**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 20 03:00:00 2010 May 20 03:38:24 Hi Stskeeps May 20 03:39:20 Is there any document available about how to run meego on arm device May 20 03:40:33 Guest42152, documented to death on the wiki May 20 03:41:17 Hi all i have Intel atom netbook is there is any detailed procedure available to load MeeGo on intel atom NetBook May 20 03:41:20 ? May 20 03:46:11 documented to death on the wiki May 20 03:46:20 * TSCHAKeee puts that in a macro. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 20 03:51:34 2010 May 20 03:56:10 s there any MeeGo img to run on qemu ? May 20 05:18:39 i tried to make meego image, but it is complaining about missing dependencies: Missing Dependency: yelp is needed by package system-config-... May 20 05:21:44 and i think it worked before, so is there problems in repository? May 20 05:21:55 what kickstart file did you use? May 20 05:23:58 StsKeeps : i all ways wondering like how that kickstart file is working isthere any detailed description about kickstart ? May 20 05:24:38 Vali: hmm, that's a good question May 20 05:25:05 googling around for "kickstart files" will get you somewhere May 20 05:25:57 Stskeeps, the kickstart files floating around are a little behind the curve. May 20 05:26:22 TSCHAKeee: not disagreeing and personally waiting for 1.0 to clear up a lot of mess May 20 05:26:42 Stskeeps, you almost said that word again. ;) May 20 05:27:07 which? May 20 05:27:08 :P May 20 05:27:09 (you know, that 'h' word) May 20 05:27:12 heheheh May 20 05:27:24 which one of them? :P May 20 05:28:57 Stskeeps, hope May 20 05:28:59 heheheheh May 20 05:29:03 ah, yes May 20 05:35:49 REMINDER: we'll be having our first public sync meeting of the N900 hardware adaptation team in #meego-meeting in 30 minutes, agenda is at http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900#Next_meeting May 20 05:50:14 i'm going to have a fun day it seems, loud drilling in the concrete from 7am in the morning May 20 05:51:23 sounds good May 20 07:15:03 Today, is more than likely going to be quite arduous :/ May 20 07:15:12 mm? May 20 07:15:40 Work, issues with a project I'm working on. The developers are based in Isreal, so communications aren't too great. May 20 07:15:50 And they're pretty incompetant. May 20 07:27:31 hi guys... May 20 07:27:38 morning May 20 07:27:57 any body have idea...which graphics engine is being used in meego.... May 20 07:27:59 gdmng stkeeps May 20 07:28:05 well, define what you mean May 20 07:28:12 it's a very wide question :) May 20 07:28:18 say chrome May 20 07:28:27 that's a browser engine :P May 20 07:28:28 which grpahics library it used. May 20 07:28:55 meego uses chrome for netbooks May 20 07:28:58 right May 20 07:29:16 but graphics engine? dunno, GL or GLES2.0 is the APIs i touch :P May 20 07:29:19 or on qt, qgraphicsview May 20 07:29:26 chrome browser in meego should be using some graphics library May 20 07:29:39 just like in androis chrome uses skia graphics May 20 07:29:57 not sure, you can hopefully soon look at the code and figure it out :) May 20 07:30:11 oh....thanks.... May 20 07:30:34 it might also be using skia May 20 07:31:09 i searched for skia in the source tree of meego...its not there May 20 07:42:22 it uses cairo? May 20 07:42:35 might May 20 07:42:41 hmm May 20 09:17:26 Hi May 20 09:17:50 I have a question on the ofono telephony interface , if there are two applications, APP 1 and APP2, APP1 makes a succesfull call attempt with ofono stack and call is succesful, now ofono stack gets a call release request May 20 09:18:02 how does ofono stack figure out whether the release request is coming from APP1 or APP2, please help me May 20 09:18:43 good question May 20 09:18:54 I've never looked at ofono so can't answer May 20 09:19:33 Hi. I compiled and install libdui and duitheme from harmattan UI framework (~ Meego Touch) May 20 09:19:56 But when i try to execute the widgetsgallery demo May 20 09:19:56 I get this message May 20 09:19:56 MRemoteThemeDaemon: Failed to connect to theme daemon (IPC) May 20 09:19:56 MThemeDaemon - base theme directory not found: /usr/local/share/themes/base/meegotouch/libmeegotouchcore/style. Please (re)install meegotouchtheme package. May 20 09:19:56 In /usr/local/share/themes/base/meegotouch/, I don't have a libmeegotouchcore repesitory May 20 09:19:56 any idea ? May 20 09:20:01 however, I'm guessing that requests to the ofono stack are made via dbus, so that would be how the stack knows where the requests originiate (each app must register uniquiely on dbus to send/receive messages) May 20 09:20:16 morn slaine May 20 09:20:23 Howdy Stskeeps May 20 09:55:35 sankar, i am guessing app2 doesn't know the context handle of app1's call request May 20 09:56:13 but the request is through dbus