**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 12 02:59:56 2010
May 12 07:19:41 <Vali> Hi every one
May 12 07:20:10 <Stskeeps> welcome
May 12 07:20:18 <Vali> i was just looking some help related to building the MeeGo for ARM
May 12 07:20:53 <Vali> first of all i don,t know the building procedure..properly..
May 12 07:21:24 <Stskeeps> well, you can drop into #meego-arm as well for those things :)
May 12 07:21:31 <Vali> i have downloaded the source code from meeGo.giturious
May 12 07:23:06 <Vali> i don,t  either i was get the entire source code or not ..how to check that..?
May 12 07:23:52 <Vali> actually i just downloaded the every git project present in the meeGo.giturious
May 12 07:23:57 <Stskeeps> Vali: ok, so, what ARM chip do you want to use it on?
May 12 07:24:40 <Vali> acctually i was planing to bring on beagle board
May 12 07:24:54 <Vali> ARM-cortex A8
May 12 07:24:56 <Stskeeps> ok, then i can point you in the direction of some people who are already working on that :)
May 12 07:25:08 <Vali> ok
May 12 07:25:41 <Stskeeps> you don't need to recompile meego yourself as it's already compiled for armv5 (works on armv7) and armv7
May 12 07:26:03 <Stskeeps> http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_the_Beagle
May 12 07:26:58 <Vali> here my main intention is first understanding the Entire MeeGo build procedure
May 12 07:27:31 <Stskeeps> OK, then you need to look into how RPM's are built from source rpms to binary rpms
May 12 07:27:34 <Stskeeps> and then OBS
May 12 07:27:43 <Stskeeps> it is a binary distribution, you don't have to rebuild it all the time
May 12 07:29:15 <Vali> means here i have downloaded the like meego-middleware packages like that..
May 12 07:29:30 <Vali> so i have to create the rpms for all the packages
May 12 07:29:42 <Vali> is this correct..?
May 12 07:29:55 <Stskeeps> well, yes, but there is already a bunch of source rpms in the repositories :)
May 12 07:30:00 <Stskeeps> and those are built inside a OBS
May 12 07:30:29 <Vali> waht is OBS.
May 12 07:30:44 <Stskeeps> it's a build service/builer
May 12 07:31:37 <Vali> means meego was already providing the some RPMs in repositeries
May 12 07:31:43 <Vali> ok
May 12 07:31:50 <Vali> whare i can found it..
May 12 07:32:01 <Stskeeps> build.opensuse.org is the software/ one instance of it
May 12 07:32:13 <Stskeeps> repo.meego.com is where the results are put
May 12 07:34:32 <Vali> ok..and i have one more doubt
May 12 07:35:39 <Vali> suppose if i wan to create entire building environment and source  for MeeGo in my PC
May 12 07:35:52 <Vali> is there is any detailed procedure ..?
May 12 07:40:34 <Vali> hi StsKeeps..are u there..?
May 12 07:41:16 <Stskeeps> i think that documentation is still being made
May 12 07:41:19 <Vali> can u please provide the information or links related to the creating the building environment for MeeGo
May 12 07:41:21 <Vali> ?
May 12 07:41:48 <Stskeeps> you have to consider that meego is a young project, but someone is working on documentation to set up your own OBS and everythin
May 12 07:42:01 <Stskeeps> please consider that it is a hard task to have entire meego rebuilt on your own
May 12 07:42:06 <Stskeeps> it isn't your typical embedded distro :)
May 12 07:42:17 <Stskeeps> so consider if it's worth your time
May 12 07:45:07 <Vali> Thanks Stskeeps For providing information with patience even i was not good at asking questions.
May 12 07:45:36 <Stskeeps> meh, every newbie is a potential contributor
May 12 07:46:01 <Stskeeps> (as long as they're willing to learn)
May 12 08:27:18 <Stskeeps> morning slaine
May 12 08:27:29 <slaine> morning guys, Stskeeps
May 12 08:28:44 * Stskeeps tries to find some btrfs info
May 12 08:29:14 <Stskeeps> i wonder if a MMC can be comparable to a SSD in terms of access etc
May 12 08:29:45 <Termana_n810> good morning slaine
May 12 08:31:24 <slaine> Stskeeps: in what way ?
May 12 08:31:34 <Stskeeps> well, in terms of wear/access etc
May 12 08:31:43 * Stskeeps should look at mmc protocol
May 12 08:31:43 <slaine> the ssd will have a controller that handles all that
May 12 08:31:56 <slaine> a raw flash device won't, that's the fs's job
May 12 08:32:09 <slaine> jffs2, ubifs etc.
May 12 08:32:11 <ShadowJK> mmc isn't raw flash
May 12 08:32:31 <Stskeeps> i guess mmc is good at random access too
May 12 08:32:32 <slaine> never used one, always thought they where
May 12 08:32:46 <slaine> so they'd be similar to sdhc cards then ?
May 12 08:33:12 <Stskeeps> well, when i say mmc, i mean SD and friends
May 12 08:33:19 <ShadowJK> stskeeps: it's okay at random read
May 12 08:33:35 <ShadowJK> it's slower than floppydisks at random write access
May 12 08:34:31 <ShadowJK> SSDs are fast because they have friggin dual ARM CPUs and 64-256Megs of ram to work around flash issues
May 12 08:55:54 <ShadowJK> Stskeeps, if you've got 30-60 minutes free, this is an excellent article: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2738
May 12 08:56:32 <ShadowJK> This is talking about SSDs, but just imagine that MMC/SD has the same underlying chips, and wherever SSDs do something smart, SD/MMC does something stupid and cheap optimized for sequential performance ;)
May 12 08:58:15 <ShadowJK> "The first thing I noticed about the drive was how fast everything launched." ... "wow, everything just popped up. It was like my system wasn’t even doing anything. Not even breaking a sweat." ... "I got so excited that I remember hopping on AIM to tell someone about how fast the SSD was. I had other apps running in the background and when I went to send that first IM and my machine paused. It was just for a fraction of a second, before the message I'd
May 12 08:58:21 <ShadowJK> typed appeared in my conversation window. My system just paused."
May 12 09:14:26 <slaine> Got a nice take up of my email to the team leads there
May 12 09:15:06 <Stskeeps> :crickets:
May 12 09:16:34 * slaine hears a lonesome bell, tolling in the distance 
May 12 09:16:53 <inz> For whom does it toll?
May 12 09:17:14 <slaine> do new new new, do new new new new neeeew
May 12 09:18:06 <slaine> inz, I have to play that now
May 12 09:19:49 <Stskeeps> slaine: i had really hoped for -some- response
May 12 09:21:52 <inz> slaine, you're an actor?
May 12 09:22:57 <slaine> inz, some might say that
May 12 09:23:09 <slaine> right now I'm playing at being a software engineer
May 12 09:23:26 <inz> slaine, I just though it sounded weird to play a book
May 12 09:23:40 <slaine> There's also a song
May 12 09:23:40 <sx0n> Apple spam: http://i.imgur.com/S4wlS.jpg
May 12 09:24:07 <inz> slaine, I prefer Hemingway over Hetfield anytime ;)
May 12 09:24:15 <slaine> lol
May 12 09:25:11 <leinir> sx0n: lulz, this image contains many ;)
May 12 10:19:18 <TheBootroo> someone here tried to get DuiHome running on Linux ubuntu or Meego ?
May 12 10:20:15 <TheBootroo> i tried to compile the maemo6 gitorious repos on my ubuntu and libdui and duitheme worked
May 12 10:20:31 <Stskeeps> well, that's positive :)
May 12 10:20:32 <TheBootroo> but duicompositor and duihome don't compile
May 12 10:20:55 <TheBootroo> it says 'undefined reference to MStatusBar' /....
May 12 10:21:14 <TheBootroo> does this mean that repos are uncomplete
May 12 10:21:15 <TheBootroo> ?
May 12 10:22:16 <TheBootroo> also when i try to run built widgetgallery or examples or demos, i just get blak sreen
May 12 10:22:25 <Stskeeps> try -software
May 12 10:22:40 <TheBootroo> thanks
May 12 10:22:45 <TheBootroo> i'll try tonight
May 12 10:23:03 <TheBootroo> that's for rendering problems ?
May 12 10:23:35 <Stskeeps> it enables sw rendering
May 12 10:23:50 <TheBootroo> ok
May 12 10:24:49 <TheBootroo> but for compilation pb ? where is MStatusBar defined ?
May 12 10:25:25 <Stskeeps> i'd think libdui
May 12 10:25:31 <TheBootroo> me too
May 12 10:25:34 <TheBootroo> logicall
May 12 10:25:41 <TheBootroo> but libdui compiled fine
May 12 10:25:46 <lcuk> grep for it in the sources
May 12 10:25:53 <TheBootroo> good idea
May 12 10:26:07 <w00t_> TheBootroo: you need to compile libdui first, and make sure it's installed correctly
May 12 10:26:27 <w00t_> (as in, in /usr/ somewhere where it can be found when building the rest)
May 12 10:26:36 <TheBootroo> i compiled it without any pb, and then installed it via 'sudo make install'
May 12 10:26:55 <TheBootroo> and its well installed
May 12 10:27:14 <TheBootroo> files are in /usr and there are even the pkgconfig def files ...
May 12 10:28:15 <TheBootroo> is it possible that MStatusBar in libdui was ignored because of missing depandancies, but libdui compiled fine ?
May 12 10:28:27 <w00t_> it doesn't have any dependancies
May 12 10:28:51 <TheBootroo> there are : gstreamer, qt4.6, libxml2 ...
May 12 10:29:01 <w00t_> outside of the normal.
May 12 10:29:10 <TheBootroo> and i dont have 'contextactions' and some others
May 12 10:29:35 <TheBootroo> i dont know in which package i could fine it
May 12 10:47:04 <Ionakka> <TheBootroo> someone here tried to get DuiHome running on Linux ubuntu or Meego ?   <--- i've seen this happening few times
May 12 10:47:24 <Ionakka> but i wouldn't recommend doing that unless you have installation you can freely fuck up
May 12 10:48:23 <Ionakka> <TheBootroo> but for compilation pb ? where is MStatusBar defined ?   <--- should be in one bin/lib packages generated by libdui (libmeegotouch...)
May 12 11:31:56 <TheBootroo> i tried with -software but i get black screen, i think the problem is from mthemedaemon which says 'dont found theme'  but my themes are well installed so i dont see the problem ...
May 12 12:02:49 <CosmoHill> Stskeeps: I saw my lecturer today and he's not allowed to help us because he's outside of contract hours
May 12 12:04:14 <Stskeeps> heh
May 12 12:45:01 <OgMaciel> I was wondering if someone could lend me a hand? I Followed steps 1 and 4 from this page here: http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation_For_Beginners
May 12 12:45:45 <OgMaciel> once the USB image was "installed" on my USB device I plugged it to my netbook and at the prompt chose the installation method
May 12 12:46:20 <OgMaciel> but mid-way through the boot process I saw a message saying there were no process left to start at the level
May 12 12:46:24 <OgMaciel> and that was it
May 12 12:46:34 <OgMaciel> sup seiflotfy ?
