**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 08 02:59:56 2010
May 08 03:23:36 <Alastair1> hello :)
May 08 03:23:36 <Alastair1> what sort fo support will meego have for linux programmes?
May 08 04:51:42 <nifeng> whos
May 08 04:51:44 <nifeng> who
May 08 04:52:20 <nifeng> ==help
May 08 04:52:36 <nifeng> how to use the irc? please help!
May 08 04:53:03 <bfree> what do you mean how to use it ... you are using it already!
May 08 04:53:50 <nifeng> Are there some useful command?
May 08 04:55:20 <nifeng> Hello everybody!
May 08 04:55:56 <bfree> http://www.ircbeginner.com/ircinfo/ircc-commands.html (first random hit on a search but it's good enough to get you going)
May 08 04:56:45 <nifeng> bfree, thank you very much!
May 08 04:57:14 * nifeng hello!
May 08 04:57:22 * nifeng :-)
May 08 07:48:38 <sidh> hi all
May 08 07:48:46 <Stskeeps> lo sidh
May 08 07:49:03 <sidh> can i compile meego for arm
May 08 07:49:32 <Stskeeps> yes, it is already compiled for it :)
May 08 07:49:36 <Stskeeps> >= armv5
May 08 07:49:51 <sidh> ok... from where i can downloD
May 08 07:50:26 <sidh> where can i get source of that
May 08 07:50:27 <Stskeeps> repo.meego.com :)
May 08 07:50:33 <Stskeeps> what kind of device do you want to port it to?
May 08 07:51:00 <sidh> i want to port it on BeagleBoard
May 08 07:51:25 <Stskeeps> ok, there's already some guys organising to do this
May 08 07:51:54 <sidh> but i dont know the exact method
May 08 07:52:03 <sidh> where i can get help for that
May 08 07:52:09 <Stskeeps> you can try to poke WAHa_06x36 and see http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=117
May 08 07:53:00 <sidh> ok
May 08 07:53:20 <Stskeeps> and organise yourselves :)
May 08 07:53:24 <Stskeeps> it should be rather simple
May 08 07:55:45 <sidh> thanks Stskeeps
May 08 07:55:47 <sidh> bye
May 08 08:32:02 <lbt> QA process as per maemo: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dY7nnDH4cew/S-UgctHxP8I/AAAAAAAAABY/_aOPeFkMxdg/s400/obs-qa.png
May 08 08:32:06 <lbt> any thoughts?
May 08 08:32:26 <lbt> modified slightly for OBS application
May 08 08:36:07 <leinir> a thought: not marketing ready? ;)
May 08 08:37:36 <lbt> whaaat!
May 08 08:37:43 <Jaffa> Morning, all
May 08 08:37:55 <lbt> Jaffa:  :)
May 08 08:38:01 <lbt> think of the devil...
May 08 08:38:06 <Jaffa> lbt: what's the "Home" blob?
May 08 08:38:37 <lbt> raw text ....http://pastie.org/951214
May 08 08:38:50 <Jaffa> And the difference between Extras:Testing and Extras:Testing_repo? I'd've thought auto-builder vs. repo itself, but we shouldn't be rebuilding at Extras:Stable stage, so I'm now confused :)
May 08 08:39:49 <lbt> crappy pastie... hold on
May 08 08:39:59 <Stskeeps> Extras:Testing would be a obs project and _repo is the resulting repos i guess
May 08 08:40:11 <lbt> http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2010/05/community-building-against-meego-and.html
May 08 08:40:27 <lbt> yes.. Stskeeps
May 08 08:40:55 * Jaffa reads
May 08 08:41:46 <Jaffa> lbt: First clarification - 'home:repo' is shared, like Extras-devel, but may also be used like PPAs?
May 08 08:41:59 <Jaffa> Ah, no.
May 08 08:42:12 <Jaffa> One home:repo per projecty-thing. So more like PPAs.
May 08 08:42:36 <lbt> each project (directory if you like) results in a repo
May 08 08:42:47 <lbt> there can be multiple packages in a project
May 08 08:43:11 <Jaffa> lbt: indeed; i.e. dependent libraries, data packages etc.
May 08 08:44:07 <lbt> well, a package is a tarball
May 08 08:44:08 <Jaffa> lbt: have firewall-like "QA" lines before Extras:Testing and Extras:Testing_repo
May 08 08:44:16 <lbt> OK
May 08 08:44:27 <Jaffa> lbt: That matches your text, AFAICT
May 08 08:44:42 <lbt> Jaffa: that's the plan
May 08 08:45:33 <lbt> back in a minute Jaffa...
May 08 08:46:20 <Jaffa> lbt: If your home:repo (should be called home_repo?) has multiple packages so that it's a workable, self-consistent set of packages, 1) you have to register all the packages' you're going to promote names; 2) what happens if libfoo is in my home:repo and already in Extras:Testing_repo?
May 08 08:48:28 <Termana> hey hey
May 08 08:48:33 <Stskeeps> lo Termana
May 08 08:50:21 <Termana> Stskeeps, raster was right, Nexus One GLES libs definitely don't support X11. I emailed Brian Swetland (a kernel developers on the Google Android team), he said that they don't :P
May 08 08:50:29 <Stskeeps> damnit :P
May 08 08:50:46 <thiago_home> why should they?
May 08 08:51:38 <Termana> thiago_home, well, no one said that Google should of made sure they do, since Google isn't focusing on that. But we were just hoping, so that the MeeGo Handset UX could be used (assuming it NEEDS Open GL ES)
May 08 08:51:42 <Jaffa> thiago_home: No reason; but I imagine it'd've made a MeeGo port a lot easier if they did :-)
May 08 08:51:58 <thiago_home> Termana: it might, by using the Lighthouse port of Qt
May 08 08:52:01 <thiago_home> which runs on Android
May 08 08:52:15 <Jaffa> Termana: Assuming the Handset UX is entirely Qt based; couldn't an FB-targetting rather than X11-targetting version of Qt be used?
May 08 08:52:23 <Jaffa> Kinda like what thiago_home just said :-)
May 08 08:52:29 <thiago_home> and Lighthouse supports OpenGL for a full week now
May 08 08:52:40 <Jaffa> thiago_home: Positively ancient ;-)
May 08 08:52:49 <thiago_home> of course, that requires the application code not to use any non-cross-platform API (any X calls)
May 08 08:53:00 <Jaffa> Indeed.
May 08 08:53:20 <thiago_home> and I'm pretty sure the MeeGoTouch libraries do (shared pixmaps)
May 08 08:53:49 <Termana> It was the hope that no recompiling would be needed too much, just straight up trying to use the n900 rootfs. If the Open GL ES libraries supported X, this would of been easily possible (at least in theory)
May 08 08:53:57 <lbt> Jaffa: the home area is essentially unmananged
May 08 08:54:20 <lbt> you can create a 'bash' package in there
May 08 08:54:34 <lbt> but it's clear I need some 'how OBS works' too
May 08 08:55:23 <lbt> that gives people 'freedom' without any irritating processes
May 08 08:55:30 <Jaffa> lbt: So devs would have to sort conflicts when they try to transition to Extras:Testing (just like when they try to go to extras-devel now)
May 08 08:55:37 <Stskeeps> and PPA's by default
May 08 08:55:38 <lbt> yes
May 08 08:55:45 <lbt> we lose Extras-devel
May 08 08:55:54 <lbt> which is a bit of a mess IMHO
May 08 08:56:13 <lbt> Stskeeps: yes
May 08 08:56:27 <Jaffa> lbt: Is Extras:Testing going to have the same package list across all platforms? (THinking about dev who wants to write cross-platform s/w and the libraries he's packaged and called different things on different archs for no good reason)
May 08 08:56:41 <lbt> No
May 08 08:56:52 <lbt> This is 'application store' territory
May 08 08:56:59 <lbt> at the bottom
May 08 08:57:05 <lbt> I have.....
May 08 08:57:15 * lbt glances around to make sure qgil isn't here
May 08 08:57:18 <lbt> Surrounds
May 08 08:57:38 <Termana> :P
May 08 08:57:55 <Jaffa> :)
May 08 08:58:25 <lbt> Jaffa: hmm ... "Is Extras:Testing going to have the same package list across all platforms?"
May 08 08:58:38 <lbt> what's a platform
May 08 08:59:08 <Jaffa> lbt: sorry, you called them distros: MeeGo:name-number, Maemo:Fremantle (typo, btw with Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemantle) and Maemo:Harmattan
May 08 08:59:32 <Jaffa> i.e. if Extras:Testing is the first step on the road to <sub>Surrounds</sub>, that should be where things start getting consistent.
May 08 08:59:53 <lbt> I think we have 2 areas here
May 08 08:59:58 <lbt> Surrounds and Extras
May 08 09:00:05 <lbt> fairly independent
May 08 09:00:15 <Jaffa> But, as an author, I don't want to have to change my dependencies to libfoo for Maemo:Fremantle; foo for MeeGo:name-number and then submit my own package for Maemo:Harmattan.
May 08 09:00:17 <lbt> Extras is an app store ... as per maemo
May 08 09:00:36 <Jaffa> Ah, OK.
May 08 09:00:40 <lbt> Jaffa: tough
May 08 09:00:48 <Jaffa> s/Surrounds/Extras/ in my previous comment
May 08 09:01:02 <lbt> if you depend on a pkg which is named differently in different distros... then you have to
May 08 09:01:14 <Jaffa> lbt: Obviously for the "core" packages, that may be necessary; but for the community stuff which is in Extras
May 08 09:01:33 <lbt> ah... now that's where Surrounds does come in
May 08 09:01:47 <lbt> there is a notional promotion from Extras to Surrounds
May 08 09:01:55 <lbt> when multiple apps depend on something
May 08 09:02:14 <lbt> eg libliqbase?
May 08 09:02:23 * thiago_home read "national promotion"
May 08 09:02:34 <Jaffa> i.e. gcobb packages gpe in home and that includes libfoobar. It goes into Extras:Testing. I then package myapp and package libfoobar myself as 'foobar'. When I go to Extras:Testing I should(?) have to change to using libfoobar
May 08 09:03:03 <Jaffa> lbt: Understood of big, important, useful things getting promoted from Extras to Surrounds; but what about conflicts for some tiny little library at the other end of the process?
May 08 09:03:11 <lbt> no... we should promote libfoobar to surrounds ASAP
May 08 09:03:33 <lbt> Surrounds is there to serve developers in sharing libraries
May 08 09:03:38 <Jaffa> lbt: what if Graham doesn't want to maintain libfoobar for everyone?
May 08 09:03:40 <Jaffa> lbt: OK, cool.
May 08 09:04:06 <lbt> well, one aspect of Surrounds is that we should ideally have a meego-surrounds team
May 08 09:04:16 * Jaffa 's finsihed the rest of your text. All largely excellent which is why I'm trying to understand the detail & edge-cases :)
May 08 09:04:30 <lbt> thanks... me too ... it's still a draft
May 08 09:04:38 <Jaffa> BTW, I strongly think that moving from Extras:Testing to Extras:Stable should _not_ involve a rebuild.
