**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 09 02:59:57 2010 Jun 09 06:29:01 does anyone here know how I can replace the beta channel chrome with the dev channel chrome ? just installing the dev channel rpm does not work. Jun 09 07:03:36 hello world Jun 09 07:17:14 hello jusliukk Jun 09 07:17:37 hello sivu :) Jun 09 07:19:29 morn tekojo, slaine Jun 09 07:19:47 morning folks Jun 09 07:20:01 morning Stskeeps Jun 09 07:20:08 and everyone else Jun 09 07:20:16 morning Jun 09 07:20:39 finally, an agenda with structure and project roles on it for TSG meeting Jun 09 07:21:27 will be interesting to see if my internal mental picture of how things work in the project correspond to reality :P Jun 09 07:22:54 :) Jun 09 07:23:25 i wonder what are sage's topics ? Jun 09 07:23:44 for the n900 hardware adaptation meeting? Jun 09 07:23:50 yeah Jun 09 07:24:03 what's behind OBS issues ? Jun 09 07:24:11 it just does not work Jun 09 07:24:16 :) Jun 09 07:24:47 fabo: gettting build stalls and random breakdowns for 15 minutes, so it's impossible to work with :P Jun 09 07:24:51 504 is the response in 90% of the cases :) Jun 09 07:25:23 Sage: lucky guys :) Jun 09 07:25:42 I don't have the same results on OBS and local build ... Jun 09 07:40:54 h/w 30 Jun 09 08:07:24 Stskeeps: Is that N900 meeting on today or tomorrow ? You mentioned, June 9th and Thursday, pick one Jun 09 08:07:41 tomorrow morning Jun 09 08:07:51 argh Jun 09 08:07:53 10th June then Jun 09 08:07:56 it really isn't my day today :) Jun 09 08:08:00 lol Jun 09 08:08:06 get some coffee me lad Jun 09 08:14:12 slaine: ping Jun 09 08:14:23 ack Jun 09 08:14:59 slaine: something about the wl kernel module. I followed your instructions to get wifi on Broadcom 4353 chipset, but it only works after many many tries from connman. Jun 09 08:15:06 Ever heard anything similar? Jun 09 08:15:30 I have a simiar issue with connman, but it only takes one attempt for me Jun 09 08:15:50 I basically turn off wifi, count to 3, turn it on Jun 09 08:16:15 I've heard of others with similar problems on non-broadcom chipsets Jun 09 08:16:25 so I'm not sure it's just the wl kernel module Jun 09 08:16:46 yeah, I thought it might be a connman problem, because the same module (compiled by me) works fine on ubuntu. Jun 09 08:25:59 Can we already register for Meego Conference 2010 ? Still no detailed instructions on the wiki . Thx Jun 09 09:21:52 morning all Jun 09 09:21:54 so quite in here. Jun 09 09:22:20 good morning Jun 09 09:22:42 let's see whether we'll have a meeting today ... :D Jun 09 10:46:36 http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/09/nokias-17-model-house-reveals-a-smokin-s-series-n9-meego/ Jun 09 11:14:19 is QT running on meego on beagle board? Jun 09 11:14:56 I am able to run the basic meego in beagleboard Jun 09 11:15:07 I'd presume so, Qt works on ARM, so Jun 09 11:15:27 but how I can add more packages for window server and then QT? Jun 09 11:16:03 do you have X running already? Jun 09 11:16:17 X-term running Jun 09 11:17:01 BT: nice. did you get it easily working? Jun 09 11:17:21 not much problem Jun 09 11:18:38 I just got a beagle board myself but probably have no time to test that Jun 09 11:19:07 there's a small bunch of people working on meego-beagle, afaik Jun 09 11:21:08 well.. with X already running, you should be able to build (and run) Qt applications.. you'll probably want to get a window manager of some variety running to play around, but that's not a must of course Jun 09 11:24:08 looking some pointers, what window manager we can install? and how I can install Jun 09 11:25:13 having problem to use zypper? any zypper configuration needed so the packages can be downloaded from repo Jun 09 11:29:22 BT: honestly.. i'm not sure if one is packaged. Stskeeps: does the n900 image have xfce set up nowdays temporarily? or is it still a bare xterm too Jun 09 11:30:17 xterm Jun 09 11:30:37 ah :-/ Jun 09 11:30:50 how I can add xfce? Jun 09 11:31:39 know how to generate an image? Jun 09 11:33:48 I have some steps how to do it.... Jun 09 11:33:54 * CosmoHill has ridden 23.7Km today :D Jun 09 11:33:56 hey Stskeeps Jun 09 11:34:06 moo Jun 09 11:34:13 can it be added with the rootfs that is available in the website? Jun 09 11:34:49 BT: http://gitorious.org/meego-n8x0/image-config/blobs/master/arm-n8x0.ks has a config that uses xfce4 Jun 09 11:36:50 When is the N900 meeting tomorrow ? Jun 09 11:37:03 6:00 UTC Jun 09 11:37:49 Does anyone know the status of zypper and armv7 repos at repo.meego.com ? Jun 09 11:38:09 should be fine Jun 09 11:38:58 So its fixed ? Jun 09 11:39:32 well, what was the issue before? :P Jun 09 11:39:42 The zypper thats in the repo and in the first n900 image dont understand armv7l Jun 09 11:39:54 So you could not installanything from the repo. Jun 09 11:40:02 ok, that's cos someone made meego-release wrong Jun 09 11:40:13 edit the paths in zypper or yum conf to not say ia32 Jun 09 11:40:46 Stskeeps : thanks, is xfce is included, whats