**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 01 02:59:57 2010
Jun 01 03:49:42 <rainID> anybody here?
Jun 01 03:51:40 <Guest21074> rainID: Sort of.
Jun 01 04:55:02 <Purpdank> do you guys think meego will beat android ?
Jun 01 04:56:35 <arjan> that question depends on how you see "beat"
Jun 01 04:56:35 <arjan> ;)
Jun 01 04:56:41 <arjan> marketshare... we're a bit behind in terms of time
Jun 01 04:57:00 <arjan> in terms of features/coolness ? we'll try ;)
Jun 01 04:57:20 <tyler_> As of this moment, the two operating systems are designed for different purposes.
Jun 01 04:57:37 <tyler_> MeeGo goes on netbooks, Android goes on phones.
Jun 01 04:57:38 <Purpdank> i mean beat as in popularity and revenues
Jun 01 04:57:52 <tyler_> Unless I'm missing something...
Jun 01 04:58:08 <Purpdank> but meego is planning on coming to mobile devices as well i thoguht
Jun 01 04:58:24 <Purpdank> and android is coming to tablets and netbooks no ?
Jun 01 04:59:06 <Stskeeps> yeah, but is android really a netbook OS? :P
Jun 01 04:59:19 <Stskeeps> it's more like a phone os moved to places it doesn't belong
Jun 01 04:59:43 <petteri> Purpdank: of course meego will beat android :)
Jun 01 04:59:54 <Purpdank> well i was thinking more about mobile devices, since meego is going to mobile devices, do you think it will be able to compete with the android os on mobile devices
Jun 01 05:00:10 <tyler_> It's probably too early to tell.
Jun 01 05:00:21 <Purpdank> true
Jun 01 05:00:22 <tyler_> Android has a huge market share.
Jun 01 05:00:39 <Purpdank> whats so special about meego though ? like sell me, why should i buy a meego phone over an android phone
Jun 01 05:01:14 <tyler_> And it's already starting to be sold by different OEMs already.
Jun 01 05:01:56 <tyler_> I like where MeeGo is headed though. It's UI layout is pretty well thought out.
Jun 01 05:02:16 <tyler_> It's just that, functionality wise, It's just not usable.
Jun 01 05:02:24 <Stskeeps> Purpdank: it's a real computer in your pocket, not just a smartphone :)
Jun 01 05:02:51 <Stskeeps> Purpdank: there's no such thing as a meego phone yet, so hard to argue
Jun 01 05:02:58 <Purpdank> true
Jun 01 05:03:11 <Purpdank> i think it will fail, i'd marry android if i could
Jun 01 05:03:28 <Stskeeps> why are we arguing then? you're a troll? :P
Jun 01 05:03:33 <Purpdank> :(
Jun 01 05:03:38 <Purpdank> no im not
Jun 01 05:03:40 <spide> you shouldn't just look at the sw. every phone is a individual. hw and sw combined.
Jun 01 05:03:49 <Purpdank> of course spide
Jun 01 05:03:54 <Termana> good morning Stskeeps
Jun 01 05:03:57 <tyler_> I didn't know it was an argument, I thought it was a debate.
Jun 01 05:04:16 <Purpdank> i didnt know it was a argument or debate, i was just curious :(
Jun 01 05:04:19 <Stskeeps> Purpdank: best thing to do is try out both phone OS'es when they're productized. i like meego cos it's real open source, not just available to OEMs ahead of time
Jun 01 05:04:39 <spide> and currently n900 is closest thing to a phone that I want.
Jun 01 05:04:41 <Stskeeps> for a consumer, meego will be the one empowering you, not taking away your abilities to do what you want with your device
Jun 01 05:05:06 <Purpdank> Stskeeps, you sound like some bs salesmen lol
Jun 01 05:05:07 <Stskeeps> as well as one qt api over several devices
Jun 01 05:05:07 <tyler_> How does Android take away your abilities to do what you want with your device?
Jun 01 05:05:19 <Stskeeps> Purpdank: nah, i just didn't have my coffee yet or meds ;p
Jun 01 05:05:27 <spide> I can't describe how cool it was when I was visiting a friend who had lost his tv remote and was stuck at 4:3 ar.
Jun 01 05:05:29 <Termana> tyler_, no root access on most Android phones for starters
Jun 01 05:05:31 <tyler_> I don't see how the company or how the software is restrictive in any way?
Jun 01 05:05:43 <tyler_> Yeah, but you can enable it.
Jun 01 05:05:46 <spide> i took out my trusty n900, downloaded the remote to irreco and fixed the situation :)
Jun 01 05:06:18 <Purpdank> what does the average consumer need root access for anyways ? you can enable root on android devices though
Jun 01 05:06:30 <Termana> tyler_, no you cannot just enable it on most Android phones
Jun 01 05:06:32 <tyler_> The point is, you can download the Android source and make your own. The carriers rolling out Android phones are the ones who disable root access.
Jun 01 05:06:56 <tyler_> Sorry, I'll rephrase. You can install a custom version of Android that has root enabled.
Jun 01 05:07:10 <Purpdank> i thought you could tyler_ , people make their own versions of the android os all the time and release them
Jun 01 05:07:19 <Purpdank> am i wrong?
Jun 01 05:07:25 <Termana> Exploits have been made available for the most popular Android phones that will allow you to have root access and ROM replacement abilities. Most of them this is not true for
Jun 01 05:07:35 <Stskeeps> and how did that work out of cyanogen? ;)
Jun 01 05:07:39 <Stskeeps> for
Jun 01 05:07:53 <Stskeeps> either way, this bends down to a simple thing, if you're a consumer looking at meego, go look at actual implementations of it
Jun 01 05:07:55 <tyler_> Yeah, and it's the carriers and manufacturers that do that. Not the android devolopers.
Jun 01 05:08:04 <Stskeeps> if you're a systems manufactorer, you look at meego system
Jun 01 05:08:07 <Purpdank> brb
Jun 01 05:08:37 <tyler_> Yeah, this isn't some philosophical open source vs. closed source issue. Whether or not MeeGo offers more functionality then Android is what's going to matter.
Jun 01 05:08:52 <tyler_> IMHO of course.
Jun 01 06:09:38 <gour> morning
Jun 01 06:09:50 <gour> is claws available for meego?
Jun 01 06:40:06 <BT> hi, need some help to run meego on beagleboard
Jun 01 06:41:08 <BT> all the files for rootfs are inside a dir meego-rootfs, why its so?
Jun 01 06:49:00 <Stskeeps> if it's the kernel and lib/modules, dump them on top of the n900 image
Jun 01 06:51:55 <BT> I have my linux kernel (uimahe) in FAT partition and rootfs in ext3 partition
Jun 01 06:52:10 <BT> I saw all the files are inside meego-rootfs dir
Jun 01 06:52:22 <BT> so I moved all to root dir
Jun 01 06:52:33 <BT> mount: mount point /sys/kernel/debug/ does not exist
Jun 01 06:52:42 <Stskeeps> following http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_the_Beagle ?
Jun 01 06:52:51 <BT> Unknown HZ value! (87) Assume 100.
Jun 01 06:52:59 <BT> and then stops
Jun 01 06:53:33 <tyler_> Heh, Meego on the Beagle... cute name.
Jun 01 06:58:35 <sivu> lo
Jun 01 07:24:27 <BT> today http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_the_Beagle  is website has been updated
Jun 01 07:24:40 <BT> I have followed what was on yesterday
Jun 01 07:25:07 <Stskeeps> might have been
Jun 01 07:45:28 * gour is thinking about dell's 1012 netbook to be used for meego...anyone using it here?
Jun 01 07:47:27 <thiago> I've only heard of samsungs and lenovos
Jun 01 07:47:38 <thiago> the important thing is to have a good Intel graphics card (not GMA950)
Jun 01 07:48:04 <gour> dell 1012 is on the list of supported devices
Jun 01 07:48:57 <gour> GMA 3150
Jun 01 07:52:08 <Stskeeps> morn slaine
Jun 01 07:52:15 <slaine> hey guys
Jun 01 07:53:16 <timeless_mbp> hi slaine
Jun 01 07:54:56 * timeless_mbp sighs
Jun 01 07:55:00 <timeless_mbp> wtf
Jun 01 07:55:11 <slaine> that was a one awesome weekend
Jun 01 07:55:17 * slaine is soooo tired
Jun 01 07:55:21 <timeless_mbp> http://mxr.moego.org/repo2.meego.com/source/post-build-checks-1.0/
Jun 01 07:55:33 <timeless_mbp> slaine: any idea why "patches" there is a symlink to '..' ?
Jun 01 07:55:51 * timeless_mbp grumbles
Jun 01 07:56:37 * timeless_mbp ponders
Jun 01 07:57:02 * timeless_mbp kicks post-build-checks
Jun 01 07:57:08 <timeless_mbp> that was incredibly rude of it
Jun 01 07:57:15 <timeless_mbp> sure, let's include the entire world
Jun 01 07:59:46 * timeless_mbp sighs
Jun 01 08:00:01 <timeless_mbp> sp3000: so.. that's the reason that mxr normally doesn't try to split things up
Jun 01 08:00:12 <timeless_mbp> it relies on find protecting itself from certain levels of stupidity
Jun 01 08:47:50 <gour> i know it may be too early considering that handheld ui is not released, but i wonder how much work is, in general, expected to have qt app working on desktop, netbook & handheld, i.e. having one common codebase?
Jun 01 08:48:51 <giedz> anyone /
Jun 01 08:49:02 <giedz> will meego run on marvel?
Jun 01 08:49:09 <Stskeeps> what type of processor is it?
Jun 01 08:49:22 <giedz> arm
Jun 01 08:49:25 <Stskeeps> gour: i'd say high, if you seperate model and views
Jun 01 08:49:29 <Stskeeps> if ARMv5, possibly, but you'll need GLES2 for a good experience
Jun 01 08:50:01 <giedz> thx
Jun 01 08:50:03 <gour> Stskeeps: you mean high level of common code?
Jun 01 08:51:21 <sivang> morning all
Jun 01 08:52:04 <sivang> Stskeeps: high meaninig, too much work?
Jun 01 08:52:10 <Stskeeps> gour: yes
Jun 01 08:52:16 <sivang> Stskeeps: but the SDK promoted code once, build on a bunch of places
Jun 01 08:52:24 <sivang> *is promoted with
Jun 01 08:52:32 <Stskeeps> sorry, didn't read your question completely
Jun 01 08:52:37 <sivang> Stskeeps: :)
Jun 01 08:52:41 <gour> Stskeeps: thanks. that is very encouraging to stay with meego
Jun 01 08:53:13 <Stskeeps> keep in mind the UI you'll need is different on various platforms
Jun 01 08:53:22 <Stskeeps> ie, touch ui isnt good for netbook ;)
Jun 01 08:53:42 <sivang> Stskeeps: I wonder if that can be automated as well
Jun 01 08:53:45 <sivang> Stskeeps: in the SDK
Jun 01 08:54:43 <sivang> Stskeeps: I mean, there's already automatic presentation suited for either screen size and device using the QT API, but didn't realize you need to write different UIs per input method.
Jun 01 08:55:04 <Stskeeps> well, desktop and touch interfaces traditionally differ in usage..
Jun 01 08:55:05 <sivang> Stskeeps: as in, on Maemo it has the hildon look, on MeeGo the meego look on symbian, the symbian look at.
Jun 01 08:55:18 <Stskeeps> but i'm just talking out of my ass
Jun 01 08:55:20 <sivang> Stskeeps: but if you just use the touch screen as a mouse...
Jun 01 08:55:20 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 01 08:55:22 <sivang> Stskeeps: :)
Jun 01 08:55:38 <sivang> Stskeeps: right, you can make the experience easier by providing more obvious touch areas for functionality
Jun 01 08:55:47 <sivang> Stskeeps: which you normally can slack off developing desktop ui
Jun 01 08:55:53 <gour> Stskeeps: sure...but most of the code could be hopefully shared
Jun 01 08:56:22 <sivang> gour: it can, yes.
