**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 13 02:59:56 2010
May 13 05:30:09 <TSCHAKeee> man,
May 13 05:30:15 <TSCHAKeee> the maemo forums have become _VERY_ depressing
May 13 05:30:35 <TSCHAKeee> sigh
May 13 05:30:39 <TSCHAKeee> :(
May 13 05:30:53 <Stskeeps> used /thankedposts.php
May 13 05:30:55 <Stskeeps> use
May 13 05:31:16 <TSCHAKeee> really...
May 13 05:31:26 <TSCHAKeee> there are scores of people who are _PISSED_ over the n900
May 13 05:31:29 <TSCHAKeee> and PR1.2
May 13 05:31:41 <Stskeeps> well, the n900 is actually fairly fine piece of hardware
May 13 05:31:51 <TSCHAKeee> it is
May 13 05:32:00 <TSCHAKeee> best damn hardware brick i have _EVER_ had
May 13 05:32:04 <TSCHAKeee> no joke
May 13 05:32:14 <Stskeeps> pr1.2 is another topic that is nokia's own fault for making people severely addicted to the thing
May 13 05:32:17 <Stskeeps> :P
May 13 05:32:52 <TSCHAKeee> i honestly wish nokia would open up apps so we could.. you know... add basic features that should have been there in the first place..but oh well
May 13 05:33:17 <Stskeeps> yes, but that's not going to happen :/
May 13 05:33:23 <TSCHAKeee> i know
May 13 05:33:40 <TSCHAKeee> and i don't know what to do... maybe we can make meego better
May 13 05:33:45 <TSCHAKeee> i hope.
May 13 05:34:04 <TSCHAKeee> but way too many...way too many people just angry over how nokia has handled the end user aspects of the n900
May 13 05:34:37 <Stskeeps> on the other hand
May 13 05:34:44 <Stskeeps> the crappy apps at times motivated a lot of 3rd party development
May 13 05:34:45 <TSCHAKeee> (for the record, i am more than ecstatic over my n900.. I love it...)
May 13 05:34:50 <Stskeeps> creating itches for people to scratch
May 13 05:34:50 <TSCHAKeee> yes.
May 13 05:35:50 * TSCHAKeee can't wait for the next meego code drop...
May 13 05:35:58 <TSCHAKeee> are there obs notes on the meego wiki?
May 13 05:36:55 <Stskeeps> i think lbt is setting up some at the maemo.org wiki, may contain useful bits for meego too
May 13 05:37:06 <TSCHAKeee> ok
May 13 05:37:50 <Stskeeps> i fully expect there'll be docs how to set up your own company obs :P
May 13 05:37:53 <TSCHAKeee> the last run of mic2 for me created a really tiny livecd image that didn't make it all the way to an xterm...
May 13 05:38:10 <TSCHAKeee> will keep working on it...
May 13 05:39:17 <tmzt> Stskeeps: have you been following the uds arm track?
May 13 05:39:21 <Stskeeps> tmzt: no
May 13 05:39:25 <Stskeeps> any interesting news?
May 13 05:39:30 <TSCHAKeee> uds ?
May 13 05:39:35 <tmzt> haven't gotten to listen to it
May 13 05:39:50 <tmzt> they have a custom version of a chromium cross dev tool though
May 13 05:40:14 <tmzt> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-m/track/ubuntu_on_arm/
May 13 05:40:23 <tmzt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/M/ARMDeveloperEnvironment
May 13 05:40:41 <TSCHAKeee> gotcha
May 13 05:41:15 <tmzt> and this, missed it
May 13 05:41:16 <tmzt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/M/ARMGraphicsStackOnX
May 13 05:42:34 <Stskeeps> i'm a bit cynic but full GL on a ARM device?
May 13 05:42:40 <Stskeeps> is there even any devices supporting it?
May 13 05:42:56 <TSCHAKeee> yeah uh..wth?
May 13 05:43:02 <TSCHAKeee> even tegra is just openGL ES
May 13 05:43:06 <tmzt> with an open driver?
May 13 05:43:23 <tmzt> es 2.0 is true gl isn't it?
May 13 05:43:39 <tmzt> just doesn't have the immediate commands (like glBegin)
May 13 05:43:41 <Stskeeps> no, it's a subset of opengl 2.0
May 13 05:43:48 <tmzt> yeah, as far as api
May 13 05:43:55 <tmzt> but is it less capable?
May 13 05:44:04 <Stskeeps> and even with a open driver that's a bit of a pipe dream what they describe
May 13 05:44:11 <TSCHAKeee> mmhmm
May 13 05:44:13 <tmzt> yeah ;)
May 13 05:44:19 <TSCHAKeee> i don't see it happening
May 13 05:44:27 <Stskeeps> tmzt: saw that we've opened up n900 hw adaptation team development?
May 13 05:44:36 <tmzt> but codeaurora.org (quic) has a pretty cool start on an open driver for snapdragon
May 13 05:44:43 <tmzt> no, where is the announcment?
May 13 05:45:00 <Stskeeps> sec
May 13 05:45:08 * TSCHAKeee still angry there isn't a mali200 driver that can work in X.
May 13 05:45:22 <tmzt> did you see the partial recompilation stuff from ubuntu? too bad they didn't have this for mer
May 13 05:45:36 <Stskeeps> we can do partial recompilation in obs with ease
May 13 05:45:37 <Stskeeps> but no, url?
May 13 05:45:40 <Stskeeps> http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-May/002131.html
May 13 05:45:51 <tmzt> hmm, it's under repository forking
May 13 05:45:52 <Stskeeps> (sorry about linewrapping)
May 13 05:45:54 <tmzt> hold on
May 13 05:46:19 <tmzt> I've got a chrome window with all of this stuff open
May 13 05:46:23 <tmzt> just have to go through it
May 13 05:46:58 <tmzt> so we get specs? :)
May 13 05:47:13 <tmzt> maybe for everything but sgx would be nice
May 13 05:48:13 <tmzt> MeeGo Core + Handset UX releases (100% open
May 13 05:48:15 <tmzt> source)
May 13 05:48:24 <tmzt> where is this source and are there any branding restrictions?
May 13 05:48:44 <TSCHAKeee> handset ux hasn't dropped yet
May 13 05:48:49 <Stskeeps> meego core and handset ux (ux will be out later) will be fully open source
May 13 05:48:59 <Stskeeps> but when we say open development, we mean working out in the open.
May 13 05:49:01 <tmzt> core is just linux stuff?
May 13 05:49:10 <Stskeeps> like, irc channels, mailing list and all that stuff.
May 13 05:49:30 <TSCHAKeee> core is just the very base system
May 13 05:49:36 <Stskeeps> and middleware
May 13 05:49:42 <TSCHAKeee> yeah.
May 13 05:49:47 <Stskeeps> tmzt: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900
May 13 05:50:44 <tmzt> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-archive-branching
May 13 05:50:44 <tmzt> here's this
May 13 05:50:44 <tmzt> seems they want to use bzr to manage apt repos
May 13 05:51:21 <Stskeeps> we kinda do that (sanely) with obs :P
May 13 05:52:15 <TSCHAKeee> heheh
May 13 05:53:34 <tmzt> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-tool-chain-selection
May 13 05:53:59 <tmzt> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-ui-and-test-heads
May 13 05:54:34 <tmzt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/M/ARMTestsuitesAndProfilers
May 13 05:54:55 <Stskeeps> seems a bit like bandaid
May 13 05:55:37 <tmzt> seemed they were going to do this on hardware
May 13 05:56:11 <Stskeeps> well, hwcap is usually a good idea
May 13 05:56:32 <Stskeeps> rpm has a nice thing where it can automatically pick up armv6l packages or armv7l even if you're on armv5
May 13 05:56:45 <tmzt> how is that good?
May 13 05:57:05 <tmzt> what I don't get is mplayer can detect cpu features
May 13 05:57:29 <tmzt> but somebody at canonical decided to make the whole repo armv6mmu when only a few packages needed it (optionally)
May 13 05:57:45 <Stskeeps> well, it takes your arm architecture and pulls in the right optimized one when grabbing a dependancy
May 13 05:58:07 <tmzt> oh, you mean if your on the armv5 arch?
May 13 05:58:13 <tmzt> but your cpu supports higher?
May 13 05:58:23 <tmzt> yeah, that would be a good thing for dpkg to have :)
May 13 05:58:39 <Stskeeps> :nod:
May 13 05:58:46 <tmzt> what toolkit is handset ux? Qt 4?
May 13 05:58:55 <tmzt> anything using qtml yet?
May 13 05:59:07 <tmzt> (or whatever it's called)
May 13 05:59:31 <Stskeeps> qt4 at least
May 13 05:59:51 <Stskeeps> you don't have glesv2 libraries with x11 support on some of the devices you try to support btw?
May 13 06:00:08 <tmzt> I hope to get to snapdragon at some point
May 13 06:00:20 <TSCHAKeee> hmm i thought everything was still using clutter at this point, but.. hm
May 13 06:00:24 <tmzt> but out current devices are gles 1.1 and there's no driver for X
May 13 06:00:32 <Stskeeps> :nod:
May 13 06:01:02 <Stskeeps> gles 1.1 might still work in some form but dunno. official baseline is glesv2
May 13 06:01:05 <Stskeeps> which is understandable
May 13 06:01:34 <tmzt> well 2d buffer swapping is possible if we can make X support it
May 13 06:01:37 <TSCHAKeee> is there a glES driver that works in X...besides the omap stuff?
May 13 06:01:58 <tmzt> but if your only going to support gl there's no point, seems the only non-Windows on these devices is going to be android and rhobuntu
May 13 06:02:21 <tmzt> TSCHAKeee: there should be when chrome os devices are released
May 13 06:02:38 <TSCHAKeee> ok
May 13 06:02:41 <tmzt> or other msm/snapdragon smartbooks
May 13 06:02:55 <tmzt> since ubuntu apparently has a kernel tree for snapdragon, just saw that today
May 13 06:02:57 * TSCHAKeee can't wait to see omap4 devices
May 13 06:03:10 <TSCHAKeee> or a tegra based device
May 13 06:05:17 <Termana> tmzt, ping
May 13 06:05:53 <tmzt> I"m here
May 13 06:06:47 <Termana> tmzt, Does the code hosted at CodeAurora make any attempt to make the Snapdragon GLES shared libraries compatible with X?
May 13 06:07:08 <tmzt> kgsl and kms/drm2 support are there
May 13 06:07:20 <tmzt> but I don't know where a non-OEM would get the compatible .so
May 13 06:07:40 <Termana> non-OEM here, looking to do a MeeGo port
May 13 06:07:45 <tmzt> right
May 13 06:08:22 <tmzt> I think there should be enough to do a basic driver (maybe with gallium?) that can do tfp and offscreen pixmaps
May 13 06:08:39 <tmzt> I don't understand what gles is being used for in meego though
May 13 06:08:47 <tmzt> beyond games/applications with specifically need it
May 13 06:08:56 <Termana> I asked about the shipped libraries included with Android (messages to google kernel workers) - they are surface flinger specific
May 13 06:09:01 <Termana> tmzt, Handset UX
May 13 06:09:15 <tmzt> the android stuff is mostly android specific
May 13 06:09:22 <tmzt> and isn't designed for kgsl/drm
May 13 06:09:30 <tmzt> but there's a version for nexus that has partial support
May 13 06:09:42 <tmzt> it's not designed for X though
May 13 06:09:50 <tmzt> not sure what SF has to do with it exactly
May 13 06:10:05 <tmzt> SF just manages the allocation through the kernel
May 13 06:10:12 <tmzt> using pmem
May 13 06:10:21 <Termana> tmzt, I assume the libraries would interact with surface flinger in some way
May 13 06:10:23 <tmzt> the new kernel drivers replace that with drm
May 13 06:10:41 <tmzt> I think they just use the same kernel apis as SF/pixelflinger
May 13 06:11:05 <tmzt> what deivce are you working with?