the meaning of --defaultdesktop=xfce Jun 09 11:41:03 Thats not the issue the issue is that zypper dont understands armv7l, there is pathes for this on the zypper ML. Jun 09 11:41:27 BT: logging into it Jun 09 11:41:28 Trollkar1en: ah Jun 09 11:41:35 Trollkar1en: could you point me to those? Jun 09 11:42:03 http://lists.opensuse.org/zypp-devel/2010-05/msg00026.html and http://lists.opensuse.org/zypp-devel/2010-05/msg00029.html Jun 09 11:42:27 thanks Jun 09 11:42:48 With them it works. Jun 09 11:42:53 ok, so dl9pf is on it Jun 09 11:43:06 Is he a meego guy ? Jun 09 11:43:23 I think he posted them :) Jun 09 11:43:52 yeah Jun 09 11:43:54 well, LF Jun 09 11:44:22 Will everything from now be released in a updates repo even for n900 ? Jun 09 11:44:39 trunk's being synced daily for all, it looks like Jun 09 11:45:03 So the 1.0 rel will change ? Jun 09 11:45:31 Stskeeps: did you see the screen shot I put up last light? Jun 09 11:46:53 What im intressed in is how the updates to 1.0 will be handled like the normal workflow for a distribution or not ? Jun 09 11:47:15 update from meego 0.1 or meamo? Jun 09 11:47:38 Freeze when 1.0 is rel and then all fixes are rel in a updates repo/project Jun 09 11:47:41 Trollkar1en: i think only minor updates go into 1.0. you'll have to ask the release team though Jun 09 11:48:03 Stskeeps: hmm, who are they? Jun 09 11:49:01 Who can i talk to that in the rel team ? Jun 09 11:49:25 meego-dev, prefix it with release team question or something Jun 09 11:49:28 (mailing list) Jun 09 12:02:49 Stskeeps : is there any latest ks file, arm-n8x0.ks has some issue to get kernel-n810 Jun 09 12:06:55 Hi. I have some silly question... I have problem the same like described here: http://wiki.meego.com/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment#Error:_chroot:_cannot_run_command_X:_No_such_file_or_directory Jun 09 12:07:09 But I don't know how to use this answer... Jun 09 12:07:45 What is Scratchbox1? And where I can find 'Prerequisites for ARM'? Jun 09 12:08:16 let's step back a bit and let me ask what you plan to do? Jun 09 12:09:00 Stskeeps: I trying to setup environment to building rpm packages... Jun 09 12:09:32 I'm just going step by step with http://wiki.meego.com/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment Jun 09 12:09:48 ok, for ARM or x86? Jun 09 12:09:57 For ARM. Jun 09 12:11:17 And when I'm trying to use mic-chroot to chroot into meego image I'm getting this 'No such file or directory' like in wiki. Jun 09 12:11:28 ok - and you haven't had scratchbox installed (maemo sdk) or the likes? Jun 09 12:11:49 No... I don't think so... Jun 09 12:12:06 ok - what image are you trying to chroot into? Jun 09 12:13:21 One moment... Jun 09 12:14:05 Stskeeps: I downloaded this one: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/0.9.80.1.20100330.1/n900/images/meego-codedrop-arm-developer/ Jun 09 12:15:00 ok, and what OS are you running this under? Jun 09 12:15:07 Stskeeps: Trollkar1en: yes, i'm on the zypper vs. armv7 issue Jun 09 12:15:16 Stskeeps: I have openSUSE in virtualbox Jun 09 12:15:52 ok - does /usr/bin/qemu-arm exist or /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static? Jun 09 12:15:58 in your host system Jun 09 12:17:15 Stskeeps: I have both... Jun 09 12:18:49 MmadA: cat /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/arm Jun 09 12:19:44 http://pastebin.com/n6AMXp7v Jun 09 12:21:03 * dl9pf looks Jun 09 12:21:21 ok, what do you try to execute - mic2 ? Jun 09 12:21:51 or chroot/dev environment ? Jun 09 12:23:13 I'm getting /bin/bash no such file or directory, but of course in fs/bin/bash I have bash. ;) Jun 09 12:23:30 give me your last steps please Jun 09 12:25:13 dl9pf: Just second, I need to clear everything. Jun 09 12:26:28 Rebooting my virtualmachine... Jun 09 12:26:48 do you try to exec mic2 ? Jun 09 12:26:58 Hm... Jun 09 12:28:44 dl9pf: Yes... It could be a reason... I instaled it, but I'm not sure if I exec mic2. Jun 09 12:29:36 ok, the issue is that there're 2 conflicting versions of qemu installed. Jun 09 12:29:45 But one moment do you mean 'sudo mic-chroot '? Jun 09 12:29:47 are you only interested in mic2 ? Jun 09 12:30:27 then do this: remove all qemu packages (qemu-* and qemu-arm-static) and install only qemu-arm-static Jun 09 12:30:51 dl9pf: OK, I will try it. Jun 09 12:31:05 dl9pf: Thanks! Jun 09 12:39:15 dl9pf: But if I have in my system only qemu-arm-static I don't have qemu-binfmt-conf.sh... Jun 09 12:39:47 ok, a minute please Jun 09 12:43:59 leave out the qemu-binfmt-conf.sh ... Jun 09 12:44:05 just exec the other steps Jun 09 12:44:09 Hm... Jun 09 12:44:50 o/ abner :) Jun 09 12:45:17 w00t_, o/ Jun 09 12:46:26 hey all Jun 09 12:46:49 Sage: Errorcode: 504 Jun 09 12:46:57 now, I've got it Jun 09 12:47:58 dl9pf: So without qemu-binfmt-conf I have the same: http://pastebin.com/e3YhNNfm Jun 09 12:48:52 why obs doesn't satisfy my build dependencies ? Jun 09 12:53:33 how can i run meego on desktop pc? Jun 09 12:54:22 daemon_, with