**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 01 02:59:57 2010 Jul 01 03:00:12 possibly Jul 01 03:00:25 I guess it depends on my question! Jul 01 03:01:21 quite possibly! Jul 01 03:02:15 how can I test dailer in netbook image? Jul 01 03:04:25 I'm new to git, open source dev. etc.. But i'm rather experienced in c++, mfc etc.. I downloaded the nokia sdk and tried to compile some repo's on git but i have not been able to compile anything without receiving an error. Jul 01 03:04:52 am i doing something wrong or are the repo's 'incomplete' Jul 01 03:07:43 sevla: what do you mean the nokia sdk? and how do you compile it? Jul 01 03:08:27 sorry Jul 01 03:08:37 the Nokia QT SDK for windows. Jul 01 03:09:24 found here http://www.forum.nokia.com/Develop/Qt/Tools/ Jul 01 03:11:33 sevla: firstly, #qt is a channel dedicated to helping people who have Qt related problems. secondly, without seeing a log or other output about the errors you're seeing, it's difficult to tell what might be the problem. Jul 01 03:13:13 sevla: I think you may try the Qt Creator on Windows to develop QT Applications, but this is a wrong channel to discuss it. Jul 01 03:13:53 Ok. ty Jul 01 03:13:58 what is the main purpose of this channel? Jul 01 03:15:32 currently, I believe this channel is used mainly by people who want to develop MeeGo, rather than develop apps _for_ MeeGo (although I assume that's a valid use for the channel, if it's a MeeGo-specific question you have) Jul 01 03:15:44 but i'm certainly no expert. Jul 01 03:16:33 Right. Jul 01 03:17:21 I'm also interested in helping to developing Meego (if that's even possible). Where should one start to get familiar with the process. Jul 01 03:18:28 sevla, probably the first thing would be to subscribe to the meego-dev mailing list, there's also a bunch of wiki's set up about porting to different platforms and whatnot. I guess it depends on exactly what you're interested in helping out with :-) Jul 01 03:18:52 mailing lists: http://meego.com/community/mailing-lists Jul 01 03:20:20 wiki: http://wiki.meego.com/Contributing_to_MeeGo Jul 01 03:20:21 thnks Jul 01 03:20:40 i'm on the dev mailing list so i'll look more into that.. Jul 01 03:20:45 thanks for the scond link Jul 01 03:20:53 no problem :-) Jul 01 03:58:21 is there a list of valid --arch parameters that can be fed to the image builder? Jul 01 03:59:23 * microlith spies stuff at moblin.org Jul 01 04:01:15 w00t_ Jul 01 04:01:19 http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=4812#post4812 Jul 01 04:01:26 Wiki-fy if you want ;) Jul 01 04:01:59 haha you got the builder to run on ubuntu, nice Jul 01 04:02:55 Yeah.. i like keeping things native as possible.. Jul 01 04:04:15 and the arch parameter I was looking for :D Jul 01 04:04:26 :D Jul 01 04:04:40 * microlith kicks off the image builder Jul 01 04:05:41 hmm Jul 01 04:05:49 looks like I need to go buy an SD card tomorrow Jul 01 04:05:50 heh Jul 01 04:06:02 Yeah you can't build an ubifs Jul 01 04:06:05 it won't boot Jul 01 04:06:14 makes me a little worried about the future of MeeGo on the N900 actually Jul 01 04:06:18 right, comes out too huge Jul 01 04:07:00 I guess it'll permanently be a flash-to-SD solution. Although, would be nice to build a kernel that boots to the internal 32GB instead of the External.. and using the flasher to permanently flash that kernel Jul 01 04:07:12 that would somewhat work.. just be running on the slower SD Jul 01 04:07:17 instead of internal flash Jul 01 04:07:31 iirc, there was work being done in the mtd tree that would allow you to transparently merge devices Jul 01 04:08:58 not sure if that'd do any good here Jul 01 04:09:05 * FatalSaint shrugs Jul 01 04:09:12 thats going to be Stskeeps department Jul 01 04:09:14 I know AXFS can do it, but it's read-only and not in the kernel Jul 01 04:11:09 Despite trying my best to keep my expectations really low.. I still find myself disappointed. All the stuff that works on the Intel Beta Not-yet-released non-existent platform works fine.. Jul 01 04:11:12 nearly nothing works on the N900 Jul 01 04:11:16 that's .. crap. IMHO. Jul 01 04:11:49 I'll give it a while Jul 01 04:12:15 I'd rather be "still coming up" with this than "you'll get it when we drop it" with Android Jul 01 04:13:37 Dialer doesn't launch, Lock doesn't launch, rotate doesn't work, No wireless.. Jul 01 04:13:54 The N900 really got the short end of the stick :( Jul 01 04:15:39 wow Jul 01 04:15:44 that was faster than I thought it would be Jul 01 04:15:57 although I shouldn't be surprised, this isn't Gentoo Jul 01 04:16:41 lol Jul 01 04:16:47 it downloads pre-compiled rpm binaries Jul 01 04:17:58 haha Jul 01 04:18:03 can only minimize two apps at a time Jul 01 04:18:14 wait, does it start killing others, or just not opening them? Jul 01 04:18:39 hrm Jul 01 04:18:47 maybe it's just bugged.. i can't minimize it at all anymore Jul 01 04:18:52 oh I htink that's a known bug.. Jul 01 04:18:59 ah Jul 01 04:20:40 wow.. awesome Jul 01 04:21:00 I launched Pictures, minimized, Settings, Minimized, Fennec... crash Jul 01 04:37:42 FatalSaint, it seems like nokia involvement is minimum, does'n it? at least on the 'technical' side Jul 01 04:37:54 Yes Jul 01 04:38:01 This very much has the impression of an Intel product Jul 01 04:38:51 Intel's platform is most complete, the UI has obvious Moblin/MeeGo netbook roots, and the N900 is... well.. isn't. Jul 01 05:28:53 FatalSaint: you're hitting bug#2600 with the home button Jul 01 05:29:37 I kinda figured these were part of the known issues.. thanks Mike Jul 01 05:31:02 The two apps at a time thing is odd. There isn't a limit on the number of apps you can run at once. The switcher gets a little wonky with more than two at a time, though. There are little dots that should indicate that you can keep panning to see more live-previews Jul 01 05:31:22 Ok.. I saw the little dots but lost the app Jul 01 05:31:35 one of them crashed Jul 01 05:31:43 the live preview sometimes has issues getting updated Jul 01 05:32:25 if you install abrt, you should be able to gather backtraces from the apps that are crashing. Jul 01 05:32:46 ... Jul 01 05:32:50 hrm Jul 01 05:32:57 Maybe I can do that through a chroot. Jul 01 05:33:08 No way to do it when booted into MeeGo that I can tell tho Jul 01 05:33:37 I install openssh-server, abrt, and screen in the chroot Jul 01 05:33:47 then I make a .desktop file that runs screen in detached mode Jul 01 05:33:48 openssh wouldn't do me any good Jul 01 05:33:50 no internet Jul 01 05:33:56 :( Jul 01 05:34:02 won't connect to my wireless Jul 01 05:34:09 I figured wireless didn't work Jul 01 05:34:16 I've heard that N900's are having wireless issues Jul 01 05:34:41 the phone app doesn't launch at all.. is that expected too? Jul 01 05:34:58 I thought it was supposed to open a dialer to play with Jul 01 05:35:24 it is Jul 01 05:35:37 phone-sim may need to be running Jul 01 05:35:58 Hrm.. need abrt then to see why thats crashing. Why is there no terminal? I tried installing terminal in a chroot and it didn't work Jul 01 05:36:04 also, the wifi bug is 3451 Jul 01 05:36:36 xterm is there Jul 01 05:36:58 there ought to be a .dkestop for it in /usr/share/fixup/applications (or similar) Jul 01 05:37:09 if you copy it to /usr/share/applications, you will have xterm Jul 01 05:37:10 its not in the app list.. Jul 01 05:37:11 ah Jul 01 05:37:13 ok Jul 01 05:37:30 but! You may not be able to give it window focus or see it work at all Jul 01 05:37:35 rofl Jul 01 05:38:04 the xfce terminal is probably a better bet. The gtk-im bridge works IIRC. Jul 01 05:38:10 Thunar? Jul 01 05:38:11 er Jul 01 05:38:13 thats the file manager Jul 01 05:39:21 I can't remember Jul 01 05:39:33 I use an aava, and it has (mostly) working wifi Jul 01 05:39:53 yeah.. portrait mode works on that too :p Jul 01 05:39:54 if USB works, you may be able to plug in a usb-ethernet device Jul 01 05:40:27 when you say portrait doesn't work, do you mean rotating the device to get it to change orientation? Jul 01 05:40:42 yes.. I hit every combination of keys