messages, there are no context handles between app and ofono May 20 09:57:06 i am sure ofono uses something to identify the context, whether it be message source, or some other id that was replied back over dbus to the source May 20 09:59:03 OK. Thanks , one more info, can I find any test applications that use the ofono telephony stack May 20 09:59:28 ofono has examples May 20 10:01:25 those examples are python scripts, but I am looking at some applications if any May 20 10:05:19 pohly, i'm the guy from bug http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2296 and maybe it's more easy to find the problem with irc than using email. so if you have questions about the bug, please ask. May 20 10:05:54 what hapened to http://meego.gitorious.org/ ? May 20 10:07:08 it's down, i think May 20 10:07:15 toabctl: okay. See my latest questions in that bug. May 20 10:07:28 We can continue the discussion here. May 20 10:08:20 pohly, i already answered your questions. May 20 10:08:33 pohly, see latest comment in the bug report. May 20 10:09:41 Stskeeps: is that going to be hosted a OSU ? May 20 10:09:56 which, sorry? May 20 10:10:10 gitorious stuff is best hosted at gitorious i'd think May 20 10:10:15 local know-how and website management May 20 10:11:57 right May 20 10:13:28 toabctl: hmm, works for me here. Please start syncevo-dbus-server manually in a separate shell with SYNCEVOLUTION_DEBUG=1 set, then try again and watch for output. May 20 10:14:35 pohly, tom@zitrone:~$ killall syncevo-dbus-server May 20 10:14:35 tom@zitrone:~$ killall syncevo-dbus-server May 20 10:14:35 syncevo-dbus-server: no process found May 20 10:14:35 tom@zitrone:~$ export SYNCEVOLUTION_DEBUG=1 May 20 10:14:35 tom@zitrone:~$ syncevolution -c --template 'SyncEvolution Client' --sync-property peerIsClient=1 N900CONFIG May 20 10:14:35 [ERROR] running the command line inside the D-Bus server failed May 20 10:14:37 tom@zitrone:~$ ps awxu|grep syncevo May 20 10:14:39 tom 4927 0.1 0.1 18312 5000 ? S 12:14 0:00 /usr/lib/syncevolution/syncevo-dbus-server May 20 10:14:41 tom 4929 0.0 0.0 3324 808 pts/1 S+ 12:14 0:00 grep syncevo May 20 10:15:10 guys, might be an idea to use pastebin May 20 10:15:36 I meant: run /usr/lib/syncevolution/syncevo-dbus-server manually, then the syncevolution command. May 20 10:15:59 * pohly lunch May 20 10:16:17 pohly, tom@zitrone:/usr/lib/syncevolution$ ./syncevo-dbus-server May 20 10:16:17 ./syncevo-dbus-server ready to run May 20 10:16:18 [DEBUG] No connman service available org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown May 20 10:16:18 [DEBUG] D-Bus client :1.118 has disconnected May 20 10:16:18 [DEBUG] D-Bus client :1.118 is destructing May 20 10:16:56 pohly, so syncevolution needs connman? May 20 10:17:18 No, this is not a hard error. Need to go now. May 20 10:19:53 pohly, ok. maybe we can talk later. May 20 10:23:06 i tried installing the nokia qt sdk beta edition.but getting the following error May 20 10:23:07 969133 May 20 10:23:11 http://pastie.org/969133 May 20 10:24:34 what does google say May 20 10:24:51 cant seem to find a proper solution May 20 10:25:06 i'm getting it during installation itself May 20 10:26:40 is it some dependency error? May 20 10:27:52 little help here? May 20 10:28:27 do you have for example openssl libraries installed? May 20 10:28:38 no i dont May 20 10:28:51 install them and see if you get the same errors May 20 10:29:02 okay.will check it out May 20 10:47:53 Hi all where i can find the information related to list of default applications going to be support in MeeGo1.0 Release ? May 20 10:53:21 greetings May 20 10:53:44 is there a development version of meego for n810? May 20 10:55:10 would probably be easier to show off when 1.0 is out :) May 20 10:56:09 ok May 20 10:57:37 toabctl: the next step would be to look at dbus-monitor to trace the communication between client and server. But are you really sure that this is the syncevo-dbus-server that you compiled yourself and not something older left from previous installations? That's the only explanation that I have. May 20 10:58:12 pohly, how can i get the version of the synevo-dbus-server? May 20 11:02:27 how about a project to repackage maemo5 rpms to meego May 20 11:02:47 i would like to spend a couple months in tampere May 20 11:03:21 pupnik_: regarding Nokia is going to release Meego device by the end of the year, they probably finishing the repackaging now :) May 20 11:03:35 ah ok May 20 11:03:58 i gotta say it is beautiful here May 20 11:04:09 grow the trees a bit bigger maybe May 20 11:04:27 toabctl: only via "syncevolution --version", which will fail if the server is too old. May 20 11:05:56 $ syncevolution --version May 20 11:05:56 [ERROR] running the command line inside the D-Bus server failed May 20 11:08:13 pohly, ah. i