supported hw Jun 09 12:54:55 u mean the SSSE? Jun 09 12:55:16 plus intel graphics. Jun 09 12:55:32 it wont run otherwise? Jun 09 12:55:39 sdk works Jun 09 12:55:41 it won't run directly.. you can use the SDK Jun 09 12:55:47 ok thanks Jun 09 13:00:05 MmadA: ls fs/usr/bin/qemu-* Jun 09 13:02:18 dl9pf: fs/usr/bin/qemu-arm-static Jun 09 13:03:16 cat /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/arm ? Jun 09 13:03:26 rpm -qv mic2 ? Jun 09 13:04:07 cat: /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/arm: No such file or directory Jun 09 13:04:22 Thats probably because I dont have qemu-binfmt-conf right now... Jun 09 13:04:36 nop, mic2 has its own mimic Jun 09 13:04:48 OK. Jun 09 13:04:55 rpm -qv mic2 ? Jun 09 13:05:06 xadamik@linux-mvbt:~/MeeGo/img> rpm -qv mic2 Jun 09 13:05:06 mic2-0.17-35.1.i586 Jun 09 13:05:22 hi, I downloaded latest package, probably it has QT, when I run qtdemo, there is some error couldnt open device /dev/skfgles2 Jun 09 13:05:57 MmadA: install mic2 from git master http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-developer-tools/image-creator Jun 09 13:06:03 and retry Jun 09 13:06:17 OK, lets try... Jun 09 13:12:04 has anyone been able to use vpn in meego? Jun 09 13:13:03 dl9pf: So just do all this 'git clone [...]', 'git remote add [...]' and so one, and make && make install? Jun 09 13:14:01 follow "From Development Git Tree" Jun 09 13:16:20 dl9pf: You mean http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation#From_Development_Git_Tree ? Jun 09 13:16:30 yes Jun 09 13:16:39 dl9pf: Sorry for so many questions. ;) Jun 09 13:16:55 np Jun 09 13:21:22 to run QT, is there any lib needed? Jun 09 13:32:08 fabo: welcome to the club :) Jun 09 13:32:27 i vote for '504' tshirts ;) Jun 09 13:35:45 when trying to run qtdemo then some error, GLES2 & EGL calls will result in failure. segmentation fault" Jun 09 13:44:54 any one has tried QT on meego on BB? Jun 09 13:46:59 BT there's an issue with qt finding the correct *GL setting, iirc no solution - maybe also buggy driver on beagle Jun 09 13:47:15 or non-existent :P Jun 09 13:47:25 you should just replace libGLESv2 with the right impl Jun 09 13:47:33 the open one would only work with a qemu kernel module Jun 09 13:47:36 and in qemu Jun 09 13:48:23 ah - using libgles2-qemu on the beagle itself ? Jun 09 13:49:42 dl9pf: well, that's the Trunk gles, you're supposed to provide a GLESv2 impl for your board :P Jun 09 13:49:58 yes, i know ;) Jun 09 13:50:09 we might be able to get the sgx drivers from meego/n900 on to beagle, we did that in maemo-on-omap Jun 09 13:50:18 but that's a grey area legally Jun 09 14:49:27 Hi! May I get here some Meego-support? I cant install Meego on my Samsung nc10. Jun 09 14:51:49 does it meet the minimum specs here? http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_FAQ Jun 09 14:55:27 whee, I just broke my sneezing record \o/ 12 sneezes in a row. Feel lightheaded now. Nevermind me, carry on... Jun 09 14:58:00 Myrtti: gesundheit :) Jun 09 14:59:55 * pupnik_ gets the smelling salts Jun 09 15:43:39 hello does anyone know how to implement a sms sending application in meego using qt4 api? or any reference sites? Jun 09 15:44:06 sounds like qt-mobility stuff Jun 09 15:44:38 is it library name? Jun 09 15:44:47 yes, it is Jun 09 15:45:05 http://labs.trolltech.com/page/Projects/QtMobility basically a new subsystem Jun 09 15:45:25 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.0/ Jun 09 15:45:59 thx Jun 09 16:35:39 Anyone knows - how one could easily compile low level software for ARM ( E.g. pulseaudio ) Jun 09 16:37:31 jku: hi Jun 09 16:37:47 hi Jun 09 16:37:51 jku: why should it be different from building of high-level stuff? Jun 09 16:38:12 it should not, I was just meaning non qt software. Jun 09 16:39:00 pa doesn't use almost anything from gnome Jun 09 16:39:03 not even glib Jun 09 16:39:04 afaik Jun 09 16:40:51 autotools just tend to make life a bit more complex Jun 09 16:40:55 meego should have per-app hibernate Jun 09 16:41:58 but so many things can change in the environment, isolating them and mapping isnt easy Jun 09 16:43:50 E.g. trying to compile for example: http://git.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/pulseaudio.git just drives one crazy Jun 09 17:43:51 anyone knows if it's possible to install meego on vmware? Jun 09 17:46:13 guess I'll find out... Jun 09 17:51:41 maragato: i've problem with vbox...probably it's similar to vmware Jun 09 18:01:18 gour, thanks... I'm trying now, but I'm also asking around for some spare netbook just in case Jun 09 18:20:57 gour: what's your problem? Jun 09 18:21:09 something relatied to meego not working on a virtual machine? Jun 09 18:25:35 CosmoHill: meego UI does not work...i can only get twm running which is not so thrilling Jun 09 18:26:11 unlike my experience with moblin which worked fully under VM Jun 09 18:26:43 Quick reminder that the next Technical Steering Group (TSG) meeting starts in about 35 minutes. Agenda