Sky_> yeah thats correct, zypper might be faster because yum is written in python
Apr 03 15:41:22 <lbt> I was deliberately vague ... I dunno. But libzyp (?) is in C
Apr 03 15:41:31 <lbt> apt-get source zypper should tell you
Apr 03 15:41:37 <lbt> oh wait...
Apr 03 15:41:40 <lbt> <grin>
Apr 03 15:41:44 <alden> hehe
Apr 03 15:42:53 <RST38h> Besides, upgrading Python will not kill zypper. I hope.
Apr 03 15:43:09 <RST38h> At least, on Centos when you upgrade Python, yum breaks.
Apr 03 15:43:30 <Terje> http://gitorious.org/opensuse/zypper/trees/master/src
Apr 03 15:44:05 <Terje> RST38h, sounds like bad design.
Apr 03 15:44:17 <Terje> Anything should be upgradeable.
Apr 03 15:44:27 <_Sky_> zypper and libzyp seems to be made by novell
Apr 03 15:44:38 <lbt> Terje: yeah, that's C-ish
Apr 03 15:44:55 <RST38h> Terje: Well, it is RedHat
Apr 03 15:45:04 <RST38h> Terje: Can't expect good design from it, really
Apr 03 15:45:24 <lbt> _Sky_: and yes it came from openSuse/Novell originally
Apr 03 15:45:44 <Terje> RST38h, does that cover anything from RedHat?
Apr 03 15:46:07 <Terje> lbt, looks to be C++ mostly.
Apr 03 15:46:09 <RST38h> Terje: Pretty much all the RedHat-derived Linuxes I had misfortune to use. Dunno about the rest.
Apr 03 15:47:17 <Terje> RST38h, that sucks, because we're supposed to be as upgradeable with RPM base as with .deb base.
Apr 03 15:48:20 <RST38h> Terje: Won't be very upgradeable on the ARMEL
Apr 03 15:48:34 <RST38h> Terje: As to x86, I do not care much about it
Apr 03 15:49:09 <Terje> RST38h, then there's some work to do.
Apr 03 15:49:22 <RST38h> Terje: But, basically, you do not see many ARMEL .rpm packages floating around, so this .rpm compatibility is kinda lost there
Apr 03 15:49:51 <RST38h> Terje: Same goes for .deb of course: just having a .deb is not enough, it has to run on the particular device
Apr 03 15:50:29 <_Sky_> i dont think that yum will break when you update python, it looks like python will be developed in version 2.x and 3.x for a while , they won't cut off version 2.x that fast because almost everyone is still using 2.x because 3.0 has major changes and no backward compatibility
Apr 03 15:50:38 <Terje> RST38h, I was thinking more about quality of packaging, not the packaging format or tool.
Apr 03 15:50:40 <RST38h> Terje: In any case, RPM has nothing to do with any of my negative RedHat experiences.
Apr 03 15:51:56 <_Sky_> you have the same risk of breaking something with C when you upgrade libpng or glibc or something else :)
Apr 03 15:52:26 <Terje> Sky, all Debian based distributions survive upgrading glibc or even init.
Apr 03 15:52:34 <_Sky_> I'm using Archlinux, its bleeding-egde, i know what i'm talking about ;)
Apr 03 15:53:05 <RST38h> Sky: In a well designed system (eg FreeBSD) all the tools required to run the system base are installed separately, at the versions that are known to work
Apr 03 15:53:29 <RST38h> Sky: And it keeps previous libc versions, for compatibility, as packages
Apr 03 15:53:35 <Terje> RST38h, I believe FreeBSD uses a lot of static linking. That's a killer in embedded environment.
Apr 03 15:53:47 <RST38h> Terje: Not that I have seen that
Apr 03 15:54:42 <RST38h> Terje: In fact, the absolutley minimal version fits on a floppy, so it should not be all that bad :)
Apr 03 15:55:18 <_Sky_> in Archlinux you have always the newest packages of all, most packages are available a few hours or maybe 2 days after the release of a new version.