May 08 09:05:31 <Jaffa> Something I've been less passionate about at work in the past; but given the problems I've been having recently, I'm now very much in favour of same binary in different environments :)
May 08 09:06:11 <lbt> mmm
May 08 09:06:23 <lbt> I'm on the fence over that one
May 08 09:07:04 <Jaffa> Is there a need (technical or infrastructural) for a rebuild? Is there a use-case?
May 08 09:07:09 <lbt> the situation here is not the same as the one being run for the entire distro internally
May 08 09:07:22 <lbt> which does work using rebuilds...
May 08 09:09:17 <lbt> I wonder if Extras should not be allowed to build against other things in Extras
May 08 09:10:25 * lbt goes to edit a bit
May 08 09:11:12 <Jaffa> lbt: Only things in Surrounds?
May 08 09:11:18 <lbt> yes
May 08 09:11:48 <Jaffa> Wouldn't the initial bootstrap of Surrounds with useful libraries used by useful apps be slowed down? Encouraging bundling libs with other packages or even static linking?
May 08 09:12:09 <Jaffa> i.e. in the example earlier, gcobb can't submit gpe to Extras until libfoobar's made its way into Surrounds.
May 08 09:12:17 <lbt> correct
May 08 09:12:26 <Jaffa> That might not be a bad thing overall, but could be frustrating for hobbyist devs
May 08 09:12:56 <lbt> how would you expect that to work in Ubuntu ?
May 08 09:13:43 <Jaffa> I dunno. Do they have a PPA->(uni|multi)verse process?
May 08 09:13:50 <lbt> ?
May 08 09:13:52 <lbt> dunno
May 08 09:14:23 <lbt> well, yes, they must
May 08 09:14:58 <lbt> but it may or may not be different for PPA initiated
May 08 09:15:39 <Jaffa> Indeed.
May 08 09:16:00 <Jaffa> Wonder whether they treat PPA-based packages differently for inclusion (or whether everything goes via PPA in some form)
May 08 09:16:14 <lbt> if we allow home: to be PPA (which it is!) then that's what you make do with until you're in Surrounds/Extras
May 08 11:43:27 * lbt is wondering whether my accountant will ask why cookery books are a valid business expense.......... Python Cookbook :)
May 08 11:43:55 <thiago_home> heh
May 08 11:56:52 <lbt> http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service
May 08 11:57:21 <lbt> OK I've rewritten much of that post into the wiki, restructured the OBS area a lot and put some draft process thoughts up there
May 08 12:33:15 <GAN900> Wee, lots of names I've never seen before and have little to no public presence in the CWG page. . . .
May 08 12:39:20 <Termana> GAN900, shouldn't that be a good thing?
May 08 12:39:23 <Termana> ish
May 08 12:57:52 <Stskeeps> GAN900: i actually recognise a fair bit of people
May 08 13:48:40 <CosmoHill> http://black-flag.co.uk/files/inocent-weasel.jpg :)
May 08 13:48:52 <th0br0> heya
May 08 13:49:00 <CosmoHill> hi
May 08 13:49:16 <th0br0> haha, that's cool.
May 08 13:49:37 <CosmoHill> I can't even remember why I opened the fridge now
May 08 13:52:34 <th0br0> ^^
May 08 13:55:41 * CosmoHill makes some tea and then will try to start his woerk
May 08 13:55:42 <CosmoHill> work*
May 08 13:57:10 <slaine> howdy
May 08 13:58:04 <th0br0> what work is it today, CosmoHill?
May 08 13:58:36 <CosmoHill> hey slaine
May 08 13:58:50 <CosmoHill> I have to do a 1000 ~ 1200 word reflective essay about working in a group
May 08 14:00:23 <CosmoHill> you know everyone is going HD crazy
May 08 14:00:40 <CosmoHill> there are between 3 and 43 HD channels depending on how you get them
May 08 14:00:54 <CosmoHill> and I bet most of them are movies
May 08 14:05:28 <thiago_home> could be worse
May 08 14:05:39 <thiago_home> could be like here: there are less than 10 and all of them are useless
May 08 14:05:42 <thiago_home> nothing interesting
May 08 14:05:52 <th0br0> I don't even get HD here.
May 08 14:05:53 <th0br0> :)
May 08 14:05:59 <CosmoHill> We got HD for xmas
May 08 14:06:38 <CosmoHill> 37" Sony HDTV and Sky+HD
May 08 14:06:47 <CosmoHill> most of the time it's just upscaled TV
May 08 14:07:30 <th0br0> well, we do have 2 hd tvs but unfortunately the dvb-c we've got isn't working properly.
May 08 14:08:15 <CosmoHill> in  my bedroom I have a 20" Dell monitor with s-video and composite
May 08 14:09:01 <CosmoHill> so digital TV looks good :)
May 08 14:09:14 <CosmoHill> it's SD but so much better than analgoue
May 08 14:11:26 <CosmoHill> I think the next thing I'd do in my bedroom is get a new monitor / TV
May 08 14:12:08 <CosmoHill> hmmmm
May 08 14:12:19 <CosmoHill> brand new, my hifi is worth more than my car :/
May 08 14:12:54 <slaine> CosmoHill: Looking at getting same TV
May 08 14:13:19 <CosmoHill> I think the model we have is £300 cheaper now
May 08 14:13:55 <slaine> they drop every 6 months or so, especially as the introduce new models in late autumn
May 08 14:14:13 <CosmoHill> i swear our's dropped £200 after xmas :(
May 08 14:14:31 <Nadley> hi everybody
May 08 14:17:19 <Nadley> I'm new with meego, and I would like to know the status of the dev actually
May 08 14:18:12 <CosmoHill> i think meego 1.0 should be out this month
May 08 14:18:36 <Nadley> oh cool. And it will be fully working for test ?
May 08 14:18:50 <CosmoHill> I believe so
May 08 14:19:02 <CosmoHill> the main focus of 1.0 is the core / backend
May 08 14:19:08 <Nadley> ok
May 08 14:19:16 <CosmoHill> i think it will use the moblin gui
May 08 14:19:16 <slaine> and netbook
May 08 14:19:29 <Nadley> and it will work on ARM and x86 ?
May 08 14:19:37 <slaine> core will
May 08 14:19:53 <slaine> it's working now, but the handheld ux is a little behind
May 08 14:20:03 <slaine> that'll be out post 1.0 but pre 1.1
May 08 14:21:02 <Nadley> sorry but I'm a little bit new with all this stuff. The core is the system without the UI ?
May 08 14:21:28 <slaine> yeah, Base OS, graphics libraries etc.
May 08 14:21:38 <CosmoHill> the core is the things that run in the background / the background
May 08 14:21:47 <CosmoHill> like the kernel and other software packages
May 08 14:22:03 <Nadley> ok. So the 1.0 version will have juste de core ?
May 08 14:22:43 <slaine> in short, there's nothing useful to see yet, there's going to be a release at the end of may, targeted at x86 netbooks I reckon with an ARM handheld ux release hopefully not long after
May 08 14:23:53 <Nadley> ok
May 08 14:24:10 <Nadley> and can we get involved in this project
May 08 14:24:38 <slaine> you can get involved now if you're into the base os
May 08 14:25:04 <slaine> download the images, tools, make an image, test it out, submit bugs, patches etc.
May 08 14:25:18 <Nadley> ok but what I need to test ?
May 08 14:25:41 <slaine> that depends on your capabilities
May 08 14:25:45 <slaine> what can you do ?
May 08 14:27:07 <Nadley> that's a good question :D. I would like to test an image and to report bug but do I need a specific hardware ?
May 08 14:27:38 <CosmoHill> erm
May 08 14:27:48 <slaine> there's x86 and arm builds, check out meego.com/downloads
May 08 14:27:49 <CosmoHill> have they dropped the SSSE3 requirment?
May 08 14:27:54 <slaine> No
May 08 14:27:57 <CosmoHill> :(
May 08 14:28:01 <slaine> and they won't
May 08 14:28:13 <slaine> we'll have to make our own generic x86 build with obs
May 08 14:28:20 <CosmoHill> obs?
May 08 14:28:48 <GAN900> CosmoHill, what rock and where?
May 08 14:28:55 <slaine> http://build.meego.com/
May 08 14:29:21 <CosmoHill> GAN900: the third rock from the sun
May 08 14:29:29 <slaine> God I hated that show
May 08 14:29:40 <GAN900> So 90s
May 08 14:30:22 <Nadley> is it possible to try in a virtual system ?
May 08 14:30:51 <CosmoHill> OpenSuse Build System?
May 08 14:30:58 <CosmoHill> *service
May 08 14:31:48 <slaine> Nadley: no
May 08 14:32:18 <Nadley> slaine:  so I need physical hardware :s
May 08 14:32:32 <slaine> Nadley: best advice right now if you're serious is to hang out here as often as possible and get to know what's going on and who's who
May 08 14:32:58 <slaine> There's no release that's usable to general public. There's base os stuff that's useful for some developers
May 08 14:33:12 <Nadley> ok
May 08 14:33:34 <slaine> once 1.0 is done and they've had their initial release, then we'll be in a better position to contribute
May 08 14:34:02 <CosmoHill> slaine: is it just the kernel that wants SSSE3 or a lot more packages?
May 08 14:34:35 <slaine> CosmoHill: anything that does any kind of FP work
May 08 14:34:44 <CosmoHill> hmm
May 08 14:34:50 <slaine> it's gcc compiler option for everything
May 08 14:37:25 <Stskeeps> then again atom does make sense considering the low power devices they're targetting
May 08 14:37:45 <Stskeeps> and that there's no real competition on that side amd-wise i guess
May 08 14:38:40 <dl9pf> is there a u-boot rpm in meego already ?
May 08 14:42:20 <Stskeeps> not yet, also, u-boot needs various configurations?
May 08 14:43:21 <dl9pf> true - atm its more "u-boot mkimage" ;)
May 08 14:44:11 <dl9pf> creating a mkimage package ...
May 08 14:48:19 <pupnik> isnt there a u-boot successor?
May 08 14:51:42 <dl9pf> there're boards using it, so anyway
May 08 14:53:08 <dl9pf> there's no kernel-devel (kernel source) package in the spec for n900 flavour - or am i wrong ?
May 08 14:56:52 <CosmoHill> "Apple PowerBook G4 non-intel version"
May 08 14:56:55 <CosmoHill> stupid topic
May 08 14:57:20 <CosmoHill> it can't be G# and intel
May 08 14:58:24 <leinir> Hey, that topic was set by the department of redundancy department, who set the topic!
May 08 14:58:42 <CosmoHill> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Apple-PowerBook-G4-non-intel-version
May 08 14:58:44 <CosmoHill> i found it here
May 08 14:58:49 <leinir> *giggles* :)
May 08 14:59:12 <leinir> well, it has the word "audiophile" in the address, that instantly makes it useless ;)
May 08 15:36:12 * CosmoHill is doing anything but his work
May 08 15:36:24 <RST38h> isn't it Saturday?
