**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 16 02:59:56 2010 Jun 16 06:20:39 what phones are supported? Jun 16 06:26:23 only phone I know of is n900 Jun 16 06:34:22 ic Jun 16 07:10:45 hi, has anyone tried running the widgets gallery app of harmattan ui fw in x86? Jun 16 09:13:02 hello Jun 16 09:13:40 is there any shortcut to access at zones-panel ? Jun 16 09:14:03 alt+tab doesn't work for me Jun 16 09:14:44 someone knows where I can get meego network panel sources? I don't find them on meego gitorious Jun 16 09:15:29 check repo.meego.com Jun 16 09:15:54 yes it's ok, I have them :) Jun 16 09:15:56 thanks Jun 16 09:44:12 how different is abrt-netbook to upstream abrt? Jun 16 10:07:15 anyone able to advise on where the icons for myzone and abrt reside? Jun 16 11:12:29 \nick Jun 16 11:44:00 nice there is a whole area for the community apps in the MeeGo Conference 2010 CFP Jun 16 11:47:00 http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010/DraftCFP Jun 16 12:02:29 tekojo: that's good to see community has a voice. Jun 16 13:05:52 http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/www.meego.com Jun 16 13:17:15 http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/www.nokia.com Jun 16 13:17:21 funny face expressions Jun 16 14:44:44 thiago: useful topic imo.. especially given how crucial good support of Qt is going to be Jun 16 14:51:17 I assume thise Qt patches are in the .src.rpm ? Jun 16 14:51:28 yes Jun 16 14:51:31 I know that they exist Jun 16 14:51:32 perhaps arjan or anaz could shed some light Jun 16 14:51:45 I know that some of them also come from the kde-qt patch list (which includes rejected patches) Jun 16 14:51:53 but I haven't looked into them and won't Jun 16 14:51:54 I got that, I'm assuming you don't formally acknowledge them as they've not been pushed upstream Jun 16 14:52:01 if they are relevant, I expect someone to submit to us Jun 16 14:52:13 and rightly so Jun 16 14:55:58 * w00t_ nods Jun 16 15:03:02 Morning Jun 16 15:07:31 evening CosmoHill Jun 16 15:08:07 hey th0br0 Jun 16 15:08:12 how're things? Jun 16 15:11:22 things are well Jun 16 15:11:31 Just need to get one result back to find out how I did for the year Jun 16 15:12:03 I think I might be able to get an A / 1st for the year Jun 16 15:15:13 sounds nice CosmoHill :) Jun 16 15:15:22 so what did you get on that game app you had to do? Jun 16 15:16:14 th0br0: did you see the email... Jun 16 15:16:18 uh lbt Jun 16 15:16:23 from which adress? Jun 16 15:16:35 (and no i didn't :( when did you send it to me?) Jun 16 15:16:43 to meego-dev Jun 16 15:16:49 and community Jun 16 15:16:55 and the forum Jun 16 15:16:56 lemme take a look Jun 16 15:16:58 and maemo Jun 16 15:17:00 and a blog Jun 16 15:17:02 :D Jun 16 15:17:20 * lbt has a sawn-off keyboard Jun 16 15:17:47 * CosmoHill hopes lbt isn't talking about his grade Jun 16 15:18:09 grade? Jun 16 15:18:27 tited? Jun 16 15:19:07 th0br0: 68% for the assignment, 64% for the exam so 66% overall Jun 16 15:19:19 http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-June/001041.html Jun 16 15:19:20 got it lbt Jun 16 15:19:42 CosmoHill: is that good? Jun 16 15:22:15 it's a mid B Jun 16 15:23:39 sounds good lbt Jun 16 15:23:44 i'm looking forward to hearing results of that letter Jun 16 15:23:49 or have there been some already? Jun 16 15:23:51 yeah.... Jun 16 15:24:03 (mind that i'll be going in 5 minutes as i've got some driving lesson coming up, I'll be back in an hour though) Jun 16 15:24:55 * lbt is reminded of a kernel error message "irq 10: nobody cared!" Jun 16 15:25:08 huh? Jun 16 15:25:17 k g2g Jun 16 15:25:21 l8r Jun 16 15:25:22 cyas th0br0 Jun 16 15:25:22 bye Jun 16 15:28:56 lbt: ? 