**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 15 02:59:56 2010 Apr 15 04:48:39 woohoo, completely not going to SF Apr 15 06:04:26 morning Apr 15 06:09:50 just wrote a QPriorityQueue container for Qt, do someone know where I should sent it as RFC ? Apr 15 06:16:38 morning Apr 15 06:20:55 iksaif, maybe they know better at #Qt channel. basically it should be happened with merging request trough qt.gitorious.org Apr 15 06:23:16 *thourgh Apr 15 06:27:54 Anss|: thanks, I didn't know that there was a #Qt chan :) but I don't know it merge request is really the way to go, because I really wan't some comments before starting writing documentation etc for a proper merge request, but I'll ask that in #Qt :) Apr 15 08:33:38 morning all Apr 15 08:34:23 morning slaine Apr 15 08:41:22 Hi ! Apr 15 08:43:09 hi Khertan_Home Apr 15 08:47:19 Hi lbt Apr 15 08:51:40 Imad's talk last night was pretty good Apr 15 08:51:46 sorry I missed Arie's Apr 15 08:53:26 I'm not seeing much evidence of the talk content Apr 15 08:55:36 lbt, what do you mean ? Apr 15 08:57:08 well, how much development discussion do you see on -dev? Apr 15 08:57:43 how much discussion of "the process leading up to technology selection" Apr 15 08:58:08 which, according to Imad is happening Apr 15 08:58:51 I'm not whinging... just saying that there are statements being made which need to be backed up Apr 15 08:59:59 lbt: Imad claimed that technology selection and architecture discussions were happening in the open, on meego-dev? Apr 15 09:00:25 his words " Apr 15 09:00:26 The infrastructure is visible Apr 15 09:00:27 the process leading up to technology selection is open Apr 15 09:00:56 who here can see the build systems? Apr 15 09:01:38 who knows of any discussion on any technology selection? Apr 15 09:01:52 well, besides rpm vs deb, which happened after the fact Apr 15 09:02:13 * lbt should have put "pending" :) Apr 15 09:06:35 lbt: vBulletin on meego-community is the only tech selection I've seen Apr 15 09:07:11 heh Apr 15 09:08:26 "Welcome to MeeGo"... Apr 15 09:08:58 Stskeeps: root pw Apr 15 09:09:42 meego? Apr 15 09:10:16 y Apr 15 09:10:23 meego Apr 15 09:10:23 :P Apr 15 09:11:00 mmm case? Apr 15 09:11:27 moblin if meego fails Apr 15 09:12:00 "sweetie, your roots are showing" Apr 15 09:12:20 but probably only Jaffa will get that Apr 15 09:13:28 lbt, Yes, hence my comment last night, they're talking the talk, but not yet walking the walk Apr 15 09:14:05 well, with a community hat on, our role is to prod them... hard :) Apr 15 09:14:12 yeah Apr 15 09:14:36 I'm getting tired of coming across as "the bad guy" though. complaining is that rewarding Apr 15 09:14:39 and repeatedly Apr 15 09:15:29 slaine, lbt, Jaffa: http://pastebin.com/P4N5epp7 Apr 15 09:15:32 (work in progress) Apr 15 09:17:50 Stskeeps:looks good Apr 15 09:18:11 The frustrating part of this is that, all the engineers in Intel and Nokia know all this Apr 15 09:18:17 I'm sure Imad and Arie know all this Apr 15 09:18:35 They certainly seem to when talking about MeeGo espouse these ideals. Apr 15 09:18:46 The problem is they're not (yet) enacting them Apr 15 09:18:51 one thing is how things are supposed to be, one thing is how they are implemented by people under them Apr 15 09:19:20 Stskeeps: I'm re-doing the RWG stuff too... can we co-ordinate l8r? Apr 15 09:19:33 lbt: maybe, but i don't think they're related Apr 15 09:19:52 lbt, should we have a RWG get together ? Apr 15 09:20:15 mmm, true, I will use that but you won't use mine Apr 15 09:20:22 slaine: yes Apr 15 09:20:29 * lbt has to pop out Apr 15 09:20:31 l8r Apr 15 09:20:39 I can't do it tonight, but keep me posted Apr 15 09:21:15 'k Apr 15 09:31:50 http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/15/nokia-and-intel-give-meego-1-0-its-first-live-performance-video/ Apr 15 09:35:02 See, this is the kind of stuff that really makes me grumpy Apr 15 09:35:40 If this is an open project, we don't have access to the code, then how on earth are there Vendors at IDF showing off devices running a full blown MeeGo install Apr 15 09:38:03 * Stskeeps nods Apr 15 09:49:31 Also, it's clear from what we've seen at IDF that the Netbook and Handheld UI's are what was available for Moblin and due for Moblin 2.2 release. We had full access to the code for these back in February and then all the projects mysteriously disappeared when servers we're being migrated etc. So saying that they're not ready isn't exactly a fair statement Apr 15 09:49:40 here I go, belly aching again Apr 15 09:50:03 slaine, carry on. Apr 15 09:50:23 Seems fruitless to be honest Apr 15 09:50:41 Unfortuantely, things have turned out exactly as I predicted Apr 15 09:51:20 can we condense it into some succinct and measurable tasks for the next TSG. Apr 15 09:52:31 chatting to the nokia n900 meego team lead last night I mentioned metrics like # of emails posted to -dev by meego teams Apr 15 09:52:32 lbt, chances are now that they've had their "big reveal" we'll see the different repo's open up either end of this week or early next week Apr 15 09:52:53 honestly, the code is mainly there Apr 15 09:53:00 the issue is the communication Apr 15 09:53:14 lbt, I'm not so sure Apr 15 09:53:20 http://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_Best_Practices_for_working_in_a_MeeGo_team - feedback wanted, especially on categories Apr 15 09:53:42 This is exactly how Intel behaved with Moblin for the last couple of years Apr 15 09:54:25 This was clearly calculated and planned to pan out exactly as it has Apr 15 09:54:55 They did it with Moblin 2.0 and to a lesser extent with Moblin 2.1 Apr 15 09:55:12 BTW, who from the LF is on here? Apr 15 09:55:17 or -dev Apr 15 09:55:20 or -community Apr 15 09:55:22 ? Apr 15 09:55:31 lbt, that's actually one of my pilled up questions for the TSG Apr 15 09:55:35 or is LF a branding shield? Apr 15 09:55:44 Surely someone from LF should surely be on the TSG Apr 15 09:55:44 well, ScriptRipper and dl9pf, but that probably isn't what you asked for Apr 15 09:56:09 true Apr 15 09:56:33 lbt, Don't forget, Moblin was LF as well Apr 15 09:56:43 didn't change anything, nice PR, but that's it Apr 15 09:57:29 maybe there should be some social/community agreement Apr 15 10:00:07 Stskeeps: what was the question for me? Apr 15 10:01:00 ScriptRipper: no question, discussing what LF represenants were in here :) Apr 15 10:01:26 and what role the LF plays in MeeGo Apr 15 10:02:07 lets just say "the community would like to help Nokia and Intel audit their openness claims" Apr 15 10:02:26 lol Apr 15 10:03:48 lbt: nice Apr 15 10:04:22 Anss|: eh? Apr 15 10:05:55 timeless_mbp: We've been talking about open this open project is Apr 15 10:06:49 role of LF in MeeGo: trademark owner, provider of the MeeGo infrastructure Apr 15 10:07:14 MeeGo certification instance Apr 15 10:08:50 Enabler of the closed sourcedness Apr 15 10:09:09 what do you mean? Apr 15 10:09:34 I mean exactly what the room has been discussing. The open project doesn't seem very open Apr 15 10:09:55 * Stskeeps submits his proposal to mailing lists Apr 15 10:09:57 its currently more a technical problem Apr 15 10:10:11 the means to open up are not in place Apr 15 10:10:12 ScriptRipper: smtp down? Apr 15 10:10:51 ScriptRipper: except this issue is not only OBS :/ Apr 15 10:10:58 nope Apr 15 10:11:00 Ah yes, this is like when you are suppose to email someone something and you didn't, you put it down to "technical issues". "My computer just wouldn't work!" "Did you not get the email? Email must be down today" Apr 15 10:11:18 haha Apr 15 10:11:20 "Lots of viruses!!!1111!!!!one" Apr 15 10:11:24 but you all know that many people were hit by surprise on the 17.2.2010 Apr 15 10:12:01 infrastructure goes to OSU still Apr 15 10:12:22 i think all this was discussed in the TSG meetings Apr 15 10:13:29 also the roles were discussed there Apr 15 10:13:41 ScriptRipper: to be fair, the focus of the discussion is on the nebulous (ie we don't know who they are) Meego teams (what teams?) are not talking in public. How is this open? How is it that LF is not talking openly about the plans to move the infrastructure? Apr 15 10:14:23 for an "open" project there are a lot of closed discussions happening between unknown parties Apr 15 10:15:41 ScriptRipper Also, formally open projects for the UI are now gone behind closed doors Apr 15 10:15:42 What I think we're doing is trying to highlight these (and Stskeeps has condensed a lot of that