May 13 06:11:23 <Termana> Nexus One - I'm not working with it yet - I don't have one. Looking to maybe do a port
May 13 06:11:42 <tmzt> I would start with CA and the 2d drivers then
May 13 06:11:51 <tmzt> and add functionality we really need
May 13 06:11:59 <tmzt> it would help to undestand how GL is used
May 13 06:12:30 <Termana> tmzt, your looking to do the same thing? or...?
May 13 06:13:37 <tmzt> more X than meego specifically
May 13 06:13:49 <tmzt> and I'm waiting on a suitable device with qwerty keyboard
May 13 06:15:45 <Termana> tmzt, X itself works fine. No specific acceleration etc. though - Have you seen the native Debian install for N1?
May 13 06:16:08 <tmzt> no
May 13 06:16:38 <Termana> tmzt, video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ939llCqVc
May 13 06:16:47 <Termana> tmzt, instructions: http://www.irregular-expression.com/?p=30
May 13 06:19:40 <Termana> Also theres an extra problem
May 13 06:19:52 <Termana> If I buy a Nexus One - I will be run down by a bus :)
May 13 06:21:28 <tmzt> thanks, that's what I've been looking for
May 13 06:23:14 <tmzt> jairun?
May 13 06:24:43 <Termana> tmzt, hmm?
May 13 06:24:56 <tmzt> the debian thing
May 13 06:25:12 <tmzt> it's not complete though, but the fastboot could be helpful
May 13 06:25:18 <tmzt> you still need a computer to start it though
May 13 06:25:33 <tmzt> if kexec works on scorpion it might be possible to get around that
May 13 06:26:08 <Termana> tmzt, or just modify boot.img with the appropriate kernel and parameters
May 13 06:26:42 <tmzt> I wasn't able to get the kernel to boot into Debian until I turned
May 13 06:26:44 <tmzt> 	  off initramfs support
May 13 06:26:57 <tmzt> (note. this was before I discovered the 'noinitrd' kernel kernel cmdline option
May 13 06:28:58 <Termana> Ah righto
May 13 06:30:00 <tmzt> I started working getting touchscreen to work
May 13 06:30:23 <tmzt> I think the input cleanup in X might help, esp the matrix patches on the mailing list
May 13 06:31:21 <tmzt> they don't really support acceleration yet or non-linear scaling
May 13 06:32:59 <tmzt> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-dpkg-wishlist
May 13 06:34:36 <tmzt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/ARMSoftbootLoader
May 13 06:34:45 <tmzt> this is something like Nokia's initrd
May 13 06:44:08 <tmzt> Based on Clutter, netbook-launcher could not run on the ARM devices Ubuntu was targeting due to a lack of 3D acceleration. Enter netbook-launcher-efl, a 2D version of the x86 netbook interface written using EFL packages.
May 13 06:44:16 <tmzt> interesting, didn't know about this one
May 13 06:44:33 <tmzt> http://www.linuxuk.org/2010/05/ubuntu-lucid-lynx-on-arm/
May 13 08:49:12 <th0br0> g'day
May 13 08:49:16 <Stskeeps> morning th0br0
May 13 08:49:27 <th0br0> how was yesterday's meeting?
May 13 08:49:42 <Stskeeps> there was none, it is switched to every other week now
May 13 08:49:45 * Stskeeps is learning the hard way that Requires: and such doesn't go in %description
May 13 08:50:07 <th0br0> oh k.
May 13 08:50:17 <th0br0> then I'm glad not to have missed anything .D
May 13 08:58:54 <Stskeeps> morning slaine - good night out?
May 13 10:06:43 <lbt> Stskeeps: ml... "
May 13 10:06:44 <lbt> I'm not sure “Meego on n900” is intended to be a “supportable end user
May 13 10:06:46 <lbt> configuration”. As far as I understood it, the target is developers.
May 13 10:07:30 <Stskeeps> graham's words
May 13 10:08:06 <Stskeeps> and right now we use microsd out of ease
May 13 10:11:24 <lcuk> lbt, which mail is this one on
May 13 10:12:37 * CosmoHill pets Stskeeps and lcuk 
May 13 10:12:42 <slaine> Stskeeps: Yes, I'd a good night out thanks
May 13 10:13:15 * slaine is a little sluggish today
May 13 10:14:12 <lbt> Yves' words... I'd just be happy to hear them refuted... I don't want Arjan and Greg of the opinion that a non-btrfs solution on the n900 is a 2nd hand member of MeeGo
May 13 10:14:41 <lbt> and if they feel that the n900 effort is "just a hack" then there'll be a lot of unhappy bunnies around
May 13 10:15:00 <lbt> Meego-dev lcuk
May 13 10:15:13 <lcuk> yeah mail title i have lots of mail this morning
May 13 10:15:16 <lcuk> or is it an old one
May 13 10:15:20 <lbt> the one where Arjan's been ignoring the elephant in the corner
May 13 10:15:28 <lbt> btrfs as default fs
May 13 10:15:29 <gaveen> Was there a TSG meeting yesterday? Can't find the irc logs/summary
May 13 10:15:33 <Stskeeps> gaveen: no
May 13 10:15:33 <lbt> no gaveen
May 13 10:16:03 <gaveen> lbt, Stskeeps thanks
May 13 10:16:27 <Stskeeps> lbt: i don't see arjan or greg making that impression. there was a bit of NAND discussion, where ubifs is the best - they will have exact same issues on x86 handsets
May 13 10:16:34 <lbt> ah, I just saw graham's reply... that's what I think we need to be clear on
May 13 10:16:46 <Stskeeps> so it is more about btrfs on MMC, not so much about if n900 can handle it
May 13 10:17:11 <lbt> And note, if the handheld devices do not use btrfs, some of the features
May 13 10:17:13 <lbt> being provided here (snapshot rollback, etc.) will just not work, which
May 13 10:17:15 <lbt> might not be good.
May 13 10:17:34 <Stskeeps> let us just get to actually trying it out in practice first :)
May 13 10:17:36 <lbt> btrfs works wonderfully on MeeGo (i.e. netbooks.)
May 13 10:17:49 <lbt> MeeGo = netbooks
May 13 10:17:53 <lbt> uh huh
May 13 10:18:02 <Stskeeps> i think you're reading too much into it
May 13 10:18:23 <lbt> which is why I'm looking for confirmation :)
May 13 10:18:28 <Stskeeps> confirmation of ..?
May 13 10:18:35 <lbt> MeeGo != netbooks
May 13 10:18:48 <lbt> and meego on n900 isn't "just for hacking"
May 13 10:19:02 <lbt> clearly it's not nokia supported
May 13 10:19:11 <Stskeeps> did you see the size of our team? :P
May 13 10:19:13 <lbt> but it should be capable of showcasing anything MeeGo
May 13 10:19:18 <thiago_home> yeah
May 13 10:19:25 <Stskeeps> obviously
May 13 10:19:27 <lbt> I'm not trying to make a big deal of it
May 13 10:20:28 <Stskeeps> it is a hardware adaptation project, supposed to be able to host the handset vertical
May 13 10:20:49 <lbt> sec phone
May 13 10:22:32 <pupnik> maemo on n8!
May 13 10:22:42 <pupnik> (just felt like saying that)
May 13 10:22:42 <Stskeeps> nothing more, nothing less
May 13 10:22:43 <Stskeeps> :P
May 13 10:22:53 <slaine> Does GregKH have full access to MeeGo ?
May 13 10:23:53 <slaine> It's one thing being told by Intel and Nokia that they're not ready to release it, it's another thing to allow other companies access behind the scene to help development
May 13 10:24:55 <Stskeeps> slaine: personally i have no idea - they did a lot in moblin times didn't they?
May 13 10:25:00 <Corsac> lbt: Yves-Alexis, not just Yves :)
May 13 10:25:22 <lbt> :P
May 13 10:25:28 <slaine> Stskeeps: again, it was never disclosed publicly, it appeared that way, when I asked about such things happening, it was denied
May 13 10:26:11 <lbt> on/off hold sorting out flights... BA strike
May 13 10:26:20 <Stskeeps> again?
May 13 10:26:55 <lbt> 4 5 day strikes iirc
May 13 10:27:15 <lbt> ie a month barring weekends
May 13 10:27:16 <Corsac> not to mention eykjafull
May 13 10:28:01 <thiago_home> eyjafjallajökull
May 13 10:28:22 <lbt> anyhow... I just feel that there are some subtle hints (and I agree I may be reading too much into it) that people won't mind if the n900 isn't quite a 1st class meego citizen
May 13 10:28:29 <thiago_home> "island-mountain-glacier"
May 13 10:28:43 <lbt> so, the best way to deal with it is to ask for some polite discussion
May 13 10:28:51 <lbt> that's all Stskeeps :)
May 13 10:28:54 <Corsac> from what I understand, n900 will be a supported device for meego, but meego won't be a supported OS for n900
May 13 10:29:02 <Corsac> hmhm no
May 13 10:29:12 <Corsac> just not a default installation, at least
May 13 10:29:13 <lbt> Corsac: correct... not supported by nokia
May 13 10:29:14 <slaine> Greg's email from this morning makes it clear that there is a behind the scenes relationship with novel and meego
May 13 10:29:40 <lbt> slaine: of course... and why not
May 13 10:29:44 <Corsac> the preferred OS is Fremantle, and maybe Harmattan at one point, though we don't know that
May 13 10:29:59 <slaine> lbt, This golden circle/old boys club behavior REALLY makes my blood boil.
May 13 10:30:21 <lbt> meh, not boil, but that's life....
May 13 10:30:36 <lbt> you meet people, you know them...
May 13 10:30:37 <slaine> particularly for a purportedly open development. 
May 13 10:30:48 <Corsac> there's no open development
May 13 10:30:54 <Corsac> there /will/ be, at one point
May 13 10:31:00 <lbt> Corsac: there is... meego-arm
May 13 10:31:25 <th0br0> oh, life! :)
May 13 10:31:52 <th0br0> hello lbt
May 13 10:32:11 <lbt> right... back l8r   I just wanted to raise an area of potential confusion about the goals of "meego on n900" (which I didn't feel I knew well enough to answer)
May 13 10:32:12 <lbt> hi th0br0
May 13 10:32:19 <lbt> just off now... l8r
May 13 10:32:19 <th0br0> how are things coming along?