'keyboard error or no keyboard present. Press F6 to continue" ? Jun 16 15:29:27 DocScrutinizer2: I meant the response to the Maemo on MeeGo request. Jun 16 15:29:42 hmm :-/ Jun 16 15:29:54 DocScrutinizer2: it's F11 on my computer Jun 16 15:30:02 ohh :-D Jun 16 15:30:12 some decades since I seen it Jun 16 15:30:19 "Keyboard not found. Press F11 to continue" Jun 16 15:30:41 it normally happens when my monitor isn't turned on in time Jun 16 15:31:00 now that makes sende :-P Jun 16 15:31:08 sense even Jun 16 15:31:12 the monitor has a USB which the keyboard is plugged into Jun 16 15:31:32 get a ps2 keyboard? :) Jun 16 15:34:20 * CosmoHill lols at a monitor stand sold as "the ulitmate threesome" Jun 16 16:12:03 *yawn* Jun 16 16:13:57 hi Myrtti. hows tricks Jun 16 16:14:57 third day trying to get Lucid working, outlook isn't too good and I'm getting tired of this Jun 16 16:15:22 otherwise ok. Hervanta looks nice, but I've been kept busy after returning to Finland with work so no time to play Jun 16 16:18:59 Lucid? Jun 16 16:19:33 my crack cocaine of choice, Ubuntu Jun 16 16:20:39 I'm vacuuming my room Jun 16 16:20:47 the dyson makes a good stalker Jun 16 16:21:06 I go and vacuum with the hose and the thing followed me about Jun 16 16:25:13 i don't know much about ubuntu, but i end up helping a lot of people with debian, Myrtti - what's the trouble? Jun 16 16:27:20 one of three kernels boots, rest fail with kernel panic about not be able to mount root partition, the one that boots has no swap and no TTY's that would work. Jun 16 16:27:33 but yeah, this is offtopic and I need to reboot. Again. Jun 16 16:29:39 impressive Jun 16 16:32:17 CosmoHill, new to canister vacs? Jun 16 16:32:33 back; lbt Jun 16 16:34:57 [comment on intel-meego] Jun 16 16:35:06 "They optimised it for LPIA as far as I can see, which pretty much turns me off MeeGo. I really not like seeing Intel work anything with Linux beyond drivers for their hardware. They would really like to bring it back to 1991 when kernel used every (miss)feature of x86 CPUs. But we do not have Digital now to port it to Alpha and abstract intelism." Jun 16 16:35:45 intel-meego? Jun 16 16:37:22 also, ssse3 is hardly lpia.. Jun 16 16:38:06 ssse3 is core2 and later Jun 16 16:38:15 which is like from 2006 Jun 16 16:38:29 and even fedora put a line in the sand of what cpus they support Jun 16 16:39:01 so yeah lbt. Jun 16 16:39:05 what is the current plan with that proposal? Jun 16 16:39:12 I built it Jun 16 16:39:20 i know that :P Jun 16 16:39:23 we need "the meego community" to say yes Jun 16 16:39:27 ok. Jun 16 16:39:34 * lbt is reminded of a kernel error message "irq 10: nobody cared!" Jun 16 16:39:47 as I said before ;) Jun 16 16:39:52 for people stuck on arm, they can use a different kernel if they want Jun 16 16:40:13 th0br0: although if no-one complains we'll do it anyway Jun 16 16:40:19 :D Jun 16 16:40:27 yeah i remember that nobody cared Jun 16 16:40:28 i would compare the atom situation like baselining on armv5 or even v7.. Jun 16 16:40:30 i just didn't really get it ;) Jun 16 16:40:42 which is sane practice Jun 16 16:40:44 but it's a sad commentary on the state of the meego community and the "welcome" they're supposed to be showing to Maemo Jun 16 16:41:11 Not surprising that talk.maemo.org generally doesn't like MeeGo.... Jun 16 16:41:13 lbt: guess a proposal on community meeting could work Jun 16 16:41:28 lbt: i think that is partly due to the small number of the meego communit Jun 16 16:41:29 y Jun 16 16:41:36 s/number/size/ Jun 16 16:41:57 maybe... but it was almost completely ignored Jun 16 16:42:08 *snerk* Jun 16 16:42:09 many that are contributing on the ml are intel/nokia employees, after all... and maybe they don't think that they have to comment it any further Jun 16 16:42:25 it's like "lets build a system but who cares if we have any users" ... sounds like moblin ;) Jun 16 16:43:05 true. Jun 16 16:43:16 lbt: unix philosophy maybe, no comment = go ahead! Jun 16 16:43:25 well, yes, we will Jun 16 16:43:43 but then again, the lack of public devices with meego leads to a lack of community, but we all know that anyway. Jun 16 16:43:54 but the social side means that we can't exactly go to the