in his post) Apr 15 10:15:42 just let things settle down first, there are pobably alot of pillars that has to be set before everyone can begin to chip in on the construction. Apr 15 10:16:00 stefan_e: actually no. Apr 15 10:16:09 That was day 0 Apr 15 10:16:13 or maybe day 1 Apr 15 10:16:23 we're now having "open" TSG meetings... Apr 15 10:16:51 The project clearly has a defined path that we're not being involved in deciding. Apr 15 10:16:53 things will open up with time I'm sure Apr 15 10:16:54 did you see any emails on the ml between imad and valheri discussing the meeting? Or was all that done in private? Apr 15 10:17:10 Or how to get things working for the IDF demos Apr 15 10:17:12 stefan_e: except that's what we've been saying for a little too long now Apr 15 10:17:30 slaine: not only that (which I kinda understand) but we can't therefore see the reasoning Apr 15 10:17:37 which is not open Apr 15 10:17:38 nod Apr 15 10:18:11 Or technical discussion on driver support for Tv's, Netbooks, Vending machines that where on display at IDF Apr 15 10:18:22 are there any more ICF presentations that we can get a Q into? Apr 15 10:18:23 Or the actual code that was used Apr 15 10:18:38 mmmm gotta go.... back l8r Apr 15 10:21:14 i am not following the openes of the project Apr 15 10:21:30 i see it with myself: fully under stress to hold the dates Apr 15 10:22:15 That's not why we're seeing any code though Apr 15 10:22:25 sure Apr 15 10:22:32 that's just called work Apr 15 10:22:34 we all have that Apr 15 10:22:48 we want to hold the dates and and not talk about the world at the moment Apr 15 10:22:48 well, all those of us fortunate enough to have a job Apr 15 10:23:04 party is always better if there is a theme for the public Apr 15 10:23:09 ScriptRipper: except this pattern is going to repeat itself Apr 15 10:23:13 and not "there will be ..." Apr 15 10:23:21 there's really never going to be a time when it will be less stressful :) Apr 15 10:23:43 ScriptRipper: What you're describing there is the "Grand Reveal" Apr 15 10:23:46 but if the infra is open und the source is released, there is a basis to talk about Apr 15 10:23:54 "Look what we made" Apr 15 10:24:01 nope Apr 15 10:24:13 who follows knows already what will come Apr 15 10:24:33 the problem is this is the 1.0 Apr 15 10:24:41 No, it's not 1.0 Apr 15 10:24:42 and not a delayed 7.5 Apr 15 10:25:09 It's Moblin 2.2++ Apr 15 10:25:28 nope Apr 15 10:25:42 there are substantial differences Apr 15 10:25:48 The majority if this was already available in moblin's trunk repo back in February Apr 15 10:25:55 ScriptRipper: This just seems like an excuse - it doesn't matter what version it is, 1.0 or 7.5, that doesn't displace the things that are happening behind closed doors which should be open Apr 15 10:26:15 so if it is Moblin where is Nokia involved then?? i mean is maemo only for app development?? Apr 15 10:26:16 i dont want to discuss this, because i am not responsable for: Apr 15 10:26:24 release policy Apr 15 10:26:31 meego distro Apr 15 10:27:18 s/majority if/majority of/ Apr 15 10:27:21 True, it's not your doing. I guess we're just frustrated and venting and looking for some support from LF to try and make things open, not justify the continued closedness Apr 15 10:27:56 and i am i a real hurry Apr 15 10:28:27 And the only reason we're so frustrated is that we WANT to be involved and make something of MeeGo. To contribute Apr 15 10:28:35 Isn't that the essence of a community effort ? Apr 15 10:28:35 i have to do a OBS 1.8 release Apr 15 10:29:00 the OBS 1.8 release is e.g. done in the publuc Apr 15 10:29:10 its also reviewed there Apr 15 10:29:15 the Git repo is open Apr 15 10:29:21 ... Apr 15 10:29:39 just to give you an example Apr 15 10:29:55 it might be that the "great big plan" is not published Apr 15 10:30:04 that is something for the TSG Apr 15 10:30:24 but look at Collab Summit and Intel IDF slides Apr 15 10:30:36 they have published lots of stuff yesterday Apr 15 10:30:40 yes, that's our complaint Apr 15 10:31:20 but you have to raise your complains for this to the bosses Apr 15 10:31:25 yes Apr 15 10:31:26 not to the worker bee Apr 15 10:31:32 Where can I watch the IDF? Apr 15 10:31:32 I feel the real problem is that this is a very top down org. And the top is busy, so nothing really comes out. Apr 15 10:32:06 Projects should help here, when they are eventually setup. Apr 15 10:32:09 there are some screenshots of UI, 2 complete slide sets about technique etc. Apr 15 10:33:50 Question i ve just finished downloaded the usbimg of meego for netbook to try it on my netbook Apr 15 10:34:01 and to be quite frank to you all: i have spent 7 years in FOSS projects Apr 15 10:34:07 how to put usbimg to an usb key ? Apr 15 10:34:11 dd ? Apr 15 10:34:13 i know what open is and what it means Apr 15 10:35:12 ScriptRipper: yes, we should be ganging up on you Apr 15 10:35:47 that said, let us not shoot the messenger :P Apr 15 10:36:11 * Stskeeps knows ScriptRipper's commitment to open development and admires it. Apr 15 10:36:13 I apologies if I came across like that. Apr 15 10:36:32 Oh shit, I meant to say "should not" Apr 15 10:36:34 lol Apr 15 10:36:45 as a developer of a open source project you always have to problem Apr 15 10:36:46 * slaine facepalms Apr 15 10:36:53 of how to channel things into code Apr 15 10:37:16 and: the discussions in the IRC do often *not help you with coding* Apr 15 10:37:32 I don't think this is about ganging up on anyone. Its just about trying to get to the bottom of how much is MeeGo currently and going forward, going to be open. Apr 15 10:37:41 because most people you talk to *are users and not programmers* Apr 15 10:38:01 but i have the problem as a FOSS developer *to find other developers* Apr 15 10:38:15 this has nothing to do with MeeGo Apr 15 10:38:30 I talk more about OBS project where I am in since 2005 Apr 15 10:39:07 and a FOSS project always needs a basis for all people to jump on Apr 15 10:39:12 Khertan_Home, yes with dd dd bs=4096 if=meego... of=/dev/sdX Apr 15 10:39:25 and to improve it Apr 15 10:39:25 ScriptRipper: Didn't you have some sort of release you had to work on that was important, rather than try to (for no needed reason) justify yourself to us? :P Apr 15 10:39:39 i dont justify Apr 15 10:39:42 koupsaa, thx ... Apr 15 10:40:02 the disussion ongoing is repeatedly hold in every FOSS project Apr 15 10:40:23 MeeGo needs to adapt to survive Apr 15 10:40:25 Khertan_Home, http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation Apr 15 10:40:30 to the surrounding Apr 15 10:41:03 koupsaa: hum ... never see the wiki :) thx Apr 15 10:41:12 :) Apr 15 10:42:03 Termana: I take at the moment just the freedom also to discuss :) Apr 15 10:42:19 as you all Apr 15 10:44:17 question: i don't now if is the good place to ask but i try. Is the .po file http://translate.moblin.org/projects/p/firstboot/c/master/ that will be used for meego too? Apr 15 10:44:58 look into the meego source code drop if it is Apr 15 10:45:27 i ll try Apr 15 10:45:30 thx Apr 15 10:45:41 ahh, maybe this package is not in the MeeGo drop Apr 15 10:45:54 is this a UI component? Apr 15 10:46:54 it's for firt install (choose language keyboard date etc) Apr 15 10:46:58 fisrt Apr 15 10:47:52 UK air space closes in 13 minutes! :o Apr 15 10:48:42 I think the MeeGo UI is not yet published Apr 15 10:48:57 its rewritten compared to Moblin with QT Apr 15 10:49:58 ok i note. just wait so Apr 15 10:54:19 ScriptRipper: I doubt that very much Apr 15 10:54:53 It was announced that the UI will remain as Clutter/Mx but that developers are to develop in Qt Apr 15 11:11:51 ompa porukkaa Apr 15 11:12:09 moi Apr 15 11:15:20 o Apr 15 11:16:15 ok, meego .po files are on http://translate.moblin.org/collections/c/meego/ moblin.org is what disturbed me. Apr 15 11:16:17 for info ... Apr 15 11:30:25 whoa? : ill Apr 15 11:30:32 http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/15/nokia-and-intel-give-meego-1-0-its-first-live-performance-video/ Apr 15 11:38:03 alden, thx Apr 15 11:39:42 looks like moblin with a new theme Apr 15 11:44:16 yes i am agrre. is very moblin Apr 15 11:45:00 still trying to copy apple eh? ... something different should come up.. Apr 15 11:45:28 looks like something iphone like with much less features than apple Apr 15 11:45:54 and multitask Apr 15 11:46:22 well apple has that too, just a matter of exposing it to the developers Apr 15 11:46:38 from businessside