Apr 03 15:55:34 <Terje> RST38h, initial version doesn't matter. If you keep upgrading from one version to another and the disk space is wasted on old versions of libraries, you're at some point going to hit a brick wall.
Apr 03 15:55:45 <RST38h> How nice! Except that this made Redhat lose 1/3 of my dissertation once
Apr 03 15:56:00 <RST38h> Latest kernel, installed by some dumbo from RedHat Corporate Support
Apr 03 15:56:10 <RST38h> Did not work very well with the NFS.
Apr 03 15:56:31 <RST38h> Terje: It does not work this way
Apr 03 15:57:21 <RST38h> Terje: It is not gonna keep old library versions, only the ones needed to run the system you installed
Apr 03 15:57:41 <RST38h> Terje: When you actually *upgrade* to the next OS release, that basic set gets overwritten, afaik
Apr 03 15:58:02 <_Sky_> Terje left 3min ago
Apr 03 15:58:11 <RST38h> You do not upgrade FreeBSD in parts
Apr 03 15:58:19 <RST38h> ah =)
Apr 03 15:58:24 <_Sky_> :)
Apr 03 16:00:04 <_Sky_> i sometimes have the problem that my arch packages are too new :D but that mostly happens if i try to install binarys. But i try to not do that ^^
Apr 03 16:00:38 <RST38h> Sky: I doubt that Archlinux is usable for any real work though...
Apr 03 16:00:42 <_Sky_> Archlinux doesnt keep old packages or librays, everything is keept bleeding edge
Apr 03 16:01:02 <RST38h> Mostly for recompiling your kernel every night or something
Apr 03 16:01:16 <_Sky_> no, that happens with gentoo
Apr 03 16:01:25 <_Sky_> archlinux has precompiled binarys
Apr 03 16:01:46 <_Sky_> except the user repository
Apr 03 16:02:08 * RST38h facepalms at Linux silently
Apr 03 16:02:49 <_Sky_> its simple, easy, fast, no modified packages as possible, no own gui tools or somethink like that, just pure linux :)
Apr 03 16:05:07 <_Sky_> But you need to be a geek and need to have time ;) , because there are updates every day and often you have to renew some configuration files, but the packagemanger(pacman) ist the best i have ever seen http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way
Apr 03 16:05:36 <RST38h> Well, that excludes most people
Apr 03 16:09:15 <_Sky_> yes, i didn't say its a distribution for somebody who wants a linux that just works and has a nice preinstalled gui and gui configuration tools. But if somebody likes to be up-to-date and digg a bit deeper into linux and don't want to compile everythink like in gentoo, then its simply the best :)
Apr 03 16:10:00 <RST38h> naah, the OS is a workhorse, you use it to do work, not for sexual gratification
Apr 03 16:14:26 <_Sky_> but you can't use up-to-date packages with ubuntu or debian for example, either you use ppa's which are insecure/untrusted or you speed much time compiling it and its dependencys which can be very much because of other packages/librarys which are now also out of date
Apr 03 16:16:47 <RST38h> But I do not need to, just need them to work most of the time.
Apr 03 16:17:04 <_Sky_> and if something breaks you often find yourself in a maze of depencies and distribition tools and you don't have a clue where to start searching for the bug that now caused your x-server/dbus/hal/... not to work properly anymore and you fear to change some configuration files because they are often overwritten by other tools or just break something else
Apr 03 16:20:10 <_Sky_> RST38h: didn't you ever want to try something out at the time you read that it was released and has a very cool new feature ?
Apr 03 16:22:40 <RST38h> Sometimes, but I will usually wait for a binary package becoming available
Apr 03 16:22:55 <_Sky_> for example, kde 4.4.2 and gnome 2.30  were recently released, how long do you have to wait to get them ?