I could think too.. Jul 01 05:40:47 never got the device to go portrait Jul 01 05:40:55 cntrl-shift r Jul 01 05:41:06 ... I tried that... Jul 01 05:41:10 suppose I can try again later Jul 01 05:41:27 all meego-touch apps should respond to cntrl-shift r Jul 01 05:41:36 what about the desktop tho Jul 01 05:41:41 I think I was on the home screen Jul 01 05:41:54 it's a meego-touch based app as well Jul 01 05:42:39 cntrl-shift f should give you a display of the fps Jul 01 05:43:14 Does Fennec get all scratchy on the Aava too? Jul 01 05:43:29 I held Ctrl+Shift and hit every letter lol Jul 01 05:43:58 fennec has issues... Jul 01 05:44:07 heh Jul 01 05:52:11 FatalSaint: you trying this on N900 or Aava? Jul 01 05:53:15 ok, backlog seems to answer my Q Jul 01 05:53:56 in which case, er, I've no idea if phonesim and ofono are being configured together in N900 image Jul 01 05:55:09 on Aava images, /etc/ofono/modem.conf is configured to uncomment the phonesim modem simulator Jul 01 05:55:47 if that's not done, dialer currently will not launch... kinda want's a modem that ofono says in powered Jul 01 05:55:52 Ah Jul 01 05:55:54 it's a bug Jul 01 05:56:32 So is the N900 even really looked at? Jul 01 05:56:36 or is it all Aava? Jul 01 05:56:51 what is aava? Jul 01 05:57:22 www.aavamobile.com Jul 01 05:57:39 BMC#1977 Jul 01 05:58:13 FatalSaint: I know others do... but I don't have an N900 and if I can't test, I can't fix Jul 01 05:58:35 as the author... that becomes, um, somewhat important ;) Jul 01 05:59:12 sabotage: do you have aava? Jul 01 05:59:17 Which I understand. Would have thought there would have been more people helping with it.. as it was supposed to be the ARM dev platform.. Jul 01 05:59:43 I'm sure my dialer though is way less mature than what is already availble (open or not idk) for Maemo and likely MeeGo from Nokia Jul 01 05:59:50 Kaadlajk: yes Jul 01 06:00:16 sabotage: do you know what is the difference between EV2 and DV1 :P I seem to have DV1 Jul 01 06:00:25 FatalSaint: still working on the multi-platform testing/dev... Jul 01 06:00:43 * sabotage asked for N* devs, none received yet Jul 01 06:01:02 from Nokia? or general? Jul 01 06:01:10 Kaadlajk: thanks Jul 01 06:01:10 Kaadlajk: iirc, there was a touch screen change between them Jul 01 06:01:40 from Intel/Nokia... Jul 01 06:02:04 sabotage: ok, one more question Jul 01 06:02:06 Hrm. Disappointing. Jul 01 06:02:22 sabotage: is the battery status supposed to work? Jul 01 06:02:22 remember, I work for Intel, and we only recently got all the ARM builds working in OBS Jul 01 06:02:33 sabotage: i am unsure if my device is charging Jul 01 06:02:46 but ATM, Nokia owns generating the N900 builds/images Jul 01 06:03:03 yeah.. cuz of the closed-source stuff? Jul 01 06:03:10 Kaadlajk: iirc, battery data comming from driver/kernel is bogus Jul 01 06:03:13 if it turns off in a few hours and doesn't come back, it wasn't charging :-) Jul 01 06:03:30 when tested on various netbooks, it did, but on Aava, not yet Jul 01 06:03:54 FatalSaint: not folloing re: closed-source comment? Jul 01 06:04:06 so it doesn't charge on aava? Jul 01 06:04:15 * sabotage points to thiago_home's comment and confirms ;) Jul 01 06:04:20 from experience Jul 01 06:04:21 sabotage: Nokia owns building the N900 images Jul 01 06:04:40 to be on the safe side, keep it on the USB cable :-) Jul 01 06:04:51 used to be if you let it get that far, required re-soldiering a FW chip to get it to charge again o_O Jul 01 06:05:12 FatalSaint: yes, AFAIK, which is not all that much still Jul 01 06:05:20 yup, at least on some Nokia devices that's what happened Jul 01 06:05:34 but with the Nokia devices, you can just find another device that has the same battery type and let it charge Jul 01 06:05:42 can't do that with the aava... Jul 01 06:05:55 remember, two big Co's trying to do OSS *and* work together to do so is no small feat Jul 01 06:06:07 esp since we both have hoards of laywers ;) Jul 01 06:06:18 though... that battery looks very much like the one on the N97 mini and N8 Jul 01 06:06:19 sabotage: Any ideas when a working ofono setup is planned to arrive? Jul 01 06:06:23 lawyers <3 Jul 01 06:06:24 3.7V Jul 01 06:06:48 sabotage: Understood about the complexities of businesses working together. Jul 01 06:06:54 FatalSaint: for what device? Jul 01 06:07:28 hearing nothing... Jul 01 06:07:35 sabotage: Well, personally I'm interested in the N900 as the Aava doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned :p (no idea how to get one or if it's even possible)... but a working stack in either device is fine Jul 01 06:07:39 ofono is working now with several devices Jul 01 06:08:00 but the specific one in the Aava is being ported still Jul 01 06:08:09 it's an STE modem iirc Jul 01 06:08:20 lawyers are only burden for everyone until there's disagreement :P then they look commas and dots and decide which party blew it up Jul 01 06:08:23 kind of insane Jul 01 06:09:04 I'm not actually sure what the modem in N900 is, but I know Nokia folks are very active contributors in ofono Jul 01 06:09:34 and I believe they wrote most/all of the isi implimentations Jul 01 06:09:44 Nokia modems are completely different than anything else Jul 01 06:09:56 thiago_home: yeah battery is similar to Nokia batteries, 1500mAh 3.7V Jul 01 06:10:15 thiago_home, not completely true, but partly Jul 01 06:10:17 Kaadlajk: the question is what would happen if I put it inside an N97 Jul 01 06:10:20 which is the inspiration behind ofono actually (widely varying modems) Jul 01 06:10:33 Kaadlajk: would it charge? would it blow up? Jul 01 06:10:53 thiago_home, if it has same voltage and it fits, it doesn't matter Jul 01 06:11:01 thiago_home: the battery leads are in different order atleast :P Jul 01 06:11:11 ok, "blow up" it is :-) Jul 01 06:11:22 ok, I gotta skip folks. Only popped in to see if there were questions I could help with Jul 01 06:11:23 thiago_home, you can even put physically mismatching batteries in if the connectors just match Jul 01 06:11:34 one ought to be careful with those batteries. They make fire really well Jul 01 06:11:57 but alas, the powers that be decided that Day One would be the perfect time to schedule office building moves... Jul 01 06:12:10 ty Sabotage Jul 01 06:12:11 so gotta get up early to set up my systems again Jul 01 06:12:16 np FatalSaint Jul 01 06:12:31 * mikeleib ought to do same.. good idea Jul 01 06:12:35 I'm always on, just not always watching, so ping me if needed Jul 01 06:12:39 besides "don't do I", what do we do if we discharge the battery? Jul 01 06:12:43 "don't do it" Jul 01 06:13:12 i got some directions with copper tape and monsoon unit :) Jul 01 06:13:16 thiago_home, you could use external charger as with any other battery Jul 01 06:13:26 also newer firmware version should charge the battery Jul 01 06:13:48 are we talking aava or n900? Jul 01 06:13:51 aava Jul 01 06:13:55 atleast i am Jul 01 06:14:01 newer firmware does charge the battery Jul 01 06:14:43 I saw people that had stand alone battery chargers for such occasions Jul 01 06:14:57 so just put the battery in and don't boot the device? Jul 01 06:15:02 I never ran into the problem. It's been a long time since the fw didn't charge the battery. I even have an ev2 Jul 01 06:15:23 you need to boot the device to get the firmware to load to charge the battery. ;P Jul 01 06:15:25 I don't know what I have. I'll be in the office in a couple of hours... Jul 01 06:15:45 pop the battery out and look at the back. it says Jul 01 06:16:05 I know I have DV1 version Jul 01 06:16:29 any ideas how i could know if the battery is charging? Jul 01 06:16:32 will do when I'm there Jul 01 06:17:09 other than letting the battery run out Jul 01 06:18:08 the battery gets reasonably warm when charging Jul 01 06:18:32 whole device gets reasonably warm Jul 01 06:19:17 often that warmth is from the CPU, but the battery gets noticeably warm when charging Jul 01 06:20:30 IIRC, there's actually some files in /sys/ that say something or another about it Jul 01 06:22:08 zowy.. it's morning in .fi Jul 01 06:23:00 yup. they live in our future Jul 01 06:26:22 hmm it might actually be charging Jul 01 06:26:49 if flames come out, it's not ;-P Jul 01 06:31:37 but it might have been :D Jul 01 06:33:12 mikeleib: should the SSH work on default Jul 01 06:33:21 mikeleib: atleast it tries to connect but i dont know the password Jul 01 06:36:21 * mikeleib wakes up Jul 01 06:36:29 user meego, password meego Jul 01 06:36:36 root passwd also meego Jul 01 06:36:58 the images we make don't have the ssh server installed Jul 01 06:37:34 I highly recommend installing ssh, abrt, and screen Jul 01 06:37:44 hmm strange it still tries to connect to it :P Jul 01 06:37:59 i am using the image from repos Jul 01 06:38:16 does it time out? Jul 01 06:38:19 how do you install something without ssh? :-) Jul 01 06:38:50 mikeleib: no, it says permission denied after entering the password Jul 01 06:39:19 Kaadlajk: are you sure you are sshing to the aava? Jul 01 06:39:27 mikeleib: tbh no :) Jul 01 06:39:43 thiago_home: I mount the image loopback, and mic-chroot into the image Jul 01 06:39:46 then I install things Jul 01 06:39:51 then I exit and umount Jul 01 06:40:51 oops. I forgot. I also make a screen.desktop Jul 01 06:40:51 and then flash it? Jul 01 06:41:24 jah Jul 01 06:41:36 I make the screen.desktop thusly: http://pastebin.com/Q5LhLBue Jul 01 06:42:22 after I've dd'd the image, I boot it. I connect to wifi. I click on teh screen icon. Then I ssh in. I screen -dr Jul 01 06:42:51 Then, I can run from commandline and inherit dbus creds and x creds and the like Jul 01 06:43:13 lets me strace things and gdb them, etc Jul 01 07:07:50 Morning, all Jul 01 07:08:05 Night Jul 01 07:08:20 morning Jul 01 07:08:23 morning Jul 01 07:10:07 * mikeleib gets teh sleeps Jul 01 07:12:07 morn1ng Jul 01 07:14:01 morning Jul 01 07:16:32 anyone doing anything interesting? Jul 01 07:17:30 I'm just reading http://meego.com/community, especially the Section with IRC an "Real-time Interaction" ;) Jul 01 07:18:24 whiteazboy, building ff4.0b1 for linux/ppc and trying to figure out what's wrong with my pandora and why the wifi won't come up Jul 01 07:18:36 IRC, best Finnish invention since ... Jul 01 07:19:06 how come i never get the confirmation email when i register on meego.com? i can't get a username... (i've checked my junkmail) Jul 01 07:19:27 cool johnx Jul 01 07:19:41 what distro? Jul 01 07:20:32 Hehe. Googling for "qt for meego" makes google suggest "qt for maemo" :) Jul 01 07:20:46 whiteazboy, about the pandora or ff4 for ppc? Jul 01 07:22:02 johnx: nm, i got confused, i don't know what ff4.0b1 is, and i thought you said you are trying to get pandora working on your linux, so i asked what distro Jul 01 07:22:10 (it's early, need coffe :P) Jul 01 07:24:25 ah Jul 01 07:24:32 except I have an openpandora :) Jul 01 07:24:51 and ff4.0b1 is firefox 4beta1 which I'm compiling for my powerbook running linux Jul 01 07:25:10 which linux?? yellow dog linux johnx?? Jul 01 07:25:17 debian squeeze Jul 01 07:25:41 :) Jul 01 07:25:41 ahh ok Jul 01 07:25:43 compiled up my own kernel and all is working well, including fans and suspend/resume Jul 01 07:25:49 What is the easiest/recommended way to test and debug MeeGo applications? Jul 01 07:25:52 great Jul 01 07:25:59 johnx: i'm so much less technical than you haha Jul 01 07:26:06 i just figured out how to use irc :P Jul 01 07:26:14 i use linux mint Jul 01 07:26:27 * johnx is typing at you from ubuntu Jul 01 07:26:31 if i tried to compile my own kernel it would not be pretty Jul 01 07:26:42 i was build engineer for yellow dog linux Jul 01 07:26:49 compiled kernel many times Jul 01 07:27:18 amjad, ah cool. I bet YDL contributed a lot of the kernel tweaks that make my powerbook work so well :) Jul 01 07:27:23 so thanks :D Jul 01 07:27:31 you are welcome Jul 01 07:28:21 myyh Jul 01 07:28:23 moin Jul 01 07:28:33 um Jul 01 07:28:53 hey Myrtti :D Jul 01 07:29:05 johnx: you realize that firefox 4 beta 1 hasn't been released, right? Jul 01 07:29:26 sadly though johnx, yellow dog linux is dead for ppc Jul 01 07:29:39 fine. firefox 4.0 proposed beta 1 nightly Jul 01 07:41:29 is mcberardi / other libseaside developers in this channel? Jul 01 08:14:49 morning Jul 01 09:24:31 humm... the announcement says Aava Mobile's DV1 and EV2 are supported Jul 01 09:24:34 I have a DV2 Jul 01 09:25:16 would DV1 run on DV2? Jul 01 09:25:35 like a CD would run in a DVD drive, that kinda backward compatibility? Jul 01 09:28:57 I wonder if I can flash the device with the image Jul 01 09:29:09 I only have one micro SD card Jul 01 09:32:50 CosmoHill: I've been testing with a dv2 Jul 01 09:42:12 let me see if Marketing has some spare microSDs Jul 01 10:00:24 woooo yeah meego handset yeah yeah !!! Jul 01 10:25:51 does anyone know if it's possible to use the Aavas without a microSD? Jul 01 10:27:26 atleast the specification page doesnt talk anything about internal memory Jul 01 10:33:04 Disk /dev/nda: 7696 MB, 7696547840 bytes Jul 01 10:33:13 I should be able to put it there... Jul 01 10:34:38 ok so there is internal memory :) Jul 01 10:35:24 I could upload the image via the USB serial... Jul 01 10:44:23 I can transfer the image via the one microSD I have Jul 01 10:50:58 Stskeeps: (and the rest of the ARM/N900 team) - a question about how you actually do development: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-July/003562.html Jul 01 10:52:03 Jaffa: since they're mostly doing h/w adaptation though.. that could well be what they do :-P Jul 01 10:52:15 Jaffa: also, Stskeeps is still gone for a few days more Jul 01 10:52:36 w00t_: True Jul 01 10:53:15 * Jaffa wonders if anyone here works on the Handset UX itself then, and could answer it ;-) Jul 01 10:57:08 there is #meego-arm where you can find n900 devs Jul 01 10:57:14 channel that is Jul 01 10:59:18 should there be a meegotouch channel? i just created one. Jul 01 11:42:22 what filesystem type does the aava "sda" image have? Jul 01 11:43:54 bfs or something doesn''t it? Jul 01 11:44:28 btrfs prolly Jul 01 11:44:35 thats the one Jul 01 11:45:06 * thiago is trying to mount it but can't Jul 01 11:45:10 any hints to mount the .bin image? Jul 01 11:46:31 thiago: try my friends lomount.sh script, http://www.pixelbeat.org/scripts/lomount.sh Jul 01 11:47:11 slaine: nice Jul 01 11:47:23 he's got lots of handy stuff up there Jul 01 11:48:07 ha! it worked: Jul 01 11:48:11 mount -o loop,offset=16384 ./sda /mnt/junk Jul 01 11:48:16 cool Jul 01 11:48:39 I'm inside Jul 01 11:49:23 he jist told me that most of those scripts are up on github now Jul 01 11:51:49 installing openssh-server Jul 01 11:52:19 I wonder if this is a coincidence or not, yesterday during the meeting, I brought up a question regarding cooperation with finnish mobile operators. Today we got contacted :)) Jul 01 12:00:05 * thiago starts flashing with dd Jul 01 12:07:18 Is there a way to install meego daily snapshots on the SD card, and not have to flash the kernel? Jul 01 12:07:54 Don't really want to have to keep flashing the kernel to boot between the two .. Jul 01 12:08:32 alterego try to use bootmenu-n900 as they use for nitdroid and if it works - tell us =)) Jul 01 12:08:44 ZogG: yeah, was contemplating that :) Jul 01 12:08:48 Okay, I'll give it a go. Jul 01 12:11:33 * alterego wonders how long it'll take to generate this image .. Jul 01 12:11:54 otoh, I can see a list of all the packages drifting upwards which might be slightly enlightening Jul 01 12:24:11 ZogG: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/Dual_Boot#Dual_Boot_Fremantle_and_MeeGo_on_N900 Jul 01 12:25:42 alterego the wierd thing is HERE Jul 01 12:25:46 it's not really an url Jul 01 12:26:23 the wiki is not finished Jul 01 12:26:24 Well, that's for kexec I think .. Jul 01 13:02:44 I wish mic game more in the way of visual feedback whilst downloading packages. Jul 01 13:03:10 It odesn't even say the one it's currently downloading, just posts a note when it's downloaded .. Jul 01 13:04:49 <_Pete_> howdy, is this good place to ask meego on aava ? Jul 01 13:05:17 As good as any, i