May 12 12:46:54 <seiflotfy> hi OgMaciel
May 12 12:47:25 <OgMaciel> seiflotfy: dude, have you installed meego via their usb image by any chance?
May 12 12:47:52 <seiflotfy> i tried
May 12 12:47:54 <seiflotfy> #fail
May 12 12:48:02 <OgMaciel> yeah...
May 12 12:48:09 <OgMaciel> same here
May 12 13:04:54 <RST38h> Will N97 do? =)
May 12 13:05:10 <RST38h> sorry wrong channel
May 12 14:54:31 <fadiodeh> hi
May 12 14:55:15 <fadiodeh> is this MeeGo people ??
May 12 14:55:37 <bostrt> fadiodeh, sure
May 12 14:55:42 <fadiodeh> great
May 12 14:56:07 <fadiodeh> i am new in meego community
May 12 14:56:19 <fadiodeh> how can i help with meego project?
May 12 14:56:37 <Stskeeps> what are you good at?
May 12 14:57:09 <fadiodeh> strong experiance with web solutions , 8 years
May 12 14:57:16 <Corsac> WAHa_06x36: ping
May 12 14:59:35 <fadiodeh> also good in design, php, .net, sql and some other tools
May 12 14:59:49 <fadiodeh> is there anything can i help with?
May 12 15:01:12 <CosmoHill> fadiodeh: any experience at wikis?
May 12 15:03:36 <fadiodeh> anything on the web, yes
May 12 15:05:13 <CosmoHill> give dawn foaster a poke when she joins the channel
May 12 15:06:12 <CosmoHill> speak of the devil, hi DawnFoster
May 12 15:06:13 <fadiodeh> ok
May 12 15:06:21 <DawnFoster> uh oh :)
May 12 15:06:26 <DawnFoster> hey CosmoHill
May 12 15:06:29 <fadiodeh> she is there
May 12 15:06:35 <fadiodeh> :)
May 12 15:06:38 <CosmoHill> she has good timing
May 12 15:07:20 <DawnFoster> You'll have to fill me in :)
May 12 15:07:50 <CosmoHill> [15:56]  <fadiodeh> i am new in meego community
May 12 15:07:50 <CosmoHill> [15:56]  <fadiodeh> how can i help with meego project?
May 12 15:07:50 <CosmoHill> [15:56]  <Stskeeps> what are you good at?
May 12 15:07:50 <CosmoHill> [15:57]  <fadiodeh> strong experiance with web solutions , 8 years
May 12 15:07:55 <CosmoHill> [15:58]  * cure` (cure@rzavelli.demon.nl) has joined #meego
May 12 15:07:56 <CosmoHill> [15:59]  <fadiodeh> also good in design, php, .net, sql and some other tools
May 12 15:07:56 <CosmoHill> [15:59]  <fadiodeh> is there anything can i help with?
May 12 15:09:10 <DawnFoster> fadiodeh: there are a few ways to contribute to the project.
May 12 15:09:47 <DawnFoster> right now, the builds available for downloads boot into a terminal window, but the UIs will be available in a couple of weeks
May 12 15:10:04 <DawnFoster> at that point, you can help with testing, file bugs, submit patches, etc.
May 12 15:10:24 <fadiodeh> ok
May 12 15:10:33 <DawnFoster> in the meantime ...
May 12 15:10:47 <fadiodeh> how can i start?
May 12 15:10:53 <DawnFoster> we have quite a few things that we're working on for the community infrastructure
May 12 15:11:19 <DawnFoster> Here's our current task list: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office#Process
May 12 15:11:20 <fadiodeh> maybe can i help with it, as a web development
May 12 15:12:28 <DawnFoster> we're working on more specific task lists like what I've done for Metrics: http://wiki.meego.com/Metrics#To_Do_List
May 12 15:14:38 <DawnFoster> We have a Community Office Meeting next Tuesday if you want to join us: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Working_Group_Meeting
May 12 15:15:28 <fadiodeh> sure i will, i see it before
May 12 15:17:48 <ruikflyer> test~
May 12 15:24:09 <fadiodeh> DawnFoster : also i can help with Arabic localization, if that language in relase plan
May 12 15:26:45 <DawnFoster> we are actively working on localization - not sure about Arabic in particular, but you should post here offering to help with Arabic: http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-il10n
May 12 15:27:01 <fadiodeh> ok
May 12 15:27:05 <DawnFoster> We have plenty of stuff that needs to be translated right now
May 12 15:27:27 <DawnFoster> they are actively working on localizing strings from the netbook ui now
May 12 15:27:52 <DawnFoster> and are going to start localizing user help in the next week or 2 (I think)
May 12 15:29:01 <fadiodeh> i am ready anytime to work with localization if that will help the project
May 12 15:36:21 <fadiodeh> i will have a look on all tasks in meego community and see how can i help
May 12 15:41:34 <DawnFoster> thanks fadiodeh - we appreciate any help you can provide!
May 12 15:44:22 <fadiodeh> i will try my best to help with this project, i just like this project a lot, thanks for everybody here
May 12 15:44:57 <slaine> DawnFoster: have you heard back from Amy ?
May 12 15:45:14 <DawnFoster> slaine: not yet, but I just saw her in the office
May 12 15:45:28 <slaine> Ah, so she's not in Dublin yet then :)
May 12 15:46:48 <DawnFoster> not yet :) I think she leaves tomorrow
May 12 15:49:18 <slaine> Ok, so pints tonight isn't going to work :)
May 12 15:52:37 <DawnFoster> and I think she's only going to be in Dublin for less than 24 hours :)
May 12 15:53:36 <slaine> that's some commute :)
May 12 15:54:05 <slaine> Is this a case of, yes, I've seen the venue and it will hold that many people ?
May 12 15:55:25 <DawnFoster> that's part of it. We have some specific questions about the venue and the nearby hotels. We decided that the quickest way to resolve it was to ship her over there :)
May 12 15:55:55 <slaine> Ah, to have money
May 12 15:56:10 <CosmoHill> sounds nice
May 12 15:56:37 <pupnik> someone should learn to configure their IRC client
May 12 15:56:57 <CosmoHill> hehe
May 12 15:57:08 <CosmoHill> so there will be a meego thing in dublin?
May 12 15:57:40 <slaine> if it comes off I'll be happy, obviously :)
May 12 15:57:44 <DawnFoster> dublin is the leading location for the meego conference in november
May 12 15:59:59 * CosmoHill adds ryanair.com to his list of flashy crap sites
May 12 16:00:09 <slaine> it's awful
May 12 16:00:13 <CosmoHill> I can see 6 things flashing at me and I've not even scrolled
May 12 16:00:28 <slaine> there's other airlines come here though, you don't have to go ryanair
May 12 16:00:40 <CosmoHill> on the plus side it asked if a short trip was intentional
May 12 16:00:45 <lcuk> DawnFoster, how many intel folks are there in dublin and is the hop from your offices to there a common well walked path by you guys?
May 12 16:00:54 <DawnFoster> we still need to confirm the dublin location
May 12 16:01:02 <slaine> lcuk, There's none
May 12 16:01:04 <CosmoHill> what date would it be if there was one?
May 12 16:01:12 <DawnFoster> we have some questions before we'll sign the contract with them
May 12 16:01:16 <lcuk> slaine, i thought intel had manufacturing/offices in dublin?
May 12 16:01:27 <lcuk> "can we play football on the pitch"
May 12 16:01:31 <CosmoHill> slaine: in all likely hood i won't go
May 12 16:01:32 <DawnFoster> November 15-17 (or 16-18) sometime that week
May 12 16:01:36 <CosmoHill> but it's nice to look
May 12 16:01:41 <DawnFoster> if we do it in dublin
May 12 16:02:34 <CosmoHill> hmm
May 12 16:02:42 <CosmoHill> ryanair don't fly in november
May 12 16:02:51 <slaine> lcuk, no, there's a campus in Shannon, Co. Clare, west coast of ireland
May 12 16:03:12 <DawnFoster> lcuk / slaine - there is an office in Ireland www.intel.com/ireland/ but we don't have anyone working on MeeGo out of there.
May 12 16:03:20 <DawnFoster> it's mostly manufacturing and research
May 12 16:03:30 <slaine> There's a manufacturing facility in Lexslip, Co. Kildaire, also
May 12 16:03:36 <slaine> but no dublin offices that I'm aware of
May 12 16:03:41 <CosmoHill> I keep forgetting that my nearest airport is "london" even tho it's 45 miles away from london
May 12 16:04:28 <slaine> CosmoHill: that's why ryanair suck
May 12 16:04:38 <pupnik> ryanair is incredible
May 12 16:04:41 <lcuk> slaine, DawnFoster my mistake then i did a search for dublin intel and came up with loads of references and even intel jobs there etc
May 12 16:04:52 <slaine> DawnFoster: There's some work being done out in Shannon i belive, there's an embedded group out there
May 12 16:05:16 <slaine> lcuk, You could get a bunny suit :)
May 12 16:05:23 <lcuk> \o/
May 12 16:05:26 <DawnFoster> it's certainly possible that people are working on meego in Ireland - it's a big company :)
May 12 16:05:35 <lcuk> do they do tours of manufacturing plants?
May 12 16:05:47 <slaine> If there was a dublin office I'd apply for a job
May 12 16:05:48 <DawnFoster> lcuk: not typically
May 12 16:06:09 <DawnFoster> Security concerns, bunny suits, etc :)
May 12 16:06:10 <CosmoHill> slaine: i know my dad has gone to work in london in the morning and then flown to dublin in the afternoon
May 12 16:06:20 <lcuk> and i guess the fad of them dancing whilst making chips has waned somewhat
May 12 16:06:31 <DawnFoster> as far as you know ...