apple and sony are doing it the best way they manage their content Apr 15 11:47:49 Just as long as I can get to the terminal... Apr 15 11:48:02 anyone know if it's possible you use image-creator with non-meego repos ? Apr 15 11:48:32 I'm gonna see if I can get it to build an image with my own rpms Apr 15 11:48:43 slaine: works fine Apr 15 11:48:44 (all my own, kernel, base os etc.) Apr 15 11:48:53 slaine you can edit kickstart file Apr 15 11:49:00 .ks Apr 15 11:49:00 yes, I have done Apr 15 11:49:15 I've been using the livecd-creator and appliance-tools on Fedora12 Apr 15 11:49:30 wondering if image-creator would offer better support for what I want Apr 15 11:50:37 slaine, i m so bad in english. the better way for me is to copy/paste this link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Kickstart#Chapter_2._Kickstart_Options Apr 15 11:51:01 thats fine koupsaa, I know about kickstart Apr 15 11:54:46 slaine: you might be right. looks like 1.0 has the old Netbook UI Apr 15 11:54:56 with clutter and mutter Apr 15 11:55:02 I know I'm right ;) Apr 15 11:55:18 This was all confirmed at the first TSG anyways Apr 15 11:55:31 i did not listen Apr 15 11:55:38 to it completely Apr 15 11:55:54 They weren't going to have time to make a whole new UI in a couple of weeks Apr 15 11:55:55 but what happens after 1.0? Apr 15 11:56:08 Exactly, I don't think they know/knew either Apr 15 11:56:12 will all be moved to QT then? Apr 15 11:56:22 Meego 1.0 will have a new core with the moblin UI Apr 15 11:56:33 At the moment, thirdparty developers are supposed to develop with Qt Apr 15 11:56:34 Meego 1.1 will have the Qt GUI Apr 15 11:56:38 was there anything said about Phone UI Apr 15 11:56:49 CosmoHill: I very much doubt that Apr 15 11:56:51 Depends per UX. Apr 15 11:57:06 More like MeeGo 1.2 when things are fully merged Apr 15 11:57:08 slaine: well it will have a new UI Apr 15 11:57:30 MeeGo 1.1 will more likely be a more polished version of 1.0 Apr 15 11:57:50 MeeGo 1.2 seems to be the real 1.0. Apr 15 11:57:57 CosmoHill: got some reference for that info ? Apr 15 11:59:15 hmm, i was wrong Apr 15 11:59:59 it was meego 1.0 in may and 1.1 in october Apr 15 12:09:49 ScriptRipper: not directly Apr 15 12:10:12 Though, based on what we've seen from IDF, I think Handheld UX will cover Phones and MIDs Apr 15 12:28:05 which IDF? Apr 15 12:28:14 the currently running one? Apr 15 12:28:46 hi Apr 15 12:28:47 how can I start X on meego for netbook? Apr 15 12:29:34 type startx if it's installed Apr 15 12:29:52 it's not installed :) Apr 15 12:30:59 neither xinit or gdm Apr 15 12:31:21 usb.img ? Apr 15 12:31:35 yes Apr 15 12:31:48 meego-preview-netbook-core-20100330-001.usbimg Apr 15 12:32:20 the only way i found to have an X with usb.img is to make an kickstart file Apr 15 12:32:22 ah Apr 15 12:32:31 so i'm not the only one too look :) Apr 15 12:32:32 drizztbsd: Xorg doesn't work on the netbook one by default Apr 15 12:32:35 just download it Apr 15 12:32:39 found the login/pass Apr 15 12:32:46 slaine: why not? Apr 15 12:32:48 and looking for if the ui is available Apr 15 12:32:49 :) Apr 15 12:34:05 drizztbsd: how the hell should I know why Apr 15 12:34:34 I have my conspiracy theories Apr 15 12:34:40 but we'll see how that pans out Apr 15 12:34:49 I've been right so far though Apr 15 12:35:04 a .ks file with xorg-x11* and xterm betwen %packages to have an x with meego-dev Apr 15 12:35:25 but it's just an X like other linux Apr 15 12:35:39 no specific meego UI Apr 15 12:35:43 I know it Apr 15 12:35:53 i think the meego ui was in preview due to the video of the idf :) Apr 15 12:36:08 i think the meego ui was in preview (for netbook only) due to the video of the idf :) Apr 15 12:36:31 you can get moblin if you want to have any idea about meego.... Apr 15 12:38:25 yep ... this is what i m currently downloading :) Apr 15 12:39:06 Khertan_Home: what netbook do you have ? Apr 15 12:39:28 i m too restless to made my first app for meego :) Apr 15 12:39:37 slaine, an n130 Apr 15 12:39:41 slaine, an samsung n130 Apr 15 12:40:06 I don't know that model Apr 15 12:40:10 let me google Apr 15 12:40:12 see that some complain about no wifi driver for the last moblin release but for testing i ll connect an ethernet cable :) Apr 15 12:40:39 anyway it s in the moblin compatibility list :) Apr 15 12:41:18 cool Apr 15 12:41:53 some bug (deconexion re-connect de-connect..) with ath9k but i've installed new kernell and it's ok Apr 15 12:42:39 koupsaa: yep but for a test it ll be enought :) Apr 15 12:42:48 yep Apr 15 12:42:54 sure Apr 15 12:43:15 ouch 754Mo ... hum ... 2 hours to wait :) Apr 15 12:44:22 argh... and 2 minutes to test it Apr 15 12:45:10 koupsaa, a bit more :) Apr 15 12:45:13 i hope :) Apr 15 12:45:48 i have adopted it :) 3minutes Apr 15 12:47:31 you like the UI or not... after it his only a linux. with not a lot of packages but it's ok.. we always have the src... always.. often Apr 15 12:49:15 koupsaa, currently i use an ubuntu on my samsung, but i m not happy with it Apr 15 12:49:44 it s well good for my desktop pc ... but the ui isn't really what i need on the netbook Apr 15 12:51:14 as like you Apr 15 12:51:35 and maemo on my phone :) Apr 15 12:52:12 slaine: did you see the new macbook pro? Apr 15 12:52:16 :) netbook and spip is actually my phone ! Apr 15 12:52:29 CosmoHill: drool, yes Apr 15 12:52:46 thankfully, mines not so out of date that I feel the need to upgrade just yet Apr 15 12:52:54 mine is 5 years old Apr 15 12:52:59 well 4 and a half Apr 15 12:53:05 it's still pre-intel Apr 15 12:53:07 nod Apr 15 12:53:19 pricey though Apr 15 12:53:23 poor thing has eletrical tape on it Apr 15 12:53:32 lol, a venerable laptop Apr 15 12:54:08 my friend thinks that the screw mount has snapped so there is nothing holding the left side of the screen together Apr 15 12:54:27 so it puts a lot of pressure on the screen bezel which will bend and snap Apr 15 12:55:24 should I use moblin-image-creator or is there any meego-image-creator? Apr 15 12:56:09 drizztbsd: the wiki has all the details on what versions to get for meego Apr 15 12:56:33 http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation Apr 15 12:56:34 slaine: http://cosmo1847.co.uk/?page=laptop :) Apr 15 12:56:35 iirc Apr 15 12:57:32 CosmoHill: awe, OS X 10.4, how quaint Apr 15 12:58:06 I've heard that performance in 10.5 is not so good on powerpc Apr 15 12:59:21 we've gotten to the point where sometimes we bring in power strips to use with our laptops Apr 15 12:59:38 My mbp's battery is dead Apr 15 12:59:46 I'm on my 3rd Apr 15 12:59:57 1st was a fire hazard that apple replaced Apr 15 13:00:07 2nd is about 20~40 mins Apr 15 13:00:11 it's my old one, my wife uses it now and doesn't mind it being plugged in Apr 15 13:00:19 it gets to 50% battery then just powers off Apr 15 13:00:30 dead cell Apr 15 13:00:43 I spent £100 on my new one from belgium Apr 15 13:00:57 nearest computer shop that spoke english :/ Apr 15 13:01:02 and sold it Apr 15 13:02:41 lol Apr 15 13:02:51 morning anaZ Apr 15 13:04:07 I've gotten used to the GUI and the programs I use Apr 15 13:04:11 and I don't want to change them Apr 15 13:04:29 and the only way to keep them on a new computer would be to buy a mac Apr 15 13:06:20 is there a way to view a log so you can see it when it gets updated Apr 15 13:06:24 like cat or grep or something Apr 15 13:06:53 CosmoHill: what gets updated ? Apr 15 13:07:00 say auth.log Apr 15 13:10:27 or an irc chat log Apr 15 13:10:34 tail? Apr 15 13:10:34 :P Apr 15 13:10:35 so whenever something was added to the log you could see it Apr 15 13:10:36 tail -f Apr 15 13:11:07 ooo Apr 15 13:11:33 maybe grep so I only get the last line of the log Apr 15 13:12:09 ... Apr 15 13:12:56 at the moment everytime I say something the whole log gets refreshed Apr 15 13:16:35 tail -f is what you want Apr 15 13:17:35 I use tail -f input but everytime something is added to the input file it seems to display the whole file again Apr 15 13:17:49 ah i think i know why Apr 15 13:18:07 i think it's the way the program uses the input file Apr 15 13:18:25 yes cos it's not just added to the end it's also removing a line further up Apr 15 13:20:35 Thought so. Apr 15 13:20:39 thanks for your help guys :) Apr 15 13:20:56 I was just being sneezy and wondering if I could read a bot's output logs Apr 15 13:21:15 it doesn't log the channel, only the last thing a person said Apr 15 14:07:42 * CosmoHill blinks cos someone has put windows 