May 08 15:36:33 <th0br0> He's a student.
May 08 15:36:37 <th0br0> Weekends don't apply to him ;)
May 08 15:36:51 <lcuk2> working for a student implies sitting in pub
May 08 15:37:39 <CosmoHill> lcuk: if you're working for a student you're life hasn't gone to plan
May 08 15:37:44 <CosmoHill> you should have students working for you :)
May 08 15:38:12 <CosmoHill> also if you use 28 hour days it's currently friday
May 08 15:38:12 <lcuk> well they can carry my beer over from the bar :p
May 08 15:40:01 <lcuk> CosmoHill, if ive got a small project in python that i know would run 10x better using native c++ and qt would you be able convert it
May 08 15:40:16 <CosmoHill> i have no idea
May 08 15:40:21 <CosmoHill> but that wouldn't stop me trying
May 08 15:40:50 <CosmoHill> worse case, the program wouldn't work but I'd of learn Qt and Python
May 08 15:41:30 <lcuk> hah
May 08 15:42:02 <lcuk> i heard about a python to c++ parser which i ran over my code - it brought the algorithm and classes out but it was very messy
May 08 15:42:02 <CosmoHill> i have one assignment due in mondayt
May 08 15:42:08 <CosmoHill> one, possibly two, on friday
May 08 15:42:09 * slaine is working :(
May 08 15:42:24 <CosmoHill> slaine: you get paid for it
May 08 15:42:26 <lcuk> wow CosmoHill i thought you had a rest after your monster one
May 08 15:42:51 <slaine> yes, true
May 08 15:42:59 <CosmoHill> I'm probably making it sound bigger than it was
May 08 15:43:11 <CosmoHill> i have todo a 1200 essay for monday and tweat a website
May 08 15:43:12 <slaine> still, I work all week, would rather spend time with my family out in the sun
May 08 15:43:26 <CosmoHill> and maybe add comment functionaility to it
May 08 15:44:52 <CosmoHill> hmm
May 08 15:44:54 <CosmoHill> what music to put on
May 08 15:45:01 <lcuk> wow @ frals and fmms, 200k downloads of community MMS app to date and thats only during testing
May 08 15:45:02 <CosmoHill> and lets pick a target
May 08 15:45:11 <CosmoHill> say, at least 400 words by the end of the CD
May 08 15:45:30 <CosmoHill> lcuk: 200 kilobits? that's not much
May 08 15:45:35 <CosmoHill> :p
May 08 15:45:43 * lcuk adds another assignment
May 08 15:45:51 <CosmoHill> :(
May 08 15:47:25 <CosmoHill> hmm
May 08 15:47:39 <CosmoHill> my lecturer is available 1pm to 3pm on friday
May 08 15:47:53 <CosmoHill> if I need to see him then I'm doomed cos the deadline is 5pm
May 08 15:51:11 <CosmoHill> if you want my attention set off my highlight so you pop up in the corner
May 08 15:59:35 <CosmoHill> I hate being given a title and a word limit
May 08 15:59:39 <CosmoHill> and nothing else
May 08 15:59:57 <CosmoHill> a/and/but
May 08 16:00:02 <CosmoHill> s/and/but
May 08 16:08:22 <lcuk> CosmoHill, thats the easy part, start by outlining the report you want to write then begin filling in the pieces
May 08 16:08:46 <CosmoHill> I talked to my lecture and got some bullet points off of him
May 08 16:11:39 * lbt wants karma for meego
May 08 16:12:03 <th0br0> no~~~
May 08 16:12:06 <th0br0> and heya lbt
May 08 16:12:09 <lbt> o/
May 08 16:12:31 <CosmoHill> th0br0: how are your studies?
May 08 16:12:38 <lbt> my WIP ...http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Fremantle_Setup
May 08 16:12:48 <th0br0> could be better. but that's always the case, isn't it?
May 08 16:12:58 <CosmoHill> oh very much so
May 08 16:13:11 <lbt> there's more than 9 people in here.... who hasn't given me a thumbsup on http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/
May 08 16:14:12 * lcuk checks if he did
May 08 16:14:22 <lcuk> yup my thumb is orange
May 08 16:14:23 * lbt ignores  http://meego.com/aggregator  'cost there are no cute +/i buttons
May 08 16:14:28 * lcuk wonders where hes been sticking it :S
May 08 16:14:29 <lbt> :(
May 08 16:14:41 <lbt> lcuk: +1
May 08 16:15:01 * lcuk thumbs up anything productive 
May 08 16:15:10 <lcuk> and especially random quotes from b5
May 08 16:15:36 <lbt> moblin... maemo.... meego .... 3rd age :)
May 08 16:15:51 <lbt> technically the shadow war wasn't over until the dawn of the 4th age...
May 08 16:16:07 <leinir> Well... won't be ;)
May 08 16:16:07 <lbt> or was that the 4th season :)
May 08 16:16:11 <leinir> Get your tenses right ;)
May 08 16:16:22 <leinir> (damnit, now i have to listen to HHGttG ;) )
May 08 16:16:24 <lbt> zathras confused me
May 08 16:16:37 <lcuk> leinir, for time travelers tense was curious
May 08 16:17:02 <CosmoHill> I only have a control key on my left side
May 08 16:17:14 * lbt is about to make scratchbox-fake
May 08 16:17:20 <th0br0> :P
May 08 16:17:28 <CosmoHill> so when using the mouse left handed my right hand has to reach over the keyboard to the left side to right click
May 08 16:17:40 <th0br0> HHGttG, leinir?
May 08 16:17:52 <th0br0> lbt: B5 really rocks. I'm starting with the 4th episode in a bit
May 08 16:18:04 <lcuk> CosmoHill, in arcades as a little duckling i used to switch arms over and use them crossed because im a left hander and the buttons and joystick were on the wrong side
May 08 16:18:08 <lbt> th0br0: you did start on series 1?
May 08 16:18:11 <leinir> lbt: Aww, but Zathras wasbe such a nice guy! :D
May 08 16:18:23 <th0br0> yes lbt
May 08 16:18:26 <leinir> th0br0: 'tis really brilliant yeah :)
May 08 16:18:31 * leinir has the complete collection :)
May 08 16:18:49 <CosmoHill> lcuk: did you see the mouse I posted in here yesterday?
May 08 16:18:52 <lbt> leinir: when did you start the re-watch?
May 08 16:18:55 <TSCHAKeee> no worry, because zathras is beast of burden
May 08 16:18:58 <CosmoHill> it's meant to be designed for left and right handed use
May 08 16:19:11 <leinir> lbt: hmm... second or third time? ;)
May 08 16:19:13 <lcuk> CosmoHill, it may be a surprise to some here, but i dont see eveyrthing :p no i didnt
May 08 16:19:30 * TSCHAKeee has watched the whole series several times through
May 08 16:19:35 <lbt> just asking because we're on th season dvd 1 too ...
May 08 16:19:37 <lcuk> one of my school chums used to hold mouse upside down
May 08 16:19:38 <lbt> 4th
May 08 16:19:42 <lcuk> with the wire towards him
May 08 16:19:48 <lcuk> freaked the hell out of everyone
May 08 16:19:55 <CosmoHill> lcuk: http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_3167.html
May 08 16:19:57 * TSCHAKeee has gotten to the point where he starts thinking, "and Mollari walks through the door....now..." :P
May 08 16:20:15 <CosmoHill> lcuk: O.o
May 08 16:20:28 <CosmoHill> lcuk: I bet he loves wireless mice
May 08 16:20:43 <leinir> lbt: Aah right :) Well, i'm on... hmm... episode 13, season 2 i think it is... re-watching it with a friend :)
May 08 16:20:43 <lcuk> i dunno they didnt exist when i was at school
May 08 16:20:46 <lcuk> /college
May 08 16:21:03 <RST38h> http://hackedgadgets.com/wp-content/computer_mouse_using_a_real_dead_mouse_4.jpg
May 08 16:21:10 <CosmoHill> I have a logictek MX700, the thing murders batteries
May 08 16:21:23 <lcuk> i still have a wired ball mouse here
May 08 16:21:28 * lcuk wiggles it
May 08 16:21:38 * CosmoHill looks at the might mouse
May 08 16:21:41 <leinir> (also, just for the record: my name is not a misspelling of lennier, and due to the rather different spelling also not pronounced the same way ;) )
May 08 16:21:44 <CosmoHill> you could say the same about my mouse
May 08 16:22:03 <CosmoHill> it's like an up-side-down ball mouse, but you can;t take the ball out to clean it
May 08 16:22:12 <CosmoHill> I can scroll up and left, but not down or right
May 08 16:22:17 <lcuk> ewww keep your dirty ball to yourself
May 08 16:22:21 <lbt> leinir: it is when I say it :)
May 08 16:23:02 <leinir> lbt: ...my understanding is not required, only my cooperation? ;)
May 08 16:23:07 <leinir> sorry, obedience ;)
May 08 16:23:10 <TSCHAKeee> HARD DISK ON BUILDER DAMAGED! TIME DESTABILIZED! ZATHRAS FIX!
May 08 16:23:13 <TSCHAKeee> :P
May 08 16:23:18 <lbt> heh
May 08 16:23:41 <slaine> th0br0: hhgttg == Hitch Hickers Guide To The Galaxy, a master piece
May 08 16:23:42 <lcuk> i swear theres gonna be a perl script to make that happen
May 08 16:23:58 <th0br0> true slaine. i only read the first book unfortunately.
May 08 16:24:04 <CosmoHill> slaine: the orginal or the new movie?
May 08 16:24:39 <slaine> the books, only heard the radio shows while drunk, loved the tv shows, the movie had it's moments
May 08 16:24:39 <CosmoHill> read?
May 08 16:24:45 <CosmoHill> what is the "read" that you speak of?
May 08 16:24:46 <CosmoHill> :p
May 08 16:25:07 <TSCHAKeee> would you like me to stand over in the corner and rot, or just fall apart right here where I'm standing?
May 08 16:25:37 * CosmoHill duct tapes TSCHAKeee to the wall
May 08 16:25:42 <TSCHAKeee> :PO
May 08 16:25:59 <slaine> there he his, brain the size of a planet and he has use irc
May 08 16:25:59 <TSCHAKeee> as for the movie... do you think they called ANYONE ELSE for the robot?