maemo community and say "look at the welcome you are getting" Jun 16 16:44:18 Although since MeeGo is designed for the elite only... Jun 16 16:44:18 true Jun 16 16:44:22 :D Jun 16 16:44:41 then again maemo community is currently spending a lot of time looking at its own navel Jun 16 16:45:19 Stskeeps: yeah... this would let us show some concrete direction for maemo.org builder Jun 16 16:45:20 i don't think that there is much difference between the two communities tbh. Jun 16 16:45:26 th0br0: there isn' Jun 16 16:45:28 t Jun 16 16:45:36 it's just that the maemo is bigger but in the end it's missing the very same momentum Jun 16 16:45:50 meh... Jun 16 16:46:03 Stskeeps, it's so full of lint and we can't figure out what to do about it! Jun 16 16:46:30 * lbt has been having a crappy afternoon cursing Ruby's lack of distro integration :) Jun 16 16:46:30 I still vote for cheesecake Jun 16 16:46:37 GAN900: lint with trolls living in it Jun 16 16:46:38 that'd be nice Jun 16 16:46:41 lint is a bad choice of words, GAN900 :P rpmlint ftw :D Jun 16 16:46:43 lbt: how so? Jun 16 16:46:56 Myrtti: I'd prefer the Portal cake. Jun 16 16:47:14 damn apple and their non-standard / functional PSUs Jun 16 16:47:24 th0br0: I'm new to ruby and it's the "gem install" vs "apt-get install" Jun 16 16:47:37 lbt: that's due to the packagers though :P Jun 16 16:47:43 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGHH NOW I LOST THE PAGE Jun 16 16:47:47 nah, it's Ruby that makes it hard Jun 16 16:47:47 here in fedora we got quite some gems that are packaged... Jun 16 16:47:53 oh yes Jun 16 16:47:53 Stskeeps, chicken and egg, though. Jun 16 16:48:05 Stskeeps, we tried reaching out early on, it got nowhere. Jun 16 16:48:06 but the ruby community have many more Jun 16 16:48:12 besides, I like the gem system. Jun 16 16:48:14 it's solved for perl Jun 16 16:48:20 I don't dislike it Jun 16 16:48:27 You can easily have multiple ruby versions installed simultaneously Jun 16 16:48:37 I don't like the lack of integration to dpkg/rpm Jun 16 16:48:40 :) Jun 16 16:48:41 lbt: oh crikey, now I can't get the image of us talking to Churchill the bulldog off my brain Jun 16 16:48:50 "oh yes" Jun 16 16:49:02 oh yes oh yes oh yes Jun 16 16:49:52 Churchill the bulldog? Jun 16 16:49:58 *nod* Jun 16 16:50:24 ah isn't that from some disney movie or so? Jun 16 16:50:41 TV ad Jun 16 16:51:02 ah, i don't watch tv, but i don't think we have that one here. Jun 16 16:51:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-bOjU4w9q4 Jun 16 16:52:31 well yeah, we definitely didn't hve that one here. but i think i saw it some time ago when i spent a couple of weeks in britain Jun 16 20:34:29 DawnFoster: i'm pondering if it would be useful to have a metric of people making the jump from for example maemo.org to meego sites/forums Jun 16 20:34:46 because at a random glance, i do seem to see more and more people from maemo.org showing up in meego.com Jun 16 20:34:53 how would we measure that? Jun 16 20:35:13 well, one way is through talk.maemo.org vs forum.meego.com membership/commonalities maybe Jun 16 20:35:20 difficult to measure.. Jun 16 20:35:31 true Jun 16 20:35:42 yeah, different usernames, email addresses, etc Jun 16 20:35:46 :nod: Jun 16 20:36:00 fair enough :) Jun 16 20:36:10 it would be interesting to know, I just don't know how reliable it would be Jun 16 20:36:35 especially good for Nokia to understand how effectively they are making the transition Jun 16 20:36:56 a common complaint is that people claim they're not welcomed in meego, .. even though i think part of it is that they're making up reasons that may not exist in practice Jun 16 20:37:09 so it would be one way to measure if it holds true for the silent members too Jun 16 20:37:35 Hehe Jun 16 20:37:44 yeah, I'm trying to decide if it's a vocal minority who aren't making the transition easily or a bigger issue Jun 16 20:37:52 Stskeeps, it's more subtle than simple