May 12 16:06:37 <slaine> lcuk, No, they still do it, I've been there
May 12 16:06:38 <w00t_> lol
May 12 16:06:44 <slaine> the media lost interest, that's all
May 12 16:06:48 <lcuk> good to hear
May 12 16:06:56 <DawnFoster> don't forget that we have rock stars, too
May 12 16:07:23 <slaine> I applied for a job there as a student in the fab, I was turned down :(
May 12 16:07:34 <slaine> They said I'd only leave as soon as I got a programmers job
May 12 16:07:42 <lcuk> slaine, you were made of the wrong type of silicon
May 12 16:07:43 <slaine> Well d'uh
May 12 16:09:17 <lcuk> DawnFoster, undeniably intel has great many innovations under its collective belt
May 12 16:10:07 * CosmoHill blinks
May 12 16:10:25 <CosmoHill> 7 ~ 8 hours from liverpool to dublin
May 12 16:10:40 <CosmoHill> (ferry)
May 12 16:10:42 <lcuk> thats the pubwalk route
May 12 16:11:52 <slaine> CosmoHill: the sea cat is pretty fast
May 12 16:12:03 <CosmoHill> that doesn't include the 6 hour drive to get to liverpool
May 12 16:12:20 <CosmoHill> (tbh I'm only looking at how to get there cos it's better than project management)
May 12 16:12:40 <CosmoHill> it will take me 3 hours from wales
May 12 16:14:27 <slaine> One year, when I lived on the Isle of Man, I got the ferry to liverpool, got the train to london, got a train to swanly, meet a friend and some of his mates, drove to silverstone to watch the grandprix, got a lift to some train station, got the train to rugby, got the train from rugby to lancaster and then the ferry back to the isle of man
May 12 16:14:36 <slaine> I was shattered when I got back to my flat
May 12 16:15:57 * pupnik pats slaine on the head
May 12 16:16:14 <slaine> sigh
May 12 16:16:28 <slaine> it was almost as tiring as typing that out
May 12 16:17:25 <CosmoHill> if i go to the meego thing but not orical I'm stupid
May 12 16:17:42 <CosmoHill> since the meego one would be a lot further out of my comfort zone
May 12 16:34:30 <TSCHAKeee> lbt: do you still have your original joggler firmware somewhere?
May 12 16:34:37 * TSCHAKeee asking before he blasts the joggler to hell
May 12 16:47:21 * CosmoHill goes looking for his motivation
May 12 16:47:26 <CosmoHill> I'm sure I left it somewhere around here
May 12 16:47:50 <pupnik> so is building an rpm simpler than a deb? i forgot
May 12 16:49:15 <CosmoHill> I tried building both when I hadn't built either before and RPM5 won
May 12 16:49:54 <OgMaciel> has anyone installed meego using the usbimage?
May 12 16:50:18 <pupnik> yes
May 12 16:50:26 <OgMaciel> it fails to properly function when I try the install method
May 12 16:50:40 <CosmoHill> I can't install it but i can run the live version
May 12 16:50:54 <OgMaciel> and the live version brings me to a console
May 12 16:51:18 <OgMaciel> I can login ok, but what about the graphical environment?
May 12 16:51:26 <pupnik> wait a few weeks
May 12 16:51:38 <OgMaciel> was afraid someone would say that hehehe
May 12 17:01:17 <Efan> Hello Every one
May 12 17:01:24 <CosmoHill> hey
May 12 17:01:35 <Efan> I am actually new born in Meego and Qt and need some help
May 12 17:01:56 <CosmoHill> what would you like some help with?
May 12 17:02:37 <Efan> I have installed Meego on my NokiaN900 successfuly, But really dont know how to build my simple helloworld Qt example on this N900 which has Meego
May 12 17:03:02 <thiago_home> well, there's no application SDK yet
May 12 17:03:07 <CosmoHill> I would imagine that you would cross-compile it from a computer
May 12 17:03:24 <thiago_home> the next best thing is the Nokia Qt SDK. If you download the support for N900, the app might run inside MeeGo too.
May 12 17:03:25 <Efan> Right from my windows machine
May 12 17:03:37 <thiago_home> yes, right from your windows machine
May 12 17:04:01 <CosmoHill> Nokia have a Qt Creator that runs on Windows, Mac and Linux
May 12 17:04:31 <Efan> I have installed beta version of Nokia mobile SDK and I can see creator but really dont knwo how to cross compile my helloword for nokia900
May 12 17:05:10 <thiago_home> the instructions should be on forum.nokia.com. You need to set up the connection to the N900, and you need to change your project settings to add an N900 build.
May 12 17:07:04 <Efan> Thiago_home: Do you know of any writup or tutorial which can guide me step be step how to do it ?? can you please point me to that?
May 12 17:08:03 <thiago_home> like I said, all of this should be in forum.nokia.com
May 12 17:08:07 <thiago_home> but I don't know the details
May 12 17:08:14 <thiago_home> I built my own cross-compiling toolchain...
May 12 17:08:54 <Efan> Okay let me explore forum.nokia stuff
May 12 17:09:39 <Efan> I was wondering does Meego has any Windowmanager or Xwindow??
May 12 17:10:14 <tripzero> yes
May 12 17:10:28 <tripzero> both X11 and a windowmanager
May 12 17:10:38 <tripzero> which windowmanager depends on the UX
May 12 17:11:28 <Efan> Okay so it means then I can use Meego windowmanager while writing Qt application and prevent Qt to use its own QWS, am I right?
May 12 17:11:53 <arjan> whatever windowmanager meego uses for a specific device
May 12 17:12:06 <arjan> QT apps are guaranteed to work well since that's what all apps are (to be) written in
May 12 17:12:15 <CosmoHill> hey arjan
May 12 17:13:08 <Efan> Okay but which Window Manger that Qt apps uses, does it uses its own or Meegos WM
May 12 17:13:52 <arjan> there is only one window manager on the system
May 12 17:13:55 <arjan> you cannot have two.
May 12 17:13:58 <tripzero> all X apps will use the window manager that's on the sys
May 12 17:14:17 <arjan> the window manager is the coordinator... you really cannot have two active at a time
May 12 17:14:33 <arjan> would be like having 2 independent air traffic controllers owning JFK/EWR air space
May 12 17:14:37 <arjan> big big mess
May 12 17:15:17 <tripzero> could be funny though
May 12 17:15:38 <lbt> hmm is there a meego build tool group?
May 12 17:15:38 <Efan> agreed, but when you cross compile Qt you can use QWS for your embedded target even if target has WM correct me If am wrong
May 12 17:16:12 <tripzero> Efan, if you are using the Qt that comes with meego, you won't have to worry about it
May 12 17:17:18 <Efan> tripzero: Does Qt comes with Meego ?? I could nt see that, I have installed Meego and Qt separately
May 12 17:18:50 <tripzero> Efan, right now, I think the current dev images of meego are just the core OS.  in the future they will have a full X envi and Qt
May 12 17:18:56 <slaine> Hey arjan
May 12 17:20:29 <Efan> tripezero:yup thats what mee to have read some where. But at the present I want to use Qt on Meego on Nokia N900, I am having difficulty in running my Qt example, infact I dont knwo how to build my Qt example for NokiaN900 having Meego, I am exploring Nokia Forum for this but still to find any significant help
May 12 17:21:19 * thiago_home points out that the air traffic control over Germany uses tools written with Qt
May 12 17:21:32 <CosmoHill> :o
May 12 17:21:46 <Efan> :)
May 12 17:21:57 <lbt> thiago_home: only one window manager I hope
May 12 17:22:12 <thiago_home> lbt: I have no idea if they use window managers in their systems
May 12 17:22:20 <thiago_home> no clue what kind of systems those are
May 12 17:22:33 <lbt> heh - you missed arjan's comment
May 12 17:22:50 <thiago_home> lbt: no, I didn't. That's why I talked about traffic control. :-)
May 12 17:23:01 <thiago_home> Efan: if you go to the Project settings, you should be able to add targets to run on N900.
May 12 17:24:02 <Efan> Thanx Thiago, I have got one tutorial sort of thing on forum I am reading this looks like it is helpful
May 12 17:24:07 <Passeli> Efan: http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/a075d8cc-dc4e-4926-8faa-9d926c20a3d7/Getting_Started_with_Nokia_Qt_SDK.html
May 12 17:24:08 <tripzero> so this is an important question: if meego is the offspring of moblin and maemo, is moblin the daddy and maemo the mommy or vice-versa?
May 12 17:25:15 <Efan> Passeli: Thx i am already looking into it
May 12 17:25:42 <jusliukk> tripzero, considering that the packaging system comes from moblin and about half the content from maemo… ;)
May 12 17:27:36 <slaine> jusliukk: what content, the xterm ?
May 12 17:27:39 <slaine> :)
May 12 17:27:55 <jusliukk> :)
May 12 17:28:21 * thiago_home wonders what the other half is
May 12 17:38:25 <petteri> users come from maemo :D
May 12 17:41:46 <slaine> Oooo, that's a low blow petteri
May 12 17:41:58 <petteri> yes it is :D
May 12 17:42:41 <GAN900> Community, too. :P
May 12 17:49:18 <Efan> thiago: I just open an existing example and trying to cross compile it for N900, I dont see any option in to build for N900 though I do see build for Maemo, when I m trying to build for maemo get hell of compile error in "qatomic_windows.h" Looks like I m missing something any idea?
May 12 17:49:52 <thiago_home> Efan: I don't know what it could be
May 12 17:51:33 <Efan> Okay I think I should Re read that long pdf file :)
May 12 18:24:11 <Stskeeps> evening
May 12 18:24:41 <thiago_home> evening
May 12 18:30:28 <w00t_> evening
May 12 18:33:41 <Myrtti> goddamnit  I hate this bloody hotel from the bottom of my bloody heart
May 12 18:33:54 <w00t_> Myrtti: all hotels are evil
May 12 18:34:01 <w00t_> i am firmly convinced of this fact
May 12 18:34:16 <Myrtti> atleast today would be burger night
May 12 18:34:44 <slaine> I'm for a pint and burger right now with the irish linux users group
May 12 18:34:46 <slaine> later
May 12 18:35:58 <rektide> is there a media player as a part of meego?
May 12 18:36:02 <rektide> i cant find anything on gitorious
May 12 18:36:24 <Stskeeps> well, some people claim banshee
May 12 18:36:46 <arjan> rektide: reference media player depends on which device category you're talking about
May 12 18:36:53 <arjan> for netbook currently it's a banshee variant
May 12 18:37:03 <arjan> but it also depends on who is actually deploying meego
May 12 18:37:23 <arjan> OEMs are free to replace the media player with whatever they want (just like they can do for all reference applications.. that's why they are "reference")
May 12 18:37:25 <rektide> i never tried moblin
May 12 18:37:36 <rektide> but it looked like it was trying to do something original
May 12 18:37:43 <rektide> bognor-regis, a media daemon
May 12 18:38:03 <rektide> apparently taht effort has gone the way of the dodo
May 12 18:39:32 <tripzero> oh?
May 12 18:40:50 <rektide> i'm far from certain, i just dont see it in the meego gitorious repos anywhere
May 12 18:41:17 <tripzero> not everything is in there currently
May 12 18:41:30 <arjan> we're using tracker for media indexing now
May 12 18:42:03 <tripzero> i didn't think bognor did media indexing
May 12 18:42:15 <rektide> yeah i saw that.  from the one line description of this Debian package, bognor looks more like a playing / queue daemon
May 12 18:42:24 <rektide> ala MPD, Music Playing Daemon, if you're familiar with that
May 12 18:43:00 <tripzero> rektide, as is my understanding.  I don't recall what moblin used for media indexing before
May 12 18:44:50 <rektide> there's a dbus spec MPRIS floating about, for controlling media players via dbus
May 12 18:45:01 <rektide> havent found the bognor source, yet
May 12 18:45:10 <rektide> but i imagine it'll be interesting to compare and contrast
May 12 18:45:21 <tripzero> looks like it is no longer on git.moblin.org
May 12 18:45:24 <rektide> and of course theres upnp/dlna.  gupnp project seems to have really taken off.