and logistics here: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings Anyone can attend. Jun 09 18:27:00 thanks da Jun 09 18:27:39 good to get some names on the various roles now Jun 09 18:27:56 this is the TSG that people have been waiting for :) Jun 09 18:28:03 Structure + names Jun 09 18:30:36 * gour hopes meego will evolve into something so that we won't be forced to choose between apple & android Jun 09 18:31:34 DawnFoster: some names i recognise at least, others should pop out and say hi :) Jun 09 18:31:55 DawnFoster: http://meego.com/about/governance has some new links that are 404 Jun 09 18:32:20 just fyi :) Jun 09 18:32:20 gour: I've been using maemo and I'm happy with it Jun 09 18:32:29 meego for me is just the continuation of god work Jun 09 18:32:37 good -and- god work? ;) Jun 09 18:32:45 lbt, OBS ping NAG Jun 09 18:32:47 * lbt runs screaming Jun 09 18:33:02 vgrade: done nothing today... I'm bone idle Jun 09 18:33:19 thiago_home: well i'm looking for some more meego-enabled hardware....n900 is also a bit expensive Jun 09 18:33:35 lbt, get the message Jun 09 18:33:41 * Stskeeps wonders what vgrade needs obs for Jun 09 18:33:41 hahahahahahaha Jun 09 18:33:53 vgrade: please keep nagging ! Jun 09 18:34:04 gour: and the iphone isn't expensive? Jun 09 18:34:08 public humiliation always works for me ... Jun 09 18:34:09 price points are very similar there Jun 09 18:34:19 Stskeeps: translation: "It's not that we don't trust you or anything, but some of us would like our own build server..." ;) Jun 09 18:34:22 * TSCHAKeee2 laughs Jun 09 18:35:15 * lbt mentions http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Release_Creation Jun 09 18:35:32 thiago_home: well, at least here, ipod is available with some phone providers...same with htc devices, while none of the mobile-phomne providers offers n900...only possibility is to buy unlocked one which costs as e.g. 2 dell's 1012 netbooks Jun 09 18:36:33 question... should try and fix utf8/xml issues in my Qt app or import MeeGo 1.0 into community OBS ?? Jun 09 18:36:57 lord please a 5" screen meego phone Jun 09 18:37:16 lbt: yeah, those are the pages they are still editing :) Jun 09 18:37:21 pupnik_: won't happen. Meego only supports 4" Jun 09 18:37:21 we work in real-time here Jun 09 18:37:27 pupnik_: "phone" ;) Jun 09 18:37:39 DawnFoster: np... I'm just too quick Jun 09 18:37:42 :) well, 3g tablet Jun 09 18:37:53 :) Jun 09 18:38:02 yeah, we didn't say you could look at those pages yet ;) Jun 09 18:39:29 stskeeps, with no luck in getting access to EMGD, I offered to do some testing for lbt Jun 09 18:39:36 vgrade: makes sense Jun 09 18:39:43 admins can protect page, so they ar enot editable for a certain time DawnFoster Jun 09 18:40:05 stskeeps, only he is having EULA issues as I don;t have a N900 Jun 09 18:40:19 vgrade: not me... Jun 09 18:40:21 vgrade: legal stuff's a bitch sometimes :) information should be free! or something Jun 09 18:40:24 :P Jun 09 18:40:35 Erkan_Yilmaz: we know - we do that sometimes, but it seemed easier and more transparent to just edit the pages Jun 09 18:40:40 I was just info gathering so I could answer potential questions Jun 09 18:41:06 sure, I guess not everyone reads it anyways :-) Jun 09 18:41:15 X-Fade must have fallen asleep under a pillow or something... Jun 09 18:41:16 gour: oh, well, n900 wasn't made for mass-markets... Jun 09 18:41:37 gour: we've always said it's the fifth step in a six-step program Jun 09 18:41:47 um... 4/5 Jun 09 18:41:53 lbt: compile your app with QT_NO_CAST_FROM_ASCII and QT_NO_CAST_TO_ASCII Jun 09 18:41:57 Uffffffffffffff Jun 09 18:41:59 that will reveal your codec error Jun 09 18:42:09 * lbt knew you couldn't resist ;) Jun 09 18:42:12 Thanks Jun 09 18:42:35 you can have a free copy of Shopper for that! Jun 09 18:44:21 thiago_home: still, i hope it won't stay niche eternally...we want to write app to run on meego-powered smart-phone (it can be used on netbook as well, but smart-phone size iz more practical and make it more portable) is n9 6th step? Jun 09 18:44:28 InformatiQ: pingy.... Jun 09 18:45:43 gour: I will completely ignore the "n9" reference Jun 09 18:46:04 thiago_home: it is not certain? Jun 09 18:46:27 it's a bit unfair to ask qt people about what other depts of nokia does :) Jun 09 18:46:51 gour: no, it's just that I won't comment on a rumour about a device name Jun 09 18:47:20 thiago_home: ahh, ok. but n900's successor is supposed to be 6th step, right? Jun 09 18:47:27 gour: but, to answer your question, the sixth step (whichever device that is) is supposed to be a full-breadth device yes Jun 09 18:47:48 thiago_home: good...shall we see it this year? Jun 09 18:48:12 can't comment on that Jun 09 18:48:17 who deals with security in meego effort? Jun 09 18:48:40 personally I hope for the soonest, of course. Jun 09 18:48:53 but then again I would want to see the successor to the n900's successor tomorrow too :-) Jun 09 18:49:20 ok...however, it looks it will be arm