unwelcomeness. Jun 16 20:38:21 It's certainly a sentiment shared by a large number of core Maemo people. Jun 16 20:38:27 i think it's a bit of both personally, ie, we're seeing a horde of new potential contributors who doesn't know three simple things: how to contribute, where to contribute and how to contact if they have issues Jun 16 20:38:33 It's clearly a problem that needs addressing. :) Jun 16 20:38:40 er, how to contact=who to contact Jun 16 20:39:09 I've been working on this: http://wiki.meego.com/Contributing_to_MeeGo Jun 16 20:39:23 yeah, i just read your post on fmc too Jun 16 20:39:27 would love help making it better Jun 16 20:39:31 :nod: Jun 16 20:40:10 an initial look is 'too verbose' and needs artwork to explain things in simple terms Jun 16 20:40:30 the reality is that the meego project is very different from Moblin & Maemo, and it isn't an easy transition Jun 16 20:40:32 yeah Jun 16 20:40:33 agreed Jun 16 20:40:46 in fact, we're moving from a developer/power user community to well, a product building community.. Jun 16 20:40:53 and it needs links to things like how to submit a bug Jun 16 20:41:10 we have a bunch of other useful into that we should be linking to Jun 16 20:41:15 :nod: Jun 16 20:41:23 and it needs to be simplified to make it easy to read Jun 16 20:41:42 i've probably been reading too many meego slides lately as i'm envisioning some meego characters in various activities as artwork :) Jun 16 20:41:48 right now it's a data dump from my brain onto paper - doesn't always translate well :) Jun 16 20:41:53 that would be awesome Jun 16 20:42:33 *wonders if we can work the crash character in somewhere* Jun 16 20:42:39 http://crashdb.meego.com/ Jun 16 20:42:48 he's my personal favorite Jun 16 20:43:39 I think losing the contributor angle is unfortunate Jun 16 20:43:57 Part if the vibrancy of maemo.org is its diversity. Jun 16 20:44:16 yes, but we couldn't manage a product if our lives depended on it.. Jun 16 20:45:02 what do you mean by "losing the contributor angle" Jun 16 20:45:06 * satmd points at :38 Jun 16 20:45:16 those 'contributors' are contributing ideas Jun 16 20:45:33 that'll hopefully get sorted once the public roadmapping goes live Jun 16 20:45:41 at least in terms of the projects Jun 16 20:46:07 DawnFoster: i think what i'm really missing is a big 'Contribute' button on meego.com Jun 16 20:46:28 DawnFoster, people who aren't platform devs. Jun 16 20:46:30 ie, a landing page for people wanting to get involved, either through their companies, as private persons, etc Jun 16 20:46:50 can i actually buy a meego device? or do i still have to remove orginal OS? Jun 16 20:47:02 Pretty much everybody in the Maemo Community right now really doesn't fit in MeeGo Jun 16 20:47:09 and that's a problem Jun 16 20:47:13 well, developer community does to some extent Jun 16 20:47:29 but I think much of that is perception more than reality Jun 16 20:47:33 lcuk: there isn't any released Jun 16 20:47:34 or timing Jun 16 20:47:40 lcuk: but eventually Jun 16 20:47:59 lcuk: Its not that hard to install, and it is pretty quick Jun 16 20:48:01 is there a cottage industry for people to get netbooks and install meego on it Jun 16 20:48:09 Perception is important Jun 16 20:48:22 If it's incorrect, obviously there's a problem. Jun 16 20:48:28 with meego essentially restarting, it will take a little time to get to where Moblin & Maemo were before Jun 16 20:48:30 lcuk: just realize that making the wifi work will probably take a little extra effort Jun 16 20:48:32 agreed Jun 16 20:48:36 lcuk: I'm still waiting for the netbook I ordered to arrive Jun 16 20:48:37 trixtur, there is a great amount of uncertainty about which machines are compatible and one persons simple is anothers fhard Jun 16 20:48:42 Always time Jun 16 20:48:46 I'm just trying to figure out the root cause of the problem Jun 16 20:48:53 * GAN900 has been hearing that line for far too long now. Jun 16 20:49:00 we're addressing