May 13 10:32:29 <Corsac> even with that, I was told yesterday by Aard that doing stuff meego/touchbook related was pointless since stuff happened being curtains
May 13 10:32:31 <th0br0> ok :) bye.
May 13 10:32:35 <Corsac> and we should just wait
May 13 10:32:39 <Stskeeps> Aard?
May 13 10:34:03 <Corsac> Bernd Wachter
May 13 10:34:44 <Corsac> I don't know who he is, and what kind of meego access he has (he told me he was beeing paid to work on meego, but spent free time on meego/touchbook stuff)
May 13 10:35:45 <Stskeeps> well, meego n900 work is done openly now, so that's a staart.
May 13 10:36:20 <pupnik> why wait?  isn't doing stuff more fun?
May 13 10:36:59 <Stskeeps> Corsac: i tend to disagree with his view then
May 13 10:37:26 <pupnik> -rw-r--r--  1 maemo maemo 770 Dec 10  2007 Makefile  <3 <3 <3
May 13 10:37:56 <Corsac> Stskeeps: yeah, and having a bootable meego was nice :)
May 13 10:38:01 <smoku> Stskeeps, where could I get current meego for n900?
May 13 10:38:25 <Stskeeps> smoku: you'd have to poke the release team for that (whoever they are)
May 13 10:38:40 * Stskeeps goes back to writing reply to the trainwreck thread
May 13 10:39:00 <smoku> so it isn't really open then
May 13 10:39:55 <Stskeeps> smoku: there's a number of issues to that. one is that the OBS build results aren't updated bi-weekly for arm as they should.
May 13 10:40:05 <Stskeeps> (or rather, a live repo being available)
May 13 10:40:34 <Corsac> yeah, Aard told me that MIC was broken wrt. public repositories
May 13 10:40:58 <Corsac> (I used the n900 image to boot the TB but the preferred way would be to create a dedicated image with a .ks)
May 13 10:42:00 <Stskeeps> we're doing our part to aid the situation, https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1986
May 13 10:43:43 <Corsac> “it'd help open development a lot”
May 13 10:43:47 * Corsac giggles
May 13 10:44:43 <th0br0> mh... Stskeeps... could it be that like 80% of the ppl active in here are either employed by nokia or otherwise related and have got access to internal content?
May 13 10:45:20 <Stskeeps> th0br0: not sure what you're asking
May 13 10:45:33 <smoku> Stskeeps, i'm fine with nokia working on their software behind closed doors - it's their project. what annoys me is they "advocate" (for a "lack" of better word) it as an open process
May 13 10:45:44 <th0br0> well, just how many of the active ppl in here are really from the community, non-nokia/intel side ;)
May 13 10:45:49 <lcuk> Stskeeps, why would it not be desirable to pass around "live" content?  isnt the stuff in there meant to be part of the open project
May 13 10:46:46 <smoku> you may have a ford automobile in every color, as long it is black...
May 13 10:47:26 <Stskeeps> smoku: in this case, it's not our teams will the way things are :/
May 13 10:48:15 <smoku> Stskeeps, I'm not blaming anyone and big kudos to you. Just expressing an opinion...
May 13 10:49:04 <lcuk> if companies are wanting to test their components integrated into an image surely the expectation has to be that it will be an open test
May 13 10:49:08 <Stskeeps> smoku: :nod: and i agree
May 13 10:49:19 <Stskeeps> lcuk: yes, preaching to the choir
May 13 10:50:01 <lcuk> im just trying to walk through it, i know fremantle wise that expectation isnt there
May 13 11:02:35 <Stskeeps> lbt: that post along those lines?
May 13 11:31:36 * lcuk discards the lengthy -dev mail about n900 and wanders off again
May 13 11:48:08 <lbt> Stskeeps: I think that helps, yes. :)
May 13 11:48:50 <Stskeeps> then again, who listens to me anymore..
May 13 11:48:50 <Stskeeps> :P
May 13 11:51:01 <w00t_> good point
May 13 11:51:02 <w00t_> ;)
May 13 12:00:35 <lbt> who said that?
May 13 12:30:15 <lcuk> Stskeeps, lbt the extra mile to fully certifying n900 will be invaluable otherwise how are other companies meant to know how much work it will take them..
May 13 12:31:17 <lcuk> and better to do it with a device we know and understand than trying to help them debug X hardware which will not be infont of so many people
May 13 12:31:18 <Stskeeps> i hope you don't expect us to go through the varouis certifications ;)
May 13 12:35:19 <lcuk> Stskeeps, which part needs certifying?
May 13 12:51:30 <AstralStorm> lcuk: hello
May 13 12:51:43 <AstralStorm> is Meego workable now on n810?
May 13 12:51:47 <lcuk> hiya AstralStorm
May 13 12:51:52 <lcuk> dunno ask Stskeeps
May 13 12:52:04 <AstralStorm> Stskeeps: prod, is Meego workable on n810?
May 13 12:52:14 <AstralStorm> becaue old Diablo is making me mad
May 13 12:52:25 <Stskeeps> not ready yet
May 13 12:52:26 <AstralStorm> watchdog-induced crashes
May 13 12:52:30 <AstralStorm> what about Mer?
May 13 12:52:40 <AstralStorm> finally fixed the general slowness and added missing features?
May 13 12:52:55 <Termana> AstralStorm, I have some exciting news
May 13 12:53:07 <AstralStorm> mmm, love to hear. what are they?
May 13 12:53:22 <Termana> Stskeeps has overclocked the OMAP2 processor to 1 Ghz - and it GIGA HERTZ
May 13 12:53:23 <AstralStorm> I bet a kernel update is necessary for any of those to work
May 13 12:53:32 <AstralStorm> and it eats more battery? ;p
May 13 12:54:05 <Vali>  hi Stskeeps
May 13 12:55:33 <AstralStorm> Stskeeps: is Mer now ready(ier)?
May 13 12:55:41 <Stskeeps> no
May 13 12:55:43 <Stskeeps> mer's dead
May 13 12:55:50 <AstralStorm> damn
May 13 12:55:57 <AstralStorm> so I'm left with no usable distro on n810
May 13 12:56:05 <Stskeeps> reinstall diablo?
May 13 12:56:11 <AstralStorm> and that will help how?
May 13 12:56:17 <AstralStorm> except axing all my setting that is
May 13 12:56:49 <AstralStorm> I'll have to homebrew something
May 13 12:56:53 <AstralStorm> or maybe run debian?
May 13 12:56:55 <Termana> AstralStorm, It might fix your watchdog problem
May 13 12:57:04 <AstralStorm> yeah it will workaround it
May 13 12:57:13 <AstralStorm> because it times out due to high load times
May 13 12:57:21 <AstralStorm> due to fragmentation on /
May 13 12:57:33 <Termana> or, you can turn the watchdogs off - at your own risk
May 13 12:57:48 <AstralStorm> it'd be best if I could make the watchdog not crash due to IO
May 13 12:58:16 <AstralStorm> I bet it's starved due to kernel being antique 2.6.16
May 13 12:58:24 <Stskeeps> what, .16?
May 13 12:58:26 <Stskeeps> it's .21 on diablo
May 13 12:58:31 <AstralStorm> oh yes, 2.6.21
May 13 12:58:33 <AstralStorm> still antique
May 13 12:58:43 <Stskeeps> and we have 2.6.33 runnin
May 13 12:58:43 <Stskeeps> g
May 13 12:58:51 <AstralStorm> in Mer?
May 13 12:58:52 <Vali> Stskeeps: i am still in confuse about building system about MeeGo ..is there is any possible way to arrange the entire build environment in PC (like android..)
May 13 12:58:56 <AstralStorm> gimme
May 13 12:58:57 <Termana> AstralStorm, In Diablo
May 13 12:59:01 <AstralStorm> gimme!
May 13 12:59:06 <AstralStorm> that might well fix most of the problems
May 13 12:59:13 <AstralStorm> GPS, wifi, bluetooth?
May 13 12:59:25 <Stskeeps> Vali: no, you don't rebuild entire meego normally
May 13 13:00:07 <AstralStorm> dammit, can't even boot Maemo now
May 13 13:00:08 <Termana> AstralStorm, I wouldn't recommend it entirely though.
May 13 13:00:11 <AstralStorm> why?
May 13 13:00:15 <AstralStorm> crashes?
May 13 13:00:25 <AstralStorm> missing features?
May 13 13:00:40 <Termana> no, bad power management, at least with Diablo
May 13 13:00:44 <AstralStorm> hmm.
May 13 13:00:53 <AstralStorm> why would that be? dsp bridge?
May 13 13:01:15 <AstralStorm> missing video power saving?
May 13 13:01:50 <Termana> How about "i don't know, and I haven't been arsed to find out"?
May 13 13:02:03 <AstralStorm> dammit, one time I absolutely need the device to work it enters a watchdog reboot loop
May 13 13:02:05 <AstralStorm> gah
May 13 13:04:08 <Vali> if i want remove some of packages from MeeGo for any simple use case how can i get that type img with out rebuilding it..?
May 13 13:04:42 <Stskeeps> Vali: removing it from package list of things to put in image :)
May 13 13:06:25 <Vali> you mean at the time image creation..?
May 13 13:06:29 <Stskeeps> yes
May 13 13:09:14 <slaine> Vali: thats what the kickstart files are for with the image-creator programs
May 13 13:09:15 <Vali> ok that,s good and i have another doubt ..if i want add extra packages related to hardware specific
May 13 13:09:23 <slaine> Same thing
May 13 13:09:48 <slaine> setup a repo, point your kickstart to that repo too, add the packages you want to the kickstart file
May 13 13:10:00 <slaine> then make your image
May 13 13:13:30 <Vali> Now I Understand..MeeGo img is group all the Binary rpm s  present in that repo path is this right..?
May 13 13:13:54 <Stskeeps> a meego img is created from a list of packages from a repo, doesn't have to be all of them
May 13 13:23:02 <Vali> suppose if  i was able to build the all those rpm in present in repo In my PC i can use my rpm to build the image(acctually my plan is to use the LTIB or like that type of tools to build the Entire packages)
May 13 13:23:26 <Vali> any suggestions..?
May 13 13:24:53 <slaine> Vali: I suggest you learn about kickstart files and the image-creator
May 13 13:25:08 <slaine> you don't seem to be following it properly
May 13 13:25:23 <slaine> rebuilding rpms != rebuilding a meego image
May 13 13:26:15 <slaine> A meego image is a instance of a filesystem with all the rpms installed, that instance can either be in a raw disk image or a compressed squashfs that gets loaded from a usb flash drive
May 13 13:26:43 <slaine> the tools, image-creator, kickstart files etc. allow you to create that instance
May 13 13:31:47 <Vali> hi slaine  suppose if want to generate the image for like another core of ARMv3 instead of v7 ( by default Meggo is providing for ARMV7 and x86) i have to rebuild it with my own tool chain right.
May 13 13:32:06 * CosmoHill grumbles at his stupid uni work
May 13 13:32:17 <Vali> at that time how i can do it..