May 08 16:26:02 <TSCHAKeee> I don't think so
May 08 16:26:07 <TSCHAKeee> :P
May 08 16:26:21 <slaine> Nor the narration, Steve Fry was just perfect for it
May 08 16:26:35 <TSCHAKeee> :)
May 08 16:27:06 <slaine> in fact, I'm pretty sure I heard steven fry's voice in my head when reading it years ago
May 08 16:27:16 <TSCHAKeee> i did too
May 08 16:27:37 <slaine> so when I saw the movie, it was like, OMG, that's so right
May 08 16:27:40 <TSCHAKeee> speaking of steven fry.. i thought it was pretty cool that he recorded a little spot for gnu.org
May 08 16:28:00 <TSCHAKeee> that made me smile
May 08 16:28:02 * slaine puts on the hhgttg movie soundtrack to list to his narration again
May 08 16:29:14 <lcuk> full quote version :D
May 08 16:29:25 <lcuk> Zathras: All Minbari belief is around three. Three castes–Worker, Warrior, Religious. Three languages–Light, Dark and Grey. The nine of the Grey Council, three times three. All is three. As you are three. As you are one. As you are the One. You [points to Sinclair] are the One who was. You [points at Delenn]  are the One who is. And you–[points at Sheridan]–you are the One who will be. You are the beginning [Sinclair]  of the s
May 08 16:29:26 <lcuk> tory, and the middle [Delenn] of the story, and the end [Sheridan]  of the story…that creates the next great story.
May 08 16:32:59 <CosmoHill> lcuk: I'm not a lefty but I use computer mice left handed a lot
May 08 16:33:06 <lcuk> i do too
May 08 16:33:18 <CosmoHill> I think it's something todo with my desk layout
May 08 16:33:28 <lcuk> often i cannot click left and right mouse buttons at once
May 08 16:33:30 <CosmoHill> I have two monitors and keyboards on my desk
May 08 16:33:43 <CosmoHill> so the keyboards are in the middle and the mice are to the left and right of them
May 08 16:34:00 <lcuk> do you type assignments on both keyboards?
May 08 16:34:12 <CosmoHill> no
May 08 16:34:13 <lcuk> i have 2 computers and 2 monitors but only use 1 keyboard for both
May 08 16:34:15 <CosmoHill> different computers
May 08 16:34:32 <CosmoHill> one is my windows desktop and the other it often my laptop
May 08 16:34:32 <lcuk> the windows pc pops up as a vnc window on the top monitor
May 08 16:34:52 <lcuk> (which is where all my irc stuff is)
May 08 16:34:58 <lcuk> i code and make notes on the bottom one
May 08 16:36:49 <CosmoHill> the bottom one being linux?
May 08 16:37:19 <lcuk> yeah
May 08 16:37:23 <lcuk> well the top one too
May 08 16:37:28 <CosmoHill> atm there is space to my left so that is where the mouse is
May 08 16:37:32 <lcuk> but the vnc window is to windows
May 08 16:38:01 <CosmoHill> my desktop isn't used to much anymore
May 08 16:38:27 <CosmoHill> now it's mostly for university work and old computer games
May 08 16:38:34 <lbt> lcuk have you seen x2vnc ?
May 08 16:39:02 <lcuk> yeah but this mechanism suits
May 08 16:39:08 <lcuk> its windows screen so isnt x
May 08 16:39:08 <lbt> OK... just in case
May 08 16:39:20 <lbt> mmm
May 08 16:39:31 <lcuk> windows machine is what gets sent over the network
May 08 16:39:39 <lcuk> displayed within linux
May 08 16:39:39 <lbt> ah, no
May 08 16:39:48 <lbt> so you sit your laptop to the right of your linux screen
May 08 16:39:57 <lcuk> i sit on linux laptop
May 08 16:40:02 <lcuk> with monitor plugged in
May 08 16:40:06 <lcuk> its dual screen ubuntu
May 08 16:40:06 <lbt> and when you move your mouse to the right edge of the linux screen
May 08 16:40:11 <lbt> it jumps to the windows one
May 08 16:40:19 <lcuk> but on the top screen i have a window showing windows
May 08 16:40:24 <lbt> the benefit is no graphics over the nW
May 08 16:40:36 <lcuk> nah its just a window it works
May 08 16:40:49 <lbt> try it
May 08 16:41:03 <lcuk> its not an entire screen
May 08 16:41:10 <lcuk> i still have linux stuff surrounding
May 08 16:41:13 <lbt> you get triple screeen for free... and it's faster
May 08 16:41:32 <lcuk> no need for faster - glance up i see whats happening
May 08 16:41:41 <lcuk> it rarely gets covered
May 08 16:41:42 <lbt> fine
May 08 16:42:20 <lcuk> windows resolution is also set to the same size as the laptop screen
May 08 16:42:28 <CosmoHill> sometimes I'd like to use triple monitor but you can't get USB to DVI for my powerbook :(
May 08 16:42:33 <lcuk> so when im unplugged i can still have win in a window without scrollbars
May 08 16:43:32 <CosmoHill> I have, a mac laptop, windows laptop, windows desktop and a linux server
May 08 16:43:37 <CosmoHill> these are my main computers
May 08 16:43:52 <lcuk> we need battlestation photos to explain
May 08 16:43:55 <lbt> yeah, I got a spare couple of monitors and I have onboard gpu as well as my main GPU
May 08 16:44:12 <lbt> so I wanted to go 3-monitor
May 08 16:44:25 <slaine> hmmm, that hhgttg theme always gives me goosepimples, the way it builds up
May 08 16:44:27 <lbt> but the kernel can't cope with 2 3D GPUs yet
May 08 16:44:58 <CosmoHill> I've seen someone run 7 or 9 monitors off a mac mini
May 08 16:45:20 <RST38h> and what did they have there? iTunes? =)
May 08 16:45:31 <CosmoHill> linux :)
May 08 16:45:50 <GAN900> Slow
May 08 16:45:54 <GAN900> Slow is what they had
May 08 16:46:05 <CosmoHill> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzkyOQ
May 08 16:48:27 <RST38h> Hmm...Obama on tv
May 08 16:52:57 <CosmoHill> I need to install cron or something
May 08 16:53:14 <CosmoHill> I also need to update clamav
May 08 16:54:16 <lcuk> lbt, CosmoHill  http://liqbase.net/liq.battlestation.20100508_002.jpg
May 08 16:54:22 <slaine> coffee update time
May 08 16:54:31 <slaine> fecking wifi
May 08 16:54:39 <CosmoHill> that's a big monitor
May 08 16:54:52 <slaine> Think I'll try Tomato or dd-wrt, I'm getting sick of this
May 08 16:55:04 * CosmoHill makes a note that "feck" is a minor swear word
May 08 16:57:25 <lbt> lcuk: yes, that's what I thought
May 08 16:57:51 <CosmoHill> slaine: I have dd-wrt on mum's router
May 08 16:58:06 <CosmoHill> we use it as a wifi bridge since netgear sucks
May 08 16:58:07 <lbt> the top monitor has a vnc display of your laptop
May 08 16:58:19 <lbt> your other laptop
May 08 16:58:29 <lcuk> lbt no thats a view of my windows desktop machine
May 08 16:58:40 <lbt> at work?
May 08 16:58:48 <lbt> or to your left?
May 08 16:58:58 <lcuk> thats just infront of me
May 08 16:59:12 <lcuk> ive got another screen at the side for the multitouch monitor
May 08 16:59:13 <lbt> yes, so you can see that window and your desktop at the same time
May 08 16:59:24 <lcuk> the vnc is the desktop one
May 08 16:59:32 <lbt> but use one mouse to work on both?
May 08 16:59:53 <lcuk> yes mouse is plugged into laptop
May 08 17:00:02 <lcuk> and when its over the vnc bit it wiggles window
May 08 17:00:03 <lcuk> s
May 08 17:00:11 <lbt> correct
May 08 17:00:17 <lcuk> i know this :po
May 08 17:00:31 <lbt> and when you turn your head, the mouse moves on the windows desktop too
May 08 17:00:45 <lcuk> heh no eye tracking
May 08 17:01:04 <CosmoHill> lcuk: the one with the boobies?
May 08 17:01:10 <lbt> OK, so what x2vnc does  is like that
May 08 17:01:22 <lbt> but better
May 08 17:01:24 <lcuk> but the "x" bit needs a linux machine
May 08 17:01:33 <lbt> what's your laptop running?
May 08 17:02:10 <lcuk> ubuntu
May 08 17:02:12 <lbt> right .... shurrup then :)
May 08 17:02:30 <lcuk> but thats native and doesnt need the 2vnc bit
May 08 17:02:45 <lbt> tightvnc?
May 08 17:02:56 <lcuk> yeah the ubuntu vnc mouse pointer sux
May 08 17:02:58 <lcuk> it lags
May 08 17:03:11 <lcuk> this one the local mouse pointer flows
May 08 17:03:20 <lcuk> and remote one just keeps up as best possible
May 08 17:03:32 <lcuk> ubuntu vnc viewer is awful when using 3g
May 08 17:04:13 <lcuk> so tightvnc was betterer
May 08 17:04:29 <lbt> OK, I just want to verify... that window... witht the blacked out bits - is windows.
May 08 17:04:33 <lcuk> yes
May 08 17:04:36 <lbt> it sits in a ubuntu screen
May 08 17:04:39 <lcuk> yes
May 08 17:05:04 <lbt> and it shows your desktop which is also displaying to your left on the real desktop monitor
May 08 17:05:10 <lcuk> no
May 08 17:05:17 <lcuk> the desktop machine has no real monitor anymore
May 08 17:05:28 <lbt> OK
May 08 17:05:32 <lcuk> the monitor at the side of me is a completely different computer
May 08 17:05:50 <lcuk> that also has a vnc connection but i rarely use it
May 08 17:06:02 <lbt> how many mice do you have?
May 08 17:06:03 <lcuk> because i can just poke at its screen
May 08 17:06:09 <lcuk> 1
May 08 17:06:12 <lbt> ( good point )
May 08 17:06:45 <GAN900> lbt, wait, what?
May 08 17:07:00 <GAN900> lbt, Linux kernel can't handle multiple GPUs?
May 08 17:07:07 <lbt> 3D DRI
May 08 17:07:12 <lbt> using DRI2
May 08 17:07:15 <lbt> afaik
May 08 17:12:17 * CosmoHill wonders if it's a good thing or not that he's never had coffee
May 08 17:12:31 <lcuk> its a good thing
May 08 17:12:35 <CosmoHill> :)
May 08 17:12:46 <lcuk> CosmoHill, onto your battlestation - with photos and explanations :P
May 08 17:12:47 <CosmoHill> At most I'd have two redbulls a semester
May 08 17:13:07 <CosmoHill> okay
May 08 17:15:36 <CosmoHill> http://black-flag.co.uk/files/battlestation-lcuk.jpg
May 08 17:15:54 <lcuk> its not mine!
May 08 17:15:59 <CosmoHill> firstly, sorry about the mess, it's always like that near deadlines
May 08 17:16:24 <lcuk> gah CosmoHill how do you use the monitor behind laptop?
May 08 17:16:39 <lcuk> i have mine raised on on a toshiba T1000 and a couple of books
May 08 17:16:42 <CosmoHill> I either close the laptop and use it in clamshell mode
May 08 17:16:56 <CosmoHill> or I use the top part of the monitor
May 08 17:17:11 <CosmoHill> it's only the bottom 3" I can't see from where I sit
May 08 17:17:17 <lcuk> maybe not hte 1000
May 08 17:17:31 <CosmoHill> what I tend to do is put my laptop closed on my desktop and plug in the monitor and keyboard
May 08 17:17:33 <lcuk> yeah mine are as close to seamless transfer
May 08 17:18:46 <CosmoHill> you pick something out and I'll tell you about it
May 08 17:19:30 <lcuk> i dunno where to start lol
May 08 17:19:43 <CosmoHill> I must say I do like that pick as it's like a snapshot of life, cos I've really just stood up, moved the chair and took the pic
May 08 17:19:43 <lbt> the white wire?