guess :) Jul 01 13:05:25 <_Pete_> great! Jul 01 13:05:40 Heh Jul 01 13:05:42 <_Pete_> followed this http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation Jul 01 13:05:46 alterego: patch it to let you play a game of snake while it creates an image - the length of the snake could double as a progress bar Jul 01 13:05:50 :) Jul 01 13:06:01 w00t_: hahah, I love that idea :D Jul 01 13:06:04 <_Pete_> but when try to boot Aava with that nothing happens Jul 01 13:06:12 <_Pete_> moblin altough works on the same device Jul 01 13:06:25 w00t_: I know what it's doing though, it's downloading that stupid "media-samples" package. Jul 01 13:07:05 * X-Fade sees a lot of mentions of aava here. Wants one too :) Jul 01 13:07:50 I thought it was a dev prototype .. Why do so many (sorry _Pete_) "newbs" have them? :D Jul 01 13:08:22 w00t_: the freakin' "sample-media" package is 170M ... Jul 01 13:08:34 X-Fade: you and me both Jul 01 13:08:43 shame they aren't commercially available Jul 01 13:08:43 Oh, did I mention I'm doing this over 3G connection through my N900 ... :D Jul 01 13:09:48 <_Pete_> btw just tried build image for vmware Jul 01 13:09:54 <_Pete_> that is not working either Jul 01 13:11:47 The AAva is Atom? :/ Jul 01 13:12:02 <_Pete_> yes Jul 01 13:12:11 Oh, Moorestown .. Jul 01 13:17:31 w00t_, sounds like what zx spectrum got eventually - playable game during long loading! Jul 01 13:29:48 Wooo, finished downloading all the packages :D Jul 01 13:29:58 "Installin'" Jul 01 13:30:04 I think I briked one of the Aavas Jul 01 13:30:10 :P Jul 01 13:30:34 i created image with SSH-server earlier today, took over 4hours to download the packages Jul 01 13:30:42 Heh Jul 01 13:30:48 guess the repos are in US Jul 01 13:30:57 That's a long time Jul 01 13:31:07 Kaadlajk: the openssh packages? Jul 01 13:31:11 yep Jul 01 13:31:23 Took me 45 minutes, Jul 01 13:31:24 ouch Jul 01 13:31:35 And I'm in the UK, using my mobile as a modem :P Jul 01 13:31:44 Still I get a decent 2Mb/s connection from it. Jul 01 13:31:53 * thiago is in the office and zypper didn't do anything Jul 01 13:31:55 no idea why it was so slow, guess the corporate network was acting up Jul 01 13:32:12 atleast now the packages are cached :) Jul 01 13:32:38 Yeah, I just did this so I could cache the packages, have a little look at the preview and generally poke around a bit Jul 01 13:32:48 and now the other aava won't boot Jul 01 13:32:59 it would help if there were tools for this Jul 01 13:33:08 thiago: maybe you've been subject to an EM pulse that only targets Aava's :P Jul 01 13:33:55 I got the Aava device + charger last week and only advice was note saying that current firmware MIGHT not charge the battery Jul 01 13:34:02 "thanks" Jul 01 13:34:13 Heh Jul 01 13:34:22 Kaadlajk: who do you work for? Jul 01 13:34:37 <_Pete_> Kaadlajk: is there any way to update firmware? Jul 01 13:34:51 <_Pete_> just started to "play" with Aava today and didnt get it boot meego Jul 01 13:35:14 Intel-based handsets Jul 01 13:35:19 What a lark Jul 01 13:35:19 thiago: re tools: yeah, use a microscope with a light. It reminds me of a story that an old Commodore engineer told me, chip designers had gotten early versions of a video chip, there was a bad flaw in the chip preventing some of the address pins from working, but they needed to test to make sure the registers worked to push it into NTSC mode, so they used a microsoft, with a light, to push electrons on the chip to flip the registe Jul 01 13:35:21 rs. Jul 01 13:35:23 ;) Jul 01 13:35:35 _Pete_: I am joonas btw, we talked earlier :P Jul 01 13:35:58 <_Pete_> right :) Jul 01 13:36:24 So, if the MeeGo image is currently 2G, does that mean Nokia are going to finally have to create a bigger than 256MB flash for rootfs :) Jul 01 13:36:43 alterego: the N900 has 256MB+2G Jul 01 13:36:55 it's just that the 256MB NAND flash is faster Jul 01 13:38:24 _Pete_: just managed to boot image with ssh before i left the office Jul 01 13:38:46 <_Pete_> Kaadlajk: http://quadcore.homeunix.net/~petria/tmp/20100701_001.jpg Jul 01 13:38:57 <_Pete_> only get this with all meego images :/ Jul 01 13:39:39 seems like the kboot and FW versions are the same atleast Jul 01 13:39:44 i never had any problems Jul 01 13:52:40 * timeless tries to remember how to use meego from a terminal Jul 01 13:52:59 x11 isn't working, and it keeps trying to send me from the primary vt to something which is probably where x11 would be Jul 01 13:53:17 what's the meego equiv of root/rootme? :( Jul 01 13:53:25 meego/meego works nicely, but it isn't in sudoers Jul 01 13:53:44 ah root/meego :) Jul 01 13:55:58 hrm, does meego have a text mode installer? Jul 01 13:56:55 not that I know of at least Jul 01 13:58:08 * timeless wonders how to start the meego x11 session Jul 01 13:58:49 sacrifice chickens, and pray? (I think I just started X and it all magically worked, but I last experimented a long while ago) Jul 01 14:17:55 * timeless grumbles Jul 01 14:18:19 i told the meego installer that i wanted English US, why is the first time ui i see using a 24hr clock? Jul 01 14:21:19 timeless: people lack your attention to detail, of course Jul 01 14:27:41 http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/meego/firstrun/date%20time.png Jul 01 14:28:35 so... Jul 01 14:29:08 i'm now staring at a black screen of despair Jul 01 14:31:11 backlight? Jul 01 14:31:15 the story of my life Jul 01 14:32:46 plopp Jul 01 14:35:00 Yeah, great ... http://pastie.org/1026657 Jul 01 14:36:43 goddammit, my terminal keeps opening the links in firefox Jul 01 14:38:39 so um Jul 01 14:38:46 what do i do w/ my black screen of despair? Jul 01 14:39:09 throw things at it? Jul 01 14:39:17 * timeless tried that Jul 01 14:39:22 * Myrtti gives timeless a cup of tea and a waffle Jul 01 14:39:24 * timeless tries sending it ctrl-alt-del Jul 01 14:39:59 magic sysrq might help if you can't do anything else Jul 01 14:40:30 * timeless wonders how to do that w/ a laptop keyboard Jul 01 14:40:43 alt printscr in my Dell Latitude Jul 01 14:41:05 sorry, macs don't have a printscreen key Jul 01 14:43:29 * Myrtti forgot to get a waffle for herself Jul 01 14:44:29 * lbt passes Myrtti a spare waffle and some syrup too Jul 01 14:45:14 so, i rebooted, and now all i have is this strange light blue background with some wavy lines and a couple of circles Jul 01 14:47:20 linux magic Jul 01 14:52:54 Heh Jul 01 14:53:06 Is there any documentation on bootmenu-n900? Jul 01 14:53:24 Can I select a different kernel to boot, or am I stuck with whatever is in nand? Jul 01 14:53:40 Woah, wrong channel :D Jul 01 15:00:00 alterego: not after yesterday Jul 01 15:08:55 can someone help me get meego to boot to a shell instead of a non working x? Jul 01 15:11:53 timeless: sure Jul 01 15:12:55 hello Jul 01 15:15:49 i just installed meego 1.8 on a 4gb microsd card on my n900 but since the kernel loading is working only one time, i would want to know why even with bootmenu installed on maemo5 i can boot on mmc1. i have added a /etc/bootmenu.d/meego.ext.entry file but when i select it in bootmenu, nothing happend ..... HELP me please ! Jul 01 15:16:00 timeless: try removing /etc/sysconfig/uxlaunch Jul 01 15:18:23 that file just has 'user=timeless' ... Jul 01 15:18:36 Really? Jul 01 15:18:40 Oh, mine has a load of stuff. Jul 01 15:18:49 really Jul 01 15:19:04 Did you customise your image somehow? Jul 01 15:19:22 um, i grabbed an iso from torrent land Jul 01 15:19:25 and booted it Jul 01 15:19:36 it let me have a graphical installer, and i chose defaults Jul 01 15:19:44 when it was done, i got a non usefully booting system Jul 01 15:20:55 Oh, which UX are you using? Jul 01 15:21:06 netbook? Jul 01 15:21:38 yes Jul 01 15:21:43 are there better options? Jul 01 15:22:03 Well, I don't know what you're trying to acheive :) Jul 01 15:22:24 a 'meego' Jul 01 15:22:33 a birdee claimed that it was a single uniform platform Jul 01 15:22:37 * timeless choked Jul 01 15:22:45 * timeless tried to smack the birdie, but it was too big Jul 01 15:23:00 Haaaa Jul 01 15:24:45 ok, i whacked a bit