May 12 18:45:27 <rektide> BAH
May 12 18:45:43 <rektide> (((i hadnt even found git.moblin.org yet, still cruising moblin.org)))
May 12 18:51:10 <rektide> again i am not familiar with what bognor actually was
May 12 18:51:19 <rektide> http://git.moblin.org/cgit.cgi/deprecated/gstreamer-dbus-media-service/tree/gst-media-service
May 12 18:51:23 <rektide> that seems kind of inline
May 12 18:51:44 <rektide> grep for @dbus.service.method 's to see its capabilities
May 12 18:51:58 <rektide> a daemon for handling media
May 12 18:55:30 <rektide> hehe deb-src ftw
May 12 19:04:23 <CosmoHill> what's it called when you write code to test the functionality, but it's not in the programming language of the final system?
May 12 19:04:35 <Corsac> testsuite?
May 12 19:04:47 <Corsac> unit test?
May 12 19:05:00 <CosmoHill> persudo code or something like that?
May 12 19:05:02 <Stskeeps> something the code monkies takes care of
May 12 19:05:31 <lcuk> pseudo code
May 12 19:05:46 <lcuk> fake incomplete outline of the process
May 12 19:07:15 * CosmoHill has a weird feeling that his friend has gone AFK and his little brother is on the PC
May 12 19:08:37 <rektide> theres not really any name for writing tests in a different language
May 12 19:08:57 <Stskeeps> i'm wondering since tsg is every other week, to have some kind of meeting in the inbetweens where people gather to discuss general concerns about meego or something
May 12 19:09:09 <CosmoHill> I've put "pseudo code was written in php", that should do
May 12 19:09:32 <thiago_home> Stskeeps: I'd say, organise it
May 12 19:10:20 <Stskeeps> then again having every other wednesday evening off does sound appealing :P
May 12 19:11:07 <Isac> Hi all
May 12 19:11:11 <Stskeeps> evening Isac
May 12 19:11:45 <Isac> I was wondering if some one can help how to compile Qt on Meego
May 12 19:11:54 <Stskeeps> compile a qt app or compile qt
May 12 19:12:50 <Isac> ultimately goal is to compile Qt app , so compileing qt app on meego will help :)
May 12 19:13:32 <Stskeeps> okay, so, initially i would suggest you to wait for meego 1.0 - if you really need it, qt is already compiled and in the repositories.
May 12 19:13:48 <thiago_home> Isac: what do you have for a toolchain now?
May 12 19:14:00 <thiago_home> and are you building for ARM or for Atom?
May 12 19:14:06 <Isac> ah I forgot to mention here that I m trying to write some application for Nokia N900 for ovi
May 12 19:14:13 <Isac> ARM
May 12 19:14:25 <Stskeeps> well, meego on n900?
May 12 19:14:30 <Stskeeps> because there's no ovi for meego (yet)
May 12 19:14:37 <thiago_home> well, if you're targetting Maemo 5 on the N900 (not MeeGo on the N900), you should use the Nokia Qt SDK.
May 12 19:14:38 <Isac> yes I installed Meego on N900
May 12 19:14:45 <Stskeeps> .. depending on perspective
May 12 19:14:52 <thiago_home> most users will not install MeeGo on it
May 12 19:15:07 <jwhite> forgive the newb question, but is the easiest way to test drive latest + greatest meego to download + install the 0331 usb stick, and then yum update that?
May 12 19:15:53 <Isac> I am very sure in coming days OVI will have meego, so I m starting in advance
May 12 19:16:23 <thiago_home> yes, Ovi will definitely have MeeGo, because Nokia will have MeeGo devices
May 12 19:16:29 <thiago_home> but MeeGo on the N900 is not supported
May 12 19:16:55 <thiago_home> besides, you can target the N900 today with Maemo 5
May 12 19:17:17 <Isac> Hmm at the moment it is not supported but on meego.com they say it will be in future and taking help from meego,com only i was able to install meego on N900
May 12 19:18:16 <thiago_home> right
May 12 19:18:31 <lcuk> thiago_home, is there any reason to believe a standard qt application written today will be incompatible with meego?
May 12 19:18:35 <thiago_home> again, my point is that most users of the N900 will not install MeeGo on their devices
May 12 19:18:55 <thiago_home> lcuk: nope, if you stick to cross-platform Qt API
May 12 19:19:01 <thiago_home> aside from the .deb packaging, that is
May 12 19:19:15 <thiago_home> note that the QtMaemo5 API is not part of the cross-platform offering
May 12 19:19:26 <thiago_home> MeeGo uses the standard X11 port
May 12 19:19:45 <lcuk> right, so he can do what he wants, make qt apps now, supported on maemo fremantle and hopefully ovi, then when meego comes along can just tick a box or whatever will be needed, submit to meego repo and bob will be his uncle?
May 12 19:20:18 <thiago_home> yeah
May 12 19:20:20 <Isac> Luck: well idea is somethign like that
May 12 19:20:26 <lcuk> the app itself would not need rewriting unless it uses specifics - but the packaging may?
May 12 19:20:44 <thiago_home> debian control files will not be very useful in RPM
May 12 19:20:50 <lcuk> yeah of course
May 12 19:21:30 <thiago_home> by the way, if you stick to Qt cross-platform API, your app will probably run on Symbian too
May 12 19:21:40 <thiago_home> it's so ingenious they should make a strategy out of this :-P
May 12 19:22:38 <lcuk> then go over the qt api with a highlighter pen and show which pathways are best for multiplatform
May 12 19:23:17 <lcuk> what packaging format does symbian use?
May 12 19:23:25 <thiago_home> sis
May 12 19:24:25 <lcuk> can a qt app cotnain the multiple packaging targets?
May 12 19:24:26 <Myrtti> bah, I wish my computer had more oomph in it - I can't even watch the videos I recorded myself with this bloody thing
May 12 19:24:28 <lcuk> contain
May 12 19:24:37 <lcuk> jeees Myrtti
May 12 19:24:55 <thiago_home> lcuk: Qt doesn't include packaging
May 12 19:25:29 <Isac> thiago: you said meego is not supported on N900, did you mean at the moement or some how you have this news that it will never be supported, we here in our freiend circle has this assumption that N900 will have Meego in future
May 12 19:25:36 <lcuk> doesnt that raise the barrier to entry somewhat?
May 12 19:25:51 <lcuk> even VB has multiple packaging methods
May 12 19:25:59 * lcuk remembers the package and deployment wizard well
May 12 19:26:05 <Isac> thiago:if meego will not be supported in future then our whole plan will be Fu.. up
May 12 19:26:09 <Myrtti> ooh mplayer love
May 12 19:26:21 <Stskeeps> Isac: meego (the project) has a hardware adaptation team for meego. this is not nokia product
May 12 19:26:29 <Stskeeps> for meego=for n900
May 12 19:26:45 <Stskeeps> albeit a lot of nokians are paid to be involved
May 12 19:27:00 <Stskeeps> Isac: if it would be productized by nokia, who knows
May 12 19:27:32 <Stskeeps> you need a working hardware adaptation no matter what :)
May 12 19:27:48 <Isac> evey wehre I m reading that now maemo will no more exists and only meego would be there it means Nokia will have only Meego on its devices
May 12 19:28:15 <Stskeeps> maemo5 still has life
May 12 19:28:52 <Isac> does this mean that N900 will always have maemo (version 5) and will never update??
May 12 19:29:19 <thiago_home> Isac: there will be MeeGo versions for the N900
May 12 19:29:23 <Isac> once development in maemo is stopped then N900 will never have further improvment in it
May 12 19:29:28 <thiago_home> but you can expect that most users will not upgrade
May 12 19:29:51 <Stskeeps> Isac: n900 is reference device for meego arm
May 12 19:30:04 <GAN900> Isac, absolute terms like that don't work in open source.
May 12 19:30:06 <lcuk> the question then thiago_home is why?
May 12 19:30:14 <thiago_home> because it's hard
May 12 19:30:28 <thiago_home> and because the necessary QA work to deliver the image of a phone is very, very long
May 12 19:30:31 <GAN900> What that means is an exercise for the reader. ;)
May 12 19:30:37 <thiago_home> that too
May 12 19:30:45 <lcuk> believe me thiago_home i know all about that
May 12 19:30:50 <GAN900> lcuk, clearly because Nokia isn't providing an official, supported upgrade path. ;)
May 12 19:31:04 <Stskeeps> upgrading to meego would be a mess
May 12 19:31:06 <GAN900> You heard it here first, folks! ;)
May 12 19:31:17 <Stskeeps> ie, ssu like thing
May 12 19:31:27 <GAN900> and Nokia doesn't really give two shits about their existing customer base
May 12 19:31:33 <lcuk> ssu is tricky even OS to OS
May 12 19:31:43 <thiago_home> and, of course, GAN900 as usual blows things out of proportion
May 12 19:31:43 <GAN900> They're like all phone companies: only new customers matter.
May 12 19:31:46 <lcuk> i dont think anyone would expect to transition data too
May 12 19:32:11 <thiago_home> there's a lot of work still going on the N900
May 12 19:32:14 <lcuk> if theres going to be dev images there all the way up to it being ready whats the difference
May 12 19:32:17 <GAN900> thiago_home, hey, man, tell that to all of the Maemo devices I has in drawers.
May 12 19:32:30 <GAN900> s/has/have
May 12 19:32:31 <lcuk> im involved with it thiago_home
May 12 19:32:42 <Stskeeps> GAN900: there is a lot of resources being thrown at the hw adaptation at least
May 12 19:33:38 <thiago_home> like I said, MeeGo will run on the N900
May 12 19:33:43 <thiago_home> (it does already, duh)
May 12 19:34:00 <thiago_home> but it will not be supported the same way that Fremantle is
May 12 19:34:04 <GAN900> Define "MeeGo". :)
May 12 19:34:12 <GAN900> Which is unfortunate
May 12 19:34:19 <thiago_home> yes, it's unfortunate
May 12 19:34:22 <thiago_home> but resources are limited
May 12 19:34:33 * GAN900 imagines where Maemo would be if Nokia would get behind the platform.
May 12 19:34:48 <GAN900> Yes, because Nokia execs are shortsighted dinosaurs.
May 12 19:34:56 <w00t_> GAN900: you're being cynical and bitter again
May 12 19:35:06 <w00t_> ;)
May 12 19:35:28 <RST38h> Maemo would be where Symbian is now
May 12 19:35:46 <RST38h> Slow, and kinky, and disliked by humanity
May 12 19:35:57 <GAN900> w00t_, well, come on.