found the problem. i build the debian package (with the git souces) but only installed syncevolution and not sync-ui (which contains syncevo-dbus-server) May 20 11:08:21 $ syncevolution --version May 20 11:08:21 SyncEvolution 1.0beta3+20100519+SE+52707ae+unclean May 20 11:10:05 pohly, do i need syncevolution also on my n900 phone? May 20 11:10:25 That's a change in beta 3: now the command line also uses the D-Bus server. The server therefore belongs into the core package. May 20 11:10:26 pohly, or does the n900 (with maemo5) support syncml nativeliy? May 20 11:10:53 You can access it via Bluetooth without installing SyncEvolution on the N900. May 20 11:11:15 You also don't need syncevo-phone-config: just use the existing N900 config template. May 20 11:11:27 pohly, how to use it? May 20 11:11:48 pohly, i have a lot of contacts in evolution and want to send these contacts to my n900 May 20 11:12:51 If you use GNOME, then use the sync-ui. It'll detect devices paired via GNOME Bluetooth and help you set up a config. For the command line, follow the instructions in http://syncevolution.org/development/sync-phone May 20 11:13:13 pohly, and with the command line? May 20 11:13:59 pohly, the sync-ui does not follow the Interface guidelines of gnome;) May 20 11:14:34 See the first part of sync-phone, where it shows how to find the MAC address and gives you a command line to run with that information. May 20 11:14:59 Regarding sync-ui: patches for GNOME (and a maintainer) are welcome. It's primarily a Moblin app. May 20 11:15:47 pohly, ok. it works. just with: May 20 11:15:56 1) ./syncevo-phone-config.py --bt-address=0C:DD:EF:BB:AA:FF --advanced --create-config=N900 -v May 20 11:16:05 2) syncevolution N900 May 20 11:16:44 pohly, great! thanks a lot! that's a feature i ever missed with all my mobile phones. and now it works! cooool:-) May 20 11:24:53 is the Ux guideline for meego going to include the concept of 1) an ENTER key and 2) an escape key? May 20 11:25:17 IN / OUt May 20 11:25:33 depends if there is kb ? May 20 11:25:34 cause there is no escape key on N900 May 20 11:25:48 that's true May 20 11:26:07 forward back May 20 11:33:47 basically our minds are keyed to physical things May 20 11:34:00 forward back, up down May 20 11:34:22 pupnik_: we usually use backspace for "esc" function May 20 11:35:04 text entry complicates that by one key May 20 11:35:09 but yea May 20 11:36:22 well... esc has not much use in context we use backspace (text entry) and the contrary, backspace has no use in context we use esc (skipping, exiting dialogs) May 20 11:36:32 so I think we can safely combine them May 20 11:37:32 hmm May 20 11:38:11 i disagree May 20 11:38:25 i think we need an esc in addition to backspace May 20 11:38:45 example? May 20 11:38:49 to get OUT of text entry May 20 11:39:32 just tap outside of it? May 20 11:41:29 ie. you exit text entry the same way you entered it May 20 13:32:44 sorry i missed your response smoku May 20 13:32:59 thoop May 20 13:33:48 but i think it is important for everyne to agree May 20 13:34:22 that the "meta" 'get me out of this level' button May 20 13:34:41 is different from the "delete the lasty text i typed" button May 20 13:34:54 and n900 has a flaw in lacking the "get me out" button May 20 13:35:50 AND such buttons must not be modal or app apecific May 20 13:36:21 (this huge mistake is seen, for example, in DVD menus) May 20 13:37:46 WHY? Of course because content providers want to confuse users in a maze May 20 13:38:10 just like a food supermarket that rearranges the shelves every 4 months May 20 13:39:01 we can not accept such user-unfriendly design in an open OS May 20 13:40:44 ... or on a linux device May 20 13:41:16 well, user friendly design isn't always a trademark of open stuff ;) May 20 13:42:36 yeah, i am looking at the N900 May 20 13:42:57 slaine: fwiw May 20 13:43:06 mozilla-central (which is managed by mxr) has ~42k files May 20 13:43:11 meego has ~680k files May 20 13:43:41 as such, indexing it is quite a bit more painful :( May 20 13:49:54 timeless_mbp: excuses, excuses ;) May 20 13:50:14 slaine: yeah May 20 13:50:33 i'm going to have to look into changing the indexer so that it perhaps splits things by top level directory and merges later May 20 13:51:21 slaine: for reference, mxr.moego.org/os/ has opensolaris, and that data set is collectively 450k files, but the largest individual index is 130k files May 20 13:51:34 17621 timeless 25 0 1143m 1.1g 2016 R 5.1 66.8 286:50.03 genxref May 20 13:51:35 :( May 20 13:51:35 is any of it cached, or is it all reindexed each time a query is done May 20 13:51:44 oh, the index is a pre thing May 20 13:51:50 that's what's taking 280+mins May 20 13:52:02 the pages you get are not cached, but do include caching directives May 20 13:52:12 