device Jun 09 18:49:49 shazkhan: Ryan Ware does some of the security stuff for MeeGo Jun 09 18:50:08 gour: that's fairly known. there was this slide in maemo summit that harmattan will be omap3 as well, and since harmattan isn't coming to n900... logical step is what? Jun 09 18:50:11 :P Jun 09 18:50:49 shazkhan: http://meego.com/users/ryanware Jun 09 18:51:18 DawnFoster: big plus on not mentioning affiliation in the pages, btw Jun 09 18:51:21 heh...i just wonder what will be handheld ui used for then? Jun 09 18:51:23 thanks DawnFoster Jun 09 18:51:29 a timezone or general location would be good at some point, but so it goes Jun 09 18:51:51 Stskeeps: I think Valtteri is making the updates, so you can thank him :) Jun 09 18:52:12 Maybe I'll go through later and link to their meego.com profiles so people can find them more easily later Jun 09 18:52:29 :nod: Jun 09 18:53:13 someone poke me when the meeting is about to start :) Jun 09 18:53:47 * lbt passes CosmoHill a at Jun 09 18:55:39 * CosmoHill puts it in the draw for later Jun 09 18:56:54 DawnFoster: I cannot find any docs in which we can see whats up in security. If there is anything available then I'd like to try the sdk ...should I? I am more interested in the os base and middle-ware Jun 09 18:57:42 thiago: you think... http://pastebin.com/8sndF8iX maybe? :) Jun 09 18:58:08 shazkhan: Ping Ryan to see what documentation is available on security. Jun 09 18:58:25 k Jun 09 19:01:41 thiago_home: you think... http://pastebin.com/8sndF8iX maybe? :) Jun 09 19:04:10 lbt that looks painful Jun 09 19:04:19 lbt: that looks like a codec error Jun 09 19:04:25 QString's constructor uses Latin1 Jun 09 19:04:36 ISTR there was no QFile when I wrote that Jun 09 19:05:12 I'll rewrite that whole area Jun 09 19:05:22 anyhow... meeting Jun 09 19:06:28 lbt: you want QString::fromUtf8 or QString::fromLocal8Bit Jun 09 19:06:33 depending on which one is appropriate Jun 09 19:06:54 if it's XML, you may want to simply pass the byte array directly into QXmlStreamReader and it will detect the encoding according to XML rules Jun 09 19:07:35 makes sense... I was thrashing about when I wrote that a couple of years or so ago Jun 09 19:12:27 join #meego-meeting Jun 09 19:12:35 need a slash :) Jun 09 19:12:48 :) Jun 09 19:13:13 maybe it's an invitation .... Jun 09 19:13:18 what I get for trying to IRC while eating a pickle ;-) Jun 09 19:13:28 http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-06-09-19.03.log.txt if you want to catch up on meeting log Jun 09 19:13:50 thanks. Jun 09 19:30:08 can we have a "hands up" please.... and then Dawn can call on us when it's our 'turn' Jun 09 19:30:34 DawnFoster: ^^ Jun 09 19:30:35 ;) I wish there was a hands up smily Jun 09 19:30:56 not changing the process mid-way thru the meeting Jun 09 19:31:06 hand up in irc is too hard to manage with this many people Jun 09 19:31:35 yeah but it comes over as "shut up and wait your turn" ... and I'm sure it's not Jun 09 19:32:23 are module proposals sent to the dev list, or somewhere else? Jun 09 19:32:44 and is there a dev irc channel? Jun 09 19:33:01 sjokkis: yes Jun 09 19:33:06 sjokkis: it's this one here :-) Jun 09 19:33:17 how about also collecting questions before meeting on wiki? Jun 09 19:33:18 ah, i thought this was more of a general user channel Jun 09 19:34:15 Erkan_Yilmaz_, theres many ways practical Jun 09 19:34:25 ut usually the questions arent known until the meeting is in progress Jun 09 19:34:25 sjokkis: there are specific dev channels for some areas Jun 09 19:34:29 eg meego-arm Jun 09 19:34:52 lbt: is there a list somewhere? Jun 09 19:34:52 I guess when the topic would be more explicit before meeting, it could lead to more interesting questions Jun 09 19:34:55 we have had a -questions channel previously but it felt disjointed, so its an open meeting and i think passing the mic around is a good and fair way Jun 09 19:35:06 sjokkis: the meego wiki ... but not a list Jun 09 19:35:09 lcuk, yes Jun 09 19:35:18 Erkan_Yilmaz_, the wiki has overview of points to raise Jun 09 19:35:26 you can always discuss and make notes beforehand Jun 09 19:35:50 you can even suggest your own topics i believe - whether they will be discussed is another matter Jun 09 19:36:06 haha Jun 09 19:36:31 lbt: if i have a proposal for both the netbook and mobile versions, will i have to approach two teams? Jun 09 19:37:19 sjokkis, just start working, but from experience, taking a smaller application on mobile and expanding it to netbook/slate factor is easier and less troublesome Jun 09 19:37:39 theres nothing worse than finding out your UI doesnt work on a tiny screen Jun 09 19:37:52 but you can always stretch out on a netbook Jun 09 19:38:03 * TSCHAKeee2 hi-fives lbt for the good question Jun 09 19:38:40 lcuk: this is for zeitgeist, if you know what that is. it would be a matter of porting the daemon (may or may not involve any work at all), and then writing applications that use it for the netbook/mobile versions