Apr 03 16:23:07 <RST38h> I am not interested in these
Apr 03 16:23:15 <_Sky_> it was an example ;)
Apr 03 16:23:20 <RST38h> Bad example then
Apr 03 16:23:25 <_Sky_> im not either, iam using openbox
Apr 03 16:23:47 <_Sky_> *lxde with openbox
Apr 03 16:24:01 <RST38h> When I really want to run something fresh, it is usually a standalone package, smallish
Apr 03 16:24:09 <RST38h> like some game, emulator, or an IDE
Apr 03 16:24:32 <RST38h> at the very worst case, I can compile these. But if they do not compile, I am fine, do not need them for work
Apr 03 16:27:18 <_Sky_> i can understand that, but i for my part love to try out new things and see whats happening in the opensource world :)
Apr 03 16:31:30 <_Sky_> I don't want to wait until the next distribution release, the arch packages are mostly stable and tested enough, of course sometimes they aren't because of a very short testing time, but i like to fix/test things and i often learn more about linux or some programming languages when i do so :)
Apr 03 16:48:26 <oj_> hello all
Apr 03 16:48:54 <oj_> has anyone here tried the meego preview on a netbook yet?
Apr 03 16:55:57 <_Sky_> yes
Apr 03 16:59:20 <lbt> TSCHAKeee: you may want to update http://www.linuxmce.org/index.php/news/developer/148-rolling-back-source-base
Apr 03 16:59:33 <_Sky_> I would suggest you to use CosmoHill's vdi (VirtualBox) image, you can get it here: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/meego/ , but you can also make it working with qemu at x86 with these instructions: http://www.sundtek.de/meego/index.txt
Apr 03 16:59:49 <TSCHAKeee> lbt: oh yeah, murcel will edit that. ;)
Apr 03 17:06:19 <oj_> nice! i was just downloading a vm of fedora to build that usbiso too
Apr 03 17:06:36 <postmanPechkin> good evening
Apr 03 17:07:21 <oj_> thank you!
Apr 03 17:09:26 <WhiteWolf> hi guys
Apr 03 17:10:43 <WhiteWolf> anyone alive ?
Apr 03 17:10:58 <amjad> saturday people become zombies here :)
Apr 03 17:11:03 <WhiteWolf> *g*
Apr 03 17:11:37 <WhiteWolf> i have a question burning on my tung, and thought it might be best posted here :P
Apr 03 17:12:27 <postmanPechkin> i am alive
Apr 03 17:14:38 <WhiteWolf> today i stumbled across the fact, that maemo on the nokia n900 is more "open" than i thought, it even has a rootshell and so on... i wondered if meego would have those possibillities too on upcoming mobile phones
Apr 03 17:18:11 <_Sky_> i hope so, otherwise, build your own meego image for you phone if you miss something ;)
Apr 03 17:18:26 <WhiteWolf> would be nice to be able to use my phone to checkout my server at home via ssh ^^
Apr 03 17:19:34 <_Sky_> openssh is already in the meego repository
Apr 03 17:20:15 <WhiteWolf> (still use a creepy old samsung sgh-d600 and i'm looking for a new one now, should be linux-based)
Apr 03 17:20:32 <WhiteWolf> and the n900 looks very promising
Apr 03 17:21:52 <WhiteWolf> well, i hope the good old bash will make it into meego too :)
Apr 03 17:22:03 <_Sky_> it's already there
Apr 03 17:22:06 <WhiteWolf> yay
Apr 03 17:22:07 <WhiteWolf> :D
Apr 03 17:22:33 <WhiteWolf> thats what i wanted to hear. thanks ;)
Apr 03 17:22:59 <_Sky_> but meego is in a very early state
Apr 03 17:23:04 <WhiteWolf> i know
Apr 03 17:23:04 <_Sky_> there is no gui yet ;)
Apr 03 17:23:13 <WhiteWolf> who needs graphix xD
Apr 03 17:23:39 <_Sky_>  would suggest you to try CosmoHill's vdi (VirtualBox) image, you can get it here: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/meego/
Apr 03 17:24:04 <WhiteWolf> thanks :)
Apr 03 18:15:02 <TSCHAKeee> holy fuck, this is painful
Apr 03 18:15:13 <TSCHAKeee> nfs mount over wifi to an arm mid
Apr 03 18:15:26 <TSCHAKeee> chroot even
Apr 03 18:15:30 <TSCHAKeee> :P
Apr 03 18:15:30 <Stskeeps> hehe
Apr 03 18:16:25 <TSCHAKeee> but it is STILL BETTER
Apr 03 18:16:37 <TSCHAKeee> than beating the living crap out of autobreak to behave
Apr 03 18:19:00 <_Sky_> is there any reason why Xephyr is not in the repository ?