98 on a nokia 6220c Apr 15 14:07:55 someone who doesn't know how to edit videos Apr 15 14:16:54 * CosmoHill wonders if the Nokia Booklet 3G will run meego Apr 15 14:21:15 CosmoHill: No Apr 15 14:21:35 * CosmoHill wonders why the 6220c isn't listed on nokia's support page Apr 15 14:21:40 as that poor poor netbook has the infamous GMA500/poulsbo chipset Apr 15 14:21:56 i meant future versions Apr 15 14:35:58 * CosmoHill is listening to "This is Dubstep Vol.2" and programming his assignment (C++) Apr 15 14:36:53 * slaine is trying to stay awake after sleepless night with teething baby and trying to get Fedora13 running on his SetTopBox project Apr 15 14:53:11 * Stskeeps yawns Apr 15 14:53:25 * CosmoHill offers Stskeeps some tea Apr 15 14:53:28 thanks Apr 15 14:54:20 dammit Apr 15 14:54:32 I keep typing two 'i' in point Apr 15 14:54:42 but only when programming Apr 15 14:55:13 i have some 'twitches' in some words as well, - i mean, i spell most words correct, but some i always fail at Apr 15 14:55:16 :P Apr 15 14:56:44 hm, ducompositor just changed it's name as mcompositor Apr 15 14:56:47 I get or and of mixed up constantly Apr 15 14:57:02 * rsalveti is thinking if this is going to be default for meego or just for nokia version of meego Apr 15 14:57:23 I think it's something todo with the shift since I spell it wrong when it's a capital P Apr 15 14:57:33 rsalveti: dui's new name is meego touch, i think Apr 15 14:57:38 but when it's a lower case p and I spell point just fine Apr 15 14:58:07 Stskeeps: yeah, but do you know if this is going to be the default for meego in mobile touch based devices? Apr 15 14:58:19 rsalveti: no idea Apr 15 14:58:27 I know it's going to be for "harmattan", but don't know if it's going to be the generic implementation Apr 15 15:00:54 rsalveti: wait and see I guess Apr 15 15:20:11 * TSCHAKeee2 imagines prefixing all the classes with MeegoTouch and screams Apr 15 15:20:14 haha Apr 15 15:20:16 :P Apr 15 15:22:36 MeeGo Touch Grass Apr 15 15:22:36 :P Apr 15 15:22:51 lol TSCHAKeee2 Apr 15 15:23:17 Stskeeps: that's more politically correct than what my mind came up with Apr 15 15:23:20 damn marketing people Apr 15 15:23:50 i'm still waiting for the handset ux code to be dropped Apr 15 15:24:20 "Why would you want that? It's not like you can make your own handset! Only us big adult corporate manufacturers can do that!" Apr 15 15:24:24 :( Apr 15 15:24:31 * w00t_ didn't note anyone saying that Apr 15 15:25:01 w00t_: that's what it feels like Apr 15 15:25:18 the embedded systems community is a good ol' boys club. Apr 15 15:26:53 I think that there's probably a lot of people trying to make a lot of changes to the way they work, so hopefully things will change for the better soon as the rewards of that start to be felt Apr 15 15:27:01 Stskeeps: I think your mail this morning is a bit relevant to this discussion.. Apr 15 15:28:02 TSCHAKeee2: i think it all bends down to how team work is done, which i've tried to elaborate a bit in http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-April/001612.html Apr 15 15:35:21 * TSCHAKeee2 hugs Stskeeps Apr 15 15:35:25 thank you for that. Apr 15 15:35:35 heh :) Apr 15 15:35:53 TSCHAKeee2: basically I think you should always assume good faith unless there is hard evidence otherwise Apr 15 15:36:35 i'm both german and irish, that is.. i'm hardwired for pessimism :P Apr 15 15:49:30 I wonder Apr 15 15:49:40 I ponder Apr 15 15:49:40 are all the IDF demos etc, still using Clutter at this point? Apr 15 15:49:44 it sure as hell looks like it Apr 15 15:59:51 TSCHAKeee2: yes they are Apr 15 16:00:09 ok Apr 15 16:00:09 It was confirmed at the First TSG that this would be the case Apr 15 16:00:16 and I'm fully Irish ;) Apr 15 16:00:27 i really like clutter Apr 15 16:00:30 me too Apr 15 16:00:31 but i also like Qt Apr 15 16:00:38 I was happy it's still hanging around Apr 15 16:00:50 i'm having to make some very Apr 15 16:00:53 tough decisions Apr 15 16:00:56 for my project Apr 15 16:00:58 of course, GNOME 3.0 will be using clutter extensively in gnom-shell Apr 15 16:01:14 and all of the other core devs are looking at me like I am fucking crazy Apr 15 16:01:19 so clutter won't be going anywhere even if MeeGo move on UI wise to something Qt based Apr 15 16:01:31 why would I go off and move the entire stack to a system that might not be around long (referring to MeeGo) Apr 15 16:02:05 so of the few developers we have Apr 15 16:02:11 i am basically alone in moving a 4 million line codebase Apr 15 16:02:15 nice Apr 15 16:02:27 to something, that every time i look at it Apr 15 16:02:32 I'm basing off Fedora until MeeGo can prove it's open Apr 15 16:02:33 is EXACTLY what LinuxMCE should be running on Apr 15 16:02:53 i mean dear god, MeeGo is targeting exactly the same devices we are. Apr 15 16:03:02 feck, better pack up or I'll miss the bus Apr 15 16:03:06 Catch you all tomorrow Apr 15 16:03:25 (even the IVI stuff, there WAS at one point, an experimental version of Pluto that ran in an Audi car as a demonstration for Audi.) Apr 15 16:03:52 mmm... I... V.... I... Apr 15 16:04:03 I'm going to get a Congatec kit soon Apr 15 16:04:12 for your car? Apr 15 16:04:20 or just for kicks? Apr 15 16:04:26 for my girlfriend's car eventually, but Apr 15 16:04:37 it's all part of my research Apr 15 16:04:43 to get LinuxMCE into EVERYTHING Apr 15 16:05:01 TSCHAKeee2, i believe LinuxICE is probably better in the car than LinuxMCE ;) Apr 15 16:05:27 that's what i run Apr 15 16:05:30 in my car Apr 15 16:06:01 linuxMCE is much more than a media center Apr 15 16:06:03 Lot of Asian interests in the room Apr 15 16:06:03 it's a smart home platform Apr 15 16:06:23 Samsung, Sony, LG, TI, Qualcomm Apr 15 16:06:34 TI's hardly asian.. Apr 15 16:06:34 :P Apr 15 16:06:39 Arjan is introducing MeeGo Apr 15 16:06:41 er, yeah Apr 15 16:06:49 room? Apr 15 16:06:52 is there a stream? Apr 15 16:06:55 Lots of reps from various electronics companies Apr 15 16:07:04 Don't see any cameras in the room Apr 15 16:07:09 I suspect some of them see this as a means of escaping LiMo Apr 15 16:07:16 koupsaa: have adopted moblin on my netbook :) Apr 15 16:07:17 Myrtti's recording, though. Apr 15 16:07:25 gAN900: can you gauge the interest of the reps in the room? this is important. Apr 15 16:07:37 tripzero, LF Summit, MeeGo room Apr 15 16:07:49 oh wrong chan .. Apr 15 16:07:52 keep typing Apr 15 16:07:52 oh... /me is not there... Apr 15 16:07:52 TSCHAKeee2, seems high Apr 15 16:07:59 oh no ... Apr 15 16:08:06 I know LG is very interested, anyway Apr 15 16:08:13 Sony/Ericson, too. Apr 15 16:08:16 I thought LG wanted to create their own OS Apr 15 16:08:24 maybe they just want to fork MeeGo Apr 15 16:08:26 Hey gan900 you make me think i post in the wrong chan by your presence :) Apr 15 16:08:49 microlith, you gonna make it for today? Apr 15 16:08:50 * microlith tries not to wander down the cynical path Apr 15 16:09:08 microlith, yeah, we'll see. . . . Apr 15 16:09:20 no, made a call on not going, then got told 3 hours later "you can go, if you want" Apr 15 16:09:26 TSCHAKeee2, linuxICE is pretty powerful. I use it for car automation... I'm sure it could integrate with MCE fairly easily Apr 15 16:09:41 tripzero: of course :) Apr 15 16:09:49 so I'm a touch irate Apr 15 16:09:53 microlith, lol Apr 15 16:09:54 heh Apr 15 16:10:23 Arjan is showing the platform arch diagram. Apr 15 16:10:31 ah yes, the layer cake Apr 15 16:10:36 no stream ? Apr 15 16:10:42 GAN900: thank you for doing this btw :) Apr 15 16:11:28 LG joined the Linux Fondation this week Apr 15 16:11:30 TSCHAKeee2, check the #maemo logs if you want the summary of Ari's talk Apr 15 16:11:53 and bergie has been summarizing all talks to his qaiku. Apr 15 16:12:03 where is his qaiku? Apr 15 16:12:12 having no streaming video at tech announce is like watching football o nthe radio Apr 15 16:12:23 GAN900 is once again being super! Apr 15 16:13:30 GAN900: bonus points if you can identify sharp/panasonic/toshiba/nec, or kddi/ntt/softbank Apr 15 16:13:39 that would tell a lot Apr 15 16:14:06 http://www.qaiku.com/go/6oj9/ Apr 15 16:14:26 yay nomovok :) Apr 15 16:15:03 microlith, not that I've noticed so far. Apr 15 16:16:21 * GAN900 tried to use Maps on the Nexus One this morning to complete fail. Apr 15 16:19:42 Mid-talk QA I don't feel like transcribing. :P Apr 15 16:20:12 any RPM vs deb questions yet? Apr 15 16:20:13 :P Apr 15 16:20:19 Nerp Apr 15 16:20:50 Ronan called my