May 08 17:20:06 <CosmoHill> if you're talking about the one with red tape on it, it's the laptop power cable
May 08 17:20:16 <lbt> nah, the wiggly one
May 08 17:20:21 <CosmoHill> there's an ipod one in the front of the AV
May 08 17:20:27 <lbt> by the black thing
May 08 17:20:59 <CosmoHill> three wires, red, white and yellow?
May 08 17:21:24 <CosmoHill> at the ends
May 08 17:21:28 <lcuk> CosmoHill, training to be a bomb disposal guy?
May 08 17:21:35 <lcuk> sitting there wondering which wire to cut
May 08 17:21:51 <CosmoHill> if i cut the red one the right speaker will turn off
May 08 17:21:58 <lcuk> not very exciting
May 08 17:22:25 <lbt> that a lian-li behind the desk?
May 08 17:22:40 <CosmoHill> the silver computer?
May 08 17:22:43 <lbt> y
May 08 17:22:50 <CosmoHill> that's a jeantech case
May 08 17:23:02 <CosmoHill> £31 from PC world, also my first ever mod :D
May 08 17:23:08 <CosmoHill> it's currently my server
May 08 17:23:17 <lbt> ah, not aluminium then
May 08 17:23:30 <CosmoHill> steel, and flexiable
May 08 17:23:40 <CosmoHill> the case wobbles because the base flexes
May 08 17:23:55 <th0br0> haha, i like that battlesation, CosmoHill
May 08 17:24:17 <th0br0> what's that poster to the top btw?
May 08 17:24:20 <th0br0> looks like some manga?
May 08 17:24:31 <CosmoHill> it's a comic by VG cats
May 08 17:24:40 <CosmoHill> the far left one
May 08 17:24:50 <th0br0> k
May 08 17:24:52 <CosmoHill> to the right you have a ticket from a car rally i went to
May 08 17:24:56 <th0br0> I'm talking about the middle one
May 08 17:25:00 <th0br0> with the funny native guy
May 08 17:25:03 <CosmoHill> pink / redish?
May 08 17:25:07 <CosmoHill> oh that
May 08 17:25:10 <CosmoHill> that's hawk
May 08 17:25:19 <CosmoHill> the text goes "Rawr! Do your work!"
May 08 17:25:58 <th0br0> k
May 08 17:26:09 <th0br0> It'd clearly evaluate to False in my case here right now
May 08 17:27:05 <CosmoHill> behinds the two macs on the bottom right is a Dell PowerEdge 4400
May 08 17:27:17 <CosmoHill> the 4400 standing for 44.00kg I think...
May 08 17:27:27 <th0br0> shouldn't you be working and not procrastinating? :D
May 08 17:27:39 <CosmoHill> I blame lcuk
May 08 17:28:28 <frals> its almost always a good idea to blame lcuk
May 08 17:29:12 <lcuk> \@/
May 08 17:29:43 <CosmoHill> if you have a question I'll answer if
May 08 17:29:44 <CosmoHill> it
May 08 17:29:48 * CosmoHill goes back to work
May 08 17:30:45 <Corsac> hmmh, that's a powerbook?
May 08 17:31:06 <CosmoHill> yes
May 08 17:31:11 <Corsac> \o/
May 08 17:31:19 <CosmoHill> (and yes, that is electrical tape)
May 08 17:34:38 <th0br0> electrical tape?
May 08 17:35:03 <th0br0> ah nvm
May 08 17:35:21 <CosmoHill> the black stuff holding the LCD assemblery together ^.^
May 08 17:51:43 <CosmoHill> okay that was trippy
May 08 17:51:53 <CosmoHill> I can scroll sideways too
May 08 17:52:08 <CosmoHill> so I scrolled around and around in a circle
May 08 18:02:14 <lbt> dl9pf: ping
May 08 18:16:50 <dl9pf> lbt:pong
May 08 18:19:37 * CosmoHill noms dinner
May 08 18:21:43 <lcuk> lbt, the little test app ive been mucking about with in python - i decided to remove the qt dependencies and see what footprint of qt im actually touching
May 08 18:22:10 <lcuk> its not complete because for proper app i would need images and text support, but it gives idea
May 08 18:22:11 <lcuk> http://pastebin.com/vuKMx9zc
May 08 18:42:23 <slaine> Billy was a mounta
May 08 18:42:26 <slaine> in
May 08 18:42:53 <slaine> Ethel was a tree growing off of his shoulder
May 08 18:43:17 <TSCHAKeee> did you get into my blue dot stamps?
May 08 18:43:30 <TSCHAKeee> because those aren't stamps
May 08 18:50:34 <th0br0> lcuk: how good do you know qt?
May 08 18:50:39 <th0br0> (the c++ side)
May 08 18:50:56 <th0br0> or just another question: why does qt creator encourage such ... weird programming style...
May 08 18:50:58 <slaine> TSCHAKeee, haha, no. I'm listening to some zappa
May 08 18:51:06 <lcuk> th0br0, qt is just a library and im learning it in my own way
May 08 18:51:09 <slaine> th0br0: example ?
May 08 18:51:17 <th0br0> slaine: well, ever tried storing your sources in multiple dirs?
May 08 18:51:21 <TSCHAKeee> slaine: ;)
May 08 18:51:28 <th0br0> i haven't succeeded at that yet tbh.
May 08 18:51:29 <TSCHAKeee> i was listening to Sheik Yerbouti earlier
May 08 18:51:30 <CosmoHill> th0br0: with multiple make files?
May 08 18:52:00 <CosmoHill> th0br0: do you mean like, a source dir, a headers sir, a resource dir ?
May 08 18:52:02 <lcuk> th0br0, multi folders are all right where required i used to manage a system with lots and lots of folders
May 08 18:52:04 <slaine> th0br0: I don't think QtCreator is a particularly good IDE
May 08 18:52:18 * CosmoHill sticks with vim
May 08 18:52:20 <lcuk> the thing i dislike is split headers/code files in any language
May 08 18:52:22 <th0br0> slaine: true. but the msvs addin only supports the non-express version
May 08 18:52:30 <lcuk> i come from vb world nowadays
May 08 18:52:32 <th0br0> lcuk: oh it's very practical for interfaces.
May 08 18:52:37 <slaine> th0br0: the what now ?
May 08 18:52:38 <lcuk> i know its reasoning
May 08 18:52:44 <th0br0> CosmoHill: further differentiate between various sub parts ...
May 08 18:52:45 <lcuk> i just dislike how verbose i have to be
May 08 18:52:53 <th0br0> slaine: microsoft visual studio addin.
May 08 18:52:58 <lcuk> it makes adhoc coding harder
May 08 18:53:02 * slaine gets sick into his mouth
May 08 18:53:04 <CosmoHill> could you give me a name of a qt file so I can see if it's installed on my mac
May 08 18:53:05 <th0br0> the msvs express version is just a cut down, free one.
May 08 18:53:31 <th0br0> CosmoHill: I think that all Qt apps package Qt anew. THat's why they're so big
May 08 18:54:39 <th0br0> I, personally, don't think that OSX is a particular good system for developing on.
May 08 18:55:01 <CosmoHill> oh god
May 08 18:55:09 <CosmoHill> qt creator reminds me of flash
May 08 18:55:18 <TSCHAKeee> slaine: THE WHITE ZONE...IS FOR LOADING....AND UNLOADING....
May 08 18:55:27 <th0br0> ^^ CosmoHill
May 08 18:55:30 <TSCHAKeee> THIS IS...THE CENTRAL...SCRUTINIZER.....
May 08 18:55:33 <th0br0> It is nasty indeed.
May 08 18:55:39 * CosmoHill spent 12 weeks using flash CS4
May 08 18:56:10 <CosmoHill> i hate it when lecturers go to you "you must buy this software that you probably won't use after 12 weeks"
May 08 18:56:35 <TSCHAKeee> CosmoHill: this university is brought to you by Microsoft? :P
May 08 18:56:50 <TSCHAKeee> and Adobe
May 08 18:56:53 <slaine> Billy had two big caves for eyes. And a cliff for a jaw that would go up and down. And when ever it did, he would hack up a bolder
May 08 18:57:00 <CosmoHill> MS is fine, we don't pay for that
May 08 18:57:16 <CosmoHill> but being told you have to spend at least £150 on software is not a good start to the semester
May 08 18:57:23 <CosmoHill> also being told that it doesn't work on mac is bad
May 08 18:57:28 <CosmoHill> but i have a windows laptop now :)
May 08 18:57:37 <TSCHAKeee> this in addition to tuition
May 08 18:57:42 <CosmoHill> don't worry, It also have RHEL 6 Beta :)
May 08 18:57:42 <TSCHAKeee> which i always found to be fucking hilarious
May 08 18:58:11 <th0br0> TSCHAKeee: if it were, they'd be getting the software for free
May 08 18:58:22 <th0br0> CosmoHill: what kind of software?
May 08 18:58:30 <CosmoHill> for uni?
May 08 18:58:35 <th0br0> yes.
May 08 18:58:39 <th0br0> what software did you have to buy
May 08 18:58:53 <CosmoHill> Adobe Fireworks Pro and UML Studio 7
May 08 18:59:00 <th0br0> are you kidding?
May 08 18:59:08 <CosmoHill> no
May 08 18:59:13 <th0br0> First of all, UML Studio is idiotic.
May 08 18:59:14 <TSCHAKeee> yeah no kidding, who actually uses UML? :P
May 08 18:59:16 <CosmoHill> I paid extra and got a bundle
May 08 18:59:21 <th0br0> I mean, there are enough free alternatives out there.
May 08 18:59:36 <th0br0> And what do you need Adobe Fireworks for?
May 08 18:59:39 <CosmoHill> the bundle is cheaper than any two products inside it
May 08 18:59:47 <CosmoHill> Flash
May 08 18:59:50 <CosmoHill> *
May 08 18:59:57 <th0br0> http://www.pragsoft.com/ << are we talking about this uml studio?
May 08 19:00:03 <CosmoHill> yes
May 08 19:00:09 <th0br0> omfg.
May 08 19:00:19 <TSCHAKeee> boy, that's a nice little ass raping
May 08 19:00:20 <slaine> TSCHAKeee: I've worked in hell wholes where people designed programs with UML and handed off pieces of the "model" to coders to develope
May 08 19:00:21 <th0br0> Honestly...