i've considered adding a caching layer May 20 13:52:25 but... May 20 13:52:37 so index of the code base is pre generated, and when I looked at the qt source file, it was parsing it's index ? May 20 13:52:42 one of my mxr's is on a box which regularly runs out of disk space May 20 13:53:01 [source files] [ find index ] [ ident index ] May 20 13:53:10 [ file list] [ find index of that list of files ] May 20 13:53:28 when you load a file, it loads the source file, and uses the ident index to color identifiers May 20 13:53:40 when it encounters an "include" term, it uses the 'find index of that list of files' May 20 13:53:45 which involves running glimpse May 20 13:54:08 glimpse has a database against a single "file" with those 680k lines May 20 13:54:21 and each include file that has an include .... is traversed May 20 13:54:23 at that point May 20 13:54:35 not traversed, but it calls glimpse again May 20 13:54:42 which should use that database again May 20 13:54:51 glimpse has a server mode May 20 13:55:01 that's what I meant by traversed. May 20 13:55:01 and it's possible that using the server mode for the include stuff would help May 20 13:55:17 i'm afraid of "traversed" because i don't want you to think it reads the actual included file May 20 13:55:22 or the whole file list May 20 13:55:33 what does glimpse do ? May 20 13:55:53 -rw-r--r-- 1 timeless timeless 2252123 May 18 00:33 .glimpse_index May 20 13:55:57 -rw-r--r-- 1 timeless timeless 52411199 May 18 00:33 files May 20 13:56:27 glimpse should open its index and figure out which files match the include pattern May 20 13:56:46 the index is only 2.2mb (?) which shouldn't be /too/ painful May 20 13:57:30 * timeless_mbp should try using glimpseserver for this May 20 14:31:46 can someone help me install qt sdk May 20 14:32:06 http://pastie.org/969133 May 20 14:34:34 slaine: try http://mxr.moego.org/maemo6/source/qt/tools/qml/qmlruntime.cpp now ? May 20 14:34:43 i'm not sure if it counts as better or worse, but... May 20 14:35:36 massive improvement there I'd say May 20 14:35:57 ok :) May 20 14:36:01 i'll take that win May 20 14:36:08 that's using glimpseserver May 20 14:36:17 (it's the first time i can recall ever using glimpse server) May 20 14:36:23 can someone help me out with this error.getting this while installing the qt sdk http://pastie.org/969133 May 20 14:36:40 tried installing ssl.no difference May 20 14:38:56 anybody? May 20 14:49:31 cool, Mx has hit 1.0 for the meego release May 20 14:50:57 hmm? May 20 14:52:06 http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2010/05/20/mx-toolkit-1-0/ May 20 14:56:56 slaine: cool May 20 14:57:11 morn DawnFoster - feeling better today? May 20 14:58:16 stskeeps: quite a bit better, thanks. I left work early, went home and drank large quantities of tea with lemon and fell asleep at 9:30 :) May 20 14:58:40 hehe, sounds like a wise thing to do May 20 15:00:14 slaine: …. (–without-clutter-imcontext –without-clutter-gesture –without-startup-notification –without-dbus May 20 15:00:30 shouldn't those be —without-...? May 20 15:00:42 slaine: i wonder if netbook UX can run on ARM May 20 15:00:44 i mean, gles2 May 20 15:01:46 i know clutter has gles2 ability May 20 15:02:00 heya Stskeeps timeless_mbp DawnFoster May 20 15:02:07 hi May 20 15:02:12 lo th0br0 - had a good day? May 20 15:02:22 pretty much... May 20 15:02:28 school as always and a rather busy day :S May 20 15:02:53 DawnFoster: I did similar yesterday May 20 15:03:05 the tea and bed by 9:30 that is May 20 15:03:09 kinda looking forward to july - no classes/courses/etc until october May 20 15:03:14 was wiped out May 20 15:03:24 ^^ Stskeeps May 20 15:03:34 first time in my life where i don't have to do any classes at all May 20 15:03:41 (doing polish classes atm, and it feels like school all over again) May 20 15:04:00 In theory, I would have holidays in july, too but I'll be spending my time in the states in some uh... well, "junior scholars program" May 20 15:04:15 awe bless May 20 15:04:17 ;) May 20 15:05:09 awe bless` May 20 15:05:11 ? May 20 15:05:31 "junior scholars program" May 20 15:06:46 ah well, it's just some ... I see it as improving my english :) May 20 15:06:58 *as an opportunity for improving May 20 15:08:55 but anyway... May 20 15:09:06 why was the meeting postponed again yesterday? May 20 15:09:23 -ENOTIME ? :) May 20 15:09:57 th0br0: Imad and Valtteri wanted another week to work on a few things (project structure, roles, etc.) May 20 15:10:03 ah ok May 20 15:10:07 th0br0, (insert your favorite conspiracy theory here) May 20 15:10:13 :D May 20 15:10:42 I'm personally in favor of "because they were meeting with Redmond to port the UXes to WinMob 7". May 20 15:10:44 without the project structure and people defined in roles, it's hard to make