**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 30 02:59:57 2010 Jun 30 03:38:55 WHAT PHONE HAS AN APP THAT CAN MAKE SKYPE CALLS WITHOUT USING YOUR MINUTES Jun 30 03:39:00 AND SEND SKYPE IM MESSAGES? Jun 30 03:39:03 uhhhh Jun 30 03:39:05 the N900? Jun 30 03:39:07 :P Jun 30 03:39:13 * TSCHAKeee2 shakes head Jun 30 03:39:22 $(#@$(#@ Droid commercials. Jun 30 03:47:05 Me too Jun 30 03:47:09 So sick of them Jun 30 03:47:40 It's too bad the MyNokia thing is such a mess Jun 30 03:47:55 The dinosaurs in charge REALLY need to go. Jun 30 04:39:01 Hello Jun 30 04:39:39 I was wondering what the procedure is for hardware developers to release their devices with meego on it. Jun 30 04:40:06 Is there anyone I can contact to provide me with more details on the procedure? Jun 30 06:18:36 Morning, all Jun 30 06:21:01 morning Jaffa! Jun 30 06:21:12 * tekojo going on and off like a yoyo Jun 30 06:23:45 Can handset be out today? Jun 30 06:23:55 Anyone knows?tks Jun 30 06:24:38 no? Jun 30 06:25:03 at least the repos are created http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux/ Jun 30 06:25:11 it's told that today you get some pre alpha release of meego for handsets, official release sometime in october and handset before end of the year Jun 30 06:29:35 fairly many hints point commercially supported launch of Nokian Meego to happen at Nokia World, not really earlier Jun 30 06:29:53 of course, I could be wrong :) Jun 30 06:44:39 test Jun 30 06:44:45 any news? Jun 30 06:46:51 tekojo: Morning, mate! Jun 30 06:58:52 So today is the Day any news about the new Meego for N900 with the full UX? Jun 30 07:01:52 yes Jun 30 07:01:59 i guess we're all waiting Jun 30 07:02:54 its like to wait for maemo PR 1.2 *lol* Jun 30 07:03:10 nothing can be like that Jun 30 07:03:15 now PR1.3.... Jun 30 07:03:27 well i dont belive that we will see a PR 1.3 Jun 30 07:03:40 I hope we do, 'cause I want Qt 4.7 Jun 30 07:07:14 it is now "Day One" in portland! Jun 30 07:07:23 (12:07am) Jun 30 07:07:28 yay Jun 30 07:07:34 will QT 4.7 really allow to recompile Symbian QT Apps for the Maemo what do you think thiago_office? Jun 30 07:07:38 it's already 1.375 here Jun 30 07:07:52 crown77: sorry? Jun 30 07:08:10 4.7 brings qml Jun 30 07:08:53 i heard that if we have a unique QT for Symbian and Maemo it will be easy to use Apps from Symbian for the N900 Jun 30 07:09:20 if you write a pure Qt app (no platform specific code, including QtMaemo5), then your code is cross-platform Jun 30 07:10:46 yay Jun 30 07:10:59 alright but i guess the platform code will be inside the most interesting apps for Symbian i thought about Navigon - Tomtom Navigation and so one Jun 30 07:12:16 if you write platform-specific code, you're restricted to the platforms you wrote code for Jun 30 07:39:42 tested last night meego with the flybook a33, it just hangs in the boot Jun 30 07:40:25 after that tested with the dual core atom board, worked ok...but the screen updating was little slow...maybe related to 1920x1200 resolution Jun 30 07:42:22 what processor does the a33 have? Jun 30 07:42:35 and what graphics chipset on the board? Jun 30 07:44:01 that's a Transmeta processor, right? Jun 30 07:46:02 does it have SSSE3 support? Jun 30 07:50:52 it doesnt Jun 30 07:52:19 then you can't use the netbook images. Those require SSSE3. Jun 30 07:52:21 but that laptop has touch screen, it seems that the meego gui would be suitable for touch screens Jun 30 07:52:32 it's meant to, yes Jun 30 07:52:54 i just came in, why can't he use meego again? Jun 30 07:53:30 ZogG: it's the second sentence in my line :-) Jun 30 07:53:49 what was the first and his one before Jun 30 07:54:06 then you can't use the netbook images. Those require SSSE3. - i'm interested in explanation here =) Jun 30 07:55:04 * ZogG has to re-compile damn xorg, once winkey works properly as in config as composite key, sometimes it switches screens as alt+F* Jun 30 08:04:03 heard some rumors that N900 Handsex UX 1.0 is coming out today, any truth to that? Jun 30 08:04:08 Handsex even Jun 30 08:04:10 aaaaaa Jun 30 08:04:13 Handset Jun 30 08:04:21 sorry :) Jun 30 08:12:28 dnaumov: It's supposed to be out in June. So it's either today or late. Jun 30 08:12:47 Jaffa which year =) Jun 30 08:12:53 heh Jun 30 08:13:16 doubt it would come today, with no preview, though saw at TMO someone mentioned that git was updated. Jun 30 08:13:30 Jaffa, is it Nokia UX or global one? Jun 30 08:13:47 as well as will it be demonstrated on n900 or n9? Jun 30 08:14:25 There's a TSG tonight all about the handset ux, it's the last day in june, conditions are ripe for releasing an early preview of the Handset UX Jun 30 08:14:54 oh if it's TSG it would be preview i assume Jun 30 08:15:05 I think it's been stated that the handset ux won't ship 'til MeeGo 1.1 anyway Jun 30 08:15:08 but on what device it would be presented? Jun 30 08:15:20 what we're all waiting on is a chance to work with the ux codebase Jun 30 08:15:21 slaine i hope we can get beta or alpha anyway Jun 30 08:16:26 ZogG, not being a maemo person or a nokia person, I can't say. At a guess, the n900 will be targeted as the developers platform for the handset ux codebase 'til nokia formally announce any meego specific nxxx meego hardware Jun 30 08:16:48 any idea if the handset ux is gonna be actually semi-useful in daily use or just a preview? Jun 30 08:16:51 ZogG: there is no N9 Jun 30 08:17:01 dnaumov: we'll find out tonight Jun 30 08:17:03 ZogG: and the N8 doesn't run MeeGo Jun 30 08:17:09 and after that will the N900 have still support by Meego? Jun 30 08:17:28 crown77: meego is an open community project, I don't see why not Jun 30 08:17:29 slaine: I thought development was supposed to be open, yet noone knows details? :) Jun 30 08:17:30 ZogG: sorry I also forgot to reply Jun 30 08:17:37 ZogG: SSSE3 is a requirement Jun 30 08:17:39 dnaumov: that's whats happening today Jun 30 08:17:46 ZogG: if your CPU doesn't have that, you need to recompile MeeGo Jun 30 08:18:06 thiago 1) i think there is prototype of n9 at least 2) there are some leaked pics Jun 30 08:18:49 ZogG: leaked doesn't count Jun 30 08:19:00 prototypes, if they exist, don't count either Jun 30 08:19:00 dnaumov the open source was great till corporations started to use it for their purposes Jun 30 08:19:07 thiago why not? Jun 30 08:19:21 wazd, \o/ Jun 30 08:19:32 because prototypes are private Jun 30 08:20:31 dnaumov: it's quite usable already, though don't expect being able to use cellular stuff yet Jun 30 08:21:03 Aard: ah, doh :/ that kinda rules it out for me Jun 30 08:21:29 Aard: I would need calls/sms/data, web browser and exchange syncing to work at a bare minimum Jun 30 08:21:40 ZogG: until there's an official announcement talking about a device called N9, no such device exists Jun 30 08:21:49 ZogG: *I* don't know if it will be called N9 Jun 30 08:22:00 thiago, you know what i mean Jun 30 08:22:08 are you Noia's employee ? Jun 30 08:22:10 yes, I am Jun 30 08:22:14 which is why I am correcting you Jun 30 08:22:17 there is no N9 Jun 30 08:22:20 ok, now i see ) Jun 30 08:22:32 dnaumov: hehehehe.... Jun 30 08:22:37 dnaumov: calls/sms/data depends on your hardware. browser is present, don't expect exchange sync Jun 30 08:22:49 hardware is n900 Jun 30 08:23:01 thiago, are you meego dev as well? Jun 30 08:23:25 ZogG: no Jun 30 08:23:26 * lbt wonders if people understand what an early code-oriented release is? Jun 30 08:23:38 dnaumov: well, good news is that you've got the change to do some work on your own... :p Jun 30 08:23:55 lbt: you see why TPTB didn't want to release early? :-) Jun 30 08:23:58 thiago, any relation to project? Jun 30 08:24:17 ZogG: yes, Qt development Jun 30 08:24:27 thiago: IMHO they released too late Jun 30 08:24:41 lbt, for me it means community can start porting and optifing it to N900 =) Jun 30 08:24:41 lbt: I know the feeling Jun 30 08:24:42 this is a "big reveal" of a "not working" system... Jun 30 08:24:52 unfortunately, I also know *why* things are slow Jun 30 08:25:12 thiago, can i ask your work related question? Jun 30 08:25:14 the whole "tada!" "but it's not actually working... sorry we got you all excited" Jun 30 08:25:30 ZogG: yes Jun 30 08:25:40 ZogG: I am at work, so I can answer work-related questions :-) Jun 30 08:25:54 thiago, all the symbian>maemo/meego port with qt sdk is easy now - right? Jun 30 08:27:45 ZogG: hopefully, yes Jun 30 08:28:40 i just wonder, as we saw the videos of Nokia with some programs ported to maemo from symbian, the question is "Is nokia waiting to release them to meego or we would get at some point them to maemo5 as well, or it was only the proof on concept videos?" Jun 30 08:30:06 I don't know which apps you've seen Jun 30 08:30:15 and I am not involved with the app development Jun 30 08:30:32 however, we do want people to write their apps for both Symbian and MeeGo Jun 30 08:30:48 that's the whole reason why we provided Qt for Maemo5 too Jun 30 08:32:37 thiago, it's make easier for to use the written programs or for devs of non-free apps, but what about existing apps, let's say i saw shazam on N900 on one of the vids, but stil lwe don't get it =( Jun 30 08:33:11 is that a Qt-based app? Jun 30 08:34:06 thiago, it was presented on the video of QT porting with Nokia Qt SDK Jun 30 08:34:34 I'm having a hard time understanding you Jun 30 08:34:39 please make shorter, simpler sentences Jun 30 08:35:12 hi all .. .i am working for a tablet pc manufactuere and i now need to look into meego ... Jun 30 08:35:55 thiago, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsHc53B5PBs Jun 30 08:35:56 i wonder how far i can access the kernel as i need to integrate our touchscreens into it. Any good hints or wikis i can look for that Jun 30 08:36:16 rob_w, have checked the off site? Jun 30 08:36:26 off site ? Jun 30 08:37:04 rob_w, official site Jun 30 08:37:20 rob_w: kernel development happens in kernel.org Jun 30 08:37:32 rob_w: for meego, you're supposed to develop your modifications and propose them to kernel.org Jun 30 08:37:45 and then work with the kernel team to ensure that your hardware remains supported Jun 30 08:38:00 http://meego.com/developers/hardware-enabling-process - maybe this can help as well Jun 30 08:38:07 ok thats good as you say that Jun 30 08:38:36 rob_w: now, if you're shipping a device with MeeGo on it, you can build your own kernel and not seek integration of the patches... Jun 30 08:38:39 well i got my touchscreens all working with "normal" linux xorg .. so i am searching for the meego specific parts Jun 30 08:38:45 but that's not the preferred path Jun 30 08:39:06 do you have multitouch touchscreens? Jun 30 08:39:26 ZogG: ok, I'm seeing the video. What about it? Jun 30 08:39:39 ur right thiago but my drivers are mostly Xorg related and they are pretty slow in taking stuff so i am mostly stuck to integrate it myself Jun 30 08:39:57 understood Jun 30 08:39:59 no multitouch sofar but we have resistive and digitizers Jun 30 08:40:17 but why does X require drivers? Shouldn't evdev be enough? Jun 30 08:40:24 i am still at the start with meego , is tehre a Xorg running Jun 30 08:40:52 take the netbook image. Yes, there's an X.org running. Jun 30 08:41:01 well it has historical reasons .. but i love to get them as evdev compilant device Jun 30 08:41:15 excellent Jun 30 08:41:19 thiago, so it's Qt and it was ported, my question is it only "proof of concept" video or Nokia would actually port already existing apps? Jun 30 08:41:27 evdev would be the preferred path, since that only requires a kernel driver Jun 30 08:41:35 X.org would be "immune to changes" Jun 30 08:41:43 ^ agree Jun 30 08:41:49 ZogG: that app is not made by Nokia Jun 30 08:42:11 ZogG: whether the software maker decides to publish the app for more than one platform, it's their choice Jun 30 08:42:27 will i get Xorg dev and be able to roll my own image when i use the meego devkit ? Jun 30 08:42:31 ZogG: now, what we (Nokia) want is that they do. And we're trying to provide the tools to do it. Jun 30 08:42:41 rob_w: for a device-creation SDK, yes Jun 30 08:42:50 but Nokia works with them, i know the story - when you ask dev nd they send you to ask Nokia, when you ask Nokia they send you to devs Jun 30 08:42:53 rob_w: you can patch the source code of anything in meego and rebuild it. Jun 30 08:43:07 wonderfull Jun 30 08:43:36 * rob_w starts downloading Jun 30 08:44:10 ZogG: I can't comment on Nokia-partner relationships and don't even know what goes on in there Jun 30 08:44:21 ZogG: what I can tell you is that we want as many apps as possible, on both platforms Jun 30 08:44:29 thnx Jun 30 08:44:31 we want to make it easy for anyone to make apps for both devices Jun 30 08:44:46 though, the latest article said "it's about quality, not quantity" Jun 30 08:45:07 so it will be the normal way .. i get the sdk .. work blood and tears with it .. get some patchs and send them to the meego mailinglist ? Jun 30 08:45:16 rob_w: no Jun 30 08:45:19 rob_w: you send them upstream Jun 30 08:45:20 or does my comany need to be involved ? Jun 30 08:45:32 if you modify the kernel, send to the LKML Jun 30 08:45:37 if you modify X.org, send to xorg-devel Jun 30 08:45:49 if the patches are rejected, rework them Jun 30 08:46:23 if they aren't accepted in a timely manner, that's another story. Then you can come to meego-dev and say "hey, meego is working on my device, this patch is required to work and is in the queue for upstream" Jun 30 08:46:33 we don't want to maintain patches in meego Jun 30 08:46:45 so those should be the exception, not the rule Jun 30 08:46:55 well said Jun 30 08:47:05 kk Jun 30 08:48:40 thiago, as you are one man involved .. how could my company become "one-on-the-list" of the official meego site ? Jun 30 08:49:03 rob_w: that I don't know Jun 30 08:49:15 rob_w: Contact LF? Jun 30 08:49:16 np thanks anyway for the quick answers Jun 30 08:49:18 you should contact the Linux Foundation Jun 30 08:49:28 ah Jun 30 08:49:59 thiago, i sent email to the devs, let's see the answer =) Jun 30 08:56:59 omg my touchscreen is working already .. what a joy Jun 30 08:57:43 rob_w, what device? Jun 30 08:58:17 hi Jun 30 08:58:52 a slate tablet pc ... i dont wanna do commercials in here Jun 30 08:59:09 when will the meego tablet alpha be released? Jun 30 08:59:26 how much diskspace will mego take when i install it as ext3 ? is 4GB quite enough ? Jun 30 09:00:24 rob_w: btrfs is recommended Jun 30 09:01:11 why is taht ? Jun 30 09:01:16 I don't know Jun 30 09:01:19 more modern, maybe Jun 30 09:02:06 thats ok .. i go for ext3 for now but thanks for the hint Jun 30 09:03:48 anyone knows when the meego tablet preview release will be out? Jun 30 09:04:07 they say today, but nobody knows exact time/date Jun 30 09:04:08 pipposanta: you've already asked that Jun 30 09:04:22 oh a tablet preview .. Jun 30 09:04:30 thats for me then :-) Jun 30 09:04:39 will it be compatible with atom? Jun 30 09:04:54 i expect not Jun 30 09:04:54 i bet ^ Jun 30 09:05:07 then they fail hard Jun 30 09:05:11 the intel tablet pre-alpha you saw on youtube was, obviously, intel Jun 30 09:05:33 good Jun 30 09:05:34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqeeQd-YNL0&feature=player_embedded Jun 30 09:05:46 i think today there will be a n900 version, and later on an atom Jun 30 09:07:39 lets hope the installer doesnt destroy my existing partitions .. Jun 30 09:07:58 mirr0r: n900 isn't a tablet Jun 30 09:10:42 lol Jun 30 09:10:54 that apple icon is real Jun 30 09:13:16 damn the installtion sits at "installing bootloader" and doesnt finish Jun 30 09:14:22 i hope nokia delivers a real battery champion tablet Jun 30 09:15:35 pupnik_: who said anything about a Nokia tablet? Jun 30 09:16:09 i do. they tried a netbook already Jun 30 09:16:15 thiago: engadget ;) Jun 30 09:16:30 engadget does? Jun 30 09:17:02 this: http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/21/nokia-7-or-9-inch-meego-tablet-rumored-to-be-running-arm-in-q4/ ? Jun 30 09:17:18 oh :) Jun 30 09:17:54 why does nokia keep reading my mind and making devices i want Jun 30 09:18:10 :0 Jun 30 09:18:14 note the content of the article, that the rumour is likely to be false Jun 30 09:18:17 even engadget says so Jun 30 09:18:36 and the device pictured is the same as the tablet shown by Intel -- I don't think Intel demonstrates ARM-based devices Jun 30 09:18:59 oh well then i should spec one for nokia :) Jun 30 09:19:42 Somebody pulled that prediction out of a specific part of their arse known as "I would really like one of these" ;) Jun 30 09:20:08 I would too Jun 30 09:20:19 but I'll be happy with a 10" netbook with a touchscreen Jun 30 09:20:30 those are already on the market Jun 30 09:21:07 i'd say a 10" convertible netbook with a wacom touchscreen... and 10 hours real battery life... Jun 30 09:21:39 That makes it a device that'd get you through a day at school/work, without charging - and a day at a convention where it's in standby a lot Jun 30 09:22:18 and the wacom surface would mean i could sell it to vast numbers of people i know ;) Jun 30 09:22:32 Forget cintiqs, just get one of these babies! ;) Jun 30 09:22:46 http://shop.lenovo.com/us/notebooks/ideapad/s-series/s10-3t Jun 30 09:23:32 *nods* Jun 30 09:24:32 But that doesn't have a wacom surface, right? Jun 30 09:24:46 anyway, i must be gone - got a graduation ceremony to attend and such ;) Jun 30 09:24:49 back later! Jun 30 09:27:16 hello ? Jun 30 09:28:43 hello prashanth Jun 30 09:28:55 k i am up and running . Jun 30 09:29:13 but i cant find a Xorg.conf nor Xorg.0.log