May 08 19:00:23 <CosmoHill> when i say buy, i mean "acquire"
May 08 19:00:30 <th0br0> I wonder how much money that professor earns from each bundle bought this way
May 08 19:00:43 <CosmoHill> they get nothing
May 08 19:00:53 <slaine> s/wholes/holes/
May 08 19:00:53 <infobot> slaine meant: TSCHAKeee: I've worked in hell holes where people designed programs with UML and handed off pieces of the "model" to coders to develope
May 08 19:00:54 <th0br0> But for such crappy software (by the looks of their webpage..)
May 08 19:01:07 <CosmoHill> what I hate is we are taught to use a model that isn't default on anything
May 08 19:01:12 <CosmoHill> so you end up making a custom model anyway
May 08 19:01:23 <slaine> That's college for you
May 08 19:01:34 <slaine> I was taught COBOL and RPG ffs
May 08 19:01:39 <th0br0> No, learning to do interfaces is a good thing.
May 08 19:01:51 <TSCHAKeee> but you need college because HR hires people with those thick pieces of paper :P
May 08 19:02:02 <CosmoHill> I also have Windows Server 2008 running MSSQL 2008, I also use Visio 2007, Project 2007 and 2010 and VS2010
May 08 19:02:08 <CosmoHill> plus two copies on windows
May 08 19:02:10 <slaine> TSCHAKeee: I disagree
May 08 19:02:12 <th0br0> But you get them for free via MSDNAA right?
May 08 19:02:15 <CosmoHill> at a grand cost of £00.00 :D
May 08 19:03:18 <CosmoHill> if I use QT LGPL I'd have to share my source code?
May 08 19:03:30 <th0br0> why not get VS2008 tho?
May 08 19:03:33 <th0br0> When I once used VS2010 it sucked..
May 08 19:03:34 <TSCHAKeee> yes...yes you do...cough it up bitch
May 08 19:03:38 <TSCHAKeee> kidding
May 08 19:03:40 <th0br0> CosmoHill: uh, no.
May 08 19:03:40 <TSCHAKeee> ;)
May 08 19:03:53 <TSCHAKeee> hehehehe
May 08 19:03:55 <CosmoHill> th0br0: I have 2005 express and I needed a pro feature
May 08 19:04:00 <th0br0> mh.
May 08 19:04:01 <lcuk> CosmoHill, ? lgpl can be linked to closed code
May 08 19:04:06 <CosmoHill> my friend had the installer on his laptop
May 08 19:04:11 <CosmoHill> so it was the easiest to get
May 08 19:04:31 <th0br0> mhk
May 08 19:04:43 <CosmoHill> (it's a damn 3GB file :o)
May 08 19:04:51 <Surfa> gpl is kind of an cancer
May 08 19:04:55 <th0br0> not true surfa
May 08 19:05:07 <Surfa> very true actually
May 08 19:05:19 <th0br0> no. why do you think that gpl is a cancer?
May 08 19:05:50 <Surfa> think how cancer works?
May 08 19:06:16 * CosmoHill gets his stuck hamster out of the kitchen
May 08 19:06:34 <Surfa> once you get it, you never completely get rid of it an eventually it kills you
May 08 19:06:50 * TSCHAK2 rolls his fucking eyes.
May 08 19:07:12 <TSCHAK2> Surfa, go away.
May 08 19:07:20 <Surfa> gpl as such is something that has nothing attractive as a license
May 08 19:07:47 <GAN900> No trolling
May 08 19:07:53 <Surfa> why? because i've been workin with licenses and know what i'm talking about
May 08 19:08:17 <TSCHAK2> go away.
May 08 19:08:21 <GAN900> Surfa, you're trolling.
May 08 19:08:27 <th0br0> GAN900: i second that.
May 08 19:08:30 <Surfa> no i'm not
May 08 19:08:38 <TSCHAK2> somebody want to boot this guy?
May 08 19:08:42 <th0br0> Surfa: GPL's good part is that you have to share your changes.
May 08 19:08:44 <Surfa> correct what was wrong
May 08 19:08:48 <th0br0> And now please return to QNet
May 08 19:09:08 <Surfa> good thing?
May 08 19:09:35 <TSCHAK2> Surfa, the advantages of the GPL....and the sheer flaws of your absurd assumption have been pointed out many times over....elsewher.e
May 08 19:09:40 <CosmoHill> hey everyone, check this out: http://cosmo1847.co.uk/blog_images/freddy.jpg
May 08 19:09:44 <TSCHAK2> Surfa, you will not find any friends, expressing it here...
May 08 19:09:53 <TSCHAK2> Surfa, not will you find ANYONE willing to debate it.
May 08 19:09:58 <Surfa> how is that good? almost anyone wanting to make money with innovations see gpl as attractive as cancer
May 08 19:10:12 <TSCHAK2> Surfa, so please. unless you have something CONSTRUCTIVE to contribute
May 08 19:10:16 <Surfa> bsd licenses are much better in almost any way
May 08 19:10:17 <TSCHAK2> Surfa, GO AWAY.
May 08 19:10:29 <slaine> calm down guys, don't feed the troll and use your ignores 'til someone with op can deal with it
May 08 19:10:59 <th0br0> Stskeeps: you there?
May 08 19:11:12 <Surfa> well.. constructive discussion is just to tell to go away? very interesting view of discussion
May 08 19:11:23 <slaine> CosmoHill: what's that, your dinner ?
May 08 19:11:30 <GAN900> Surfa, it's offtopic
May 08 19:11:33 <CosmoHill> he's my hamster :D
May 08 19:11:38 <TSCHAK2> Surfa, why are you here? it is off topic.
May 08 19:11:46 <th0br0> Don't feed the trolls, GAN900, TSCHAK2
May 08 19:11:56 <slaine> CosmoHill: nom nom, hamster, hmmmm
May 08 19:11:57 * TSCHAK2 just flips on ignore
May 08 19:12:00 <th0br0> :)
May 08 19:12:00 <CosmoHill> :o
May 08 19:12:03 <slaine> lol
May 08 19:12:32 <Surfa> feed the troll :D.. just before i said anything last lines were about lgpl and closed source code
May 08 19:13:04 <Surfa> if anyone wants to have closed code bsd licenses are way best licenses that there are
May 08 19:14:01 <Surfa> and gpl is really referred as a cancer in many places.. it's not my own invention
May 08 19:14:19 <Surfa> no matter if you like it or not
May 08 19:14:29 <ml-mobile> well yes, greedy people will insult something that hasma price they don't like
May 08 19:14:33 <centoslinux> you guys like LiMo?
May 08 19:14:49 <ml-mobile> LiMo is not open whatsoever
May 08 19:15:01 <centoslinux> really?
May 08 19:15:05 <ml-mobile> really
May 08 19:15:18 <ml-mobile> platform is open to members only
May 08 19:15:18 <Surfa> ml-mobile, gpl nature is such unattractive for most companies that it's kind of sad
May 08 19:15:31 <th0br0> Surfa: mind that you have not brought ANY arguments so far to substantiate your claims.
May 08 19:15:40 <ml-mobile> min member fee is $10K, distribution license is $100K
May 08 19:15:40 <th0br0> Besides, take a look at Red Hat. It is very attractive for them.
May 08 19:16:12 <Surfa> th0br0, read the lines again and think the terms of gpl and you should see the connection.. really
May 08 19:16:29 <th0br0> Surfa: i asked you a question which i have not received a clear answer to
May 08 19:16:33 <Surfa> typing details with n900 is too painful
May 08 19:16:35 <ml-mobile> the terms of the GPL are clear, and only annoys the greedy
May 08 19:16:48 <Surfa> th0br0, what was the question?
May 08 19:17:06 <th0br0> I asked you to substantiate your claims.
May 08 19:17:09 * lcuk just wrote something using the "DO WHAT YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE" :)
May 08 19:17:13 <th0br0> Besides, you're using irssi right now.
May 08 19:17:20 <th0br0> Stop using it if you hate the GPL
May 08 19:17:24 <Surfa> ml-mobile, annoys and makes possible innovators go away
May 08 19:17:36 <ml-mobile> then they can go away
May 08 19:17:46 <lcuk> Surfa, theres plenty of innovation in gpl land
May 08 19:17:48 <ml-mobile> if they don't want to play ball
May 08 19:17:56 <th0br0> True innovators don't care about profit.
May 08 19:18:02 <lcuk> and i'd rather innovation made in the open remains in the open
May 08 19:18:07 <Surfa> lcuk, never said there wasn't.. but could be even more
May 08 19:18:17 <lcuk> then get off your asses and share code
May 08 19:18:29 <TSCHAKeee> they probably can't
May 08 19:18:34 <TSCHAKeee> because they don't have any
May 08 19:18:35 <centoslinux> ml-mobile: LiMo is not open to end user?
May 08 19:18:36 <TSCHAKeee> :o
May 08 19:18:38 <TSCHAKeee> :)
May 08 19:18:49 <Surfa> lcuk, sharing innovations may be done also without publishing whole source
May 08 19:19:02 <ml-mobile> centoslinux:  correct, the LiMo userland is explicitly not open
May 08 19:19:11 <th0br0> ml-mobile: how can they do that?
May 08 19:19:20 <lcuk> Surfa, but how does that help people
May 08 19:19:24 <slaine> by writing theor own code ?
May 08 19:19:26 <ml-mobile> simple, it's not gpl or bsd
May 08 19:19:32 <lcuk> if the inovation isnt published and open how can people build on it
May 08 19:19:36 <th0br0> mh ml-mobile
May 08 19:20:07 <ml-mobile> though there's probably BSD code locked up in it
May 08 19:20:22 <Surfa> th0br0, hate is too strong word.. i don't hate it, but see it as unattractive for most of things i'd like to do
May 08 19:20:39 <th0br0> Surfa: I never used the word "hate"
May 08 19:20:43 <th0br0> Ah I did
May 08 19:20:44 <th0br0> my bad.
May 08 19:20:51 <Surfa> th0br0, yes you did :)
May 08 19:20:52 <th0br0> What are those things you'd like to do?
May 08 19:20:59 <th0br0> Why do you see it as unattractive?
May 08 19:21:08 <lcuk> Surfa, do you have innovations made which you want to allow people to build on?
May 08 19:21:13 <lcuk> or are you talking in general
May 08 19:21:50 <Surfa> lcuk, of course ideas without source code help developers, but it makes them contribute by themselves too
May 08 19:22:19 <lcuk> but that just means people reinvent same thing?
May 08 19:22:21 <th0br0> how so? if you don't give them any source, they don't really have some foundation to build upon
May 08 19:22:23 <ml-mobile> ideas without source are useless, and makes the users dependent on the owner
May 08 19:22:28 <lcuk> now, like i said have yougot specific things?
May 08 19:22:51 <Surfa> lcuk, and make it possible to earn some bucks without need to open your own source
May 08 19:23:05 <lcuk> Surfa, please answer my question
May 08 19:23:14 <Surfa> lcuk, inventing and implementing are two different things right?
May 08 19:23:15 <lcuk> people can make plenty living with open code
May 08 19:23:23 <lcuk> its the person and the contributor, not their results
May 08 19:25:11 <ml-mobile> ok, enough idling in the parking lot...