progress on other decisions. May 20 15:11:06 GAN900: *gasp* how did you know :) May 20 15:11:42 :D May 20 15:11:45 GAN900: well MS had DUI first :) May 20 15:11:50 On the upside, Imad and Valtteri + key team members are meeting face to face here in Portland to get this sorted out Mon - Wed next week. May 20 15:11:53 Stray comment in a kernel patch, duh. May 20 15:12:01 * Jartza is afraid of win-mob. they're coming right for us! May 20 15:12:10 GAN900: you can be more conspiracy like than that.. meeting with novell which met with microsoft to get the .NET winmob 7 UI into MeeGo May 20 15:12:16 running on top of mono May 20 15:13:14 we should switch to Swing :) May 20 15:13:16 or talking about buying out novell and donating its resources to linux foundation to work solely on meego, novell seems to be opening up for bids May 20 15:13:39 * GAN900 loved the Maemo Software reaction when marketing figured out kernels in alpha SDKs could contain interesting information. May 20 15:14:00 GAN900, what was the reaction? May 20 15:14:06 did they react? May 20 15:14:23 tim May 20 15:14:33 "interesting information" ? May 20 15:14:33 GAN900: that you were single-handedly trying to bring down open source in nokia or how was it? May 20 15:14:33 timeless_mbp, yes May 20 15:14:42 Stskeeps, yeah, that one. May 20 15:14:59 When lardman and I were googling device model numbers May 20 15:15:11 th0br0, hardware specs. May 20 15:15:12 * timeless_mbp remembers the l10n strings in the sdk leaking most things May 20 15:15:28 haha, ok May 20 15:15:37 The icons were interesting too. May 20 15:18:52 * Stskeeps still remembers playing with proto n900 in copenhagen and was astonished how silent everyone kept regarding what they had seen May 20 15:19:12 (no ndas involved) May 20 15:20:44 bbl. May 20 15:22:38 slaine: fwiw, mxr is currently just trying to _index_ http://mxr.moego.org/repo2.meego.com/source/lxml-2.2.3/src/lxml/lxml.etree.c?raw=1 May 20 15:23:33 that one stupid file has 144756 lines … :( May 20 15:59:15 * Stskeeps is happy the n900 hw adaptation team irc meeting went well today May 20 16:03:05 * thiago is happy it went at all :-) May 20 16:07:44 judging by the logs/minutes, i'm getting more and more convinced there's a bug in various linux or keyboard stacks that makes it skip letters May 20 16:08:01 heh May 20 16:08:22 Stskeeps, you aren't talking about the browser, are you? May 20 16:08:32 Stskeeps, I have a bug that gives me frequent repeat letters - esp. the h May 20 16:08:57 (but there's also a Xorg issue that I'd hope would be fixed now 4 years later) May 20 16:09:09 ShadowJK: no, terminal May 20 16:09:48 dneary, that sounds like the Xorg bug I was thinking of May 20 16:10:48 ShadowJK, Cool! I thoughy it was a dirty keyboard May 20 16:10:56 But it happens enough to make me think otherwise May 20 16:10:59 iirc the issue is/was that Xorg adds its own timestamps to input events, so if X is blocked between keydown and keyup, the timestamps are > than repeat interval May 20 16:11:38 the kernel people blamed X for discarding the timestamps provided by kernel May 20 16:12:33 well I've never experienced keyboard issues in x-terminal in n900, in the browser sure May 20 16:13:37 ShadowJK, That could very well happen with me, I get lots of X blockages May 20 16:13:45 I think there's I/O or ram issues May 20 16:13:56 Yeah May 20 16:14:08 I/O is a massive, obnoxious bottleneck. May 20 16:15:12 yes May 20 16:16:01 I think PDF reader and the browser, on some sites, are just about the only things I've experienced as slow due to lack of cpu speed May 20 16:16:13 the rest is all I/O bottlenecked May 20 16:16:16 in my use **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 20 16:18:43 2010 May 20 17:01:35 watching google tv keynote....thinking about meego tv May 20 17:02:43 nod May 20 17:07:04 I am wanting to do work on a TV UX May 20 17:07:16 which we will use for LinuxMCE. May 20 17:10:15 TSCHAKeee: "a TV UX" would surely mean that you could be doing it now May 20 17:10:49 i am coming to grips with clutter and mx May 20 17:11:42 they rock May 20 17:11:51 they do indeed May 20 17:11:52 but I would have thought Qt was the future May 20 17:12:05 and until some more things are decided May 20 17:12:07 i will stick with clutter May 20 17:12:20 I'm looking at doing something similar for our set top box project May 20 17:12:36 slaine, you've seen the LinuxMCE project? May 20 17:12:46 not for a while May 20 17:13:00 ok May 20 17:13:09 if you've seen it in the last year, you've seen it May 20 17:13:31 i'm about to embark on a research project to juxtapose our stack atop MeeGo. May 20 17:14:11 right now, i have everyone including me building little toys etc in clutter May 20 17:14:11 yeah, you mentioned that recently. interesting idea May 20 17:14:21 