in the normal places Jun 30 09:29:34 rob_w: configuration is guessed from hal Jun 30 09:29:45 rob_w: you can write the Xorg.conf file to change the defaults Jun 30 09:30:40 right Jun 30 09:30:44 i found the log Jun 30 09:31:18 ah isee alot moblin stuff runnign .. thats where it all went Jun 30 09:31:35 thiago: the touchscreen stuff doesn't use HAL anymore Jun 30 09:31:39 it's all udev now Jun 30 10:51:31 so there are a couple of us (me+ccooke) looking at how to handle ruby/gems in meego ... just FYI Jun 30 10:52:47 lbt cool, i havent seen ccooke speaking for a while. where are you hiding out? Jun 30 10:52:58 #ruby Jun 30 10:53:05 and other places Jun 30 10:53:11 * lcuk giggles Jun 30 10:53:34 take a hit and pass it on ;) Jun 30 10:53:43 aww ;) not where i tohught it would be :p Jun 30 10:59:36 lcuk: hiya :-) Jun 30 11:00:04 \o morning charles Jun 30 11:00:25 just :D Jun 30 11:00:48 indeed Jun 30 11:08:24 http://goodwordsrightorder.com/?p=197 Jun 30 11:08:26 hehe Jun 30 11:14:31 "Note: MeeGo will not work on non-SSSE3 CPUs" Jun 30 11:14:38 what is the reason for this? Jun 30 11:15:57 kray: on non-technical level: intel targets meego specifically for atom CPUs (and "better") Jun 30 11:16:31 kirma: and it does not have fallback for non-sse3 cpus? Jun 30 11:17:28 Kray: it would require work on the toolchain, additional testing... Jun 30 11:17:39 basically, it's not in their interest to provide a fallback. Jun 30 11:17:41 Kray, no, hnce why it saying it won't work on non-SSSE3 CPU's Jun 30 11:17:54 Kray: some things work on non-SSSE3 but not everything Jun 30 11:18:33 why i have feeling that sse3 is required is purely because of intel's marketing department... Jun 30 11:18:44 SSSE3 Jun 30 11:18:49 three 'S's Jun 30 11:18:49 (C) Jun 30 11:19:16 basically I've been told it's because intel have that hardwhere Jun 30 11:19:55 nice that they are finally utilizing, i have always wondered why cpus have that :) Jun 30 11:20:02 it's like what I do. I develop for the hardwhere I have cos I can't afford other hardwhere Jun 30 11:21:42 Kray, we are assured that ssse3 makes a huge difference for Atoms. Jun 30 11:21:50 No numbers to back that up though Jun 30 11:22:00 hey slaine Jun 30 11:22:08 Hey CosmoHill Jun 30 11:22:20 http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/cc/cluster1.jpg :) Jun 30 11:22:33 my work so far Jun 30 11:25:11 one master and two slaves Jun 30 11:25:26 I'd like to thing that I can get distCC working on that and recompile meego Jun 30 11:26:05 CosmoHill: read up on icecream.. its scheduler is a useful improvement over distcc Jun 30 11:26:16 thanks Jun 30 11:26:18 I will Jun 30 11:26:30 I really need to write up everything I've done so far Jun 30 11:26:59 CosmoHill, I have found out your secret. Jun 30 11:27:13 CosmoHill, Secretly, you an a big apple fanboy! - http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/audio-work.jpg Jun 30 11:27:24 your a big* Jun 30 11:27:33 :P Jun 30 11:27:35 hehe Jun 30 11:27:45 that was my desk when I was doing audio work Jun 30 11:28:00 My powerbook is my every day computer Jun 30 11:28:12 the powermacs are either dead or used for learning linux Jun 30 11:28:37 hey dazo Jun 30 11:28:54 CosmoHill: hey Jun 30 11:29:28 oh that's right, I was making tea about an hour ago Jun 30 11:32:56 dazo: http://black-flag.co.uk/files/rhel6-nvidia.png :) Jun 30 11:42:04 wb dazo Jun 30 11:42:52 gah ... freenode is really crappy today .... other irc servers like oftc is rock solid Jun 30 11:43:22 dazo: what server are you on? I'm on "holmes" Jun 30 11:48:19 CosmoHill: kornbluth, jordan and gibson usually ... I got a proxy which reconnects me to the next one automatically Jun 30 11:50:22 wb Jun 30 11:50:28 ...again Jun 30 11:52:41 my desk is so clean :D Jun 30 12:24:35 hey luck Jun 30 12:44:59 русские есть? )) Jun 30 12:46:24 night_amir: maybe, maybe not Jun 30 12:46:42 )) Jun 30 12:46:54 (the only thing I understood was the ? and the smile) Jun 30 12:51:30 CosmoHill: he asked if there are any russians in here Jun 30 12:54:04 yo Jun 30 12:54:12 where is meego download for n900 Jun 30 12:54:28 wasnt it suppose to come out on the 30th of june Jun 30 12:54:34 i'll tell you if I can 1. find it and 2. can't get to it within 5 clicks Jun 30 12:54:49 * unkletom slaps CosmoHill with Ozzy Osbourne Jun 30 12:55:30 unkletom: took me two clicks Jun 30 12:55:37 a three click would start the download Jun 30 12:55:57 dazo: your connection sucks Jun 30 12:56:18 http://meego.com/downloads/releases/meego-core-software-platform Jun 30 12:56:22 is this the new download? Jun 30 12:56:39 that's the one Jun 30 12:56:52 man Jun 30 12:56:56 The handset ux isn't out yet, which is what I think you're looking for Jun 30 12:56:59 this doesnt seem user friendly Jun 30 12:57:17 the 30th of june isn't over yet though Jun 30 12:57:36 is the install going to be user friendly? Jun 30 12:57:51 we'll find out when they release it Jun 30 12:58:03 ok Jun 30 12:58:09 now you know as much as we do Jun 30 12:59:09 * CosmoHill dances cos his french family have arrived :D Jun 30 13:00:29 Any reason why the meego-packaging list archives are private? Jun 30 13:00:52 http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-packaging Jun 30 13:01:19 X-Fade: bug already got filed on it Jun 30 13:01:26 Ok ;) Jun 30 13:01:35 #3634 Jun 30 13:13:21 hi Jun 30 13:13:33 hi rawtee Jun 30 13:13:37 dos skype work on meego? Jun 30 13:14:00 does Jun 30 13:14:32 and does it support major video formats? Jun 30 13:15:13 rawtee, little early for questions like that Jun 30 13:15:30 Don't let the idiots in marketing fool you with the 1.0 designation Jun 30 13:16:16 started watching the B5 movies again yesterday, ah, good stuff Jun 30 13:17:12 sorry got disconnected Jun 30 13:17:59 so this os is nowhere near ready to be used as a windows replacement? Jun 30 13:19:05 I suggest you wait a while to let the project mature before asking yourself if its an anything-replacement Jun 30 13:19:27 * Aard thinks he missed the "replace windows" item on the roadmap Jun 30 13:19:38 Aard, :P Jun 30 13:20:12 rawtee1, well, first, it's not intended to replace Windows. Jun 30 13:20:26 Aard, number one bug in Ubuntu is "gain more marketshare than Windows" :P (I believe) Jun 30 13:20:58 Termana: yeah, I've seen that long time ago. prefer to stay away from ubuntu, though Jun 30 13:41:25 where is meego for n900 Jun 30 13:41:40 quite "meeger" Jun 30 13:43:03 unkletom: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/images/meego-n900-open-armv7l/ ? Jun 30 13:43:10 nono Jun 30 13:43:26 there is supposed to be a userfriendly n900 meego install today the 30th Jun 30 13:44:05 http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/22/nokia-pre-alpha-release-of-meego-for-handsets-coming-june-30th/ Jun 30 13:44:32 unkletom: didn't you ask about this an hour ago ? Jun 30 13:44:43 so maybe there are updates? Jun 30 13:45:01 30th isn't over yet, so keep an eye out Jun 30 13:45:15 well Jun 30 13:45:18 business hours almost over Jun 30 13:45:22 for who ? Jun 30 13:45:26 unkletom: "user friendly" and "first release" rarely go hand in hand Jun 30 13:45:45 US West coast hasn't even woken up yet Jun 30 13:45:48 where does it state it's supposed to be user friendly? :) Jun 30 13:45:54 Nokia is finnish based Jun 30 13:45:56 so Jun 30 13:46:13 I don't know too many userfriendly-pre-alphas Jun 30 13:46:14 slaine, managers. their work days ends at <1600 Jun 30 13:46:20 unkletom: even in Finland the day is not over ;) Jun 30 13:46:24 Yeah, I'm a manager, I know :) Jun 30 13:46:33 I'm a oil sheikh Jun 30 13:46:46 "userfriendly" is also not what I would describe an alpha release as Jun 30 13:46:48 Cool, send some my way then :) Jun 30 13:48:05 and it's not like they are putting finishing touches on whatever they are releasing Jun 30 13:48:14 quite a meager meego release Jun 30 13:48:35 so, nokia is finnish based, but nokia has offices all over the world Jun 30 13:48:51 and meego isn't just nokia Jun 30 13:48:57 unkletom: Afaik it will be handset UX day 0. Which means code is submitted to the repo? Jun 30 13:49:01 yeah im sure a distruction center in the USA or w/e is going to relaease it Jun 30 13:49:08 distribution* Jun 30 13:49:13 Not a release ready to be flashed to your device. Jun 30 13:49:24 that's not coming til meego 1.1 Jun 30 13:49:39 UX destruction center, yeah Jun 30 13:49:57 sounds about right actually ;) Jun 30 13:50:10 yup :) Jun 30 13:50:11 fucking twats Jun 30 13:50:13 lol Jun 30 13:50:22 always full of shit you nerds on irc Jun 30 13:50:27 dont know shit Jun 30 13:50:45 X-Fade, day 1 Jun 30 13:50:46 never able to give a straight answer Jun 30 13:50:47 lolz Jun 30 13:51:01 Termana: Right, well coders start to count from 0 ;) Jun 30 13:51:06 but I do know Schitt, does that count? Jun 30 13:51:20 * GAN900 wonders when we'll see the first 335i running MeeGo. Jun 30 13:51:20 X-Fade, yes I know that :P But they are calling it Day 1 Jun 30 13:51:34 Termana: Then now it is day 0 ;) Jun 30 13:51:52 :P Jun 30 13:52:32 X-Fade: From how Quim's described it, it will at least be runnable on *something* Jun 30 13:52:46 Jaffa: Sure if you compile it yourself? Jun 30 13:52:55 unkletom: well, straight answer is that you most probably won't get flashable userfriendly image of meego for N900 today. Jun 30 13:53:09 unkletom: any more satisfied? :) Jun 30 13:53:18 Let me learn you something Jun 30 13:53:28 X-Fade: Netbook UX was runnable on Day 1 Jun 30 13:53:30 Jaffa: technically, the mtouch stuff is runnable *now* if you sacrifice the right amount of chickens to get it working Jun 30 13:53:31 Join #meego-arm and you would already know whats happening Jun 30 13:53:48 (though I expect a lot more than that) Jun 30 13:54:01 w00t_, more chickens? Jun 30 13:54:04 :P Jun 30 13:54:04 w00t_: Indeed; although javispedro pointed out recently that "running on scratchbox" was one of the chiekns Jun 30 13:54:47 Jaffa: not necessarily, I ran bits and pieces on my laptop a while ago Jun 30 13:56:28 w00t_: Well, more specifically Maemo 5 and N900/ARM chickens weren't compatible ;-) Jun 30 13:56:32 (FWICT) Jun 30 13:57:05 Jaffa: ah, right. bit of a different kettle of fish :-P Jun 30 13:57:30 these guys dont know anything. if you are the nabs that are actually going to make apps or w/e for the meego community its going to fail bad Jun 30 13:57:47 ":D" Jun 30 14:02:22 wow Jun 30 14:02:26 what a dick. Jun 30 14:02:30 indeed Jun 30 14:02:43 trolololol Jun 30 14:02:51 please dear god no Jun 30 14:03:01 don't stick that back in my he...AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! :P Jun 30 14:03:20 * TSCHAKeee2 goes to bang his head against a brick wall Jun 30 14:03:29 AHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Jun 30 14:03:36 :-) Jun 30 14:04:05 oh oh oh. Lo lo lo lo lo lo lo. Ha ha haha Jun 30 14:05:16 it really depresses me Jun 30 14:05:23 this new crowd of "users" Jun 30 14:05:33 this prevalent sense of "entitlement" Jun 30 14:05:44 Jaffa, based on how Quim's described it every N900 owner will be running it or licking Nokia's boots to own the N9 come November. . . . Jun 30 14:05:54 of, "it's open" therefore "it's free" therefore "we deserve it." Jun 30 14:06:10 GAN900, seems like an important OR Jun 30 14:06:53 TSCHAKeee2: my theory is to just ignore the trolls and they'll go back to the bridge they belong under Jun 30 14:07:05 (and if that doesn't work, give them a bit of a kick in the pants to help them) Jun 30 14:07:29 * lcuk gives w00t_ a switch kick in the pants just to feel better Jun 30 14:07:43 ow Jun 30 14:07:54 :D Jun 30 14:08:17 i suppose i did trololol earlier ;) Jun 30 14:09:52 thank you Jun 30 14:09:57 it takes DAYS for that song to leave my head Jun 30 14:10:20 :-) Jun 30 14:10:41 Eduard Khil would have been a good bad guy for a mind thriller :P Jun 30 14:13:31 um anyone know where the meego chromium srpm has gone? i cant find it on repo.meggo.com Jun 30 14:13:33 * lcuk has been humming tune for roobard & custard all day and i have no idea who infected my brain with it today. Jun 30 14:14:25 nm found it - looking in the wrong folder Jun 30 14:15:11 * GAN900 finds it unlikely Jun 30 14:19:53 GAN900: And now we've got (at least) 3 fora in which to discuss Harmattan. Woot! Jun 30 15:25:32 mlfoster: ping Jun 30 15:25:50 ok, time to commute Jun 30 15:25:53 timeless_mbp: hello! Jun 30 15:26:12 I'll try and catch you guys later for the celebrations^H^HTSG Jun 30 15:26:48 * timeless_mbp wonders what people are celebrating Jun 30 15:28:11 hopefully, a lot more stuff being pushed into the open (and kept there? :)) Jun 30 15:30:27 * trip0 wakes up Jun 30 15:30:47 push into the open? Jun 30 15:30:51 uh oh, better get busy Jun 30 15:39:24 w00t_, don't jinx it! Jun 30 15:39:47 This really is idiotic how we have so much talk about open and so little to back it up. Jun 30 15:40:06 At least they weren't trying to pretend with Maemo. Jun 30 15:41:19 the coming weeks will be quite telling I think Jun 30 15:45:07 How work the liveos filesystem ? Jun 30 15:45:25 how can it be a ext3 filesystem if its contained into a squashfs :S Jun 30 16:04:47 http://github.com/nloko/banshee/graphs/clones Jun 30 16:04:48 helps? Jun 30 16:06:40 * timeless_mbp decides it's git://git.gnome.org/banshee Jun 30 16:34:09 and the handset code is out: http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/meego-handset-project-day-1-here Jun 30 16:34:54 Hopefully this is the last of the big reveals. . . . Jun 30 16:35:41 "Subset" Jun 30 16:35:44 Apparently not. Jun 30 16:38:19 They turned it into an iPhone. . . . Jun 30 16:41:27 GAN900: but you can re-theme the Handset UX ;) Jun 30 16:43:03 jausmus, that doesn't change the fact that they're borrowing all of their UI concept from Apple. Jun 30 16:43:45 I looked at the SMS thing and thought of Android Jun 30 16:43:58 of course that is probably an iphone copy Jun 30 16:44:13 oh well. Jun 30 16:44:21 horses bark and caravan moves on Jun 30 16:44:44 horses? Jun 30 16:44:46 meant dogs. Jun 30 16:44:57 * Myrtti considers switching her allergy medicines Jun 30 16:45:17 also: haha, corrected myself before anyone else Jun 30 16:45:27 neener Jun 30 16:46:01 So, it's out, yay Jun 30 16:46:08 well done all involved Jun 30 16:46:43 hahahaha Jun 30 16:46:55 handset image comes out and it's x86 Jun 30 16:47:02 * microlith applauds Jun 30 16:47:11 microlith: what did you expect? Jun 30 16:47:15 ARM Jun 30 16:47:23 did you click on the ARM link, then? Jun 30 16:47:24 hahahahaha Jun 30 16:47:25 you know, hardware people actually have Jun 30 16:47:51 what arm link Jun 30 16:47:55 the N900 download isn't quite available yet Jun 30 16:48:08 * microlith shrungs Jun 30 16:48:15 I haven't looked, just got back, but given the meego-arm people have been working on this, I find it hard to imagine it doesn't exist Jun 30 16:48:17 I don't have the details but maybe someone from Nokia can chime in Jun 30 16:48:19 * microlith relearns how to type Jun 30 16:48:36 microlith: well, intel does not do arm ;) Jun 30 16:48:51 not anymore, anyway Jun 30 16:49:01 * slaine remembers the Xscale chips Jun 30 16:49:15 is it even possible to buy an aava mobile handset? Jun 30 16:49:38 DawnFoster, they're all on Summer vaction. Jun 30 16:49:40 microlith: not yet. Jun 30 16:49:44 DawnFoster: I don't see anyone from the n900-team around here. I guess you'll se an image soon enough, but not today Jun 30 16:49:51 Ha Jun 30 16:50:04 Probably once they get back from break. Jun 30 16:50:05 they've all be uber busy Jun 30 16:50:13 GAN900: maybe:) I know they were working on the arm stuff, but not sure why it isn't available. Jun 30 16:50:38 GAN900: they aren't all away, #meego-arm has had people around working today Jun 30 16:51:05 DawnFoster: n900 is just a toy that won't be supported with meego. aava-like stuff probably will be Jun 30 16:51:15 lol Jun 30 16:52:03 * Myrtti goes to brew coffee and tea for everyone and brings the cheesecake Jun 30 16:52:09 Well, it was nice hoping for a semi-open alternative to Android and iOS Jun 30 16:52:26 oh well Jun 30 16:52:28 http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/meego-handset-project-day-1-here Jun 30 16:52:35 sorry Jun 30 16:52:36 Looks like we've just got a clone of iOS with most of the same privacy concerns as Android. Jun 30 16:53:56 geez, naysaying already ? Jun 30 16:54:18 DawnFoster: just checked, the repos for arm have been published as well, so you can try building your own image Jun 30 16:54:21 slaine: criticism isn't allowed? Jun 30 16:54:24 slaine: I think the naysaying has been going on for a while, with no one acting to counter it Jun 30 16:54:52 Myrtti: criticism is one thing, panning the entire platform based on a UI release is another Jun 30 16:54:53 slaine, seen? http://maemo.org/community/council/nokia_response_to_mynokia_subscription_in_pr1-2/ Jun 30 16:55:10 I'm just surprised at the negativity. Day1 is supposed to be an appy occasion Jun 30 16:55:19 w00t_, color me burnt out. Jun 30 16:55:45 GAN900: I know, and I respect your position, I just don't agree with it Jun 30 16:56:07 GAN900: no I haven't, should I care seeing as I'm not a maemo person or an n900 owner ? Jun 30 16:56:12 slaine, might be if the big reveal mentality weren't a spit in the face of the openess mantra. Jun 30 16:56:29 slaine, as Nokia's involved in MeeGo, it affects it too. Jun 30 16:56:39 well, you know as well as I do that I'm damn opposed to the big reveal mentality Jun 30 16:56:45 Stskeeps pointed me to a hildon-desktop port sans libhildon, I'm still tempted to find it, update it to latest