bugs/bugzilla.meego.com thread stupid, though. :( Apr 15 16:20:52 Stskeeps: not when you're within beating distance :) Apr 15 16:21:04 how about "can I have an account on the build system please?" Apr 15 16:21:22 lbt, they're talking arch Apr 15 16:21:27 I'll attend MeeGo Workring Group from irc and from Japan :) Apr 15 16:21:39 GAN900: could you ask where the mailing list for the architects are? Apr 15 16:21:40 :P Apr 15 16:21:47 lol Apr 15 16:21:52 (honest question) Apr 15 16:22:11 yes... Imad said this was discussed in the open.... where? Apr 15 16:22:12 mitsutaka: is there a WG scheduled for Japan? Apr 15 16:22:49 GAN900: if you ask one question... make it around that point :) Apr 15 16:22:54 * GAN900 thinks there's a cloistered discussion somewhere. Apr 15 16:23:05 that's the point... Apr 15 16:23:25 yeah Apr 15 16:23:34 Mostly here, in the building Apr 15 16:23:36 microlith: 21th of Apr, MeeGo Seminar Spling will hold in Japan :) Apr 15 16:23:44 Imad, Ari and others are missing from the room. . . . Apr 15 16:23:45 aww, too soon Apr 15 16:23:45 GAN900: yesterday I said "the community would like to help Nokia and Intel audit their openness claims" Apr 15 16:23:55 Spling -> Spring Apr 15 16:24:00 if it were later this year I'd try to make it :) Apr 15 16:24:36 for now I'll settle for getting japanese input on my N900 working Apr 15 16:25:11 microlith: Do you use the maemocjk package? Apr 15 16:25:28 * GAN900 saw somebody using an N900 with Japanese. Apr 15 16:25:51 I tried previously, one used unfamiliar romaji and the other only worked with the soft keyboard (which I could never get to come up.) Apr 15 16:26:32 GAN900: sounds good Apr 15 16:27:51 microlith: I know, It has been problem yet that input Japanese only soft keyboard. Apr 15 16:28:36 It couldn't launch scim when I take ctrl + shift or space. Apr 15 16:29:30 II wanted to participate in local... want to go to SF! Apr 15 16:30:46 my program is going well :) Apr 15 16:32:22 Here's the deb vs rpm question Apr 15 16:32:27 lol Apr 15 16:32:41 GAN900: Please tell me the guy on stage went *facepalm* ;) Apr 15 16:32:41 here's my sword Apr 15 16:33:02 Talking about OBS Apr 15 16:33:13 =||====> Apr 15 16:33:22 They seem to be saying that RPM is required for MeeGo compatibility Apr 15 16:33:33 oh dear Apr 15 16:33:35 Which puts Harmattan in violation of that. :rolleyes: Apr 15 16:33:36 here we go again Apr 15 16:34:01 the real argument isn't that, it's much more sane :/ Apr 15 16:35:50 GAN900: is his talk / video thing now? Apr 15 16:35:57 hmm.. My hope is keeping use rpm, bcoz I continue to use from the time of moblin. Apr 15 16:36:44 as far as i know very few distros have swapped package managers from deb to rpm or visa versa Apr 15 16:36:57 once you've picked one of them it's best to stick with it Apr 15 16:37:15 after working a while with rpm, i'm fairly happy with it Apr 15 16:37:22 repo.meego.com vs bugzilla.meego.com Apr 15 16:37:23 Ugh Apr 15 16:37:25 well there's some heck of a distro who swapped deb to rpm right around here :) Apr 15 16:37:29 CosmoHill, not streamed Apr 15 16:37:35 being recored, though. Apr 15 16:37:40 ah okay cool Apr 15 16:37:47 GAN900: cool Apr 15 16:37:50 I hope it's not in flash :o Apr 15 16:38:03 Be sure to thank Myrtti! Apr 15 16:38:11 * CosmoHill sticks his laptop on reduces performance to cool it down a bit Apr 15 16:39:53 * lbt proposes the smart package manager... Apr 15 16:39:56 it's because of people like me text editors have find and replace all :/ Apr 15 16:40:33 BTW Chrome OS was adopted portage by Gentoo Apr 15 16:40:34 I can't spell success or edge and I keep spelling point with two Is Apr 15 16:40:37 lol: http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4523768010/ Apr 15 16:40:52 mitsutaka: that sounds...painful Apr 15 16:41:02 isn't Chrome OS targeted at netbooks / nettops? Apr 15 16:41:30 devices known for they outstanding performance, especially when compiling packages Apr 15 16:41:45 GAN900: you at the meeting? Apr 15 16:42:01 CosmoHill, MeeGo track at the LF Summit. Apr 15 16:42:07 sweet Apr 15 16:42:26 * Robot101 should probably go :) Apr 15 16:42:49 I couldn't go even if I wanted too Apr 15 16:42:51 was just putting our press release up on the website Apr 15 16:42:56 http://www.collabora.co.uk/press/2010/04/join-linux-foundation.html Apr 15 16:42:59 wooo yay etc Apr 15 16:43:00 UK airspace is closed atm Apr 15 16:43:23 yay Apr 15 16:44:00 What is happening over there? (Wants to go home on Friday) Apr 15 16:44:19 volcano in iceland Apr 15 16:44:29 flying planes through ash turns out to work badly Apr 15 16:44:29 Iceland volcano erupted and has thrown up a load of ash Apr 15 16:44:54 last time it happened BA had the world's biggest glider Apr 15 16:44:55 Poor icellanders, first the economy goes up in smoke and then this... Apr 15 16:45:07 747 - engines = bad Apr 15 16:45:41 Robot101: oo, Collabora is only 50 miles away Apr 15 16:46:20 hmm.. sleepy.. It's 1:46am JST Apr 15 16:46:27 JST? Apr 15 16:46:32 Japanese summer Time? Apr 15 16:46:52 GAN900: anything new to you in this meeting so far? Apr 15 16:46:54 i love that little hd camcorder Apr 15 16:46:59 Japan is no summer time. Apr 15 16:47:24 JST -> Japan Standard Time Apr 15 16:47:29 Robot101: so why isn't Meego using the smart pkg manager? Apr 15 16:47:58 Robot101: hmm, Collabora might be a company that could help me with my assignment since I need to find out how much it would cost to outsourse something Apr 15 16:49:04 maclaver, nope. Apr 15 16:49:21 I like http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4374755051/in/photostream/ :) Apr 15 16:49:34 Pity :-( Apr 15 16:50:02 It would be so much easier if we had the software. Apr 15 16:51:13 CosmoHill, lol Apr 15 16:52:28 CosmoHill: ...? assignment? Apr 15 16:52:42 I have a project managment assignment todo for university Apr 15 16:53:08 Robot101, extended stay if ash cloud doesnt clear? Apr 15 16:53:10 problem is it's very verge :/ Apr 15 16:53:25 app build service separate from platform Apr 15 16:53:32 tbd, mostly, though Apr 15 16:54:08 CosmoHill, it looks like they justs leaked the automotive UX... Apr 15 16:54:21 ooo Apr 15 16:54:37 I hope texting isn't enabled on that Apr 15 16:55:11 why not, its so fiddly using stylus and osk in car, i want big touchable buttons Apr 15 16:55:20 multiple appstores Apr 15 16:55:53 it's fine if you're parked up or stuck in traffic Apr 15 16:56:35 CosmoHill, biggest problem with sms in the car is having to turn the haridryer off - it inteferes with cell reception Apr 15 16:56:42 hairdryer Apr 15 16:57:12 I'd pay good moneey for a spoonful of honey Apr 15 16:57:21 mmmmeh Apr 15 16:58:19 Netbook UX hasn't been released yet right. Apr 15 16:59:12 It's Moblin Apr 15 17:00:49 Break time. Apr 15 17:01:04 zzz.. Apr 15 17:04:58 for now Apr 15 17:04:59 hi Apr 15 17:05:03 hello Apr 15 17:05:08 hi Apr 15 17:05:36 hi Apr 15 17:05:37 I've seen that in extra there is gnome... I haven't seen kde in any repo... am I blind or kde have not been packaged yet? Apr 15 17:06:05 I think it's the latter Apr 15 17:06:27 * fale would prefer the first xD Apr 15 17:06:39 would meego even have gnome or kde? Apr 15 17:06:54 not a full gnome either, iirc Apr 15 17:07:21 CosmoHill: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/extra/repo/ia32/os/i586/ <-- here you can find gnome (or, at least, pieces of) Apr 15 17:07:56 was it so that Ux is vendor specific Apr 15 17:08:20 only basic stuff comes with meego distro Apr 15 17:09:34 OldChap: I think that if something is in the repo this doesn't scritly means that you have to install it Apr 15 17:10:10 i didn't mean that Apr 15 17:11:26 fale: KDE is working on modularising kdelibs and friends, preparing for use on various handhelds (to enable packagers to only pull in certain features as required by applications) Apr 15 17:11:57 leinir: then we will not see kde in meego at least until 4.5 is released? Apr 15 17:12:00 has anyone got a multitouch computer (not a handheld) Apr 15 17:13:24 bamboo pen&touch supports multitouch Apr 15 17:13:27 fale: No - but at that time there's also going to be plasma-mobile, of course :) Apr 15 17:13:47 * CosmoHill is experiencing internet problems Apr 15 17:13:52 that's not a computer of course Apr 15 17:13:56 leinir: I see Apr 15 17:14:02 fale: well, the modularizing of kde will definitely take a while, but would really be nice to have the full one already there in some unofficil whatever repository :) Apr 15 17:14:13 fale: see also notmart's post on the mailing list ;) Apr 15 17:14:21 notmart: yes, I agree Apr 15 17:14:28 temp = temp->next(); << the amount of times I've missed this and gone into an infinite loop -.