Jun 09 19:38:52 lcuk: those applications wouldn't necessarily be the same on both versions, of course Jun 09 19:40:21 with qt, why not? Jun 09 19:40:38 the applications could use QT, sure Jun 09 19:40:45 the daemon is in python Jun 09 19:41:24 why? Jun 09 19:41:40 just started that way, i guess Jun 09 19:41:49 it works very well. it's lightweight, so it doesn't really matter Jun 09 19:42:12 why there are two channels meego-dev and meego-devel? Jun 09 19:42:19 sure - for now, what if you get on a platform that doesnt support it ? Jun 09 19:42:28 a platform without python? Jun 09 19:42:51 if we're running on netbooks and smartphones, i don't really see why that would happen Jun 09 19:44:36 lcuk: you foresee it being a problem? Jun 09 19:44:59 mmm I don't think that really got discussed Jun 09 19:45:46 I think that is because everything mentioned by name is internal to MeeGo the product.... it kinda feels introverted Jun 09 19:45:50 sjokkis, we dont know what each instance will have, theres a lot of waryness related to additional components Jun 09 19:49:18 lcuk: but you require qt, in all instances? Jun 09 19:49:37 sjokkis, i dont require anything Jun 09 19:49:46 heh. meego, not you personally Jun 09 19:50:09 go and read the http://meego.com/developers/meego-api Jun 09 19:50:20 the only thing fixed there is qt Jun 09 19:51:20 http://meego.com/sites/all/files/users/u13/MeeGoArch1.png Jun 09 19:52:04 How much of the Nokia Maemo team (clearly a very talented bunch as evidenced) is working on MeeGo? Jun 09 19:52:36 orospakr: Nokia Maemo is now called Nokia MeeGo Jun 09 19:52:38 therefore, all of them Jun 09 19:52:45 neat! Jun 09 19:52:54 well, except for the remainder still working on Maemo 5 Jun 09 19:53:15 reasonable! Jun 09 19:54:02 thiago_home: what about maemo 6 ? has that been renamed meego ? Jun 09 19:54:11 pinchartl: merged into meego Jun 09 19:54:19 pinchartl: that is also meego Jun 09 19:54:26 harmattan is meego (somehow) Jun 09 19:54:34 *somehow* :-) Jun 09 19:54:48 lcuk: i can certainly see the argument for not wanting to include dependency on python, but i don't think it's a problem for smartphones today, and even less so for smartphones tomorrow Jun 09 19:55:01 and it obviously isn't a problem for netbooks Jun 09 19:55:30 this will probably be discussed for quite a while though Jun 09 19:57:30 sometimes I think these are more press-releases than meetings... Jun 09 19:57:50 feels that way a bit Jun 09 19:57:58 hehehe Jun 09 19:58:11 i'm still trying to figure out a way i can fit in. Jun 09 19:58:20 i seem to not fit neatly into ANY of the boxes Jun 09 19:58:21 same here Jun 09 19:58:26 party political broadcast, but one where we do talk and get feedback :) Jun 09 19:58:40 i mean, my work with LinuxMCE Jun 09 19:58:44 LITERALLY Jun 09 19:58:44 TSCHAKeee2, you want your app sat on meego - do it? Jun 09 19:58:45 TSCHAKeee2: well, like someone said earlier, there is no "outreach" from MeeGo. Jun 09 19:58:47 covers ALL of the "boxes" Jun 09 19:59:00 lcuk: I am, but I wanted to do it in the open. Jun 09 19:59:06 well, I said that :) Jun 09 19:59:08 i thought you were Jun 09 19:59:12 you are linuxmce? Jun 09 19:59:14 but someone asked who to contact Jun 09 19:59:23 *nod* just..trying to figure out how i fit in. Jun 09 19:59:35 lcuk: I am one of the lead devs. Jun 09 19:59:37 maybe you should ask DawnFoster TSCHAKeee2? She said she looks after devs? Jun 09 20:00:03 right TSCHAKeee2 so you have a role? Jun 09 20:00:03 and I am doing the port of LinuxMCE to MeeGo, as soon as our current release cycle ends. Jun 09 20:00:09 yes. Jun 09 20:00:15 TSCHAKeee2: well, the OBS will also help there Jun 09 20:00:27 but I feel that that is a skunkworks project Jun 09 20:00:38 well it gets interesting there, because we have our own build server/system heheheh Jun 09 20:00:41 and yes Jun 09 20:00:44 i feel it might very well be Jun 09 20:00:49 TSCHAKeee2, i dont get what you need permission for? Jun 09 20:00:58 not permission... Jun 09 20:01:06 guidance Jun 09 20:01:08 just trying to figure out where the hell i would best fit. Jun 09 20:01:14 then what stops your from hacking linuxmce front end onto meego? Jun 09 20:01:16 most likely way to succceed Jun 09 20:01:20 Well, that was thoroughly unenlightening. Jun 09 20:01:49 i thought it was quite informative Jun 09 20:01:59 * lbt really must investigate konversation to find a way to s/GAN900/Marvin_the_paranoid_android/ Jun 09 20:02:00 my goal is to put the entire linuxmce stack, on meego.. both the core, and the media directors. Jun 09 20:02:09 mind you, ive got blood pouring out of my mouth Jun 09 20:02:11 as well as making tablet environments, etc. Jun 09 20:02:21 and can barely talk, so i might be in the wrong frame of mind Jun 09 20:03:08 TSCHAKeee2, you want to recreate a new linuxmce using meego tooling? Jun 09 20:03:11 * VDVsx nominates GAN900 for the community office :P Jun 09 20:03:23 TSCHAKeee2: looking at the screenshots of linuxmce now. looks pretty rad. how