May 13 13:32:32 <Stskeeps> armv3 might be a bit too low for meego :)
May 13 13:32:50 <slaine> Yes, for an instance like that, i.e. where the provided rpms don't support your arch, then you have to rebuild all the rpms for that arch and then use the kickstarts etc. to make an image from those rpms
May 13 13:33:08 <smoku> Stskeeps, how much power you need to run xterm? :>
May 13 13:34:00 <slaine> Vali: meego's not at the place right now to support us building for different archs
May 13 13:34:14 <Vali> Stskeeps : is there is any minimum hardware requirements for MeeGo..?
May 13 13:34:42 <Stskeeps> i think armv5 is the sanest
May 13 13:34:58 <slaine> And atom for x86
May 13 13:35:43 <Vali> slanie : my intention is create build system for MeeGo to build it to the Different architectures
May 13 13:36:36 <slaine> That's what the OBS is supposed to do for us
May 13 13:37:39 <Vali> Stskeeps: what is the minimum RAM requirement for MeeGo to run smoothly
May 13 13:38:11 <slaine> N900 hardware is the current arm target platform, so whatever that has
May 13 13:38:24 <slaine> that all depends on what you're wanting to do though
May 13 13:38:41 <slaine> are you going to use a full meego handheld/netbook stack
May 13 13:38:46 <Vali> for simple net book
May 13 13:38:47 <Vali> ?
May 13 13:39:01 <slaine> or are you going to use meego core to host you're own application stack
May 13 13:39:12 <Vali> yes.
May 13 13:39:40 <Vali> not only MeeGo core entire NetBook OS
May 13 13:39:48 <slaine> Well, the min x86 netbook specs from memory where, Intel Atom N270, Intel 945 graphics and 1Gb RAM
May 13 13:42:41 * CosmoHill headbangs the desk
May 13 13:44:35 <Vali> Thanks Stskeeps and slaine For great information .
May 13 13:44:39 <Vali> can u please  provide any link to info related to OBS and how can i use it?
May 13 13:44:44 <Stskeeps> build.opensuse.org
May 13 13:44:48 <Stskeeps> make an account, play around
May 13 13:45:04 <slaine> The meego community one is "coming soon"
May 13 13:45:11 * slaine eyes lbt
May 13 13:45:24 * lbt eyes slaine
May 13 13:45:41 <Vali> thanks Stskeeps
May 13 13:45:42 <Vali> :bye
May 13 13:45:50 <lbt> Vali: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Buildhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build
May 13 13:46:01 <lbt> Vali: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build even
May 13 13:46:29 * lbt has been too django'ed to obs
May 13 13:46:51 <CosmoHill> lbt: thanks for recommending firebug
May 13 13:47:09 <lbt> :) it's pretty amazing isn't it
May 13 13:47:18 <th0br0> wb lbt
May 13 13:47:21 <slaine> lbt, you know when you've been django'd
May 13 13:47:29 <lbt> heh, you do
May 13 13:47:54 <Vali> thanks for info i will go through this once and i will come again if i got any doubts related to this :bye
May 13 13:47:55 * lbt built a model in mysql workbench (which is pretty cool nowadays)
May 13 13:49:06 <th0br0> btw, lbt, Babylon 5 is just plain awesum :)
May 13 13:49:17 <lbt> *nod*
May 13 13:49:51 <th0br0> I'm just at the middle of the third season. Luckily enough, a friend of mine had the disks ;D
May 13 13:50:27 <lbt> they bear repeat watching too
May 13 13:51:01 <th0br0> indeed they do.
May 13 13:51:11 <GAN900> When did we s/Summit/Conference/?
May 13 13:51:18 <GAN900> It sounds so corporate and dry.
May 13 13:51:31 <slaine> th0br0: yay, another convert
May 13 13:51:34 <th0br0> :D
May 13 13:51:51 <th0br0> GAN900: iirc 13 till 15 th november...
May 13 13:51:53 * lbt looks around for any signs of corporate influence ... nah, couldn't be...
May 13 13:51:55 <th0br0> horrible date imho ^^
May 13 13:52:11 <th0br0> uh, no, 15-17 iirc
May 13 13:52:39 <th0br0> at least based upon that one forum post by qgil
May 13 13:52:55 <slaine> everything seems to be happening in the forum now
May 13 13:52:58 * slaine hates forums
May 13 13:53:06 * lbt too
May 13 13:53:24 <lbt> but, if we keep quiet nothing will change
May 13 13:53:37 <CosmoHill> grr
May 13 13:53:38 <Stskeeps> i like forums better after i figured out i could subscribe to thngs
May 13 13:53:44 <CosmoHill> this assignment work  is bullshit
May 13 13:53:52 <th0br0> I prefer IRC to both, mailing lists and forums. IMHO forums are easier to use and more structured than mailing lists though
May 13 13:53:54 <lbt> I'm pissed that one reason I supported Reggie and the use of closed sw was to use the tmo mail integration
May 13 13:54:10 <th0br0> tmo? tmobile?
May 13 13:54:19 <lbt> talk.maemo.org
May 13 13:54:21 <CosmoHill> my lecturer wants me to find five CSS and table websites and compare them
May 13 13:54:26 <th0br0> k
May 13 13:54:27 <th0br0> ;)
May 13 13:54:50 * lbt hates forums with an irrational passion....
May 13 13:54:57 <lbt> just so clunky
May 13 13:55:46 <lbt> for people who don't grok 'subfolders'
May 13 13:55:57 <CosmoHill> sheepbat: you like a welsh fruit bat?
May 13 13:56:00 <lbt> or tags or any other number of ways of managing mail
May 13 13:56:15 <CosmoHill> only you go for sheep instead of fruit
May 13 13:56:30 <sheepbat> ..no
May 13 13:56:32 <th0br0> thunderbird is horrible once you've got 5 mail accounts + 60 folders (total) though
May 13 13:56:32 <lbt> CosmoHill: shh, canadian
May 13 13:56:42 <lbt> th0br0: !
May 13 13:57:00 <th0br0> ?
May 13 13:57:00 * lbt looks at his thunderbird and stops counting after...200+
May 13 13:57:02 <CosmoHill> th0br0: how many folders marked "do not open"?
May 13 13:57:08 <th0br0> none actually.
May 13 13:57:16 <th0br0> i guess i could do that.
May 13 13:57:22 * CosmoHill looks at his junk folder
May 13 13:57:22 <lbt> some with 00,000s messages in them
May 13 13:57:26 <lbt> ie lkml
May 13 13:57:27 <th0br0> yeah :)
May 13 13:57:30 <CosmoHill> it says I have 8500+ junk mail
May 13 13:57:38 * lbt loves cyrus imap
May 13 13:57:43 <th0br0> most of my junk mail gets dropped before it reaches me.
May 13 13:57:58 <CosmoHill> my mail server got dropped recently :/
May 13 13:57:59 <th0br0> cyrus is cool
May 13 13:58:03 <th0br0> it just doesn't support SIEVE which sucks
May 13 13:58:09 <CosmoHill> it's just a bug in my mail client
May 13 13:58:10 <lbt> although it's a tad big in memory
May 13 13:58:10 <th0br0> oh no nvm
May 13 13:58:14 <th0br0> i'm using courier, i suck.
May 13 13:58:17 <CosmoHill> it deletes all the junk mail when I exit the program
May 13 13:58:17 <lbt> th0br0: does too
May 13 13:58:24 <th0br0> courier doesn' tho
May 13 13:58:24 <CosmoHill> but doesn't reset the counter until i click on it
May 13 13:58:31 <lbt> I run seive on cyrus
May 13 13:58:36 <th0br0> Yep, i know... :)
May 13 13:58:41 <th0br0> what do you use as mta?
May 13 13:58:44 <lbt> oh, gotcha
May 13 13:59:10 <lbt> fetchmail -> spampd -(lmtp)->cyrus
May 13 13:59:20 <th0br0> haha, ok.
May 13 13:59:27 <th0br0> so you use cyrus locally
May 13 13:59:33 <lbt> how else?
May 13 13:59:35 <lbt> :)
May 13 13:59:36 <GAN900> lbt, well, make sure the mail integration gets pushed for the next sprint.
May 13 13:59:40 <th0br0> ;)
May 13 13:59:51 <lbt> GAN900: /me is a lone voice
May 13 13:59:57 <lbt> BUT LOUD
May 13 14:00:01 <lbt> sometimes :)
May 13 14:00:12 <lbt> hey, you could all help
May 13 14:00:39 <th0br0> given that i've got mutliple computers i tend to prefer having my emails decentralized. still, once i've found the money to upgrade my dedi box to an i7, i'll properly set up vms and have the data encrypted ... *once*
May 13 14:00:50 <lbt> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52259
May 13 14:01:20 <lbt> go here (and thank me!!)  and then click through to the email integration trial
May 13 14:01:42 <lbt> th0br0: I have many PCs too - so I wanted to have email central on IMAP
May 13 14:02:06 <lbt> then I can read email from anywhere
May 13 14:02:37 <th0br0> true
May 13 14:03:31 <lbt> I even have a webmail server too (squirrelmail iirc)
May 13 14:04:52 <GAN900> lbt, is there a wiki page yet?
May 13 14:05:32 <lbt> well gan, if you followed my link and thanked me.... ;)
May 13 14:05:34 <pupnik> nice lbt
May 13 14:06:27 <lbt> well, use email users have our uses even if no-one talks to us
May 13 14:07:34 <lbt> GAN900: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service and huge detail here : http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Installation and here: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Fremantle_Setup
May 13 14:08:01 <lbt> GAN900: also QA process migration thoughts : http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Application_QA_Process
May 13 14:11:09 <slaine> I've imap too, it's great
May 13 14:11:16 <slaine> same email on all my devices
May 13 14:13:12 <CosmoHill> http://www.lingscars.com/ <<< horrible horrible website
May 13 14:13:20 <CosmoHill> made my laptop overheat
May 13 14:14:05 <th0br0> lol
May 13 14:14:39 <th0br0> uh, how long will maemo still exist besides meego?
May 13 14:15:08 <slaine> One of the lads recommended this to me last night in the pub. It looks like all kids of awesome, http://www.c64upgra.de/c-one/
May 13 14:16:27 <th0br0> quite a lot to pay tho
May 13 14:17:03 <GAN900> lbt, er, for email integration.
May 13 14:19:32 <lbt> GAN900: mmm, those linkies won't help much then ;)
May 13 14:19:49 <lbt> nah, not really... but I'll help you get it setup if you ever want
May 13 14:20:15 <lbt> I've been using it since ~2002 so...
May 13 14:21:38 <lcuk> slaine, maemo has a fully supported live mobile "UX" on devices today with people using it and a healthy community ecosystem - it will be around for a long time yet
May 13 14:23:34 <lcuk> sorry, not slaine th0br0
May 13 14:23:49 <th0br0> sure i get the point
May 13 14:24:15 <th0br0> it just gets ... confusing with the various communities, mailing lists, forums etc
May 13 14:25:01 <lcuk> indeed it does
May 13 14:25:38 <slaine> moblin was never really that active, community wise. It's been totally dead since meego was announced
May 13 14:26:06 <slaine> there was a flurry of IVI / IEGD related discussions, but nothing much else
May 13 14:35:53 <pupnik> yeah there was a maemo community
May 13 14:38:46 <th0br0> there still is
May 13 14:42:54 <CosmoHill> who loves table based websites? http://www.linuxtoday.com/
May 13 14:43:12 <thiago_home> 1995 version of me does
May 13 14:43:30 <CosmoHill> I count 6 and that's without scrolling down
May 13 14:44:29 <Zeikko> They're pain to administer and modify. :S
May 13 14:46:13 <CosmoHill> tables shouldn't be used for anything but tables
May 13 14:46:25 <CosmoHill> I don't know why I need to find 5 examples to prove this
May 13 14:47:50 <smoku> slaine, c-one is just pure evil!! there goes my savings...