Jun 01 08:56:32 <sivang> gour: we've seen a live deme of this last week.
Jun 01 08:56:35 <sivang> gour: very cool.
Jun 01 08:56:53 <gour> sivang: really? this is awesome
Jun 01 08:56:53 <sivang> gour: simulation and testing is also transparent to the user, including agains the device when plugged into the host where the SDK runs
Jun 01 08:56:57 <sivang> gour: it is.
Jun 01 08:57:24 <gour> sivang: i hope it will be the same considering we plan to use qthaskell
Jun 01 08:57:25 <sivang> gour: "we" hhe, I meant, "I" saw , when I was in the Developer workshop.
Jun 01 08:57:38 <sivang> gour: more into func programming?
Jun 01 08:57:39 <pupnik> why not build a UI that falls back to "no animations" when a GPU with compositing is not present
Jun 01 08:57:46 <gour> sivang: yep
Jun 01 08:57:47 <sivang> pupnik++
Jun 01 08:58:38 <pupnik> maybe someone with 15 knowledge can comment on feasability of that
Jun 01 08:58:45 <pupnik> QT knowledge
Jun 01 08:59:20 <sivang> pupnik: I'd extend this to more capabilities. http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-May/002504.html
Jun 01 08:59:28 <sivang> pupnik: "I have a dream."
Jun 01 08:59:31 <sivang> pupnik: :)
Jun 01 08:59:38 <pupnik> sivang: that could also make it network capable
Jun 01 08:59:47 <pupnik> ok reading
Jun 01 09:00:33 * pupnik joins sivang's army
Jun 01 09:00:37 <sivang> hehe
Jun 01 09:01:10 <pupnik> the UI concept is doable imo
Jun 01 09:01:17 <sivang> I think so as well.
Jun 01 09:02:36 <pupnik> every animation either loops or has a start and end point.  The UI framework could allow the dev to specify start state and end state (for e.g. a zoom) and if no GPU is present, the library will just draw end state
Jun 01 09:03:00 <pupnik> or something like that
Jun 01 09:03:07 <pupnik> maybe you can explain it better
Jun 01 09:04:11 <pupnik> an example everyone should be familiar with is how WMs (like in windows 98) to disable animations when dragging windows
Jun 01 09:04:26 <pupnik> s/to/can
Jun 01 09:04:53 <pupnik> maybe i should go to that akademy and make a stink about it
Jun 01 09:05:00 <sivang> yes, so easing curves could just be plain boring and appear at the start of the curve and then at the end.
Jun 01 09:05:06 <sivang> pupnik: stink?
Jun 01 09:05:11 <sivang> akademy is nice
Jun 01 09:05:15 <sivang> never been there though.
Jun 01 09:05:21 <pupnik> well you know, whine :)
Jun 01 09:05:24 <sivang> hehe
Jun 01 09:05:25 <sivang> ok
Jun 01 09:05:36 <sivang> pupnik: better provide a patch!
Jun 01 09:06:17 <pupnik> that is a good joke
Jun 01 09:06:49 <pupnik> still, it would be the only way to prove it
Jun 01 09:07:00 <pupnik> prove as in 'test'
Jun 01 09:07:12 <sivang> right
Jun 01 09:09:18 <BT> hi, just now itried meego on beagleboard, getting error mount: mount point /sys/kernel/debug/ does not exist
Jun 01 09:09:24 <Stskeeps> ordinary error
Jun 01 09:09:49 <BT> how do I start X? and whats the root password?
Jun 01 09:09:55 <sivang> a feature? =)
Jun 01 09:10:20 <sivang> me has to get thiz beagleboard
Jun 01 09:10:28 <BT> root password?
Jun 01 09:10:46 <gour> BT meego?
Jun 01 09:12:08 <BT> yes meego on beableboard
Jun 01 09:13:29 <BT> may be silly Q, how to extract meego-n900-open-armv7l-1.0.0.20100525.1-sda.raw in SD card rootfs?
Jun 01 09:16:52 <timeless_mbp> gour: in theory QML + whatever will save your world
Jun 01 09:17:01 <timeless_mbp> the reality is that no markup language works that way
Jun 01 09:17:06 <BT> anyone tried meego on beagleboard?
Jun 01 09:17:11 <timeless_mbp> compare Firefox with Firefox for Mobile
Jun 01 09:17:15 <timeless_mbp> they're similar, but they aren't the same
Jun 01 09:17:20 <timeless_mbp> it just doesn't make sense
Jun 01 09:17:28 <timeless_mbp> sure you can use Chromium e.g. on the n900
Jun 01 09:17:32 <timeless_mbp> but it's annoying
Jun 01 09:17:47 <gour> timeless_mbp: yeah, qml looks promising, at least with quick-creator to help designers
Jun 01 09:18:01 <timeless_mbp> gour: i've been using XUL for a decade now
Jun 01 09:18:15 <timeless_mbp> i think of QML as "yet another XML that came 15 years late"
Jun 01 09:18:22 <gour> heh
Jun 01 09:18:36 <gour> timeless_mbp: how late is meego?
Jun 01 09:18:38 <timeless_mbp> XML isn't wonderful,….
Jun 01 09:18:46 * gour nods
Jun 01 09:18:51 <thiago> timeless_mbp: except it's not XML
Jun 01 09:19:17 <timeless_mbp> thiago: nor was VB's markup
Jun 01 09:19:24 <timeless_mbp> nor was Delphi's
Jun 01 09:19:35 <timeless_mbp> but VB took over the world
Jun 01 09:19:52 <thiago> because it was easy
Jun 01 09:20:46 * timeless_mbp shrugs
Jun 01 09:20:47 <sivang> Retarted is the word :)
Jun 01 09:20:56 <timeless_mbp> coming 15 years late to a party is kinda bad
Jun 01 09:21:00 <sivang> it is
Jun 01 09:21:08 <sivang> your dancing partners are all gone
Jun 01 09:21:10 <sivang> :/
Jun 01 09:21:17 <timeless_mbp> i'm mean, welcome, glad you could (try to) make it
Jun 01 09:21:23 <sivang> heh
Jun 01 09:21:41 <sivang> timeless_mbp: are we going to trim down or cut/modify chromium or do they alrady have a mobile version?
Jun 01 09:21:54 <timeless_mbp> who is we?
Jun 01 09:21:58 <timeless_mbp> i'm working on fennec
Jun 01 09:22:01 <sivang> err
Jun 01 09:22:06 * gour prefers to use fennec
Jun 01 09:22:09 <sivang> we = meego community ?
Jun 01 09:22:11 <timeless_mbp> the n900 chromium is just desktop chromium
Jun 01 09:22:20 <timeless_mbp> i'm going to ignore chromium
Jun 01 09:22:41 <BT> pinging : any one tried meego on beagleboard?
Jun 01 09:22:55 <timeless_mbp> i'm assuming that since the n900 port looks just like desktop chromium that they don't have a mobile one
Jun 01 09:23:05 <sivang> timeless_mbp: but it uses webkit :=)
Jun 01 09:23:06 <timeless_mbp> because if they did, surely the porter would have been smart enough to package that instead
Jun 01 09:23:15 <timeless_mbp> sivang: which webkit
Jun 01 09:23:16 <sivang> timeless_mbp: indeed
Jun 01 09:23:26 <timeless_mbp> http://www.quirksmode.org/webkit.html
Jun 01 09:23:36 <sivang> timeless_mbp: well, at least I know (and I know nothing) that Chrome is using webkit no?
Jun 01 09:23:41 <timeless_mbp> > And remember [kids]:
Jun 01 09:23:41 <timeless_mbp> > There is no “WebKit on mobile!”
Jun 01 09:23:57 <timeless_mbp> sivang: webkit makes unix forking look simple
Jun 01 09:24:14 <sivang> haha
Jun 01 09:24:18 <sivang> without synchro?
Jun 01 09:24:19 <timeless_mbp> and i mean that as a family of sexually dysfunctional operating systems
Jun 01 09:24:19 <sivang> :)
Jun 01 09:25:01 <sivang> Well, I thought, with the unification and direction of QT on MeeGo, webkit sounded natural. Until you're forking example :)
Jun 01 09:25:12 <sivang> *your
Jun 01 09:25:45 <sivang> timeless_mbp: I attribute this to childhood trauma the unices suffered.
Jun 01 09:25:48 <timeless_mbp> actually, perhaps i should offer: http://www.smokeybear.com/vault/history_main.asp
Jun 01 09:26:01 <timeless_mbp> but anyway
Jun 01 09:26:07 <sivang> timeless_mbp: but for netbook there's chromium there no?
Jun 01 09:26:13 <sivang> the netbook UE
Jun 01 09:26:20 <timeless_mbp> chrome's out of process solution for webkit isn't the same as apple's
Jun 01 09:26:35 <timeless_mbp> and i can't figure out which one is the official upstream solution
Jun 01 09:26:40 <timeless_mbp> i'm 99% certain it isn't chrome's
Jun 01 09:26:45 <timeless_mbp> i'm unsure if it matches apple's
Jun 01 09:27:10 <Myrtti> I think I need more coffee
Jun 01 09:27:12 <timeless_mbp> actually, web browser ancestry is probably worse than unix ancestry
Jun 01 09:27:12 <sivang> timeless_mbp: so threading is the original approach ?
Jun 01 09:27:13 <BT> after starting the kernel, will there be any UI in the display? and whats the login username password?
Jun 01 09:27:16 <sivang> Myrtti: we bore you again?
Jun 01 09:27:27 <timeless_mbp> sivang: what i mean is that calling 'chrome' 'webkit'
Jun 01 09:27:40 <timeless_mbp> is ignoring the fact that 'webkit' is doing 'something else' for a 'key feature'
Jun 01 09:27:49 <sivang> timeless_mbp: ah , okay noted.
Jun 01 09:27:58 <timeless_mbp> everyone's moving to multiple processes, even firefox
Jun 01 09:28:07 <timeless_mbp> (4.0, fennec, whatever)
Jun 01 09:28:30 <BT> sivang : can you help to run meego on beagleboard
Jun 01 09:29:08 <Myrtti> sivang: no, I bore myself
Jun 01 09:29:27 <sivang> Myrtti: hehe
Jun 01 09:29:34 <sivang> BT: I wish I had one, sorry I don't
Jun 01 09:29:50 <timeless_mbp> oh wow, smokey the bear was in the public domain and was taken out of it
Jun 01 09:33:25 <sivang> timeless_mbp: how's smokey related to browser history ?
Jun 01 09:33:41 <troozers> Hi Guru's... can anyone point me in the direction of the MeeGo N900 install instructions..? cant seem to find them on the wiki
Jun 01 09:34:41 <sivang> troozers: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_native_install_on_N900 ?
Jun 01 09:35:00 <troozers> ta muchly sivang
Jun 01 09:35:02 <troozers> :)
Jun 01 09:35:22 <sivang> troozers: you're welcome
Jun 01 09:36:13 <timeless_mbp> sivang: oh, smokey was famous for saying "Remember...."
Jun 01 09:36:18 <timeless_mbp> "only you can prevent forest fires"
Jun 01 09:36:21 <sivang> sure
Jun 01 09:36:33 <sivang> I used to listen to it in Ithaca's College Radio
Jun 01 09:36:44 <timeless_mbp> i was pointing to the 'remember' from the quirksmode webkit comparison
Jun 01 09:36:52 <sivang> heh
Jun 01 09:36:52 <sivang> ok
Jun 01 09:37:59 <sivang> timeless_mbp: that comaprison is good
Jun 01 09:38:27 <sivang> timeless_mbp: I di prefer firefox(mozilla codebase) but chrom (or webkit?) is so fast with most of the stuff I do, at least on the desktop
Jun 01 09:39:21 <sivang> timeless_mbp: I have a desktop from 2004, chrome provides a quicker (not better! it drives me crazy with its caching when doing webdev so I switch to firefox/firebug)
Jun 01 09:39:33 <sivang> timeless_mbp: experience.