it's good fun alright May 20 17:14:25 yes. May 20 17:14:45 but i am trying to get some concrete ideas upon which to build a plan May 20 17:14:52 because I do _NOT_ like waterfalling May 20 17:15:01 i've seen entire projects hit huge brick walls May 20 17:15:09 because they waterfalled to some theoretical point. May 20 17:15:21 without actually checking to see if it was somewhat doable. May 20 17:24:32 TSCHAKeee: very true May 20 17:26:49 anyway, time to head May 20 17:26:54 might be on later May 20 19:00:41 thiago, having connection probs? May 20 19:01:57 lcuk: no May 20 19:02:07 lcuk: I set my nickname to "thiago_clone" because I had the laptop in the office May 20 19:02:14 I changed back, but Nickserv didn't like me :-P May 20 19:02:24 heh nickserv is a bit mean May 20 19:04:15 * thiago_home adds his IP to the nickserv access list May 20 19:05:52 thiago_home: you should just group your nicks? May 20 19:06:26 I do May 20 19:06:35 but "thiago_clone" didn't exist May 20 20:54:45 Hmmm ... the meego obs has closed down access to the meego community obs.... oh, well... May 20 20:56:50 was it abused? May 20 20:57:37 no, private evaluation instance... just me and X-Fade May 20 20:58:48 DawnFoster: ping... you know you removed and re-added my blog feed.... well, the first bit worked ;) May 20 20:59:11 I think it's having a hard time with the blogger feeds. May 20 20:59:48 We're going to move over to another planet system, so hopefully it will work there. May 20 21:00:18 Maybe talk to Bergie and have him test your feed in the new planet just to make sure it's going to work there May 20 21:00:27 it's fine on maemo.org May 20 21:01:08 your feed has been added, but it refuses to pick up the posts even when I manually refresh May 20 21:01:28 May 20 21:01:43 i'll try to manually refresh it again May 20 21:02:22 no luck May 20 21:03:23 oh well May 20 21:04:01 thanks for trying for me :) May 20 21:06:08 happy to "help" May 20 21:10:50 kimitake: I missed your comment on my blog... May 20 21:11:16 tbh, it tends to be write-only ;) May 20 21:11:46 I don't know how you join the team - I think you just ask X-Fade. May 20 21:12:00 ping me when/if you read this May 20 21:16:24 DawnFoster, Hi! May 20 21:16:33 hey dneary May 20 21:16:44 good evening to mr dnreary May 20 21:16:51 :) May 20 21:16:52 o/ May 20 21:17:19 DawnFoster, Who in Intel might be interested in this: http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2010/05/19/gnome-developer-training-at-guadec/ ? May 20 21:17:48 DawnFoster, Go to GUADEC & get 2 days intensive training in Linux developer tools & community practices for only €1200 May 20 21:18:19 not sure. I can ask around. May 20 21:18:39 The interesting bit for me is the "learn to work with community projects, getting code upstream" - the social/political side of open source May 20 21:18:50 That, in the end of the day, people have the most trouble with May 20 21:18:54 to be honest, most of the people in our group have been working in the Linux kernel community & other OS communities for a while May 20 21:19:18 we have a lot of this expertise in house May 20 21:21:49 DawnFoster, Depends on the group, I bet... For sure the kernel guys are used to the kernel culture May 20 21:22:39 right, but we also have people contributing to tons of other open source projects. May 20 21:32:12 * TSCHAKeee feels masochistic, and attempts...again....to build a working meego with netbook ux May 20 21:51:23 dneary: mmm... who's going to translate wiki->drupal .... and how long is it going to add to the process to "get it right" May 20 21:51:41 * lbt favours "get it out" over "get it right" May 20 21:52:15 although maybe we should go for a big reveal on policy too... ;) May 20 21:53:08 lbt: better yet, we could have a secret policy that we don't reveal at all :) May 20 21:53:23 oh, wait... May 20 21:53:44 lbt: I'm with you on getting it out vs. finding a perfect solution May 20 21:54:14 hmm, how about "the wiki is authoritative until the drupal solution is in place"... May 20 21:55:21 lbt: what are we talking about in Drupal? A single page? how many pages? after we establish the policy, how often will it change? May 20 21:55:44 I'm guessing we can work something out & eventually get it in Drupal if that's what makes sense. May 20 21:56:09 http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ May 20 21:56:52 so, a billion pages (rough estimate) May 20 21:56:52 so it has the potential to be large... and it is likely to be quite dynamic for months to come May 20 21:57:05 so yes, that's about right ;) May 20 21:57:38 I think maybe a hundred is a realistic estimate May 20 21:58:01 I'd like to import fedora or suse policy as a starting point May 20 21:58:14 but we need to consider things like multi-user May 20 21:58:18 lbt, 1. Get it out May 20 21:58:26 dneary: yup... May 20 21:58:28 2. Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V May 20 21:58:48 (fix formatting as necessary) May 20 21:59:00 * lbt hasn't used drupal enough to know how links/tables/lists/headings convert May 20 21:59:06 [ctrl]+f, BLAH, [tab], meego, [ctrl+a] ;) May 20 21:59:10 Reasonably OK May 20 21:59:19 There's a wissywig editor May 20 21:59:25 eek May 20 21:59:43 I'm mainly worried that we're bikeshedding anyway May 20 21:59:47 You can copy HTML & paste it into the editor & it picks up ost of the formatting May 20 21:59:58 the real isssue is "the policy is mandatory" May 20 21:59:59 You're dead right - get it out May 20 22:00:16 "of course you can raise bugs against it" May 20 22:00:31 once we have a dictat on those points... May 20 22:00:32 You might reasonably anchor the discussion by saying "OK - once it's validated, we'll push it to the CMS. Now - what changes are needed to get it to validated? May 20 22:00:42 i think the larger the policy the harder it will be to find something sane that most are happy with. what about policy just being expanded from a couple of paragraphs based on tsg input May 20 22:01:04 dneary: no May 20 22:01:07 absolutely not. May 20 22:01:21 it's mandatory *now* on the wiki May 20 22:01:45 lcuk: let's start with input from maintainers / project leads (not TSG) May 20 22:01:48 nite all, sweet dreams May 20 22:01:48 and as a package owner if you don't like the bug, change the policy via the process May 20 22:01:59 we can escalate issues to the tsg, but not the starting point May 20 22:02:30 DawnFoster: agreed. The only thing I want from the TSG is : "the policy is mandatory" May 20 22:03:03 4 little words that mean so much ;) May 20 22:03:04 yeah May 20 22:03:08 lbt, Anyway, I agree that what's important with a draftiong of a policy is to concentrate on what it says, not where it's housed May 20 22:03:14 once you get buy-in from the maintainers / project leads, you'll be in a better position with the TSG May 20 22:03:34 that is exactly why I'm going to the TSG first May 20 22:03:36 night guys May 20 22:03:51 (and girls May 20 22:03:53 ) May 20 22:03:58 lbt: right - I was responding to lcuk's suggestion of taking it to tsg) May 20 22:04:00 im just thinking the policy discussion sounds just like license discussions many of us go through with our apps May 20 22:04:02 night dneary May 20 22:04:12 DawnFoster: ah, OK May 20 22:04:12 night dneary \o May 20 22:04:20 night May 20 22:05:19 * lcuk reads something and smiles May 20 22:07:29 lcuk: dance and the world dances with you :) May 20 22:07:47 lol DawnFoster i posted that already :p May 20 22:07:54 watching you on Twitter in parallel - like alternate reality or something May 20 22:08:14 iwas gonna write a third one May 20 22:08:32 "sing and the world tells you to STFU" (based on my beerbottles song) May 20 22:09:26 pizza hut ice cream is served too runny May 20 22:09:56 pizza hut serves ice cream? May 20 22:10:03 ml-mobile, sure May 20 22:10:08 they have an ice cream factory May 20 22:10:13 unlimited refills May 20 22:10:14 :D May 20 22:10:34 hence the watered down, runny ice cream :) May 20 22:10:40 they give warm bowls tho and the ice cream is really overly soft May 20 22:10:44 yeah May 20 22:10:55 jake loves it tho :D May 20 22:11:04 he was very reserved today only 1 bowl May 20 22:11:24 my boyfriend always scoops it and lets it sit until it gets runny - he likes it that way. May 20 22:11:31 it's gross imho :) May 20 22:12:25 yeah, jake had a giddy fit on the way home too :D he was giggling at everythin May 20 22:12:59 E:TOOMUCHSWEETS May 20 22:13:38 gotta love kids amped up on sugar May 20 22:13:56 tracy was just as bad May 20 22:13:57 ;) May 20 22:14:05 :) May 20 22:14:06 second portion of chocolate cake today May 20 22:14:30 (she *says* that on your birthday you don't put on weight so you can eat anything) May 20 22:14:34 i dont believe this personally May 20 22:14:37 i havent had cake or ice cream in like a year May 20 22:14:38 She's right May 20 22:14:49 very wise :) May 20 22:15:08 i have halved my sugar intake in the last month May 20 22:15:13 well, more than May 20 22:15:29 gone from 2 1/2 spoonfuls in coffee to 1 May 20 22:15:42 My weakness is the local fried pie cart: http://twitter.com/whiffies May 20 22:17:01 sounds gross, but it's delicious May 20 22:17:10 are those suckers deep fried? :O May 20 22:17:23 http://www.foodcartsportland.com/wp-images/2009/05/photo9-225x300.jpg May 20 22:17:39 the photo looks suspect May 20 22:17:47 yes May 20 22:17:53 mmmm deep fried May 20 22:17:55 deep fried - that's exactly what they look like May 20 22:18:06 they actually don't soak up much grease May 20 22:18:11 they only fry 3-4 min May 20 22:18:15 what delights are inside? May 20 22:18:17 * lbt reads -dev in amazement.... apparently writing the policy on a wiki is a security issue... May 20 22:18:30 * lbt goes to bed, clearly dreaming already May 20 22:18:32 lcuk, speaking of fried stuff... http://www.facebook.com/#!