May 08 19:25:31 <Surfa> too painful to discuss on n900 :)
May 08 19:25:47 <lcuk> well a simple yes or no wouldv sufficed ;)
May 08 19:25:52 <Surfa> i think i'll get back to tv to watch hockey
May 08 19:25:55 <centoslinux> Surfa: you are on N900?
May 08 19:26:20 <Surfa> lcuk, ok.. what was the question?
May 08 19:26:56 <lcuk> Surfa, "sharing innovations can be done without publishing source" - i asked whether you have innovations to share
May 08 19:27:00 <Surfa> centoslinux, yes.. i think i told it twice
May 08 19:27:10 <centoslinux> Surfa: :)
May 08 19:27:14 <frals> Surfa: finland vs denmark can hardly be worth watching? should be a walk over ;)
May 08 19:27:24 <Surfa> lcuk, personal or business?
May 08 19:27:35 <lcuk> Surfa, both
May 08 19:27:37 <lcuk> any
May 08 19:27:37 <lcuk> either
May 08 19:27:39 <Surfa> frals, seems so.. denmark over finland :P
May 08 19:27:49 <Surfa> lcuk, then yes :)
May 08 19:27:59 <centoslinux> i'm considering to buy N900, but should i wait until MeeGo devices comes out?
May 08 19:28:18 <Surfa> if you need a device, no
May 08 19:28:46 <Surfa> by when there is a need, otherwise you'll wait forever
May 08 19:29:41 <centoslinux> no, i 've two phones already, Samsung Galaxy & Nexus One
May 08 19:29:57 <lcuk> go for it then Surfa where do you post your innovations
May 08 19:30:04 <centoslinux> no need actually, but i want a true open soruce phone
May 08 19:30:07 <LinuxCode> centoslinux, I suspect, meego will try hared to be on the new atom chips
May 08 19:30:10 <LinuxCode> -e
May 08 19:30:16 <LinuxCode> but I dont see that happeneing
May 08 19:30:26 * lcuk peeks @ LinuxCode 
May 08 19:30:26 <LinuxCode> the battery life would be horrid
May 08 19:30:30 <LinuxCode> lcuk, allo ;-D
May 08 19:31:19 <centoslinux> hmm
May 08 19:31:28 <LinuxCode> centoslinux, I will get a N900
May 08 19:31:34 <LinuxCode> it will last at least 2 years
May 08 19:31:48 <LinuxCode> and maybe then, the intel atoms will be small enough to be more efficient
May 08 19:32:01 <LinuxCode> unless they will also provide arm stuff
May 08 19:32:10 <LinuxCode> which of course, would be nice to have choice
May 08 19:32:50 <centoslinux> hmm
May 08 19:32:51 <Surfa> meego arm stuff? will be of course
May 08 19:33:12 <centoslinux> no snapdragon
May 08 19:33:18 <LinuxCode> Surfa, can you quote ?
May 08 19:33:32 <LinuxCode> be nice to have confirmation
May 08 19:34:27 <centoslinux> N900 has Cortex-A8, annoys me little
May 08 19:34:41 <centoslinux> that it doesn't have SnapDragon
May 08 19:34:54 <centoslinux> Snapdragon is so fast
May 08 19:35:10 <LinuxCode> centoslinux, the way I look at it
May 08 19:35:25 <LinuxCode> Im happy we have something like the N900 at all
May 08 19:35:38 <centoslinux> agree with you
May 08 19:35:39 * LinuxCode waited years for a linux based mobile
May 08 19:35:45 <LinuxCode>  loved the N810
May 08 19:35:57 <LinuxCode> and I will happily replace the N810 with the N900 and my mobile
May 08 19:36:03 <LinuxCode> ehh
May 08 19:36:06 <centoslinux> :)
May 08 19:36:09 <LinuxCode> N810 + mobile with N900
May 08 19:36:09 <ml-mobile> more importantly, a (mostly) open linum mobile
May 08 19:36:13 <ml-mobile> linux*
May 08 19:36:23 <LinuxCode> ml-mobile, yeh, that is positive too
May 08 19:36:29 <centoslinux> if someone buys my Galaxy i'll by n900, no doubt
May 08 19:36:33 <DocScrutinizer> TSCHAKeee: huh?
May 08 19:36:34 <ml-mobile> there are many totally closed Linux phones already
May 08 19:36:37 <LinuxCode> preferablly I want a device where I can do with it what I like
May 08 19:36:42 <LinuxCode> distro wise
May 08 19:36:45 <centoslinux> Android fooled me to think i was having Linux mobile
May 08 19:36:50 <bfree> LinuxCode: there have been Linux phones for maybe a decade or more before the N900, admitedly few you could load your own kernel and os on
May 08 19:36:53 <Stskeeps> th0br0: ?
May 08 19:37:03 <DocScrutinizer> TSCHAKeee: you'll love it, it's a way of life
May 08 19:37:06 <LinuxCode> bfree, I could never ever get my hands on them
May 08 19:37:07 <LinuxCode> ever
May 08 19:37:08 <ml-mobile> closest was the motoming A1200
May 08 19:37:18 <th0br0> Stskeeps: it was earlier requested that the troll, Surfa, be kicked. but he seems to have quieted down
May 08 19:37:20 <LinuxCode> bfree, finsing a reseller was like finding a needle in the sun
May 08 19:37:30 <LinuxCode> finding*
May 08 19:37:50 <centoslinux> question to ppl from US here: can i use US N900 here in Europe?
May 08 19:37:51 * LinuxCode used to experiment with his Jornada 720
May 08 19:38:28 <Stskeeps> th0br0: fair enough, even though i don't have a high opinion of gpl myself :P (bsd licensing ftw :P)
May 08 19:38:36 <th0br0> ^^
May 08 19:39:02 <DocScrutinizer> centoslinux: there's no localized N900 hardware
May 08 19:40:03 <centoslinux> DocScrutinizer: what abt 3G mhz?
May 08 19:41:28 <DocScrutinizer> centoslinux: The N900 has all the standard worldwide WCDMA frequencies, but is missing a few weird ones used in US
May 08 19:42:00 <DocScrutinizer> still all N900 are the same
May 08 19:42:02 <slaine> lbt, Stskeeps how's the community obs stuff going ?
May 08 19:42:06 <lcuk> Stskeeps, do you use bsd for all your code?
May 08 19:42:43 <lbt> slaine: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service
May 08 19:42:58 <TSCHAKeee> centoslinux: the SnapDragon is NOT the end all be all of ARM cores
May 08 19:43:08 <Surfa> th0br0, :D nice attitude to say someone is a troll and reply nothing constructive either
May 08 19:43:14 <Stskeeps> lcuk: when it's my own code yes
May 08 19:43:17 <TSCHAKeee> centoslinux: the OMAP is a much...more balanced design.
May 08 19:43:26 <th0br0> Surfa: i was trying to be constructive. i asked you to provide proof for your claims.
May 08 19:43:28 <lcuk> Stskeeps, what did you use for the ircdoofer
May 08 19:43:38 <Stskeeps> lcuk: gpl, but that was inheritance
May 08 19:43:47 <slaine> lbt, are you ready for me to start my testing ?
May 08 19:43:52 <Surfa> th0br0, right.. proofs are in terms
May 08 19:44:06 <TSCHAKeee> can someone please skullfuck Surfa?
May 08 19:44:27 <Stskeeps> sigh - will you people calm down if you get a pint of good beer?
May 08 19:44:27 <Stskeeps> :P
May 08 19:44:34 <centoslinux> TSCHAKeee: don't get you
May 08 19:44:40 <lbt> ooh...  is this a bsd / gpl fight?
May 08 19:44:52 <TSCHAKeee> centoslinux: the OMAP contains a very powerful DSP, in addition to the ARM core
May 08 19:45:10 <centoslinux> i see
May 08 19:45:11 <lbt> slaine: X-Fade needs to setup accounts and stuff
May 08 19:45:11 <centoslinux> :)
May 08 19:45:39 <TSCHAKeee> centoslinux: and memory i/o between them is well balanced... so while the OMAP has less clock speed...it can do more than a snapdragon.
May 08 19:45:47 <TSCHAKeee> centoslinux: you've spent too much time in the x86 world
May 08 19:45:49 <Surfa> :D
May 08 19:45:54 <lbt> slaine: thoughts on the processes being oulined there would be good.
May 08 19:46:11 <Surfa> i have beer already, which is nice
May 08 19:46:18 <TSCHAKeee> centoslinux: if you really want to see the truth between the chips, go look at the data sheets, and study the differences.
May 08 19:46:25 <centoslinux> TSCHAKeee: hehe, you are right!
May 08 19:46:31 <lbt> Also, I should have dug up links to existing maemo QA/testing docs ... and we could look for fedora parallels too
May 08 19:46:51 <TSCHAKeee> centoslinux: clock speed is NOT everything.
May 08 19:46:58 <Stskeeps> on a sidenote, is those rpm school things taking tools like spectacle into consideration?
May 08 19:47:04 <lbt> TSCHAKeee: yes, but which chip will diff the datasheets quicker?
May 08 19:47:09 <centoslinux> TSCHAKeee: yeah, that true. AMD proved that
May 08 19:47:11 <TSCHAKeee> lbt: rofl
May 08 19:47:19 <centoslinux> thats*
May 08 19:47:28 <TSCHAKeee> and OMAP4 is turning out to be
May 08 19:47:32 <TSCHAKeee> awesome
May 08 19:47:36 <lbt> Stskeeps: they should... we need guidance on best practice
May 08 19:47:41 <TSCHAKeee> i'd like to see some real hardware using it soon.
May 08 19:47:42 <Surfa> TSCHAKeee, nice commenting there how about constructive discussion and some license difference study for you?
May 08 19:48:03 <Stskeeps> Surfa: if you want to discuss licenses without a concrete case, go to the fsf anonymous meetings
May 08 19:48:05 <TSCHAKeee> Surfa: you are way above your pay grade here.
May 08 19:48:07 <Surfa> gpl goes, but it doesnt make it any less cancer like license
May 08 19:48:17 <TSCHAKeee> Surfa: and you are talking to people who know a LOT more about this, than you do
May 08 19:48:22 <TSCHAKeee> Surfa: you should quit while you're ahead.
May 08 19:48:30 <lbt> he's ahead?
May 08 19:48:37 <lbt> oh, a head.
May 08 19:48:40 <Stskeeps> TSCHAKeee: don't feed the conversation. this is comparable to a discussion on religion. noone wins.
May 08 19:48:47 <Surfa> oh really? so how much do I know or do not know?
May 08 19:48:58 <TSCHAKeee> Surfa: what is it you do, exactly?
May 08 19:49:07 <Surfa> Stskeeps, well said.. :)
May 08 19:49:21 <Surfa> licenses are like diseases and religions
May 08 19:49:43 <slaine> lbt, ok, I've to finish up now, but I'll read it over tomorrow and get back. from a quick glance it all looked sane
May 08 19:49:43 <lbt> no, disease is real religion is a delusion
May 08 19:50:10 <lbt> slaine: Sure... would be nice to critique it and flesh it out
May 08 19:50:23 <slaine> only way to make progress
May 08 19:50:34 <Surfa> lbt, discussion on licenses is quite delusive too? or it often appears so
May 08 19:50:37 <slaine> right, time to put the offspring to bed, laters
May 08 19:50:44 <lbt> night slaine
May 08 19:51:14 <lbt> dl9pf: ping again... got called away, sorry.