symptoms now, and I think we're missing the root cause Jun 16 20:49:06 trixtur, words like that mean it will ALWAYS be easier to stick with the OS preinstalled Jun 16 20:49:11 lcuk: true, I installed it on my Dell Inspiron 1012 Jun 16 20:49:18 well, one part is that maemo.org wasn't exactly in good shape when meego got announced Jun 16 20:49:22 no active big projects, etc Jun 16 20:49:45 it was mostly a developer community and shell-shocked by the recent inflow of 'normal users' Jun 16 20:49:47 I know this has been a frustrating process. The reality is that it does take time to pull everything back together Jun 16 20:49:51 DawnFoster: perceived lack of n800 support seems to be a sticking point, as far as 2d vs. 3d Jun 16 20:49:58 hey people Jun 16 20:49:59 I know that people are tired of hearing that Jun 16 20:50:02 tmzt: err.. Jun 16 20:50:10 * thiago_home never used his N800 for anything useful Jun 16 20:50:16 it's a decoration piece on my desk Jun 16 20:50:21 Stskeeps: I'm basing that off of posts on the maemo forums Jun 16 20:50:28 though they worry about n900 too for some reason Jun 16 20:50:40 tmzt, lack of N900 support is much bigger Jun 16 20:50:44 Stskeeps, who says nothing was happening in maemo? Jun 16 20:50:56 the N8x0 userbase was already beaten down by Nokia Jun 16 20:51:04 lcuk: my own personal perception - there was some activities going on but not too organised Jun 16 20:51:09 So MeeGo didn't add anything different to be upset over. Jun 16 20:51:38 lcuk: a council (at that point) that wasn't really doing anything to facilitate, excepting Texrat for instance Jun 16 20:52:14 hi Jun 16 20:52:29 * GAN900 used his N800 daily from day 1 until the N900 showed up last September. Jun 16 20:52:57 Stskeeps, now we've got a council who're mostly ignored in the MeeGo sphere. Jun 16 20:53:11 GAN900: i haven't seen any direct proposals from the council as a whole Jun 16 20:53:11 I also saw people using their N810s extensively Jun 16 20:53:54 even as an ebook-reader Jun 16 20:54:11 Stskeeps, as a whole, perhaps not Jun 16 20:54:32 But I think that stems from being ignored as individuals initially. Jun 16 20:54:36 This is where MeeGo is a little different Jun 16 20:54:48 Texrat is the only one of us with energy left for it. Jun 16 20:54:52 we don't see the "community" as something separate that needs a council Jun 16 20:55:04 we want to get people involved directly in the project Jun 16 20:55:29 and pioneers to help get activities started for people to be involved within Jun 16 20:55:33 the way we have localization as part of the core meego project structure and translations being done solely by people from the community Jun 16 20:55:50 it's a more integrated approach Jun 16 20:56:06 Yeah. . . . Jun 16 20:56:06 I see too much of an "us" vs. "them" mentality right now Jun 16 20:56:24 Well, it's a hard thing to get over given Nokia's legacy Jun 16 20:56:30 however, it is more work to get people involved Jun 16 20:56:47 and MeeGo isn't doing a wonderful job of proving it's otherwise Jun 16 20:56:49 well, that one bends down to the fact there's people who have access to the current under wraps information and people who don't.. Jun 16 20:56:52 and harder for people coming over from Maemo to see the difference Jun 16 20:56:55 but that should change soon, hopefully.. Jun 16 20:56:56 i am a newbe and have trouble with http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_the_Beagle Jun 16 20:57:02 DawnFoster, what do you think the council's role is in maemo.org? Jun 16 20:57:20 Personally, I see a use for a body that repressents unaffiliated people Jun 16 20:57:24 does anyone use meego? Jun 16 20:57:25 GAN900: .. at the same time, could you iterate what you think that role is? Jun 16 20:57:30 exactly Jun 16 20:57:33 lcuk: me Jun 16 20:57:43 but we want unaffiliated people working directly in the project Jun 16 20:57:45 trixtur, :D how long have you had it on for Jun 16 20:57:58 not