- Apr 15 17:15:26 notmart: when did you posted it? Apr 15 17:16:22 fale: yesterday Apr 15 17:16:30 notmart: cool, thankyou :) Apr 15 17:27:13 fale: I really think you're being sily Apr 15 17:27:21 fale: MeeGo is not a desktop Apr 15 17:30:22 its not only that, yes Apr 15 17:34:25 Restarting in 10 Apr 15 17:35:59 TSCHAKeee2: I don't see anything bad on a KDE on a D510 ;) Apr 15 17:36:34 *facepalm* Apr 15 17:36:42 way to think like a geek Apr 15 17:36:46 * TSCHAKeee2 walks away Apr 15 17:37:15 (D510 is more powerfull than the actual PC I'm working on...) Apr 15 17:37:23 fale: there isn't anything i can say to convince you that KDE is not a good fit for MeeGo, so...whatever. Apr 15 17:40:24 TSCHAKeee2: yes, you don't want something like kdevelop on a 4" display, however, kde is not only the kde -apps- (so qwidget based, requiring a mouse etc) Apr 15 17:45:16 is it weird that slipknot calms me down? Apr 15 17:45:52 CosmoHill, not really. for some people caffeine calms them down Apr 15 17:46:19 it probably helps that my assignment is going well Apr 15 17:47:11 Talk about the netbook UX from Novell. Apr 15 17:48:20 so novell has their own? Apr 15 17:48:23 eh Apr 15 17:48:25 heh Apr 15 17:48:40 awwww, dawn has tea :-< Apr 15 17:48:59 downstairs at the coffee table. :P Apr 15 17:54:11 * TSCHAKeee2 sets up a script to retweet GAN900 Apr 15 17:54:14 hehehehe Apr 15 17:58:09 Not a lot of interest in the netbook UX. ;) Apr 15 18:00:21 Hehe, that's not really that surprising :) Apr 15 18:01:50 hello Apr 15 18:18:55 this is why I have a bot that reponds to "hello" Apr 15 18:25:18 hi Apr 15 18:25:18 mic-create-bootstrap does not works Apr 15 18:26:18 that's ok Apr 15 18:29:02 now that i think about it Apr 15 18:29:28 MeeGo may be one step closer, to the dream environment i envisioned in the late 1980s, when I first saw the TRON microkernel Apr 15 18:29:46 (no, not the movie, there is an OS called TRON..japanese users in here will know what i am referring to) Apr 15 18:30:01 I've seen the NHK documentary on it :D Apr 15 18:30:10 i've used it Apr 15 18:30:15 developed on it Apr 15 18:30:36 amazing OS, but it is definitely waaay long in the tooth Apr 15 18:31:00 it still gets mileage due to its support for extremely obscure kanji, iirc Apr 15 18:31:03 i walked through the TRON demo house in 1991. Apr 15 18:31:10 stuff that's not even part of Unicode Apr 15 18:31:24 380 individual computer systems running some form of TRON Apr 15 18:31:36 managing every single aspect of home control Apr 15 18:31:52 and even with that amazing OS, they were not able to completely debug the thing, over a 5 year run. Apr 15 18:32:36 we can thank Microsoft for completely killing TRON's planned world domination Apr 15 18:32:42 yup Apr 15 18:32:59 (they were directly responsible for the threat they imposed to Fujitsu for releasing what would have been the first TRON PC) Apr 15 18:33:06 i think it was the name first Apr 15 18:33:15 everyone envisioned riding light cycles Apr 15 18:33:17 I'd probably be better with my japanese computer terminology if they hadn't :/ Apr 15 18:34:05 from a systems architecture standpoint it was amazing, it just didn't take into account what actually did happen in the intervening years with regards to advances in network infrastructure and CPU speeds. Apr 15 18:34:29 part of it does live on though, in iTRON. Apr 15 18:34:44 and some people have overlaid iTRON on top of Linux. Apr 15 18:53:03 lol Apr 15 18:53:21 ash cloud completely misses Ireland but covers GB Apr 15 18:55:43 hey guys Apr 15 18:55:55 wb slaine Apr 15 18:56:24 I'm thinking of writing an email to the -dev list, suming up our discussions earlier Apr 15 18:56:35 which one(s)? Apr 15 18:56:48 I think we need some honesty from the powers that be as to how open meego is supposed to be Apr 15 18:56:56 tail it in my thread? Apr 15 18:57:45 slaine: hear hear! Apr 15 18:58:08 and at least if it's not gonna be open all the way Apr 15 18:58:14 THEY SHOULD BUY US OFF WITH LOTS AND LOTS OF GEAR! Apr 15 18:58:18 :D Apr 15 18:58:29 are we speaking open development or open source.. Apr 15 18:58:37 both Apr 15 18:58:48 I'm talking community here Apr 15 18:58:58 :nod: Apr 15 18:59:00 but yes, emphasis on the community Apr 15 18:59:04 slaine: you saw my post right? Apr 15 18:59:09 slaine: #meego-dev Apr 15 18:59:34 and imad's discussion emphasis on things being discussed out in the open Apr 15 18:59:42 CosmoHill: that must be new Apr 15 19:00:28 are there snapshot builds of the netbook ux being done? Apr 15 19:00:37 Not publicly Apr 15 19:00:51 and the builder isn't open yet.. Apr 15 19:00:53 we where given a bare minimum of code in the day 1 drop Apr 15 19:00:55 ok Apr 15 19:01:02 yup i went through it Apr 15 19:01:05 bare is right Apr 15 19:01:07 yeek Apr 15 19:01:09 :) Apr 15 19:01:17 there's qt Apr 15 19:01:18 :P Apr 15 19:01:26 we were given plenty of code on day 1 Apr 15 19:01:29 and in my opinion, that was done on purpose so that they could get PR for Meego at IDF and Collab summit Apr 15 19:01:30 heheheheh Apr 15 19:01:41 i'm running a meego snapshot Apr 15 19:01:42 int main() { printf("hello world\n"); return 0; } Apr 15 19:01:44 from sometime in feb 2010 Apr 15 19:01:46 see, more code ^ Apr 15 19:02:03 and boy howdy is it flakier than a french pastry Apr 15 19:02:25 my girlfriend is jealous of it though Apr 15 19:02:28 ;) Apr 15 19:03:00 i had to do something newer than moblin 2.1, because my Asus 1005HA has an ath9k, which, had constant epileptic fits under Moblin. Apr 15 19:03:42 * TSCHAKeee2 imitates spastic seizure boy impressions Apr 15 19:04:01 slaine: i think instead of pointing out the issues, indicating support for my proposal might be another way to get things on track Apr 15 19:04:04 (yes, it is OKAY for me to do so, I have complex partial seizures) :P Apr 15 19:04:18 I support the proposal Apr 15 19:04:30 so how do we show support? by..buying you a beer, or..? ;) Apr 15 19:05:07 I'm conflicted as to what to do Apr 15 19:05:13 I want to voice my concerns Apr 15 19:05:30 well, that too, but helping shape it and commenting, or mentioning cases where your contributions were difficult to make because of Don'ts, etc Apr 15 19:05:32 slaine: buying people beers is always a good thing to do :D Apr 15 19:05:46 I want to find out if I've got the wrong end of the stick as regards how open this is supposed to be Apr 15 19:05:54 TSCHAKeee2: if anyone was around here I would Apr 15 19:06:06 I'm off for a few pints in about 10 mins, hmmmm, Guiness Apr 15 19:06:12 Guinness even. Apr 15 19:06:14 slaine: as far as i can tell, TSG wants to push things in the right direction, but they also have to fight a lot of company habit Apr 15 19:06:15 mmmm Apr 15 19:06:25 slaine, there are a lot of people currently huddled together in america - since they might be staying a bit longer Apr 15 19:06:38 i would imagine that wait and see might be in order Apr 15 19:06:44 lcuk: the won't be getting back to the uk any time soon :) Apr 15 19:06:45 and if you want to feel proactive Apr 15 19:06:47 help Stskeeps Apr 15 19:06:50 slaine: i'm not 100% sure TSG is actually running the full show, and a lot of rogue teams showing off their stuff Apr 15 19:06:58 / marketing pushing things out Apr 15 19:07:03 rogue teams? Apr 15 19:07:04 Stskeeps: good point Apr 15 19:07:15 the device i saw appeared to be one by company for a while Apr 15 19:07:21 But there's clearly too much happening internally Apr 15 19:07:22 lcuk: you know, the guys doing the Handset UX, and the TV UX... ;) Apr 15 19:07:43 vendors like OpenPeak Apr 15 19:07:58 which, btw guys, it is very doubtful that OpenPeak will EVER sell directly to end users Apr 15 19:08:06 they make products for others to sell Apr 15 19:08:26 Partly my upset comes from the fact that I predicted exactly what's happened over the last few weeks and I was hoping I was wrong Apr 15 19:08:26 and really wouldn't give a flying fuck about individuals Apr 15 19:08:29 yeah its also doubtful that a tyre company could become the largest mobile phone company on earth Apr 15 19:08:49 OpenPeak isn't a tyre company Apr 15 19:09:00 they're an industrial design firm Apr 15 19:09:03 nokia was :) companies change and reinvent themselves Apr 15 19:09:07 you should never say