/album.php?aid=171014&id=716957114 May 20 22:18:33 I'm a bit of a health freak normally, but these are awesome May 20 22:18:34 lbt, WHAT?! May 20 22:18:46 I had blueberry pie last night May 20 22:18:55 actually: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=171014&id=716957114&l=4e3c848e48 ;) May 20 22:19:09 TSCHAKeee: "If we host final policy in the wiki, it can end up potentially becoming an unneeded security issue." May 20 22:19:17 also raspberry, chocolate, cherry, apple, coconut, peach, etc. for fruit pie May 20 22:19:23 lbt, oh jesus #@($#@($@ christ. May 20 22:19:30 * TSCHAKeee goes in there with a baseball bat May 20 22:19:34 they also have meat pies and vegetarian savory pies May 20 22:19:44 mmmm, pie May 20 22:20:00 * lbt knows where he'd shove a pie right now.... May 20 22:20:09 that May 20 22:20:11 :) May 20 22:20:13 is is mental May 20 22:20:20 that chappy on -dev ... May 20 22:20:57 * lbt hacks the debian policy to say 'root password must always be "fred"' May 20 22:20:59 WIN May 20 22:21:15 hahahaha May 20 22:21:29 no lbt, you dont want to get into an edit war about the correct capitalisation of your password May 20 22:21:44 we know "Fred" is the correct one May 20 22:22:00 Mr Dibbler to you May 20 22:22:25 Mine is “password„ May 20 22:22:26 :D May 20 22:22:28 I guess they can't say what boot loader is going to be used, that would be a security issue May 20 22:23:08 maybe put the ks files in rot13 May 20 22:23:11 THAT WOULD BE SECURE! May 20 22:23:12 it comes from assumed utilisation elsewhere May 20 22:23:12 :P :) May 20 22:23:41 TSCHAKeee, rot13 is obsolete, you should use rot260 May 20 22:23:57 somewhere on the site a link to policy saying "only enter here if you follow the policy [here]" May 20 22:24:03 inz, but KNOWING that rot260 would be used would be IN ITSELF a security rish! May 20 22:24:05 risk! :) May 20 22:24:20 TSCHAKeee: the argument is "anyone can edit a wiki so they might change the policy" ... which is classic heirarchical management thinking May 20 22:24:32 *epic-facepalm* May 20 22:24:40 "don't let people do what they're not allowed to do" May 20 22:24:42 lbt, i guesss they've never heard of version control, huh? May 20 22:24:48 "don't trust people" May 20 22:24:57 on a community project May 20 22:24:58 imagine! May 20 22:25:04 IT'S THE LATEST THING! May 20 22:25:05 have you ever tried to deploy a wiki in a corporate environment? May 20 22:25:10 lbt, repeatedly May 20 22:25:10 yes May 20 22:25:13 they add access control #1 May 20 22:25:15 i can tell you some stories May 20 22:25:25 fidelity wnated to put every item in its own namespace May 20 22:25:32 i do also (like you and others lbt) think having a fixed confirmed printable version of the known understood policy once created is a good thing. May 20 22:25:34 i had to spend hours explaining to them May 20 22:25:37 WHY THAT WAS A BAD IDEA May 20 22:26:01 lcuk: you know you can get wikipedia on a CDROM May 20 22:26:10 sure lbt May 20 22:26:12 and yes, I twisted Mediawiki to add ACLs the likes of which should NEVER May 20 22:26:14 have been added May 20 22:26:54 I'm not seriously saying the wiki is the right long term solution BTW.... but the underlying text->www technology is *so* not the point May 20 22:27:11 anyhow... bedtime May 20 22:27:23 night lbt May 20 22:27:33 night david May 20 22:27:35 and I got some django credits tonight... so maemo.org OBS tomorrow :) May 20 22:27:38 o/ May 20 22:27:50 yayz, later. May 20 22:28:09 lbt you need creditz o_O May 20 22:52:38 good morning May 20 23:24:14 kitty related type: http://www.meeyo.com May 20 23:24:17 typo May 20 23:47:55 hello May 21 01:22:39 Is the official release available today? May 21 01:41:18 * timeless_mbp ponders May 21 01:41:29 is there any remotely useful way to split repo.meego.com? :) May 21 01:41:45 * timeless_mbp is rather annoyed that indexing isn't done yet May 21 01:42:00 * timeless_mbp will probably have to write a merge tool this weekend May 21 02:22:31 * DocScrutinizer shows timeless_mbp the whip May 21 02:22:46 what should i do w/ it? :) May 21 02:23:08 no idea? May 21 02:23:24 I'll send you a few chicks to tell ya May 21 02:23:40 DocScrutinizer: do you do any programming? May 21 02:23:59 programming my own mess every day May 21 02:24:13 U know I'm a robot May 21 02:24:30 self organizing neural network May 21 02:27:25 sometimes a N900 or similar device is left over inside shield radius, so it gets organized as well May 21 02:27:32 or assimilated **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 21 02:59:57 2010