Jun 01 09:39:57 <sivang> timeless_mbp: on a latest machine at work I just firefox solely.
Jun 01 09:40:00 <Bostik> firebug + webdeveloper are invaluable, that much I agree with
Jun 01 09:40:18 * timeless_mbp can *not* figure out how to play smoke jumper :(
Jun 01 09:40:28 <sivang> Bostik: chrome sucks badly for web dev, at least for me it killed many hours when working with mod_rewrite and friends
Jun 01 09:42:20 <Bostik> sivang: for me chrome sucks for general use too, because it A) does not honour fontconfig, and B) does not allow any kind of content-policy (adblock+ and friends)
Jun 01 09:42:45 * timeless_mbp chuckles
Jun 01 09:42:49 * timeless_mbp got −1 fires
Jun 01 09:43:58 <Bostik> some of my other gripes are minor and subject to improvements in relatively near future
Jun 01 09:45:40 <Bostik> but completely separate font-rendering causes a visually unappealing experience, and the inability to blacklist stuff from ever even being loaded is a big problem
Jun 01 09:52:54 <troozers> hi all, i am following the n900 install instructions but can't find the .zImage kernel image.. any ideas?
Jun 01 09:54:20 <macron> I am trying to remember, does anybody know if there is a problem with ATI graphics cards?  I am trying to install Meego in a Lenovo T60p, it seems to think it installs, but I never get more than the blue Meego screen.
Jun 01 09:54:42 <macron> Alt-F1 does not provide a shell, so it must be something deeper than X.
Jun 01 09:55:59 <pupnik> for development there should be a way to boot to console
Jun 01 09:56:45 <thiago> macron: did you install the ATI opengl drivers before you tried to boot meego?
Jun 01 09:57:17 <macron> No, how can I install the drivers when I do not even get a shell?
Jun 01 09:57:45 <macron> I am misunderstanding something.....
Jun 01 09:57:46 <sx0n> macron, maybe you could boot to single user mode?
Jun 01 09:58:04 <thiago> macron: you need to install them before you bring up the UI
Jun 01 09:58:15 <thiago> meego requires OpenGL
Jun 01 09:58:29 <macron> OK, I have a DVD with the Meego Netbook image on it, when I start the installation procedure every goes well.
Jun 01 09:59:05 <macron> I restart the device at the end of the procedure, and it asks me for a user name, timezone etc.  then it restarts and I do not get a commandline.
Jun 01 09:59:40 <macron> So I guess this means that the image I have does not have the ATI opengl drivers.
Jun 01 09:59:51 <thiago> correct
Jun 01 09:59:57 <thiago> ATI proprietary drivers are not shipped
Jun 01 10:00:09 <pupnik> can you pass "single" to boot cmdline?
Jun 01 10:00:33 <macron> pupnik: how is that usually done?
Jun 01 10:01:10 <macron> I cannot seem to break into the boot procedure, (or I do not know the secret key combination).
Jun 01 10:02:05 <macron> thiago: are the ATI drivers available?
Jun 01 10:02:12 <thiago> macron: from ATI
Jun 01 10:02:14 <thiago> go talk to them
Jun 01 10:02:28 <macron> (Do you have their address?) :)
Jun 01 10:02:36 <tyler_> Relative to my interests since I want to install Nvidia drivers on MeeGo.
Jun 01 10:02:38 <pupnik> i thought there would be a boot command line
Jun 01 10:03:02 <pupnik> it still uses grub, no?
Jun 01 10:03:25 <thiago> macron: ati.com
Jun 01 10:03:37 <pupnik> "Edit the boot command line to remove "quiet" and
Jun 01 10:03:37 <pupnik> boot to single user mode.  Watch the boot progress for errors/hangs.  Check out
Jun 01 10:03:37 <pupnik> the dmesg log. If you get to single user mode, try startx.  if this fails
Jun 01 10:03:37 <pupnik> review the xorg log.
Jun 01 10:04:32 <tyler_> MeeGo is a Linux distribution like any other, there has to be a way to install the driver through a root shell.
Jun 01 10:05:03 <thiago> you can always use a rescue live-CD and install the thing
Jun 01 10:05:24 <macron> The issue is to get the root shell in the first place.  I never get a command prompt.
Jun 01 10:06:18 <troozers> anyone know where the MeeGo linux kernel image (.zImage) resides for the N900.. .doesn't seem to be where the ubiimg sits
Jun 01 10:06:34 <gour> how one can try to start meego from the shell? startx gives twb :-/
Jun 01 10:07:02 <thiago> gour: what did you download?
Jun 01 10:07:24 <gour> thiago: netbook-chromium image which i just installed under vbox
Jun 01 10:07:30 <pupnik> that sucks macron.  there should be a boot prompt somewhere
Jun 01 10:07:32 <thiago> then I don't know
Jun 01 10:07:51 <jarkko^> i get atleats X11 + twm inside vbox
Jun 01 10:07:58 <pupnik> or use a bootable cd/stick to edit the meego startup to go to console runlevel
Jun 01 10:08:04 <jarkko^> but no luck with the netbook UX
Jun 01 10:08:21 <tyler_> Yeah, try pupnik's advice.
Jun 01 10:08:26 <jarkko^> sudo telinit 3 && sudo startx seems work
Jun 01 10:10:22 <pupnik> how do you type that from a blue-screen-of-fail?
Jun 01 10:10:51 <jarkko^> i pressed esc to get into grub menu
Jun 01 10:10:59 <jarkko^> and then removed silent from the boot line
Jun 01 10:11:13 <jarkko^> after boot is complete i just press alt-f1 to get into console login
Jun 01 10:11:13 <pupnik> excellent..
Jun 01 10:11:17 <jarkko^> and then sudo telinit 3
Jun 01 10:11:41 <tyler_> Nice.
Jun 01 10:11:45 <sx0n> jarkko^, nice hacking ;)
Jun 01 10:12:07 <tyler_> Yeah, good job.
Jun 01 10:12:22 <BT> whats the root password in meego in beagleboard?
Jun 01 10:12:30 <pupnik> macron: heads-up
Jun 01 10:13:26 <tyler_> macron: Let us know how it turns out :) Good luck to ye.
Jun 01 10:14:03 <pupnik> BT: tried meego, rootme, thoughtpolice ?
Jun 01 10:14:16 <macron> Thanks for the advice.
Jun 01 10:14:19 <gaveen> Might've already seen: http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/01/meego-moorestown-powered-tablet-hands-on/
Jun 01 10:15:35 <sx0n> i want one... i am just surfing intel's motherboards from amazon.
Jun 01 10:15:54 <BT> password as thoughtpolice and rootme? both tried
Jun 01 10:16:13 <sx0n> meego?
Jun 01 10:16:21 <sx0n> ah ok.
Jun 01 10:16:48 <tyler_> I think MeeGo would work great on a tablet due to it's UI design and it's speed.
Jun 01 10:17:03 <sx0n> moorestown tablet looks like mirror.
Jun 01 10:17:25 <BT> password meego works thanks sx0n
Jun 01 10:17:35 <BT> how to start the UI?
Jun 01 10:18:23 * slaine is eager to see meego on a tablet
Jun 01 10:19:44 <pupnik> a tablet with niced bluetooth keyboard would look good on a coffeetable
Jun 01 10:20:56 <tyler_> Wouldn't you have to lean over to view it? Or would it be propped up at an angle?
Jun 01 10:21:44 <kaz2057> hi
Jun 01 10:21:52 <pupnik> needs a stand
Jun 01 10:22:42 <tyler_> What I would love to do with a tablet is to mount it on a wall and integrate it with a house wide media system.
Jun 01 10:22:51 <tyler_> That's some fancy dreaming though.
Jun 01 10:22:59 <kaz2057> anyone use gmail with evolution? i have problem with gmail and "mail preview" on myzone ...
Jun 01 10:23:42 <kaz2057> myzone alert me hotmail news just ... gmail not working ...
Jun 01 10:23:43 <kaz2057> anybody has my same problem?
Jun 01 10:24:01 <sx0n> tyler, i would piss off few ipad fans. :)
Jun 01 10:24:59 <pupnik> why dont we have laser projectors?  product liability/legal?
Jun 01 10:25:25 <pupnik> only rear-view are available
Jun 01 10:25:49 <tyler_> If the Ipad had more features then I would buy it.
Jun 01 10:26:04 <tyler_> Jobs firm stance on app store regulation and Flash makes me rage.
Jun 01 10:26:47 <troozers> ok that didn't seem to work... NAND flashed my N900, but just get tux in the top left and then all goes dark
Jun 01 10:29:51 <troozers> can someone confirm i've got the right files?
Jun 01 10:30:22 <jarkko^> http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_VirtualBox
Jun 01 10:30:25 <troozers> got the .ubiimg from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/0.9.80.1.20100330.1/n900/images/meego-codedrop-arm-n900/
Jun 01 10:30:30 <jarkko^> i added my instructions there
Jun 01 10:30:45 <jarkko^> or more like notes
Jun 01 10:30:55 <troozers> and the linux kernel image from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/images/meego-n900-open-armv7l/
Jun 01 10:33:13 <macron> pupnik: Thanks for the editing tip for the boot command line (hitting Esc got me to the grub menu, and tab let me do the editing).
Jun 01 10:33:49 <macron> Any way to get the ATI opengl drivers using the commandline?
Jun 01 10:33:52 <sivang> timeless: you know limi ?
Jun 01 10:34:54 <pupnik> macron: thank you also - i am learning from people's problems
Jun 01 10:35:00 <tyler_> Can't you wget?
Jun 01 10:35:19 <pupnik> is wget installed? ;)
Jun 01 10:35:38 <tyler_> Good point - is it?
Jun 01 10:35:52 <macron> wget should be there.
Jun 01 10:36:35 <tyler_> Emphasis on 'should.'
Jun 01 10:37:23 <tyler_> But you should be able to wget the binary blob and install it from the shell... unless I'm mistaken.
Jun 01 10:38:33 <tyler_> Lol, I'm going to have to deal with this problem when I install Nvidia drivers.
Jun 01 10:38:38 <kaz2057> but repo is meebo just? or are there external once?
Jun 01 10:38:44 <macron> wget is there, the destination is the next step
Jun 01 10:39:10 <tyler_> Hop onto the ati website and find a download link.
Jun 01 10:40:27 <tyler_> macron: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx
Jun 01 10:41:32 <pupnik> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=meego_10_perf&num=1   meego performance vs ubuntu, moblin, fedora
Jun 01 10:41:52 <vgrade> slaine, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUiSnITKeRY, meego on a tablet!
Jun 01 10:42:13 <slaine> vgrade: sweet, thanks
Jun 01 10:42:33 <pupnik> same device with OMAP please
Jun 01 10:42:41 <slaine> joggler, lolk
Jun 01 10:42:50 <slaine> thats not a tablet
Jun 01 10:42:50 <pupnik> as the intel
Jun 01 10:43:31 <vgrade> slaine, it is if you chop the stand off :)
Jun 01 10:43:50 <slaine> and carry around a car battery
Jun 01 10:43:55 <vgrade> :)
Jun 01 10:44:16 <tyler_> vgrade: A netbook can become a tablet if you cop the keyboard off :)
Jun 01 10:44:30 <tyler_>  /s/cop/chop
Jun 01 10:45:22 <vgrade> tyler, only if you have as ts
Jun 01 10:45:43 <tyler_> I believe there are some produced actually.
Jun 01 10:45:55 <tyler_> I would have to look it up, but I could be wrong.
Jun 01 10:46:08 <macron> tyler_: The support site points to the Lenovo support site that only lists Windows for the T60/T60p.
Jun 01 10:46:19 <vgrade> tyler, any supported by meego 1.0?
Jun 01 10:47:07 <tyler_> vgrade: I was lightly joking.
Jun 01 10:47:21 <tyler_> vgrade: I'm sure whatever was in that link was interesting and informative.
Jun 01 10:47:48 <kakashi_> is anybody using meego for n900?