May 12 19:36:01 <RST38h> But don't you worry General, it is getting there
May 12 19:36:08 <w00t_> "kinky" is one of the better descriptions I've heard for symbian
May 12 19:36:10 <GAN900> Limited resources isn't a valid excuse
May 12 19:36:10 * w00t_ writes that one down
May 12 19:36:21 <thiago_home> GAN900: it's not an excuse
May 12 19:36:30 <lcuk> maemo is kinky but in a nice way - its one of the most open platforms around
May 12 19:36:31 <thiago_home> it's reality
May 12 19:36:43 <thiago_home> there are only so many people in the payroll, and the money only goes so far
May 12 19:36:44 <GAN900> It's not like it's an impossible task, providing support to your customers for a reasonable period of time.
May 12 19:37:00 <GAN900> Most of the competition seems to manage it.
May 12 19:37:04 <RST38h> "open" does not sell, but a working mail client does
May 12 19:37:08 <Stskeeps> GAN900: is a nice gesture to start a system that could run on 770 too though
May 12 19:37:11 <RST38h> (e.g. Blackberry)
May 12 19:37:49 <RST38h> General: If Nokia supports your current phone, you wont buy a new one
May 12 19:37:58 <thiago_home> the only competition that really supports older versions is Apple
May 12 19:38:01 <Isac> Hey guys I m confused a bit, here is my story pl advice
May 12 19:38:09 <thiago_home> but the iPhones are basically the same device one year after the other
May 12 19:38:22 <RST38h> is that bad?
May 12 19:38:29 <w00t_> it's a statement of fact
May 12 19:38:30 <thiago_home> depends on your point of view
May 12 19:38:31 <w00t_> not a judgement
May 12 19:38:41 <thiago_home> some people think it's good, some thing it's bad
May 12 19:38:47 <thiago_home> I was reading an analysis today about this
May 12 19:38:50 * RST38h , for once, would prefer Diablo UI to Fremantle UI
May 12 19:39:00 <RST38h> Diablo UI felt complete and well thought out
May 12 19:39:03 <thiago_home> if you're developing for that platform, you know what to expect. There's absolutely no variance.
May 12 19:39:11 <Isac> ah leave it bye
May 12 19:39:23 <RST38h> thiago: Except for Steve Jobs and the toilet plunger he has up your ass
May 12 19:39:40 <Myrtti> you scared him away
May 12 19:40:01 <thiago_home> but it also means it doesn't get new features. I've seen people commenting that they wanted more buttons.
May 12 19:40:17 <RST38h> Ah, rejoice, iPhone 4G is getting more buttons
May 12 19:41:59 <lcuk> if qt's raison detre to be cross platform compatible?  and once its done once its not needed to be done again
May 12 19:42:26 <lcuk> so making it work for n900 once (as is happening/happened already) why does it take more investment?
May 12 19:42:33 <thiago_home> well, no, the raison d'être is to be the best toolkit for making apps
May 12 19:42:45 <thiago_home> sorry?
May 12 19:43:13 <w00t_> I believe he's saying: "if the software is written, why can't it run on older devices, as Qt works fine there?"
May 12 19:43:44 <thiago_home> it could
May 12 19:43:47 <lcuk> hell, if the developers of meego follow qt best practices, the n8x0 should run it?
May 12 19:44:09 <thiago_home> but we're talking about the full platform here. For example, phone application.
May 12 19:44:27 <thiago_home> The N900 doesn't have ofono. Making ofono work on the N900 hardware won't be easy.
May 12 19:44:33 <thiago_home> will it be done? Don't ask me.
May 12 19:44:57 <thiago_home> but Nokia will not support it for the official images, recommending for Joe End-user, without serious testing
May 12 19:45:32 <thiago_home> and that's where the resource problem applies: testing takes a LONG time and effort
May 12 19:46:14 <lcuk> as stated i understand the testing required and appreciate the time required
May 12 19:46:31 <thiago_home> right, but GAN900 dismissed the argument
May 12 19:47:08 <w00t_> which is where device variance really comes to bite you in the ass
May 12 19:48:35 <lcuk> when is ofono meant to hit its 1.0.
May 12 19:48:37 <lcuk> ?
May 12 19:48:53 <thiago_home> you have to ask marcel
May 12 19:49:59 <lcuk> you said earlier you have meego on n900 now, can you say if is it making calls with ofono?
May 12 19:51:05 <thiago_home> I don't have it running
May 12 19:51:24 <thiago_home> but I don't believe it makes calls yet. The HW adaptation will take longer. I could be wrong though.
May 12 19:51:51 <w00t_> thiago_home: you going to be in oslo early juneish?
May 12 19:51:59 <thiago_home> yes
May 12 19:52:13 <w00t_> excellent
May 12 19:52:15 <thiago_home> but you need to tell me in advance
May 12 19:52:29 <microlith> iirc, Jebba had oFono running on the N900 under Redhat
May 12 19:52:34 <thiago_home> trips happen at last-minute notice
May 12 19:52:50 <lcuk> microlith, wicked!
May 12 19:52:51 <w00t_> I'm heading through on my way to trondheim, so I'm kind of wondering if there's a chance to meet up with you and the rest of the crowd is all
May 12 19:53:01 <lcuk> thats surely a positive sign
May 12 19:53:02 <thiago_home> sure
May 12 19:53:10 <thiago_home> again, let me know
May 12 19:53:13 * w00t_ nods
May 12 19:53:28 <thiago_home> 8-11 are bad days, though
May 12 19:53:34 <microlith> http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Ofono
May 12 19:53:35 <w00t_> uh oh
May 12 19:53:39 <w00t_> why? :-P
May 12 19:53:44 <w00t_> (I think we might be flying on the 10th..)
May 12 19:54:18 <Myrtti> w00t_: Akademy
May 12 19:54:24 * Myrtti guesses
May 12 19:54:29 <w00t_> isn't that july?
May 12 19:54:37 <thiago_home> that's july
May 12 19:54:39 <lcuk> july
May 12 19:54:42 * Myrtti goes to buy new set of eyes
May 12 19:54:53 <thiago_home> june 10 we have our yearly summer party
May 12 19:54:54 <lcuk> as i found out yesterday in an almost identical conversation
May 12 19:55:00 <lcuk> lol Myrtti
May 12 19:55:16 <Myrtti> I'm trying to listen to a talk from the linux collab summit at the same time, give mercy
May 12 19:55:23 <lcuk> and the 11th is spent tryingto unhandcuff himself from the lamppost
May 12 19:55:25 <TSCHAKeee> hm bummer
May 12 19:55:28 <Myrtti> s/give/have/
May 12 19:55:28 <infobot> Myrtti meant: I'm trying to listen to a talk from the linux collab summit at the same time, have mercy
May 12 19:55:36 <TSCHAKeee> i thought isimodem under ofono worked enough for phone calls
May 12 19:55:39 <w00t_> thiago_home: oh dear, drunk trolls?
May 12 19:55:55 <w00t_> Myrtti: multitasking ftw
May 12 19:56:06 <thiago_home> w00t_: drunk and tired trolls, celebrating Norwegian Summer
May 12 19:56:12 * w00t_ nods
May 12 19:56:15 <Myrtti> w00t_: also trying to write blogposts
May 12 19:56:19 <w00t_> I can't wait to get over there
May 12 19:56:22 <w00t_> I love summer in .no
May 12 19:56:35 <thiago_home> so do I
May 12 19:56:38 <thiago_home> but the office is too warm
May 12 19:56:52 * OgMaciel would love to visit .no
May 12 19:57:31 <thiago_home> orospakr: 21:57 here, sky is still bright
May 12 19:57:35 <thiago_home> not day, but still bright
May 12 19:57:42 <w00t_> midnight sun++
May 12 19:57:43 <w00t_> :P
May 12 19:57:55 <thiago_home> no, you have to go much further North for that
May 12 19:58:12 <thiago_home> Oslo is just shy of 60°N
May 12 19:58:19 <w00t_> well yeah, but it's still quite bright
May 12 19:58:26 <w00t_> (i presume - never been to osl, only trd)
May 12 19:58:40 <thiago_home> Tampere, however, is 62°N
May 12 19:58:49 <thiago_home> so in the first week of July, there is no night
May 12 19:58:53 <thiago_home> only daytime and twilight
May 12 19:59:34 * w00t_ is -still- undecided about going to akademy
May 12 20:01:12 <lcuk> w00t_, is your GSOC student from around there?
May 12 20:01:22 <lcuk> it would be a good central place for you to get to meet him if so
May 12 20:01:40 * thiago_home thinks Tampere is anything but central
May 12 20:01:57 <lcuk> ok not quite the right word
May 12 20:02:28 <w00t_> lcuk: no, student is kamilla, so I already know her pretty well :p - though this reminds me, I need to check she's found her way around Qt's modelview stuff
May 12 20:02:31 <w00t_> brik: ^^
May 12 20:02:59 <thiago_home> poor student
May 12 20:03:05 * lcuk does not know your relationship to kamilla
May 12 20:03:19 <w00t_> lcuk: other half
May 12 20:03:24 <lcuk> o_O
May 12 20:03:33 <lcuk> isnt there laws about that sort of thing :p
May 12 20:03:50 <thiago_home> there should be laws against teaching modelview
May 12 20:03:55 <w00t_> hahaha
May 12 20:03:59 <lcuk> lol
May 12 20:04:01 <w00t_> thiago_home: you don't like it?
May 12 20:04:08 * brik waves
May 12 20:04:13 <thiago_home> I don't know it, actually
May 12 20:04:26 <thiago_home> but Interview is one of the technologies recognised as flawed in Qt
May 12 20:04:33 <thiago_home> it was rushed in 4.0, before it was ready
May 12 20:04:42 <w00t_> I dislike parts of it, delegates not knowing much/anything about the view it's working for is absolutely irritating
May 12 20:04:57 <thiago_home> when was the last time you needed a hierarchical table?
May 12 20:05:03 <w00t_> hehe.
May 12 20:05:04 <w00t_> yes
May 12 20:05:11 <thiago_home> or changing the model in a combobox?
May 12 20:05:13 <w00t_> trying to jam scematics of lists and tables together is, urm, interesting
May 12 20:05:24 <thiago_home> w00t_: tables, list and trees
May 12 20:05:27 <thiago_home> it's a hierarchical table
May 12 20:05:29 <RST38h> like...yesterday?
May 12 20:05:34 <w00t_> sorry, trees, yeah
May 12 20:05:35 <w00t_> forgot that one
May 12 20:05:42 <thiago_home> RST38h: sorry, I meant the view
May 12 20:05:54 <RST38h> hierarchical view, yes
May 12 20:05:57 <RST38h> pretty common
May 12 20:06:06 <thiago_home> ever tried clicking the tree-expansion + sign in a drop-down popup of a combobox?
May 12 20:06:20 <RST38h> no but then I have not see any
May 12 20:06:26 <RST38h> seen
May 12 20:06:36 <thiago_home> set a tree view in your combobox
May 12 20:07:03 <thiago_home> and how often do you display the same model in more than one different type of view?
May 12 20:07:14 <w00t_> that does actually happen
May 12 20:07:17 <w00t_> (I've doen that fairly often)
May 12 20:07:19 <lcuk> wouldnt that come up with nice bold header items (does bugzilla do that?)