Apr 03 18:19:59 <_Sky_> otherwise i'll try to make a package for it
Apr 03 18:20:30 <thiago> why do you need xephyr in the MeeGo repository?
Apr 03 18:21:45 <Stskeeps> _Sky_: maybe in extra
Apr 03 18:22:00 <_Sky_> because i use it with chroot on my pc and want a seperate X-Server for it with different resolutions
Apr 03 18:22:41 <w00t_> doesn't scratchbox talk about running xephyr on the host?
Apr 03 18:22:45 * w00t_ vaguely remembers something like that
Apr 03 18:22:57 <_Sky_> oh yes, sorry my fault :D
Apr 03 18:23:05 <thiago> you're explaining why you want Xephyr
Apr 03 18:23:12 <_Sky_> you are right ;)
Apr 03 18:23:12 <thiago> you're not explaining why you want Xephyr in MeeGo
Apr 03 18:23:57 <thiago> start Xephyr from your outer distro
Apr 03 18:24:04 <_Sky_> it was a bit ago since i used it the last time, so i mixed it up a little :)
Apr 03 18:27:13 <_Sky_> it works fine now, thanks for the hint ;)
Apr 03 18:30:14 <_Sky_> are there plans to make a modified xfce or something like that for meego or is it in the repo just for testing purposes ?
Apr 03 19:04:00 <CosmoHill> _Sky_: I can see everytime you recommend the VM cos it sets off my highlight :)
Apr 03 19:06:38 <_Sky_> :D
Apr 03 23:07:53 <TSCHAKeee> my god, every forum I look in with anything that meego could possibly run on
Apr 03 23:08:05 <TSCHAKeee> is full of "OMG MEEGO IS OUT! HOW DO I INSTALL?!"
Apr 03 23:08:11 <TSCHAKeee> *facepalm*
Apr 03 23:08:11 <_Sky_> :D
Apr 03 23:08:36 <TSCHAKeee> "If you are asking, it is not useful to you."
Apr 03 23:08:36 <_Sky_> hey, you broke the 4hour silence here ;)
Apr 03 23:08:48 <TSCHAKeee> "YEAH YEAH OKAY OKAY OKAY! BUT HOW DO I INSTALL IT? I WANNA SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE!"
Apr 03 23:09:21 <TSCHAKeee> at which point i drop my head, look over at the nearest brick wall, and send my head repeatedly to strike against its surface
Apr 03 23:09:26 <TSCHAKeee> WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM
Apr 03 23:09:32 <_Sky_> send them a screenshot of a xterm :D
Apr 03 23:09:47 <ShadowJK> or a screenshot of plan9
Apr 03 23:10:15 <_Sky_> lol
Apr 03 23:10:30 <_Sky_> then they will be shocked forever ;)
Apr 03 23:11:17 <_Sky_> u mean this screenshot http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/screenshot.html ^^
Apr 03 23:36:32 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
Apr 03 23:36:45 <CosmoHill> :)
Apr 03 23:55:13 <CosmoHill> cyas
Apr 04 00:53:16 <welsh> Hi, i was wondering if meego will work on any devices that arent running an atom proccessor, for instance, a celeron? not yet?
Apr 04 00:54:13 <TSCHAKeee> welsh: dude
Apr 04 00:54:19 <TSCHAKeee> welsh: do you read any of the docs? :)
Apr 04 00:54:37 <TSCHAKeee> welsh: currently meego needs CPUs with working SSE3 extensions.
Apr 04 00:54:57 <TSCHAKeee> welsh: and MeeGo is designed to be run on the Atom and the ARM CPUs.