May 13 14:48:14 <slaine> smoku: pure evil in a ZOMG I must have one
May 13 14:48:46 <pupnik> c-one is what smoku
May 13 14:49:00 <GAN900> lbt, get a wiki page together and that'll help you push the proposal.
May 13 14:49:13 <slaine> pupnik: I posted a link earlier
May 13 14:49:14 <slaine> http://www.c64upgra.de/c-one/
May 13 14:49:34 <GAN900> th0br0, for as long as people still use it?
May 13 14:49:39 <th0br0> true
May 13 14:50:09 * CosmoHill looks at the site
May 13 14:50:17 <CosmoHill> where's the body tag...
May 13 14:52:53 <pupnik> http://www.wolfire.com/humble   Humble Indie Bundle received over 1 million USD in donations, is opening-up sources to a bunch of cool games.  Porters, fire up your SDKs!
May 13 14:52:55 * CosmoHill needs one more website to finish this bullshit pt1
May 13 15:03:28 <alons> hola
May 13 15:04:14 <th0br0> bueas
May 13 15:04:17 <th0br0> +n
May 13 15:04:23 <th0br0> my typing fails this afternoon
May 13 15:05:38 * CosmoHill has a new found hatred of web design
May 13 15:14:38 <GAN900> pupnik, Wolf Fire is such a great group.
May 13 15:20:11 <pupnik> and they did it!  They got a million+!
May 13 15:21:57 <th0br0> who i?
May 13 15:22:05 <th0br0> oh nvm i recall about the action
May 13 15:22:44 <alons> No hay ningun hispanohablante
May 13 15:22:47 <alons> ??
May 13 15:28:49 <th0br0> parlo espanol ... un poco...
May 13 15:29:18 <Nadley> alons: me hablo un poquito espanol porque ?
May 13 15:29:31 <zaheerm> alons: creo que este canal es solo ingles
May 13 15:29:46 <th0br0> ;)
May 13 15:30:31 <smhar> what is license of the meego source code?
May 13 15:30:53 <zaheerm> smhar, many licenses, because there are many components
May 13 15:31:18 <smhar> zaheerm, any website to list?
May 13 15:31:34 <zaheerm> smhar, the kernel is GPL for example, gstreamer is LGPL and all the bits meego uses all have their own choice of licences
May 13 15:31:57 <zaheerm> smhar, meego is more a distribution of free software than a single project with one monolithic codebase
May 13 15:32:46 <th0br0> GAN900: it's awesome that they're planning to release the source tho
May 13 15:32:46 <smhar> zaheerm, what about the bits developed by nokia/intel: the meego team? like the calender, the Desktop etc?
May 13 15:33:17 <zaheerm> smhar, none of the UX parts are released yet
May 13 15:33:44 <smhar> zaheerm, what is UX?
May 13 15:33:58 <zaheerm> uxer experience
May 13 15:34:16 <zaheerm> meego 1.0 with netbook ux will be released first in may sometime
May 13 15:34:33 <zaheerm> the others including handset ux following later
May 13 15:34:35 <smhar> zaheerm, that is the same for N900?
May 13 15:34:54 <zaheerm> smhar, what is the same for n900?
May 13 15:35:13 <smhar> the UX, the once released in May?
May 13 15:35:46 <zaheerm> the one released in may will be for netbooks, the handset one will come out shortly after (which may also be in may but not necessarily)
May 13 15:36:38 <smhar> zaheerm, so they decided the release date, almost, but still did not decide on the licensing?
May 13 15:37:17 <zaheerm> smhar, i have no clue what license the UX parts will have but they will have a free software license i guess
May 13 15:37:37 <zaheerm> smhar, nokia and intel may be able to answer, you could ask on the meego-dev mailing list
May 13 15:40:20 <alons> disculpen
May 13 15:40:47 <alons> hola th0br0 y nadley
May 13 15:41:08 <alons> lo que pasa es que me interesa participar en la comunidad
May 13 15:41:13 <alons> y estar informado
May 13 15:41:26 <Nadley> y no hables ingles ?
May 13 15:41:44 <alons> no
May 13 15:41:49 <alons> mal por mi
May 13 15:42:04 <alons> voy a ver si retomo esos estudios
May 13 15:42:14 <th0br0> no creo que es posible en el momiento sin saber hablar ingles
May 13 15:42:23 <Nadley> porque por el momento to la informacion es en ingles
May 13 15:42:30 <Nadley> *toda
May 13 15:42:46 <alons> si eso veo
May 13 15:44:27 <alons> muchas gracias por las respuestas
May 13 15:44:45 <Nadley> de nada
May 13 15:47:54 <TSCHAKeee> holy mother
May 13 15:48:00 <TSCHAKeee> 5,122 posts
May 13 16:00:30 <pupnik> N900:  apt-cache pkgnames | sort -u | wc -l  7715 packages   My debian box: 38484  Nice job #maemo community and Nokia
May 13 16:57:40 <CosmoHill> damnit
May 13 17:16:13 <pupnik> meego on N8! For fun and ... fun!
May 13 17:16:30 <leinir> for fun and making the N8 useful? ;)
May 13 17:17:08 <pupnik> i wouldn't knock Symbian 3 just yet
May 13 17:17:40 <leinir> it's still Symbian, though - MeeGo is, well... a proper Linux :)
May 13 17:19:20 <twoboxen> will meego be able to resolve local hostnames?  maemo still can't
May 13 17:20:15 <thiago_home> local to the device?
May 13 17:20:17 <pupnik> umm, edit /etc/hosts
May 13 17:20:35 <thiago_home> or do you mean .local hostnames?
May 13 17:21:09 <twoboxen> say i connect to my home wifi
May 13 17:21:24 <twoboxen> i have a host named : myhost or something
May 13 17:21:44 <twoboxen> http://myhost is resolved on EVERY device without keeping /etc/hosts up to date b/c it uses the gateway as a nameserver
May 13 17:21:56 <twoboxen> even my freaking iPhone could do that, but Maemo doesn't
May 13 17:22:32 <thiago_home> are you sure it's DNS?
May 13 17:22:34 <thiago_home> not mDNS?
May 13 17:22:59 <twoboxen> i don't know the difference
May 13 17:23:02 <twoboxen> what is mDNS
May 13 17:23:09 <thiago_home> multicast DNS
May 13 17:23:21 <twoboxen> i don't use multicast (knowingly) at home
May 13 17:23:35 <thiago_home> you do, if you have any apple device
May 13 17:23:46 <thiago_home> open a regular linux shell and type: host myhost
May 13 17:23:49 <thiago_home> does it resolve?
May 13 17:24:04 <twoboxen> no
May 13 17:24:12 <twoboxen> (i'm not at home)
May 13 17:24:19 <twoboxen> but ping myhost fails too
May 13 17:24:38 <twoboxen> the name just isn't resolved
May 13 17:24:46 <thiago_home> then we've just shown that it's not just the maemo device
May 13 17:25:01 <TSCHAKeee> ah the joys of tech support
May 13 17:25:03 <twoboxen> I added an entry to /etc/hosts, but i have a lot of servers and other pcs at home that i would like to not have to maintain addresses of
May 13 17:25:04 <TSCHAKeee> ;)
May 13 17:25:12 <twoboxen> huh?
May 13 17:25:24 <glinpus> so get the local nameserver in resolv.conf
May 13 17:25:28 <twoboxen> i can ping from EVERY other device
May 13 17:25:40 <twoboxen> resolv.conf doesn't contain it
May 13 17:25:51 <thiago_home> or configure avahi properly
May 13 17:26:00 <thiago_home> if you don't want to maintain /etc/hosts, you want DNS
May 13 17:26:02 <thiago_home> or mDNS
May 13 17:26:08 <thiago_home> either way, it's out of our hands
May 13 17:26:21 <thiago_home> please read up on those protocols and find help in regular Linux channels
May 13 17:26:25 <thiago_home> hint: Avahi for mDNS
May 13 17:26:33 <twoboxen> so Maemo is the one device on my entire network that doesn't work and it's not Maemo's fault
May 13 17:26:35 <twoboxen> ok....
May 13 17:26:51 <thiago_home> didn't you just show that it's *not* the only device?
May 13 17:27:29 <twoboxen> no, every device can ping / ssh / connect / whatever to every other device--except for maemo trying to ping any device
May 13 17:27:42 <twoboxen> every device can ping it
May 13 17:27:46 <thiago_home> including other, regular Linux machines?
May 13 17:27:49 <twoboxen> yes
May 13 17:27:51 <twoboxen> absolutely
May 13 17:27:59 <thiago_home> then please open a shell in one of those and run the command I asked
May 13 17:28:01 <thiago_home> like I asked you to
May 13 17:28:07 <twoboxen> again, i'm not at home
May 13 17:28:11 <twoboxen> but i can tunnel in
May 13 17:28:16 <thiago_home> then come back when you are
May 13 17:28:17 <twoboxen> what would you like me to run there
May 13 17:28:32 <thiago_home> 19:23 < thiago_home> open a regular linux shell and type: host myhost
May 13 17:28:42 * lbt opens the popcorn....
May 13 17:29:24 <twoboxen> host myhost doesn't work
May 13 17:29:30 <twoboxen> ping myhost does
May 13 17:29:36 <twoboxen> (from a linux nas, not the n900)
May 13 17:30:10 <lbt> "doesn't work" .... mmm
May 13 17:30:19 <twoboxen> "host command not found"
May 13 17:30:23 <suihkulokki> ...
May 13 17:30:50 <twoboxen> this is on nslu2 linux box
May 13 17:31:00 <twoboxen> so not all commands are available
May 13 17:31:06 <thiago_home> you need to install the command first
May 13 17:31:13 <thiago_home> it's part of package bind-utils
May 13 17:31:19 <thiago_home> at least in the distro I use
May 13 17:31:29 * lbt has image of thiago_home lying on the floor sobbing and slowly reaching up to the keyboard with one hand....
May 13 17:32:54 <twoboxen> so fun getting lambasted for bringing up an issue that i've not experienced before
May 13 17:33:06 <twoboxen> community reputation confirmed
May 13 17:33:30 <twoboxen> myhost has address 10.2.2.1
May 13 17:33:55 <thiago_home> so it resolved, with "host" ?
May 13 17:34:02 <twoboxen> on the linux nas
May 13 17:34:08 <twoboxen> yes
May 13 17:34:33 <thiago_home> so the name is on DNS
May 13 17:34:48 <twoboxen> right
May 13 17:34:57 <thiago_home> that means Maemo should find it
May 13 17:35:19 <twoboxen> right, but it doesn't... just making sure you know that the successful command was not from Maemo
May 13 17:35:34 <thiago_home> is that the exact thing it said?