never Apr 15 19:09:11 oh that's right Apr 15 19:09:15 duh Apr 15 19:09:18 ;) Apr 15 19:09:22 slaine: i feel like a fool too, but i keep telling myself we should fight for openness Apr 15 19:09:33 and point out where there's flaws and how we -should- be doing things Apr 15 19:09:42 Stskeeps: you are doing the right thing. Apr 15 19:09:49 Stskeeps: there is no question of that. Apr 15 19:09:59 Stskeeps: but they know all this, they've chosen not to do it Apr 15 19:10:16 slaine: "we should be doing this but nobody else is" is hardly an incentive to do it Apr 15 19:10:32 I'd have thought that one was obvious Apr 15 19:10:43 it will always be easier to keep with the status quo rather than make waves Apr 15 19:10:52 the embedded systems market has traditionally been VERY VERY HUSH HUSH handshake Apr 15 19:11:00 w00t_: if you listened to the talks yesterday, you'd think everything was perfect Apr 15 19:11:14 slaine: there's a lot of powers to be fought and i can only imagine that TSG has had a lot on their hands even taming their own teams Apr 15 19:11:17 slaine: but I've been doing more than just listening to the marketing bullshit :P Apr 15 19:11:17 they've been working like this for 30 years Apr 15 19:11:38 it's one thing to say you do things and pay lip service - it's another to actually do it Apr 15 19:11:41 Yeah Apr 15 19:11:43 and the two are totally disconnected Apr 15 19:11:45 I know Apr 15 19:11:47 thanks guys Apr 15 19:11:53 I've calmed down a little now Apr 15 19:12:04 i keep holding out hope Apr 15 19:12:10 patience Apr 15 19:12:18 that a truly open embedded systems platform will emerge Apr 15 19:12:22 TSCHAKeee2, whatever the case: Apr 15 19:12:23 I don't want to go off the handle and become a pariah Apr 15 19:12:26 I think that raising it on the ML was the right thing to do, now let's see what comes Apr 15 19:12:28 ux can be rewritten by anyone Apr 15 19:12:31 that is inexpensive for any fab to make one-offs. Apr 15 19:12:55 slaine: if you don't get pissed off once in a while, you aren't fighting hard enough :) Apr 15 19:13:01 lol, truee Apr 15 19:13:08 my problem is, i get pissed off too often Apr 15 19:13:11 :P Apr 15 19:13:18 TSCHAKeee2: that's the irish man in you Apr 15 19:13:27 ;) Apr 15 19:13:28 lets get pissed and have a fight Apr 15 19:13:31 heheheh Apr 15 19:13:47 I do not want another TiVO Apr 15 19:13:50 be gah and be gahrah Apr 15 19:14:02 i do not want a whole INDUSTRY of TiVOs Apr 15 19:14:14 oh yes, look at us, we use free software Apr 15 19:14:19 "can we change it?" Apr 15 19:14:23 "no" Apr 15 19:14:38 TSCHAKeee2, then start on the road to it yourself Apr 15 19:14:50 scratch that itch Apr 15 19:14:58 TSCHAKeee2: i don't doubt that the core system will be fully open source, hardware adaptations may have some closed source and hardware vendors might add in differentiation apps to the mix. Apr 15 19:15:04 right, I'm off for those beers Apr 15 19:15:06 lcuk: I am trying. trust me, the work i am doing on LinuxMCE is a handful unto itself. Apr 15 19:15:06 TSCHAKeee2: even that is a huge step forward Apr 15 19:15:08 I'll catch you tomorrow Apr 15 19:15:17 yes. Apr 15 19:15:18 be gentle with me, I might have too many ;) Apr 15 19:15:24 I have wanted beers for the past week Apr 15 19:15:25 when you see black Apr 15 19:15:28 I'm going nuts :P Apr 15 19:15:28 you've drank too much, Apr 15 19:15:31 ;) Apr 15 19:15:37 laters Apr 15 19:16:14 From: Slaine's Liver, To: Slaine: Subject: Dear John Letter. I know we're irish, but.. I quit.. seriously.. later. -Your Liver Apr 15 19:16:17 :P Apr 15 19:17:18 * TSCHAKeee2 continues looking for a job... is nervous :( Apr 15 19:17:38 * CosmoHill hugs TSCHAKeee2 Apr 15 19:17:55 thanks Apr 15 19:18:19 been out since March..and I'm getting really really nervous Apr 15 19:18:32 sooo do not want a repeat of LAST YEAR Apr 15 19:18:46 last job i had was 2007 Apr 15 19:18:59 i was down to lint pancakes there at the end of 2009 Apr 15 19:22:29 wow, novell managed to push mono into meego Apr 15 19:22:49 ugh Apr 15 19:23:02 why does meego need mono? Apr 15 19:23:17 oh dear god Apr 15 19:23:33 *bang-head-against-wall* Apr 15 19:23:41 no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no Apr 15 19:23:46 sigh Apr 15 19:23:49 it's a runtime like any other Apr 15 19:24:02 yeah... Apr 15 19:24:14 Stskeeps: go tell MS to stop making patent noise and I'll care less Apr 15 19:24:33 well, at least we're not discussing rpm vs deb Apr 15 19:24:36 hahahahaha Apr 15 19:25:43 i'm concerned more with UI concerns between apps in the gtk and qt camps... Apr 15 19:25:48 Stskeeps: it's not quite "like any other" Apr 15 19:26:24 but still, it is nice novell joined on, the more the better Apr 15 19:26:37 i just hope we can kill any snakes in the garden Apr 15 19:27:30 doesn't ubuntu have mono now too? Apr 15 19:27:37 yup Apr 15 19:27:54 also, mono is an most excellent disease to have. think i lost a summer of hacking to that as a teen. Apr 15 19:28:13 * lbt stands by his "ugh" :) Apr 15 19:28:35 lol @ Stskeeps Apr 15 19:30:40 you know, with the embedded form of qt, egl support, and the mali200 driver, i think a full meego UX could be made for the smartQ V7... ;) Apr 15 19:30:54 there are many devices done with QWS Apr 15 19:30:59 including a phone Apr 15 19:30:59 (the mali200 driver does work on the smartQ v7 beautifully, but it is EGL only) Apr 15 19:31:04 remember the Greenphone? Apr 15 19:31:07 oh yes Apr 15 19:31:35 this smartq V7 is a wonderful device, but it needs a better environment Apr 15 19:31:54 and the android on it is half baked at best Apr 15 19:31:59 and that was woefully underpowered Apr 15 19:32:36 I think that's comparable to an S40 of today, not even Symbian, much less MeeGo, Android and iPhone Apr 15 19:32:56 yup that would make sense Apr 15 19:33:57 thiago_home: are there any interesting gotchas to watch out for when using pure openGL ES as the painter for everything? Apr 15 19:37:13 not that I know of Apr 15 19:39:19 ok Apr 15 19:39:46 wait, is the source for uxlaunch in the code drop? Apr 15 19:43:39 TSCHAKeee2: there's a mali200 driver that works on v7? Apr 15 19:43:50 oh yes Apr 15 19:43:55 borischka got it working Apr 15 19:43:58 but no X Apr 15 19:44:05 it's just a straight OpenGL ES to framebuffer Apr 15 19:44:18 ah Apr 15 19:44:30 did i just see your heart sink? Apr 15 19:48:24 * CosmoHill noms rhubarb and custard Apr 15 19:51:19 * TSCHAKeee2 eats evil food Apr 15 19:51:54 big mac? Apr 15 19:54:08 CosmoHill: beer battered bacon double quarter pounder Apr 15 19:54:12 no, just kidding Apr 15 19:54:18 i had some eggs benedict earlier. ;) Apr 15 19:54:35 benedict? Apr 15 19:55:08 english muffin, grilled, split in halves.. on each slice, a slice of ham, and a poached egg, covered in hollendaise sauce Apr 15 19:55:33 I'd drool if I wasn't full Apr 15 19:56:30 the perfect breakfast, both sober, and with a hangover Apr 15 19:56:33 ;) Apr 15 19:56:44 I've only had 3 or 4 hang overs in my life :) Apr 15 19:56:51 damn you vodka Apr 15 19:57:01 on vodka? Apr 15 19:57:03 wow Apr 15 19:57:08 um.. i've lost count Apr 15 19:57:25 but my primary alcohol preference is 18+ year old scotch Apr 15 19:57:33 (Lagavulin 16 being the exception) Apr 15 19:59:35 last time I had vodka I was already drunk Apr 15 19:59:39 (I\m a light weight) Apr 15 20:03:21 Quim's doing a "Normal day in the MeeGo project" Apr 15 20:03:23 ohai. yes, I've got an HD camera Apr 15 20:03:32 _o/ Apr 15 20:04:00 wake up, have breakfast Apr 15 20:04:06 read email, then go to work, read more email Apr 15 20:04:10 GAN900: please make notes, curious how it -is supposed- to be like :P Apr 15 20:04:13 IRC! Apr 15 20:04:14 * CosmoHill is watching the three party leaders discuess / aruge Apr 15 20:07:38 Two main driving forces: oss projects (upstream) and MeeGo working groups Apr 15 20:08:26 working groups plural? Apr 15 20:08:38 lbt, yeah, yeah. :P Apr 15 20:08:59 * GAN900 keeps seeing different device segments diagramed as working groups Apr 15 20:09:15 Who knows what the fsck a working group actually is, though. Apr 15 20:09:26 Nobody here, really, so far as I can tell. Apr 15 20:10:04 TSG is really high-level . . . blah blah blah Apr 15 20:10:24 if someone needs to go to TSG, something is really really badly wrong. Apr 15 20:10:24 lbt what are youworking on at the moment Apr 15 20:10:27 or something Apr 15 20:10:35 Diagraming handset/netbook/ivi WGs next to the TSG Apr 15 20:10:47 RWG notes and image building on OBS Apr 