Jun 01 10:48:17 <tyler_> macron: Is that the name of the card or of your laptop (I know nothing about ATI card models)
Jun 01 10:49:12 <kaz2057> nobody explain me doubts about repo?
Jun 01 10:49:32 <Tumi_> kakashi_: I tried briefly the pre-release
Jun 01 10:49:49 <Tumi_> not much fun without UI though :/
Jun 01 10:49:55 <kakashi_> hmm...
Jun 01 10:50:47 <tyler_> macron: http://vizzzion.org/?id=t60 <--- Maybe relevant to your interests?
Jun 01 10:51:26 <kakashi_> so what are the plans of porting meego to n900
Jun 01 10:52:23 <Stskeeps> kakashi_: it's supposed to be the ARM reference device,so
Jun 01 10:53:28 <kakashi_> hmm... well, actually I am new to meego, but would sure like to contribute on the porting issues (ofcourse I am joining the mailing lists)
Jun 01 10:54:03 <Stskeeps> kakashi_: if you want to contribute to N900 stuff, start out at wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900
Jun 01 10:57:35 <vgrade> Will the new ivi driver patch in here support GMA500 it looks to have poulsbo code? http://meego.gitorious.org/~xinyunliu/meego-os-base/xylius-kernel-source/trees/master
Jun 01 10:58:37 <visz> how can you turn on backlight on n900 arm meego?
Jun 01 10:59:18 <kakashi_> Stskeeps, is there a specific thread for the meego - n900 fork?
Jun 01 10:59:30 <kakashi_> I mean the mailing list
Jun 01 10:59:44 <Stskeeps> kakashi_: no, meego-dev mailing list, our prefix is N900
Jun 01 10:59:55 <Stskeeps> ie, most of our mails start with N900
Jun 01 11:00:05 <Stskeeps> vgrade: i kinda hope it will
Jun 01 11:01:02 <Stskeeps> kakashi_: but the page should list our collaboration spaces, mailing list, gitorious, irc, etc
Jun 01 11:05:14 <vgrade> stskeeps, I'll have a go later, have stalled a bit on the IEGD version, opengl text just comes up as blocks
Jun 01 11:06:57 <kakashi_> Stskeeps, awesome, got it
Jun 01 11:13:34 <gaveen> Engadget article now had a video too. http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/01/meego-moorestown-powered-tablet-hands-on/
Jun 01 11:13:56 <gaveen> *has
Jun 01 11:15:57 * Stskeeps ponders idly
Jun 01 11:21:18 * thiago thinks he needs to order some of those for the office
Jun 01 11:21:24 <thiago> tmikola: http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/01/meego-moorestown-powered-tablet-hands-on/
Jun 01 11:21:28 <thiago> tmikola: how do we order those? :-)
Jun 01 11:22:13 <BT> hi, now I am able to run meego on beagleboard
Jun 01 11:22:23 <tyler_> Has anyone had any success with installing codecs in MeeGo?
Jun 01 11:22:25 <thiago> BT: take a look at the wiki page on beagleboard
Jun 01 11:22:41 <BT> nerworking is working also, want to install some package
Jun 01 11:23:30 <BT> which tool is used to install package, is it zipper?
Jun 01 11:23:36 <tmikola> thiago: Buy one and make a travel expense claim :)
Jun 01 11:24:15 <thiago> tmikola: the larger-voltage battery worked
Jun 01 11:30:55 <Vortiago> BT, yum is used
Jun 01 11:44:28 <TurboVomit> hi meego users
Jun 01 11:45:14 <TurboVomit> meego don't work with me
Jun 01 11:45:51 <TurboVomit> bug in initramfs /init detected. Dropping to a shell . Good luck !
Jun 01 11:46:31 <BT> now xterm is running in beagleboard, want to install some package, any help I can get?
Jun 01 11:46:32 <TurboVomit> bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): inapropriate ioctl for device
Jun 01 11:46:54 <TurboVomit> bash: no job control in this shell
Jun 01 11:46:59 <TurboVomit>  :(
Jun 01 11:47:08 <TurboVomit> what is ioctl ?
Jun 01 11:49:22 <Vortiago> BT, yum install 'package'
Jun 01 11:51:45 <BT> i tried zypper in xfce-utils but some problem
Jun 01 11:52:15 <Stskeeps> BT: edit /etc/yum.repos.d to point to the arm repos instead
Jun 01 11:52:16 <TurboVomit> hey, there is an error on the mabsite
Jun 01 11:52:17 <Stskeeps> (check the urls out)
Jun 01 11:52:32 <TurboVomit> website
Jun 01 11:52:45 <TurboVomit> download the netbook version give you a chromonium netbook
Jun 01 11:52:51 <TurboVomit> is it normal?
Jun 01 11:53:21 <BT> just tried yum command, says not found
Jun 01 11:57:21 <TurboVomit> 2 hours to download meego img ...
Jun 01 11:57:24 <TurboVomit> boring
Jun 01 11:58:00 <TurboVomit> i live in the past
Jun 01 12:02:50 <hircus> hello -- some of us have been having problems connecting to 802.1X WiFi networks -- http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=2640 . Is there any known fix?
Jun 01 12:05:53 <frals> love how the intel meego tablet is showing year as 1970 in the engadget pictures
Jun 01 12:06:50 <Stskeeps> i don't understand the problem of adding a rtc sometimes
Jun 01 12:06:51 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 01 12:07:47 <vgrade> turbovomit, have you tried the mirror at kernel.org, I got 5.4MB/sec yesterday
Jun 01 12:09:15 <suneel> hi guys suneel herre
Jun 01 12:09:42 <suneel> i have some doubts re garding the latest release of netboox ux of meego..
Jun 01 12:09:47 <suneel> can any body help me out
Jun 01 12:10:42 <leinir> Most likely not... You've not told us what they are, and i don't know that anybody here's a mind reader ;)
Jun 01 12:10:44 <Myrtti> not before you cough up your real question
Jun 01 12:11:15 <suneel> :)
Jun 01 12:11:43 <suneel> firefox browser (fennec) does it support webgl
Jun 01 12:12:16 <Myrtti> that's not a question
Jun 01 12:13:04 <suneel> i  studies some where ---Firefox(Fennec Browser supports  WebGL) in Maemo 5.
Jun 01 12:13:25 <sx0n> suneel, you can try wegl demos with that, i kind of see one working.
Jun 01 12:14:27 <sx0n> but that's hardly a #meego issue :)
Jun 01 12:14:32 <suneel> i didnt get you..
Jun 01 12:15:55 <suneel> can you please explain clearly....sxon...?
Jun 01 12:16:22 <Myrtti> suneel: you didn't explain yourself too clearly
Jun 01 12:16:58 <suneel> may be..
Jun 01 12:17:07 <suneel> but you can help me out
Jun 01 12:18:31 <pupnik> Google to ban windows PCs from corporation :)
Jun 01 12:27:15 <sivang> pupnik: heh
Jun 01 12:27:49 <sivang> what a foundation.
Jun 01 12:28:06 <sivang> webgl is originating from moz, how appropriate :)
Jun 01 12:35:28 <TSCHAKeee2> tyler_: http://www.linuxmce.org/
Jun 01 12:35:41 <TSCHAKeee2> tyler_: look at that, sometime. We've been doing it.
Jun 01 12:41:37 <jarkko^> i added also info on installing vbox guest additions to wiki
Jun 01 12:43:42 <tyler_> TSCHAKeee2: Wait, what was that in response to?
Jun 01 13:01:44 <sx0n> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVIKYF7MOzU
Jun 01 13:02:00 <sx0n> another meego video
Jun 01 13:22:37 <BT> looks some help for meego on BB, zypper search is ok   | xfce-utils | package | 4.6.1-9.1 | armv7l | MeeGo Extra - ARM
Jun 01 13:22:49 <BT> but cant install
Jun 01 13:25:58 * CosmoHill dances cos he's just finished his university year
Jun 01 13:26:37 <Stskeeps> so what are you contributing to meego over the summer?
Jun 01 13:26:38 <Stskeeps> ;)
Jun 01 13:28:03 <GAN900> Ooh, I have an answer for that one! A dose of realist rationality. ;)
Jun 01 13:28:10 <GAN900> i.e., trolling :P
Jun 01 13:29:09 <Termana> :P
Jun 01 13:29:26 <CosmoHill> http://machall.com/view.php?date=2002-12-23 I'm just posted his on the assignment forum for c++ programming
Jun 01 13:29:42 <CosmoHill> since it seems to describe our assignment
Jun 01 13:31:48 <TSCHAKeee2> tyler_: you were saying about using tablets with a whole house media system
Jun 01 13:31:51 <TSCHAKeee2> tyler_: been there, done that.
Jun 01 13:32:18 <TSCHAKeee2> tyler_: :)
Jun 01 13:34:11 <CosmoHill> speaking of tablets, I saw two guys comparing ipads
Jun 01 13:34:22 <CosmoHill> no idea why, they're identical and you can't use them in the exam
Jun 01 13:37:42 <GAN900> Nokia is gonna need to step up for the end of the year
Jun 01 13:38:21 <GAN900> What with A4s in the iPhone 4G and the dual-core 1.2GHz Snapdragon coming.
Jun 01 13:38:23 <smoku> TSCHAKeee2: wanna share some insight, or are you just bragging out? :>
Jun 01 13:42:16 <tyler_> TSCHAKeee2, Oh, I knew it was possible. I was just sayin' that a tablet would probably be a cheap/cool way to implement a control panel for it.
Jun 01 13:42:30 <Termana> smoku, I believe TSCHAKeee2 is the developer for a home media integration program
Jun 01 13:42:47 <Termana> Details are sketchy for me at the moment since its late at night, but I'm sure he can fill in the blanks
Jun 01 13:42:49 <Termana> :P
Jun 01 13:47:47 <gour> what is the name of the meego's kernel source package?
Jun 01 13:47:56 <Stskeeps> kernel
Jun 01 13:47:56 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 01 13:48:23 <CosmoHill> I don't think the source is separated from the binary
Jun 01 13:48:33 <TSCHAKeee2> tyler_: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2013509531300772806
Jun 01 13:48:53 <TSCHAKeee2> tyler_: that is part 2, showing the tablet running, part 1, shows the physical tablet.. in this case, I used a DT Research WebDT 366
Jun 01 13:49:02 <lucazade> hi! gma500 support??  http://meego.gitorious.org/~xinyunliu/meego-os-base/xylius-kernel-source/commits/master
Jun 01 13:49:46 <TSCHAKeee2> tyler_: but our orbiter software runs on TONS of stuff, including phones, Nokia 770/N800/810/900, Cisco 7970, any windows or linux PC, symbian and j2me phones, etc.
Jun 01 13:50:10 <TSCHAKeee2> tyler_: work is starting to replace orbiter with something much better, but for now, this is what is used.
Jun 01 13:50:21 <CosmoHill> TSCHAKeee2: doesn't want to play for me :(
Jun 01 13:50:21 <TSCHAKeee2> tyler_: but as i said, been there, done that. ;)
Jun 01 13:50:33 <TSCHAKeee2> *blink* wha?
Jun 01 13:50:38 <TSCHAKeee2> that's videos.google.com
Jun 01 13:50:54 <CosmoHill> now it is
Jun 01 13:50:58 <gour> Stskeeps: hmm...somehow i do not find kernel sources... /usr/src/kernels is empty
Jun 01 13:51:16 <Stskeeps> gour: ah, it's in the srpm i guess, and headers are in kernel-whatever-devel
Jun 01 13:51:31 <CosmoHill> TSCHAKeee2: that you speeking?
Jun 01 13:51:40 <TSCHAKeee2> CosmoHill: yes.
Jun 01 13:51:42 <CosmoHill> ooo
Jun 01 13:52:00 <gour> Stskeeps: i'm not famliar with yum (using archlinux)..how to install kernel src?
Jun 01 13:52:24 <Stskeeps> gour: yumdownloader --source kernel, maybe
Jun 01 13:52:37 <gour> let me try..