May 13 17:35:45 <twoboxen> from the linux box, yes (not the n900)
May 13 17:35:48 <thiago_home> "myhost has addres..." not "myhost.mydomain has addresss..." ?
May 13 17:36:02 <twoboxen> yes, exact was "myhost has address 10.2.2.1"
May 13 17:36:07 <thiago_home> hmm
May 13 17:36:24 <thiago_home> I don't know why Maemo wouldn't find it
May 13 17:36:26 <thiago_home> it's the same setup
May 13 17:36:31 <twoboxen> exactly
May 13 17:36:34 <thiago_home> so it has to be dnsmasq failing somehow
May 13 17:36:35 <twoboxen> that's what i can't figure out
May 13 17:36:41 <thiago_home> luckily for you, MeeGo doesn't use dnsmasq
May 13 17:36:46 <twoboxen> good
May 13 17:36:50 <twoboxen> that was my original question
May 13 17:36:59 <twoboxen> not direct, but the essence
May 13 17:37:04 <twoboxen> different internals will be welcomed here
May 13 17:37:09 <thiago_home> yeah, but I was afraid you meant mDNS
May 13 17:37:13 <thiago_home> that's a whole different beast
May 13 17:37:53 <twoboxen> i wouldn't know... no experience
May 13 17:37:57 <twoboxen> thanks for the help
May 13 17:38:14 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: cool that you put metrics out :) reading through them now
May 13 17:38:45 <DawnFoster> Things are trending in the right direction (numbers-wise), which is good :)
May 13 17:39:06 <Stskeeps> ow @ kernel process comment being one of the longest :P
May 13 17:40:54 <DawnFoster> yeah, typical growing pains
May 13 17:40:55 <Stskeeps> impressive with 3310 people on the lists
May 13 17:41:01 <Stskeeps> well, on the -dev list
May 13 17:41:19 <DawnFoster> and a lot of people are actually participating, too and not just reading the list
May 13 17:42:40 <Stskeeps> good stuff :)
May 13 17:42:48 <DawnFoster> thanks!
May 13 17:42:54 <TSCHAKeee> y
May 13 17:42:59 <TSCHAKeee> yup
May 13 17:43:01 <TSCHAKeee> and i'm getting there
May 13 17:43:26 * TSCHAKeee will have DCERouter running on meego soon.
May 13 17:43:29 <Stskeeps> w00t_: could you be interested in doing some irc analysis with me?
May 13 17:43:35 <DawnFoster> I'd love to eventually have someone build an online dashboard that automates a lot of the gathering and let's people see the numbers any time
May 13 17:43:51 <DawnFoster> I would *love* to have some irc analysis!
May 13 17:44:10 <Stskeeps> one thing i need to do in meetbot - it should register how many people was listening i
May 13 17:44:13 <Stskeeps> n
May 13 17:45:15 <DawnFoster> that would be great. Right now, I've been counting mid-way through the meeting and adding it to a spreadsheet :)
May 13 17:45:30 <DawnFoster> which relies on me not forgetting to do it.
May 13 17:45:38 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: i have irc logs since the channel here opened, so i can probably process them
May 13 17:46:07 <DawnFoster> the hard part with irc is that there is so much data
May 13 17:46:09 <Stskeeps> yeah
May 13 17:46:31 <TSCHAKeee> how many people have freaked out that meego 1.0 only has an xterm: 4,296,402,639
May 13 17:46:41 <DawnFoster> lol
May 13 17:46:58 <RST38h> you call THIS data?
May 13 17:47:03 <DawnFoster> I *really* wish I had a number for that
May 13 17:47:32 <DawnFoster> it *could* be data :)
May 13 17:47:38 <Stskeeps> google claims approximately 40.000 results ;)
May 13 17:47:40 <Stskeeps> for meego xterm
May 13 17:47:45 <TSCHAKeee> daily growth percentage of the PR1.2 speculation thread: 4000%
May 13 17:47:48 <TSCHAKeee> :P
May 13 17:48:14 <TSCHAKeee> ok i'll be quiet now :)
May 13 17:48:23 <TSCHAKeee> just the coffee kicking in
May 13 17:48:58 <DawnFoster> it's funny to see which threads spark the most arguments :)
May 13 17:49:29 <TSCHAKeee> it's a trip
May 13 17:49:31 <DawnFoster> the forum ones are hilarious. People really can about naming and conference locations :)
May 13 17:49:42 <DawnFoster> can/care
May 13 17:49:47 <thiago_home> guys, the date for PR1.2 has been set
May 13 17:50:03 <TSCHAKeee> thiago_home: i know.. and i've told everybody I know
May 13 17:50:12 <tripzero> TSCHAKeee, you called me?
May 13 17:50:26 <TSCHAKeee> thiago_home: that doesn't stop the idiots from falling off the cliff by the truckload
May 13 17:51:25 <TSCHAKeee> i really never knew there were whole legions of smartphone users who are such spoiled brats, until the n900 came into being....
May 13 17:51:43 <TSCHAKeee> i mean...wow.
May 13 17:52:01 <Stskeeps> it was impressive how much gadget lust was doing to people when they were on preorder
May 13 17:52:04 <Stskeeps> :P
May 13 17:52:10 <TSCHAKeee> yeah
May 13 17:52:19 <TSCHAKeee> everybody thought it would brew their coffee out of the box
May 13 17:52:22 <Terje_> TSCHAKeee, I thought that's how open source works.
May 13 17:52:50 <TSCHAKeee> Terje_: you mean, the whole "I bought the thing therefore I get a free bitching card?" :P
May 13 17:53:14 <GAN900> TSCHAKeee, think how much worse Symbian is.
May 13 17:53:16 <tripzero> bitching cards are always free
May 13 17:53:28 <TSCHAKeee> GAN900: that just gave me a migraine... oh wait, that was the caffeine
May 13 17:53:30 <Terje_> TSCHAKeee, yep, except that usually people don't seem to need any excuse for getting a bitching card.
May 13 17:53:30 <TSCHAKeee> ;)
May 13 17:53:42 <GAN900> I just wish they'd all call Nokia "Care"
May 13 17:54:02 <GAN900> Maybe their bitching would help a bit then.
May 13 17:54:06 <TSCHAKeee> yeah i think so
May 13 17:54:16 <TSCHAKeee> or maybe nokia just open up the UI for their core apps
May 13 17:54:20 <TSCHAKeee> so we can fix them
May 13 17:54:21 <GAN900> Hehe
May 13 17:54:41 <TSCHAKeee> i'll spend all my time floating through bug tickets and fixing things if i could just get at the code
May 13 17:54:44 <TSCHAKeee> i love my n900
May 13 17:54:47 <GAN900> Well, fun story, what I've heard about the reference stuff for MeeGo is that it'll basically be useless.
May 13 17:54:48 <TSCHAKeee> a lot
May 13 17:54:57 <GAN900> Still differentiating I guess.
May 13 17:55:04 <TSCHAKeee> *facepalm*
May 13 17:55:10 <GAN900> So we've got our work cut out for that.
May 13 17:55:23 * CosmoHill stabs adobe
May 13 17:55:27 <GAN900> TSCHAKeee, well, there are open source things
May 13 17:55:30 <CosmoHill> can't even export to PDF correctly
May 13 17:55:34 <GAN900> Fancy fixing Modest?
May 13 17:55:47 <TSCHAKeee> i will try to split my time evenly between meego and linuxmce (keeping in mind I do lead that project(
May 13 17:55:55 <TSCHAKeee> actually, sure.
May 13 17:56:03 <GAN900> I think a lot of people might throw themselves at your feet for that.
May 13 17:56:04 <TSCHAKeee> modest needs lots of love
May 13 17:56:14 <TSCHAKeee> just simple things, really
May 13 17:56:18 <GAN900> Indeed it does
May 13 17:56:19 <GAN900> Yup
May 13 17:56:29 <GAN900> Most of the issues are pretty minor
May 13 17:56:35 <TSCHAKeee> what's everybody's big gripe over it?
May 13 17:56:36 <GAN900> There are just lots of them.
May 13 17:56:40 <GAN900> Proper quoting
May 13 17:56:40 <TSCHAKeee> I just use it to read my top few emails
May 13 17:56:52 <GAN900> Having plaintext emails not be double-wrapped
May 13 17:56:57 <TSCHAKeee> gotcha.
May 13 17:56:58 * ShadowJK would like message threading in modest
May 13 17:57:03 <GAN900> Threading
May 13 17:57:07 <GAN900> Bastatd.
May 13 17:57:20 <TSCHAKeee> like let's say press and hold to expand a thread?
May 13 17:57:28 <GAN900> Maybe
May 13 17:57:30 <TSCHAKeee> hmm
May 13 17:57:37 <GAN900> We've got a lot of UI guys around
May 13 17:58:06 <TSCHAKeee> i'm a both brainer.. do both ui design and hard core dev work..
May 13 17:58:32 <ShadowJK> well I wouldn't really even need treeview.. bugt grouping messages from same thread together and messages inside thread sorted in thread order
May 13 17:58:43 <TSCHAKeee> yeah, that too
May 13 17:58:48 <TSCHAKeee> with a visual indicator
May 13 17:58:58 <GAN900> TSCHAKeee, also, if we have a lot of patches from the community on a Nokia open source project we can use that as ammo.
May 13 17:59:01 <TSCHAKeee> that, hey, there are other threads in this (a paper stack icon)
May 13 17:59:14 <TSCHAKeee> indeed.
May 13 17:59:16 <ShadowJK> I would hate that
May 13 17:59:43 <ShadowJK> the issue is that messages are now in pretty random order :)
May 13 17:59:52 <TSCHAKeee> mmhm
May 13 17:59:58 <TSCHAKeee> well, i use nokia messaging
May 13 18:00:05 <TSCHAKeee> how about everyone else here?
May 13 18:00:16 <ShadowJK> oh other feature requests: ability to delete or move messages without opening them first
May 13 18:00:59 <suihkulokki> < GAN900> Having plaintext emails not be double-wrapped
May 13 18:01:18 <suihkulokki> sure those are plaintext and not mime mails with both plain and html?
May 13 18:02:57 <ShadowJK> I haven't been able to use modest enough to be able to tell whether it also makes it hard/difficult to follow proper nice etiquette
May 13 18:05:44 <twoboxen> offline caching in modest?
May 13 18:06:14 <twoboxen> unified inbox
May 13 18:07:00 <twoboxen> multiple exchange (yes, exchange sucks but until they support caldav I have to use it more than once --work/gmail)... probably not modest, but still :)
May 13 18:07:07 * CosmoHill lols at the "professional web design companty" that uses tables on their own website
May 13 18:10:10 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: how are the metrics currently collected? like, brought to you?
May 13 18:10:26 <GAN900> suihkulokki, every single email from the lists does that.
May 13 18:10:41 <GAN900> suihkulokki, either way, it shouldn't be double-wrapping.
May 13 18:11:06 <DawnFoster> stskeeps: I collect most of them myself from the source.