as some separate entity outside of the project Jun 16 20:58:02 and if i was a random joe, how would you describe it Jun 16 20:58:02 lcuk: since 1.0 release 1st day Jun 16 20:58:25 Stskeeps, facilitation, leadership for the community and distilling community opinion for Nokia Jun 16 20:58:45 as well as helping to communicate Nokia's positions to the community. Jun 16 20:58:53 I see the community as including Intel and Nokia, not something separate Jun 16 20:59:02 lcuk: its really fast, and in my mind it fulfilled my urgency for Google to release Chrome OS. I won't change if google does release now. I like MeeGo Jun 16 20:59:03 with all of us working together toward a common goal Jun 16 20:59:06 (forgive brevity and lack of clarity, I'm at work) Jun 16 20:59:16 DawnFoster, so do we at maemo.org Jun 16 20:59:17 maybe the curse is actually that we have a community office - giving the perception the 'outsiders' has to have a place for their various projects.. Jun 16 20:59:22 trixtur, do you carry your netbook around with you? Jun 16 20:59:27 of is it just for at home? Jun 16 20:59:35 lcuk: generally with me Jun 16 20:59:36 instead of that there's a method for those kind of projects growing under various WG's Jun 16 20:59:42 or areas etc Jun 16 20:59:54 oh cool, do you find all the apps you need, or have there been things missing? Jun 16 20:59:57 yeah, I think people misunderstand the community office Jun 16 21:00:08 it's really a community management function Jun 16 21:00:18 not where all of the community activity takes place Jun 16 21:00:21 lcuk: I mostly use webapps, I haven't really installed any MeeGo Apps Jun 16 21:00:36 what games are on it? Jun 16 21:00:41 ideally, to help people get involved in various aspects of the project Jun 16 21:00:43 lcuk: I don't know Jun 16 21:00:50 nothing preinstalled? Jun 16 21:00:51 lcuk: never cared to look...I don't play games Jun 16 21:01:12 or if I do I play them online Jun 16 21:01:25 just like I use Google Office for everything office-wise Jun 16 21:01:49 sure, its common now, but not always practical Jun 16 21:01:57 DawnFoster: agreed Jun 16 21:02:22 lcuk: maybe...but M$ has an online version of office now too' Jun 16 21:02:28 anyone else got any impressions of meego? are there games on the default install? Jun 16 21:02:49 trixtur, doesnt help do work on plane or abroad Jun 16 21:03:22 Actually they have offline apps to handle that issue Jun 16 21:03:39 I like the fact that it is Linux at the core Jun 16 21:03:51 lcuk: there are some games installed on the meego netbook version Jun 16 21:03:58 I never play them :) Jun 16 21:03:59 I'm a developer so for me its handly Jun 16 21:04:03 are they any good dawn? Jun 16 21:04:25 haven't even tried them *ashamed to say* Jun 16 21:04:27 trixtur, do you have a blog? Jun 16 21:04:32 lcuk: sorry I wasn't more helpful on your question. Jun 16 21:04:35 and have you posted anything about your meegoing Jun 16 21:04:35 yeah Jun 16 21:04:46 so, if we see MeeGo as a sort of virtual company doing a product.. what'd community office be? the people who make sure people can contribute and providing means and ways to extend the company with new and exciting areas? Jun 16 21:04:46 I'm addicted to that tetris blocks game on the n900 tho :) Jun 16 21:04:50 trixtur, not at all :) nice to chat with real users ;) Jun 16 21:04:50 um...no I haven't posted anything about MeeGo Jun 16 21:04:59 HR Jun 16 21:05:12 lol DawnFoster its great Jun 16 21:05:17 * lcuk plays chess quite often Jun 16 21:05:26 nice and simple and timeless Jun 16 21:05:37 lcuk: I told a friend of mine about it who lives in Florida. He installed it and is loving it as well... but he is another developer type Jun 16 21:05:54 I guess we need to write up a council proposal for MeeGo at some point. Jun 16 21:06:02 stskeeps: that's a good question, and I'm not sure how to answer it. Jun 16 21:06:16 its great for social networking sites...keeps them all well