h-d and get it running on meego Jun 30 16:56:50 and we should shout as loud as we can about things like that Jun 30 16:57:07 slaine, unfortunately nobody's listening Jun 30 16:57:35 listening, they sure are. willing to change completely, I have my doubts Jun 30 16:57:47 Or change at all. Jun 30 16:57:51 But whatever Jun 30 16:57:54 Oh come on Jun 30 16:58:01 GAN900: wait some more, and you'll have many interesting open components in meego Jun 30 16:58:01 I guess we just have to wait Jun 30 16:58:02 More Jun 30 16:58:05 Haha Jun 30 16:58:17 waiting for shiny things is hard Jun 30 16:58:21 Waiting. Isn't that the story we've been hearing since 2005? Jun 30 16:58:50 GAN900: big dinosaurs need time to change direction ;) Jun 30 16:59:00 GAN900: what are your primary concerns now, realistically? Jun 30 16:59:32 GAN900: we're currently in the process of pushing quite a few interesting middleware libraries from nokia closed to opensource Jun 30 17:00:06 w00t_: my guess is that he can't run Handset UX on his n900 immediately Jun 30 17:00:32 slaine, yeah. . . . Jun 30 17:00:44 Clearly I'm THAT guy Jun 30 17:01:09 slaine: I'm sure it has more to do with Nokia's behavior and the insistence on doing things behind closed doors Jun 30 17:01:11 well, it's understandable, you've had 2 false starts months apart from your perspective Jun 30 17:01:17 I wouldn't pidgeonhole anyone, hence why I'm asking to make sure that things are clear :) Jun 30 17:01:40 slaine: it's also more than a little amusing that the initial handset image is for hardware no one has Jun 30 17:01:47 Nokia's team of meego developers have probably been more open about they're doing than anyone, so I'm not sure that's got legs as an argument Jun 30 17:01:48 microlith, hmm curious? isnt the handset software mostly the one mobline was showing off for a while Jun 30 17:02:11 w00t_, numerous and difficult to list on a thumb keyboard Jun 30 17:02:11 microlith: taking proprietary source and getting it into a shape that can be published without infringing on 3rd parties takes time and can't be done in the open. Jun 30 17:02:12 lcuk: that was an LG handset that got cancelled Jun 30 17:02:20 same software though? Jun 30 17:02:22 and mostly the same stuff that's been a problem since day 1 Jun 30 17:02:28 there was Moblin 2 for MIDS Jun 30 17:02:42 which looked very similar to the theme used in Handset UX Jun 30 17:02:44 Little attempt to engage or leverage skills and experience from the Maemo Community Jun 30 17:02:57 Attempts from our side are met with silence or stop motion Jun 30 17:03:02 Aard: being clear and explicit about what was being done and why would have been -really- informative, but obviously no one with the capacity to do so bothered Jun 30 17:03:07 but that was all done in Clutter, where as we're led to believe this was implemented with Qt Jun 30 17:03:12 Lots of talk about open, little to back it uP Jun 30 17:03:30 With the tired old refrain of waiting, waiting, waiting. Jun 30 17:03:31 But isn't that point of a Day 1 Jun 30 17:03:38 it's now open Jun 30 17:03:50 slaine, well the source would help Jun 30 17:03:52 is that around? Jun 30 17:03:56 Not all of it, according to the blog post. Jun 30 17:04:01 microlith: possibly, I have to admit that I didn't follow meego from the outside Jun 30 17:04:06 since this is reference implementation as we are led to believe Jun 30 17:04:08 certainly the "pay no attention to the team behind the curtain" approach is infuriating Jun 30 17:04:14 GAN900: which bit? Jun 30 17:04:16 Generally, nothing around MeeGo leaves me anything but drained and frustrated. Jun 30 17:04:18 (granted, I skim-read) Jun 30 17:04:29 also: just mailed meego-dev about the ARM image stuff :) Jun 30 17:04:36 Aard: indeed, perhaps more should look at it from that perspective Jun 30 17:05:18 i see no links to the source? :$ am i just being blind Jun 30 17:05:19 w00t_, only parts of the reference set were released. Jun 30 17:05:31 lcuk, see meego.gitorious Jun 30 17:05:57 microlith: should and can are two different things, thogh Jun 30 17:06:09 GAN900: curious. I think that is something that needs following up on too :) Jun 30 17:06:32 Aard: they may be, but don't go saying "we're open and community based!" and then completely ignore the community that shows up Jun 30 17:06:33 * w00t_ goes to mail again Jun 30 17:06:41 trip0, cool beans Jun 30 17:06:42 I can't really point to one thing that's broken in MeeGo and causing all of the problems Jun 30 17:06:47 http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux/meego-handset-photo/trees/master for one Jun 30 17:07:05 But when a project is leaving so many enthusiastic people burnt out and bitter, something needs to change. Jun 30 17:07:10 microlith: wait, I only said "it's quite open and getting better", nothing about community-based ;) Jun 30 17:07:11 afaik the problem is that everyone in the community who actually contributes gets hired by nokia or someone related Jun 30 17:07:24 slaine, and you don't see that if you're not listening to Maemo. Jun 30 17:07:39 Aard: well if it'as a one-sided affair, I see no reason anyone not part of nokia or intel should care Jun 30 17:07:48 GAN900, its there and technically buildable Jun 30 17:07:48 slaine, Well, coming from Moblin, I've had almost exactly the same frustrations Jun 30 17:07:52 sure way to kill a platform there Jun 30 17:07:56 The source code is out there Jun 30 17:08:14 s/slaine, /GAN900, / Jun 30 17:08:14 slaine meant: GAN900, Well, coming from Moblin, I've had almost exactly the same frustrations Jun 30 17:08:36 The integration work is being done for two platforms, you are free to take the source and enable more platforms. Jun 30 17:09:14 microlith: I personally think announcement/release of stuff was somewhat to early. it'll be soon in a shape where you can take that stuff and get it working on $platform_of_choice Jun 30 17:09:35 GAN900: mailed meego-dev on both points, so.. let's see what response we get there Jun 30 17:09:38 I don't see meego as that `ready to run on all crap' distribution (though that's just my personal opinion) Jun 30 17:10:00 the lack of ability to "run on all crap" is really secondary Jun 30 17:10:05 i am amazed at how fast people code! Jun 30 17:10:07 http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux/meego-handset-photo Jun 30 17:10:12 repository started yesterday Jun 30 17:10:16 and full of code today :D Jun 30 17:10:21 lcuk, lol Jun 30 17:10:32 "magic" Jun 30 17:10:37 fingers must be burning Jun 30 17:11:11 lcuk: internal sources usually get imported without revision history Jun 30 17:11:24 yeah thats a bit of a shame Jun 30 17:11:39 well, for a person who's maintained a few of his own pet OSS projects, i usually write a bunch of code, get it working, and then open source it Jun 30 17:12:03 * slaine goes to read w00t_'s emails and get some foodage Jun 30 17:12:09 "hello world" isn't a very open source project Jun 30 17:12:15 lcuk: legal reasons, if you publish the history you need to make sure that you really can publish the complete history, which takes "somewhat" longer Jun 30 17:12:38 Compiling MeeGo's problems in one place might be useful. Jun 30 17:12:40 aard, im not complaining, im poking fun :p Jun 30 17:12:46 same thing happened with Qt when it was open sourced on that note Jun 30 17:13:00 * lcuk is very pleased to see it here :) Jun 30 17:13:03 slaine | certainly the "pay no attention to the team behind the "curtain" approach is infuriating Jun 30 17:13:03 qt-history has a full history from the start of Qt (so, years..), but isn't public Jun 30 17:13:08 i would like to see it on my n900 Jun 30 17:13:10 you have no idea ;) Jun 30 17:13:28 GAN900, bugs.meego.com ;) Jun 30 17:13:30 if full history was published, then you'd be able to peel back the history get a proprietary version Jun 30 17:13:48 lcuk: good luck, best shot is trying to boot from sd as the images are, well, somewhat bigger than the maemo5-images Jun 30 17:13:52 lcuk, they're much bigger than that. :) Jun 30 17:13:57 mikeleib, a changelog would be handy to see how development went and where sticking points were Jun 30 17:13:58 it is open source starting now. Yesterday it was proprietary Jun 30 17:14:10 Aard, not an issue really Jun 30 17:14:17 it can be open source and not public you know Jun 30 17:14:18 a changelog would reference commits that are no longer in the repos Jun 30 17:14:21 its getting an image in the first place Jun 30 17:14:23 any brave souls making an image for N900 before the TMO people flashes theirs with the Aava image or the kickstart file? :) Jun 30 17:14:24 me ponders Jun 30 17:14:27 / Jun 30 17:14:33 lcuk: in that case, everything you need to give it a try is available. Jun 30 17:14:43 jsa-, nobody knows where it is. Jun 30 17:14:52 Supposedly there should be one. Jun 30 17:14:53 ill see what stskeeps is upto once he comes backonline Jun 30 17:15:21 lcuk: he's away isn't he ? Jun 30 17:15:35 I know he said he was away for when the release was likely to happen Jun 30 17:15:36 sure but he has his n810 or whatever devie he carries now Jun 30 17:15:39 GAN900: afaiu there is no Jun 30 17:15:57 there should be everything to build it though Jun 30 17:16:10 i'm referring to the conversation on #meego-arm Jun 30 17:16:16 earlier today Jun 30 17:16:27 lcuk: best bet for now is to use latest aava-kickstart as base, and pick the missing bits from the latest n900 ks file Jun 30 17:16:30 * GAN900 boggles at a 1.1 release that's not ready for consumption Jun 30 17:16:38 :) Jun 30 17:16:38 Gotta love idiots in marketing. Jun 30 17:16:52 there should be a kickstart file for N900 in tablets-dev or whatever it is Jun 30 17:17:23 will there be a simulator for handset dev work me wonders Jun 30 17:17:44 there is a kickstart file for N900 Jun 30 17:17:50 I'm not forking out for an n900 or an Avavaaaa whatever it's called phone Jun 30 17:17:56 jsa-: I don't think there is one for the handset-ux, and as you need more stuff to get the handset-ux working than for the n900 just changing the aava-file is easier Jun 30 17:18:01 they just updated this page with the n900 info: http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.0.80.8/meego-handset-day1-developer-preview Jun 30 17:18:15 GAN900: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php is supposedly related Jun 30 17:18:16 Aard: I don't think that's the preferred method Jun 30 17:18:22 slaine, meego avavuvuzela edition will be out soon :D Jun 30 17:18:29 lol Jun 30 17:19:20 GAN900: "Day 1" is not, technically, a release AFAIK Jun 30 17:19:43 that's true - this is for developers and is not a release Jun 30 17:19:43 it's a preview! Jun 30 17:19:46 it's similar to the (former) libdui "tech preview Jun 30 17:20:00 it's an early version of what will eventually become 1.1 Jun 30 17:20:07 We probably shouldn't be at 1.1 then Jun 30 17:20:18 who is at 1.1? Jun 30 17:20:19 Considering everything is still in alpha/beta Jun 30 17:20:25 Or 1.0 Jun 30 17:20:29 Same difference Jun 30 17:20:46 the 1.0 branch had the 1.0 version of core / netbooks Jun 30 17:20:54 why version number is 1.0 if this isn't release anyway Jun 30 17:20:59 DawnFoster: I don't think there's another option at the moment Jun 30 17:21:12 Kray 1.0 came out months ago Jun 30 17:21:18 DawnFoster, since the avaa isnt out yet and got canned, who exactly are the aava images for? Jun 30 17:21:21 this is common in open source projects. We talk about release numbers of what it will be released under. Jun 30 17:21:31 not same diff... Day 1 is 1.0 + handset code being released... finally! Jun 30 17:21:54 but it's not 1.0 Jun 30 17:21:59 that was in may Jun 30 17:22:07 right Jun 30 17:22:09 the code base has moved on in prep for 1.1 Jun 30 17:22:11 there are a bunch of people with pre-release aava hardware from Intel Jun 30 17:22:12 that's why it's not a *release* Jun 30 17:22:24 heh Jun 30 17:22:28 all this code is based off 1.0 Jun 30 17:22:28 DawnFoster, can they be obtained outside intel? Jun 30 17:22:33 exactly, it's like Fedora Rawhide or Debian Unstable Jun 30 17:22:38 it's not a release also because it is not supported. It will not have backported bugfixes, etc. Jun 30 17:22:52 lcuk: In Q3 Jun 30 17:22:52 its a nolease Jun 30 17:22:58 DawnFoster: the ks file linked to on that site is the old "xterm only" one. you really can't use anything more than the few packages for the handset-ux kickstart Jun 30 17:22:59 it's called "tip of tree" ;) Jun 30 17:23:00 you can't buy the aava platforms, but Intel has shipped them to a bunch of partners who are developing for them Jun 30 17:23:04 It's the Future (TM) Jun 30 17:23:05 ml-mobile, mmm but it was cancelled wasnt it? Jun 30 17:23:09 1.0 had no UI Jun 30 17:23:16 That's not much of a 1.0 Jun 30 17:23:24 anaZ: will there be a simulator for us non aava hardware owning peeps ? Jun 30 17:23:27 the LG was cancelled Jun 30 17:23:31 GAN900, 1.0 means a lot of different things to a lot of differnt people Jun 30 17:23:41 it means almost nothing in the open source world Jun 30 17:23:42 IMHO Jun 30 17:23:44 Aava is still taking preorders Jun 30 17:23:47 Aard: I'm not sure exactly what is in that file Jun 30 17:23:53 sabotage, trust me, I understand the release process. :) I just don't agree with calling ANY of this stuff 1.x Jun 30 17:24:04 it would be awesome if we had someone from Nokia here to answer questions. Jun 30 17:24:08 nobody did GAN900 Jun 30 17:24:14 they called it "Day 1" Jun 30 17:24:21 tip of tree Jun 30 17:24:24 rawhide Jun 30 17:24:26 sabotage, he's referring to the 1.0 from may Jun 30 17:24:30 call it what you like Jun 30 17:24:32 sabotage, ANY not just Handse. :) Jun 30 17:24:35 t Jun 30 17:24:40 but just dumping code was not enough Jun 30 17:24:44 so we made images Jun 30 17:24:47 ok, technically the nokia sdk beta is out which should include simulator Jun 30 17:24:51 DawnFoster, that's what I've been saying since 2005. Jun 30 17:24:54 and now you want to complain about that too? Jun 30 17:25:00 damn it, I probably won't be available for the TSG tonight Jun 30 17:25:02 technically i should be able to bung some of the meego apps there i think? Jun 30 17:25:04 * GAN900 sighs Jun 30 17:25:12 just remembered I've baby sitting duties Jun 30 17:25:32 sabotage, nevermind. Jun 30 17:25:35 DawnFoster: well, have a look at it ;) it'll give you an image which boots into an xterm. you need the package groups for handset-ux, and some script in the post sections to create a working image. which is only present in the aava-file. so, just take this, throw out aava-only-stuff, and include the n900-specific packages Jun 30 17:25:42 GAN900: fair enough, and I understand the general frustrations Jun 30 17:25:50 even being on the inside Jun 30 17:25:53 Discussions in here so quickly descend to accusations of whining, trolling or both. Jun 30 17:26:01 Not super productive, I think. Jun 30 17:26:25 this is the 4th time I personally have tried to get our handset code out the door in two years Jun 30 17:26:45 well you got the code out Jun 30 17:26:46 :D Jun 30 17:26:53 * sabotage nods Jun 30 17:26:56 congratulations :D Jun 30 17:26:58 and grins Jun 30 17:27:03 and needs a pint! Jun 30 17:27:03 indeedy Jun 30 17:27:06 trust us. working inside is not easier than working outside. Jun 30 17:27:14 now all we need to do is see it running :p Jun 30 17:27:21 yeah Jun 30 17:27:22 * auke cheers for sabotage and mikeleib Jun 30 17:27:26 who in intel has an aava and a video recorder (i know those are rare) Jun 30 17:27:33 lcuk, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW5wpg5epMs Jun 30 17:27:36 I can't help much with the "running" part Jun 30 17:27:38 lcuk: there is a .. see that Jun 30 17:27:45 * sabotage does not control hardware targets Jun 30 17:27:48 mikeleib, unfortunately so many lose perspective. Jun 30 17:27:49 lcuk: what would you need video'd? Jun 30 17:28:00 * mikeleib has an aava Jun 30 17:28:10 * Aard too Jun 30 17:28:10 * mikeleib does not have a video camera Jun 30 17:28:13 I can take hi-def video at home Jun 30 17:28:15 hey, owning an n900. i bet you answered this a ton of times now: I know 1.1 is Day1 but I am so eager to try it out! Anyone actually installed it on an n900 and can phone and send/receive sms with it and says: "yeah, its pre-release, but for an experienced linux user its not so bad..." Jun 30 17:28:17 with my nikon Jun 30 17:28:20 auke, interested in scrolling and panning speed especially Jun 30 17:28:28 theres a rather high barrier i expect ;) Jun 30 17:29:10 Nils^, I would like to know the ans to your question as well Jun 30 17:29:11 it scrolls fairly well. The difficult part is really the touch screen is a little jumpy. That gives the false impression that the scrolling speed is really poor Jun 30 17:29:37 speaking specifically to "phone and send/receive sms" well, that would require an actually working modem driver, sadly Jun 30 17:29:45 again, out'a my control Jun 30 17:29:48 getting touch working really well is something that takes a lot of tuning and work. We haven't done that yet Jun 30 17:29:57 other powers make platform Si descisions Jun 30 17:29:59 mikeleib, auke this is why i mention it http://liqbase.net/20100626_005.mp4 Jun 30 17:30:12 yaosiang: The question is how to try it out safely. Jun 30 17:30:14 mikeleib, humm touch broke? why Jun 30 17:30:39 so, is this definitely using the meego touch framework, formerly known as dui ? Jun 30 17:30:43 sabotage: so the n900 version is only for wlan and offline tasks? Jun 30 17:30:47 slaine: yes! Jun 30 17:30:50 slaine, yep Jun 30 17:30:52 