Jun 01 13:53:17 <CosmoHill> did you just turn our house lights off and one?
Jun 01 13:53:19 <CosmoHill> on?>
Jun 01 13:53:58 <TSCHAKeee2> CosmoHill: yes.
Jun 01 13:54:03 <CosmoHill> :o
Jun 01 13:56:29 * CosmoHill watches meego explode on this laptop
Jun 01 13:57:08 <Termana> Do you guys live together? :P
Jun 01 13:57:35 <Termana> You know so when I come to slay you I know I can get 2-in-1
Jun 01 13:57:36 <CosmoHill> I think i have an issue with my sd card
Jun 01 13:57:38 <Termana> :D
Jun 01 13:58:34 <vgrade> lukazade, just building it now for my joggler
Jun 01 14:00:45 <CosmoHill> D-bus got up to error 10000 by the time I got my laptop to hard shutdown
Jun 01 14:02:43 <CosmoHill> aaah
Jun 01 14:02:46 <CosmoHill> it's a human
Jun 01 14:03:37 * thiago is a human
Jun 01 14:04:09 <CosmoHill> if anyone has a reason not to burn meego to a DVD, you're to late
Jun 01 14:06:15 <gour> ok. i dl-ed kernel src rpm...how to install it now?
Jun 01 14:06:44 <arjan> what do you want with it
Jun 01 14:06:53 <arjan> if all you want is to change a few config options and build it again
Jun 01 14:06:54 <arjan> rpm -i it
Jun 01 14:06:59 <arjan> go to ~/rpmbuild/
Jun 01 14:07:06 <arjan> in SOURCES you'll find the config files to edit
Jun 01 14:07:11 <arjan> in SPECS you find kernel.spec
Jun 01 14:07:17 <arjan> which you can buid with
Jun 01 14:07:20 <arjan> rpmbuild -ba kernel.spec
Jun 01 14:07:28 <arjan> and it'll pick up the things from SOURCES
Jun 01 14:07:31 <gour> arjan: i need kernel sources available
Jun 01 14:07:45 <arjan> for?
Jun 01 14:07:54 <arjan> don't say "for building modules" please
Jun 01 14:07:59 <arjan> since then you're on the wrong track :)
Jun 01 14:08:08 <Stskeeps> if for building modules, grab kernel-something-devel?
Jun 01 14:08:40 <arjan> yup
Jun 01 14:08:48 <CosmoHill> hey arjan and Stskeeps
Jun 01 14:08:49 <gour> ahh...i'm playing with vbox stuff
Jun 01 14:09:22 <arjan> if all you want is to build modules, use kernel-netbook-devel
Jun 01 14:09:27 <CosmoHill> yum search kernel ?
Jun 01 14:09:36 <gour> ok
Jun 01 14:09:38 <arjan> the kernel sources are actually utterly useless for doing that
Jun 01 14:11:52 <vgrade> arjan, http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/xylius-kernel-source, PowerVR gfx driver
Jun 01 14:12:18 <arjan> ?
Jun 01 14:12:30 <Stskeeps> vgrade: chances are it's 'just' IEGD stuff
Jun 01 14:12:42 <Stskeeps> they were supposed to use meego 1.0 as a PoR according to a public site
Jun 01 14:12:53 <vgrade> does not look like, building now
Jun 01 14:12:59 <arjan> could also be the mrst driver
Jun 01 14:13:06 <arjan> note that this is just the modesetting and memory manager
Jun 01 14:13:12 <arjan> none of the actual graphics stuff is in there
Jun 01 14:13:22 <vgrade> no the its not the same patch as the moorsetown one
Jun 01 14:14:10 <Stskeeps> vgrade: it looks quite similar to a traditional SGX driver.
Jun 01 14:15:19 <vgrade> stskeeps, will report back after its built
Jun 01 14:15:46 <dneary> Is there some MeeGo IRC meeting on today?
Jun 01 14:16:09 <Stskeeps> hmm, not sure
Jun 01 14:16:32 <Stskeeps> June 1, 19:00 UTC: Community Office Meeting
Jun 01 14:16:47 <bergie> ah
Jun 01 14:17:02 <bergie> again quite late for here :-/
Jun 01 14:17:06 <CosmoHill> agenda?
Jun 01 14:18:14 <gour> running 'startx' from meego terminal brings up twm. what should bring meego ui up?
Jun 01 14:18:25 <CosmoHill> try "init 5"
Jun 01 14:18:31 <CosmoHill> it might crash your computer tho :/
Jun 01 14:18:46 <gour> don't worry about itz
Jun 01 14:19:41 <Termana> http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings still shows 18th of May so obviously thats not the current agenda :P
Jun 01 14:19:48 <gour> huh...only (old) respawning too fast message :-/
Jun 01 14:20:30 <CosmoHill> shame there isn't a way for me to record my laptop screen
Jun 01 14:24:41 <lucazade> vgrade: is a new driver for poulsbo?
Jun 01 14:30:07 <CosmoHill> arjan: what's the dev package
Jun 01 14:30:12 <CosmoHill> for gcc binutils, make etc?
Jun 01 14:31:55 <odin_> why is it "MEEGO-IL10N" ?  L10N = Localization  I18N = Internationalization
Jun 01 14:44:12 <gour> is anyone playing with running meego under vbox? i managed to build guestadditions but have some problem with running services
Jun 01 14:51:05 <bogie11> gour: what kind of problems?
Jun 01 14:54:20 <CosmoHill> gour: I just saw a vmware graphics driver
Jun 01 14:55:32 <CosmoHill> if meego is i586, why is glibc i686?
Jun 01 14:56:01 <thiago> optimisations
Jun 01 14:56:08 <thiago> and meego is supposed to be ia32-on-ssse3
Jun 01 14:58:11 <odin_> Hmmm no not really, just Intel's spin
Jun 01 14:58:49 <thiago> _supposed_ to be
Jun 01 14:59:42 <odin_> I just hope it is compatible with desktop ia32 linux, otherwise there might be a rift
Jun 01 14:59:51 <CosmoHill> where is xorg.conf?
Jun 01 15:00:00 <odin_> often /etc/X11/
Jun 01 15:00:01 <thiago> CosmoHill: X doesn't need a config file
Jun 01 15:00:06 <thiago> it can work without one
Jun 01 15:00:14 <CosmoHill> hmm
Jun 01 15:00:19 <CosmoHill> so how to I load the nvidia model?
Jun 01 15:00:21 <CosmoHill> module*
Jun 01 15:00:27 <thiago> create the xorg.conf file
Jun 01 15:01:53 <CosmoHill> hey DawnFoster
Jun 01 15:02:05 <CosmoHill> turned out it was my SD card that was causing meego to fail to boot
Jun 01 15:02:12 <DawnFoster> Hey CosmoHill
Jun 01 15:02:15 <DawnFoster> aha
Jun 01 15:02:24 <CosmoHill> burnt it to DVD and it worked
Jun 01 15:02:36 <CosmoHill> well I say worked.....as good as you can get for a non-supported device
Jun 01 15:02:47 <Stskeeps> morn DawnFoster - any agenda on for CO meeting tonight?
Jun 01 15:02:59 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps - We're going to cancel it
Jun 01 15:03:06 <Stskeeps> makes sense
Jun 01 15:03:09 <DawnFoster> there wasn't anything proposed for the agenda
Jun 01 15:03:19 <Stskeeps> no agenda - no reason for meeting :)
Jun 01 15:03:24 <DawnFoster> and those of us in the us are still recovering from a 3 day holiday weekend :)
Jun 01 15:03:28 <DawnFoster> exactly!
Jun 01 15:03:28 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jun 01 15:03:33 <odin_> all too busy, playing with MeeGo v1.0 :)
Jun 01 15:03:51 <GAN900> "Recovering", eh?
Jun 01 15:03:53 <DawnFoster> stskeeps: btw, any chance I can get you to run those IRC stats for May (or send me a link if you already ran it) :)
Jun 01 15:04:18 <Termana> You know, I don't think jet lag applies to 3 day weekends :P
Jun 01 15:04:18 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: yes, but tomorrow morning - whats the deadline?
Jun 01 15:04:23 <DawnFoster> GAN900: I'm afraid to tackle my email :)
Jun 01 15:04:51 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: meego slate ui seems to be well received by media, at least
Jun 01 15:04:56 <GAN900> Retail makes for sucky 3-day weekends.
Jun 01 15:04:57 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps: I'm still gathing other data, so sometime tomorrow if you have time?
Jun 01 15:04:57 <Stskeeps> (pre alpha)
Jun 01 15:05:04 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: yep
Jun 01 15:05:58 * Stskeeps goes write a postit for his screen
Jun 01 15:06:14 <DawnFoster> thanks
Jun 01 15:06:28 <gour> CosmoHill: but that won't help me with vbox, right?
Jun 01 15:06:38 <CosmoHill> probably not
Jun 01 15:06:47 <CosmoHill> I'm trying to get twm under nvidia
Jun 01 15:07:16 <CosmoHill> I've killed my keyboard and mouse :(
Jun 01 15:07:40 <gour> i can use twm under vbox, but meego is not meant for such UI :-D
Jun 01 15:07:59 <CosmoHill> well I figure if I can get twm under nvidia and can get the ui under it
Jun 01 15:08:21 <gour> how would one call meego ui from within twm?
Jun 01 15:08:43 <CosmoHill> not got that far
Jun 01 15:09:14 <gour> i'm not sure which command to invoke? init5 in the terminal just spits 'respawning too fast' error
Jun 01 15:09:30 * CosmoHill looks at his beige  
Jun 01 15:09:36 <CosmoHill> I swear it was white when i put it again..
Jun 01 15:10:18 <sx0n|home> gour: you could start x with xinit and start other wm iirc
Jun 01 15:11:06 <gour> sx0n|home: yeah, but what should start 'meego ui' ?
Jun 01 15:11:45 <gour> sx0n|home: btw, the error is mission 'daemon' command in vbox services...i've to go out. bbs to resume my attempts
Jun 01 15:13:09 <sx0n|home> gour: dunno. there should be some sort of binary, maybe configured in etc/X11 somewhere. maybe you need some extra packages installed using yum
Jun 01 15:13:20 <sx0n|home> i have not yet tested.
Jun 01 15:13:47 <sx0n|home> or build meegotouch from gitorious
Jun 01 15:13:49 <odin_> ls
Jun 01 15:13:58 <sx0n|home> dd
Jun 01 15:14:11 <arjan> gour: uxlaunch is what starts teh GUI session
Jun 01 15:14:12 <odin_> opps have not got used to the Linux dual head :(
Jun 01 15:14:15 <CosmoHill> hmm, I ran Xorg --config and X -config xorg.conf.new and it just dumped the frame buffer onto the screen and then hunh
Jun 01 15:14:25 <FunkyPenguin> is the MeeGo obs publicly accessible yet?
Jun 01 15:14:30 <arjan> CosmoHill: on meego we don't use a xorg.conf ;)
Jun 01 15:14:37 <sx0n|home> gotta go, i've got ac/dc tickets for todays concert. ;)
Jun 01 15:14:41 <CosmoHill> that's why I made one
Jun 01 15:15:08 <CosmoHill> I need to tell it to load the nvidia driver somehow
Jun 01 15:15:15 <odin_> CosmoHill, are you trying to get MeeGo working on "non-standard hardware" ?
Jun 01 15:15:20 <CosmoHill> yes
Jun 01 15:15:45 <odin_> ah well then, you are doing the right thing, keep playing at it :)
Jun 01 15:16:01 <sx0n|home> CosmoHill i saw message that it(X) automatically tried to load nv
Jun 01 15:16:15 <Vortiago> gour, the 'missing daemon command' thing can be fixed by editing the vbox startup-scripts (You have to add . /etc/init.d/functions so that it can locate the daemon function from there)
Jun 01 15:16:21 <CosmoHill> i think i get that if I run "startx"
Jun 01 15:16:41 <CosmoHill> I have the nvidia driver and any rpm's I use on my memory stick
Jun 01 15:17:49 <odin_> FunkyPenguin, I don't belive so, still waiting on h/w to be ready is the last I hear last week, there is a Wiki page somewhere with status
Jun 01 15:17:57 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats.may.html
Jun 01 15:18:20 <DawnFoster> stskeeps: sweet, that was fast, thanks!