Apr 04 00:55:03 <welsh> thanks for your help, I actually read none of the docs
Apr 04 00:55:17 * TSCHAKeee thwaps welsh
Apr 04 00:55:35 <TSCHAKeee> welsh: please read the wiki and various bits of docs, they mention this over and over. :)
Apr 04 00:55:39 <welsh> as i'm an average user and prefer talkign to dedicated members like you than doing any work myself in things that im unknowledgeable in myself
Apr 04 00:55:50 * TSCHAKeee takes a deep breath
Apr 04 00:55:59 <welsh> yeah, i know.. you hate that
Apr 04 00:55:59 <TSCHAKeee> right now, MeeGo is NOT for the average user
Apr 04 00:56:07 <TSCHAKeee> especially the ARM target
Apr 04 00:56:18 <welsh> but im lazy, and i've got things to do. you jsut saved me a bunch of time, so thank you :)
Apr 04 00:56:23 <TSCHAKeee> if you want something that you can most likely use, I would suggest waiting for the official release in May.
Apr 04 00:57:05 <TSCHAKeee> this release is a code drop so that interested developers can get in on the development process at its earliest stages of unification and reassembling.
Apr 04 00:57:05 <welsh> right, and the idea is that will run on most, if not all netbooks?
Apr 04 00:57:10 <welsh> including celeron, not just atom?
Apr 04 00:57:14 <TSCHAKeee> no.
Apr 04 00:57:18 <TSCHAKeee> dude
Apr 04 00:57:20 <TSCHAKeee> read the docs
Apr 04 00:57:41 <TSCHAKeee> right now, the netbook target needs a CPU that has a few extra extensions that the Celerons do not have
Apr 04 00:58:08 <TSCHAKeee> given that the atom netbooks are dirt cheap, you may want to purchase one to run Moblin or the future MeeGo release.
Apr 04 00:58:30 <welsh> i have one, only i ALSO have a celeron crappy thing
Apr 04 00:58:35 <welsh> that i'd like to do somethign with
Apr 04 00:58:56 <TSCHAKeee> meego is not for the celeron's...and most likely will never be
Apr 04 00:59:04 <welsh> thats all i wanted to know
Apr 04 00:59:08 <welsh> thanks very much for your time
Apr 04 00:59:20 <TSCHAKeee> they miss some very needed features that this system needs.
Apr 04 00:59:29 <TSCHAKeee> but see, this could have been figured out, just with a little bit of reading
Apr 04 00:59:31 <TSCHAKeee> 5 mins worth
Apr 04 00:59:36 <welsh> yeah. im totally aware that bad old processors are old.
Apr 04 00:59:44 <welsh> i did google
Apr 04 00:59:44 <TSCHAKeee> 5 mins.
Apr 04 01:00:04 <welsh> 3 or 4 times.. it didnt turn up
Apr 04 01:00:15 <TSCHAKeee> well, sorry you didn't find it
Apr 04 01:00:18 <TSCHAKeee> i don't mean to be an asshole
Apr 04 01:00:30 <welsh> you can say 5 mins.. but its 5 mins of reading the exact bit of text you'd need to find
Apr 04 01:00:37 <welsh> and its that bit that is difficult to find
Apr 04 01:00:41 <TSCHAKeee> but really, the one thing we can't be, is hand holders for those who refuse to help themselves
Apr 04 01:00:42 <welsh> withotu havign to read a whole lot moe
Apr 04 01:01:06 <welsh> well, im hardly refusing to help, im not asking you to google things for me
Apr 04 01:01:12 <welsh> just a simple bit of advice really
Apr 04 01:01:16 <welsh> which im grateful for
Apr 04 01:01:21 <TSCHAKeee> ok.
Apr 04 01:01:25 <TSCHAKeee> you're welcome.
Apr 04 01:01:31 <welsh> goodnight
Apr 04 01:01:35 <TSCHAKeee> I'm sorry it will not work on the machine you wish to run it on.
Apr 04 01:01:42 <TSCHAKeee> but it is not the intended target at all.
Apr 04 01:01:43 <welsh> and thanks again
Apr 04 01:01:56 <TSCHAKeee> np.