cool Jun 30 17:30:58 * mikeleib wonders if his videoplayer has teh codecs for mp3 Jun 30 17:31:10 s/3/4/ Jun 30 17:31:12 Nils^: I can't speak to N900... I don't have one to test with Jun 30 17:31:12 looks just like the Mx theme on the netbook, good job Jun 30 17:31:20 mikeleib, mp4 Jun 30 17:31:21 ;) Jun 30 17:31:27 slaine: designed by same designers ;) Jun 30 17:31:33 * mikeleib sees video Jun 30 17:31:42 nedrichards, take a bow Jun 30 17:31:47 what is that a video of? Jun 30 17:31:50 meh. using a stylus Jun 30 17:32:00 lcuk, what hardware is that? Jun 30 17:32:04 mikeleib, n900 Jun 30 17:32:08 errr trip0 Jun 30 17:32:09 sabotage: so you don't know what "Hardware adaptation support for Intel Atom-based handset (Moorestown) and ARM-based Nokia N900" means? Jun 30 17:32:09 ah Jun 30 17:32:21 lcuk, is that an mtf app? Jun 30 17:32:23 looks like I've returned just in time :) Jun 30 17:32:26 I don't work on n900, I was speaking to Aava specifically Jun 30 17:32:33 Nils^: might have better luck later on in #meego-arm Jun 30 17:32:39 Nils^: where are you quoting from Jun 30 17:32:39 n900 fremantle running liqbase stuffs Jun 30 17:32:45 thats software driven rotation too :$ Jun 30 17:32:51 so its not even as fast as it could be Jun 30 17:32:57 sabotage: the meego official blog which announced git of 1.1 today Jun 30 17:33:00 * sabotage not read all the blogs/twits, been furiously pushing code Jun 30 17:33:28 lcuk, mtf scrolls rather nicely on the n900. see widgetsgallery from extras-devel Jun 30 17:33:49 i saw it, but mtf means? Jun 30 17:33:57 the widgets gallery ran rather hot tho Jun 30 17:33:59 mtf == meegotouch Jun 30 17:34:06 even when idle it was still burning through fps Jun 30 17:34:32 * sabotage reads blog, just to know what the world is being told and see how it relates to his known universe Jun 30 17:34:43 whats happens if i flash meego-codedrop-arm-n900-closed.ubiimg using fiasco flasher :P? Jun 30 17:35:00 th3hate, flasher should block you being foolish Jun 30 17:35:04 sabotage: not reading blogs and news is not a problem, as long as you are not a meego community manager or spokesperson :) Jun 30 17:35:44 I hope its easier to crosscompile and build for meego than for maemo. Jun 30 17:36:00 Nils^: stick to the Qt Creator environment and you're good Jun 30 17:36:18 microlith: oh yes... I guess I can read that somewhere, but what about GTK? Jun 30 17:36:30 Nils^: and I am not, I am a "foot soldier" ;) Jun 30 17:36:47 Nils^: if GTK is your target, you are best with the maemo environment as Qt is the officially supported toolkit for MeeGo Jun 30 17:37:39 microlith: my target is surely not a os which has only one hardware device :) Jun 30 17:38:01 sabotage, you aren't a "foot soldier" your a "saboteur" Jun 30 17:38:07 isn't GTK+ also community supported on maemo ? Jun 30 17:38:08 any simple instructions on how to flash meego on n900? Jun 30 17:38:11 well, the goal is of course to have Meego on multiple hardware devices Jun 30 17:38:12 thiago, so it's not n900 in meego video =))) Jun 30 17:38:25 Nils^: one can only guess what "Hardware adaptation support for Intel Atom-based handset (Moorestown) and ARM-based Nokia N900" means, but my guess would be device drivers, contextKit providers status indicator plugins, ofono modem plugins, etc... Jun 30 17:39:12 I have "only" one n900, and I want to keep it running, so I better stick with maemo now. Need to phone sometimes :) Jun 30 17:40:01 Nils^, can't flash back to Maemo? Jun 30 17:40:24 Nils^: you can always try getting it booting meego from sd-card. though I'm quite glad that I have a dedicated unit for meego stuff Jun 30 17:40:31 I wouldn't recommend installing an early developer release on your primary cell phone Jun 30 17:40:32 I wonder why some of the effects lag like hell and some works normally Jun 30 17:41:08 Its tempting, and flashing forth and back would be a possibility, but once in my life I will resist and stick with a running system. Jun 30 17:41:09 Aard, so you have a meego image on your n900? Jun 30 17:41:34 Nils^, :) Jun 30 17:41:38 lcuk: yes, though not working very well Jun 30 17:41:51 did some experimenting yesterday Jun 30 17:42:07 Aard, so its built with all the normal open stuff? Jun 30 17:43:01 wazd: this seen on an Aava? Jun 30 17:43:01 if so, ftp it to someone at intel to validate what you say quickly and we can have it on the site tonight? Jun 30 17:43:25 sabotage: this seen on something well hidden in shadows on youtube video :P Jun 30 17:43:34 oh Jun 30 17:43:40 sabotage: looking like n900 :) Jun 30 17:43:48 guess I now must also watch videos Jun 30 17:43:58 lcuk: yes. as I said earlier, with enough patience you should be able to get a somewhat working image with what's now public (except for stuff like cellular, of course) Jun 30 17:44:17 so why there is no N900 image and codedrop on dev.nokia? =)) Jun 30 17:44:18 so, there was a "meego" preview release that only runs on Intel handsets, which no one has except special "partners". gotcha Jun 30 17:44:22 sabotage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW5wpg5epMs Jun 30 17:44:33 aard, im not asking for me, i have other things to do this evening. i am asking for other devs who dont fancy building a whole os to try it Jun 30 17:44:36 when you have the image there Jun 30 17:45:02 wazd: device in that vid is definately not an N900 Jun 30 17:45:04 lpotter, but the code is there :) Jun 30 17:45:11 sabotage: I guess it's aava Jun 30 17:45:22 it says on the description that it is aava Jun 30 17:45:25 sabotage: yeah, took a closer look than window on n900 :D Jun 30 17:45:37 lpotter: there is a .ks for it Jun 30 17:45:40 just not a built image Jun 30 17:45:48 lcuk: except the sdk simulator only runs on intell graphics cards... Jun 30 17:46:04 the kickstart posted will build you a n900 image lpotter Jun 30 17:46:12 or wait until someone posts a pre-built image Jun 30 17:46:17 intel folks: how did you manage to fit a whole x86 and heatsink inside a handset o_O i remember the chips used to be bigger than my hand Jun 30 17:46:20 :D Jun 30 17:46:25 btw, it's a miracle how device charges wirelessly Jun 30 17:46:28 lpotter: you mean the xephyr/chroot? it has no such hardware limitation Jun 30 17:46:30 lpotter, not looking at that! Jun 30 17:46:33 incredible Jun 30 17:46:42 It's all because the image itself contains non-free Nokia libraries, so obviously they don't want to distribute those openly Jun 30 17:46:54 lcuk: there are reasons why the n900 image is not published yet. my stuff is just a dirty hack barely working Jun 30 17:46:59 http://www.aavamobile.com/ Jun 30 17:47:05 neidlingerj: that kickstart-image in the current state won't give you handset-ux Jun 30 17:47:07 w00t_: actually, there are known issues with non-intel gfx and the simulator Jun 30 17:47:27 Aard, barely working > not accessible to regular devs Jun 30 17:47:29 slaine: seriously? Jun 30 17:47:30 lcuk: you must have small hands... ;) Jun 30 17:47:36 yeah Jun 30 17:47:40 slaine: really? what are they? because a number of people have gotten it working fine - I know that some haven't, but I also know that a lot of those have been making mistakes Jun 30 17:47:45 neidlingerj: so Meego is Intel only. Jun 30 17:47:57 Aard, so you are releasing the n900 image? Jun 30 17:48:00 ZogG: no Jun 30 17:48:12 #meego-arm for ARM stuff Jun 30 17:48:20 I just did some toying around in my spare time Jun 30 17:48:21 lcuk: there are reasons why the n900 image is not published yet. my stuff is just a dirty hack barely working //? Jun 30 17:48:27 w00t_: from what I recall, it's a rendering problem with ATI/nVidia drivers, clutter and xephyr Jun 30 17:48:29 aard: i got the impression that the n900-adaptation people have working kickstart files with the ux stuff and were supposed to upload it to tablets dev instead of releasing an image. but it seems they haven't yet, if it's the old codedrop file Jun 30 17:49:12 slaine: well - I've seen a few people working happily with it :) Jun 30 17:49:17 we are having an issue getting the .ks for n900 shared Jun 30 17:49:18 jsa-: I have no idea how far the official ks-files are. the ones published at the moment don't containt ux-code Jun 30 17:49:23 w00t_: that's good to know Jun 30 17:49:30 small thing with the closed bits Jun 30 17:49:41 Aard: heh. Jun 30 17:49:46 I use a Mac though, so I'm probably stuck using my dell mini9 for dev Jun 30 17:49:53 jausmus, http://www.pacificgeek.com/productimages/xl/80523PX333512.jpg Jun 30 17:49:54 Aard: interesting.. Jun 30 17:50:03 tekojo: faster! faster! :) Jun 30 17:50:09 intel slot1 was massive Jun 30 17:50:17 Aard, so you mean the link on meego.com to try out on N900 is misleading? =) Jun 30 17:50:26 lcuk, I had one of those for years Jun 30 17:50:30 lcuk: I know, I remember them all too well, but, bigger than your hand, really? ;) Jun 30 17:50:31 PII 450 Jun 30 17:50:38 ZogG: at the moment. though maybe the contents will change later ;) Jun 30 17:50:43 I have a feeling the maemo community is going to want blood if they don't get a UX image today... hah Jun 30 17:50:49 I just started my vacation, so I'm out of connection, and getting hold of the right people at this exact hour is... challenging Jun 30 17:52:06 Aard, ok, i want someone to try it out and maybe bootmenu adaptaion for it (as we have at nitdroid) Jun 30 17:53:56 I know that people are working on getting the right N900 image up for people to use (still an early preview - some things work and there are some bugs) :) Jun 30 17:54:26 Aard, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=735824&postcount=381 - the answer for the codedrop delay =) Jun 30 17:54:52 :) Jun 30 17:54:56 DawnFoster, it's only dev preview - don't expect — things work =) Jun 30 17:55:39 ZogG, its been in development for a while (looking at aava videos over the months) so it should work quite well at least for some definitions! Jun 30 17:56:28 lcuk: remember that videos and demos only show the bits that are working well :) Jun 30 17:56:41 lcuk, yeah, but i mean - it's better to expect something not really ready and find out it works better than you expected, than other way Jun 30 17:57:20 as i understand it doesn't work as phone yet - am i right? Jun 30 17:57:29 DawnFoster, of course! but it shows that its been coming together for a while Jun 30 17:57:34 only dialer and contacts as programs but you can't really call someone? Jun 30 17:57:47 ZogG, dont ask me, this is the first day for me too :) Jun 30 17:57:47 ZogG: link? Jun 30 17:57:57 im plased the code is around Jun 30 17:58:20 lcuk, we are all so excited =) Jun 30 17:58:27 thiago link of what? Jun 30 17:58:33 ZogG: hey, fennec is there as well :p Jun 30 17:58:44 Aard, have you got codedrop? Jun 30 17:58:57 I've to sign off now Jun 30 17:59:04 I might be around later Jun 30 17:59:15 thiago it was aava phone if you are talking about "not shown on N900" Jun 30 17:59:20 ZogG: I've been working with that stuff for some weeks Jun 30 17:59:21 DawnFoster: good luck with the TSG and pass on my congrats to the handset ux team Jun 30 17:59:25 ZogG, ive got other things to do :P Jun 30 17:59:31 slaine - thanks! Jun 30 17:59:36 slaine, bye Jun 30 17:59:36 * lcuk is going Jun 30 17:59:48 lcuk, i saw on twitter you are up to something for maemo =) Jun 30 17:59:57 lcuk, later Jun 30 18:00:02 ZogG, im always upto something Jun 30 18:14:31 hi Jun 30 18:14:55 how to create a N900 image http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 Jun 30 18:16:18 InformatiQ: we still don't have the n900 .ks available, issues uploading it Jun 30 18:23:25 Thank you netgear for making a router with such a stable connection Jun 30 18:23:34 Jun 30 18:24:19 sorry to ask the obvious question, but is there a repo available for arm for 1.1 ? (so that I can build my own n900 image) Jun 30 18:25:03 #meego-arm Jun 30 18:25:06 cheers Jun 30 18:25:13 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/repos/armv7l/packages/ Jun 30 18:25:19 tusker : n900 image is late Jun 30 18:25:32 understand that it's late, hence building my own... Jun 30 18:25:41 CosmoHill: aren't they just the 1.0 packages ? Jun 30 18:25:46 tusker: they're having problem putting the kickstart file out there Jun 30 18:25:54 ah ok Jun 30 18:25:57 once that's done with, then you can build your own Jun 30 18:26:08 cheers Jun 30 18:26:29 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/handset/repos/armv7l/ Jun 30 18:32:18 will they ever provide a ready image for n900? Jun 30 18:32:31 ZogG: your understanding of the dialer is mostly correct Jun 30 18:33:06 * sabotage has not yet gotten a working modem driver, ofono plugin and firmware to test with on the aava Jun 30 18:33:40 you mean you've actually got an AAVA? Jun 30 18:33:40 as for contacts, it doesn't "sync" yet, but entered contacts will be preserved Jun 30 18:33:59 * thiago has an Aava Jun 30 18:34:01 TSCHAKeee2: well, yeah, I am one of the "unclean" ;) Jun 30 18:34:11 now I can put it to good use Jun 30 18:34:21 hahaha Jun 30 18:34:23 thiago: what rev? Jun 30 18:34:27 sabotage: for the record, all this behind the curtain development is bullshit. Jun 30 18:34:27 sabotage: no clue Jun 30 18:34:33 sabotage: it arrived a couple of days ago Jun 30 18:34:33 how can i get an meego obs account? Jun 30 18:34:34 i want ot work at nokia to get new phones =) Jun 30 18:34:38 TSCHAKeee2: no arguement Jun 30 18:34:39 sabotage: was a good paperweight so far Jun 30 18:34:45 you preach to the choir Jun 30 18:35:17 there's a lot of talented brain power out here being laid waste. Jun 30 18:35:19 ZogG: not everyone gets shiny new phones.. Jun 30 18:35:22 but anyway. Jun 30 18:35:33 * aloisiojr saw the annoucement of the "opening of Meego build infrastructure" Jun 30 18:35:33 lpotter: I sent two of those Aavas to brisbane Jun 30 18:35:34 lpotter, but i want to =)) Jun 30 18:35:46 TSCHAKeee2: as I noted earlier, us handset devs, (formerly MID devs) have been trying to get our code out for 2 years at least Jun 30 18:36:11 sabotage: yeah, i've wanted to see the MID code for roughly that long as well. Jun 30 18:36:42 sabotage: is this ux running on clutter/gtk as well? Jun 30 18:36:47 hey TSCHAKeee2 Jun 30 18:36:54 TSCHAKeee2: qt/mtf Jun 30 18:36:54 TSCHAKeee2: to lump *all* intel/nokia people into the same category is just lazy and immature BTW, Jun 30 18:37:01 hey CosmoHill. Jun 30 18:37:17 most of us have been either muzzled or had nothing we were allowed to share Jun 30 18:37:34 when you work for a big company, they own your work, period! Jun 30 18:37:39 sabotage: i know. i'm not mad at you Jun 30 18:37:42 sabotage: more at bosses a few levels up from you. Jun 30 18:37:52 TSCHAKeee2: UX this time around is only mtf based Jun 30 18:37:57 gotcha ok Jun 30 18:38:25 * sabotage has ported his code 3 times now to 3 diff OSes and toolkits Jun 30 18:38:35 I hope this one "sticks" Jun 30 18:38:40 heh Jun 30 18:38:41 mtx..? Jun 30 18:38:52 so I can get on with actually getting features implimented Jun 30 18:39:10 w00t: mtf = MeeGo Touch Framework Jun 30 18:39:25 w00t: mtx? or mtf? Jun 30 18:39:38 misread, I was sure I saw mtx Jun 30 18:39:39 mtf == meegotouch framework Jun 30 18:39:44 ok Jun 30 18:40:57 so basically, dui(m)compositor as the wm now... Jun 30 18:41:54 * lcuk wonders what it is about mobile devices that have to tear Jun 30 18:42:22 can anyone pull out the company name the lady mentions at ~30seconds in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3TdoY868kc Jun 30 18:42:42 she mentions the company name of the people who actually wrote the initial stuff (perhaps its you sabotage) Jun 30 18:42:50 she mentioned it was written in 2 weeks :D Jun 30 18:44:54 lcuk: no idea, can't make it out and it was not us Jun 30 18:45:02 that vid was pre-meego Jun 30 18:45:18 this was feb Jun 30 18:45:31 and if I had to guess, there was a bit of hand waving going on Jun 30 18:45:41 of course, its a touch device Jun 30 18:45:46 original post, or repost Jun 30 18:46:08 thiago: heh. you're funny. Jun 30 18:46:55 at any rate, they say at the beginning it's moblin 2.1 based so, well, who knows what it has on it but surely it has no relation to MeeGo Jun 30 18:47:46 meego is born of moblin so theres some strong connection Jun 30 18:48:06 but you are saying thats a different codebase tho? Jun 30 18:48:17 he's just guessing Jun 30 18:48:26 well, that's somewhat true, but also grossly over simplifing the reality lcuk Jun 30 18:48:55 I, for one, am just glad we use rpm now Jun 30 18:49:13 * lcuk doesnt care of packaging format - the code is the important part Jun 30 18:49:45 have been a maemo user in the past (3+ years) and a moblin dev since the beginning, and now a meego dev since it's beginning, I can do more than guess lpotter ;) Jun 30 18:49:46 the code is out there, the packages are out there.... Jun 30 18:50:07 mikeleib: troll baiter X^( Jun 30 18:50:57 * lbt wanders in looking for something to top QI ... ;) Jun 30 18:51:10 qi? Jun 30 18:51:14 QI Jun 30 18:51:34 A reminder that the TSG starts in 9 minutes Jun 30 18:51:37 is it on now? Jun 30 18:51:38 Stephen Fry et al :) Jun 30 18:51:46 lbt: new episodes? Jun 30 18:51:48 DawnFoster: that'll do it :) Jun 30 18:51:50 tekojo: what about this link http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php? Jun 30 18:51:54 MythTV :) Jun 30 18:52:02 Agenda and logistics: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings Jun 30 18:52:10 InformatiQ: pretty sure that is the old ks Jun 30 18:52:10 InformatiQ: wrong .ks there Jun 30 18:52:14 at least it was when i looked Jun 30 18:52:20 * w00t is waiting