May 12 20:07:43 * lcuk sees data like that in combos, but not with foldup branches
May 12 20:07:46 <thiago_home> lcuk: that's different. I meant like a collapsed tree inside the drop-down.
May 12 20:07:58 <w00t_> e.g. in a file browser, icon view, list of files view, tree view
May 12 20:08:15 <thiago_home> that's true, of course
May 12 20:08:26 <thiago_home> but that doesn't need to be reflected in the API
May 12 20:08:40 <w00t_> it isn't, as far as I know
May 12 20:08:52 <w00t_> the model has no idea what view it is attached to
May 12 20:08:57 <w00t_> it just provides the information the view asks for
May 12 20:09:03 <thiago_home> that's the point
May 12 20:09:12 <thiago_home> the QAbstractItemModel class is too abstract
May 12 20:09:24 <thiago_home> it could be designed for convenience, for being just a list or a table model
May 12 20:09:53 <w00t_> well, that is why QAbstractListModel and QAbstractTableModel exist though
May 12 20:10:15 <thiago_home> ItemViews-NG has a more convenient API
May 12 20:10:17 <lcuk> other than that, w00t_ are you finding the class structures ok?
May 12 20:10:44 <w00t_> thiago_home: short view: I'd definitely like to see improvements, yes.
May 12 20:10:47 <w00t_> ;p
May 12 20:10:48 <lcuk> or rather, brik are you liking them!
May 12 20:10:53 <lcuk> you can PM if you like
May 12 20:10:59 * lcuk giggles
May 12 20:14:14 <mikhas> err, you claim that you can use an abstract model in more than one view? my findings on formatting the model's data teached me that each view needs its own proxy model anyway
May 12 20:14:58 <mikhas> it's because view's responsibilities leaked in the model what made QAIM useless
May 12 20:15:07 <mikhas> s/in/into
May 12 20:15:08 <w00t_> you can use an instance of a model for multiple views, yes
May 12 20:15:13 <w00t_> (without a proxy)
May 12 20:15:16 <mikhas> it is near useless though
May 12 20:15:25 <mikhas> sort them in one view
May 12 20:15:30 <mikhas> they get sorted in all other views
May 12 20:15:32 <w00t_> sorting isn't using
May 12 20:15:40 <mikhas> w/e
May 12 20:15:42 <w00t_> my use was purely display
May 12 20:16:16 <w00t_> for sorting on different views, yeah, you'll probably need QSortFilterProxyModel instances inbetween
May 12 20:17:14 <brik> lcuk: seems okay so far ^^
May 12 20:17:47 <lcuk> brik, remember though you are developing facebrick application, dont go too hard on him ;)
May 12 20:18:29 <w00t_> vice versa
May 12 20:18:36 <w00t_> I'll have to make sure I don't work her to death
May 12 20:19:44 <brik> I suppose I could ask you a shit load of questions
May 12 20:19:48 <lcuk> lol
May 12 20:20:31 <lcuk> anyway time for me to wander off, got some python to fiddle with
May 12 20:20:41 <lcuk> \o laterz everyone
May 12 20:20:46 <w00t_> lcuk: let me know how it goes ;)
May 12 20:21:11 <lcuk> sure will  w00t_ but tonight im gonna just be mucking about with regular desktop widgets
May 12 20:21:34 <lcuk> ive got some apps i need to see if i can make in it, still finding my footing somewhat
May 12 20:28:36 <Myrtti> hm, have I eaten yet today?
May 12 20:28:40 <Myrtti> I believe I haven't
May 12 20:29:06 <w00t_> Myrtti: when you have to ask that question, you're in dangerous territory
May 12 20:29:07 <w00t_> :P
May 12 20:30:23 * suihkulokki pokes timeless
May 12 20:31:11 <Myrtti> w00t_: most of the time I acn't remember. I forget to eat. Then i eat too much when I do remember to eat.
May 12 20:31:32 * w00t_ sympathises
May 12 20:31:45 <CosmoHill> :/
May 12 20:32:09 <Myrtti> my boyfriend pokes me on IM on lunchtime and asks have I eaten, and usually the answer is no. Woes of telecommuting, working from home I don't have workmates to poke me to go to lunch
May 12 20:32:20 <w00t_> yeah
May 12 20:32:29 <w00t_> I often have that happen
May 12 20:34:31 <b-man> hmm, no one has seen this quite critical bug yet :P http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1872
May 12 20:37:13 <w00t_> b-man: might be worth trying #meego-arm
May 12 20:38:34 <Efan> Hi all again
May 12 20:47:31 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: have you heard anything regarding if there'll be a place for the IRC bots + logs etc on meego infrastructure?
May 12 20:48:12 <Stskeeps> would be good to centralize things before development flourishes, i guess :)
May 12 20:48:30 <DawnFoster> stskeeps: yes, eventually we'll have a place for them. Right now, we have a bunch of hardware on order & plans to move stuff to those new boxes at OSU
May 12 20:48:36 <Stskeeps> :nod:
May 12 20:48:54 <Stskeeps> i'm obviously volunteering to help out with setup when time is
May 12 20:48:58 <DawnFoster> when we start getting things moved to OSU, that's probably a good time to add bots / logs.
May 12 20:49:10 <DawnFoster> I'll poke mrshaver about it anyway :)
May 12 20:49:39 <Efan> Can I install .deb file on meego
May 12 20:49:52 <Stskeeps> Efan: if converted with 'alien', maybe
May 12 20:50:12 <Stskeeps> but i wouldn't bet on it
May 12 20:50:12 <w00t_> Stskeeps / DawnFoster: I'm happy to help with that too
May 12 20:50:53 * Stskeeps vouches for w00t, did a lot of IRC daemon coding over the years
May 12 20:50:54 <Efan> stskeeps: sorry I could not get you, do you mean .deb can not be installed on Meego
May 12 20:51:02 <Stskeeps> Efan: it is a RPM based distribution
May 12 20:51:13 <GAN900> Myrtti, aw, but that's what you have an N900 with alarms for.
May 12 20:51:33 <Myrtti> GAN900: a what? ;-P
May 12 20:52:29 * Myrtti pets her Nexus One http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/4587642838/ *petpet*
May 12 20:53:29 * timeless_mbp pokes suihkulokki
May 12 20:54:39 <DawnFoster> w00t_ / Stskeeps - I'm on im with mrshaver right now talking about you guys :)
May 12 20:57:26 <w00t_> DawnFoster: cool :)
May 12 20:57:59 <DawnFoster> We decided it would be best to wait until we have new servers to avoid having to move more stuff to OSU
May 12 20:58:21 <DawnFoster> we'll probably enlist your help to get the logs / bots for IRC moved over
May 12 20:58:32 <Stskeeps> you need to check with OSU if IRC is allowed too
May 12 20:58:49 <Stskeeps> (just for good measure) - I think they used to have some policy
May 12 20:59:13 <lcuk> moving from freenode or logs only?
May 12 20:59:16 <DawnFoster> will do - I have a friend who is their sys admin
May 12 20:59:19 <w00t_> logs only, lcuk
May 12 20:59:23 <Stskeeps> logs, meeting bot, etc
May 12 20:59:48 <GAN900> Myrtti, what, after the cursing out you gave it in SF?
May 12 20:59:58 <lcuk> ahh cool the bot itself runs somewhere ofc
May 12 21:00:11 <DawnFoster> stskeeps - where is the meeting bot running right now?
May 12 21:00:26 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: on a virtual machine where i also run my IRC client
May 12 21:00:28 <DawnFoster> and are there any other bots that I'm forgetting about?
May 12 21:00:40 <Stskeeps> well, there's mgedmin's logs for this channel
May 12 21:01:03 <Stskeeps> and then i run a seperate one for #meego-arm, but #meego-* should be centrally logged
May 12 21:01:08 <DawnFoster> I assume there isn't anything special we need to run either of those? standard stack stuff?
May 12 21:01:14 <w00t_> should be
May 12 21:01:18 <Stskeeps> just standard stuff
May 12 21:01:27 <Stskeeps> maybe a couple of packages, but that's it
May 12 21:01:57 <jrayhawk> I notice a bunch of the infrastructure seems to be pretty slow in getting put up; do you guys need system administrators?
May 12 21:02:42 <Stskeeps> jrayhawk: think most of it is because hw is getting ordered and put into OSUOSL
May 12 21:03:16 <DawnFoster> jrayhawk: the hold up is corporate purchasing departments - servers are a capital expense and the ordering process takes flipping forever
May 12 21:03:43 <DawnFoster> as soon as we get the servers, it should be pretty smooth
May 12 21:03:57 <DawnFoster> but we can ask mrshaver if he needs more sysadmin support.
May 12 21:04:09 <GAN900> Hopefully expansion planning goes more smoothly with MeeGo than it did with maemo.org. . . .
May 12 21:04:15 <DawnFoster> we have a couple at Intel, another at LF and maybe someone at Nokia who helps, too
May 12 21:04:17 <jrayhawk> I guess that makes sense. I've heard horror stories about Intel IT bureaucracy.
May 12 21:04:19 <w00t_> GAN900: hahaha. you know I just had that *exact* thought
May 12 21:04:30 <DawnFoster> no comment :)
May 12 21:04:31 <w00t_> "it's like the 'maemo new ISP' all over again!" ..
May 12 21:04:41 <arjan> finding rackspace is always fun
May 12 21:04:43 <arjan> ';)
May 12 21:04:44 * RST38h is having the "you wish" thought a lot lately
May 12 21:04:49 <arjan> esp if you want physical security etc as well
May 12 21:05:05 <DawnFoster> We're moving everything to OSU & they have a lot of experience scaling infrastructure
May 12 21:05:06 <arjan> and not pay a biiiiiiilion dollars
May 12 21:05:06 <GAN900> This would be one area where meego.com would be well off tapping maemo.org experience. :)
May 12 21:05:18 <DawnFoster> they run kernel.org and a bunch of other big projects
May 12 21:05:21 <RST38h> You want fun, try IT support at the local office...
May 12 21:05:22 <Stskeeps> just assume we'll be a huge project and we should be fine
May 12 21:05:32 * Stskeeps has a good impression of osuosl too
May 12 21:06:22 <DawnFoster> osuosl has huge pipes, lots of expertise and really great people
May 12 21:06:41 <DawnFoster> I wish we'd had stuff like that when I was going to school for comp sci
May 12 21:06:57 <DawnFoster> we did have a UNIX sys admin class, which was awesome
May 12 21:07:18 <DawnFoster> OSU has sys admin classes, open source programming and other cool stuff
May 12 21:08:57 <w00t_> it can always be worse
May 12 21:08:58 <Stskeeps> i had initially thought you were 'just' MBA or whatever, but cool to know you have a comp.sci background too :) bet it comes in handy in a lot of cases
May 12 21:09:29 <DawnFoster> stskeeps: I started my career as a sys admin
May 12 21:09:40 <DawnFoster> for a bunch of UNIX boxes
May 12 21:10:00 <Stskeeps> respect ;)
May 12 21:10:13 <TSCHAKeee> indeed.