May 13 18:11:30 <DawnFoster> mailing list data - I run mysql queries on a local db of mailing list data from mlstats
May 13 18:11:35 <Stskeeps> :nod:
May 13 18:11:50 <DawnFoster> forums / wiki have stats pages
May 13 18:12:08 <DawnFoster> etc.
May 13 18:12:12 * Stskeeps ponders if he has logs of hits on the meeting logs
May 13 18:12:44 <DawnFoster> this is why I'd love to have a stats dashboard :)
May 13 18:13:21 <Stskeeps> yeah, i have preserved website logs for /meetbot URL as well
May 13 18:15:03 <pupnik> sdl event loops are always sphaghetti, aren't they
May 13 18:15:32 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: do you have a wishlist of IRC analysis if we were to start somewhere?
May 13 18:16:17 <CosmoHill> just a random question
May 13 18:16:25 <CosmoHill> are kids under 13 allowed on IRC servers?
May 13 18:16:37 <Stskeeps> depends on legalisation
May 13 18:16:50 <Stskeeps> i've seen networks banning people under 18 :)
May 13 18:16:50 <twoboxen> my maturity level is borderline then
May 13 18:17:17 <CosmoHill> well i knew he was a kid before he even asked me
May 13 18:17:37 <CosmoHill> going to someone you think is a kid "what is your age and location" looks very bad tho :/
May 13 18:17:45 <Stskeeps> i think it's a shame if for instance freenode banned 13-18 as teenagers with too much time on their hands is a valuable resource for open source projects :P
May 13 18:18:08 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps: 2 things I'd like to see. 1) some data on the numbers of people in the channel trending over time (ideally numbers logged in and data about who talks - like meetbot number of lines or something) and 2) very high level content analysis - like a tag cloud or meaningful words with number of mentions (excluding all the standard the/and/but/etc.)
May 13 18:18:10 <twoboxen> how is IRC different than any other chatroom/forum
May 13 18:18:11 <CosmoHill> well I've got a pup in my channel that seems to be well with linux
May 13 18:18:23 <CosmoHill> i keep forgetting that the kids of today have tech differently
May 13 18:18:44 <CosmoHill> like lets say everyone got a computer in 2000, I'd be 11, he'd be 3, you'd be 20
May 13 18:18:55 <CosmoHill> whilst we're different ages we all got the tech at the same time
May 13 18:20:11 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: alright - number of people in channel will have a uncertainty factor due to only logging join/parts/nickname changes. who talks - easy, ..
May 13 18:20:36 <Stskeeps> i'll take a look around - any preferred resulting formats? CSV?
May 13 18:21:54 <DawnFoster> stskeeps: data about who talks is more interesting anyway.
May 13 18:22:27 <Stskeeps> http://elanor.mine.nu/daeron/script.fi.html is fairly standard
May 13 18:22:31 <DawnFoster> I have a good feel for number of people logged in (usu 375 − 390) lately
May 13 18:22:46 <DawnFoster> csv format is fine
May 13 18:23:37 <CosmoHill> Stskeeps: that looks very interesting
May 13 18:23:45 <DawnFoster> stskeeps: something like that link would be perfect!
May 13 18:24:09 <DawnFoster> only caveat is that I need to cut the data by month if possible
May 13 18:24:19 <Stskeeps> yeah, it's a matter of merging the logs together
May 13 18:24:26 <DawnFoster> or have a way to get a snapshot every month
May 13 18:24:27 <Stskeeps> i keep my logs by day, so
May 13 18:28:04 <DawnFoster> stskeeps: thanks again for looking into the irc analysis for me! So much happens here, and I'd really like to have some data in the metrics about it
May 13 18:32:20 <GAN900> ShadowJK, damn near impossible.
May 13 18:32:56 <GAN900> ShadowJK, useless "quoting" which consists of a line of text inserted before the original message.
May 13 19:10:16 <w00t_> Stskeeps: analysis in what sense?
May 13 19:14:13 <GAN900> w00t_, we're going to calculate everybody's useless factor. :P
May 13 19:14:40 <w00t_> GAN900: if that were true, I suspect most of the channel would have already been obliterated
May 13 19:14:44 <w00t_> :-)
May 13 19:16:44 <CosmoHill> how many lines someone has said
May 13 19:16:55 <CosmoHill> and how many lines of which were actually useful in some way
May 13 19:17:28 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats.html is for feb, there's something odd with 'last days' but hmm
May 13 19:18:00 <CosmoHill> holy crap, I'm 2nd!
May 13 19:18:02 <Stskeeps> will try a march one now
May 13 19:18:04 <Stskeeps> CosmoHill: no shit
May 13 19:18:05 <Stskeeps> :P
May 13 19:18:39 <w00t_> CosmoHill: you don't shut up often :-)
May 13 19:19:22 <DawnFoster> wow! That's sweet, thanks
May 13 19:19:47 <Myrtti> *mwaaah*
May 13 19:20:50 <Stskeeps> http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats-march.html
May 13 19:20:56 <Stskeeps> looks like we need to make it ignore some words :)
May 13 19:21:00 <sp3000> Stskeeps: it's missing timezone info :)
May 13 19:21:04 <CosmoHill> Stskeeps: what time zone is this in?
May 13 19:21:29 <Stskeeps> hmm
May 13 19:21:33 <Stskeeps> i guess 'denmark'
May 13 19:21:37 <th0br0> haha, cool ;)
May 13 19:21:52 <th0br0> funny to see that I'm sixth.
May 13 19:22:04 <CosmoHill> also why is the day right to left?
May 13 19:22:40 <Stskeeps> no idea
May 13 19:23:34 <sp3000> it ends at 0 so is that ...0 days ago?
May 13 19:24:10 <Stskeeps> well, from the time the log ended
May 13 19:24:15 <CosmoHill> hehe, "think people would nokia Stskeeps"
May 13 19:24:25 <CosmoHill> that's almost a sentence
May 13 19:25:10 <Stskeeps> http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats-april.html as well, and that's about it for now
May 13 19:25:20 <Stskeeps> (just a first attempt so we get some impression)
May 13 19:26:56 <CosmoHill> This seems like good evidence that I spent to much time on IRC :/
May 13 19:28:45 <lcuk> Stskeeps, whats the overall stats like
May 13 19:28:52 <Stskeeps> like, total?
May 13 19:29:02 * Stskeeps runs it
May 13 19:29:27 <lcuk> yeah :D
May 13 19:29:47 <lcuk> i always thought we should have these frequently updated for maemo etc
May 13 19:29:51 * CosmoHill hides
May 13 19:29:54 * lcuk spoke to marius about it
May 13 19:31:22 <Stskeeps> http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats-total.html
May 13 19:32:28 <Stskeeps> i don't like this analysis's top words
May 13 19:32:52 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Why? It has got "meego"
May 13 19:33:04 <Stskeeps> RST38h: it catches nicknames too much
May 13 19:33:11 <RST38h> oh
May 13 19:33:16 <CosmoHill> apparently I'm one of Aprils key words :/.
May 13 19:33:25 <Stskeeps> even though it's obvious i, thiago and arjan are popular ;)
May 13 19:33:27 <RST38h> It is probably useful to have the whole list of all the urls
May 13 19:33:59 <lcuk> those most used words are important
May 13 19:34:10 <Stskeeps> the hourly statistics are interesting though
May 13 19:34:10 <lcuk> :d they indicate what people keep hammering about
May 13 19:34:31 <Stskeeps> 3am danish time - i guess that's about when intel US work time ends?
May 13 19:34:44 <RST38h> no
May 13 19:35:15 <RST38h> 23:36 MSK time, 15:36 EST, Intel closes at 16:00-18:00
May 13 19:37:42 <lcuk> Stskeeps, you didnt bring the bot in immediately did you?
May 13 19:37:53 <Stskeeps> this is from my personal logs
May 13 19:38:03 <Stskeeps> ie, from day zero
May 13 19:38:20 <DawnFoster> Time conversions to portland:
May 13 19:38:31 <lcuk> i count 133813 lines, yours counts 125967
May 13 19:38:40 <DawnFoster> 0:00 = 3:00pm
May 13 19:38:40 <DawnFoster> 6:00 = 9:15pm
May 13 19:38:40 <DawnFoster> 12:00 = 3:15am
May 13 19:38:40 <DawnFoster> 18:00 = 9:00am
May 13 19:38:50 <DawnFoster> assuming denmark to US pacific time
May 13 19:39:13 <Stskeeps> lcuk: i lost some logs due to network difficuluties
May 13 19:39:23 <DawnFoster> so, Intel work day is about 17:00 − 02:00
May 13 19:41:13 <CosmoHill> DawnFoster: where did the 15 come from?
May 13 19:41:34 <DawnFoster> I'll need some context :) 15 what?
May 13 19:41:45 <DawnFoster> oh, in the times
May 13 19:41:54 <DawnFoster> oops, ignore those
May 13 19:42:00 <DawnFoster> copy and paste error
May 13 19:42:15 <Stskeeps> i was getting worried the LHC did cause some time shift ;)
May 13 19:42:20 <CosmoHill> in the morning we get 15 mins less sleep than we through :o
May 13 19:42:31 <DawnFoster> either that or Portland randomly shifts 15 minutes in the middle of the night :)
May 13 19:43:02 <lcuk> Stskeeps, eep seems to be reasonably linear drop off tho, timeless lost out - he moved 2 places during your downtime
May 13 19:45:23 * Stskeeps glances at wordle
May 13 19:45:40 <koupsa> Stskeeps, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM about lhc
May 13 19:45:40 <koupsa> I go out :)
May 13 19:48:02 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: http://www.jibble.org/piespy/ might also be a interesting tool
May 13 19:52:08 <DawnFoster> that would be interesting to see
May 13 19:52:53 <Stskeeps> could be interesting on mailing lists as well, if simple referencing data is possible to extract
May 13 19:53:07 <CosmoHill> that looks like ZenWalk but for people
May 13 19:53:15 <CosmoHill> instead of networked computers
May 13 19:53:36 <Stskeeps> the emerging patterns would hopefully be the teams of meego and their surrounding contributors
May 13 21:55:49 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
May 13 22:08:37 <fadiodeh_> hi everyone
May 13 22:49:47 <Myrtti> DawnFoster: ping
May 13 22:49:58 <DawnFoster> hey Myrtti
May 13 22:51:53 <Myrtti> DawnFoster: I'm trying to do fact checking on my blog post about the meego workgroup day, and checking my video I'm conviniently coughing when one of the guys says his names on the Maemo panel...
May 13 22:52:33 <Myrtti> and now I'm getting mixed up by which video is which, argh
May 13 22:52:48 <DawnFoster> Is it the panel where I was moderating?
May 13 22:53:13 <DawnFoster> the agenda with times is still up (if it helps) http://events.linuxfoundation.org/lfcs2010/meego-workgroup
May 13 22:55:26 <Myrtti> DawnFoster: yup, but I was just wondering because @bergie has the names wrong in his Qaiku: "Sakari Poussa, Dawn Foster, Mark Skarpness and Andy Wilson"
May 13 22:56:30 <DawnFoster> Ah, it was Sakari Poussa, Arjan Van de Ven, Andy Wilson, and Dawn Foster seated left to right if you are looking up from the audience.