much of it is working, and how much is just mockup? Jun 09 20:03:34 sjokkis: well...all of it. Jun 09 20:03:38 TSCHAKeee2: The best place to start that discussion is in the mailing list - give us a better idea of what you want to see happen and suggestions for how it might fit in Jun 09 20:03:41 TSCHAKeee2: all of it which? :p Jun 09 20:03:48 sjokkis: the whole stack has been around for 6 years now. Jun 09 20:03:55 sweet Jun 09 20:03:58 * thiago_home needs to talk to arjan in another subject too Jun 09 20:04:01 sjokkis: google video "linuxmce 0704 demo" Jun 09 20:04:06 what netbook models do people recommend? Jun 09 20:04:20 thiago_home: very happy with my 10" eee Jun 09 20:04:22 I'm trying to order one, but the one arjan recommended the Nokia Sourcing people told me they can't get to norway Jun 09 20:04:26 thiago_home: 10 inches is enough for most people Jun 09 20:04:42 sjokkis: Atom and Intel graphics? Jun 09 20:04:44 VDVsx, I totally missed that naming discussion. Jun 09 20:04:50 thiago_home: yes Jun 09 20:04:54 950? Jun 09 20:04:56 thiago_home, intel graphics that arent intel gma500 Jun 09 20:05:09 lcuk: and yes.. we have a _LOT_ of vestigial code, that was written before most of the free software world caught up... I would like to see how much of it can be replaced with upstream code. Jun 09 20:05:13 thiago_home: 1000H. though if i were to get one now, i'd get the upgraded version with 10 hours battery (or thereabouts) Jun 09 20:05:14 GAN900, http://meego.com/about/governance Jun 09 20:05:25 the one arjan recommended had a touchscreen w/ multitouch Jun 09 20:05:26 thiago_home: not sure. let me check Jun 09 20:05:37 TSCHAKeee2, hint, the Linux in LinuxMCE should tell me enough to know you were already in an open source world ;) Jun 09 20:05:38 thiago_home: http://wiki.meego.com/Devices Jun 09 20:05:49 VDVsx, too many words for me to read at work. :P Jun 09 20:06:00 GAN900, image at the end Jun 09 20:06:01 lcuk: hehehehe, what I meant was, Jun 09 20:06:01 thiago_home: 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GME Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03) Jun 09 20:06:17 *middle Jun 09 20:06:18 lol Jun 09 20:06:27 lcuk: just one example, we built an entire PnP layer, long before a lot of equivalent stuff existed "upstream" Jun 09 20:06:47 lcuk: and have been systematically peeling it back and replacing it with upstream stuff Jun 09 20:07:21 lcuk: we also wrote massive chunks of code to repair the system when things like graphics cards or network cards changed etc.. Jun 09 20:07:44 so you are a linux distribution unto yourselves Jun 09 20:07:52 lcuk: yes. Jun 09 20:08:02 we are built atop Ubuntu currently Jun 09 20:08:31 which was transposed over from an earlier build based on Debian. Jun 09 20:09:40 we took over the project, from the company that did the initial development...and it took us two years, just to wrap our brains around it. Jun 09 20:09:45 someone should invent MeeGo Certified Hardware stickers Jun 09 20:10:00 sx0n|home: I think you've just volunteered! Jun 09 20:10:13 heh Jun 09 20:10:27 sjokkis: watching the video? Jun 09 20:10:42 watching the matrix actually. hang on... Jun 09 20:11:31 sjokkis, first one? Jun 09 20:12:18 lcuk: yes. it's really good. too bad they didn't make any sequelss Jun 09 20:12:42 yeah sjokkis they wouldv been cool to watch Jun 09 20:13:39 I guess the reason I am being so inquisitive is... the one thing I DO not want to happen, is I don't want to work in a cave for X units of time, and do a big reveal... Jun 09 20:14:13 that sticker would need validation software Jun 09 20:14:49 TSCHAKeee2: this is pretty cool. how well does it work in unison with media centre applications such as xbmc? Jun 09 20:14:53 what font is used for the MeeGo logo ? Jun 09 20:15:38 TSCHAKeee2: or does it replace those? Jun 09 20:15:53 sjokkis: we provide a UPNP server, and we do use djmount to mount upnp shares elsewhere in the house (it is currently disabled pending some auditing work.)....but if you'd want to be able to control an xbmc instance, someone would need to write a DCE device to talk its HTTP API. Jun 09 20:16:07 sjokkis: tenatively, it replaces those...but there is nothing that states it can't work with them Jun 09 20:16:14 the HTTP API kinda sucks really Jun 09 20:16:20 sjokkis: yeah. Jun 09 20:16:40 sjokkis: the system can pretty much integrate anything. Jun 09 20:16:45 http-over-udp, who could have thought of that Jun 09 20:17:04 TSCHAKeee2: i'll spring for it when i've got my master's an a cushy consulting job Jun 09 20:17:13 sjokkis: to give you an idea, I've got a setup here utilizing an array of RFID transmitters for presence detection. Jun 09 20:17:17 thiago_home, the data isnt the issue? Jun 09 20:17:29 TSCHAKeee2: presence of what? you? Jun 09 20:17:32 theres many UDP services that use SOAP xml and stuff Jun 09 20:17:34 sjokkis: yes. Jun 09 20:17:38 TSCHAKeee2: can't it just detect your mobile phone? Jun 09 20:17:42 sjokkis: yes, it