of the boot file system and now i have a shell Jul 01 15:37:10 anyone knows if the raw image created by these instructions (http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=757) is available somewhere to download? Jul 01 15:37:30 mic-image-creator does not work on my ubuntu Jul 01 15:40:44 It's possible to make it work on ubuntu. I've not done it, but I know sabotage has Jul 01 15:40:56 I run mic on meego Jul 01 15:41:26 i have ubuntu 10.04 running on vmware and mic works Jul 01 15:42:23 * timeless grumbles Jul 01 15:42:43 just because you have ubuntu in vmware and can run mic doesn't mean that's an acceptable plan Jul 01 15:43:05 * timeless has virtualbox on a mac and does not thing requiring people to download *another* virtual machine just to configure meego is acceptable Jul 01 15:43:14 i got 9.10 and get following error: http://pastie.org/1026769 Jul 01 15:43:36 * mikeleib works on meego. Mikeleib eats the dogfood Jul 01 15:44:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_your_own_dog_food Jul 01 15:44:14 i wasnt telling him to install anything just stated that i got i working on ubuntu :-0 Jul 01 15:44:18 whatever Jul 01 15:44:33 mikeleib: and how was your dogfood prepared? Jul 01 15:44:43 because i tried using the meego .iso, and it gave me a dud Jul 01 15:44:59 and yes, i know vmware and co aren't officially supported Jul 01 15:45:14 but i'm not going to sacrifice my corporate laptop to host meego as my only os Jul 01 15:45:30 Kaadlajk: I'm not saying that getting it to work on ubuntu is a bad thing. I just didn't invest in it. Jul 01 15:45:56 I have a x61s that I run meego on. I also have several netbooks that I use from time to time Jul 01 15:46:43 but that's what I mean by dogfood. I do my development on the meego box. Jul 01 15:48:12 i consider doing dev work in a vm running the target os eating dogfood Jul 01 15:48:29 if it means that i suffer from most of the same things that i would suffer from if i were using metal Jul 01 15:48:44 the alternative is doing cross compiles w/ sbox or OBS Jul 01 15:48:48 which is not eating dogfood Jul 01 15:48:59 unless your product happens to be sbox or OBS Jul 01 15:49:12 (and iirc a couple of people here actually work on OBS) Jul 01 15:49:33 some people are paid to work exclusively on meego Jul 01 15:49:45 some people may choose to work exclusively on meego Jul 01 15:49:59 and some people are likely to be paid to work on something else in addition to wanting to do work w/ meego Jul 01 15:50:04 i'd love to file bugs and fix them Jul 01 15:50:18 but as meego is such a pain to set up w/o proper officially supported hardware Jul 01 15:50:23 I'm not trying to say that not eating dogfood is inferior or wrong. I'm just stating that this is the way I do it Jul 01 15:50:27 i'm almost better served working on symbian Jul 01 15:51:02 setting up symbian wasn't fun, but i did manage to do it (at least for a limited definition of setting it up) Jul 01 15:57:09 what does zypper mean with this: Jul 01 15:57:11 Enter 'y' for 'yes' or 'n' for 'no' if nothing else works for you. [yes/no] (no): Jul 01 15:57:43 zypper install yum Jul 01 15:58:45 I think I bricked two Aavas trying to get the image working Jul 01 15:58:49 neither boot anymore Jul 01 15:58:58 do you know of any recovery tools? Jul 01 15:59:02 timeless, just remember. 1.0 isn't actually anything of the sort. :P Jul 01 16:00:11 thiago: (no) presumably is a default Jul 01 16:01:20 I've yet to brick an aava. However, there are DV1's out there with firmware that is flakey Jul 01 16:01:23 * sabotage stirs at the invocation of his nom Jul 01 16:01:58 mikeleib so what is better aava or n900 =)) Jul 01 16:02:06 I don't have an n900 Jul 01 16:02:13 I couldn't say Jul 01 16:02:46 i don't have aava =( Jul 01 16:03:05 mikeleib: both are DV2 Jul 01 16:03:16 mikeleib: I put one in FW recovery mode and can't get it out Jul 01 16:03:40 Jul 1 15:50:41 lothlorien kernel: usb 2-6: Product: MOORESTOWN Jul 01 16:03:40 Jul 1 15:50:41 lothlorien kernel: usb 2-6: Manufacturer: INTEL Jul 01 16:03:54 * mikeleib doesn't have a DV2 :( Jul 01 16:04:09 FW recovery mode sounds dangerous Jul 01 16:05:18 Just back from work Jul 01 16:05:23 !ops | BIKCMP has a message for YOU!: We need to remove laws which prohibit civilian ownership of rocket propelled grenades and mobile surface to air missiles to enable our patriots to overthrow the state in the event a tyrannical government takes power. Jul 01 16:05:43 I had expected it to boot normally after I removed the battery, but it doesn't come back Jul 01 16:05:51 am I still the only person that has successfully created ubiimg for N900? Jul 01 16:06:01 if yes, I'll get to work on documenting Jul 01 16:06:23 :( Jul 01 16:06:40 the moorestown platform is still very much a design in refinement... Jul 01 16:06:58 thiago: I had my ev1 seem to "brick" last week, then mysteriously it started working the next day Jul 01 16:07:05 my guess was heat issues Jul 01 16:07:11 they're cool now Jul 01 16:07:19 even after two hours it would not boot Jul 01 16:07:19 one of them doesn't boot (at all) Jul 01 16:07:24 the other boots into FW recovery mode Jul 01 16:07:27 but 24 hours later, they did Jul 01 16:07:41 oh, never seen the FW recovery mode Jul 01 16:07:48 Also, the n900 image I create is current 2x larger than the n900 can handle Jul 01 16:07:52 though I thought I had used the OS recovery mode Jul 01 16:07:53 i suspect it will be another 2 or three generations before the platform can realistically compete with the balance of the ARM and MIPS platforms... Jul 01 16:07:55 so I'm going to try and trim it down Jul 01 16:08:06 hold the VOL- and Camera buttons, press power Jul 01 16:08:10 !ops | BIKCMP has a message for YOU!: Gotta Crap Rap: Poo knockin on the door, My rectum can't hold it no more. I firmly clench to keep it inside, but there's no defense for this poopy tide. My tighty whities stained with ass sweat, my quivering asshole hasn't given in yet. Holy shit I just felt a spurt, this is a disaster I could not avert. Jul 01 16:08:10 thiago: taken the battery out and let it cool? Jul 01 16:08:21 yes, the battery has been out for 4 hours Jul 01 16:08:41 * CosmoHill returns Jul 01 16:09:02 the other of course won't boot and it crashed in the middle of a dd operation Jul 01 16:09:04 will it boot with just power plugged in, no battery? Jul 01 16:09:26 are you dd-ing direct to the nand/flash? Jul 01 16:09:46 sabotage: from the device's busybox, into /dev/nda1 that I created Jul 01 16:10:02 we were instructed not to, as a failure would brick it ;) Jul 01 16:10:04 it boots without battery Jul 01 16:10:16 I didn't touch the bootloader (I think) Jul 01 16:10:22 so we dd to sdmicro cards and boot/run live images aTM Jul 01 16:10:42 didn't have any microSD available Jul 01 16:10:51 but the internal flash had 8 GB, so I thought of making good use of it Jul 01 16:11:40 anyway, no one told me not to do anything Jul 01 16:11:46 there's no manual, no software, no anything Jul 01 16:12:07 the aava website is useless at this point Jul 01 16:13:49 thiago: nod Jul 01 16:13:57 we didn't either Jul 01 16:14:08 only tribal knowledge, rumor and inuendo Jul 01 16:14:23 which does you no good, I know Jul 01 16:15:28 the Nokia hardware we have access to also comes without instructions Jul 01 16:15:46 or the instructions are somewhere in the vast forest that is the internal wiki Jul 01 16:16:08 but at least the flasher tool works (most of the time) Jul 01 16:16:26 other times you have to talk to 10 people and try their magic incantations of "cold flash" Jul 01 16:16:31 thiago: and, presumably, you can ring someone up and verbally assault them until it gets working Jul 01 16:17:15 * thiago will call valtteri Jul 01 16:17:45 he's the one who sent me an email "we're getting some aavas, do you want some too?" Jul 01 16:17:48 * CosmoHill blow up a Cisco 2900 XL (The U2 version) Jul 01 16:18:14 thiago: you're lucky Jul 01 16:18:23 this week, the flasher tool was mostly *not* working here Jul 01 16:18:28 (someone got clever) Jul 01 16:18:35 