May 12 21:10:16 <TSCHAKeee> :)
May 12 21:10:17 <DawnFoster> that's how I got roped into open source originally and got more and more fascinated with the way the communities worked together to get so much killer stuff done.
May 12 21:10:21 <DawnFoster> :)
May 12 21:10:45 * arjan is glad he never did comp.sci... and thinking of it, not really sysadmin jobs either (more programming ones)
May 12 21:11:01 <TSCHAKeee> i didn't either
May 12 21:11:04 <TSCHAKeee> am completely self taught
May 12 21:11:23 <Stskeeps> i'm happy with some of the stuff i got taught, others are just .. good to have in the back hand
May 12 21:11:26 <DawnFoster> well, I tried programming, too and hated it (C programming) - sys admin was a cool job, tho
May 12 21:11:36 <TSCHAKeee> was just lucky i grew up in a family with a father who had both money, and an obsession with electronics and computing hardware...
May 12 21:11:36 <w00t_> I'll be going through education One Day
May 12 21:11:37 <Stskeeps> social computing and knowing how communities develop etc come in handy at times
May 12 21:11:39 <w00t_> when that is I still don't know
May 12 21:11:48 <arjan> I did electrical engineering (focus on chip design). The irony is Intel hiring me for my software work ;-)
May 12 21:13:08 <TSCHAKeee> i learned how chips were designed by studying schematics... i was just curious.. working my way up through different chips... first cpu i ever studied was the MOS 6502...
May 12 21:13:10 <DawnFoster> TSCHAKeee: I had a grandfather & dad who were huge into ham radio and they eventually got into computers, which is how I ended up there
May 12 21:13:18 <TSCHAKeee> DawnFoster: awesome isn't it? ;)
May 12 21:13:23 <DawnFoster> I also have a ham radio license :)
May 12 21:13:36 <DawnFoster> not that I've used it really
May 12 21:13:53 <lcuk> o_O SMS by morse code
May 12 21:13:59 <TSCHAKeee> heeheee
May 12 21:14:12 <lcuk> who needs portrait keyboard
May 12 21:14:17 <lcuk> we have a beeper doofer
May 12 21:14:18 <DawnFoster> yeah, I wish I remembered more morse code.
May 12 21:14:35 <lcuk> that would be awesome thinking about it
May 12 21:14:41 <TSCHAKeee> amateur packet radio impressed the hell out of me
May 12 21:14:44 <DawnFoster> it's been 20-25 years since I used it, I think
May 12 21:14:56 <TSCHAKeee> even moreso that they hooked it up to the internet...
May 12 21:15:33 <TSCHAKeee> stories of guys with mobile internet connections in their cars, with packet radios
May 12 21:15:41 <TSCHAKeee> in the early 80s
May 12 21:27:13 <DawnFoster> stskeeps: I talked to Lance at OSU and we should be OK for our IRC stuff at OSU. They have special rules if you were going to set up something like a freenode server, but for logs / bots we should be fine.
May 12 21:28:25 <Stskeeps> :nod: sounds sane
May 12 21:28:31 <Stskeeps> thanks for asking
May 12 21:28:46 <jrayhawk> I can also host stuff at PSU pretty easily if that should be desirable.
May 12 21:29:41 <jrayhawk> Like, immediately.
May 12 21:33:10 <lbt> jrayhawk: I think that stuff has been agreed upon, and by the sound of it it's a fair few racks full of kit
May 12 21:36:05 <DawnFoster> it's really just a matter of waiting for hardware to arrive at OSU. We have everything hosted right now here in Portland, but we'll have a better setup at OSU (more scalable)
May 12 21:36:16 <DawnFoster> and we're trying to avoid moving things more than once :)
May 12 21:36:50 <DawnFoster> I could move the logs / bots to our servers now, but then we'd have to move them again.
May 12 21:37:43 <Stskeeps> i think it's probably better to just set up when we're settled in - more long term
May 12 21:37:52 <Stskeeps> for now, they're not going anywhere
May 12 21:39:11 <lbt> what's the ETA DawnFoster?
May 12 21:39:28 <DawnFoster> lbt: that's the million dollar question :)
May 12 21:39:45 * lbt is wondering whether some of the volunteers could do with some VMs to start playing on
May 12 21:40:48 <DawnFoster> I know the servers are ordered, but the purchasing process takes some time.
May 12 21:41:15 <lbt> Tero + Neils gave me a machine and a week or so later I have an OBS and process kinda ready to redeploy on real hardware
May 12 21:41:45 <lbt> so I'm wondering if there's merit in getting people to setup environments *knowing* that they need redeployment
May 12 21:41:54 <X-Fade> lbt: Optimistic as always ;)
May 12 21:42:10 <lbt> heh
May 12 21:42:20 <lbt> actually, pessimistic about when the real gear will arrive
May 12 21:42:28 <X-Fade> But indeed not a small effort.
May 12 21:42:36 <Efan> Hi can any body let me know what do i need to do too see my N900 on my Linux/windows PC, Meego is installed on n900 and it is booted. I can not see this device when I connect with USB to my windows/linux pc
May 12 21:43:32 <DawnFoster> I think that mrshaver and the sys admin at the linux foundation are coordinating the move
May 12 21:43:48 <lbt> DawnFoster: I could do with a machine to deploy a release reporting aplication onto
May 12 21:43:52 <DawnFoster> I think we're ready to move things as soon as the boxes arrive
May 12 21:44:22 <X-Fade> OBS security and server security is a thing that really needs to be tested though.
May 12 21:44:36 <DawnFoster> lbt: that's probably a better question for mrshaver
May 12 21:44:39 <lbt> X-Fade: yes, that's what I mean
May 12 21:44:55 <DawnFoster> not sure how we've allocated those machines or what the priorities are
May 12 21:45:17 <X-Fade> DawnFoster: This is probably for some additional servers Tero ordered.
May 12 21:45:37 <lbt> X-Fade: the OBS?
May 12 21:45:38 <X-Fade> Or I might be wrong and those are the same ones ;)
May 12 21:45:39 <DawnFoster> Yeah, mike and tero both have servers on order :)
May 12 21:46:13 <DawnFoster> I've been asking Mike about the servers almost every day :)
May 12 21:46:32 <X-Fade> "It is coming" ;)
May 12 21:46:48 <DawnFoster> exactly :)
May 12 21:47:04 <lbt> mmm that's what they said about my monitor... 6 weeks later....
May 12 21:47:18 <lbt> "we'll chase it for you"
May 12 21:47:30 <lbt> too right you will sonny
May 12 21:49:52 <X-Fade> lbt: Well at least I finally managed to get you one test machine, although that also took 2 months ;)
May 12 21:52:04 <lbt> :D
May 12 21:52:11 <lbt> and look what we got...
May 12 21:52:26 <lbt> although I've been kicking django tonight...
May 12 21:52:56 <lbt> but it's a holiday tomorrow so I may do some anti-scratchbox work then
May 12 21:53:44 <lcuk> lbt, whats up with it
May 12 21:53:55 <lbt> django? or sbox?
May 12 21:54:02 <X-Fade> anti-scratchbox ftw!
May 12 21:54:55 <lbt> actually, I had a thought in the shower...
May 12 21:55:04 <lbt> we could install scratchbox into the obs chroot
May 12 21:55:09 <lbt> Stskeeps ^^
May 12 21:55:14 <lbt> rpath it
May 12 21:55:25 <Efan> Hi can any one pl help me with this little thing of Meego
May 12 21:55:29 <Stskeeps> oi, that was my insane idea
May 12 21:55:37 <lbt> not with rpath
May 12 21:55:42 <Stskeeps> don't make it worse
May 12 21:55:42 <Stskeeps> :P
May 12 21:55:51 <lbt> that would be quite interesting
May 12 21:56:01 <X-Fade> I have someone else hear speak about that insane idea.
May 12 21:56:31 <X-Fade> I also remeber a certain someone laughing about that idea.
May 12 21:56:35 <Efan> HELLO EVERY ONE CAN ANY ONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH MEEGO AND USB STUFF???
May 12 21:56:37 <lbt> really putting sbox in would be insane... the workers couldn't cope
May 12 21:56:56 <lbt> but putting the binaries into the chroot
May 12 21:57:07 <lbt> (can anyone else hear a faint voice?)
May 12 21:57:28 <lbt> just wondering about it...
May 12 21:58:12 <lbt> Efan: I've not run MeeGo on my N900 yet - I use a joggler and that has ethernet
May 12 21:58:16 <lbt> much easier :)
May 12 21:58:29 <lbt> plus I like my phone
May 12 21:58:56 <Efan> lbt: any idea hint what should I look into?
May 12 21:59:18 <glinpus> Efan: perhps you need to load usbnet?
May 12 21:59:29 <lbt> not really it's 1am in finland though... don't hold your breath
May 12 21:59:36 <glinpus> that's what my old zaurus uses
May 12 22:00:01 <lbt> I've not heard of them using usbnet
May 12 22:00:12 <lbt> or usb... but I could easily be wrong
May 12 22:00:19 <lbt> there has been work on wifi though
May 12 22:00:31 <lbt> lr
May 12 22:00:42 * lbt gets a new 8
May 12 22:00:45 <Efan> to load any thing my device has to have any connection and thats waht the problem is itis not recognizing usb
May 12 22:03:45 <Myrtti> oo, tell me more about your device
May 12 22:08:32 <lbt> mmm Efan you want an N900 to do usbnet?
May 12 22:08:44 <lbt> which means it needs to be a usb host iirc?
May 12 22:09:10 <thiago_home> plug the USB cable and select "PC suite mode"
May 12 22:09:14 <lbt> and, afaik, the N900 can't do that (although that could be a kernel limitation and meego may have it)
May 12 22:09:39 <lbt> thiago_home: he's running MeeGo FYI...
May 12 22:09:54 <thiago_home> well, if Fremantle can do it, so can MeeGo
May 12 22:10:25 <lbt> yeah, but doesn't the N900 act as a usb gadget in that case?
May 12 22:10:46 <thiago_home> I don't know. It's enough to do USB networking.
May 12 22:11:30 <lbt> ok - I never plugged mine into a windows box :)
May 12 22:12:07 <thiago_home> on Linux, all it requires doing is ifconfig usb0 on both ends (workstation and device)
May 12 22:15:11 <lbt> cool - didn't realise... always used wifi
May 12 22:24:03 <Efan> thiago: sry was gone out and could respond, I am hving meego on my N900 no any utility software there
May 12 22:24:39 <thiago_home> right, the current image boots to xterm
May 12 22:25:09 <Efan> yes I can see command parompt and I can do Ls or what every
May 12 22:25:44 <glinpus> so you can do modprobe and ifconfig, no?