15 20:14:24 lbt, based on the obs thing - when the official obs system comes online for meego will it be practical for companies to easily drag build system to their own servers Apr 15 20:14:49 if they wanted to continue working on integrating their components Apr 15 20:14:52 sure, they'll just need a little consultancy... Apr 15 20:15:02 * lbt grins and holds up a sign Apr 15 20:15:28 "get your OBS consultancy here, 5 for a pound (or so)" Apr 15 20:15:45 :) Apr 15 20:16:17 can you sync between obs instances (since its all git under the hood Apr 15 20:16:33 not sync Apr 15 20:16:51 companyA makes their own private build system so they can work on mega application AA Apr 15 20:16:59 yes Apr 15 20:17:02 but every now and then they want to pull the latest components in Apr 15 20:17:11 there are a lot of techniques depending on what you want to do Apr 15 20:17:12 for meego base stuff Apr 15 20:17:39 Meego appears to be doing weekly snapshots Apr 15 20:17:51 those make sense Apr 15 20:18:09 well a weekly snapshot might not be right Apr 15 20:18:17 unless you can append to an image Apr 15 20:18:28 with secret company software AA Apr 15 20:18:33 and instlal on all company machines Apr 15 20:18:33 snapshot of the repos including src Apr 15 20:18:42 and yes, there's a *lot* you can do Apr 15 20:18:59 im just wondering how interested parties will be working Apr 15 20:19:08 what you're talking about is establishing a QA process and managing the baseline OS Apr 15 20:19:18 assuming some companies like cathederal model Apr 15 20:19:21 you want to track it to avoid disruption Apr 15 20:19:40 but you don't want changes in the baseline to screw with your internal scheduling Apr 15 20:20:19 no, so the OBS machine inside big company A and the mechanics servicing it Apr 15 20:20:32 need to know how to bring it up to latest Apr 15 20:21:08 all hypothetical of course Apr 15 20:21:14 :) Apr 15 20:22:00 the OBS is a build system... what you need is to setup some workflows around it Apr 15 20:22:43 it/you can easily manage the sync with upstream Apr 15 20:23:03 and if you want a live connection - that works too Apr 15 20:23:44 cool Apr 15 20:23:44 so you build your code on your private instance using up-to-the-second changes on the public OBS Apr 15 20:37:03 Talking code, trunk, git, upstream, patches Apr 15 20:37:11 /snooze Apr 15 20:38:03 heh Apr 15 20:38:24 lbt, gonna have to wait for Myrtti's video. :P Apr 15 20:38:28 yeah, my brain turned off a good while ago Apr 15 20:38:33 fortunately the camera works Apr 15 20:38:44 keep it level Myrtti Apr 15 20:38:58 it's on a gorillapod on the back of a chair Apr 15 20:39:24 Except arjan keeps smacking the chair while gestulating. :P Apr 15 20:39:33 yup Apr 15 20:39:49 ok, now the camera is running on fumes Apr 15 20:40:03 GAN900: watch out, I migth do a lunge for it soon Apr 15 20:45:30 lcuk: yeah will probably go over to montreal with burger Apr 15 20:45:57 Robot101, yeah its a bit smoggy over here Apr 15 20:46:05 that was fun Apr 15 20:46:38 almost snapped a fingernail ;___; Apr 15 20:46:44 :O Apr 15 20:46:54 lcuk: :/ Apr 15 20:47:05 lbt: sorry, I had to change the batteries. Apr 15 20:47:16 close call then ;) Apr 15 20:47:20 Robot101, do they still do atlantic cruises? Apr 15 20:47:34 where was this meeting again? Apr 15 20:47:44 lcuk: lol Apr 15 20:47:51 I wonder what kind of bribery I need to do to get BF to edit these videos before uploading Apr 15 20:47:54 hmm, meego summit on a cruise liner in the fjords... Apr 15 20:48:07 atleast stich the two pieces of this session in one Apr 15 20:48:12 lbt++ Apr 15 20:48:17 ;P Apr 15 20:49:01 i think the volcano was a worldwide conspiracy to give nokians and other meego participants a longer holiday Apr 15 20:49:25 lcuk: say that to my wife :-) Apr 15 20:49:44 maclaver, i cant now, shes in the shower Apr 15 20:49:50 I wish I could use that as an excuse Apr 15 20:49:59 I don't think that a small volcano is a good enough excuse for her. Apr 15 20:50:10 lol maclaver Apr 15 20:50:18 my missus would be the same Apr 15 20:50:30 they say 48h before the stuff falls out of the sky or spreads out enough Apr 15 20:50:38 aw. I wish Quim would draw bunnies and flowers Apr 15 20:50:52 Myrtti, hes whiteboarding? Apr 15 20:50:54 He's not good at bunnies. Apr 15 20:51:02 lcuk: indeed Apr 15 20:51:22 * lcuk mutters something about interactive internet enabled ones Apr 15 20:51:35 Tufte would be proud, no powerpoint, go Quim go. Apr 15 20:52:38 someone make rolf harris wobble board noises or shout "can you tell what it is yet?" Apr 15 20:53:07 lcuk: X-D Apr 15 20:58:47 nite all, sweet dreams Apr 15 21:20:27 I don't know how I'll manage with the last session Apr 15 21:20:40 what is on now? Apr 15 21:20:51 the camera holds 2 hours of video, and copying it to HD takes about 15-20 mins Apr 15 21:21:18 thiago_home: http://events.linuxfoundation.org/lfcs2010/meego-workgroup#holtmann Apr 15 21:22:01 Thiago_home: bluetooth/tethering. Apr 15 21:23:44 Connectivity Apr 15 21:24:46 I at least would've been OK with non-HD video, no need to. Apr 15 21:24:55 now you're gonna spend a eternity recoding it :) Apr 15 21:25:22 It wont be up until 8 months later like Jamie's videos from the Summit. ;) Apr 15 21:25:43 javispedro: it's a Flipcam, I have the magnificent UI of four buttons. On/Off, Play, Delete and Record. It can do Zoom as well. Apr 15 21:25:56 ie. there is no option for non-HD Apr 15 21:26:10 ah, well, the iCam. :) Apr 15 21:26:17 well, thanks :) Apr 15 21:26:47 Myrtti :) simple logical ux :) Apr 15 21:26:49 I don't complain, I got it for free at WhereCamp in return of recording every session we attended with it Apr 15 21:26:51 meego camera edition! Apr 15 22:39:06 oof. code. Apr 15 22:40:18 someone kicked the power cable Apr 15 22:40:48 :o Apr 15 22:41:04 it's usually the intern Apr 15 22:41:37 * CosmoHill wonders what he's missed Apr 15 22:47:06 meh Apr 15 23:19:50 DawnFoster: please repeat the questions from the audience? Apr 15 23:20:31 I love IRC backchannels ♥ Apr 15 23:21:10 hi guys Apr 15 23:21:39 I've been trying to run withthe netbook guild, but it doesn't work Apr 15 23:22:08 missing: /usr/bin/liveint Apr 15 23:22:22 that's correct Apr 15 23:22:31 it's just broken :) Apr 15 23:22:51 CosmoHill: thanks. any solution? I'd really liek to give it a go Apr 15 23:22:53 gah, Sakari holds the mic miles away from his mouth Apr 15 23:35:42 cyas Apr 16 00:05:26 l10n BoF Apr 16 00:07:00 I'm not recording this Apr 16 00:07:40 not enough space on the camera Apr 16 00:25:33 using the netbook usb img. booted and logged in. now what? where's the sexy GUI? no startx... hmm... Apr 16 00:26:07 that's it for now Apr 16 00:26:52 h89t: yip; it seems broken Apr 16 00:27:04 h89t: was hoping to try it myself Apr 16 00:29:45 yawn. 392 meg dl for a knoppix v 0.0.0.0.0.01? thx Apr 16 00:33:21 hey guys. i just installed the moblin-ivi release. i was wondering if someone could tell me what packages I need to install to get the moblin-netbook-ux installed. right now it's just a plain xfce desktop Apr 16 00:33:45 ivi? Apr 16 00:35:07 in-vehicle infotainment. it's going on a infotainment center i'm building for a car Apr 16 00:37:05 i had to install it to get the IEGD drivers for my poulsbo chipset, but i would like to have the regular moblin ui on it instead of a plain xfce Apr 16 02:00:36 HI,who use EsBox under windows,when I set share folders with vmware,the Cause: The mount appeared to succeed but it is still not accessible Apr 16 02:10:00 how to build the meego using the OBS, anyone can give a hit about this? Apr 16 02:11:24 the only hint is here http://wiki.meego.com/Build_System Apr 16 02:11:33 and obs from meego is not open yet Apr 16 02:12:27 http://bugzilla.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=615 Apr 16 02:13:49 but the meego source is available, we want to build it against a Arm9 device Apr 16 02:14:36 how to build the meego under windows?? Apr 16 02:14:54 It seems now we can only build the meego from the scratch Apr 16 02:16:32 best way to build meego is under Linux, unless you're real good with cygwin... Apr 16 02:25:44 wow Apr 16 02:25:46 lots of people here Apr 16 02:25:55 I tried booting the preview usb image but nothing comes up Apr 16 02:26:00 is that supposed to happen Apr 16 02:34:24 i got it booting from livecd Apr 16 02:34:37 though X does not work but i can develop packages there **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 16 03:00:02 2010