organized and such Jun 16 21:06:26 because what i'm at least seeing from where i'm standing, is the company being built up with QA departments, managers, and all that jazz :) Jun 16 21:06:26 GAN900: the point is that if we do this right, we don't need a community council Jun 16 21:06:39 DawnFoster, so you say Jun 16 21:07:02 GAN900: we get those people involved directly in the project. Jun 16 21:07:12 Personally, I'm not in agreement Jun 16 21:07:14 but we need people to contribute and earn those roles Jun 16 21:07:21 that's the biggest gap right now Jun 16 21:07:23 But I think it's a function of definitions Jun 16 21:07:50 Stskeeps: lots of companies have a community management function. Jun 16 21:07:55 You never answered my earlier question about what role you perceive the Maemo Community Council as filling. Jun 16 21:08:04 DawnFoster: :nod: Jun 16 21:08:34 Can anybody help me with the mic-image-creator command, please? Jun 16 21:08:57 ? Jun 16 21:09:10 I agreed with your definition (for Maemo) - to provide a conduit between Nokia and the community to represent outside interests. Jun 16 21:09:48 If we can get those people to earn official roles within the project, they can work from within and not as a separate entity Jun 16 21:10:51 DawnFoster, that's not the only function, though. Jun 16 21:11:00 Nor is it the primary function Jun 16 21:11:32 Having an elected body also helps to alleviate some of the cronyism and corporate favoritism of the "merit" system, too. Jun 16 21:12:17 company merit of actually pushing a product out and delivering is merit, even if it was transferred and seen as direct contributions in the open Jun 16 21:12:25 Personally, though, I think the parts of the Maemo Community that are currently not likely to be covered by meego.com (non-developmen contributors) should be. Jun 16 21:12:28 shouldn't neglect the people who do actually have talents Jun 16 21:12:59 Which increases the need for a body like the council Jun 16 21:13:27 In any open source project, there are a lot of ways for developers and non-developers to contribute Jun 16 21:13:33 again, look at localization Jun 16 21:13:44 Which increases the need for a body like the council Jun 16 21:13:47 There are very few major Maemo Community contributors who didn't start out as users Jun 16 21:13:51 Oops Jun 16 21:14:10 GAN900: yes, but there's several areas for people to help out in Jun 16 21:14:19 ie, moving from user to developer to .. Jun 16 21:14:23 And I think losing that evolution path would be unfortunate. Jun 16 21:14:43 which you will do if the whole of the community is focused on platform development. Jun 16 21:14:44 localization is part of the project structure, not something separate Jun 16 21:15:14 GAN900: i still don't see the problem. pioneer areas where there's work that's obvious has to be done Jun 16 21:15:22 the community right now is more focused on platform development because that is a prerequisite to getting something out to the users Jun 16 21:15:32 you are looking at a work in progress Jun 16 21:15:40 Clearly Jun 16 21:15:59 the focus will not be forever only on platform development Jun 16 21:16:13 right now, there are few users, because we have little for them to use Jun 16 21:16:15 Stskeeps, there's an awful lot of stop motion, though. Jun 16 21:16:18 this will change soon. Jun 16 21:16:43 there will be a huge focus on application development very soon Jun 16 21:16:58 and we are starting to focus more on users Jun 16 21:16:59 does Wine work on meego? is there packages Jun 16 21:17:34 lcuk: are you thinking of running games on a netbook? Jun 16 21:17:45 why not? Jun 16 21:17:50 LOL Jun 16 21:17:53 i play stuff on my x41 and x200 Jun 16 21:18:00 netbooks are weak sauce Jun 16 21:18:01 cpu at 600 and 800mhz respectively Jun 16 21:18:03 not really for games Jun 16 21:18:19 netbooks aren't that weak! Jun 16 21:18:21 fair enough Jun 16 21:18:23 i dont want wine for games tho Jun 16 21:18:26