can. Jun 09 20:18:01 certainly saved you some effort there, didn't i Jun 09 20:18:13 sjokkis: technically ANYTHING that generates a presence detected event can be used to determine presence Jun 09 20:18:17 mobile and a bluetooth transmitter, and you're done Jun 09 20:18:19 sjokkis: i.e. pressing a key on a workstaiton keyboard, etc. Jun 09 20:18:22 sjokkis: hehheheh Jun 09 20:18:26 sjokkis: you're naiive Jun 09 20:18:31 ;) Jun 09 20:18:41 you haven't done that practically, i see. Jun 09 20:18:51 i have, so i know it sucks Jun 09 20:18:56 what do you use for your sensor array? zigbee? Jun 09 20:19:06 thats it, im getting this RFID tag implanted Jun 09 20:19:08 lots of different things Jun 09 20:19:35 i have a 1-wire bus, z-wave here..but we can pretty much deal with anything so long as somebody writes a DCE device for it. Jun 09 20:19:42 * lcuk pushes it in the hole from tooth Jun 09 20:19:44 we have drivers for lots of different automation buses Jun 09 20:20:01 Whatever happened to just openning images in a new goddamn window? Jun 09 20:20:02 lcuk: i think injecting it subdermally is a lot less effort Jun 09 20:20:09 * GAN900 is so tired of js image galleries. Jun 09 20:20:11 and a developer just added support for the TED 5000 energy monitor Jun 09 20:20:13 GAN900: what are we? animals? Jun 09 20:20:22 sjokkis, im just thinking of whats to hand, i had a tooth extracted today Jun 09 20:20:25 so i have room for it Jun 09 20:20:28 so that you can monitor energy consumption and act upon it. Jun 09 20:20:45 sjokkis, hmm? Jun 09 20:20:48 do you have support for any automated espresso machines? Jun 09 20:21:01 GAN900: images galleries not using javascript? it sounds barbaric Jun 09 20:21:03 the funny thing is, even with all that we can do now, we still have another good 20 years of polishing to do. Jun 09 20:21:07 sjokkis: they exist? Jun 09 20:21:22 there are coffee makers that can be set on a timer, sure Jun 09 20:21:29 sjokkis: if they did, a new device driver for them could be written in about 10 minutes. Jun 09 20:21:48 i don't know if they have any means of being controlled remotely Jun 09 20:22:13 but you have coffee machines that hook into the water pipes, and start on a timer Jun 09 20:22:22 sjokkis, i doubt theres a device on the planet that hasnt been put under the control of a linux kernel at some time ;) Jun 09 20:22:24 sjokkis, sounds like it wouldn't make it an absolute pain to view on my N900. :P Jun 09 20:22:26 of course, ground coffee goes stale overnight Jun 09 20:22:40 basically any device that is RS232/485, Ethernet, USB, Firewire, can have a driver written for it using our tools Jun 09 20:22:41 GAN900, argggg indeed Jun 09 20:22:46 i was on som silly flash site Jun 09 20:22:55 that needed me to pan in the flash to view images Jun 09 20:23:00 so long as there is a way to get data to it, and from it.. doesn't really matter. Jun 09 20:23:21 lcuk, for a supposedly mobile-oriented distribution, meego.com isn't always very mobile friendly. Jun 09 20:23:28 lcuk, ugh. Jun 09 20:23:46 GAN900, ohhh its something on the meego.com server? Jun 09 20:24:28 lcuk, that stupid governance page Jun 09 20:24:31 sjokkis: and in the case of let's say.. rs232 controlled AV equipment, we have code that detects if the equipment was manually switched, and adjust itself accordingly...also since the system knows how the devices are connected, to what ports ,etc... as well as how to control them, it adjusts all the remote control devices to send button presses etc to the right devices dynamically. Jun 09 20:24:36 JS gallery to view the diagram fullsize Jun 09 20:24:38 * TSCHAKeee2 turns off pitch mode and stfu. Jun 09 20:24:51 Which means tap, wait, tap, wait. . . . Jun 09 20:25:12 GAN900, i dunno i just middle clicked it Jun 09 20:25:17 and it opened in new tab Jun 09 20:25:32 lcuk, where's the middle click on an N900? Jun 09 20:25:47 It's not unfriedly to desktops Jun 09 20:25:52 i nearly made one last night :P Jun 09 20:25:57 (just freaking obnoxious) Jun 09 20:26:01 i was mucking about with the camera and gestures behind lol Jun 09 20:26:06 GAN900: click and hold while hanging upside down . :P Jun 09 20:26:17 :) Jun 09 20:26:19 in a dark room with the torch on you can basically map brightness to distance Jun 09 20:26:32 GAN900, tried tap hold / new window? Jun 09 20:26:55 be sure to twist your wrist, so you tap from the opposite end Jun 09 20:27:12 being double jointed helps. Jun 09 20:58:24 70 people in the meeting channel still Jun 09 20:59:11 CosmoHill, waiting for punch n pie Jun 09 20:59:43 maybe like me they were backreading Jun 09 21:01:28 or they slept in the meeting Jun 09 21:01:28 happened to some people today during the workshop I was in Jun 09 21:02:08 thiago_home, you need an air horn Jun 09 21:02:25 blown just regularly enough to wake them back up Jun 09 21:02:35 or find a way to make workshops engaging :P Jun 09 21:31:25 cyas **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 10 02:59:57 2010