patiently Jun 30 18:52:33 tekojo: link should be removed then Jun 30 18:52:38 w00t: correct, haven't gotten hold of the right people yet Jun 30 18:52:41 lbt: damn you. you had me hoping to find a new episode on iplayer for a minute Jun 30 18:52:59 lbt: which channel is the meeting? Jun 30 18:53:05 #meego-meeting Jun 30 18:53:10 InformatiQ: well it will be fixed within the next two hours, so removing and putting back is kind of strange Jun 30 18:53:11 ... just watched Pam Ayres episode ... hilarious Jun 30 18:53:26 w00t: thanks Jun 30 18:53:29 yep, this one was great Jun 30 18:53:42 DawnFoster: thanks for the reminder Jun 30 18:54:11 DawnFoster: we'll give #meego-dev a go BTW... Jun 30 18:54:32 InformatiQ: ^^ for tomorrow... if you turn up ;) Jun 30 18:55:02 lbt: what's tomorrow? Jun 30 18:55:10 you know.... work? Jun 30 18:55:14 lbt: let's talk about that later - I don't really have time right now Jun 30 18:55:16 ah yes :) Jun 30 18:55:33 lcuk: http://www.globenewswire.com/news.html?d=184355 sounds like Jun 30 18:55:35 I'd like to make some changes, but need to talk to some people first Jun 30 18:55:46 *nod* Jun 30 18:56:38 sp3000, that would be it! Jun 30 18:59:45 * lbt holds his breath.... Jun 30 18:59:54 * CosmoHill tickles lbt Jun 30 19:00:00 try holding your breath now Jun 30 19:00:03 * lbt goes blue Jun 30 19:00:17 hello Jun 30 19:00:37 thebootroo: #meego-meeting if you want to join Jun 30 19:00:47 tx Jun 30 19:10:17 * lbt suggests again that we should have a "hands up" or something and then be invited to ask a question... otherwise it's hard to tell a slow typist from "I'm finished.... why are you all being quiet?" Jun 30 19:10:59 first person to go ".o/" gets to ask Jun 30 19:11:22 that kinda thing... obviously not tonight... Jun 30 19:11:54 calendar... :) Jun 30 19:12:38 was me posting the links helpful or should I of staied quiet Jun 30 19:12:51 CosmoHill, that was nicely timed Jun 30 19:12:53 :) Jun 30 19:12:59 +1 Jun 30 19:13:11 good Jun 30 19:13:13 arjan: I've finished implementing a coarse timer for Qt Jun 30 19:13:24 considering I quickly ran off to meego.com to find them Jun 30 19:13:46 thiago: is that the timer you guys were talking about a few weeks ago? Jun 30 19:13:51 * lbt is really looking forward to syncing his linux phone and his linux desktop ;) Jun 30 19:13:54 CosmoHill: yes Jun 30 19:14:00 I actually implemented another one too Jun 30 19:14:20 w00t: shame on you... Jun 30 19:14:21 so Qt now has a millisecond-timer, a coarse timer and a second-timer Jun 30 19:14:30 lbt: it had to be asked. :) Jun 30 19:15:04 lcuk: s/its out/it's out/ Jun 30 19:15:07 the auto-coarse timer has made plasma fire 62 timers without sleeping, then sleep for 2 seconds Jun 30 19:15:09 well, it makes an assumption... /me would have waited to see the code Jun 30 19:15:34 I don't know why, but it has 62 2-second timers Jun 30 19:15:38 :D timeless_mbp up until about 1/2 second from me posting it had "tis out!" so thats an improvement :P Jun 30 19:16:15 thiago: how many windows have you got? Jun 30 19:16:51 on this desktop, 8 Jun 30 19:17:02 not 62 then :( Jun 30 19:17:45 lbt *grin* how many tabs have you got open :P Jun 30 19:17:51 to the nearest 100 Jun 30 19:18:03 2 Jun 30 19:18:22 jesus - did you have a cull? Jun 30 19:18:23 tbh, I'm quite disheartened by that answer Jun 30 19:18:39 oh, I thought you meant in hundreds... Jun 30 19:18:46 lbt i did :P Jun 30 19:18:46 GAN900: perhaps you're right, and we're back to waiting - again Jun 30 19:18:52 you normally have at least 400 Jun 30 19:18:59 w00t, always. Jun 30 19:19:04 heh Jun 30 19:19:04 w00t, codesoup isnt codesoup Jun 30 19:19:13 w00t: why? Jun 30 19:19:24 w00t, I fear my Marvin personality will prove correct in the end. Jun 30 19:19:26 lbt: day one is here - and we're still waiting Jun 30 19:19:43 there will always be something to wait for Jun 30 19:19:44 yeah; but that would be a 1.0 release Jun 30 19:19:46 w00t, you never wait if you make it yourself, you just cant code fast enough :P Jun 30 19:20:02 * lcuk never gets frustrated by delays Jun 30 19:20:07 I'd rather we had a "here's what we got" Jun 30 19:20:08 lbt: supposedly, we're already at it, even though that 1.0 release meant an xterm Jun 30 19:20:20 i was honestly surprised to see code :D Jun 30 19:20:24 lcuk: how many tabs!!! Jun 30 19:20:25 lbt: and I was fine with that, because day one was coming soon Jun 30 19:20:26 * lbt was using it in real world terms ;) Jun 30 19:20:33 lbt: and now day one is here - and the rest is coming soon Jun 30 19:20:47 lbt: I can't help but wonder what else will be coming soon after the next coming soon :) Jun 30 19:20:49 but that's good? Jun 30 19:20:51 more Jun 30 19:21:19 would you rather wait until everything that was ever going to be released was "ready" ? Jun 30 19:21:27 quite the opposite Jun 30 19:21:33 whiners gonna whine Jun 30 19:21:35 I want it on gitorious NOW, so I can help make it "ready" Jun 30 19:21:49 :) Jun 30 19:21:57 suihkulokki: you tell him Jun 30 19:22:05 lcuk: ++ for backup Jun 30 19:22:26 CosmoHill, i have experience :) Jun 30 19:22:30 did I miss the battery answer? Jun 30 19:22:33 releasing small bits at a time = "this and that was not released, when will everything be released!?!" Jun 30 19:23:02 no one answered the battery question Jun 30 19:23:06 releasing ready big cunks = "why wasn't this published when it was still under work" Jun 30 19:23:23 * timeless_mbp wonders what a cunk i Jun 30 19:23:24 * lbt wonders if there are any hardware restrictions cf ssssssse3 Jun 30 19:23:24 s Jun 30 19:23:28 chunks Jun 30 19:26:16 Can I hold my Meego wrong? :-) Jun 30 19:26:30 Tadaa: yes Jun 30 19:26:37 Tadaa: we recommend not holding it (kidding) Jun 30 19:26:50 how does one hold a meego? Jun 30 19:26:58 just touch it gently RageistheNewSage Jun 30 19:27:30 ~~~ Jun 30 19:28:18 suihkulokki, don't think people who want to help are whiners. Jun 30 19:28:35 suihkulokki, that's certainly not a PRODUCTIVE way to designate them. Jun 30 19:28:39 w00t, the backend for some of the missing apps is already in git, at least calendar and email is there Jun 30 19:29:25 Hoping to build a makeshift mediaplayer for mah meegos tonight Jun 30 19:30:00 as I was just saying elsewhere.. my concern is that if development is not open now because components are not "ready", it shows that day one isn't completely day one.. and more important - that we could well be in for more big reveals in the future, while stuff isn't "ready" to be released - and that is what concerns me Jun 30 19:30:14 small reveals Jun 30 19:30:45 which I get... they have to go through internal & legal review etc Jun 30 19:30:47 I think it's great that stuff came out now, I'm happy for that, but after all the waiting - I thought we were supposed to be done with that :) Jun 30 19:30:55 I kan hez widget on meego's lockscreen? :) Jun 30 19:31:03 or applet Jun 30 19:31:04 Well, where's the tablet UX stuff? Jun 30 19:31:09 or whatever it called now Jun 30 19:31:10 lbt: then the reasoning for that should be made transparent Jun 30 19:31:14 open source != open development w00t Jun 30 19:31:29 RageistheNewSage: I'm well aware of the distinction Jun 30 19:31:33 :) Jun 30 19:31:40 w00t, awesome idea Jun 30 19:31:42 w00t, afaik these are only reference applications, all the backend stuff(meego) should be out now Jun 30 19:31:59 sorry, wazd even Jun 30 19:32:11 ah Jun 30 19:32:21 RageistheNewSage, except all anybody in MeeGo wants to talk about is how open it is. Jun 30 19:32:50 ultimately, the PR mismatch really confuses the hell out of everyone Jun 30 19:32:57 and it is being interpreted as posturing Jun 30 19:33:11 It's certainly far more open than maemo, so I'll take it Jun 30 19:33:41 I agree Jun 30 19:33:43 no disagreement there Jun 30 19:33:43 it is a step forward Jun 30 19:33:50 I'd just like it to keep going further Jun 30 19:34:03 and i know it will go further Jun 30 19:34:17 VDVsx: more backend stuff will show up the next days. Jun 30 19:34:32 i just fear that there will be a lot of damaged perception in the process. Jun 30 19:34:34 I would imagine more of the project being handed over to the linux foundation as things go on Jun 30 19:34:53 it's the only way i can frame it into words.. Jun 30 19:35:01 RageistheNewSage: unlikely Jun 30 19:35:12 they have nothing to do with day2day dev Jun 30 19:35:35 shouldn't that be "MeeGoMeeBot"? Jun 30 19:35:35 Linux Foundation still doesn't really have a clear or meaningful role in the project. Jun 30 19:35:44 it is unfortunately likely however, that meego core itself, will be quite hollow, with vendors magically filling in their own gaps for their products Jun 30 19:35:50 GAN900: agreed.. that isn't really clear Jun 30 19:35:59 this is, unless the community takes action and fills in the pieces themselves. Jun 30 19:36:15 install hurd, it's as free as it gets :) Jun 30 19:36:19 TSCHAKeee2: even then: "differentiation" Jun 30 19:36:21 ;) Jun 30 19:36:25 and sorry, i didn't mean meego core as in meego core Jun 30 19:36:30 I'm worried about what a mess the vendor shit is going to be Jun 30 19:36:36 i mean, that the base of what we eventually call "MeeGo" will be.... Jun 30 19:36:39 Since there seems to be little enforcement there Jun 30 19:36:40 ..quite useless on any device. Jun 30 19:36:45 Pandering to Nokai's stupidity. Jun 30 19:37:03 I'd imagine the moorestown handsets will stay fairly vanilla Jun 30 19:37:07 but who knows Jun 30 19:37:08 GAN900: will be interesting to see what Nokla do with it.. ;) Jun 30 19:37:20 Oops Jun 30 19:37:24 Nokia ._. Jun 30 19:37:28 s/Nokai/Nokia Jun 30 19:37:30 they are so terrible Jun 30 19:37:48 RageistheNewSage: i've NEVER known a cell phone vendor/carrier to stay vanilla.. the whole marketplace is a pack of wolves. Jun 30 19:37:50 Too bad they generally have the only hardware that doesn't suck Jun 30 19:37:59 My N900 is becoming more bricklike day by day Jun 30 19:38:02 x86 handsets are only useful to giggle at. Jun 30 19:38:10 and it looks pretty brick-ish to begin with Jun 30 19:38:28 I am happy with the N900. I got it knowing exactly what it was Jun 30 19:38:30 how do I install meego in my N900 as dual-boot ? Jun 30 19:38:34 i'm amazed it even exists at all Jun 30 19:38:40 I'd like to try it Jun 30 19:38:47 the_lord: it is not ready for you. Jun 30 19:39:11 "Your body is not ready" - Reggie Jun 30 19:39:20 the_lord: hate to be blunt, but if you phrase it that way, there is really nothing to..try...at the moment, as lots of stuff is still in the oven. Jun 30 19:39:29 GAN900: who knows.. atom is improving Jun 30 19:39:36 miracles might happen Jun 30 19:39:42 oh intel will catch up Jun 30 19:39:49 Also, I noticed the handset build uses 2.6.35(-rc3?) Jun 30 19:39:49 history tells us that Jun 30 19:39:52 anyone remember the Amiga? Jun 30 19:39:53 brace for slowness Jun 30 19:39:53 (they might find a way to embed a mini nuclear power plant in your handheld) Jun 30 19:39:55 ;) Jun 30 19:39:56 RageistheNewSage, i think you will find that nokia devs putting immense amounts of effort towards your machine and if it wasnt for those devs (many of whom are around you now) you wouldnt have an n900 or possibility to have meego on it at all Jun 30 19:40:39 lcuk: well, it's quite obvious idea :) Jun 30 19:40:51 speaking of crappy x86, this laptop is nearly out of battery, sigh Jun 30 19:40:52 lcuk: since 80% of the screen is empty :) Jun 30 19:41:21 We need SPARC laptops ;P Jun 30 19:41:34 s/laptops/netbooks Jun 30 19:41:45 RageistheNewSage, so if you want to help with maemo and meego, dont hide behind bitchyness, find out and help where you can, theres plenty of maemo and meego code on gitorious so help out Jun 30 19:41:49 RageistheNewSage: ++ Jun 30 19:42:26 I was gonna buy a sun fire or something on ebay Jun 30 19:42:30 I got snipped :( Jun 30 19:42:31 * TSCHAKeee2 had a sparc laptop long ago Jun 30 19:42:43 5 bids in 1 min Jun 30 19:43:09 CosmoHill: ever tried for MIPS netbook :) Jun 30 19:43:17 nope Jun 30 19:43:29 or any other netbook for that matter Jun 30 19:43:34 lol Jun 30 19:43:44 RageistheNewSage needs to go back to 4cha ;) Jun 30 19:43:49 4chan* Jun 30 19:43:51 ._. Jun 30 19:44:45 I like this meeting, I'm actually a lot more involed and I've not wondered off half way through Jun 30 19:45:21 Once I move onto my next phone I'm going to do a stage1 gentoo install on my N900 Jun 30 19:45:29 lol Jun 30 19:45:41 should be a pretty kickass tablet then Jun 30 19:47:49 Just a QQ; how is the community supposed to maintain the n900 build when we have some closed drivers Jun 30 19:49:17 GOOD question lbt Jun 30 19:49:39 TSCHAKeee2, how do you know if it's ready for me or not? Jun 30 19:50:25 RageistheNewSage: it is possible to build an image yourself using the closed components. iirc, they're isolated and few enough (down to 4) that it is not much of an issue Jun 30 19:50:55 microlith: just thinking in terms of kernel compatability and whatnot Jun 30 19:51:13 thankfully, none of the closed bits are part of the kernel Jun 30 19:51:16 ah Jun 30 19:51:44 I would have assumed there was some kernel code for the GPU Jun 30 19:51:58 that's fine then :) Jun 30 19:52:03 nothign closed Jun 30 19:52:20 CosmoHill: or you could type it out for him ;) Jun 30 19:52:20 you can build and load a 2.6.28 kernel for maemo now and it'll work with 3D Jun 30 19:52:31 w00t, so is ARm? Jun 30 19:52:47 GAN900: of course Jun 30 19:52:55 there are other changes making it difficult to move the N900 to 2.6.29 and beyond, not totally sure what Jun 30 19:52:57 er Jun 30 19:52:58 GAN900: my meaning was that x86 might not be always something to laugh at Jun 30 19:53:02 Not a question Jun 30 19:53:06 GAN900: it might end up actually tangible Jun 30 19:53:09 * GAN900 is tyoing on the move Jun 30 19:53:17 tyoing is fun Jun 30 19:53:18 lbt: maybe if I have time Jun 30 19:53:18 typoing on the move? :P Jun 30 19:53:21 Doubt it'll ever be better than ARM Jun 30 19:53:25 make some kinda web page or something Jun 30 19:53:33 Well, in the reasonable-term. Jun 30 19:53:42 *nod* Jun 30 19:53:46 better than arm at what? Jun 30 19:53:47 typoing on the move sounds actate Jun 30 19:53:51 I mean, they're not even on the same continent right now. Jun 30 19:53:52 If Apple were to buy arm then it will need to get better Jun 30 19:54:06 trip0, for a balanced experience in a mobile xontext. Jun 30 19:54:15 Why would Apple buy ARM? Jun 30 19:54:19 lol @ apple buying arm Jun 30 19:54:30 There has been speculation Jun 30 19:54:35 I don't see the reason Jun 30 19:54:38 old and unfounded speculation Jun 30 19:54:43 antitrust regulators would have a field day Jun 30 19:54:45 GAN900: because they have a lot of money Jun 30 19:54:53 that's the only reason people say Jun 30 19:54:58 lol Jun 30 19:55:03 it's a wild rumour with no basis in reality Jun 30 19:55:16 Maybe Apple should buy a company that designs usable antenna systems Jun 30 19:55:17 "gee what do i do with all this cash? i know lets buy arm!" Jun 30 19:55:19 apple holds enough rights to arm tech that there is no benefit to buying them Jun 30 19:55:19 thiago: wtf are you doing at the office this late :P Jun 30 19:55:29 if Apple tried to buy ARM, all the rest of the ARM-licensees would gather together and make a bigger offer Jun 30 19:55:43 w00t: was working on the coarse timer support and now I'm rebuilding Qt on the laptop Jun 30 19:55:50 ah Jun 30 19:55:55 coarse timer? new class? Jun 30 19:56:04 w00t: turns out I've been waiting stupidly because I forgot to populate the compile farm with the laptop's compiler Jun 30 19:56:11 ..oops. Jun 30 19:56:16 so it was running 2 compile jobs. I could have been at home. Jun 30 19:56:22 could you whip us a GSM modem driver for n900 real quick while you're there? ;P Jun 30 19:56:30 now it's at a nice ~10 jobs Jun 30 19:57:06 w00t: no new class, just a new enum in QTimer and a couple of overloads (QObject, QTimer, QBasicTimer and QAbstractEventDispatcher) Jun 30 19:57:17 cool Jun 30 19:57:38 * timeless_mbp chuckles Jun 30 19:57:46 * w00t has a huge backlog of Qt stuff to get through Jun 30 19:57:49 GAN900, the only current drawback to x86 for a handset is power usage. Jun 30 19:57:54 lcuk: pointing to fremantle as a reliable release process? Jun 30 19:58:06 the regressions we've managed in various releases are depressing Jun 30 19:58:10 trip0: but for a device which has 'being mobile' as a main requirement, that's a pretty huge drawback Jun 30 19:58:15 using it as an example of human testing which works Jun 30 19:58:33 w00t, idk, my n900 has pretty crappy power usage as it is... Jun 30 19:58:35 our testers are spot on and find things we miss regularly :P Jun 30 19:59:00 * timeless_mbp frowns Jun 30 19:59:07 are your testers better than my testers? Jun 30 19:59:10 and i'm sure in time atom will be competitive in terms of power Jun 30 19:59:17 because the tester i referenced this morning... Jun 30 19:59:19 trip0: right, and if you think using a chip which draws *more* power will help there.. :P Jun 30 19:59:26 trip0, maybe in 5 years Jun 30 19:59:28 lol timeless_mbp Jun 30 19:59:47 Right now competitive is the last word I would use. Jun 30 20:00:01 * CosmoHill waits to get flooded with questions Jun 30 20:00:23 arjan: nice shoot down Jun 30 20:00:43 heheh Jun 30 20:00:52 lcuk: we printed one of the bugs he touched and framed it on our glass wing Jun 30 20:01:01 he's actually a minor player in that bug Jun 30 20:01:18 yeah, that was pretty much a no brainer... Jun 30 20:01:31 CosmoHill: it's reality though Jun 30 20:01:31 seeing as meego's kernel drivers would go upstream anyway... :P Jun 30 20:01:31 thats cool timeless_mbp that was a doozy Jun 30 20:01:33 lbt: you have a question? Jun 30 20:01:44 or were you waving goodbye? Jun 30 20:01:53 lkml acceptence criteria is "it must buidl" Jun 30 20:01:56 that was lcuk :) Jun 30 20:02:00 if you don't even that then I do not want to see your code Jun 30 20:02:02 my bad Jun 30 20:02:17 * lcuk waves for lots of reasons Jun 30 20:02:19 creative are screwed if that's the criteria Jun 30 20:02:22 usually cos i want a beer Jun 30 20:02:25 isn't the other criteria, "it must behave?" :P Jun 30 20:02:33 oh wait, sorry, I was dreaming, disregard Jun 30 20:02:36 :P :) Jun 30 20:02:40 w00t: now I'm going home Jun 30 20:02:51 timeless_mbp, also, can show examples of both good and bad testing Jun 30 20:03:21 kad, VDVsx is steering me towards the automation testing tools Jun 30 20:03:40 any idea where they are Jun 30 20:03:50 aww foxes Jun 30 20:04:07 (n900 video) Jun 30 20:04:10 thiago: god tur Jun 30 20:05:48 lcuk, VDVsx: 1 sec, I'll find link for you Jun 30 20:05:54 cool ta Jun 30 20:07:13 hmm. I remember I saw them on meego.gitorious.org about week ago :( Jun 30 20:07:27 damn you people Jun 30 20:07:32 now I want a N900 with meego Jun 30 20:07:37 >.