May 13 22:56:57 <DawnFoster> it was probably Arjan - he also tends to talk really fast :) (hi arjan)
May 13 22:59:43 <DawnFoster> we made a last minute panel substitution for Arjan instead of Mark, so @bergie probably had an old agenda.
May 13 23:00:57 <Myrtti> ah, that must be the reason, I wondered about that
May 13 23:20:33 <Termana> good morning
May 13 23:20:47 <CosmoHill> it's morning? crap
May 13 23:26:48 <TSCHAKeee> mutter is clicking in my brain now...good...
May 13 23:27:55 <tmzt> the javascript stuff?
May 13 23:28:20 <TSCHAKeee> metacity+clutter
May 14 00:17:17 <jacquesdupontd> hi
May 14 00:17:48 <jacquesdupontd> i would like to know if its possible to run moblin or meego on arm 9 board ?
May 14 00:18:10 <CosmoHill> I think meego only supports the Nokia n900 at the moment
May 14 00:20:33 <jacquesdupontd> like that http://cgi.ebay.com/mini2440-S3C2440-ARM9-Board-3-5-TFT-LCD-Touch-Screen-/120568858811?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1276c8bb
May 14 00:21:05 <jacquesdupontd> i would like if it this type of board are the same board used for iphones and multiples known phones for example
May 14 00:23:47 <pupnik> 02:45 < DocScrutinizer> you seen the "take two phones and shake them" for generating a shared secret? :-D
May 14 00:26:11 <CosmoHill> sod it, I'm having a red bull
May 14 00:30:52 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: what?
May 14 00:31:06 <pupnik> that is awesome!
May 14 00:31:16 <DocScrutinizer> yep, alas not my idea :-)
May 14 00:31:21 * CosmoHill needs two badly made web forms :(
May 14 00:32:32 <pupnik> jacquesdupontd: meego should be runnable on x86 soon enough
May 14 00:32:35 <jacquesdupontd> could you show me thelink
May 14 00:32:52 <jacquesdupontd> no redbull = cc
May 14 00:33:01 <pupnik> i just know that is planned
May 14 00:33:34 <jacquesdupontd> yeah but i wanted to know if those arm 9 boards
May 14 00:33:45 <CosmoHill> iirc meego 1.0 comes out this month
May 14 00:34:05 <jacquesdupontd> are as powerfull as an iphone board or an android phone board an why not a moblin/meego one
May 14 00:34:26 <jacquesdupontd> cause i'm building a tablet and im searching what device to take
May 14 00:34:55 <jacquesdupontd> i'm gonna build a very powerfull tablet and another one that could be very cheap but good anyway
May 14 00:35:16 <pupnik> arm9 is like 2004 tech
May 14 00:35:26 <jacquesdupontd> i want the best tablet to be built with nvidia tegra 2 but i can't get to buy it it seems
May 14 00:35:48 <TSCHAKeee> jacquesdupontd: are you a systems designer?
May 14 00:35:49 <jacquesdupontd> and the other would be an arm based
May 14 00:36:04 <jacquesdupontd> we cant say that
May 14 00:36:09 <jacquesdupontd> i'm a device builder
May 14 00:36:14 * TSCHAKeee rolls eyes
May 14 00:36:27 <TSCHAKeee> lovely
May 14 00:36:30 <jacquesdupontd> and i'm using the best ui's to fit the device
May 14 00:36:33 <jacquesdupontd> and ilove meego
May 14 00:36:49 <jacquesdupontd> would love it to run on a cheap board like that
May 14 00:37:00 * TSCHAKeee is getting very tired of the whole hush hush attitude that this community is attracting
May 14 00:37:17 <TSCHAKeee> everybody under some form of NDA
May 14 00:37:24 <jacquesdupontd> but i would be paying the ppl who worked for all stuff i'll be using
May 14 00:37:48 <jacquesdupontd> i'm not a stealer and by the way i'm making my own ui based on debian/ubuntu
May 14 00:37:56 * TSCHAKeee laughs
May 14 00:37:58 <TSCHAKeee> okay
May 14 00:38:33 <TSCHAKeee> jacquesdupontd: sorry, but i see people like you all the time...and you tend to set off my bullshit meter
May 14 00:38:35 <jacquesdupontd> it can be funny but my only wish is to make cheap device that are good seriously with no pretention at all
May 14 00:38:37 <TSCHAKeee> so i am leaving now.
May 14 00:38:41 * CosmoHill takes a swig of red bull
May 14 00:39:27 <jacquesdupontd> please dont leave i didn't want you to be hated by what i said, i'm just bored about seeing only ipads everywhere with nobody trying to counter them
May 14 00:39:39 <jacquesdupontd> then i choosed to do the job
May 14 00:40:43 <jacquesdupontd> but i'm gonna leave if you can't get it, i don't really understand but i'm here peacefully and trying to have ideas to use uis like meego and others that are really good
May 14 00:41:04 <jacquesdupontd> sorry for having been here .
May 14 00:41:08 <pupnik> it's ok
May 14 00:41:27 <pupnik> we all have varying degrees of clue
May 14 00:41:31 <CosmoHill> we're not meant to scare people awway
May 14 00:43:20 * pupnik is now obsessed with meego on next gen nokias
May 14 00:43:24 <pupnik> :/
May 14 00:43:39 <pupnik> actually i'm going to call it linux
May 14 00:43:56 <TSCHAKeee> for every one quiet person who knows what to do
May 14 00:44:04 <TSCHAKeee> there are 10,000 loudmouths who don't have a clue.
May 14 00:44:09 <TSCHAKeee> :/
May 14 00:44:15 <pupnik> irc is like that TSCHAKeee
May 14 00:44:26 <TSCHAKeee> I know.
May 14 00:44:30 <TSCHAKeee> ...
May 14 00:44:37 <TSCHAKeee> just tired of running into people who are all talk no do.
May 14 00:44:44 <CosmoHill> they're called PE teachers
May 14 00:44:54 <TSCHAKeee> hehehe
May 14 00:45:23 <pupnik> i'm trying to fix up linapple for N900
May 14 00:45:26 <pupnik> want to help?
May 14 00:46:05 <TSCHAKeee> btw, you don't want meego on the 2440.. it is an ARM920t based board with an arm4 instruction set.. I have one here... pain in the ass.
May 14 00:46:17 <TSCHAKeee> linapple?
May 14 00:46:22 <pupnik> yeah same cpu used in the gp2x
May 14 00:46:34 <pupnik> apple ][ emulator
May 14 00:46:51 <TSCHAKeee> straight sdl port should work just fine
May 14 00:46:52 <pupnik> i port/build games... http://pupnik.de/software.html
May 14 00:46:57 <Termana> MeeGo won't work on armv4 anyway
May 14 00:46:59 <TSCHAKeee> all you should need to do is a recompile for most of it
May 14 00:47:01 <pupnik> yeah... talk to me baby
May 14 00:47:27 <CosmoHill> pupnik: cool
May 14 00:47:42 <CosmoHill> I might try and add a GUI via Qt to my game
May 14 00:47:49 <TSCHAKeee> Termana: I've spent way too long trying to cobble together a toolchain from openmoko to use the damn thing.. and that chip has so many pitfalls, it's insane.. (#E@($# !!!
May 14 00:48:08 <pupnik> i do what i can, in my spare time, for fun
May 14 00:49:04 <pupnik> TSCHAKeee: i guess you do this for a living?
May 14 00:49:27 <TSCHAKeee> i wish. I would if it could pay consistently enough.
May 14 00:49:34 <Termana> Sorry, I should be more clear, it is not a good idea to try and use an armv4 board - unless your are a masochist - you would need to compile the whole code base for armv4 (and hope it doesn't contain assembly code for armv5 and above)
May 14 00:49:45 <Termana> Then you would have to compile each and every applications from scratch
May 14 00:49:52 * TSCHAKeee is aware
May 14 00:49:59 <TSCHAKeee> i'm just trying to port Orbiter to the damn thing
May 14 00:50:07 <TSCHAKeee> for a client
May 14 00:50:43 <TSCHAKeee> pupnik: I do various contract jobs during the day, personal research work as night (I am lead developer for the LinuxMCE project, and I am also active in a few other projects.)
May 14 00:51:02 <pupnik> i respect real programmers
May 14 00:51:06 <Termana> And by the time you've done that - you still can't use the Handset UX - no Open GL ES 2 on any of those armv4 boards AFAIK
May 14 00:51:11 <TSCHAKeee> yu[
May 14 00:51:16 <TSCHAKeee> trust me i know
May 14 00:51:23 <Termana> So you may as well not have MeeGo on it :P
May 14 00:51:40 <pupnik> actually the dude you want to tell that to has left, Termana
May 14 00:51:40 <TSCHAKeee> pupnik: I'm a polymath. I program only because I have to
May 14 00:51:49 <pupnik> hah! i KNOW what you mean
May 14 00:51:59 <CosmoHill> yay, red bull is kicking in :)
May 14 00:52:27 <Termana> pupnik, I thought I'd just let the whole room know the ramifications of his idea.
May 14 00:52:36 <Termana> So no one else tries it
May 14 00:52:41 <pupnik> ok
May 14 00:52:48 * TSCHAKeee laughs
May 14 00:52:57 <TSCHAKeee> that mini2440 board has been one big black hole
May 14 00:53:14 <TSCHAKeee> completely %(@#@(# useless
May 14 00:54:30 <CosmoHill> hey DawnFoster
May 14 00:54:46 <pupnik> i'd like to see free software gain a better foothold in the mobile space
May 14 00:54:46 <DawnFoster> hey CosmoHIll
May 14 00:54:48 <pupnik> you know... totalitarian governments and all
May 14 01:38:12 * CosmoHill yawns
May 14 01:38:43 <CosmoHill> 235 done, 1000 more to go
May 14 01:40:52 <pupnik> what
May 14 01:42:33 <CosmoHill> words*
May 14 01:43:16 <GAN900> pupnik, only real programmers? :P
May 14 01:43:27 <GAN900> TSCHAKeee, join #maemo for extra spam.
May 14 01:43:38 <TSCHAKeee> hehehhheh
May 14 01:43:44 <TSCHAKeee> uggghh
May 14 01:44:18 <pupnik> GAN900: maybe you have some idea of how many thousands of hours i have spent porting stuff, incredibly slowly and badly
May 14 01:44:23 <pupnik> but nobody else was doing it
May 14 01:44:33 <pupnik> so i stopped.  and now better people took up the slack.
May 14 01:44:35 <pupnik> that makes me happy
May 14 01:44:37 <GAN900> Some, maybe. ;)
May 14 01:45:16 <pupnik> yeah, going on 14 hours for this stupid fix to the apple emu
May 14 02:56:28 <TSCHAKeee> my god, i can't read the t.m.o forums anymore
May 14 02:57:00 <TSCHAKeee> it's all drama drama drama drama drama oh no, i am leaving, because nokia sucks, no apps no apps no apps
May 14 02:58:28 <pupnik> same here
May 14 02:58:46 <pupnik> i mean leaving t.m.o is understandable ;)
May 14 02:58:55 <pupnik> but just because time is limited
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 14 02:59:56 2010