Jun 01 15:18:35 <FunkyPenguin> odin_, ok thanks
Jun 01 15:18:52 <CosmoHill> hmm I see. $HOME/.Xclients first, then /etc/X11/xinit/Xclients followed by the fallback of twm, xterm etc
Jun 01 15:19:04 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: postit blocked my view and i had 5 minutes free time ;)
Jun 01 15:19:09 * odin_ hopes that the user with the longest IRC line lengths is not being recorded
Jun 01 15:19:22 <Stskeeps> odin_: you'd win, for sure
Jun 01 15:19:22 <odin_> ah we can see to talks the most, hehe
Jun 01 15:20:00 <odin_> it DOES letters/line ha ha!
Jun 01 15:20:19 <CosmoHill> if I'm right i've seen a mistake
Jun 01 15:20:25 <CosmoHill> if (something) {do something}
Jun 01 15:20:36 <Termana> Stskeeps, that was a great "prediction" ;)
Jun 01 15:20:37 <CosmoHill> else if (same thing) {do the same thing}
Jun 01 15:21:18 <CosmoHill> /etc/X11/xinit/Xclients line 61
Jun 01 15:21:53 <Stskeeps> odin_: average 89 chars per mine, record ;p
Jun 01 15:22:30 <Termana> Stskeeps, lol your nickname is the 7th most used word
Jun 01 15:22:38 <Termana> Mr. Popular :P
Jun 01 15:22:52 <Stskeeps> or i chat too much and work too little
Jun 01 15:22:52 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 01 15:23:01 <odin_> does the colour denote the time of day on the most....
Jun 01 15:23:13 <Tm_T> Stskeeps: glad you said it yourself (;
Jun 01 15:23:14 <w00t_> i'm highly impressed i'm still at #17
Jun 01 15:23:15 * Tm_T hides
Jun 01 15:23:16 <Vortiago> Go make a patch CosmoHill :P But yea, the last part there isn't realy needed
Jun 01 15:23:31 <w00t_> (then again, i need to talk more so I overtake GAN900)
Jun 01 15:24:02 <w00t_> also, Stskeeps, I love my quote..
Jun 01 15:25:18 <odin_> shouldn't it be "Stskeeps!" everyone start using an exclamation mark after that word now :)
Jun 01 15:28:08 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: and a new stats, for meego-arm: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats.arm.may.html
Jun 01 15:28:18 * odin_ hides
Jun 01 15:29:29 <Stskeeps> (which might be interesting as it's from when we start open development)
Jun 01 15:30:14 <GAN900> w00t_, sucker.
Jun 01 15:30:58 <DawnFoster> thanks
Jun 01 15:35:54 <CosmoHill> bollocks >.<
Jun 01 15:36:31 <CosmoHill> I copy the built-in xorg config and it hangs
Jun 01 15:36:36 <gour> arjan: uxlaunch does not produce any effect...
Jun 01 15:36:44 <gour> Vortiago: thanks. let me try it
Jun 01 15:39:33 <GAN900> w00t_, isn't it depressing you're behind my N900 nick? :P
Jun 01 15:39:41 <w00t_> not really
Jun 01 15:39:44 <GAN900> Not sure who for, though. *g*
Jun 01 15:39:54 <w00t_> i have more productive things to do than whinge a lot on IRC *evilgrin*
Jun 01 15:42:07 <GAN900> Yeah, sure, so YOU claim.
Jun 01 15:42:16 <w00t_> truth!
Jun 01 15:42:28 <sivang> Stskeeps: for someone who's witnessing for himself his talking of his ass most of the time, that doesn't look so good :)
Jun 01 15:42:31 <w00t_> although admittedly today has been mostly a masochistic day
Jun 01 15:43:25 <cor_r> Is meego also installable on a laptop?
Jun 01 15:44:03 <CosmoHill> cat /dev/input/mouce is fun :)
Jun 01 15:44:37 <CosmoHill> you do have to type "reset" afterwards
Jun 01 15:44:47 <sivang> Stskeeps: although if you apply for Pet Detective sequal, then that's applicative.
Jun 01 15:45:03 * sivang finished his comic corner today
Jun 01 15:48:20 <cor_r> ??
Jun 01 15:48:47 <Tm_T> cor_r: is
Jun 01 15:49:08 <odin_> cor_r, yea and no, the current images targets newer Atom based laptops, which CPU do you have ?
Jun 01 15:49:49 <cor_r> inte core duo 6600
Jun 01 15:49:55 <odin_> cor_r, but there is no reason why MeeGo for Intel can't in future support older kit (as per the Linux way), its just doing to take some more time for people to work on that
Jun 01 15:50:28 <cor_r> odin_, ok thank you for ur answer :)
Jun 01 15:53:38 <Stskeeps> odin_: primary argument is that most apps will be built towards the atom baseline.
Jun 01 15:53:39 <odin_> its a "Core 2 Duo", do might do, but my hunch is not, I can't see explicitly  SSSE3 in the data sheet (I can see it doesn't have ANI which is pretty new)
Jun 01 15:54:29 <cor_r> ok thank you guys, I will just have a try and hope that i t will work :)
Jun 01 15:54:34 <odin_> well if the users are happy that is great, but the linux way is to support older h/w and there is no reason MeeGo can not
Jun 01 15:54:40 <pupnik> i still have systems without NX bit
Jun 01 15:55:03 <odin_> it should at least during bootup indicate to the user, "Kernel bootup aborted, SSSE3 support not found", when booting the pre-made images
Jun 01 15:55:59 <CosmoHill> http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_4022.html
Jun 01 15:55:59 <Stskeeps> agreed
Jun 01 15:56:00 <CosmoHill> hmm
Jun 01 15:56:03 <Stskeeps> i think there used to be
Jun 01 15:59:55 <odin_> but I'm guessing they have broken the ABI, due to the fact people without the support can even run a binary, unless its just a simple case that no callback i386 versions of libraries have not been provided (space optimization of pre-made images)
Jun 01 16:00:50 <odin_> maybe they should have /lib/ld-linux-meego-ssse3-madeup.so are their DL, then they can do what they want
Jun 01 16:03:50 <CosmoHill> meego is xorg 1.8 correct?
Jun 01 16:08:33 <csd> Hi I'm looking at the n900 kickstart and it points to this URL http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/repo/arm/os which doesn't exist - anyone know the right URL?
Jun 01 16:10:19 <odin_> http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/images/meego-n900-open-armv7l/  ???
Jun 01 16:11:24 <csd> the kickstart on that URL seems to be live. I'll take a look on that one. thanks
Jun 01 16:16:37 <dneary> Is the MeeGo community software meeting in 1h?
Jun 01 16:16:58 <CosmoHill> dneary: nope, it's been cancelled
Jun 01 16:16:59 <odin_> it may have been cancelled due to no agenda, please check Wiki page
Jun 01 16:17:33 <dneary> Really? That's like 5 meetings in a month cancelled or without critical mass of people to work on them
Jun 01 16:17:39 <dneary> It's getting beyond ridiculous
Jun 01 16:17:47 <odin_> Hmm do you have an issue to raise tho ?
Jun 01 16:18:09 <dneary> odin_, Not particularly - beyond being informed what's going on
Jun 01 16:18:34 <odin_> since I don't think it made the agenda deadline, raise an item for 2 weeks time then, "What is going on?"  lol
Jun 01 16:18:47 <GAN900> Yo, dneary.
Jun 01 16:19:25 <CosmoHill> arjan can I make a feature requestion for meego 1.1?
Jun 01 16:19:55 <gour> i can build vbox guestadditions, but attempt to run uxlaunch is killed and dmesg shows vboxclient segfaults in libx11 :-/
Jun 01 16:21:18 <odin_> are you asking for help debugging ?   are you asking if its a known issue ?   are you expecting us to debug it over IRC ?
Jun 01 16:23:47 <gour> i'm asking it it should be possible to run meego under vbox
Jun 01 16:23:56 <dneary> hi GAN900
Jun 01 16:24:11 <gour> forum posts are not very encouraging
Jun 01 16:24:21 <gour> odin_: of course any help is welcome
Jun 01 16:25:52 <GAN900> dneary, good vacation?
Jun 01 16:26:02 <dneary> Not a vacation, a move
Jun 01 16:26:15 <odin_> gour, ok, just wasn't clear how someone might help, vbox is x86 emulator ?  sorry I am MeeGo ARM user
Jun 01 16:26:16 <dneary> And unfortunately internet outage lasted longer than I expected
Jun 01 16:26:23 <dneary> But all sorted now
Jun 01 16:26:33 <dneary> Still catching up though :(
Jun 01 16:26:46 <gour> odin_: yes...it was possible to try moblin with it, but no luck with meego :-/
Jun 01 16:26:50 <dneary> I just saw why I didn't get notified of the meeting cancellation, it was on the forums
Jun 01 16:27:06 <dneary> Oh, no, it wasn't
Jun 01 16:27:11 <dneary> It wasn't anywhere
Jun 01 16:29:09 <dneary> odin_, Are we talking about the same meeting?
Jun 01 16:29:12 <odin_> now maybe a good time to trot out "meego-meeting@group.calendar.google.com"  but it is not very good at cancelling meetings
Jun 01 16:29:26 <dneary> Community office meeting is marked as cancelled in http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Meeting_IRC_Schedule
Jun 01 16:29:42 <Termana> dneary, the meeting was only just cancelled a little while ago
Jun 01 16:29:44 <odin_> the MeeGo CWG Meeting, the 1st (7pm) and 3rd Tues (2pm) of every month?
Jun 01 16:29:45 <dneary> but there should still be a community software meeting with tero, lbt, et al
Jun 01 16:29:53 <dneary> Termana, Which one?
Jun 01 16:30:05 <Termana> Community office/working group one
Jun 01 16:30:17 <dneary> odin_, I'm talking about this one: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=224
Jun 01 16:30:36 <dneary> Which is.... tomorrow!!!
Jun 01 16:30:38 <dneary> :)
Jun 01 16:33:02 <odin_> http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Working_Group_Meeting  this is the one due today (but cancelled, says 15 June 2pm now)
Jun 01 16:34:23 <DawnFoster> we cancelled the bi-weekly community office meeting, which was scheduled today.
Jun 01 16:34:23 <Termana> odin_, I think we've established dneary is talking about a different meeting than the CWG meeting :) He is talking about the on in his link (the Meow meeting)
Jun 01 16:34:35 <DawnFoster> the community applications meeting is still tomorrow
Jun 01 16:34:44 <GAN900> dneary, ah, right, confusing you and Jaffa
Jun 01 16:35:03 <dneary> I thought we got rid of all the Community_Working_Group links in the wiki
Jun 01 16:35:03 <Termana> For those that don't get the joke - Meow, CAT, Community Applications Team :p
Jun 01 16:35:21 <dneary> Shouldn't that be Community Office/Meeting?
Jun 01 16:36:02 <dneary> DawnFoster, Just wondering - why is "To karma or not to karma?" still up as an agenda item in Community Office/Meetings?
Jun 01 16:36:05 <Termana> Why was the named even changed from Community Work Group to Community Office?
Jun 01 16:36:11 <Termana> name*
Jun 01 16:36:17 <dneary> DawnFoster, I have moved on, consider the question closed
Jun 01 16:36:21 <DawnFoster> dneary: I haven't had time to update that page
Jun 01 16:36:30 <dneary> DawnFoster, Ah, OK
Jun 01 16:36:30 <DawnFoster> it's still showing info from the last meeting.