< Jun 30 20:08:20 lcuk: http://gitorious.org/+qa-tools Jun 30 20:08:27 salut kad Jun 30 20:08:29 CosmoHill: if you want to actually use it as a phone, you will have to wait a bit longer Jun 30 20:08:51 well I don't have a N900 Jun 30 20:08:57 lcuk: and people from this team http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/QA-tools would be best people to speak about QA plans and tools to be used. Jun 30 20:08:59 or money Jun 30 20:09:00 kad, ill have a proper read Jun 30 20:09:12 uhh, I need another phone to get started with meego on n900 :D Jun 30 20:09:34 * TSCHAKeee2 blinks Jun 30 20:09:37 CosmoHill: in that case, you will have to wait a bit longer Jun 30 20:09:38 we need a meego-community purchase plan for Aava handsets Jun 30 20:09:38 that does not bode well :P Jun 30 20:09:46 lpotter: lol Jun 30 20:10:49 so... are the n900 bits nearly ready :3 Jun 30 20:10:53 kad, who is in charge of writing the tests? is it down to the original developer, or do you have test case engineers? Jun 30 20:11:17 lcuk: anyone can contribute test packages which would be utilized in QA infra Jun 30 20:11:37 I saw a n900 and it was a lot thicker than I expected Jun 30 20:11:45 thats good, do any of the tests check UI interaction, or are they all model based testcases? Jun 30 20:14:30 so who's the brave guy that will install meego in the n900 and make a video ? :P Jun 30 20:14:48 Stskeeps will! :D Jun 30 20:14:59 VDVsx Jun 30 20:15:01 about to Jun 30 20:15:08 just noticed the ks is up Jun 30 20:15:18 coooll Jun 30 20:16:44 VDVsx: I think Carsten is now relaxing on his holidays, and would have more enjoyable things to do this evening :) Jun 30 20:17:00 lcuk, ^ Jun 30 20:17:03 :D Jun 30 20:17:08 oh, yeah, lcuk :) Jun 30 20:17:23 however be aware that this is pre-alpha and kernel 2.6.35 has awful performance at the moment Jun 30 20:17:25 hey, don't pick on stskeeps while he's on holiday :) Jun 30 20:17:46 VDVsx: if I get an image built, I'll do a video Jun 30 20:17:50 problem will be building an image Jun 30 20:17:53 mic and I don't get one Jun 30 20:17:54 no1 is picking on him, hes sat in a tent with beer and music and only a splattering of technology Jun 30 20:17:54 -e Jun 30 20:17:56 * VDVsx pokes Stskeeps on fb :P Jun 30 20:18:11 VDVsx: he was on his phone in the meeting Jun 30 20:18:11 he signed off 15mins ago Jun 30 20:18:29 I'm just jealous because it seems like everyone is out on holiday except me. Jun 30 20:18:33 so probably onto his 3rd pint now Jun 30 20:18:36 DawnFoster: I've noticed that w00t has in his cloaked hostname "podcast", which reminds me Jun 30 20:18:45 DawnFoster, you're not alone :D Jun 30 20:18:59 DawnFoster: maybe it would be good idea that we would organize in addition to meetings some podcasts about meego ? Jun 30 20:19:21 kad: I think that's a great idea Jun 30 20:19:23 DawnFoster: aww Jun 30 20:19:28 I got my car back today :D Jun 30 20:19:29 I've even done some podcasting Jun 30 20:19:39 it's only a matter of time before I get pulled over :/ Jun 30 20:20:19 DawnFoster, kad, you are both aware that if you do it, it will require a kickass podcast application for people to listen with :p Jun 30 20:20:47 hmm Jun 30 20:20:47 http://succeedinevil.com/2006/06/13/episode-i-a-thursday-without-golf/ Jun 30 20:20:54 image build failed ._. Jun 30 20:20:55 lcuk: are you volunteering to write one :) Jun 30 20:20:56 speaking of podcasts Jun 30 20:21:32 DawnFoster, i barely have speakers enabled and have a very small set of musical tastes, i dont think ive ever downloaded a podcast in my life Jun 30 20:21:48 lcuk: see my link :3 Jun 30 20:21:49 so i wouldnt be the best person to make one :) Jun 30 20:21:57 lcuk: gpodder was quite good for me on my n900 :) Jun 30 20:22:11 .ks for MeeGo N900 now in http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php Jun 30 20:22:17 thanks tekojo Jun 30 20:22:18 yeah thp has built that amazingly well Jun 30 20:22:22 * CosmoHill gives tekojo a cookie Jun 30 20:22:41 tekojo, THANKS! NOW GO ON HOLIDAY, QUICK! Jun 30 20:22:51 meego-handset-armv7l-n900-nokia-closed-1.0.80.8.20100630.ks is the file Jun 30 20:23:11 * lcuk hunts for an n900 Jun 30 20:23:16 lcuk: thanks, this is where work and hobby is blurred Jun 30 20:23:30 indeed dude, how long you off for? Jun 30 20:23:49 so tekojo... the infrastructure on valhalla's blog? Jun 30 20:24:09 haven't read it myself, so don't know what he said :) Jun 30 20:24:21 * microlith shudders and prepares to try and get a fedora install going Jun 30 20:24:21 but we are still stuck with hardware :/ Jun 30 20:24:24 "Today, we are also opening the MeeGo Build Infrastructure." Jun 30 20:24:42 just wondered what it meant... Jun 30 20:24:49 need a third rack at OSU and some more bandwidth from the engineers involved Jun 30 20:25:04 OK Jun 30 20:25:13 lbt: it should be about community OBS, because the distro's one is pending before we deploy 2.x Jun 30 20:25:38 kad: yeah, I figured I'd know about the community one :) Jun 30 20:25:50 and I thought the main one needed 2.1 + Jun 30 20:26:24 reminds me.... anaZ: I still need to connect the community OBS to the main OBS Jun 30 20:26:27 yep, I need to put a mail out to the relevant people that I'll be away on vacation and please get that rack Jun 30 20:26:45 * microlith grabs F12 live cd Jun 30 20:26:50 lbt: yes, 2.1 or at least some snapshots from master. Jun 30 20:26:51 X-Fade: did anaZ need anything from us? IPs? Jun 30 20:27:06 lbt: He didn't mail back. Jun 30 20:27:14 makes sense... and I'm kinda hoping the community one will allow you to keep the main one "clean" Jun 30 20:27:36 But for snapshots we don't need access right? Jun 30 20:27:43 no, not so much Jun 30 20:27:59 and kad, those are public and regular now? Jun 30 20:28:05 Although if people want to build against bleading edge.. Jun 30 20:28:10 we could do with rsync though! Jun 30 20:28:17 Yes, true. Jun 30 20:28:18 weird question, has anyone tried to make a netbook image with the handset ux yet? Jun 30 20:28:32 how did I get the IMEI from device (n900), there was some key code or something Jun 30 20:28:34 X-Fade: I'd like that ... but I can live without if they're loaded Jun 30 20:28:44 petteri: About Jun 30 20:28:51 lbt: yes, http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/ Jun 30 20:28:52 petteri: setting and at the bottom about device Jun 30 20:28:53 http://meego.com/devices/handset/handset-supported-hardware <- QUESTION: why this page refers to v1.1? Jun 30 20:28:57 Settings/About Jun 30 20:29:07 DawnFoster: ^^ see Sage's question Jun 30 20:29:07 tekojo: use the default netbook kickstart file, and just replace the package groups Jun 30 20:29:11 kad: and rsync? Jun 30 20:29:20 I think InformatiQ wants that too Jun 30 20:29:25 tekojo: and change the resolution for meegotouchhome Jun 30 20:29:31 hey X-Fade Jun 30 20:29:34 lbt: rsync -> ask anaZ :) Jun 30 20:29:36 Aard: I was thinking of that, so it is as simple as that? Jun 30 20:29:42 lbt, tekojo thanks. Got it :) Jun 30 20:29:52 * lbt yells louder at anaZ... :D Jun 30 20:29:55 tekojo: yep. I've been using a netbook for testing before I got my aava Jun 30 20:29:59 Sage: because it's about handset. and handset is only part of 1.1+ Jun 30 20:30:05 tekojo: isn't http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/1.0.80.8.20100629.1/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-netbook-mtf/meego-handset-ia32-netbook-mtf-1.0.80.8.20100629.1.img what you are asking ? Jun 30 20:30:41 kad: I think that page should say "upcoming MeeGo v1.1 Handset" or something like that. Jun 30 20:31:02 X-Fade, InformatiQ: given how slow the main server is, is it worth doing one sync to pmo and from there to nokia internal? Jun 30 20:31:04 looks like moorsetown consumes about 4watts full-till. my sheevaplug consumes about 6W with bt and ethernet on Jun 30 20:31:11 then I should have an image Jun 30 20:31:33 trip0: wow Jun 30 20:31:38 is this what we're waiting for? Jun 30 20:31:39 meego-handset-armv7l-n900-nokia-closed-1.0.80.8.20100630.ks Jun 30 20:31:39 well, will try to make an image at home anyeay Jun 30 20:31:43 I have a crap Viglen that uses 7w when turned off :/ Jun 30 20:31:57 lbt: That can be discussed, rsyncing is not that hard on the server if we limit the rate. Jun 30 20:32:26 X-Fade: yeah, I meant assuming we don't get it Jun 30 20:32:54 tekojo: quick hack for the resolution thing, add this to your kickstart: sed -i 's/864/1024/' /etc/meegotouch/devices.conf; sed -i 's/480/600/' /etc/meegotouch/devices.conf Jun 30 20:32:55 I know I've got things I'd rather get first... like somewhere to run REVS Jun 30 20:33:09 th3hate: that and http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 Jun 30 20:33:29 lbt: Otherwise we can web scrape ;) Jun 30 20:33:37 its released in the code drop already Jun 30 20:33:37 bigger screen than that :) Jun 30 20:33:40 the kick start file Jun 30 20:33:55 kad: can REVS help on this : http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.1 or is it expected to be more freeform? Jun 30 20:33:58 we really need meegotouch to just ask X what the screen resolution is Jun 30 20:34:09 rather than it being a config file Jun 30 20:34:16 that's actually a rather bad bug if you ask me Jun 30 20:34:28 arjan: asking X would be more optimal Jun 30 20:34:46 it isn't like that is all that hard, either Jun 30 20:34:48 lbt: it would be helping to some extend. but there would be also things which didn't mentioned in changelogs. (e.g. reports from bugzilla) Jun 30 20:35:24 kad: *nod* we should have bzilla linkages... and summaries too Jun 30 20:35:35 lbt: wiki would be more like for people, and less techincal meego team members who are working on something not done inside source code :) Jun 30 20:35:36 I was talking to Stephen (?) yesterday Jun 30 20:35:45 on exactly that Jun 30 20:35:50 w00t_ / Sage: that's an oversight - we'll get that fixed. Jun 30 20:35:59 OK... Jun 30 20:36:06 arjan: QDesktopWidget has the screen size Jun 30 20:36:15 DawnFoster: cool, thanks Jun 30 20:36:32 what hardware will meego run on? Jun 30 20:36:40 mgolisch: Atom and ARM Jun 30 20:36:46 nothing else? Jun 30 20:36:55 what do you want it to run on Jun 30 20:37:21 thiago: not saying it's hard to get the screen size. just it makes it all the more lame that it's ALSO in some other random config file Jun 30 20:37:30 arjan: yup Jun 30 20:37:32 will those netbook images boot on my macbook? Jun 30 20:37:42 too lazy to search my netbook Jun 30 20:37:59 arjan: I'm trying to convince people here to improve on the sysinfo part of Qt, to include the relevant information Jun 30 20:38:03 arjan, doesnt x11 store the resolution in some lame config file too (technically) :p Jun 30 20:38:08 arjan: including the form-factor and type of device Jun 30 20:38:21 arjan: presence of a touchscreen, multitouch, keyboard, etc. Jun 30 20:38:29 mgoetz: dunno - try USB-botting it and find out. ;) Jun 30 20:38:43 mgolisch, rather... Jun 30 20:38:43 thiago_home, i see the multitouch qt bug has been reactivated Jun 30 20:38:49 errr not multitouch Jun 30 20:38:52 multicast Jun 30 20:38:59 lcuk: brad was working on that one Jun 30 20:39:06 yeah saw today :) Jun 30 20:39:08 hi, does someone know how to convert an ubiimg to lets say a tgz? Jun 30 20:39:20 BluesLee, right click, "Compress" Jun 30 20:39:21 arjan: btw, I wanted to ask you: as a kernel developer, do you recommend using timerfds ? Jun 30 20:39:22 ;) Jun 30 20:39:28 i dont know the real way though Jun 30 20:39:33 lcuk: no X uses EDID to pull it from the hardware Jun 30 20:39:42 using a config file is only a last resort Jun 30 20:39:47 arjan, not all hardware supplies it Jun 30 20:39:58 lcuk: ;-) Jun 30 20:40:03 basically its just moving the config though to OS Jun 30 20:40:34 * lcuk has similar configuralities Jun 30 20:40:40 thiago: not really; not unless you want to select() on set of timers Jun 30 20:40:46 * tekojo goes to bed, long day Jun 30 20:40:51 night tekojo Jun 30 20:40:58 night Jun 30 20:41:00 gnite tekojo \o Jun 30 20:41:04 it turns harder to mount it, damn Jun 30 20:41:14 o/ Jun 30 20:41:27 lcuk: even if it's manual like that, it should be in one place Jun 30 20:41:34 so that correct apps that ask X what it is, get the one true answer Jun 30 20:41:53 * lcuk nods Jun 30 20:42:27 arjan: ok, thanks for the confirmation Jun 30 20:42:39 arjan: sounded like an overkill to make a syscall to create timers Jun 30 20:42:59 select FTW Jun 30 20:43:44 can someone deal with this "zaffe" poster on the meego forums? Jun 30 20:44:12 why does nokia not provide a tarball of the rootfs ... hmmm Jun 30 20:45:45 it would be much better as many of us just want to try it out by dual booting from micro sd Jun 30 20:45:46 thiago: if you have many different ones it means your mail poll/select loop does not need to do the min() operator Jun 30 20:45:48 yes lame Jun 30 20:46:21 arjan: well, the code I've just implemented rounds the timer up as well Jun 30 20:46:33 rounds up to a millisecond Jun 30 20:46:59 BluesLee, IIRc, you need to go through the normal flashing process which involves entering your S/N on the interwebs to get the image. Jun 30 20:47:38 trip0: you mean my imei ... i did that Jun 30 20:48:18 trip0: but unfortunately there is a ubiimg for flashing the nand of the n900 and a qemu image Jun 30 20:48:40 dd the qemu image to sd? Jun 30 20:48:45 don't Jun 30 20:48:52 trip0: a tarball for dualboot is not there Jun 30 20:49:04 trip0: i tried that Jun 30 20:49:12 hmm Jun 30 20:49:21 trip0: but i dont know how to use mkfs.ubifs Jun 30 20:49:42 this is the "Very Coarse" mode I implemented: Jun 30 20:49:43 timer VC 1 interval 25 expected at 1400239.799065 will fire first at 1400240.000000 Jun 30 20:49:43 trip0: before i went for ext2 Jun 30 20:49:53 rounds to a second Jun 30 20:50:12 the ubiffs image on tablets-dev is -old- Jun 30 20:50:30 those 25-second timers are D-Bus Jun 30 20:50:39 brb Jun 30 20:50:55 microlith: there is a new one for the n900 meego-codedrop-arm-n900-closed-201003311635.ubiimg Jun 30 20:51:07 here's a long-running one: Jun 30 20:51:08 BluesLee: that is old image Jun 30 20:51:08 timer C 16777217 interval 10000 firing at 1400295.010922 (orig 1400295.274492 scheduled at 1400295.000000 ) off by -0.26357 activation 257 avg error -0.266518 Jun 30 20:51:14 ohh Jun 30 20:51:27 its the date there, damn old Jun 30 20:52:01 sorry Jun 30 20:52:09 heh Jun 30 20:52:37 the .ks file will build you an appropriate imahe Jun 30 20:52:42 image* Jun 30 20:54:48 ml-mobile: i had to reread that damn post on the maemo forum, to much misleading links there Jun 30 20:55:41 are we going to have the sdk for handset ux yet? Jun 30 20:56:32 this baby: http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux Jun 30 20:58:09 just wondering Jun 30 20:58:31 how would you get music and photos onto a meego phone, usb / bluetooth / memory card transfer? Jun 30 20:58:45 ml-mobile: is there a howto or a readme? Jun 30 20:59:16 CosmoHill: network? Jun 30 20:59:33 one sec, will post a link Jun 30 20:59:52 oh yeah wifi, Jun 30 21:00:01 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Creating_ARM_image_using_MeeGo_Image_Creator#Run_MeeGo_Image_Creator Jun 30 21:00:30 thanx Jun 30 21:01:53 CosmoHill: in n900 usb-networking is one posible Jun 30 21:03:02 my friends were talking about the iphone Jun 30 21:03:27 lots of money for everything I don't want and nothing I do want Jun 30 21:03:31 Hi All, joining late, so sorry I not informed. Tried the latest .ks file without success. Is it supposed to work? Jun 30 21:03:54 conny: how latest? one came out within the past hour Jun 30 21:04:17 CosmoHill: This one: meego-handset-armv7l-n900-nokia-closed-1.0.80.8.20100630.ks Jun 30 21:06:19 okay that is the latest Jun 30 21:07:15 And is it supposed to work? I'm new to mic2 etc. I get a stack trace. After: Getting comps repodata/comps.xml from repo nokia-proprietary... Jun 30 21:09:02 Mock the week :) Jun 30 21:09:25 dammit it's a repeat Jun 30 21:10:31 hey, only now noted that forum.meego.com is much better with the non-default style (fluid) Jun 30 21:10:42 Maybe I should just go to sleep and wait until the dust has settled :) Jun 30 21:20:36 hi Jun 30 21:20:54 * greenback is new to meego interested in this thing Jun 30 21:21:35 hi Jun 30 21:23:02 welcome andyross Jun 30 21:23:14 So... anyone got a