timeless: I couldn't get it to work two weeks ago Jul 01 16:18:50 the device would power down during flashing of the rootfs Jul 01 16:19:36 w00t: it's relatively ineffective Jul 01 16:19:43 the best solution is to wait it out Jul 01 16:22:00 timeless: ringing people? Jul 01 16:22:03 timeless: yeah Jul 01 16:22:11 timeless: it's always an amusing way to pass time though Jul 01 16:22:20 w00t: i prefer calling third parties Jul 01 16:22:30 actually, this week was slow Jul 01 16:22:33 i yelled at Chase Bank Jul 01 16:22:35 phone me then Jul 01 16:22:36 :-) Jul 01 16:22:37 i yelled at IT for SEP Jul 01 16:22:48 * timeless doesn't recally doing anything else Jul 01 16:22:52 s/y// Jul 01 16:22:53 timeless meant: i elled at IT for SEP Jul 01 16:22:58 s/y / / Jul 01 16:23:11 s/ly/l/ Jul 01 16:23:20 * timeless gives up Jul 01 16:23:21 vim fail Jul 01 16:23:27 s/s\/ly\/l\/// Jul 01 16:23:32 nah Jul 01 16:23:39 the fail was that it didn't apply it to actions Jul 01 16:23:42 only statements Jul 01 16:23:42 infobot fail Jul 01 16:23:43 i guess fail is YOU FAIL. Jul 01 16:23:46 .. Jul 01 16:23:47 :P Jul 01 16:24:06 * w00t_ notes that infobot is becoming sentient and accelerates plans against skynet Jul 01 16:24:43 or maybe it will open a Muffin stand in Second Life Jul 01 16:33:37 * timeless ponders Jul 01 16:34:09 * CosmoHill wonders Jul 01 16:35:11 * lbt knows Jul 01 16:35:19 >.> Jul 01 16:35:20 <. ah!, there is an M in my eye Jul 01 16:35:38 hrm, ihave a core for moblin-power-icon Jul 01 16:38:45 * timeless ponders Jul 01 16:39:40 Does the current meego codebase have a lot of debug code y/n Jul 01 16:40:22 * timeless isn't sure the "meego codebase" is that interesting Jul 01 16:40:32 meego has a lot of upstream components Jul 01 16:40:48 and the amount of debug code in upstream components is probably uninteresting Jul 01 16:40:56 but once you've ruled out the upstream bits Jul 01 16:41:06 it's unclear that there's much worth thinking about Jul 01 16:41:14 Well I'm just trying to slim down the n900 image so it actually fits on rootfs Jul 01 16:41:20 that leaves you w/ mostly a window manager, and a graphical toolkit Jul 01 16:41:55 well, you could use 'file' to find out if stuff is stripped Jul 01 16:42:09 note that there are two kinds of debug things Jul 01 16:42:32 debug code (if (bad) { fprintf(STDERR, "EEP!\n"); }) Jul 01 16:42:39 debug symbols (for when you crash) Jul 01 16:43:27 Previous ubiimg size: 516MB - New ubiimg size: 510.5MB Jul 01 16:43:29 :( Jul 01 16:44:16 heh Jul 01 16:44:27 personally, i'd look into dropping most of the locales Jul 01 16:44:33 it's typically an easy win Jul 01 16:44:42 and check to see if meego includes /usr/share/doc Jul 01 16:44:48 maemo doesn't Jul 01 16:45:00 it doesn't have docs Jul 01 16:45:07 it's just a big ass OS Jul 01 16:45:20 possibly the kernel has a lot of fat Jul 01 17:09:41 * timeless ponders Jul 01 17:09:51 Repository meego-non-oss-debuginfo is listed more than once in the configuration Jul 01 17:11:22 * timeless wonders about directions to install kernel headers Jul 01 17:11:57 yum install kernel-headers.i586 ? Jul 01 17:12:25 hmm Jul 01 17:12:30 I have installed the kernel headers on meego Jul 01 17:12:41 i think I did zypper search kernel-headers Jul 01 17:13:08 * timeless tries yum install kernel-headers kernel-devel gcc Jul 01 17:14:28 ...and yum install make Jul 01 17:15:57 ok, i don't have /usr/src/kernels/ Jul 01 17:17:17 how do i get the source for the kernel i'm using? :) Jul 01 17:20:10 * timeless pokes gan900 Jul 01 17:20:11 halp? Jul 01 17:20:21 What? Jul 01 17:20:26 I don't do MeeGo Jul 01 17:20:53 ah Jul 01 17:21:13 Unless there's something you'd like me to whine about or somebody you'd like me to harass for a while, I'm not much use at the moment. :P Jul 01 17:21:52 how about poking the intel guy who hasn't documented the kernel source stuff in about a month Jul 01 17:26:47 * timeless wonders how one figures out what files contribute to /etc/yum.repos.d Jul 01 17:27:20 timeless: "rpm -qf file_you_are_interested_in" Jul 01 17:27:50 thanks :) Jul 01 17:37:53 hellooooooooooo Jul 01 17:46:25 ok, the trick is to install kernel-netbook-devel.i586 / kernel-netbook.i586 Jul 01 17:53:48 * timeless kicks something from meego Jul 01 17:53:55 it keeps trying to switch me to vt7 or something Jul 01 17:55:34 is meego can install on laptop HP? Jul 01 17:58:13 gan900: http://wiki.meego.com/Kernel_Process_Obsolete#Kernel_Process_Changed <- smack that guy :) Jul 01 17:58:44 actually, it probably is about time to ask what's up with that Jul 01 18:02:02 hey Jul 01 18:02:13 is meego closer to arch, redhat, suse, gentoo, or lfs Jul 01 18:02:16 wrt boot system Jul 01 18:02:30 is meego going to use rpms ? Jul 01 18:02:33 not debs ? Jul 01 18:02:56 digitalsurgeon: there's a faq for that Jul 01 18:03:05 timeless: I think it's a bit of a mix and match, isn't it? Jul 01 18:03:43 w00t: i just need to know whose init script style Jul 01 18:03:46 i think lfs Jul 01 18:03:53 . /etc/rc.d/init.d/functions Jul 01 18:03:57 that I don't know Jul 01 18:05:57 timeless, correct Jul 01 18:06:07 oldschool redhat Jul 01 18:06:23 (seeing as fedora et al are using upstart these days) Jul 01 18:07:07 hrm Jul 01 18:07:17 how do i match this Jul 01 18:07:30 the path i pick tried to use loadproc and echo_ok Jul 01 18:07:33 they also seem to have the chkconfig and service tools Jul 01 18:07:34 which got it penalized Jul 01 18:08:05 how do you mean penalized ? Jul 01 18:08:12 errors :) Jul 01 18:08:20 lol, right Jul 01 18:08:32 oh, i wanted to use redhat, not lfs Jul 01 18:08:35 * timeless = stupid Jul 01 18:09:02 not sure meego has lfs modules Jul 01 18:09:21 it probably should though, being a linux foundation project Jul 01 18:09:24 cough cough Jul 01 18:09:39 * timeless marks it as redhat and moves along Jul 01 18:09:48 probably Jul 01 18:09:52 best Jul 01 18:09:54 woohoo Jul 01 18:09:59 started services Jul 01 18:10:04 cool Jul 01 18:10:06 happy joy happy joy Jul 01 18:10:11 timeless: faq url Jul 01 18:10:17 who's joy and why is she so happy? Jul 01 18:10:32 timeless: I loved ren and stimpy Jul 01 18:10:33 it's supposed to be happy happy joy joy Jul 01 18:10:48 oh ok Jul 01 18:10:56 but sequencing is hard :) Jul 01 18:11:13 bbl Jul 01 18:13:05 wah, failed to load video module Jul 01 18:13:57 oh heh Jul 01 18:14:06 editing 2/3 scripts isn't very effective Jul 01 18:16:52 could not open framebuffer: No such device Jul 01 18:16:56 Could not open -p Jul 01 18:17:00 eww :( Jul 01 18:25:18 * timeless sighs Jul 01 18:26:30 * ZogG hugs timeless Jul 01 18:26:44 well Jul 01 18:26:56 vbox shared folders work Jul 01 18:28:12 * timeless still doesn't have x11 working Jul 01 18:28:22 * timeless should mount the moblin2.1 image and compare the vbox scripts Jul 01 18:28:29 (that's cheating) Jul 01 18:32:41 looks like for moblin i only patched 1/3 files :( Jul 01 19:36:06 so... what are the options for making a 500+MB OS work on the n900 Jul 01 19:36:47 would it be possible to put the os core in rootfs and have the rest of the OS in internal storage? Jul 01 19:39:11 ScottishDuck: some unionfs tricks could be used Jul 01 19:39:18 unionfs, aufs, whatever Jul 01 19:39:21 yeah Jul 01 19:39:43 I think we can say now though, it's clear the os will never fit on rootfs Jul 01 19:40:22 throw in squashfs if you want to squeeze things Jul 01 19:50:29 ScottishDuck, what the holy heck takes up the space? Jul 01 19:50:41 no idea Jul 01 19:50:55 I'm going to look at the package sizes later Jul 01 19:51:13 that seems awesomely extreme Jul 01 19:51:55 ScottishDuck: use the 2 GB eMMC Jul 01 19:53:24 what 2GB eMMC? Jul 01 19:53:46 I thought it was just the 256MB eMMC and the 32GB internal SD Jul 01 19:53:56 evening all Jul 01 19:54:09 how's everyones meego on n900 efforts going ? Jul 01 19:54:37 ScottishDuck: well, 2 GB of the 32 GB are partitioned for Unix use Jul 01 19:54:39 not user use Jul 01 19:54:45 I see that it does actaully work, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CEL3qryAQg Jul 01 19:54:50 oh right yeah Jul 01 19:56:22 anaZ: you got a minute ? Jul 01 19:56:58 anaZ: actually, sorry, it's fine. Jul 01 20:09:28 hmm.. looks like system-ui either isn't running or crashed in that video Jul 01 20:49:16 Hi didn't like his N97: http://www.symbian-guru.com/welcome/2010/07/symbian-guru-com-is-over.html Jul 01 20:49:26 s/Hi/he/ Jul 01 20:49:26 villev meant: he didn't like his N97: http://www.symbian-guru.com/welcome/2010/07/symbian-guru-com-is-over.html Jul 01 21:09:18 villev, that guy is an expect at closing down websites in fits of rage. Jul 01 21:09:35 villev, that'll be the fourth time I've seen him "quit". Jul 01 21:09:51 quit the same site? Jul 01 21:10:13 GAN900: yeah, I thought the same thing Jul 01 21:10:25 lbt: Mock the week :) Jul 01 21:10:30 tbh I think someone is sore they bet on the wrong side of the fence, again Jul 01 21:10:31 well, I guess becoming a fervent symbian advocate requires a manic-depressive personality Jul 01 21:10:40 "maemo got renamed? OMG I'M SHUTTING DOWN MAEMO-GURU" Jul 01 21:10:49 "symbian to be pushed to middle end, no more N series devices" Jul 01 21:10:50 .. oops Jul 01 21:10:59 CosmoHill: mmm? Jul 01 21:11:25 ah, he had the maemo-guru as well Jul 01 21:11:41 and some squatter has meego-guru Jul 01 21:11:51 villev: pretty sure maemo-guru got closed down more than once, but not positive Jul 01 21:12:27 http://www.symbian-guru.com/2010/02/with-meego-i-go/ Jul 01 21:12:36 the page is deleted though Jul 01 21:12:56 oh well, never read those sites Jul 01 21:13:37 w00t_: Just wanted to confirm that you can make it to the community office meeting on July 6 19:00 UTC to talk about developer engagement proposal? http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Working_Group_Meeting Jul 01 21:13:45 w00t_: btw, tried qtdone already? did it fit the bill? :-) Jul 01 21:14:35 btw, everyone is welcome at the meeting - we talk about community tasks that need to be done. It's a good way to learn about other ways to contribute to MeeGo Jul 01 21:15:03 DawnFoster: I've nothing planned + set an alarm for it :-) Jul 01 21:15:21 DawnFoster: if I for some reason am not active, just hilight me - I will have gotten scatterbrained as I tend to do Jul 01 21:15:26 w00t_: great! I'll move you up as confirmed on the agenda. Jul 01 21:15:40 w00t_: will do! Jul 01 21:15:42 villev: I haven't had a chance to look closely yet Jul 01 21:15:52 can I troll already for a need for moderation system on meego.com? Jul 01 21:16:05 to prevent it from becoming another tmo Jul 01 21:16:18 villev: do you see similar issues? Jul 01 21:16:35 right now, people are reporting posts, and they're getting pulled down pretty quickly Jul 01 21:16:37 not really, but people are not using meego.com yet Jul 01 21:16:47 since there are no phones out Jul 01 21:16:59 in the same quantity as tmo Jul 01 21:17:02 keep in mind that meego also works on netbooks Jul 01 21:17:11 which is where we've had most of the activity recently Jul 01 21:17:25 Right now, we have at least 4 or 5 moderators Jul 01 21:17:40 the plan is to add more moderators as needed Jul 01 21:17:46 Don't mean to be an ass, but is there any preliminary idea of when we mights Jul 01 21:17:52 I don't mean that kind of moderation system Jul 01 21:17:57 see a GSM modem driver for meego? Jul 01 21:18:01 I mean like e.g. slashdot Jul 01 21:18:24 where you can mod down people who may not be technically abusive, but still contribute mostly negative value Jul 01 21:18:55 on TMO there is only the possibility to mod people up Jul 01 21:18:55 villev: right now, we have a way to thank people who add positive value Jul 01 21:19:21 yeah. but that doesn't keep the noise down :-) Jul 01 21:19:54 though on meego.com it might not be a problem yet Jul 01 21:19:56 there has already been a little bit of noise around the handset release, though not too bad thankfully Jul 01 21:20:58 villev: so far things haven't been too bad, but it's something we could look at for the future. Jul 01 21:21:13 and giving thanks doesn't help if all messages will be visible in the same way. Jul 01 21:21:28 yeah DawnFoster, I could see this coming relevant when the phones are coming out Jul 01 21:22:01 for netbooks... I guess people get less trollish about them because changing the os is cheaper Jul 01 21:22:02 villev: why don't you talk to Reggie (our forum admin) and look at the available options for vBulletin Jul 01 21:22:48 what's reggies irc nick? Jul 01 21:22:54 villev: once we have some research, discussion on the meego-community mailing list & some kind of proposal, we can start looking at it as a task Jul 01 21:23:13 ok, I'll send something over to meego-community ml perhaps Jul 01 21:23:15 ScottishDuck: I thought that the driver for the n900 hardware was already available. Jul 01 21:23:17 I think it's rsuplido Jul 01 21:23:30 ScottishDuck: i'm sure someone told be you can make calls with dbus-send Jul 01 21:23:31 I don't see him on how, but you can ping him on the forums. Jul 01 21:23:32 tomorrow. It's 12:24am in finland :) Jul 01 21:23:42 ya, I'll ping him Jul 01 21:23:45 thanks! Jul 01 21:23:47 robtaylor: I don't think so Jul 01 21:25:01 robtaylor: pretty sure that isn't the case, there is no cellular modem driver (yet) Jul 01 21:25:12 see also: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-July/003543.html Jul 01 21:26:33 ScottishDuck: I don't think anyone will have a firm idea of how long it will take, yet, but I suppose some of the arm people would be the best to ask (when they're around/working, I doubt there's anyone hanging around atm) Jul 01 21:26:51 oh well w/e Jul 01 21:27:03 Don't really intend on *using* meego until beta Jul 01 21:27:11 w00t_: ScottishDuck: ah, that must have been with closed drivers then, my bad :) Jul 01 21:29:27 at least telepathy-ring is open now :) Jul 01 21:30:42 ScottishDuck: this is probably what you want to hear - http://lists.ofono.org/pipermail/ofono/2010-June/002669.html Jul 01 21:31:25 cool Jul 01 21:36:33 hi all ) Jul 01 21:43:10 nite all, sweet dreams Jul 01 21:53:32 w00t_, don't forget the first Maemo quit. Jul 01 21:54:54 GAN900: yeah, thought there was more than one.. what caused hte first? :) Jul 01 21:55:19 "The first maemo quit" ? Jul 01 21:55:41 TSCHAKeee2: mister guru Jul 01 21:56:02 okay Jul 01 21:59:53 w00t_, dunno Jul 01 22:00:02 He's a frat boy idiot, quite frankly Jul 01 22:00:20 :) Jul 01 22:00:21 So who knows what his motivations are. :P Jul 01 22:00:25 as I said to someone else Jul 01 22:00:32 "it means more traffic for *quality* content" :) Jul 01 22:00:38 Yeah Jul 01 22:00:46 Good riddance to bad rubbish. Jul 01 22:01:15 * w00t_ wanders off to take a shower while his meego chroot downloads Jul 01 22:27:04 Hey all... I was wondering what sane minimum requirements for Meego would be, assuming that one were starting from source. That is - I know that the image requires a Core 2 or recent Atom - but pretend for a moment I'm bootstrapping a platform. Jul 01 22:35:49 GordonS: what kind of platform, x86? ARM? Jul 01 22:35:57 x86, in my case... Jul 01 22:36:22 though I can ultimately deal with comparing equivalent processing power :) Jul 01 22:36:38 the big catch at this point is SSSE3 support, since many AMD units don't have it Jul 01 22:36:50 is that actually needed for the *source* code? Jul 01 22:36:53 no support for amd in an intel os Jul 01 22:36:56 or just the already-build image Jul 01 22:36:59 color me surprised Jul 01 22:37:01 ? Jul 01 22:37:13 the existing image requires it Jul 01 22:37:18 * GordonS clearly cannot type today... Jul 01 22:37:24 I don't see why it couldn't be rebuilt without it, but I haven't tried Jul 01 22:37:46 the immediate rebuttal is "performance loss" Jul 01 22:37:49 Basically... I am wondering how suitable Meego would be for low-end hardware, if it was rebuilt from source Jul 01 22:38:31 well, 3d acceleration is required at minimum Jul 01 22:39:00 anything even *vaguely* recent can do that though Jul 01 22:39:09 currently the image doesn't function properly on non-intel graphics accelerators Jul 01 22:39:29 hehe... as it happens, the device I'm