Jun 01 16:36:34 <dneary> I updated the CO page
Jun 01 16:36:52 <dneary> the meeting date was changed in the page, though - so someone's updating it
Jun 01 16:37:08 <DawnFoster> termana: to avoid confusion. We're using "working groups" to refer to platforms (netbook, handset, etc.)
Jun 01 16:37:25 <CosmoHill> hehe "working"
Jun 01 16:38:32 <DawnFoster> more details about working groups / governance here: http://meego.com/about/governance
Jun 01 16:39:04 <sivang> ahh nice to be here from the bus on n900
Jun 01 16:39:18 <GAN900> Termana, it was?
Jun 01 16:40:30 <Termana> GAN900, the fact you have to ask that after DawnFoster has just even provided an explanation about the name being changed makes me want to facepalm :P
Jun 01 16:42:46 <sivang> DawnFoster: so qa is not gonna need a working group for the meanwhile ?
Jun 01 16:43:34 <DawnFoster> sivang: there is a QA group in the project structure. We don't need a separate working group, since people can just participate in the project
Jun 01 16:43:50 <GAN900> Termana, sorry, at work.
Jun 01 16:44:01 <CosmoHill> sod it
Jun 01 16:44:05 <CosmoHill> no nvidia for you
Jun 01 16:44:08 <Termana> GAN900, hehe no problem :P
Jun 01 16:44:12 <GAN900> DawnFoster, the whole arrangement is super confusing.
Jun 01 16:44:18 <DawnFoster> http://meego.com/sites/all/files/MeeGoDevStructureTSG_May5.pdf
Jun 01 16:44:23 <sivang> DawnFoster: where can i read or join this group ?
Jun 01 16:44:30 <GAN900> DawnFoster, a nice organization overview explanation page would work wonders.
Jun 01 16:44:48 <DawnFoster> the TSG is still in the process of defining the details behind the structure and adding names to it.
Jun 01 16:45:31 <odin_> meck-it-uup-az-yer-goer-along
Jun 01 16:45:34 <DawnFoster> as soon as they have more details behind the structure, it will get easier to participate, since we have names of people to contact to volunteer help
Jun 01 16:45:42 <GAN900> DawnFoster, how about something not-PDF?
Jun 01 16:45:56 <odin_> hmm maybe a Yorkshire accent doesn't translate that well on IRC
Jun 01 16:45:59 <DawnFoster> GAN900: as soon as we have more details, we'll get something better posted
Jun 01 16:46:14 <DawnFoster> I can't post what hasn't been defined :)
Jun 01 16:46:23 <sivang> DawnFoster: so that i closed stuff so far ?
Jun 01 16:46:36 <odin_> but people are ready to QA it (the stuff that is not defined :)
Jun 01 16:47:08 <DawnFoster> sivang: I don't understand your question.
Jun 01 16:47:28 <DawnFoster> People can do QA right now and submit bugs to bugzilla
Jun 01 16:48:15 <odin_> sorry I was being flippant with their eagerness
Jun 01 16:48:52 <sivang> DawnFoster: that is alwys true so what will the qa group do ?
Jun 01 16:49:24 <sivang> DawnFoster: i mean cater for govenece ?
Jun 01 16:49:27 <sivang> err
Jun 01 16:49:55 <sivang> DawnFoster: i will follow on the pdf
Jun 01 16:50:21 <DawnFoster> sivang: My point is that once we get the project structure defined with names, you can talk to the people responsible for QA and coordinate efforts under the project - we don't need a separate working group for things that can be done in the project.
Jun 01 16:50:33 <DawnFoster> The TSG is working hard to define the structure right now.
Jun 01 16:51:20 <sivang> it is hard to irssi from the tablet :-)
Jun 01 16:52:13 <sivang> DawnFoster: that is an open process the definitions ?
Jun 01 16:53:02 <sivang> DawnFoster: be back later
Jun 01 16:53:09 <DawnFoster> sivang: I recommend reading through the logs / minutes from the past few TSG meetings. The project structure falls under TGS
Jun 01 16:55:26 <gour> after seeing so many posts in different (non meego) forums about attempt to run MeeGO UI under vbox, i think it would be nice if someone can add some FAQ to the wiki to save people's time, either saying "It's not possible!" or explaining how to do it...
Jun 01 16:56:10 <gour> many are coming with the moblin experience and the present situation is, imho, quite bad PR for meego
Jun 01 16:56:50 <arjan> I'm surprised moblin ran under vbox
Jun 01 16:56:54 <arjan> we never got that working ourselves
Jun 01 16:57:07 <mindfaq> it never worked for me, too
Jun 01 16:57:07 <arjan> and I don't see anything we changed to break that either
Jun 01 16:58:29 <mindfaq> ubuntu's moblin remix may have worked though
Jun 01 16:58:47 <gour> using moblin under vbox was quite straightforward
Jun 01 16:59:17 <gour> no magic, except booting as 'init 3' and manually launching startx
Jun 01 16:59:31 * gour was using moblin 2.1
Jun 01 17:01:04 <DawnFoster> gour: I'm working on a FAQ
Jun 01 17:01:28 <DawnFoster> http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_FAQ
Jun 01 17:01:36 <DawnFoster> it still needs a ton of work
Jun 01 17:01:38 <gour> DawnFoster: thanks a lot...it will be very much appreciated
Jun 01 17:01:49 <DawnFoster> I'm waiting to post it until I get the answers in better shape
Jun 01 17:01:59 <DawnFoster> people are free to contribute to it :)
Jun 01 17:02:11 * pupnik looks 
Jun 01 17:02:33 <arjan> gour: I'm surprised startx worked
Jun 01 17:02:36 <arjan> we've never used that
Jun 01 17:02:41 <arjan> we only use the uxlaunch-from-init method
Jun 01 17:02:48 <arjan> (either moblin or meego)
Jun 01 17:02:48 <gour> arjan: it was widely posted
Jun 01 17:03:06 <arjan> I'm also baffled as to why rl5 wouldn't work, and this would work
Jun 01 17:03:14 <arjan> other than this being run as root I suppose
Jun 01 17:03:20 <arjan> while the X server by default is not setuid-root
Jun 01 17:04:28 <gour> arjan: this is 2nd google hit 'running moblin virtualbox' - http://blog.bobpeers.com/2009/05/04/running-moblin-in-virtualbox/
Jun 01 17:04:34 <mindfaq> which is pretty nice that way
Jun 01 17:05:12 <arjan> I suspect that on vbox, you need your X running as root
Jun 01 17:05:20 <arjan> so a chmod +s /usr/bin/Xorg might be a hard requirement
Jun 01 17:05:28 <gour> ...and that's why meego-1.0 is bitter experience
Jun 01 17:06:24 <gour> arjan: i can boot meego as init 3 and log as root...i also built guestadditions (opengl stuff etc.), but no further luck
Jun 01 17:07:26 <gour> the last message in the forum thread says: "I suspect the Moblin graphic drivers are incompatible with the OpenGL kernel module that is built by the Guest Additions" can any meego dev confirm it?
Jun 01 17:09:34 <GAN900> DawnFoster, hopefully that's RSN.
Jun 01 17:09:46 <DawnFoster> RSN?
Jun 01 17:09:56 <GAN900> DawnFoster, lot of enthusiasm floating right out the window because of that lack right now.
Jun 01 17:10:03 <GAN900> Real Soon Now
Jun 01 17:11:06 <DawnFoster> GAN900: I don't have a lot of control over how soon it gets done. I can say that I have been a complete pain & have been pushing hard to get this done soon.
Jun 01 17:11:21 <DawnFoster> I know that we needed this months ago & the TSG does too.
Jun 01 17:11:27 <DawnFoster> it just takes time unfortunately
Jun 01 17:11:34 <GAN900> OK then
Jun 01 17:22:01 <arjan> gour: I don't think we have anything incompatible
Jun 01 17:22:09 <arjan> we use a pretty much unpatches X 1.8 and Mesa
Jun 01 17:23:15 <CosmoHill> The lastest nvidia drivers don't support X 1.8 :(
Jun 01 17:23:46 <arjan> X 1.8 got released like in March or before that
Jun 01 17:23:53 <arjan> they're .. late if they don't support that
Jun 01 17:25:14 <gour> arjan: well, the fact is that i still did not find a post how to do it
Jun 01 17:26:40 <gour> arjan: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=2702 thread is quite long wiht proper answers...
Jun 01 17:27:15 <gour> if for some devs it is known fact that meego & vbox are 'no go', it would be nice to have it posted somewhere
Jun 01 17:29:07 <mindfaq> CosmoHill: nvidia does support x-server 1.8
Jun 01 17:29:16 <CosmoHill> really?
Jun 01 17:29:19 <mindfaq> yep
Jun 01 17:29:27 <CosmoHill> what about nvidia-xorg-config?
Jun 01 17:30:17 <mindfaq> what do you mean?
Jun 01 17:30:32 * gour is going to stop wasting time trying to run meego under vbox
Jun 01 17:30:48 <mindfaq> support for 1.8 x-server is offical since 195.36.24
Jun 01 17:31:22 <mindfaq> it did work before though by adding "ignoreABI" to xorg.conf
Jun 01 17:36:11 * mindfaq hopes that nouveau can keep its high speed of progress
Jun 01 17:44:53 * CosmoHill hopes someone can get nvidia support on meego
Jun 01 17:45:58 <mindfaq> with nouveau enhancing its 3d support that's very likely to happen
Jun 01 18:01:14 * gour would be happy with vbox support in order to be able to use meego under VM for development and real machine for usage
Jun 01 18:30:38 <odin_> gour, ah a thought... what CPUs can Vbox emulate... does it emulate the SSSE3 features ?
Jun 01 18:30:58 <gour> odin_: if moblin was working...
Jun 01 18:31:04 <odin_> gour, this is a new CPUID bit for a feature set found in only the newest CPUs
Jun 01 18:32:29 <gour> odin_: check last post in http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=2702
Jun 01 18:32:36 <odin_> unfortunately I do not know the history of Moblin, to know, but just because Moblin worked (and my have targetted i386) doesn't mean the current MeeGo Intel spin works on the same hardware, I can only advise you complain to your vendor if they have hung you out to dry support wise
Jun 01 18:33:30 <arjan> "newest"... ssse3 cpus were shipping in mid 2006 already
Jun 01 18:33:33 <arjan> like 4 years ago
Jun 01 18:33:48 <arjan> moblin targeted the same set of cpus (core2/atom) btw
Jun 01 18:33:55 * gour has i7
Jun 01 18:34:02 <arjan> i7 is VROOOOOM :)
Jun 01 18:34:06 <CosmoHill> I read that as 17
Jun 01 18:34:08 <arjan> meego on my i7 is *fast*
Jun 01 18:34:23 * gour has ati
Jun 01 18:35:02 <mindfaq> there isn't any way to run meego on LGA1366 based i7 cpus, right?
Jun 01 18:35:17 <gour> no meego under vbox is shame...people are speaking about geemo :-(
Jun 01 18:35:19 <odin_> does core2 have it ? I did not think it did, I have i7(2.8)+ati too, got it a few weeks ago
Jun 01 18:35:37 <arjan> core2 and all later cpus from intel have ssse3
Jun 01 18:35:40 <CosmoHill> you can run it on a core 2 but only if you have intel graphics
Jun 01 18:36:03 <arjan> mindfaq: if you have workig/supported graphics .. works fine ;)
Jun 01 18:36:08 <mindfaq> there is no way to get intel graphics with LGA1366 ;)
Jun 01 18:36:17 <arjan> my i7 has a lame matrox card that is slower in 3D than software rendering
Jun 01 18:36:26 <arjan> but then I mostly use it in runlevel 3 for building stuff
Jun 01 18:37:00 <odin_> I am looking at my servers, HP DL360/380G5, less than 2 years old, they dont have ssse3 aka TNI/MNI, but have 64bit+ (but they do have sse3 aka PNI)
Jun 01 18:37:18 <arjan> odin_: what cpu is in them?
Jun 01 18:37:22 <thiago_home> arjan: what *isn't* fast on i7?