May 08 19:51:45 <TSCHAKeee> Surfa: what is it, you do, again?
May 08 19:51:50 <dl9pf> pong
May 08 19:52:03 <lbt> o/
May 08 19:52:07 <Surfa> TSCHAKeee, why do you take this so personally?
May 08 19:52:20 <lbt> just looking at crosscompile and I think you've been working on it?
May 08 19:52:41 <TSCHAKeee> Surfa: because people like you contribute nothing to society.
May 08 19:52:57 <Surfa> that's what you think
May 08 19:53:00 <Stskeeps> right, that's it - if you want to argue, do it in private, or go to #outside
May 08 19:53:01 <Stskeeps> :P
May 08 19:53:13 <DocScrutinizer> gentlemen, could you maybe take it elsewhere?
May 08 19:53:20 <Stskeeps> i'm sure you can have a intelligent conversation between you two
May 08 19:53:23 <lbt> I was building deb based arm pkgs dl9pf, and it needed the static packages
May 08 19:53:26 <Surfa> no need to argue :)
May 08 19:53:53 <Surfa> i'm not personally insulted.. so all is just fine
May 08 19:54:05 <DocScrutinizer> no, it's not
May 08 19:54:20 <TSCHAKeee> Surfa: you are pissing off people in here, for no constructive purpose.
May 08 19:54:21 <lbt> dl9pf: is that new?
May 08 19:54:24 <Stskeeps> right, so let's leave this be and let's get back to discussing cross compilation, architectures and bacon
May 08 19:54:25 <TSCHAKeee> Surfa: GO AWAY.
May 08 19:54:31 <dl9pf> yes, any statically compiled bash/mount will do
May 08 19:54:43 <Stskeeps> TSCHAKeee: calm down.
May 08 19:54:56 * TSCHAKeee takes a xanax.
May 08 19:54:58 * DocScrutinizer suggests temporary +q
May 08 19:55:02 <dl9pf> for now, we need these . removing this dependency is work for after 1.8
May 08 19:55:16 <lbt> dl9pf: OK - just checking. Not noticed needing it before
May 08 19:55:24 <Jartza> what's up
May 08 19:55:28 <dl9pf> then it was buggy before ...
May 08 19:55:32 <dl9pf> or didn't work
May 08 19:55:38 <centoslinux> now i made my mind up to N900!!!
May 08 19:55:43 <lbt> this is simple deb/arm building
May 08 19:55:46 <centoslinux>  how much is N900 in Canada?
May 08 19:55:50 <dl9pf> chroot ?
May 08 19:55:54 <lbt> yes
May 08 19:56:01 <dl9pf> ok, then its overkill, right
May 08 19:56:01 <lbt> or it could be that the VMs had it installed
May 08 19:56:14 <lbt> I'm using uber-minimal installs now :)
May 08 19:56:16 <dl9pf> for chroot its overkill, for VM its mandatory
May 08 19:56:22 <Surfa> i still can't see a reason why these discussions are always taken so personally.. but perhaps we should quit anyway..
May 08 19:56:37 * Surfa offers handshake for TSCHAKeee 
May 08 19:57:03 <lbt> it appeared to be tested for in the build... OK... so long as it's known behaviour :)
May 08 19:57:22 <TSCHAKeee> lbt: quick question, did you back up the factory image on your joggler?
May 08 19:57:39 <lbt> make up with Surfa first
May 08 19:58:23 * Stskeeps glares at gcc
May 08 19:58:25 * TSCHAKeee rolls eyes. continues hacking
May 08 19:58:30 <centoslinux> is it possible to make apps with Python in N900?
May 08 19:58:30 <dl9pf> lbt: code got refractored. but we can look as its not needed in chroot mode
May 08 19:58:48 <frals> centoslinux: yes
May 08 19:58:58 <lbt> dl9pf: OK... are you merging the arm/deb x-compile?
May 08 19:59:00 <dl9pf> it only needed for startup inside worker-vm
May 08 19:59:10 <dl9pf> ?
May 08 19:59:10 <lbt> deb/rpm I meant :)
May 08 19:59:18 <centoslinux> frals: cool. I can't GTK
May 08 19:59:28 <dl9pf> what do you mean ?
May 08 19:59:59 <lbt> I assumed this was part of the accelerated x-compile?
May 08 20:00:29 <lbt> or are we still on emulated gcc?
May 08 20:00:58 <dl9pf> which deb builds ?
May 08 20:01:26 <lbt> I'm doing deb/arm ... for fremantle maemo.org OBS
May 08 20:01:52 <lbt> which is why I didn't expect the need for static bash/mount
May 08 20:02:05 <lbt> but you said it was being refactored...
May 08 20:02:12 <dl9pf> refractoring of "build" script
May 08 20:02:22 <dl9pf> causes this
May 08 20:03:39 <lbt> OK... I'll review it
May 08 20:04:38 <dl9pf> lbt paste your version of common_functions
May 08 20:06:40 <lbt> http://pastie.org/951752
May 08 20:08:13 <dl9pf>     is_emulator_arch || return
May 08 20:08:14 <dl9pf>     if [ -z "$VM_TYPE" ]; then
May 08 20:08:14 <dl9pf>         return 0
May 08 20:08:14 <dl9pf>     fi
May 08 20:08:14 <dl9pf>     # to run the qemu initialization in the XEN chroot, we need to register it with a statically build shell
May 08 20:08:33 <lbt> yeah, makes sense
May 08 20:08:35 <dl9pf> insert this
May 08 20:10:01 <dl9pf> in case - just try "build" from git head
May 08 20:10:11 <lbt> *nod*
May 08 20:11:05 <dl9pf> i've symlinked it to my git working directory :P
May 08 20:11:22 <lbt> :) me too for my desktop
May 08 20:11:28 <lbt> this is the maemo.org OBS
May 08 20:11:36 <lbt> it's running 1.7.3
May 08 20:36:32 <CosmoHill> son of a table
May 08 20:36:34 * CosmoHill stabs
May 08 20:36:50 <lcuk> CosmoHill, why did you just stab the nightstand?
May 08 20:36:52 <Stskeeps> random
May 08 20:37:03 <CosmoHill> http://group.black-flag.co.uk/article.php?ID=101
May 08 20:37:06 <CosmoHill> the address is in a table
May 08 20:37:25 <CosmoHill> if you resize the window it goes over the bordre
May 08 20:37:44 <lbt> usually tables are in addresses
May 08 20:38:28 <lcuk> lbt or sometimes in flatpacks on the way back from ikea
May 08 20:38:37 <lbt> yeah, that too
May 08 20:40:54 <lbt> CosmoHill: I see what you mean:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/96141280@N00/4590102180/
May 08 20:41:35 <lcuk> lbt i'd forgotten your like of tabs
May 08 20:42:04 <CosmoHill> is that what they are?
May 08 20:42:17 * lbt can multi-task...
May 08 20:42:23 <lbt> a lot
May 08 20:43:28 <CosmoHill> any ideas?
May 08 20:43:47 <lbt> is it your html?
May 08 20:43:52 <CosmoHill> yes
May 08 20:44:00 <CosmoHill> have a look at the source if you want?
May 08 20:45:28 <lbt> it only fails to wrap because the website url is too long
May 08 20:46:24 * lbt loves firebug
May 08 20:46:30 <CosmoHill> damn you're right
May 08 20:46:36 <lbt> I know, it's a curse
May 08 20:46:40 <CosmoHill> er i mean, thank you, you're right
May 08 20:47:07 <lbt> do you have firebug?
May 08 20:47:16 <CosmoHill> nope
May 08 20:47:25 <lbt> get it... but buy a nappy first
May 08 20:52:00 <CosmoHill> now, if you could help fix the facebook thingy :)
May 08 20:52:12 <lbt> facebook is broken by design
May 08 20:52:36 <CosmoHill> oh i see
May 08 20:52:38 <th0br0> lbt: ++
May 08 20:52:40 <CosmoHill> the width is hard coded
May 08 20:53:04 <lbt> have you got firebug yet?
May 08 20:54:16 <CosmoHill> no
May 08 20:54:20 <CosmoHill> but I fixed it anyway
May 08 20:55:46 <lbt> don't you trust me?
May 08 20:56:25 <CosmoHill> I do
May 08 20:57:05 * lbt clickies firebug just because it's so cool
May 08 21:07:26 <CosmoHill> firebug you say?
May 08 21:07:52 <lbt> I do...
May 08 21:09:08 <lbt> how can you have an activity guide with no Argentine Tango places...
May 08 21:09:29 <CosmoHill> now how do I use it?
May 08 21:09:45 <lbt> bottom right... firebug icon
May 08 21:10:21 <lbt> click HTML in the new menu bar and expand up the tree
May 08 21:10:31 <lbt> notice the mouseover bits
May 08 21:12:46 <th0br0> F12 is easier
May 08 21:14:34 <CosmoHill> hmm
May 08 21:18:13 <CosmoHill> dammit
May 08 21:18:23 <CosmoHill> I don't understand why sumbled upon is on a new line
May 08 21:25:25 <th0br0> CosmoHill: your application is not sql injection safe at all
May 08 21:25:28 <th0br0> take a look at cat.php
May 08 21:25:33 <th0br0> hint: sub parameter
May 08 21:25:53 <th0br0> i could easily drop your group table or the like if I've got the permission to do so ;)
May 08 21:26:13 <th0br0> anyway. i'm out now. byez
May 08 21:44:40 <lbt> night all
May 08 21:44:54 <CosmoHill> night
May 08 22:51:06 <cole> Has anyone installed meego on virtualbox
May 08 22:51:18 <CosmoHill> sorta
May 08 22:51:23 <CosmoHill> had to replace the kernel
May 08 22:51:33 <CosmoHill> would you like to download a .vdi made by _SKY_ ?
May 08 22:51:52 <cole> sure.
May 08 22:52:20 <CosmoHill> http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/meego/
May 08 22:52:23 <CosmoHill> meego-x86.vdi
May 08 22:54:58 <cole> Can silverlight applications run on any meego compliant browsers?
May 08 22:58:06 <timeless_mbp> cole: i've setup moblin in vbox
May 08 22:58:19 <timeless_mbp> cole: what would a 'meego compliant browser' be?
May 08 23:01:04 <timeless_mbp> and would a silverlight app running on moonlight count?
May 08 23:01:04 <timeless_mbp> if so, then "in theory yes"
May 08 23:04:45 <cole> Why do you qualify it with 'in theory?'
May 08 23:52:16 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
May 09 00:29:20 <CosmoHill> cyas
May 09 01:41:32 <Termana> hey hey
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 09 02:59:56 2010