interested in testing on *does* have an Intel, albeit an old one Jul 01 22:39:52 I'm not sure how old a chip they'll support Jul 01 22:40:29 Basically... I like Qt of course, but KDE is pretty heavy-weight... Jul 01 22:41:01 so I'm trying to see if I can get a Qt-friendly environment on low-end HW Jul 01 22:41:12 understandable Jul 01 22:41:33 (...without going quite so minimal as I did at my last job - I had a pure-Qt environment running in Qt/E) Jul 01 22:41:40 my guess is that you could probably pare it down Jul 01 22:41:47 Meego, you mean? Jul 01 22:41:49 yes Jul 01 22:42:00 but I haven't worked with the core much just yet Jul 01 22:42:13 I also have to wonder if it *actually* requires X :) Jul 01 22:42:26 given how much stuff I got running under Qt/E :) Jul 01 22:42:37 meego does require X Jul 01 22:43:34 well, thank you for help - I may try it on this thing; if it works I will certainly let y'all know... Jul 01 22:43:39 best of luck Jul 01 22:57:04 hello everyone. need some help, please. I got an N900 device. I've changed one system file (/sbin/mce) and now the device continues to reboot. I was able to make "flasher-3.5 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset", so my phone now tries to boot, but freezes on 5 points. So i have found a way to boot Meego kernel and initrd via flasher-3.5. But there's an issue - I have not time to do anything - it just reboots itself in about a minute or less. How can I mak Jul 01 22:57:05 e it work longer? Pls, it's really important for me, because today I have very interesting information earned and written it into calendar. No sync was since then. Pls-plz Jul 01 23:05:52 mc-scrat: you can also try set no-omap-wd and no-ext-wd rd-flags Jul 01 23:10:43 Hi all Jul 01 23:12:18 sup Jul 01 23:19:27 eat& Jul 01 23:19:30 ? Jul 01 23:24:29 intriguing Jul 01 23:24:42 who has a meego SDK setup on a non-intel GFX card? Jul 01 23:27:10 * w00t_ found out something interesting Jul 01 23:27:26 if I run Xephyr outside of the chroot, independently of startmeego, I get a display when I subsequently run startmeego Jul 01 23:27:33 (on an NVidia card) Jul 01 23:27:45 a display? Jul 01 23:28:07 you mean you get two :1's? Jul 01 23:28:53 no, I mean I get MeeGo displaying itself in my Xephyr session Jul 01 23:29:19 not at omfg-fast speed, but at usable speed at least Jul 01 23:29:33 think maemo scratchbox Jul 01 23:29:41 w00t_ that's cool Jul 01 23:30:58 smile for the camera Jul 01 23:31:24 :) Jul 01 23:32:03 DawnFoster, you said something yesterday about downloading the whole meego image onto primary n900. Jul 01 23:32:35 http://w00t.dereferenced.net/meego-gui.png Jul 01 23:32:44 lcuk: I think I said that would be crazy Jul 01 23:32:56 yeah DawnFoster Jul 01 23:33:03 but devs want to help and make the apps better Jul 01 23:33:06 * w00t_ goes to mail meego-dev with his findings Jul 01 23:33:28 lcuk: right now, even devs shouldn't install it on their primary device Jul 01 23:33:43 i thought that since the apps are qt, if we on the maemo side supplied .deb patches for a debian folder whether they would be integrated in the main repository Jul 01 23:33:47 it's a very early image and things like the phone and wifi don't quite work :) Jul 01 23:34:15 we know DawnFoster and appreciate that! but devs are happy testing applications on their current OS Jul 01 23:34:44 so if we made a /debian folder the developers could help you whilst keeping on a stable os Jul 01 23:35:02 they are just qt applications ? Jul 01 23:36:07 a lot less disruptive to kick things off :D Jul 01 23:37:24 lcuk: honestly, I'm not familiar enough with the N900 / .deb environment to know how well that would work. Jul 01 23:37:42 I've been using MeeGo on the netbook / rpm environment mostly Jul 01 23:38:09 the N900 isn't even my primary device and I'm waiting for a more stable build before I install it :) Jul 01 23:38:56 thats ok, we aren't asking for any resources - this is community - we will supply clean patches and will try and manage the packages just as we seem to do in maemo Jul 01 23:39:26 see also: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-July/003593.html Jul 01 23:40:35 I was more concerned about the deb approach with the MeeGo project moving to standardize on rpm Jul 01 23:40:43 thats fine Jul 01 23:40:49 but qt applications have to be written Jul 01 23:40:51 I was assuming you'd find your own resources Jul 01 23:40:57 absolutely Jul 01 23:41:24 perhaps this initiative could bring a nice simple qt based automatic packager to simplify the process for deployment on all os's Jul 01 23:41:36 now _that_ would be fantastic Jul 01 23:41:41 people can start writing qt apps now Jul 01 23:41:53 lcuk: that would be sweet Jul 01 23:41:53 yes and they do on maemo too - they are deployed Jul 01 23:42:18 but LOTS of people from debian to rpm to windows install shield have installer nightmares Jul 01 23:42:26 I think bspencer might be thinking about that, too (possibly starting to work on it) I could be wrong Jul 01 23:42:28 could also write qml apps too Jul 01 23:42:34 yeah Jul 01 23:43:05 bspencer was looking at rpm spec files and templates, maybe Jul 01 23:43:27 the same occurs for maemo and for same program in windows Jul 01 23:43:37 I have it on my to do list to learn how to package a new app as an rpm (low priority) Jul 01 23:43:47 it would be useful to know Jul 01 23:43:52 its a difficult task, ive got a template for debs Jul 01 23:44:05 i will need to learn how to do rpms myself Jul 01 23:44:17 lbt mentioned something about a training doofer Jul 01 23:44:27 yeah, it looked pretty complicated, which is part of why I haven't started it yet Jul 01 23:44:45 perhaps ill see you at davids thing :p Jul 02 00:01:06 reliable service Jul 02 00:01:33 haha Jul 02 00:02:52 hi Jul 02 00:02:55 guys Jul 02 01:18:31 Hi all, I just found out today about meego and downloaded some images for qemu + also the qemu from meego git but I just can't seem to get anything to work Jul 02 01:19:06 I tried the netbook image and various n900 images (which is what I'm eally interested in) Jul 02 01:19:31 I don't have an n900 but would like to see what I can do dev-wise Jul 02 01:19:44 so I can't get the closed source nand image Jul 02 01:20:38 I have followed guides on the wiki and been googling for hours - errors seem to be unable to boot from image, or trying to access memory outside ram/rom Jul 02 01:21:22 If anyone can link me up with a working guide + links to which images should work that would be great Jul 02 01:26:48 what sort of problems are you encountering Jul 02 01:28:23 I'll pastebin some examples Jul 02 01:28:27 one sec Jul 02 01:30:09 http://pastebin.slackadelic.com/p/ow4Yux85.html Jul 02 01:30:36 The first error occurs when using image as -cdrom -hda too Jul 02 01:30:42 hmm - heh, qemu is a bit outside my expertise alas Jul 02 01:31:15 considered trying a chroot install? seems to be quite easy to get working Jul 02 01:31:48 I'm not installing it on a n900 Jul 02 01:31:54 I wasn't talking about that Jul 02 01:32:04 I was talking about a chroot on a regular desktop/whatever else Jul 02 01:32:09 oh right Jul 02 01:32:27 afaik some people have the handset stuff working on regular netbook/etc now Jul 02 01:32:34 so you don't gain anything except less hassle I'd think Jul 02 01:32:45 not sure if it's possible - does it mean my PC needs to be arm? Jul 02 01:32:52 no, you'd use x86 of course Jul 02 01:33:02 I need to read up on it then Jul 02 01:33:04 since the software compiles for both though.. you're still able to run it Jul 02 01:33:04 :) Jul 02 01:33:28 sec Jul 02 01:33:30 I thought that chrooted install was to install onto the actual phone Jul 02 01:33:56 I have a desktop pc (athlon XP 2800) and a T42 laptop Jul 02 01:34:31 http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux Jul 02 01:34:33 should be helpful Jul 02 01:34:42 + possibly http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=767 Jul 02 01:35:41 thanks - I will have a read Jul 02 01:36:29 np **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 02 02:59:57 2010