N900 image yet or am I going to have to download fedora 12 :3c Jun 30 21:23:33 if you can run fedora 12 on a N900 i'll be impressed Jun 30 21:23:44 pfft, easy Jun 30 21:24:05 Just run it in Virtualbox (on gentoo( Jun 30 21:24:13 s/(/) Jun 30 21:24:26 Download it, not sure it will work, though. I'm trying to build using Ubuntu, but no success so far. Jun 30 21:26:09 ubuntu x86? Jun 30 21:26:45 ubuntu x86_64 Jun 30 21:27:18 i tried on ubuntu before and it didn't work Jun 30 21:27:27 don't waste your time Jun 30 21:27:37 hi everyone -- quick question Jun 30 21:27:38 Someone with success on Fedora? Jun 30 21:27:50 is there any way to run the Handset variant emulated? Jun 30 21:28:53 Better use Fedora 12 as stated in the docs or Fedora 13? Jun 30 21:28:56 ... hope this is not a frequent question omg should have rtf release notes etc etc, but still :) Jun 30 21:29:50 first person to put their hand up gets my help Jun 30 21:30:00 ^ Jun 30 21:30:01 millenomi: You first need an image. At the moment there are no pre-build images. Once you have the image it should be possible to run it using qemu. Jun 30 21:30:21 .o/ << what I'm looking for Jun 30 21:30:31 someone said the image won't work in qemu Jun 30 21:30:38 so the Aava image cannot be run in an emu? Jun 30 21:30:39 oh. Jun 30 21:30:45 because of lack of 3d Jun 30 21:30:46 correct, not enough 3D support Jun 30 21:30:53 uf. Jun 30 21:30:57 villemv_: don't know, but the last N900 image did work in qemu. Jun 30 21:31:06 Second conny's question: Can we build under Fedora 13 painlessly, or better to use Fedora 12? Jun 30 21:31:21 the latest N900 image actually has a UX which requires 3D acceleration Jun 30 21:31:58 so no emu for now Jun 30 21:31:59 CosmoHill: True, but Maemo5 could be run withouth 3d/HW. Was just a bit low. Jun 30 21:32:00 neidlingerj: couldn't get it to work on F13 Jun 30 21:32:01 :( Jun 30 21:32:17 ok f12 it is, thanks ScottishDuck Jun 30 21:32:37 So any positive feedback for F12? Jun 30 21:32:54 will we see a ready image by tomrrow, or we have to make our own? Jun 30 21:33:16 i would posture they aren't going to put up a ready image Jun 30 21:33:52 how hard is it to make one? Jun 30 21:34:25 lets say i have fedora ready Jun 30 21:34:45 how much time does it take to make the image Jun 30 21:35:13 stskeeps: Can you say something on building the handset image on Fedora 12? Is it possible or should we wait for another .ks file? Jun 30 21:36:52 another question! Jun 30 21:36:57 what is the Ui font in Handset? Jun 30 21:36:59 UI* Jun 30 21:37:05 I'm itching to make mockups Jun 30 21:37:19 is the n900 image up yet? is the n900 image up yet? is the n900 image up yet? is the n900 image up yet? Jun 30 21:37:21 ;) Jun 30 21:37:48 TSCHAKeee2: No :) Jun 30 21:37:56 heheheh Jun 30 21:38:00 ';) Jun 30 21:38:17 Do I need to turn this channel around!? Jun 30 21:38:31 microlith: HE STARTED IT! Jun 30 21:38:34 :P Jun 30 21:38:36 :) Jun 30 21:38:41 okay i'm gonna stop acting like a jackass ;) Jun 30 21:40:03 hehr Jun 30 21:40:14 I cannot type today Jun 30 21:40:19 not even simple thigns Jun 30 21:40:22 @#$@# Jun 30 21:40:54 microlith: lysdexia scuks, don't it? Jun 30 21:40:58 ;) Jun 30 21:43:40 will we see a ready image by tomrrow, or we have to make our own ? Jun 30 22:03:36 nite all, sweet dreams Jun 30 22:03:43 bye bye Jun 30 22:03:47 not that you'll read this Jun 30 22:03:49 boobs Jun 30 22:05:31 so, no idea on what font is that? (is it custom?) Jun 30 22:07:04 nut split Jun 30 22:07:33 ow Jun 30 22:07:43 font? Jun 30 22:07:45 mwhahahahahha Jun 30 22:07:58 the font in the handset UI screenshots Jun 30 22:08:02 millenomi: I believe it's Droid Sans Jun 30 22:08:14 at least, it should be ;) Jun 30 22:08:15 oh! Jun 30 22:08:17 yup it is Jun 30 22:08:42 that's why I was getting this Android vibe, then. Jun 30 22:08:43 ok Jun 30 22:08:43 thanks Jun 30 22:08:43 :) Jun 30 22:08:44 unsplit! Jun 30 22:12:36 ew, you'd think an open source font would be easy to find Jun 30 22:12:53 the Droid family has an entire website dedicated to them without a single download link (!) Jun 30 22:12:58 http://www.droidfonts.com/ Jun 30 22:13:57 anyway, found 'em: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=snapshot;h=39b04dd27e6d20809f8ff26920d1e761a0005252;sf=tgz Jun 30 22:18:15 so, looking at the screenshots: there are actually three top bar UIs? strange. Jun 30 22:18:31 ok, Firefox's is excusable. Jun 30 22:18:40 * CosmoHill looks at his latency bar Jun 30 22:18:52 well the only way is down Jun 30 22:18:53 the SMS top bar is thinner. Jun 30 22:19:12 than the top bar in the pictures explorer Jun 30 22:19:31 maybe because it's a drill-down? Jun 30 22:39:31 anyone mind if I ask a VMware question? Jun 30 22:40:09 only if someone can answer it Jun 30 22:40:19 awesome Jun 30 22:40:31 wait, does that mean if my question isn't answered I get blamed? Jun 30 22:41:21 anywa Jun 30 22:41:44 I have VMware ESXI 4.0 64bit and I download the client from it Jun 30 22:41:50 but it doesn't install on windows 7 Jun 30 22:42:19 Is your windows 7 install 64 bit? Jun 30 22:42:22 it's VMware vSphere client and I can't download it because you need to buy something I think Jun 30 22:42:26 chris_: yes Jun 30 22:43:12 VMware go is driving me up the wall Jun 30 22:43:32 so is there a GUI program I can use to manage ESXi 4? Jun 30 22:43:44 I have Inferstructore client to manage ESXi 3.5 Jun 30 22:43:58 pfft GUI Jun 30 22:44:04 since when did anyone need GUI Jun 30 22:45:44 basically my goal is to have a windows a linux cluster head node on the same physical machine Jun 30 22:46:18 I just want to get the VMs set up and sort out remote desktop then I don't have to touch them again Jun 30 22:47:02 So, the server needs to be Windows? Jun 30 22:47:56 I plan to have Windows HPC and Rocks Cluster running on VMware Jun 30 22:48:53 Sorry, out of my scope. Jun 30 22:49:31 son of a bitch actually ran away Jun 30 22:50:24 oh well Jun 30 22:50:38 on thursday I'll go back to uni and swear at it for a few more hours Jun 30 22:52:46 thiago_home: installed on your aava yet? :P Jun 30 22:53:19 w00t_: not yet Jun 30 22:53:26 w00t_: I'll see if I have time tomorrow Jun 30 22:53:42 hehe Jun 30 22:53:55 w00t_: I should take it with me to akademy Jun 30 22:53:57 * w00t_ is trying to do battle with fedora to get an image built for n900 Jun 30 22:54:23 that's actually a good idea Jun 30 22:54:34 * thiago_home needs to verify if the device he got is a public one Jun 30 22:54:53 pfft, take it anyway, let god sort out the NDAs Jun 30 22:54:54 :P Jun 30 22:55:43 where's valtteri... Jun 30 22:55:58 he's the one who arranged those aava for me Jun 30 22:56:18 if he's got spares, I'll take 20 :-P Jun 30 22:56:49 we were supposed to pay it from our cost centre, but somehow they arrived and weren't charged Jun 30 22:58:01 anyway, now the paperweights can be put to good use Jun 30 22:58:45 hehe Jun 30 22:58:55 * thiago_home sends himself an email to bring a USB cable home Jun 30 23:00:08 I received them last week, no toolchain, didn't do anything at boot Jun 30 23:00:18 power on, plug USB cable, "hmm... it shows up as USB serial" Jun 30 23:00:44 install minicom, connect to /dev/ttyACM0 Jun 30 23:00:53 I'd actually probably *buy* an aava if they were available.. Jun 30 23:00:59 "cool, a busybox prompt. Nothing installed. /sbin/poweroff" Jun 30 23:01:16 lol Jun 30 23:01:24 busybox makes me sad Jun 30 23:29:08 #meego-dev Jun 30 23:36:10 night night / bonne nuit Jun 30 23:37:50 [warning: I am new to meego] Is it easy to develop system software for meego? I have a bad experience with apple where you have to sign all sorts of crap, and swear to the holy steve that you abide by their rules. Are there restrictions to what you can touch? (e.g., can I develop a kernel module and install on my n900 without having to get permission from anybody?) Jun 30 23:41:47 Drakeson, as easy as it gets Jun 30 23:42:42 and Drakeson, yes, people have installed 3rd party kernel modules in maemo Jun 30 23:43:00 i can't imagine it would be terribly different for meego Jun 30 23:43:35 so uh... is the n900 .ks broken? Jun 30 23:43:36 anyone tried building the new MeeGo from the kickstart file? Mine starts and downloads the repo files.. but then fails on a bunch of missing dependencies. Jun 30 23:43:45 ^ Jun 30 23:44:12 do I need extra hardware to touch kernel modules? Jun 30 23:44:40 Drakeson, extra hardware? Jun 30 23:44:49 to change the firmware Jun 30 23:45:02 you need a PC of some sort to flash it Jun 30 23:45:25 I think that there are some issues with the current .ks file. Jun 30 23:45:41 trip0: thanks Jun 30 23:45:48 They've been working to get a new one up, but not sure about the status on it Jun 30 23:46:00 ok, thanks Dawn :) Jun 30 23:46:05 Thought I'd try Jun 30 23:46:10 trip0: I don't need windows, or some such, right? Jun 30 23:46:16 nope Jun 30 23:46:20 coool :) Jun 30 23:53:43 Are these the correct instructions for N900 as well (once the .ks file is ready ofcourse) --> http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Creating_ARM_image_using_MeeGo_Image_Creator Jul 01 00:25:55 w00t_ Jul 01 00:25:57 what you got? Jul 01 00:26:19 FatalSaint: I dunno, waiting for m-i-c to tell me "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG" Jul 01 00:26:24 lol Jul 01 00:26:25 if it doesn't I'll dance and be happy Jul 01 00:26:43 so far it looks promising, downloading lots of stuff Jul 01 00:26:53 I can get it as far as Retrieving the repository xmls.. then a bunch of Jul 01 00:26:57 xorg-x11-drv-fbdev-sgx-0.4.0-2.7.armv5tel from nokia-proprietary has depsolving problems Jul 01 00:26:57 --> Missing Dependency: libgcc_s.so.1 is needed by package xorg-x11-drv-fbdev-sgx-0.4.0-2.7.armv5tel (nokia-proprietary) Jul 01 00:27:01 did you change the .ks file? Jul 01 00:27:08 I had the failed deps problem earlier too, but gave m-i-c different incantations and it seems to be going further Jul 01 00:27:17 :) Jul 01 00:27:46 (this really is one of the shittiest tools I think I've ever seen though, the hassles it put me through to get it working...) Jul 01 00:27:52 lol Jul 01 00:28:06 what incantations did you use if you dont mine me asking? Jul 01 00:28:13 I'd gladly tell you Jul 01 00:28:18 but, I'd have to interrupt the download Jul 01 00:28:22 lol Jul 01 00:28:24 :| Jul 01 00:28:31 new terminal with a ps -ef | grep mic? Jul 01 00:28:33 hm Jul 01 00:28:37 might work, hold on Jul 01 00:29:07 /usr/bin/python -t /usr/bin/mic-image-creator --run-mode=0 --cache=cache --format=ubi --arch=armv7l --config=meego-handset-armv7l-n900-nokia-closed-1.0.80.8.20100630.ks Jul 01 00:29:08 while that downloads, quickly make a GSM modem driver and mediaplayer for meego that you can add to the repo Jul 01 00:29:12 if you dont mind Jul 01 00:29:26 :) Jul 01 00:29:33 lol Jul 01 00:29:36 ScottishDuck: shouldn't be hard to grab some existing media player and chuck it on there tbh Jul 01 00:29:45 I figured that Jul 01 00:29:45 That lack of Phone support is quite frustrating for me :( Jul 01 00:29:58 the only expectation I had was to be able to make and receive phone calls lol Jul 01 00:30:07 hey Jul 01 00:30:08 its working Jul 01 00:30:12 ? Jul 01 00:30:15 w00t_ ftw Jul 01 00:30:19 FatalSaint: to borrow a joke from a friend of mine: you want to use your mobile computer as a phone!? Jul 01 00:30:24 FatalSaint: I'll post it on tmo too then Jul 01 00:30:35 so... you have to use python to make it work :( Jul 01 00:30:39 looks like all you added was python -t? Jul 01 00:31:02 Any videos of N900 and MeeGo yet? Jul 01 00:31:15 well it doesnt work yet Jul 01 00:31:20 so a good guess would be no Jul 01 00:31:27 FatalSaint: I didn't add that, that's just what happens when I call mic-image-creator Jul 01 00:31:40 oh, I was also using arm5 not armv7l I think.. that may have been part of it >.< Jul 01 00:31:41 hmm Jul 01 00:32:05 armv7l or armv5tel are the two, iirc Jul 01 00:32:14 right, i was using armv5tel Jul 01 00:32:23 thats what was on the webpage Jul 01 00:32:48 looks like armv7l is building.. wonder if it'll work Jul 01 00:32:56 fingers crossed :P Jul 01 00:33:03 hah, yup Jul 01 00:33:21 the wrong arch all this time? Jul 01 00:33:23 dayum Jul 01 00:33:28 (if I'm the first to get this working I will be freaking -amazed-) Jul 01 00:33:33 lol Jul 01 00:33:36 Looks like you may be Jul 01 00:33:44 not sure what the difference is between arm5tel and arm7l Jul 01 00:33:57 one is arm5 the other is arm7 Jul 01 00:33:59 different archs, 5tel is n8x0 compatible Jul 01 00:34:01 morning/evening all Jul 01 00:34:02 quite a big difference Jul 01 00:34:03 (I think) Jul 01 00:34:50 Would anyone be willing to answer a n00b question or two? Jul 01 00:35:05 Yes. K that's one :D Jul 01 00:35:07 * FatalSaint hides Jul 01 00:35:13 ;) Jul 01 00:35:18 hahah Jul 01 00:35:31 hey FatalSaint :) Jul 01 00:35:53 Sup Jul 01 00:36:09 I guess the biggest question I have is "what is a usiimg file? And how can I flash it to an MMC for use with my boot loader?" Jul 01 00:36:22 ubiimg? Jul 01 00:36:53 ubiimg is meant to be used with flasher Jul 01 00:36:58 Well as far as I can tell in the closed repository for the meego image for the n900 the image they provide is called "meego-codedrop-arm-n900-closed-201003311635.ubiimg" Jul 01 00:37:00 to load to MMC I think you need the raw.. Jul 01 00:37:05 ah Jul 01 00:37:05 yes Jul 01 00:37:07 Thats the old one Jul 01 00:37:10 that makes sense Jul 01 00:37:12 not the new one Jul 01 00:37:23 they haven't provided the raw yet have they? Jul 01 00:37:26 w00t_, Scottish and I are currently trying to build the new one Jul 01 00:37:43 you use the .ks file and mic-image-creator to make the raw image Jul 01 00:37:43 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Creating_ARM_image_using_MeeGo_Image_Creator Jul 01 00:37:48 using the kick start file? Jul 01 00:37:50 yes Jul 01 00:37:52 oh yes Jul 01 00:38:01 sorry, I hit enter before I read your response Jul 01 00:38:25 How is progress? Having any luck? Jul 01 00:38:33 downloading Jul 01 00:39:06 deeeelightful. I take it you'll post something in the forums if you manage to get it to boot? Jul 01 00:39:22 one of us will i'm sure. Screenshots too probably if MeeGo has a way to do that lol Jul 01 00:39:30 haha Jul 01 00:39:57 FatalSaint: do you have an SD card? Jul 01 00:39:57 I wish I could start trying to build it myself, unfortunatly the build process doesn't look like work to my boss :P Jul 01 00:40:01 yes Jul 01 00:40:04 @w00t_ Jul 01 00:40:13 FatalSaint: we have a problem.. Jul 01 00:40:21 whats that? Jul 01 00:40:28 w00t_, to build the image are you having to compile or merely download the binary packageset Jul 01 00:40:43 its downloading rpm's lcuk's.. so I'm thinking binary Jul 01 00:40:47 I'm reliably informed that the kernel doesn't boot ubifs, due to size constraints.. so we need to rerun mic to build with -f raw Jul 01 00:40:53 lcuk: binary RPM downloads Jul 01 00:40:56 ROFL Jul 01 00:41:00 damnit Jul 01 00:41:01 lol Jul 01 00:41:09 ok then... cancelling that Jul 01 00:41:31 ... Jul 01 00:41:34 (thanks to my informer who shall remain nameless so he doesn't get bombed with too much love on 3G) Jul 01 00:41:40 w00t_, thats easier then :) Jul 01 00:41:40 add --save-kernel too i'm thinking Jul 01 00:41:55 meego = trollOS Jul 01 00:42:30 so Jul 01 00:42:43 if thats the case @w00t_... will this EVER be replaceable on the N900? Jul 01 00:42:45 lololol w00t_ your informer needs to drink more :p Jul 01 00:43:19 FatalSaint: dunno honestly, too early to say I'd guess Jul 01 00:43:41 N900 having that standalone rootfs chip was such a glaring design flaw Jul 01 00:43:56 gnnggg.. VM frozen using 1.3GB of RAM Jul 01 00:44:00 WTF is mic doing Jul 01 00:44:07 ask him :p Jul 01 00:44:09 downloading everything to RAM? Jul 01 00:44:11 :p Jul 01 00:44:26 mic only using 0.9% of mine Jul 01 00:44:36 I only assigned 1GB to my VM :| Jul 01 00:44:38 I'm running in Ubuntu 9.10 tho Jul 01 00:44:40 no VM Jul 01 00:44:52 FatalSaint: you got mic working on ubuntu natively? how the -hell- Jul 01 00:45:09 lol ewbangtu Jul 01 00:45:09 git... and found and downloaded a python deb that it needed Jul 01 00:45:16 I wasted a day of my life working on that with no real success (and mic authors, I'd really like that day back!) Jul 01 00:45:29 str="tro"; while $user="woot" { str=str & "olol" } Jul 01 00:46:38 :) Jul 01 00:47:07 w00t_ - I basically just ran the git section of the ARM_Image wiki page .. it errored on dependencies. Each time it errored I apt-get installed the missing dependency, cleared the caches, and retried Jul 01 00:47:09 hmmm why oes photostrip need its own physics Jul 01 00:47:20 the only one I had a problem with was python-elemntree or python-celementree.. Jul 01 00:47:31 latest in the ubuntu repo's was for Karmic.. so I just installed that one Jul 01 00:47:58 hey, it's installing Jul 01 00:48:04 Installing: libgnome-keyring ##################### [ 62/382] Jul 01 00:48:07 woohoo Jul 01 00:48:10 goooo mic Jul 01 00:48:16 if vmware player doesn't start behaving, I will be forced to try do it native Jul 01 00:48:41 333... Jul 01 00:48:54 done installing.. Jul 01 00:48:59 Am I correct in saying it is *impossible* to relocate N900 rootfs to main memory? Jul 01 00:49:14 now it's just sitting here lol Jul 01 00:49:30 yay done Jul 01 00:49:30 ScottishDuck: wait and see. time is really too early to speculate about anythign yet Jul 01 00:49:49 time to install to SD Jul 01 00:50:52 w00t_: time to destroy everything you've worked on and start on a gentoo base to cut the filesizes down :) Jul 01 00:54:08 also