Apr 04 01:02:32 * TSCHAKeee facepalms
Apr 04 01:04:25 <w00t_> TSCHAKeee: out of curiosity, where would you look for such information?
Apr 04 01:05:16 <TSCHAKeee> http://meego.com/downloads
Apr 04 01:05:30 <TSCHAKeee> it's pretty black and white
Apr 04 01:05:35 <TSCHAKeee> * Atom based notebooks
Apr 04 01:05:39 <TSCHAKeee> * ARM based devices
Apr 04 01:05:44 <TSCHAKeee> * Moorestown based devices
Apr 04 01:05:49 <TSCHAKeee> *shrug*
Apr 04 01:05:52 <TSCHAKeee> I mean, really
Apr 04 01:05:55 <TSCHAKeee> wtf?
Apr 04 01:06:06 <w00t_> "i was wondering if meego will work on ... not yet?"
Apr 04 01:06:18 <TSCHAKeee> the above is what it works on
Apr 04 01:06:30 <TSCHAKeee> if you're the hacker sort, you can make it work on other stuff
Apr 04 01:06:42 <w00t_> yes, and that doesn't mean that it can't work on other things, or that there may not be future plans.
Apr 04 01:07:03 <TSCHAKeee> but if you're already asking such questions without digging around, you've asked the wrong questions, and probably don't have what it takes to hack it to other CPUs.
Apr 04 01:07:36 <TSCHAKeee> and this was answered all over moblin in the past.
Apr 04 01:07:41 <w00t_> well, after your minirant, I did the same searching myself, and I saw nothing that would have answered his question as to what the future plans were :)
Apr 04 01:08:03 <w00t_> now, I'm on the mailing lists, so I know about the SSE3 requirements, but not everyone is - and not everyone has been since day one
Apr 04 01:09:03 <TSCHAKeee> *nod* point taken.
Apr 04 01:09:24 <w00t_> k
Apr 04 01:09:47 <w00t_> while it's indeed not a good thing to handhold everyone, there's nothing wrong from giving people a bit of a leg up and trying to encourage people to grow their knowledge basically
Apr 04 01:10:02 <w00t_> the idiots of today are the contributors of tomorrow, etc
Apr 04 01:10:03 <TSCHAKeee> yes, you're right. i'm in a bit of a rotten mood
Apr 04 01:10:23 <w00t_> ah, that's no good - anything in particular got up your nose?
Apr 04 01:10:40 <TSCHAKeee> i've been building linuxmce software for a particular ARM device
Apr 04 01:10:48 <TSCHAKeee> and it's just been painful because i am doing it natively
Apr 04 01:11:19 <w00t_> heh :(
Apr 04 01:11:32 <w00t_> cross compiling not an option?
Apr 04 01:11:36 <TSCHAKeee> not to mention, it's my girlfriend's birthday today, she's 2000 miles away, it's that time of the month, i slipped and forgot to say happy birthday before she mentioned it, and that flew back in my face, and now...
Apr 04 01:11:43 * TSCHAKeee bangs head against brick wall
Apr 04 01:11:50 <w00t_> ow :P
Apr 04 01:12:18 <TSCHAKeee> w00t_: have you had to mind-bend autobreak based stuff to cross-dev?
Apr 04 01:12:36 <TSCHAKeee> i'd rather have a root canal by truck wench.
Apr 04 01:12:38 <w00t_> hahah, ok, question answered
Apr 04 01:13:03 <TSCHAKeee> it's just sad when just a year and a half ago
Apr 04 01:13:08 <TSCHAKeee> i see a message on the autotools list
Apr 04 01:13:11 * alden was an idiot once
Apr 04 01:13:21 <TSCHAKeee> "Gee, I guess we should think about this cross-compiling stuff, huh?"
Apr 04 01:13:25 <TSCHAKeee> *Facepalm*
Apr 04 01:15:04 <alden> heh
Apr 04 01:15:52 <TSCHAKeee> "but but but, that would mean talking to the libtool people!"
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Apr 04 02:59:58 2010