May 12 22:25:52 <Efan> my problem is I want to copy my Qt application on it and see how it runs, I have crossed compile qt app using MADDE
May 12 22:26:17 <thiago_home> Efan: modprobe the kernel module for usb networking, bring up networking, start the ssh server and do the copy
May 12 22:27:49 <Efan> thiago: Ah.. looks like more work :( okay i will try that though dont knwo how to modprobe it for usb networking but will google it and see if I can do it, THANX for your help though
May 12 22:28:32 <thiago_home> Efan: please understand you're using the early preview of the device-creation image
May 12 22:28:36 <thiago_home> you don't have an SDK
May 12 22:28:50 <thiago_home> it's just an early preview. The SDK will come later (soon).
May 12 22:29:08 <thiago_home> if you want to develop an app, I recommend you stick to Maemo 5 for now.
May 12 22:29:36 <Efan> thiago: yea I can understand it is still unborn baby :)
May 12 22:31:38 <Efan> thiago: Maemo is going to be depreciated by nokia as many ppl say on internet thats why we are trying to start for Meego, though I appreciate you suggesion as Maemo will provide much ease for writing app
May 12 22:32:07 <thiago_home> Maemo 5 isn't going anywhere for a while
May 12 22:32:17 <thiago_home> there will be at least one or two more updates to it
May 12 22:32:34 <thiago_home> you can develop your apps for it until there's a good environment for MeeGo anyway
May 12 22:32:55 <thiago_home> you won't be wasting your time doing this, and you'll probably be saving on headaches with the early image
May 12 22:33:29 <Corsac> well, if there are two more updates, that means support for at least one or two years :)
May 12 22:33:50 <thiago_home> I don't know of 2011 plans
May 12 22:33:53 <thiago_home> I meant updates this year
May 12 22:34:26 <thiago_home> PR1.2 is coming out very soon now ™
May 12 22:34:28 <Corsac> I'm not sure there's enough time this year to ship two updates on top of pr1.2 :)
May 12 22:34:40 <Efan> what is PR1.2??
May 12 22:34:41 <thiago_home> I meant PR1.2 as one of the updates
May 12 22:34:52 <thiago_home> PR1.3 I'm hoping will carry Qt 4.7
May 12 22:34:56 <thiago_home> Efan: Product Release
May 12 22:35:04 <thiago_home> it's the version of Maemo 5 you have installed
May 12 22:35:08 <Efan> ah stuipid me
May 12 22:35:16 <w00t_> thiago_home: that makes two of us :)
May 12 22:35:21 * w00t_ is happy with Qt 4.7
May 12 22:35:33 <Efan> :)
May 12 22:35:37 <thiago_home> the original plans were PR1.3 with 4.6.3 and 1.4 with 4.7
May 12 22:35:43 <thiago_home> but then 1.2 got delayed so much...
May 12 22:35:57 * lcuk hangs his head
May 12 22:36:05 * w00t_ blames lcuk for everything
May 12 22:36:11 <tripzero> 1.2 will have 4.7?
May 12 22:36:14 <tripzero> that'd be cool
May 12 22:36:16 <w00t_> tripzero: no
May 12 22:36:17 <thiago_home> 1.2 will have 4.6.2
May 12 22:36:27 <thiago_home> 4.7 isn't finished yet, just entered beta
May 12 22:36:28 <tripzero> oh... that's not as cool :(
May 12 22:36:32 <w00t_> thiago_home *hopes* it will come in the future :p
May 12 22:36:32 <lcuk> lol
May 12 22:36:37 <thiago_home> however, once 1.2 is out, Qt 4.7 will be in extras-devel
May 12 22:36:39 <Efan> 1.3 will have 4.7 as thiago says
May 12 22:36:46 <w00t_> Efan: *may*
May 12 22:36:50 <thiago_home> Efan: I hope it will.
May 12 22:37:01 <lcuk> thiago_home, all clean and compatible without conflicts and tears ?
May 12 22:37:09 <thiago_home> lcuk: for once :-)
May 12 22:37:14 <lcuk> sounds good
May 12 22:37:21 <w00t_> lcuk: Qt on Maemo is ABI compatible from 4.6 upwards (fingers crossed)
May 12 22:37:34 <thiago_home> then we can break again, for other reasons
May 12 22:37:42 * thiago_home proposes using hard-fp ABI
May 12 22:37:44 <lcuk> :) cool
May 12 22:37:50 <w00t_> thiago_home: you just like breaking things, don't you/
May 12 22:37:52 <w00t_> :P
May 12 22:38:02 <thiago_home> w00t_: I broke QUrl last week
May 12 22:38:02 * lcuk treads the well used api pathways
May 12 22:38:20 <w00t_> thiago_home: that's ok, I've screwed Qt up a few times locally this week
May 12 22:38:35 <thiago_home> my patch got reverted while I was away
May 12 22:39:54 <w00t_> what was the patch? :-)
May 12 22:40:00 <thiago_home> so we should blame Ubuntu for this
May 12 22:40:18 <w00t_> wait, what? you were away, so blame ubuntu? :-D
May 12 22:40:22 <thiago_home> fixing QUrl's local file interpretation code, to understand that URLs with no scheme are not local files
May 12 22:40:40 <thiago_home> "/home/foo/bar.jpg" is not "file:///home/foo/bar.jpg"
May 12 22:41:05 <thiago_home> I was away at the Ubuntu Developer Summit
May 12 22:41:08 <w00t_> ah
May 12 22:41:36 <thiago_home> of course, this broke QtXmlPatterns, QtDeclarative and QtGui's CSS code
May 12 22:41:46 <thiago_home> or, rather, exposed existing bugs
May 12 22:43:37 <lcuk> lol thiago
May 12 22:43:56 <w00t_> I should start patching QtGui's CSS stuff :-(
May 12 22:44:02 <w00t_> I've noticed a few oddities with it
May 12 22:44:05 * TSCHAK2 notes that PR1.2 speculation thread is by far the largest thread on t.m.o _EVAR_
May 12 22:44:32 <TSCHAK2> soon they'll be making references to duke nukem forever
May 12 22:44:37 <lcuk> TSCHAK2, join in, tell them we said hi and it will be there asap
May 12 22:44:39 <TSCHAK2> it's only a matter of time. :P :)
May 12 22:44:45 <thiago_home> TSCHAK2: it will come in two weeks
May 12 22:44:46 <thiago_home> :-P
May 12 22:44:53 <lcuk> that was about 2000 pages ago
May 12 22:44:56 <TSCHAK2> i know, i've been listening
May 12 22:44:58 <w00t_> thiago_home: do you mean second week, 2011?
May 12 22:44:59 <w00t_> :-)
May 12 22:45:00 <lcuk> we pre installed DNF and removed it again
May 12 22:45:31 <thiago_home> w00t_: give me two weeks and I'll tell you
May 12 22:45:39 * Myrtti sniffles her Sharpies
May 12 22:45:45 <TSCHAK2> spoken like a true software developer
May 12 22:45:46 <TSCHAK2> :P
May 12 22:46:23 <b-man> i wonder how many GBs of space that PR1.2 thread is taking up on that server
May 12 23:36:38 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
May 12 23:37:25 <CosmoHill> night trem
May 12 23:47:24 <Termana> good morning
May 13 00:37:24 <ptl> LOL
May 13 00:37:33 <ptl> I just read that the standard fs of meego is btrfs
May 13 00:37:37 <ptl> how unusual.
May 13 00:38:59 <Aranel> ptl: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODI0NA
May 13 00:40:15 <ptl> sure, but ubuntu is not an OS for small systems.
May 13 00:47:42 <TSCHAK2> why is that unusual?
May 13 00:47:49 <TSCHAK2> btrfs is a very well designed filesystem
May 13 00:48:10 <TSCHAK2> that is very efficient in serial reads
May 13 00:51:16 <ptl> 300MB metada overhead in a 1 GB file system, maybe?
May 13 00:51:24 <ptl> s/metada/metadata/
May 13 00:51:24 <infobot> ptl meant: 300MB metadata overhead in a 1 GB file system, maybe?
May 13 00:51:45 <ptl> high memory overhead due to all the kernel structures?
May 13 00:51:56 <ptl> in a device that is already low on memory
May 13 00:54:16 * TSCHAK2 rolls eyes...
May 13 00:54:34 <TSCHAK2> I see you're in an expert
May 13 00:54:39 <TSCHAK2> s/in//
May 13 00:54:40 <infobot> TSCHAK2 meant: I see you're  an expert
May 13 00:55:00 <TSCHAK2> have a better suggestion?
May 13 00:55:58 <TSCHAK2> ptl, i take it you've been following the LKML ?
May 13 00:56:09 <TSCHAK2> ptl, so you know the status of btrfs?
May 13 00:57:52 <TSCHAK2> ...guess not.
May 13 00:58:42 <ptl> I was just trolling to get an explanation
May 13 00:58:44 <ptl> no
May 13 00:58:53 <TSCHAK2> there's your first mistake.
May 13 00:59:02 <ptl> :D
May 13 00:59:07 <ptl> what's the second one?
May 13 00:59:22 <TSCHAK2> ...
May 13 00:59:26 * TSCHAK2 shakes head.
May 13 00:59:39 <TSCHAK2> if you wish an explanation, Arjan has gone over this...
May 13 00:59:41 * ptl wonders if TSCHAK2 is a headbanger. Heavy metal fan?
May 13 00:59:42 <TSCHAK2> but to paraphrase:
May 13 01:00:01 <TSCHAK2> btrfs is being regarded by most of the kernel community as the future of linux based filesystems...
May 13 01:00:10 <ptl> I saw that message
May 13 01:00:22 <ptl> but... I wonder if there will be "one" filesystem as winner
May 13 01:00:27 <TSCHAK2> the majority of the code that has formed btrfs has been stable since Sept. of last year.
May 13 01:00:30 <ptl> the linux community is fond of its diversity.
May 13 01:00:52 <ptl> anyway, the most important thing would be its suitability for small systems
May 13 01:00:56 <TSCHAK2> indeed. but many of btrfs's features are of importance to meego
May 13 01:00:56 <ptl> btrfs doesn't seem suitable for it
May 13 01:00:58 <ptl> isn't it?
May 13 01:01:01 <ptl> I saw that message too :)
May 13 01:01:05 <ptl> well
May 13 01:01:13 <ptl> you get stressed easy. I'll read more about it, ok?
May 13 01:01:19 <ptl> *easily
May 13 01:01:33 <TSCHAK2> yeah, i'm tired of people blindly following each other
May 13 01:01:36 <TSCHAK2> and not getting facts.
May 13 01:02:13 <TSCHAK2> moblin has been running on small devices for over a year now
May 13 01:02:49 <TSCHAK2> with regular snapshots being tried on the n900 and the aava mobile phone units
May 13 01:17:37 <ptl> TSCHAK2: ok, but .deb is better than rpm :D
May 13 01:17:40 * ptl runs
May 13 01:20:10 <TSCHAK2> :P
May 13 01:57:48 <ohnoyoudidint> DCC SEND startkeylogger 0 0 0
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