Jun 01 18:37:32 <CosmoHill> thiago_home: vista?
Jun 01 18:37:35 <odin_> E5440/E5505
Jun 01 18:37:36 <mindfaq> aes
Jun 01 18:38:28 <odin_> opps E5440/E5405, AES (aka ANI)  is new as well
Jun 01 18:39:54 <odin_> dont confuse SSE3 (PNI) with SSSE3 (TNI/MNI), yes sure Core2 and cpus newer than 2006 or so, had SSE3 but not SSSE3
Jun 01 18:40:12 <arjan> core2 has ssse3
Jun 01 18:40:21 <mindfaq> PNI was available in 2006 athlon 64
Jun 01 18:40:26 <arjan> please don't spread that misinformation
Jun 01 18:40:34 <mindfaq> so core 2 will have it
Jun 01 18:40:34 <arjan> in fact we use -march=core2 as compiler flag ;)
Jun 01 18:40:46 <arjan> basically we anchored on the core2 instruction set
Jun 01 18:40:59 <odin_> well yes, you'd expect to be able to use -march=core2 as a compiler flag on a core2 !
Jun 01 18:41:25 <arjan> and atom instruction set is the core2 one (plus to instructions we don't use anyway)
Jun 01 18:41:39 <odin_> what is your chip ID ?  I looked up a Core2 earlier and could not find info on SSSE3 (it did not have AES the one I looked at)
Jun 01 18:41:52 <arjan> AES is a different beast
Jun 01 18:41:55 <arjan> AES in SSE 4.2
Jun 01 18:41:56 <arjan> not ssse3
Jun 01 18:42:20 <mindfaq> the new aes instructions are only available in recent 32 nm cpus
Jun 01 18:42:22 * CosmoHill hides his P4 in shame
Jun 01 18:43:17 <CosmoHill> I don't even have HT
Jun 01 18:44:55 * mindfaq hopes that next-gen atom will incorporate AES NI
Jun 01 18:45:17 <CosmoHill> AES is encryption related right?
Jun 01 18:45:21 <mindfaq> yes
Jun 01 18:45:25 <CosmoHill> cool :)
Jun 01 18:45:29 <odin_> which of the instructions are really useful for general purpose code ?  I am looking at SSE4 and SSSE3 and most are specialized (i.e. not worth breaking an ABI for, if that is indeed what has happened)
Jun 01 18:45:40 <ShadowJK> I thought AES instructions were going away?
Jun 01 18:45:43 <CosmoHill> i wish my server has AES, SFTP puts a huge load on it
Jun 01 18:45:56 <thiago_home> movbe
Jun 01 18:46:15 <thiago_home> arjan: using -mtune=atom too?
Jun 01 18:46:32 <thiago_home> odin_: SSE4 string functions would be useful
Jun 01 18:46:37 <mindfaq> ever wanted to have a via nano netbook because of their crypto abilities
Jun 01 18:46:58 <mindfaq> but their graphics drivers...
Jun 01 18:52:49 <odin_> has 'dd' started reporting summary in GB instead of GiB, the counts always seem too high
Jun 01 19:05:06 <daniel_> 1
Jun 01 19:05:41 <CosmoHill> 0
Jun 01 19:13:31 <CosmoHill> daniel_: no idea why but you've inspired me to make a text to binary converter
Jun 01 19:14:36 <daniel_> @CosmoHill Should I feel 01100100?
Jun 01 19:14:44 <CosmoHill> maybe
Jun 01 19:14:54 <CosmoHill> let me finish my program and I'll tell you
Jun 01 19:15:18 <daniel_> do you know if meego has a virtual keyboard?  Didn't find one when I tried it out...
Jun 01 19:15:54 <TSCHAKeee2> daniel_: the mobile UX does not have a virtual keyboard
Jun 01 19:16:19 <daniel_> K, Thanks
Jun 01 19:30:03 <CosmoHill> got it :)
Jun 01 19:45:59 <gour> what do you say about this one - http://techrights.org/2010/05/28/meego-dot-net/ ?
Jun 01 19:48:54 <arjan> hyperbole
Jun 01 19:49:00 <arjan> mono is not part of meego architecturally
Jun 01 19:49:01 <Stskeeps> gour: anytime anyone touches mono topic, people appear and try to make people hate mono, it's sometimes like those people showing up with banners at funerals of soliders :P
Jun 01 19:49:13 <arjan> it's just pulled in as a dependency for the netbook media player
Jun 01 19:49:16 <arjan> big fscking yawn.
Jun 01 19:49:37 <gour> this http://techrights.org/2010/05/29/shotwell-in-fedora/ is also interesting
Jun 01 19:50:40 <gour> arjan: quite some stuff in meego are using mono  - http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2010/May-27.html
Jun 01 19:51:20 <gour> Stskeeps: i do not hate mono, but avoid putting it on my desktop since it pulls too many deps
Jun 01 19:51:22 <Stskeeps> and it's reference apps, people/vendors are free to remove them
Jun 01 19:52:04 <Stskeeps> gour: http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page scares me a bit (i'm not pro or against mono) :P
Jun 01 19:53:20 <gour> Stskeeps: huh
Jun 01 19:53:39 <Stskeeps> gour: referring to the main site of the urls refer to
Jun 01 19:53:39 <sivang> DawnFoster: not currently in liberty to go over meeting minutes , but will try to do so during the upcoming weekend.
Jun 01 19:54:05 <arjan> gour: eh no. Only the media player is using mono.
Jun 01 19:54:19 <sivang> arjan: the meego media player?
Jun 01 19:54:38 <arjan> the banshee player in the netbook build
Jun 01 19:54:51 <arjan> (there'll be different media players for other devices)
Jun 01 19:55:27 <sivang> DawnFoster: liberty == time
Jun 01 19:55:37 <Stskeeps> the good thing about things like meego is that if you don't like the smell of the bakery, you can write something better :P most often people don't go ahead with that 'threat' though :)
Jun 01 19:55:51 <arjan> you can assume that new media players for other devices will be based on the meego touch framework btw
Jun 01 19:56:11 <arjan> (which is a layer on top of Qt to add touch awareness etc)
Jun 01 19:56:12 <sivang> arjan: and not mono as runtime, is the runtime performant enough on devices like N900 ?
Jun 01 19:56:25 <Stskeeps> not sure mono belongs on a n900 like device
Jun 01 19:56:29 <arjan> sivang: I doubt that mono will be deployed on a phone
Jun 01 19:56:38 <ShadowJK> codecs don't run inside the vm anyway
Jun 01 19:56:41 <arjan> we're pulling it in the the netbook media player only
Jun 01 19:56:46 <arjan> not as a core building block
Jun 01 19:56:49 <sivang> arjan: ah k, makes sense.
Jun 01 19:56:51 <TSCHAKeee2> leave it to the reactionary idiots to shout off their mouths
Jun 01 19:56:53 <sivang> (hence my question)
Jun 01 19:56:54 <TSCHAKeee2> whee.
Jun 01 19:57:01 <suihkulokki> there was a mono port for n8x0 and run just fine (like python et all)
Jun 01 19:57:07 <TSCHAKeee2> *shake-head*
Jun 01 19:57:13 <sivang> suihkulokki: ah , nice.
Jun 01 19:57:22 <ShadowJK> and a half-arsedly written player in mono is probably lighter than N900's thing anyway :)
Jun 01 19:57:23 <Stskeeps> whatever happened to doing things to change the world instead of moaning about the state of the world and doing nothing? :P
Jun 01 19:57:24 <arjan> you can make a big deal out of nothing easily on the internet
Jun 01 19:57:27 <arjan> doesn't mean it's fact based
Jun 01 19:57:37 <Khertan> hum ... it s seems i ve lost x
Jun 01 19:58:05 <sivang> who is doing big deal out of what? another vm, another language, that's all
Jun 01 19:58:08 <TSCHAKeee2> Stskeeps: that went away when the users started outnumbering developers in the free software community...
Jun 01 19:58:13 <sivang> the more choice the better (sometimes!)
Jun 01 19:58:43 <TSCHAKeee2> i do think mono is very shady...but if microsoft pulls the patent card
Jun 01 19:58:47 <TSCHAKeee2> big deal, it's replaced
Jun 01 19:58:52 <TSCHAKeee2> boo $()#@$#@ hoo
Jun 01 19:58:58 <Quu> microsoft deals hitler -card.
Jun 01 19:59:21 <Stskeeps> i still wonder about liability in terms of what goes into meego, or what's published from meego servers
Jun 01 20:02:56 <microlith> Stskeeps: nothing probably, MS will go after those who ship it
Jun 01 20:04:12 <sivang> ShadowJK: I guess so, a lot of stuff in N900 are so heavy.
Jun 01 20:05:03 <ShadowJK> most (all?) python players even respond quicker... :)
Jun 01 20:06:25 <Khertan_MiGo> I see that the garage is available in Meego ... and a few application in it ... Does this garage is "open" to third developpers ?
Jun 01 20:08:58 <mindfaq> i wonder if there will be a possibility to run the latest meego development state and get it updated through package management
Jun 01 20:09:03 <DawnFoster> Khertan_MiGo: we're still working out the process to submit apps to the garage, but it will be open to any developers
Jun 01 20:09:08 <mindfaq> similar like fedora's doing with rawhide
Jun 01 20:09:13 <mindfaq> and debian with sid/unstable
Jun 01 20:10:16 <microlith> mindfaq: I don't see why not.
Jun 01 20:11:06 <Khertan_MiGo> DawnFoster: ok ... the question was more a is it available yet ? so i got my answer thx
Jun 01 20:15:57 <DawnFoster> Khertan_MiGo: You might be interested in this meeting tomorrow where they will be talking more about this process. http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Application_Support
Jun 01 20:17:17 <Khertan_MiGo> DawnFoster: thx
Jun 01 20:36:14 <q9c9p> hello
Jun 01 20:36:29 <q9c9p> did anybody tryied to install meego on eeepc 701?
Jun 01 20:37:06 <q9c9p> becuse I cannot :/ 3G of disk are not enough it seems...
Jun 01 20:52:20 <arjan> q9c9p: it also does not have an atom cpu so it's not going to work
Jun 01 20:53:01 <q9c9p> arjan: ah, thanks, I missed that, anyway is booting live
Jun 01 20:53:14 <q9c9p> and the atheros from the 701 model is working
Jun 01 20:53:24 <q9c9p> only chromium is not working
Jun 01 20:53:29 <q9c9p> and the battery
Jun 01 20:53:58 <q9c9p> anyway, thanks, then I will look for something else to put on the eee 701
Jun 01 22:10:14 <wolfalohalani> aloha
Jun 01 22:10:41 <wolfalohalani> anybody get around the problems with yum?
Jun 01 22:11:12 <wolfalohalani> hah - any human people here at all right now?
Jun 01 22:11:32 <jausmus> mostly human...
Jun 01 22:12:02 <jausmus> what yum problem are you referring to? (still catching up on all my 3-day weekend e-mail)
Jun 01 22:12:47 <wolfalohalani> tries to see the adobe repository, has a problem, fails
Jun 01 22:13:19 <wolfalohalani> so, took the repo file out, ran again - couldn't find meego-core, failed
Jun 01 22:13:19 <wolfalohalani> grumble....
Jun 01 23:58:30 <CosmoHill> cyas
Jun 02 02:29:21 <kkszysiu> hello
Jun 02 02:29:39 <kkszysiu> whats application is used as client for libsocialweb?
Jun 02 02:29:52 <arjan> the myzone for example
Jun 02 02:29:58 <arjan> will list your twitters
Jun 02 02:38:26 <kkszysiu> hmm
Jun 02 02:38:44 <kkszysiu> sources of that are nit publically available?
Jun 02 02:58:33 <arjan> kkszysiu: they are
Jun 02 02:58:45 <arjan> yum-downloader --source moblin-panel-myzone
Jun 02 02:58:50 <arjan> or is it meego-panel-myzone now
Jun 02 02:58:52 * arjan forgot
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 02 02:59:57 2010