w00t_: can I ask why the 2.6.35 kernel? Is it to get the most out of btrfs? Jul 01 00:54:47 dunno, but I'd presume it offers features/patches which are wanted Jul 01 00:55:01 besides, living on the edge is always good fun Jul 01 00:55:12 :) Jul 01 00:55:23 Just 2.6.35 is a regression hell right now Jul 01 00:55:41 dd'ing to SD card Jul 01 00:55:49 they actually stopped updating the kernel for nearly 3 weeks because it was so broken Jul 01 00:57:14 FatalSaint: cool Jul 01 00:57:34 FatalSaint: tell us how it goes Jul 01 00:57:35 * w00t_ wishes he had an sd card and a copy of m-i-c that didn't hate him Jul 01 00:58:07 you can have a digital pony instead w00t_ Jul 01 00:58:46 FatalSaint: how'd you get around ubuntu lacking .. uhhh Jul 01 00:58:52 yeah I don't have a microSD Jul 01 00:58:54 syslinux Jul 01 00:58:59 downgraded it Jul 01 00:59:05 hold.. Jul 01 00:59:44 sudo apt-get install syslinux=3.85 Jul 01 00:59:57 hmm... mkfs.ubifs is taking a long time Jul 01 01:00:13 FatalSaint: that's the problem Jul 01 01:00:18 I don't seem to have syslinux in the repos at all :D Jul 01 01:00:26 ... i did.. Jul 01 01:00:27 oh, hold on Jul 01 01:00:28 I do Jul 01 01:00:49 3.63 though.. Jul 01 01:01:00 which ubuntu? Jul 01 01:01:03 Im running 9.10 Jul 01 01:01:08 10.04 Jul 01 01:01:10 er Jul 01 01:01:13 (WTF?) Jul 01 01:01:13 yeah thats what i have Jul 01 01:01:15 10.04 Jul 01 01:01:38 lucid lynx Jul 01 01:01:52 i have all the multiverse, universe, etc turned on Jul 01 01:02:00 same Jul 01 01:02:03 this makes me a sad panda Jul 01 01:02:12 * w00t_ tries to hunt down a package Jul 01 01:02:17 Error: failed to create image : Failed to make ubifs Jul 01 01:02:19 ._. Jul 01 01:02:32 ScottishDuck: and it's like, so informative! :o Jul 01 01:02:48 max_leb_cnt too low Jul 01 01:02:50 apparently Jul 01 01:03:13 ah Jul 01 01:03:18 you can never have too many lebs! Jul 01 01:03:19 :) Jul 01 01:03:41 OH Jul 01 01:03:44 meego repos! Jul 01 01:03:57 deb http://repo.meego.com/tools/repos/ubuntu/9.10/ / Jul 01 01:04:01 :D Jul 01 01:04:07 doh Jul 01 01:04:11 that er, might have helped ;) Jul 01 01:04:18 http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation#From_Binary_Packages Jul 01 01:04:20 found it there Jul 01 01:04:28 there is 9.10 instructions but dont use them Jul 01 01:04:31 the mic in the repo's is old or something Jul 01 01:04:38 wouldn't run the right options Jul 01 01:04:40 so I built from git Jul 01 01:04:47 yes Jul 01 01:04:50 I had the same problem on fedora Jul 01 01:04:58 except that I couldn't build it on fedora either Jul 01 01:05:04 (don't ask why, I don't remember) Jul 01 01:05:12 so I built a freak zombie hybrid mic from old and new components Jul 01 01:05:28 which, come to think of it, may have been a bad idea given my VM was using a gig of RAM Jul 01 01:05:42 hey.. its booting Jul 01 01:05:46 with such a dark screen I can't read the text Jul 01 01:05:47 rofl Jul 01 01:05:50 er.. Jul 01 01:05:53 someone else had that problem Jul 01 01:05:56 * w00t_ goes logdiving Jul 01 01:06:35 oohh Jul 01 01:06:37 i see Meego.. it's there... Jul 01 01:06:40 but.. Jul 01 01:06:41 black Jul 01 01:06:41 rofl Jul 01 01:07:02 this is entertaining Jul 01 01:07:02 gah.. where did I see this discussion Jul 01 01:07:52 w00t_, dev ml Jul 01 01:08:03 no, I'm fairly sure it was IRC Jul 01 01:08:26 FatalSaint: can you ssh in? I guess probably not Jul 01 01:08:33 i see someone had a black screen with the netbook one.. Jul 01 01:08:36 er... Jul 01 01:08:40 I think it was like /sys/class/brightness/BLAH Jul 01 01:08:41 or something Jul 01 01:08:43 maybe if I can squint long enough to setup wifi.. Jul 01 01:08:49 echo 255 > /sys/class/backlight/acx565akm/brightness Jul 01 01:08:59 yes! Jul 01 01:09:01 that is it Jul 01 01:09:06 lcuk++ Jul 01 01:09:07 FatalSaint: Squint harder! The fate of our dying world depends on it! Jul 01 01:09:11 on the meego dev ml.. Jul 01 01:09:22 lcuk: then my memory sucks \o/ Jul 01 01:09:28 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.meego.devel/2070 Jul 01 01:09:30 wheres the terminal.. Jul 01 01:09:42 actually, no Jul 01 01:09:45 tell me meego doesn't include a terminal.. Jul 01 01:09:46 I hadn't misremembered Jul 01 01:09:48 Will it help if we all squint? Jul 01 01:09:50 #maemo Jul 01 01:09:51 :) Jul 01 01:10:06 SMS, clock, people, chat.. Jul 01 01:10:08 video.. Jul 01 01:10:11 no terminal Jul 01 01:10:12 FatalSaint: ...hahaha Jul 01 01:10:17 ironic given the first release only had one Jul 01 01:10:25 building meego image with btrfs... see if that works Jul 01 01:11:46 found settings.. Jul 01 01:12:01 FatalSaint: is there a "turn the backlight up goddammit" setting? Jul 01 01:12:03 "wifi is not available on this device" Jul 01 01:12:17 you're fl****** kidding me Jul 01 01:12:20 no phone OR wifi Jul 01 01:12:21 >.> Jul 01 01:12:23 that er, seems odd Jul 01 01:12:25 lole Jul 01 01:12:30 they were actually discussing wifi in #meego-arm earlier Jul 01 01:12:33 plug in an ethernet Jul 01 01:12:35 so I wonder what has gone wrong for you Jul 01 01:12:49 #meego-arm? Jul 01 01:12:55 does that make this #meego-intel Jul 01 01:12:56 ? Jul 01 01:12:59 pwnguin: no Jul 01 01:13:16 #meego-arm is the channel specifically where the ARM (and n900) adaptation people are working Jul 01 01:13:27 nothing stops people talking in #meego too of course (as you see above...) Jul 01 01:13:57 this is soo hard to read Jul 01 01:14:12 w00t_: if I were to enable compression in btrfs, is there a chance I could squeeze meego onto rootfs? Jul 01 01:14:18 worth a shot I guess Jul 01 01:14:38 ScottishDuck: honestly, I don't know.. I'm not usually a systems guy, I just poke things hard enough until they start working Jul 01 01:14:44 but sure, give it a go Jul 01 01:14:48 :) Jul 01 01:15:03 I'm trying to remember n900 rootfs size Jul 01 01:15:11 I think it's 256M Jul 01 01:15:33 yes Jul 01 01:15:33 that's the size of the internal chip, yes Jul 01 01:15:52 whoa Jul 01 01:15:53 i think they were using an fs with compression built in Jul 01 01:15:55 they sure this is right? Jul 01 01:16:02 I just went to "Look and Feel" Jul 01 01:16:13 "!!!!Example External Application Jul 01 01:16:14 " Jul 01 01:16:17 "title text 10" Jul 01 01:16:27 !!Declarative Example1 Jul 01 01:16:28 rofl Jul 01 01:16:45 FatalSaint: unfinished I guess :) Jul 01 01:16:51 I'm glad to see things like that Jul 01 01:17:02 yah i expected little stuff like that Jul 01 01:17:08 though.. a terminal would have seemed like a no-brainer.. Jul 01 01:17:31 especially on a 'dev' device for a 'dev' release.. Jul 01 01:17:41 well it's there, you just can't launch it Jul 01 01:17:48 lol Jul 01 01:17:49 make X crash maybe Jul 01 01:18:15 i cant even turn it off lol Jul 01 01:18:27 sure you can, throw it out a window Jul 01 01:18:28 :-P Jul 01 01:18:41 i might try removing the battery first ;) Jul 01 01:18:48 hehe Jul 01 01:18:55 apparently X will crash if you push the lock button twice (sometimes) Jul 01 01:19:13 oh yeah Jul 01 01:19:15 true.. Jul 01 01:20:22 lock is doing nothing, actually Jul 01 01:20:24 If I could just get this image to fit on rootfs, I could work on porting banshee Jul 01 01:21:14 but it's building now, so wait and see Jul 01 01:21:15 if i could just get logged into mine i'd have a running meego on N900 :p Jul 01 01:21:48 also wondering if I could transplant the GSM modem driver from maemo to meego as a quick'n'dirty phone fix Jul 01 01:22:22 ScottishDuck: at a guess, I'd say no Jul 01 01:22:28 So would I Jul 01 01:22:41 iirc meego uses ofono, maemo doesn't, so even if you did, nothing else on the stack would actually be able to make use of it Jul 01 01:22:42 nope, maemo does not use ofono Jul 01 01:23:00 you'd have to make some sort of dummy driver Jul 01 01:23:05 figured Jul 01 01:23:06 that talked to the modem over dbus Jul 01 01:23:17 (you know, for someone who knows nothing about the lower parts of the stack, I sure know how to sound like I do. :P) Jul 01 01:23:17 at least, off the top of my head Jul 01 01:23:34 booted back into maemo for a sec Jul 01 01:23:37 my eyes were hurting lol Jul 01 01:23:50 hrm.. wonder if meego has rc.local Jul 01 01:23:53 Derailing question: I assume meego is hal-less Jul 01 01:23:57 i can throw that command in there.. Jul 01 01:24:03 ScottishDuck: you are correct, sir. Jul 01 01:24:07 goody Jul 01 01:24:29 i've never seen whole communities GLAD to get rid of something Jul 01 01:24:33 quite like HAL Jul 01 01:24:37 maybe devfs Jul 01 01:24:41 ;) Jul 01 01:25:12 KDE, however, are being a little late to the party Jul 01 01:25:17 * TSCHAKeee2 is the lead dev for LinuxMCE, we had our own hell with HAL, just making a bridge to our messaging buss. Jul 01 01:25:24 won't have HAL removed until *at least* 2011 Jul 01 01:25:54 TSCHAKeee2: I dunno, I don't often talk to people who are happy with pulseaudio Jul 01 01:26:51 how far you get w00t? Jul 01 01:26:56 oh.. no SD? Jul 01 01:27:00 I got distracted, and yeah, no SD Jul 01 01:27:03 (>:() Jul 01 01:27:12 ubifs can't build either Jul 01 01:27:12 w00t_: i haven't moved LinuxMCE to pulseaudio yet, so i have no comment.. but it is on my list.. we need it so we can dynamically move audio from bluetooth devices to speakers, etc in the house Jul 01 01:27:16 I have a second n900 I was determined to put meego on so I am quite annoyed Jul 01 01:27:41 well Jul 01 01:27:48 TSCHAKeee2: sure, I understand some of the advantages, it just brings an awful lot of funky problems to the table Jul 01 01:28:07 personally I like it, at least in theory Jul 01 01:28:14 in practice I can't use it because it horribly breaks spotify Jul 01 01:28:16 and I like my music Jul 01 01:28:26 heheh Jul 01 01:28:29 how does meego boot? Why not just dd it to the internal 32GB one.. Jul 01 01:28:47 FatalSaint: mmm.. don't know if kernel can boot off that chip Jul 01 01:28:49 * TSCHAKeee2 is finishing up Pandora Radio support for LinuxMCE (thanks to the wonderful author of PianoBar) Jul 01 01:28:56 damn, need a way for m-i-c to give ubifs more leb_cnt Jul 01 01:29:54 it DOES have an rc.local.. Jul 01 01:32:37 w00t_: should be possible Jul 01 01:34:23 TSCHAKeee2 - oh I see.. making my pyRadio useless huh :p Jul 01 01:36:35 * microlith boots fedora 12 up in virtualbox Jul 01 01:36:41 ok, adding the echo to rc.local worked @ w00t_ Jul 01 01:36:50 FatalSaint: :-) Jul 01 01:36:51 w00t_: ever tried bluetooth audio with alsa? Jul 01 01:36:56 FatalSaint: able to get a vide, btw? Jul 01 01:37:29 pwnguin: no, but also note that I said that I don't mind pulse Jul 01 01:37:31 vide? video? Jul 01 01:37:39 yes Jul 01 01:37:40 it doesn't auto-rotate Jul 01 01:37:44 and i dunno if I can Jul 01 01:37:50 with no wifi, no 3G.. Jul 01 01:37:55 I don't think accelerometer is loaded Jul 01 01:37:56 well, no Jul 01 01:38:01 but it'd be something to show tmo people Jul 01 01:38:13 and it'd probably make you famous given nobody else has gotten it working on n900 yet :P Jul 01 01:38:17 haha.. pulling the keyboard out doesn't make the onscreen kb go away Jul 01 01:38:36 not that youtube is sharing their advertising money Jul 01 01:40:05 i can add a wireless network.. Jul 01 01:40:07 but it doesn't connect.. Jul 01 01:40:17 huh, apparently they started that last year, but it's invite only on undisclosed triggers Jul 01 01:41:23 most of the apps aren't running Jul 01 01:41:40 oh Jul 01 01:41:42 im just impatient Jul 01 01:42:04 whooaaaa fennec is buggy Jul 01 01:42:12 well Jul 01 01:42:14 par for course Jul 01 01:42:29 X crashed Jul 01 01:42:31 hehe Jul 01 01:46:42 FatalSaint: see tmo - your fans demand a video Jul 01 01:46:43 :P Jul 01 01:47:03 lol Jul 01 01:47:12 should I just use a camera?? Always thought those looked tacky Jul 01 01:47:31 yes, by all means Jul 01 01:48:57 made a post.. i really wish I could take actual screenshots on this device.. ugh Jul 01 01:50:31 OK Jul 01 01:50:48 rebuilt image-creator so that it sets max_leb_cnt correctly Jul 01 01:50:52 here goes... Jul 01 01:51:10 looks like I need to feed the wife first.. if nobody has followed in my footsteps i'll try and upload.. something.. tonight Jul 01 01:51:53 FatalSaint, i believe the phrase atm is: Jul 01 01:52:05 this thread is useless without pictures Jul 01 01:52:13 lol Jul 01 01:52:19 your wife can wait! Jul 01 01:52:28 :P Jul 01 01:53:28 yes! Jul 01 01:54:43 I suppose I should write a step-by-step..... Jul 01 01:54:58 FatalSaint: yeah, go for it Jul 01 01:55:02 FatalSaint: put it on the MeeGo wiki Jul 01 01:55:08 i don't use wiki lol Jul 01 01:55:17 oh c'mon Jul 01 01:55:18 FatalSaint, send a mail to ML then Jul 01 01:55:22 yeah :P Jul 01 01:55:29 or just pastebin it and I'll wikify it Jul 01 01:55:34 we need automatic console live feedback over irc Jul 01 01:55:43 so we can tune into your console session Jul 01 01:55:45 to rollitback Jul 01 01:55:46 :) Jul 01 01:55:48 i was going to post it on TMO Jul 01 01:55:53 and get instructions for people Jul 01 01:55:53 you guys can put it wherever after that Jul 01 01:57:01 haha Jul 01 01:57:02 just make sure you put big warning blobs on the top Jul 01 01:57:03 launched App-up Jul 01 01:57:09 otherwise silly people will doubtless try it Jul 01 01:57:10 "This is a placeholder for the MeeGo App-Up Application" Jul 01 01:57:22 silly people are going to try it either way.. but I always do :) Jul 01 01:57:24 (and then proceed to WTF when they can no longer use their phone for anything usable) Jul 01 01:58:13 and bitch, and complain, and spew trollage Jul 01 01:58:14 i do have to say Jul 01 01:58:17 of everything that doesn't work Jul 01 01:58:35 I am most disappointed with the lack of a terminal app. Seriously? What the hell were they thinking there? Jul 01 01:58:48 "mass market usage" probably Jul 01 01:58:51 ummm, compile xterm? ;) Jul 01 01:58:54 but on a dev release? Jul 01 01:59:00 either that or a very stupid oversight Jul 01 01:59:02 for a dev device.. Jul 01 01:59:02 tbh Jul 01 01:59:07 the real reason is probably this: Jul 01 01:59:24 they couldn't figure out how to get the screen brightness up, so figured, "oh well, nobody can use it anyway, why include a terminal" :D Jul 01 01:59:26 I could see removing when it goes mainstream... Jul 01 01:59:32 LMAO Jul 01 01:59:36 Well I showed them O.o Jul 01 01:59:40 ubifs building Jul 01 01:59:40 rc.local ftw Jul 01 01:59:43 here goes! Jul 01 02:00:57 mmm Jul 01 02:01:05 comcast DIAF Jul 01 02:01:25 DIAF? Jul 01 02:01:29 Die in a Fire Jul 01 02:01:40 just waiting for this ubifs build to fail for some other annoying reason :( Jul 01 02:01:56 ah, yeah, I agree Jul 01 02:01:59 I am on Comcrap too Jul 01 02:02:34 and it seems to systematically suck today Jul 01 02:02:42 hmm... ubifs has reserved 4GB of space to build the image Jul 01 02:02:45 not... good Jul 01 02:02:48 systemically rather. Jul 01 02:03:39 >max_leb_cnt too low Jul 01 02:03:43 AGAIN Jul 01 02:06:07 rebuilding image-creator and trying again Jul 01 02:06:10 ._. Jul 01 02:14:50 allo meego'ers Jul 01 02:15:07 congrats on handset ux day one :) Jul 01 02:16:10 ubifs building again... Jul 01 02:19:35 SUCCESSSSSSSSSSS Jul 01 02:19:47 sweet victory Jul 01 02:19:53 woo! Jul 01 02:19:55 what happened? Jul 01 02:20:00 johnx, :P Jul 01 02:20:08 hey Termana Jul 01 02:20:16 actually got a n900 rootfs image to build Jul 01 02:20:28 ScottishDuck: nice one! Jul 01 02:20:35 alright. want me to flash it and see if it sets my n900 on fire? Jul 01 02:20:36 Howdy, johnx Jul 01 02:20:45 yo GAN900 :D Jul 01 02:20:54 >516.4MB Jul 01 02:20:55 wow Jul 01 02:20:59 just... wow Jul 01 02:21:04 haha Jul 01 02:21:11 that's twice as big as the n900 can take ._. Jul 01 02:21:15 all that work Jul 01 02:21:17 ._. Jul 01 02:21:17 ScottishDuck: don't suppose you want to upload the image? Jul 01 02:21:21 sure Jul 01 02:21:25 but it's useless Jul 01 02:21:30 do't Jul 01 02:21:34 *don't Jul 01 02:21:44 closed source software on image -> not redistributable Jul 01 02:21:48 ah Jul 01 02:21:50 feel free to write instructions on how you did it Jul 01 02:21:51 oh yeah :( Jul 01 02:21:51 ofc Jul 01 02:21:56 still Jul 01 02:22:00 516MB Jul 01 02:22:05 and now stop distracting me so I can go to bed, bah Jul 01 02:22:06 thats a lot of fat to trim Jul 01 02:22:16 :P Jul 01 02:22:25 eh, boot from sd is a better way to do dev&testing anyways Jul 01 02:22:33 quick! While he is asleep, upload it! Jul 01 02:22:34 :P Jul 01 02:22:37 *cough* Upload it some where suspicious and give people the link privately *cough* Jul 01 02:22:47 HOWS THE WEATHER OUT Jul 01 02:22:49 :P Jul 01 02:22:52 >_> Jul 01 02:22:53 <_< Jul 01 02:22:56 seamless.... Jul 01 02:22:57 x_x Jul 01 02:23:04 protip: the ubiimg can't be installed on the n900 Jul 01 02:23:17 rootfs = 256MB - image = 516MB Jul 01 02:23:24 run from MMC? Jul 01 02:23:40 would need to build a raw image Jul 01 02:23:47 Captain Obvious Jul 01 02:23:50 Hes are hero Jul 01 02:23:54 our* Jul 01 02:24:07 Gonna take obviousness above 0 Jul 01 02:25:09 I've got a btrfs based ubiimg so far Jul 01 02:25:23 will build a ext3, ext4 and raw Jul 01 02:25:41 but for now, sleep Jul 01 02:26:05 night Jul 01 02:27:13 I'll try and set a build going so I have a nice lineup of btrfs, ext4, ext3 ubiimg/raw ready to upload tomorrow Jul 01 02:28:41 for private use Jul 01 02:28:43 obviously Jul 01 02:29:29 :) Jul 01 02:29:54 I'll have to have a crack at an ext4 build tonight Jul 01 02:41:26 in the webpage, meego handset support N900 and moorestown Jul 01 02:41:27 but in repo.meego.com, there are netboot img Jul 01 02:59:55 anyone actually around? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 01 02:59:57 2010